Why Star Players in the NHL Make Roughly the Same They Did 20 Years Ago
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- Опубліковано 9 чер 2024
- This was brought up by Allan Walsh on Twitter, so I figured I would make a video on the topic since he missed some details to the argument.
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Shannon is the lightning fast fact-checker we've all needed since 2015.
As a vegas fan i can't even imagine what our owner would spend to try and get the cup. I'd think we'd probably be the modern day rangers spending hundreds of millions just to lose in the 2nd rd lol.
Just to mention Leafs last made 2nd round in 2004, salary cap started 2005.
lmao
Damn son... that's cold.
The Leafs haven't been to a Cup Final since the first NHL expansion when there were only five other teams in the league.
@@TheGreatNathan Yeah, but they've had bad luck with injuries...
@@jeffreym.8957 LOL
I remember those times. The Rangers were a basket case. Name, after name after name, after name, and nothing
Rangers actually won the cup with that strategy in early 90s. The leafs tried the same thing and only went on a few runs.
Now they're becoming a basket case of a different kind.
@@scatterthewinds3126 The 94 cup by the Rangers was well before they started really blatantly trying to buy one
@@Mach141 not really they bought everything at the Deadline, went all in back then after half of edmonton wasnt good enough the years before
This is exhibit 273.1 a. That you don't just parrot TSN and Rodgers.
Can you explain your comment? I don't seem to get it
@@ballhockeyful Cause TSN and Sportsnet would never go in depth like this
Love seeing that jersey come out as a Sabres fan, I wish they’d bring back the red and black
👌🏼👌🏼👌🏼
Could be a nice change of pace as an alternate
As an outsider I always thought the red&black jerseys with the giant demon buffalo head crest was sick, slick, and intimidating as hell. I know there's love for the current jerseys but I think they're as meh as meh can be.
Blue and gold will always be our colors. The red and black looked cool but, they are not our real colors. This jersey in blue and gold would be better than the red and black.
@@j-muddy93 they pretty much have that with the current retro reverse
Better players throughout all lines. GMs realizing you can win without 10 mill plus contracts on the books...
*TORONTO IN SHAMBLES*
@@martingiguere1202 rent free bb, you seem more concerned then the true leaf fans i know now lol
@@jediknightfalcon ya'll live rent free in our heads while we're getting payed to live in Leafs fans mind
I miss that jersey. I'm not even a Sabres fan but I think it's one of my favorite jerseys ever
This is where Shannon is at his best, giving in depth context an analysis of how the game is/ has evolved.
This video was super informative and really interesting. Good job Shannon 👏👍
The video was out 14 minutes ago and it’s 16 minutes long
@@kimjoshua9733 I know, I'm still watching it but from the first couple minutes and how much info he has on the board I already know it's going to be good
@@elijah9769 its Shannon, that's a given it's a solid and informative video 🙌😁
@@kimjoshua9733 If the boy wants to give his props early he can give his props early. Sit down.
As a lifelong Whalers fan I’m old enough to remember when Mike Liut was in the top 10 highest paid players making $400,000.
Ha ha. I'm old enough to remember 20 years ago too. Actually I can remember a whole lot more than that. As far as Boston goes I'm not sure if it was the owner saying not to spend money or if it was Sinden. Sinden was a cheap SOB before Joacobs bought the team. I remember being told that Sinden put a sign on his door that said "If you haven't won a Norris or scored 50 goals don't come in looking for more money".
It is much better now with a Cap. You have more competitive teams across the league.
Great insight and video to inform that a Cap is needed and it's a lot fairer all around.
Jacobs does an amazing job of channeling his inner Jacob Marley. But you're right about Sinden, as I recall him saying around then something along the lines of "from every $1 made, $1.25 goes to the players." Or some similar complaint. Really, Sinden + Jacob Marley was a serious Scrooge McDuck tandem. Let's not forget that's what drove Ray Bourque to the Avs.
