I’m so glad you guys finally covered this…My favorite era of my favorite performer; completely controversial and outstandingly talented….I was thinking Bruce was afraid of addressing this drama….you guys have gone many years without doing this “obvious” episode.
Me too, he was more of a star in the 90s while in the 2000s he was out of the spotlight and that made me sad because he was my favorite and was still amazing.
My favorite era of my all time favorite performer. I do however wish Shawn had gotten to keep wrestling through 98 at least but im grateful he turned his life around and didn't die
Rewatching these Raw episodes…. 2/3/97 SM references how hated Muhammad Ali was like himself during his reign and now they refer to him as the GOAT…. Man how right SM was 😂 everyone calls him the GOAT….. 👏🏼 🤘🏼
@@joemama7163 Nahh.. But Kurt agrees. Says Shawn is the greatest he's ever seen and by far the best he's ever wrestled. Talk is Jericho.. its a good listen 👍
I love how when Shawn and Bret talked about the fight they acted like they both had the upper hand but everyone else says the fight was just pulling each other’s hair.
I was lucky enough to be in HS and at my height of fandom during this time and this was really fun to listen to. And Bruce was actually invested here, one of the best STWs in awhile.
Nothing, and I mean nothing was better than HBK from 95-98. He kept the damn Lights on at Titan Tower in 96 and that's just a fact. Without Shawn, WWF sinks like the Titanic in 96. The night after Bad Blood was the night Shawn told us all what was coming for 2022, when He said the "Kliq OWNS this Business".
So true. Especially when you think about how all the previous top guys were all gone from the company except Taker. Lex Luger and Diesel went to WCW, Bret was off TV to try out acting…all he had to work with was Sid and Vader. If he wanted to he could have bolted too but he decided to stay and work through the tough times, it’s no wonder Vince was so loyal to him.
If he did that good of a job keeping the lights on, the company wouldn’t have been in the shits in 95-96. the worst shape it ever was, they took out the damn water coolers haha I’m thinking the lights weren’t that far out. Austin turned it around.
@@warrior316 I was waiting for the first one. So here's the facts for you, because those AND DETAILS matter. No one in Shawn's spot in 96 was going to outdraw the Hostile Takeover Angle that morphed into Hogan being the "Third Man" and became the nWo. Especially with how Vince and Pat were still Booking in 1996. Nobody. Bret? He was a "Free Agent" at the time and even if He would've been there, He wasn't getting it done. The 2nd Half of 97 proved that. Taker? He had the First Half of 97 and didn't get it done. Sid? Vader? Foley? Nope, Hell No, and Fuck No. Nobody was and the fact is that Shawn carried that place in 96 and it wasn't until 97 when the place was supposedly in trouble even though I always thought 97 was better than WCW's and that out of Business stuff was exaggerated.
@@warrior316 lmfao shawn michaels was the only draw they had in 1996. the other draw bret Hart wasn’t there for the entire year he had nobody to help him. it’s like how roman reigns and cena is a draw but the ratings were crap a few years ago too when they were on top because the company is trash.
Shawn Michaels was one of the best pro wrestlers of all time his matches are so legendary there’s no comparing any other wrestler to this guy not a lot of wrestlers can come back after a serious back injury better than ever like he did I was fortunate enough to see some of his matches in person at a house in San Francisco 1996 against Vader at wrestlemania 19 in my hometown of Seattle against Chris Jericho, in 2003 And in a tag match with Randy Orton at Monday night raw in San Jose, California, January 2005
I see the comments about Bret being a cry-baby but I can sympathize w him. He was a loyal employee to Vince for over 12 years & had built up a solid character that the fans loved. Them guys just kept tearing him down a little at a time. It started at WM when they had Bret drop the title to Shawn & then Shawn would refuse to drop it back to him. Then they book Bret to win in the 4-way only to have him lose it almost right away. They never would've done that to Hulk! And think back to when HH refused to drop the belt to Bret after winning it from Yoko, Bret was being pushed aside then too. He never even wanted to leave WWF, Vince pushed him out. I'd be bitter too. And then all of the tragedies, it was one thing after another! Owen passing, Davey Boy passing, the concussion that forced him to retire, the stroke, then his wife leaving him..
I couldn't imagine having the weight of the whole company on your shoulders at that young age. Shawn never gave a bad performance. Even through everything he went through, he still is a legend
I think Bruce is lying when he says that Bret wouldn’t have been better in 14. I think Bret losing to Austin at 14 would have been awesome. Not only that Bret might not have got hurt. Also Austin loved Bret and definitely would have rather worked with him.
Austin completing his arc by winning the belt and finally pinning Bret with the cameras on would have been brilliant. They could have had Undertaker cost Shawn at Springfield In Your House as pitched to Bret by Vince and end up with Shawn vs Undertaker underneath Bret vs Austin, to get ready for Austin vs Shawn for the rest of the year. Although if you have Shawn beat Taker to set up Austin vs Shawn, there's no "streak." So swings and roundabouts.
But it's no surprise Bruce said that, he and Vince are still the heads of the HBK fan club. Bruce's pro Shawn Shawn bias still hasn't changed right from when they first started doing these podcasts
Here's a fact. All wrestlers are trying to get themselves over at all times and it's for life. To say Bret is STILL crying over it is not a true statement. Do ALL wrestlers tend to hold grudges in their personal lives? Yes. Otherwise, we would not be a bit interested in shoot interviews. Do wrestlers understand this? Yes. Does drama get views. Yes. Bret has wholeheartedly forgave Shawn AND Vince. I know this as fact because I talked to Bret personally about his forgiving Hbk and Vince. Admittedly, I do not know him personally but my son and I spent some time with him in Chicago. He was at an event called Days of the dead. I thought it seemed weird until I had thought of the electric chair guy he had in his basement (shown in the Wrestling with Shadows documentary) and talked about his interest in the horror genre and how he didn't have that chair guy anymore but really liked it. Now, with all of that said, Bret has his faults. News flash. They all have their vices just like we do. Even someone like Cena probably has his vices too. I won't speculate. My point to my rant is this. What you see in tv obviously isn't real and I assume you know this. Wrestlers (especially back then) were like carnie grifters. Spend some time around Virgil and you get a great idea of what I'm talking about. Wrestlers are however usually very nice and gracious. Usually. I guess instead of saying all of this I could have just said, before casting stones and hating on one guy but holding this other guy in such high regard, just remember that they ALL have their shit. Just like us and probably you. About an hour after chatting with Bret, we were passing him in the hallway and Bret stopped and scruffed my son's hair and told Colton that he was happy to meet him and hooed to see us again. He may have just been selling for us. It was a kind gesture either way. I would also like to say Shawn Michaels in my opinion was the total package. Shawn is the greatest of all time. He as well has changed for the better. Chris Jericho has said it repeatedly that in order to be great you have to a prick. He may not be a great example because of course he's kind of a prick. I truly believe he's right though. It's a cutthroat business. Rant over. Just maybe not take this stuff so seriously and troll who these people are in real life because they all have their faults. As do you. As do I. They are humans too.
As someone that lived on earth at one point dear reader know that wwf was amazing at one point and they were the best of times. Listening to a producer that was there retell these stories with back stage perspective and real life experience with these huge character's. Bruce and con rad are a awesome team and Shawn Michaels is the greatest performer in the history of 4 corners
In regards to the "Sunny Days" comment that HBK made towards Bret, I believe that Bret Hart said in his book that Brian Pillman caught it & told Bret about it & the next day Bret's youngest son had asked him "Are you & Ms. Sunny messing around Dad?"
I'm glad Shawn had his second run, because it seems like 2/3 of this period is him either being legitimately hurt or potentially faking being hurt. And the other 1/3 is him being a cancer in the locker room. During this whole era, I was squarely on Bret's side and just found him obnoxious.
58:38 this is why I have no respect for Dave. He time and time again over the years only gives you half of the truth to fit a narrative he wants to tell. To sit here and say that it was HBK’s fault that in June 1996 they started losing to WCW in the ratings but before that when Brett was the champion it was fine, if you telling Mark today that wasn’t watching back then he would say “well the numbers are there in the numbers don’t lie”…. That’s true to a point until you tell the entire story and then Dave just looks like a Mark that hates HBK, and I’m not saying HBK was perfect by any means but Dave conveniently leaves out that there was something else very big that happened in June 201996 in the wrestling world. This is when Scott and Kevin walk out on nitro and start the NWL. If it had been the other way around and HBK was The champion for the first half of the year and then Brett won the belt at the end of April Dave would move heaven and earth to make sure everyone understood it wasn’t his fault that’s when the NWO angle started and by the way Brett would win the belt again in the next calendar year and guess what….. they still didn’t be WCW in the ratings because it had nothing to do with who the champion of the WWF is. Anyone that uses that argument during this time frame to make certain wrestlers look bad to fit a narrative is someone that only uses half truths.
Shawn had an ego he didn’t want to lose to Brett at WrestleMania like Vince had originally planned so both can be tied 1-1 a piece. Shawn was the one that was uncooperative and said no to a lot of Vince’s plans that Vince wanted to do with Brett and Shawn’s Feud and Rivalry. But because Shawn had a great working relationship with Vince and gained his trust so much Vince jut said ok and went a different direction every time Shawn said no to an idea or Storyline with Brett. Shawn wasn’t severely injured either that was an act.
Is the hell in the cell with taker and Shawn match of the year or is WM13 with Austin and Bret the match of the year. Watching both I still take 13. It was more important with the double turn
Austin/Bret was the better match and indeed in my top 3 wwe matches of all time. BUT... can't take nothing away from that cell match, also an A+ classic.
The fans don’t care about who drew ratings , no…. What they care about is the drama and shots taken that promo caused. So it’s not about what Shawn said , it’s about the fact he said it. Ppl tune in for drama and unpredictable content…. It caused drama.
Pritchard recently claimed that they negotiated with Hogan coming back as the leader of DX. Either the people at the top lost touch with reality, or Pritchard is trying to work us.
To me the summer slam 97- royal rumble 98 was my favorite run of HBK’s career. He was the perfect heel and DX was the perfect faction for him. However, as much as I love Shawn, I’ve never understood WHY he got away with so much . He was never a HUGE draw , he never carried the company, he was not THE guy you went to see like taker , hogan , bret , or flair was . Mostly people just talk about “what a great worker “ he was . I know he was but there were plenty more that were just as good if not better that never got away with the stuff he pulled
Because vince allowed it and hbk knew he can get away with. Go watch vince on commentary when hbk comes out for his entrances during that time. Vince would get so excited and sound like a fan boy.
Conrad is right, when Brett started berating Vince McMahon, he was speaking to him as the owner of the WWF, I don't know what Bruce Prichard is talking about, he might as well had agreed with Conrad because he talkin out his butt with that answer 😂, just like when Kevin Nash lost the title to Brett and he came out on Monday night raw approach Vince McMahon with that work shoot, talkin about all the weight with all his his back because this one him to go corporate,
Funny that Bruce says it didn't have anything to do with the USA Network and it had to deal with the PTC but yeah his boss, Triple H goes on an interview talking about that and clearly admits it was the USA Network ................. COME ON BRUUUUUUUUUUUCE
While maybe not same degree as Memphis riot but I was at a Nitro at Nassau Coliseum when Warrior was there, fans were just unruly and esp at the end of night we couldn’t even watch the main event because more concerned about being hit with trash by fans. Fast forward to WWF Raw at Coliseum night of Austin pouring concrete into Vince Corvette. Fans far better and spoke with some security that night and they said many told management they would never work a WCW event if they came back
@@bb-gc2tx Been to a bunch at Nassau Coliseum both tv and house shows. Will never forget House show Austin v Michaels. Crowd reaction was unique at that time
I'm sorry but anybody who thinks that primadonna, striptease Chippendale, flippy I should have been an acrobat in a circus thinks that Shawn Michaels is the greatest of all time is just absolutely delusional. I understand it's an opinion and a matter of perspective but Shawn Michaels did not know how to WRESTLE!! He didn't know an arm bar from a candy bar just watch his matches and see how uncomfortable he was when he had to put on wrestling holds and maneuvers. Was he athletic and was he able to do jumps and flips? Absolutely not denying that. But to be the greatest you need to also be able to carry the company on your back which he was unable to do so. He is a tag team specialist and he had to ask Gerald Briscoe how to perform wrestling holds and Maneuvers cuz he was afraid Bret Hart was going to kick his ass after the Montreal screw job. Great performer but not the GOAT!! Not by a long shot!! Anybody who thinks that Shawn Michaels is better than Bret Hart, Steve austin, Ric Flair, Undertaker and there are a million more names I want to mention but last but certainly not least and the man who truly did make wrestling what it is today Hulk Hogan, Shawn Michaels could be anybody's favorite but stop it with him saying he's the GOAT!!
I see Bruce's Pro Shawn bias is still as evident as ever. I thought that might have cooled off over the years of him doing this podcast but nope...he's still head of the HBK super fan club with Vince 😂😂
Also everyone who argues that Shawn had no one to work with his calibre, forgets the kliqs mission was to hold guys down so the alone could control the main money in wwf.
@Bryan Mack there's so many factors/variables to how the business was/is doing financially at any time. It's lazy and illogical to put it down to just one performer.
Bret Hart, HBK, Sid, Taker, and Diesel were all champions during that time. *NONE* of them drew. It didn't matter who had the title. The company just wasn't good. It didn't matter who was champion. The WWF was stuck in the 80s in terms of their presentation and fans were turned off by that. WCW and ECW were more progressive in their approach. Once the WWF changed and moved into the Attitude Era, then champions started drawing. In fact EVERYONE was over. Even lower mid-carders were relevant during those years. I think people need to look at the New Generation era from a more panoramic-perspective rather than tossing blame on one guy or another. You can't tell me that Diesel, Bret, or a healthy HBK, as champion wouldn't have been a top-draw in the Attitude Era. Heck, it was Diesel that really started the Attitude Era at the end of 1995 (quiet as it's kept.) Most people give the Austin 3:16 promo credit for lighting the fuse for the Attitude Era and the powder-keg finally exploded in late 1997. However, it was really Diesel that started it. He cut a scathing worked-shoot promo on Vince after he lost the title to Bret at *Survivor Series* and basically became the Kevin Nash we saw in the nWo. I just think the timing was wrong for those guys.
I’m so glad you guys finally covered this…My favorite era of my favorite performer; completely controversial and outstandingly talented….I was thinking Bruce was afraid of addressing this drama….you guys have gone many years without doing this “obvious” episode.
Shawn Michaels will always be my favorite wrestler, but liked him the most during the 90s.
Me too, he was more of a star in the 90s while in the 2000s he was out of the spotlight and that made me sad because he was my favorite and was still amazing.
Me too! He was second to none. 🤘🤘🤘.
@@tammyfytch1073 I thought I creamed my pants when he returned to wrestle in 2002, and I'm straight lol
@@detroitmade5169 RIGHT?
@@tammyfytch1073 So did you enjoy your extracurricular activities with HBK? lol
My favorite era of my all time favorite performer. I do however wish Shawn had gotten to keep wrestling through 98 at least but im grateful he turned his life around and didn't die
Mid 90's Shawn is just the greatest, to this day nobody has been that good in the ring bell to bell. Guy could have 5 stars with a broomstick.
His second run 2002-2010 was also great
@@vampirascoffin870 100%.. He could tell a far better story with his matches then. