Guys, really? The DESCRIPTION says that this was the first fighting competition in almost forty years. You should not expect a fancy Ong Bak/Jackie Chan movie fight.
@@user-rs7ou9vz6p Leitai matches were banned completely by the Communists and Martial Arts was suppressed during the Cultural Revolution and was only allowed for performances as wushu, sparring was banned until 1979 when they started writing rules for Sanshou competitions, first of which would take place in 1982. So yeah, there was at least a 20 year gap when Martial Arts in mainland China was suppressed and forbidden to spar. That said, the 'old' Leitai matches do survive as Kuoshu matches in Taiwan, though obviously with rules.
@@someboi4903 PRIVATE Lei Tai was banned during the Republican Era, but government sponsored competitions were created in its place. There may have been some regressing, but not at the level you see after 1949. Martial Arts in general was straight up suppressed if not banned completely during the Communist Era. An entire generation essentially could not practice or learn Chinese Martial Arts.
I understand that real fighting itself is not as fancy as what you would see in a lot of kung fu films, but my point is that it probably was much more clean than what we see today especially when in the time where martial artists fighting was much more common than now, where protective gears and rules were at the minimum. Of course, it was even more brutal.
I think that what we see in Kung Fu films nowadays really portray what real Kung Fu fighting was like back then, minus all the flying wire effects. Because I'm assuming fighters back then generally didn't grab that much at all, if not, grappling and ground fighting would be a major section in Kung Fu. People didn't stoop to grabbing like what you see nowadays.
OMG soooo many people blinded by the media! chinese martial arts are absolutely nothing like you see in the movies. thats why people are critiquing this video so badly. this is what fighting is! if you actually look up what they teach in kung fu schools and pay any attention to this video, you will see that they are displaying some very good skills like throws, interceptions and timing. this is also being so highly judged because of the fact that they are throwing these massive punches that apparently most people can see from a mile away. well actually you cant. just because they look sloppy doesnt mean that they arent effective. you see this in street fights all the time. people also have to realize the context of different situations before creating an argument.
Buk Lau . That's right.i was called born a kicker and when I fought I barely throw a kick because it would cost me 3 points if my opponent took me down compare to 1 point of a punch. Is about winning first then look goodThat's why in the video they look simple. You are 100% right.
"Fear" is a major issue in fighting nowadays. The reason why people who train in striking styles end up "grabbing" is because of "fear", you see it all the time. That is why fights are taken to the ground so much now, making it a requirement for UFC/MMA fighters to learn ground fighting.
"Fighters" generally don't fight enough to use what they practice efficiently. Many Kung Fu styles are highly effective, but most who practice them tend to forget or just simply don't know what to do in the situation of a real fight because a lot of them don't understand the nature of real fighting and everything that goes in it; time, space, and energy variations. Also, most fighters you ever see from the 1900's to now are very passive in terms of "moving forward" and "intercepting" the enemy
the 2nd pair/fight...the way each kick into each other must be hurt. I bet both guys have bruises on their stomach and leg for sure. Thanks for sharing. I enjoyed watching it.
thats because this isnt a movie and these fighters clearly have very limited experience actually fighting. This can be seen the way that their techniques clash regularly as both of the fighters fail to predict and then adapt the their opponents moves.
It's a style of punching. It might look sloppy but they're swinging type of hits. I don't know if you notice but I think.. the punches are timed and aimed either to hit the face or to use as a throw maybe? As for kicking It's not that bad just they give up themselves too much at least they aim somewhere like the leg or abdomen. etc etc haha Just a thought.
The sad thing is, when they do walk through the first step, "interception", they end up relying solely on instinct instead of what they've been trained in, resulting in a sloppy brawl. The timing is too fast and their bodys' aren't trained to react in that kind of situation, so they either end up "grabbing", "trading strikes", or "taking hits".
In Kung Fu films, they have to choreograph the reactions of both fighters; how they would intercept each other's strikes or dodge them. All that choreography action directors in films have to do would have been natural to the fighters back then in real fighting, so what we see in movies I would say is the closest thing we get to "Realistic Kung Fu fighting", rather than saying that real fighting is what we see today.
Are you insane? To think that anything you see in martial arts films, especially the Chinese ones, would ever happen in a fight, and has ever happened in a fight is utterly ludicrous. The entire reason behind those scenes looking the way they do is because they are a dance, there is no element of chaos. I think that if you went back in time, the real stuff would look much more raw and brutal than you would suspect.
while all of you experts run your mouths. did you take notice that they don't wear pads, gloves or helmets. lets see just how long all of you grand masters of typing do in this kind of situation
The reason why their attacks are rendering the other person without balance is because they are using Qi in this fight. That is why they look very apprehensive and nervous. They are only being careful. Their attacks and defence are very precise though. Both of these guys can kill UFC fighters easily.
well some guys are more experienced than others, thats what I meant. But you a right, traditional is not kickboxing, eventhough if one can mixed them both you would be better striker, IMO, cheers check this one too : Baji contest in Cangzhou 1988
i practice western boxing and sambo ,you right bruce lee is a legend but the real deal is mma people like fedor,noguiera,klichko,lewis,badr hari,rampage,silva....and many more
Well grabbing in a sense of what a lot of top fighters do nowadays; to transition into ground fighting or wrestling. There are wrestling in some kung fu styles, but not very common for the ultimate level of fighting isn't wrestling or ground fighting. I don't see the Top fighters(in media) today are at a very high level. UFC/MMA guys are strong, have good techniques and all, but that's what I consider more of an armature level.
Well, not arguing, this has been my first return to this thread in a month, I don't really care. I was just taken aback by Pedobrothers claims that there are "superior techniques" like this is some bad Gung Fu movie and that trained professional fighters aren't at a "high level". His claims of Chinese Gung Fu not having grappling are also silly as Shuai Jiao is one of the most ancient wrestling styles in the world, one of the most effective, and is present in every style of Gung Fu.
There is in fact superior techniques and to think that there isn't is just a nice way to put it, so there won't be much discrimination between styles. These "professionals" are good at playing their "games", but are mere amateurs at fighting. I don't care how much they train, it's what they're capable of that matters.
no, its not surprising that their hand work is weak compared to western boxers, but thats because every martial artist in the world has weak hands compared to a professional western boxer. Boxers only train there hands.....all the time. I train traditional Northern Shaolin Long Fist and, while some of these fighters have a fine amount of skill, they are not the pentacle of their arts. The guy on the left in the first fight effectively snuffs his enemy's charges and even side-steps to evade.
be quiet. if you saw the whop tournament instead of biasing your OPINION on a 4 minute clip you would see the clashing kicks are to block the incoming kick. Also "they are weak in their upper body strikes... say that to the knock outs that happened during this tournament
Wow. I think I've heard more interpretations of Bruce Lee's work than I have of the bible. That reaction without thought concept: isn't that what martial artists have been striving towards for centuries? Mr. Lee was brilliant, but he didn't invent that. And as far as kung fu working or not, you just need to break down the forms and practice the techniques for a real time fight. You've GOT TO. There's no way just doing complex movements will make you a good fighter.
I think he probably didn't like the cultish and religious element of chinese martial arts, and probably also thought there wasn't enough room for personalization. What's interesting though is that if you watch videos of him training with his students, they all seem to look like him, or try to. I'm sure there's some idiosyncracies, but then it's really no different from any other martial art. It's only natural to try to imitate the teacher, but equally natural to unavoidably express yourself.
actually u were arguing, and a nice one too. i think what pedobrothers is trying to say is while ufc/mma fighters are plenty strong, and can knock someone out no problem outside a ring, they are still fighting within rules and such, compared to before where people used their gung fu to live. one good example is, not all...but most mma guys use takedowns as a transition to ground fighting, which usually lasts the duration of the round, instead of finishing the fight.
@cloud0123 you are totally right, last year I heard that footage from the National Examinations appeared and the few that were allowed to watch it agre on this. The fighting was terrible. However we only need to look at how the UFC started and when compared with modern MMA fighters the difference is abyssmal. If the Chinese hadn't gone through the cultural revolution, who knows how much better they might have became.
bruce lee took the underlying concepts of martial arts, the style he created was not a style but a a concept whereby no style was exibitted. just an expression of the person. but he still adhered to rules that made each concept work. for exaple he took the stance,sensitivity traing from wing chun. but you still have to adhere to certain principles for it to work. by doingg this, a thought process was eliminated form an atack, creating an unthinking natural flowing reaction.
Although this is a traditional competition. Rules still exist. Alot of REAL traditional fights are using techniques that are really meant to kill. Therefore its not really a good protray of Chinese kung fu. Well leitai during the early 20th century usually last less than a min and casualty is high. When that happens, it doesn't make much of a good show but then again kung fu wasn't meant to be a show. Its meant to survive and kill in ancient times.
the only influence MT had on sanda is that they just took out similar techniques from their own systems and made it into one simplified competitive format. Ie roundhouse, punches, etc.
Unfortunately, what they spend their lives training for is not towards what they think they are training for, but simply a game. Their level of capability is of the game, not fighting.
sanshou is not a style sanshou just means free fighting in chinese wat ever tehcnique u learn for sanshou varies from different masters n regions but there is a government created program of sanshou thats for military n civilians
Don't you understand? How much you train intrinsicly relates to what you are capable of. If there was a superior method of fighting, one that reigned above all others, then wouldn't other fighting styles be extinct? Come on now. Punching, kicking, or grappling don't work 100% of the time. There's an appropriate time and place for each, and calling professional fighters amatuers just makes you sound jealous and disgruntled. If you're so into traditional styles, study something called Wu De.
Perhaps, since there was more time for straight practice, but I still think that your claims of fighters in the past never grabbing and grappling is silly. Historically, wrestling came first as a fighting style in all cultures, so I doubt ancient fighters never grabbed each other.
There are rules. Unfortunately there hasn't been "real" fighting in CMA since 1949, and even that one was shit. Most people can agree that since the beginning of 19th century, the seclusion/isolation of practices/styles and less REAL fighting has contributed to CMA's demise.
Is that what you think, that these guys are trying to make eachother deaf? Someone special might be the very dumb one here. Besides, it's also effective to throw sand in the eyes, kick in the groin, punch the throat but you don't see that in martial/fighting arts, for different reasons.
In my truest and honest opinion, I dont think a real fighter should have to fight on the ground. Ground fighting is popular now because stand up fighting especially Kung Fu in general is too complicated and requires way too much skills for the modern person. To achieve that ability is just too hard for the modern person, not because we are born weaker, but because of our modern societies in which we live in.
haha its not that this is not the "real" kung fu. If I went into an Muay Thai gym or a Judo school and watched the students there spar then that would be "real". The issue is that people compare the practitioners in this video to UFC fighters and professional boxers. You cant compare professional fighters of one style or field to amateurs in another
It's amazing when sanshou guys claim that their style is not influenced by muay thai. They alway say that sanshou has been part of kungfu since the begining yet these guys seem to have no ideal on how to fight. This fight is in China with chinese players yet it looks nothing like sanshou/sanda. If sanshou has been part of kungfu for a very long time then why are they not useing it in 1986.
That is why people just learn what they think is practical; styles like thai boxing and ground fighting(ie. jujitsu) is the best choice for that purpose. Real fighting skill is starting to become extinct.
haha... im pretty sure Kung fu is useless against an unorthodox fighter who reacts and doesn't rely on rules to guide his fighting, I.E. Bruce Lee, felt kung fu had too many rules thats why he created his own style.
Wow...now you've single-handedly shot down your own credibility. To call professionals who fight and train for a living amatuers, even amongst the best is absurd. The fact that you even think you know what the "highest level of fighting" is shows how little you know. There isn't any superior technique, style, or approach.
Guys, really? The DESCRIPTION says that this was the first fighting competition in almost forty years. You should not expect a fancy Ong Bak/Jackie Chan movie fight.
It wasnt..the first Leitai tournamnets occurred in the ancient China ...also in 1928
@@user-rs7ou9vz6p Leitai matches were banned completely by the Communists and Martial Arts was suppressed during the Cultural Revolution and was only allowed for performances as wushu, sparring was banned until 1979 when they started writing rules for Sanshou competitions, first of which would take place in 1982. So yeah, there was at least a 20 year gap when Martial Arts in mainland China was suppressed and forbidden to spar.
That said, the 'old' Leitai matches do survive as Kuoshu matches in Taiwan, though obviously with rules.
@@taoliu3949 The Lei Tai was banned by the Republican government.
@@someboi4903 PRIVATE Lei Tai was banned during the Republican Era, but government sponsored competitions were created in its place. There may have been some regressing, but not at the level you see after 1949.