@@annihilus23464 Trust me I'll never forget Ray Bourque leaving because they wouldn't keep their talent when it came time to pay them. But like I said, not sure if that was Jacobs doing. He seems to be more than willing to pay now that Sinden and his influence is gone. Don't get me wrong, he's not throwing money around like the Rangers did back in the late 90's. But they have been spending near the top of the Cap and while not over paying they aren't under paying in my opinion. Both Cam and Don went through the Sinden years as players, and I think they have a better understanding with players.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but star players today make much more in bonuses and endorsement deals than 20 years ago
Ooo I love the technical stuff too!
Thanks again man!
Remember when Paul and Teemu took massive pay cuts to play on the Avs together? Imagine the shit storm that would have happen if that happen during the cap era.
I do believe I heard a player say they wanted to do that last season on the Avs. I think it was Mackinnon? Something about taking a cut for his team to have more room/cap
I cant see that causing a shit storm why would it?
What a video, very impressive Shannon, all in one take as always.
Great video. I am old enough to remember those times as well. Parity means Carolina, Nashville and the like can really succeed to make hockey more popular overall.
Alternate title:
How to get removed from Allan Walsh’s Christmas card list.
This seems similar to the haves and have-nots in the mlb today
Exactly what would’ve happened
Can confirm as the fan of a long-suffering small-market MLB team. It's so crazily imbalanced that most fans of big-market teams cannot grasp the economics of it. It simply does not compute with them.
indeed. it’s draft, cheap signings, hope to capitalize on your window, then blow it up
Yup, and the lifeline for small market teams in MLB 20 years ago was being able to use new metrics to identify market inefficiencies, which led to a little something we know as Moneyball. But now, big market teams are using those metrics to find ways to most efficiently spend their fortunes rather than handing out ludicrous contracts to big-name players and paying for their declining years, so there's no loophole for the small markets. Hell, big market teams have even taken the smart number-crunchers from small teams and given them a fortune to spend - Andrew Friedman going from Tampa Bay to the Dodgers being the best example.
It doesn't help that many of the small markets are run by miserly owners who would absolutely detest an NHL-style spending floor (I'm looking at you, Pittsburgh. And Cleveland. And Miami. And Baltimore.)
I think people need to consider the source when forming an impression. Walsh is a player agent. Assuming a flat commission percentage, his job is a lot easier if he can just have a few clients who earn a boatload of money, rather than a bunch of players earning a fair amount.
It’s interesting comparing the payrolls of Boston and Toronto today. Boston’s top three round out at $6.5M while Toronto’s top three make $11M. And the two are arguably similar in competitiveness and fan base. That’s a huge disparity.
You absolutely deserve to have a legitimate show! How you go so in depth is absolutely entertaining and yet informative!
At this day and age i still find it baffling that people do not understand that net worth or similar terms doesn't mean that the entity has that amount of money in cash. Good for Shannon for educating!
Bro, our education system is WAY to busy with sex ed and other such bs time wasting courses. They’re not teaching anything remotely close to net worth, in fact, the education system would rather teach kids that it’s not fair, and that there should be equal distribution of wealth.
Great vid, great topic, thank's Shannon!
That's one sweet jersey!
awesome vid...love the examination from all angles
Great video, entertaining and informative. I expect nothing less, you are a beast!
Outstanding analysis, Shannon. Keep up the exemplary work, brother.
Shannon, quality of your videos lately has been impressive. Very informative, thank you
this is really well thought out and explained. I never would have known any of this
Really informative and insightful!
Thanks for the video Shannon! I’m kinda new to the nhl and all the money stuff confuses me. These kinds of videos help a lot.
The validity in your argument is spot -on! 👍
The salary cap makes the NHL a fair and competitive league and therefore more enjoyable to watch
Something the MLB clearly doesn't want
Great video, very insightful.
Great video.. I remember Tampa back then, they finally got rid of the Japanese "Yakuza" crime family owners in 98' and it took a few years to get some financial stability. There were serious debt issues back then. I'm surprised they could spend 17 million in 2000-2001. It's pretty amazing to think that they were able to win the SC in 2004 during the pre-salary cap era when many teams had almost limitless payrolls. Lucky for Tampa we got a new owner (Jeff Vinik) in 2010 and the Lightning have been able to spend. Total game changer for the franchise. GO BOLTS!
Man this video is so well done
I mean he is absolutely right aboout the fact that max earnings are being artificially limited for individual players by the salary cap.... but that doesn't mean no salary cap is good for the league. You are bang on, I remember the early 2000s salary disparities as well, it was dumb in some cases. Teams meeting in the playoffs, where one had double the payroll.
I always understood that with the NYR, they were under a big umbrella of Madison Square Garden properties, and were told to spend a lot of money to produce losses to offset profits in other parts of the organization.
Hello, I like your "podcast" so full of information. 2 Questions? First...how many Jerseys do you have? Unbelievable... Second how many cats are in your house, I am guessing 2 but...who knows...BTW, I love cats. They are so relaxing and yours seems to stick with you. Continue the good work.
Glen Sather, Pat Quinn & Ken Holland back then were making it rain every trade deadline & at every Free agent. 💰💰
Love the Peca jersey, Shannon. Wish they would have chosen that instead of the butter knives for the reverse retro.
That 2001 Avs team was legendary. Their top five players:
1) Forsberg 9M
2) Sakic 7.9M
3) Roy 7.5M
4) Bourque 5.5M
5) Blake 5.267M
Milan Hejduk was also on that team I believe and he was a beast. I thought Theo Fleury was on that team too but ig he was there the year before. Also a great player.
@@flameszone2326 you forget adam foote, alex tangay, chris drury
Pecan held out an entire year if I remember. Lost income. He went to the islanders at a higher salary, but certainly a higher cost of living. I wonder if peca made the right move. A little off topic, but the peca Jersey brings that memory.
Superstar players also can make millions in endorsement deals nationally and in their home markets.
Couldn't imagine what Dubas would do with no limit.
Probably just give Matthews, JT, and Marner more and more and more.
@@jayscott1380 Exactly. The Super Stars get richer and everybody else stays at league minimum.
@@jayscott1380 Yep.
Don't forget to take inflation into account. According to the US inflation calculator website (can't totally vouch for the accuracy as I haven't totally researched these numbers) a 10 million dollar contract in 2001 is the equivalent of a 15 million dollar contract today. Your point about average payroll still stands though, a 35 million dollar team payroll in 2001 is about 53 million today.
Salary cap is one of the (many) reasons why I prefer hockey to baseball. It sucks to watch Los Angeles and New York and Boston take the players that small market teams can't
All that superstar money now goes to Okposo, Skinner, Eriksson...
I loved everything about this video. Awesome fact-check.
Jeff Skinner makes 9 million per..let that sink in
Love the Peca jersey!!
Do a video on the best trade for each organization and the best low round draft choice for each team.
Could you make a follow up video possibly about team revenue or losses across the league? I cant find too much info on actual numbers. Also just how profitable or not the NHL really is
I remember when the salary cap in and the rangers had the fire sale.
Shannon
NAILED IT
Great video. Agents are the crooked ones.
Another part of all this and the salary cap is the parity the NHL has over all other major sports. I love that on any given night in the NHL, for the most part, any team can win and there is no "super" team like you might see in the NBA. Having the salary cap restrictions allows all teams to have some all starr to super star talent, allowing for better competition across the board. I know super teams can be fun but I personally enjoy the NHL as it is constructed now than back in the day.
Great video
beauty of a jersey
About the Canadian teams, I find it impressive that most of them were close to the average payroll because in those years, the exchange rate was around only 0.67 CAD per USD.
This is great stuff, just subscribed!
