Therapist here, brilliant breakdown Dave! Yes this is the way to handle intrusive thoughts. I had never made the connection to NE. Such a helpful and brilliant discovery you’ve made. Thank you Dave!
ENFP jumper here (as best as i can tell) YES this is exactly what i observed aswell. People especially demon Ne-heavy types seem to be out of touch with their chaotic, random and connecting side. Ne is very non-moral and just ventures into possibilitys, creative endavours and other interesting abstract worlds without linking the SELF to it too much. It is after all extroverted. I frequently have things converge, mix, fuse and result in a very chaotic but calm way.I can look at some blocks of wood and automatically imagine them growing teeth and sliding around on the grass while a family of treecreatures try to sit on them while drinking cool aid. While this sounds random forced/cringy and quirky it is literally how i percieve this function at times. It also can be streamlined into a more productive process through brainstorming and directional thought. In general it is like a little creative stream of nonsense which always runs in the background a bit which you can shift your focus on or just let it run like a river in the background. It also means that you can not the fuck stop soaking in new ideas and interesting things. But to posess this river and to fear it must be something very irritating or terrifying. I can imagine that people must look at it as some sort of psychosis or something loaded with morals whereas the Ne type just observes the strange patterns, connections and ideas and filters them in a healthy way through their decider functions. "Yes i see the possibility of ramming my head onto this metal spike to impale my eyeball so my body functions as an rotating clockwork part but this is not a good idea". Amusement and competency arises while controlling this thought process. For ne demon it has to be more like a source of danger and insecurity. Also it plays into the idea of "that what you are struggling with is what you define yourself as". If you ask someone with demon Ne about his creativity or thoughts he will probably respond in a manner which would indicate that he himself sees this "quirky weird" side of him as something which defines him because he has to process it all day. The ENFP/ENTP type in contrast just IS in this constant state of competency and reacts to the subjective experienced "quirky" of the other person in a eyebrowraising manner. After all the SI type does not REALLY wield their Ne as much as the Ne types but make it seem like such a big deal. This is atleast my experience with it. The typical "im so crazy" while 99% of the time beeing the most Si heavy person you have ever seen.
Ya but the polarity works both ways for all types. When I experience si as a ne dom it's always negative memories and seeing negative possibilities in memories or injuries etc to the point I can't trust it since it's usually way exaggerated than it actually is.
Absolutely ! Inferior/Demon Si is very shitty. Probably one of the worst things to have to be honest but hey thats just my bias speaking. @@SistoActivitatemAtm
@@muhsinashardow998 your comment made me come back to my comment and i have to say: Im sorry. Whatever type i am this rambling is pretty difficult to follow even for me who wrote it :D
I remember really looking into OCD a while back and immediately thinking all of it sounds like demon Ne. There's this one psychologist who explains that certain parts of the brain aren't properly communicating with each other which is creating all these weird fears/thoughts and you can actually see this through brain scans. To me, this was probably the moment of realization that this function stuff is all too real.
I have demon Ne and have thought I had OCD multiple times. The intrusive thoughts really arent natural feeling and makes me feel terrible, like I wont give you an example. I think my creative exploration is much more intentional Te processing and not as spontaneous if that makes sense
I have an INFP friend who I believe is savior Fi Si, he sometimes mention that he has intrusive thoughts and I think he tries to silence that part because the thoughts goes against his Fi moral and stance - and that's why he cant just be fucking chill about being a bit psycho like everyone else but has to feel bad about it and suppress it.
This is incredible. I know so many women this way who are all proper and well kept, and upstanding members of society, yet they say the weirdest sh*t at the oddest time. They are everywhere.
Fascinating. I think I’m an intp Ti/Si, so technically demon Ne, but I never seem to fear my intrusive thoughts. They’re almost like impersonal thought experiments, and they’re always tethered with “this isn’t actually going to happen” or “I would never actually do that.” I can’t imagine how scary it would be to feel like you had to control that but were fighting a losing battle. It’s like Rumi said, “Welcome the guests.”
Tethered is a great way to describe it. I have these thoughts often. In fact, I had seen many of these skits and gotten a good laugh. I've learned from meditation to see the thoughts as clouds, just things passing by.
Massive value drop in this video! Makes sense from the opposite perspective when ENxP ignore paperwork or rules. It explodes sometimes in fines or jail time
Underneath thoughts are feelings. Underneath strategies are hopes of illusory immunity from negative feelings. Drop the strategies and accept the negative feelings as being part of reality in this current world. Strategies will keep popping up, but ask them if they are reliable. They are not reliable. After all, permanent escape from negative feelings is unlikely. As soon as you accept that a feeling is inevitable, the energy that went into escape is now available so that the feeling no longer seems to be a problem.
do more on neurodevelopmental disorders and MBTI please! Super interesting and also a field of my personal study. Thanks for sharing your insight on this.
Highly relate. Usually happens in work meetings where I’ll briefly imagine myself saying the most offensive thing possible and then I’m afraid I’m somehow going to say it because I thought of it. When I was a kid, this was coupled with an extreme paranoia that everyone could secretly hear my thoughts 😅
Fascinating subject.. I've rarely, if ever, experienced this (FiSe FF here with masculine demon Ni).. and I'm pretty grateful. I didn't even know it was a real thing until I was like 30 years old - one of my co-workers was talking about it, explaining that EVERYONE has them, and he was listing a bunch of examples from his own life (like swerving in traffic and killing people, pushing his friends off the edge of a cliff when hiking).. a few other co-workers chimed in, laughing, telling their stories.. Honestly, I was horrified, the conversation slightly traumatized me. To this day, I struggle with the idea that everyone has them, but this video helps explain that.
I am Ni dom (probably feminine) and I have struggled off and on with sensor somatic OCD, so this makes a lot of sense to me. Because my fear is that the uncomfortable bodily sensations will be forever distracting from my internal thought life. Like the physical world is assaulting my mental (safe) space. or alternatively the "what if" thoughts are always centered and focused on some fact that I once learned that seemed scary to me.
I hate it when my demon masculine Ne clown jumps out. 0:30 Jokes aside, this video helped me confirm that I do have masculine Ne, which makes me wonder what feminine Si looks like, because I am very territorial about how I like my things to be organized, but maybe that's more connected to my Di? The way that I organize can be very fluid though depending on how well it works. I have had intrusive thoughts and it's true that the less hard you try the easier it gets to overcome them. As for the Ne savior state stuff of "You've never been in an empty room" I think "yeah, makes sense, who cares?"
Did you say Mountain Dew!? YOOOO... Have you seen that one documentary about those people who are hooked on Mountain Dew!?? They live on (or around?🤔) The Appalachian Trail. Did you know that I've always wanted to hike the Appalachian Trail? Well, that's not entirely True; really, I wanna do the Continental Divide Trail. Well, that's not entirely True, either. What I *really* wanna do, is the whole Triple Crown. Oh, wait. Did you say: 'Mountain *Dew,'* or: 'Mountain *View?'* lOl!! *'DEW THE VIEW!!!'"* *AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH* 😱🤯🤣
I wish my bad thoughts were just “crash the car lol”, mine are like “YOU ARE INCAPABLE OF LOVE” and “YOUR BOSS HATES YOU” and “YOU ARE A WORTHLESS FAILURE”
The thing is. I had these intrusive thoughts when i was 5 as an ENTP. Funnily enough, i was called 'the broken pilot' in kindergarten. Lol. So if you decide to act on these intrusive thoughts enough, and you start to learn the limits, like why not to do certain kinds of intrusive thoughts, you become Ne dom.
This makes sense. All of this is stuff that Ni deals with. Physical processes in actual, physical environment. I think Callmekris is NFJ. Her position toward it is "I am not gonna do it. Because that would be rude towards Si. But I want to". On the other hand, Si is afraid of it, because they have hard time dealing with it, if that would actually happen. Ne doms want to collect the answers to be safe, so they keep asking Ni people about it.