Martial Arts in general was straight up suppressed if not banned completely during the Communist Era. An entire generation essentially could not practice or learn Chinese Martial Arts.
I understand that real fighting itself is not as fancy as what you would see in a lot of kung fu films, but my point is that it probably was much more clean than what we see today especially when in the time where martial artists fighting was much more common than now, where protective gears and rules were at the minimum. Of course, it was even more brutal.
I think that what we see in Kung Fu films nowadays really portray what real Kung Fu fighting was like back then, minus all the flying wire effects.
Because I'm assuming fighters back then generally didn't grab that much at all, if not, grappling and ground fighting would be a major section in Kung Fu. People didn't stoop to grabbing like what you see nowadays.
OMG soooo many people blinded by the media! chinese martial arts are absolutely nothing like you see in the movies. thats why people are critiquing this video so badly. this is what fighting is! if you actually look up what they teach in kung fu schools and pay any attention to this video, you will see that they are displaying some very good skills like throws, interceptions and timing. this is also being so highly judged because of the fact that they are throwing these massive punches that apparently most people can see from a mile away. well actually you cant. just because they look sloppy doesnt mean that they arent effective. you see this in street fights all the time. people also have to realize the context of different situations before creating an argument.
+Buk Lau this is so true...nowadays people are blinded by movies..(english is not my first language..)
Buk Lau . That's right.i was called born a kicker and when I fought I barely throw a kick because it would cost me 3 points if my opponent took me down compare to 1 point of a punch. Is about winning first then look goodThat's why in the video they look simple. You are 100% right.
it looked pretty sick to me. P.S. This is a kinda old comment
"Fear" is a major issue in fighting nowadays. The reason why people who train in striking styles end up "grabbing" is because of "fear", you see it all the time. That is why fights are taken to the ground so much now, making it a requirement for UFC/MMA fighters to learn ground fighting.
"Fighters" generally don't fight enough to use what they practice efficiently. Many Kung Fu styles are highly effective, but most who practice them tend to forget or just simply don't know what to do in the situation of a real fight because a lot of them don't understand the nature of real fighting and everything that goes in it; time, space, and energy variations.
Also, most fighters you ever see from the 1900's to now are very passive in terms of "moving forward" and "intercepting" the enemy
the 2nd pair/fight...the way each kick into each other must be hurt. I bet both guys have bruises on their stomach and leg for sure.
Thanks for sharing. I enjoyed watching it.
thats because this isnt a movie and these fighters clearly have very limited experience actually fighting. This can be seen the way that their techniques clash regularly as both of the fighters fail to predict and then adapt the their opponents moves.
It's a style of punching. It might look sloppy but they're swinging type of hits. I don't know if you notice but I think.. the punches are timed and aimed either to hit the face or to use as a throw maybe? As for kicking It's not that bad just they give up themselves too much at least they aim somewhere like the leg or abdomen. etc etc
haha Just a thought.
The sad thing is, when they do walk through the first step, "interception", they end up relying solely on instinct instead of what they've been trained in, resulting in a sloppy brawl. The timing is too fast and their bodys' aren't trained to react in that kind of situation, so they either end up "grabbing", "trading strikes", or "taking hits".
In Kung Fu films, they have to choreograph the reactions of both fighters; how they would intercept each other's strikes or dodge them.
All that choreography action directors in films have to do would have been natural to the fighters back then in real fighting, so what we see in movies I would say is the closest thing we get to "Realistic Kung Fu fighting", rather than saying that real fighting is what we see today.
Are you insane? To think that anything you see in martial arts films, especially the Chinese ones, would ever happen in a fight, and has ever happened in a fight is utterly ludicrous.
The entire reason behind those scenes looking the way they do is because they are a dance, there is no element of chaos. I think that if you went back in time, the real stuff would look much more raw and brutal than you would suspect.
while all of you experts run your mouths. did you take notice that they don't wear pads, gloves or helmets. lets see just how long all of you grand masters of typing do in this kind of situation
The reason why their attacks are rendering the other person without balance is because they are using Qi in this fight. That is why they look very apprehensive and nervous. They are only being careful. Their attacks and defence are very precise though. Both of these guys can kill UFC fighters easily.
well some guys are more experienced than others, thats what I meant. But you a right, traditional is not kickboxing, eventhough if one can mixed them both you would be better striker, IMO, cheers
check this one too : Baji contest in Cangzhou 1988
i practice western boxing and sambo ,you right bruce lee is a legend but the real deal is mma people like fedor,noguiera,klichko,lewis,badr hari,rampage,silva....and many more
Well grabbing in a sense of what a lot of top fighters do nowadays; to transition into ground fighting or wrestling.
There are wrestling in some kung fu styles, but not very common for the ultimate level of fighting isn't wrestling or ground fighting. I don't see the Top fighters(in media) today are at a very high level. UFC/MMA guys are strong, have good techniques and all, but that's what I consider more of an armature level.
Well, not arguing, this has been my first return to this thread in a month, I don't really care. I was just taken aback by Pedobrothers claims that there are "superior techniques" like this is some bad Gung Fu movie and that trained professional fighters aren't at a "high level". His claims of Chinese Gung Fu not having grappling are also silly as Shuai Jiao is one of the most ancient wrestling styles in the world, one of the most effective, and is present in every style of Gung Fu.
There is in fact superior techniques and to think that there isn't is just a nice way to put it, so there won't be much discrimination between styles. These
"professionals" are good at playing their "games", but are mere amateurs at fighting. I don't care how much they train, it's what they're capable of that matters.
3:28-3:30, that is sweet.
no, its not surprising that their hand work is weak compared to western boxers, but thats because every martial artist in the world has weak hands compared to a professional western boxer. Boxers only train there hands.....all the time. I train traditional Northern Shaolin Long Fist and, while some of these fighters have a fine amount of skill, they are not the pentacle of their arts. The guy on the left in the first fight effectively snuffs his enemy's charges and even side-steps to evade.
be quiet. if you saw the whop tournament instead of biasing your OPINION on a 4 minute clip you would see the clashing kicks are to block the incoming kick. Also "they are weak in their upper body strikes... say that to the knock outs that happened during this tournament
Wow. I think I've heard more interpretations of Bruce Lee's work than I have of the bible.
That reaction without thought concept: isn't that what martial artists have been striving towards for centuries? Mr. Lee was brilliant, but he didn't invent that. And as far as kung fu working or not, you just need to break down the forms and practice the techniques for a real time fight. You've GOT TO. There's no way just doing complex movements will make you a good fighter.
I think he probably didn't like the cultish and religious element of chinese martial arts, and probably also thought there wasn't enough room for personalization. What's interesting though is that if you watch videos of him training with his students, they all seem to look like him, or try to. I'm sure there's some idiosyncracies, but then it's really no different from any other martial art. It's only natural to try to imitate the teacher, but equally natural to unavoidably express yourself.
actually u were arguing, and a nice one too. i think what pedobrothers is trying to say is while ufc/mma fighters are plenty strong, and can knock someone out no problem outside a ring, they are still fighting within rules and such, compared to before where people used their gung fu to live. one good example is, not all...but most mma guys use takedowns as a transition to ground fighting, which usually lasts the duration of the round, instead of finishing the fight.
@cloud0123 you are totally right, last year I heard that footage from the National Examinations appeared and the few that were allowed to watch it agre on this. The fighting was terrible. However we only need to look at how the UFC started and when compared with modern MMA fighters the difference is abyssmal. If the Chinese hadn't gone through the cultural revolution, who knows how much better they might have became.
bruce lee took the underlying concepts of martial arts, the style he created was not a style but a a concept whereby no style was exibitted. just an expression of the person. but he still adhered to rules that made each concept work.
for exaple he took the stance,sensitivity traing from wing chun. but you still have to adhere to certain principles for it to work. by doingg this, a thought process was eliminated form an atack, creating an unthinking natural flowing reaction.
Although this is a traditional competition. Rules still exist. Alot of REAL traditional fights are using techniques that are really meant to kill. Therefore its not really a good protray of Chinese kung fu. Well leitai during the early 20th century usually last less than a min and casualty is high. When that happens, it doesn't make much of a good show but then again kung fu wasn't meant to be a show. Its meant to survive and kill in ancient times.
the only influence MT had on sanda is that they just took out similar techniques from their own systems and made it into one simplified competitive format. Ie roundhouse, punches, etc.
I want see before 1949.
le tai fighting is awesome, i'm thinking of starting it.
i learn from Phoenix Eye Fists...which is resembles like Wing Chun-Bruce Lee's wushu!
And where did you learn about Kung Fu from, Shaw Bros. movies or actual fact?
well said
Unfortunately, what they spend their lives training for is not towards what they think they are training for, but simply a game. Their level of capability is of the game, not fighting.
sanshou is not a style sanshou just means free fighting in chinese wat ever tehcnique u learn for sanshou varies from different masters n regions but there is a government created program of sanshou thats for military n civilians
Awesome sanda fights man
Don't you understand? How much you train intrinsicly relates to what you are capable of. If there was a superior method of fighting, one that reigned above all others, then wouldn't other fighting styles be extinct?
Come on now. Punching, kicking, or grappling don't work 100% of the time. There's an appropriate time and place for each, and calling professional fighters amatuers just makes you sound jealous and disgruntled. If you're so into traditional styles, study something called Wu De.
New? They are using traditional techniques as opposed to kick boxing which is rampant nowdays.
Perhaps, since there was more time for straight practice, but I still think that your claims of fighters in the past never grabbing and grappling is silly. Historically, wrestling came first as a fighting style in all cultures, so I doubt ancient fighters never grabbed each other.
@himalayanspirit
no way. they dont even protect their faces.
看了半天，leitai原来是不是单词而是一个拼音，faint！
well they seem pretty new to figthing, but at least have balls to do it
There are but have been censored in China
There are rules. Unfortunately there hasn't been "real" fighting in CMA since 1949, and even that one was shit. Most people can agree that since the beginning of 19th century, the seclusion/isolation of practices/styles and less REAL fighting has contributed to CMA's demise.
its almost like DBZ fighting when they fight in that arena!
Is that what you think, that these guys are trying to make eachother deaf? Someone special might be the very dumb one here.
Besides, it's also effective to throw sand in the eyes, kick in the groin, punch the throat but you don't see that in martial/fighting arts, for different reasons.
In my truest and honest opinion, I dont think a real fighter should have to fight on the ground. Ground fighting is popular now because stand up fighting especially Kung Fu in general is too complicated and requires way too much skills for the modern person. To achieve that ability is just too hard for the modern person, not because we are born weaker, but because of our modern societies in which we live in.
when things get desperate, out come the haymakers..
haha its not that this is not the "real" kung fu. If I went into an Muay Thai gym or a Judo school and watched the students there spar then that would be "real". The issue is that people compare the practitioners in this video to UFC fighters and professional boxers. You cant compare professional fighters of one style or field to amateurs in another
00:42 I thought he was transforming into Super Saiyan
he..he..
It's amazing when sanshou guys claim that their style is not influenced by muay thai. They alway say that sanshou has been part of kungfu since the begining yet these guys seem to have no ideal on how to fight. This fight is in China with chinese players yet it looks nothing like sanshou/sanda. If sanshou has been part of kungfu for a very long time then why are they not useing it in 1986.
at least they can throw.
That is why people just learn what they think is practical; styles like thai boxing and ground fighting(ie. jujitsu) is the best choice for that purpose. Real fighting skill is starting to become extinct.
Bitch slaps are effective...
haha... im pretty sure Kung fu is useless against an unorthodox fighter who reacts and doesn't rely on rules to guide his fighting, I.E. Bruce Lee, felt kung fu had too many rules thats why he created his own style.
Nope. He left Kung Fu cause there was no Kung Fu teacher in US. Check your facts;)
P.S. UFC also has rules, in fact UFC even has gloves
An amateur boxer would knock both of them out.
Because boxers totally kick and throw people.
@doink3 lol look geeky Asian from distance, and people start putting their defense down... ;P
this doesn't look like the martial arts in the movies... its like a cat fight. bitch slaps everywhere... damn...
It does t look like kung fu or wushu....it is mor look like veey low level kickboxing's student
Wow...now you've single-handedly shot down your own credibility. To call professionals who fight and train for a living amatuers, even amongst the best is absurd. The fact that you even think you know what the "highest level of fighting" is shows how little you know.
There isn't any superior technique, style, or approach.
LOL. That's a good joke.
ive never seen a kungfu swing his arm like a hooligan!
How gay
What a complete load of bollocks !