You have a lot of videos to catch up - welcome
nice pavel bure thumbnail
I remember one of the storylines that Fox was pushing in the late 90s for a playoff game was Sergi Federov getting a $2 million bonus if the Red Wings closed out the series against...the Blues? and advanced to the conference finals. It was a silly story to leverage I believe I remember thinking
Selänne played with San Jose.
I had to Google "Columbus Blue Jackets" to see what year they started. I was thinking, in spite of what was written on THG's board, that they started in around '04-05. I'm completely shocked that they've been around since 2000. I cannot remember who was on that team or what they did back then. If I can't remember anything about an NHL team that I was able to watch, you know they're boring.
2001...the year the Rigas family was caught embezzling tens of millions of dollars from their cable company for all personal expenses...and not a done went to the hockey team...go sabres
Wow that jersey is way better looking then their current.
I wish I had 5% of your hockey knowledge... Go Hawks!
I’m honestly more of an anti-cap person. I don’t mind the super giant teams. I think it makes better underdog stories and also emphasizes greats stories of players retiring with one team and able to win 3-4 rings with that team. Idk
Las Vegas and Seattle expansion fees are 500 (golden knights) to 650 (kraken) not their value because their value is lower because they are new still
I wonder how much would change if league decided that you can get 1 or 2 contracts not counting under the cap...
Agents are the worst in europe top agents make 20-30mil€ when a player get sold for 80-90 mil
Good points Shannon.
It is a players league so the whole well being should come first.
I’d add the purchasing power of that money is way down.
“If I had a million dollars, I’d be rich” no I wouldn’t, I’d be worried?!
Pavel Bure is a bad example however because he had the greatest share of goals against his team of any player in league history something like 60% of their total goals if I remember. And c
Shannon, what 20 player (any player) roster would you pick and stay below the salary cap?
I would be so god damn happy it they got rid of the cap, as a leafs fan
Factor in inflation and the players are making way less now than 2001
Not the lower tier players. The top end players settle for less to keep their teams competitive.
There’s definitely a benefit to a salary floor and cap, but it just sucks when great teams are ripped apart by cap requirements. The Blackhawks would have won more Cups if they didn’t have to shed the young contributors in order to pay the core. Of course, Stan Bowman should have made better deals to restock the system with prospects, but it’s still a shame
The salary cap makes the game a team game in more than just players on the ice, it includes the pay of the players. If one gets paid 11 mil and another 9½ mil that's 20½ mil out the door, a quarter if the cap and you have many other players to pay with the rest of the cap.
Players cannot ask for the Earth and expect it without the problem of poor team depth which means you ain't winning a cup, just having personal wealth.
Its about how many times to played for the Stanley cup and if lucky you won one, not how much did you get paid and which of your teammates got shafted due to your greed.
However, signing bonuses and small state taxes can soften the blow of not being amongst the highest paid players.
Biggest thing omitted in all this is contract value over the years. Back in the 90's early 00's when guys were making 8-10M, in was on 3-4, maybe 5 year contracts and then, they were lucky to re-sign for 3-5M once they hit they 30's.
Now your stars are making 8~12M/year from their early 20's to their mid to late 30's. (Price will be 38 when his contract is up?) To put into Context, Martin Brodeur, arguably the GOAT goalie in NHL history made something like 5M/year on average for his career.
Gretzky at the end of his career was at around 6M/year. Ovechkin is looking to sign an extension after this year's expansion draft and will likely still fetch a good value after making ... 124M in base salary according to cap friendly?
Sure the top dollar value has decreased when taking inflation into account, but the overall contract payouts over their careers (plus the security of getting paid even when injured) has improved night and day for all hockey players in the NHL.
Solid point
The Sabres have always had some of the best jerseys in hockey.
Another interesting video could be, how much money does it take to start a franchise.
i miss my sabres jerseys like that
I find it interesting that the salary cap is more now than the ducks sold for in 2005.
2000-01 season
Peter Forsberg (Colorado Avalanche) $10 million
Paul Kariya (Anaheim Ducks) $10 million
Jaromir Jagr (Pittsburgh Penguins) $9.842708 million
Pavel Bure (Florida Panthers) $9 million
Keith Tkachuk (St. Louis Blues) $7.3 million
2020-21 season
Auston Matthews (Toronto Maple Leafs) $15.9 million
Mitch Marner (Toronto Maple Leafs) $15 million
Connor McDavid (Edmonton Oilers) $14 million
Artemi Panarin (New York Rangers) $13 million
Sergei Bobrovsky (Florida Panthers) $12 million
I’d say a 50% increase in star salaries over 20 years is substantial even if you ignore all the other good points Shannon made.
Ive always believed that players should all make the same base salary, after that, bonuses based on performance. Guaranteed someone would break the 92 goals in one season record first time around. There should be a Fans Union too, there is no league without us as much as the players we pay to see.
Bure also scored like half of Panthers goals.
This explains so much why Columbus has never really gotten off the ground. How can you with penny-pinching, cheapskate ownership?
That was their 1st or 2nd year in the league. No expansion team spent more than $20 million their first few years in the league becuse their teams sucked and big money free agents did not want to sign becuse theybsucked. So they had to draft well and then pay those players as their contracts came due.
the problem was MIke Illich paying his team twice what the salary cap is now. He directly caused both lockouts. Not to mention pizza with ketchup for sauce.....
@Nunya Bizness Detroit practically runs on Little Ceasers pizza. Especially the impoverished areas. It's not the worst pizza but it's nothing worth bragging about.
Great point, star players make the same but the all players in the league as a whole make significantly more than back then.
Allen Walsh's argument is like the argument that women don't get equal pay
I love the angry goat head!
if there was no cap and no floor… wouldn’t be too surprised to see columbus try to hit 18 mil again. or at least outside the top 30 in spending
How much have ticket prices and TV rights increased?
sather was a terrible GM for yearrrrrrrrrrrrrs and somehow still fluked into a final when price died. meanwhile, today we have wilson at around 17 years, in san jose, and you'd think the karlsson contract woulda got em fired but...he must be best friends with the owner.
Jesus, the NHL 20+ years ago was on the verge of collapse. If the cap wasn't introduced then the league could have ended up with only 6 teams again. Prior to the cap teams like the Oilers and Flames (and my Sens too) were really just farm teams for the likes of the Leafs, Rangers, Flyers & Aves. I think it was 2003 when the Sens (with a payroll of only around 23 million I think) took on the Flyers (with a much higher payroll - 80 million plus if I'm not mistaken) and somehow they took them out. That was a small miracle. If the cap hadn't been implemented then the Sens roster falls apart post 2004 and they never make the final in 2007. For example, without the cap they don't trade Hossa for Heatley, they probably just lose Hossa (since they can't afford his price so they'd probably have to trade him away to one of the "haves" for peanuts). I do not feel one bit of pity that the stars in this league are still *only* making $10 million annually after 20 years when the most of us will never earn money like that over the course of our entire lives. Damn right that Walsh is only thinking about his own bank account. Sure maybe the stars of the league could be earning more today without a cap (but only the stars because as if any of that money would have trickled down to league's grinders) but at least there's now 32 employment opportunities for any player to find a home and get paid, and all 32 franchises have realistic chances of winning the cup - even those rebuilding because they actually have a shot of keeping their developing stars now.
Epic thumbnail 🇷🇺 🚀
I prefer parity over all star teams
The current system works great it keeps the league competitive so all fan bases have a better shot and it doesn’t just feel hopeless all the time. Much like in F1 where you have Mercedes Red Bull Ferrari spending endless amounts of cash and you get the same results and it’s all have and have nots
Isn't Price the only player with a $10m or higher cap hit to ever make it past the first round. I think that kinda says all you need to know about how to allocate salaries in the nhl.