As an ISFJ I had to learn how to deal with my crazy demon NE. I know now when and with who I can allow myself to let it out lol. Not at work haha 😅😂 . Botteling that up is like an itch you can't scratch lol. Drives you crazy 😮
@@orangeziggy348 Just letting the thoughts come and go, as Dave said, be aware that it's ok to have them. I like to let that energy out with some random stupid dance or move lol. My partner is used to my sparks of craziness. Having a good laugh at/with these intrusive thoughts is a relieve
Isfj here and yeah wtf lol I never have any thoughts like the examples. My intrusive thoughts are usually just self sabotaging like when I played baseball and a thought would pop in like wow how is it even possible I can hit that little ball with this thin bat. Or how is it even possible I can throw a ball and it actually makes it to that guy over there. Fun, then my performance would suffer and start a big snowball.
Some advice I’ve heard to deal with nasty intrusive thoughts is to respond with an absurdly accepting thought no matter how gruesome the thought is. “Huh, what if I stabbed my grandma? Wow, that would be so awesome and funny. I’d be all like stab stab and she’d be like, ‘bleh, I’m dead.’” It can help deprive the brain of the “reward” of reacting strongly to the fear and gives the thought less power over time.
How do you think this phenomenon would present itself when Ne & Si are switched? So feminine Ne on top, and masculine demon Si last. I think of random outbursts of cleaning or purging, when you usually are messy. Any thoughts?
Wow I was not aware that the violent intrusive thoughts were unique to my type cluster. I just thought I was crazy. I guess that explains why all the saviour feminine Ne's in my life don't get it. Also the trend of all my type twins being unhinged women seems to hold true, which I think is pretty cool. More evidence that you guys got my type right, maybe one day you guys will find a male type twin for me - FF-Si/Te-BP/C(S)
What would it look like for an ENFP? For me it's the organisation freak. When it gets rejected, I start to feel I am such a failure for not being an organised person. Society helps it in tgat case, but it is so rooted in our psych, I even judge others on things I don't do myself. Gotta integrate that 4th function in order to be mentally stable
I knew it had to be an Ne correlated issue. I know two ESFJ's with this issue, even though its a middle function. Or maybe it just looks far nore dramatic to me who doesn't conscoously use Ne. I for sure have intrusive thoughts but I don't ever assign meaning to them.
lame morality play stuff but... one's the devil on your shoulder but the latter feels more like the purpose of koans-- in fact, most yogic practice are meant to disrupt normal patterns of thought so X Y or Z, so then asking a questionless question or posing a thought with no beginning or end is given the purpose of interrupting the endless train inside your mind.
I dont have crazy tought i have evil fantseys as an intp i picture myself as a powerfull gangster when i hear gangsta music but not as a small time gangster the type of gangster that takes over the world becuse he is the smartest
"You can't stop the birds from flying over your head, but you keep them from building a nest."
I'm happy to be one of the "normal people" for once
Therapist here, brilliant breakdown Dave! Yes this is the way to handle intrusive thoughts. I had never made the connection to NE. Such a helpful and brilliant discovery you’ve made. Thank you Dave!
ENFP jumper here (as best as i can tell)
YES this is exactly what i observed aswell. People especially demon Ne-heavy types seem to be out of touch with their chaotic, random and connecting side. Ne is very non-moral and just ventures into possibilitys, creative endavours and other interesting abstract worlds without linking the SELF to it too much. It is after all extroverted. I frequently have things converge, mix, fuse and result in a very chaotic but calm way.I can look at some blocks of wood and automatically imagine them growing teeth and sliding around on the grass while a family of treecreatures try to sit on them while drinking cool aid. While this sounds random forced/cringy and quirky it is literally how i percieve this function at times. It also can be streamlined into a more productive process through brainstorming and directional thought. In general it is like a little creative stream of nonsense which always runs in the background a bit which you can shift your focus on or just let it run like a river in the background. It also means that you can not the fuck stop soaking in new ideas and interesting things.
But to posess this river and to fear it must be something very irritating or terrifying. I can imagine that people must look at it as some sort of psychosis or something loaded with morals whereas the Ne type just observes the strange patterns, connections and ideas and filters them in a healthy way through their decider functions. "Yes i see the possibility of ramming my head onto this metal spike to impale my eyeball so my body functions as an rotating clockwork part but this is not a good idea". Amusement and competency arises while controlling this thought process. For ne demon it has to be more like a source of danger and insecurity.
Also it plays into the idea of "that what you are struggling with is what you define yourself as". If you ask someone with demon Ne about his creativity or thoughts he will probably respond in a manner which would indicate that he himself sees this "quirky weird" side of him as something which defines him because he has to process it all day. The ENFP/ENTP type in contrast just IS in this constant state of competency and reacts to the subjective experienced "quirky" of the other person in a eyebrowraising manner. After all the SI type does not REALLY wield their Ne as much as the Ne types but make it seem like such a big deal. This is atleast my experience with it. The typical "im so crazy" while 99% of the time beeing the most Si heavy person you have ever seen.
Ya but the polarity works both ways for all types. When I experience si as a ne dom it's always negative memories and seeing negative possibilities in memories or injuries etc to the point I can't trust it since it's usually way exaggerated than it actually is.
Absolutely ! Inferior/Demon Si is very shitty. Probably one of the worst things to have to be honest but hey thats just my bias speaking. @@SistoActivitatemAtm
That was a very interesting way to explain it. 👍
@@muhsinashardow998 your comment made me come back to my comment and i have to say: Im sorry. Whatever type i am this rambling is pretty difficult to follow even for me who wrote it :D
@@flux1940 it was easily understood by me tho 😁
I’m Ti/Si and I called my inner esfj jumper Stephany when I had this feeling of joy and wild energy.
I remember really looking into OCD a while back and immediately thinking all of it sounds like demon Ne. There's this one psychologist who explains that certain parts of the brain aren't properly communicating with each other which is creating all these weird fears/thoughts and you can actually see this through brain scans. To me, this was probably the moment of realization that this function stuff is all too real.
I have demon Ne and have thought I had OCD multiple times. The intrusive thoughts really arent natural feeling and makes me feel terrible, like I wont give you an example. I think my creative exploration is much more intentional Te processing and not as spontaneous if that makes sense
Educational videos like this one showcases your greatest strengths, and are definitely your forte. Great content, Dave!
I have an INFP friend who I believe is savior Fi Si, he sometimes mention that he has intrusive thoughts and I think he tries to silence that part because the thoughts goes against his Fi moral and stance - and that's why he cant just be fucking chill about being a bit psycho like everyone else but has to feel bad about it and suppress it.
INFP here and it's definitely how it is for me as well.
This is incredible. I know so many women this way who are all proper and well kept, and upstanding members of society, yet they say the weirdest sh*t at the oddest time. They are everywhere.
My wife is one of them
Fascinating. I think I’m an intp Ti/Si, so technically demon Ne, but I never seem to fear my intrusive thoughts. They’re almost like impersonal thought experiments, and they’re always tethered with “this isn’t actually going to happen” or “I would never actually do that.” I can’t imagine how scary it would be to feel like you had to control that but were fighting a losing battle. It’s like Rumi said, “Welcome the guests.”
*usually never fear them. Definitely had moments
Tethered is a great way to describe it. I have these thoughts often. In fact, I had seen many of these skits and gotten a good laugh. I've learned from meditation to see the thoughts as clouds, just things passing by.
Massive value drop in this video! Makes sense from the opposite perspective when ENxP ignore paperwork or rules. It explodes sometimes in fines or jail time
Underneath thoughts are feelings. Underneath strategies are hopes of illusory immunity from negative feelings. Drop the strategies and accept the negative feelings as being part of reality in this current world. Strategies will keep popping up, but ask them if they are reliable. They are not reliable. After all, permanent escape from negative feelings is unlikely. As soon as you accept that a feeling is inevitable, the energy that went into escape is now available so that the feeling no longer seems to be a problem.
do more on neurodevelopmental disorders and MBTI please! Super interesting and also a field of my personal study. Thanks for sharing your insight on this.
Highly relate. Usually happens in work meetings where I’ll briefly imagine myself saying the most offensive thing possible and then I’m afraid I’m somehow going to say it because I thought of it. When I was a kid, this was coupled with an extreme paranoia that everyone could secretly hear my thoughts 😅
Fascinating subject.. I've rarely, if ever, experienced this (FiSe FF here with masculine demon Ni).. and I'm pretty grateful.
I didn't even know it was a real thing until I was like 30 years old - one of my co-workers was talking about it, explaining that EVERYONE has them, and he was listing a bunch of examples from his own life (like swerving in traffic and killing people, pushing his friends off the edge of a cliff when hiking).. a few other co-workers chimed in, laughing, telling their stories.. Honestly, I was horrified, the conversation slightly traumatized me. To this day, I struggle with the idea that everyone has them, but this video helps explain that.
I’m an Isfj I had these thoughts before but I’ve always tried to control them
From my MM Si/Fi SB/P mind, it’s ADHD, not OCD. Not so dark, just constant possibilities, overlapping, interwoven, requiring attention!
I am Ni dom (probably feminine) and I have struggled off and on with sensor somatic OCD, so this makes a lot of sense to me. Because my fear is that the uncomfortable bodily sensations will be forever distracting from my internal thought life. Like the physical world is assaulting my mental (safe) space. or alternatively the "what if" thoughts are always centered and focused on some fact that I once learned that seemed scary to me.
This is brilliant.😊😍 I now understand myself as a very feminine ISxJ who has indeed very Joker like thoughts at times. 😂
I hate it when my demon masculine Ne clown jumps out. 0:30
Jokes aside, this video helped me confirm that I do have masculine Ne, which makes me wonder what feminine Si looks like, because I am very territorial about how I like my things to be organized, but maybe that's more connected to my Di? The way that I organize can be very fluid though depending on how well it works.
I have had intrusive thoughts and it's true that the less hard you try the easier it gets to overcome them. As for the Ne savior state stuff of "You've never been in an empty room" I think "yeah, makes sense, who cares?"
As a TiNe it's like watching a world full of schizophrenic crazies
So it's basically 'Drop Dead Fred.'
"JUMP!!! I AM NOT SUGGESTING ANYMORE" we have homelander within us.
INTJ here (typed by you guys
PTSD.
My brain while enjoying a mountain view: Jump off the cliff lol.
😂 same as Ne/Fi except I do this all day with anything
Did you say Mountain Dew!?
YOOOO...
Have you seen that one documentary about those people who are hooked on Mountain Dew!??
They live on (or around?🤔) The Appalachian Trail.
Did you know that I've always wanted to hike the Appalachian Trail?
Well, that's not entirely True; really, I wanna do the Continental Divide Trail. Well, that's not entirely True, either. What I *really* wanna do, is the whole Triple Crown.
Oh, wait.
Did you say:
'Mountain *Dew,'* or:
'Mountain *View?'*
lOl!!
*'DEW THE VIEW!!!'"*
*AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH* 😱🤯🤣
I wish my bad thoughts were just “crash the car lol”, mine are like “YOU ARE INCAPABLE OF LOVE” and “YOUR BOSS HATES YOU” and “YOU ARE A WORTHLESS FAILURE”
Yes. I have single decider people fears...plus the ne.
Sounds like a single decider issue not demon Ne
Thank GOD I found this channel. ENFP here and the demon brain is no joke.
The thing is. I had these intrusive thoughts when i was 5 as an ENTP. Funnily enough, i was called 'the broken pilot' in kindergarten. Lol. So if you decide to act on these intrusive thoughts enough, and you start to learn the limits, like why not to do certain kinds of intrusive thoughts, you become Ne dom.
ENFPs look more normal in this case ahah
What would be the equivalent of this for a person with demon masculine Se? Impulsive actions?
Well, this debunks my theory of me having masculine demon Ne. Back to the drawing board.
Love that you guys are going to TikTok to find people to type!
This makes sense. All of this is stuff that Ni deals with. Physical processes in actual, physical environment. I think Callmekris is NFJ. Her position toward it is "I am not gonna do it. Because that would be rude towards Si. But I want to". On the other hand, Si is afraid of it, because they have hard time dealing with it, if that would actually happen. Ne doms want to collect the answers to be safe, so they keep asking Ni people about it.
As an ISFJ I had to learn how to deal with my crazy demon NE. I know now when and with who I can allow myself to let it out lol. Not at work haha 😅😂 . Botteling that up is like an itch you can't scratch lol. Drives you crazy 😮
Give me an example?
@@orangeziggy348 Just letting the thoughts come and go, as Dave said, be aware that it's ok to have them. I like to let that energy out with some random stupid dance or move lol. My partner is used to my sparks of craziness. Having a good laugh at/with these intrusive thoughts is a relieve
Isfj here and yeah wtf lol I never have any thoughts like the examples. My intrusive thoughts are usually just self sabotaging like when I played baseball and a thought would pop in like wow how is it even possible I can hit that little ball with this thin bat. Or how is it even possible I can throw a ball and it actually makes it to that guy over there. Fun, then my performance would suffer and start a big snowball.
😭 Lead M-Ne but CS/P(B) so…I often wish I had more intrusive thoughts lmfaoooo
Some advice I’ve heard to deal with nasty intrusive thoughts is to respond with an absurdly accepting thought no matter how gruesome the thought is. “Huh, what if I stabbed my grandma? Wow, that would be so awesome and funny. I’d be all like stab stab and she’d be like, ‘bleh, I’m dead.’” It can help deprive the brain of the “reward” of reacting strongly to the fear and gives the thought less power over time.
How do you think this phenomenon would present itself when Ne & Si are switched? So feminine Ne on top, and masculine demon Si last. I think of random outbursts of cleaning or purging, when you usually are messy. Any thoughts?
I have the intrusive thoughts AND the random outbursts of cleaning. FF Fe/Ne
What about demon mascoline Ni? Can someone please give me some insights?
Please do more research on what modern day OCD is described as, especially the obsessive part.
CAN YOU PLEASE DO A VIDEO ON DEMON TE!!! :) thx
Wow I was not aware that the violent intrusive thoughts were unique to my type cluster. I just thought I was crazy. I guess that explains why all the saviour feminine Ne's in my life don't get it. Also the trend of all my type twins being unhinged women seems to hold true, which I think is pretty cool. More evidence that you guys got my type right, maybe one day you guys will find a male type twin for me - FF-Si/Te-BP/C(S)
What would it look like for an ENFP?
For me it's the organisation freak. When it gets rejected, I start to feel I am such a failure for not being an organised person. Society helps it in tgat case, but it is so rooted in our psych, I even judge others on things I don't do myself.
Gotta integrate that 4th function in order to be mentally stable
Didn‘t expect Bonny to pop up here haha!
Yeah my isfj brother always says “my mind is a trap” in a joking manner but still
I knew it had to be an Ne correlated issue. I know two ESFJ's with this issue, even though its a middle function. Or maybe it just looks far nore dramatic to me who doesn't conscoously use Ne. I for sure have intrusive thoughts but I don't ever assign meaning to them.
I tried to warn you about those damn Pixie Girls Dave.
I relate to this problem a lot... OCD too.
Another fun one. Enjoy the channel. 🤗
Thanks for the insightful video.
what about demon masculine SI, if demon masculine Ne is intrusive thoughts, what is Masculine demon SI doing to ENTPs and ENFPs who have it?
I think demon Se has intrusive thought too.
I have fFi savior and demon mte. How do i know when my Te is wrong and how do i "talk it out"?
hey look it's that girl, KallMeKris
Hmm 🤔 Interesting corelation Demon Ne with Intrusive thoughts -as an INFJ diagnosed w/ pur-ocd when i was young
Gotta love kallmekris
Black Swan movie type of shit
lame morality play stuff but... one's the devil on your shoulder but the latter feels more like the purpose of koans-- in fact, most yogic practice are meant to disrupt normal patterns of thought so X Y or Z, so then asking a questionless question or posing a thought with no beginning or end is given the purpose of interrupting the endless train inside your mind.
They have pretty autistic dreams too
I dont have crazy tought i have evil fantseys as an intp i picture myself as a powerfull gangster when i hear gangsta music but not as a small time gangster the type of gangster that takes over the world becuse he is the smartest
What does attract you about that idea?
NT wanting to be SF popular lol
@@Lacter12 It could also be Fe inferior fantasizing about being strong. Fe doms are usually the ones much liked?
here I am uhhhhh gain to say the content on this channel is soooooooooo much fcking better when Dave is a solo guru without his giggle partner...
Talking out loud and probably talk to themselves when no one around.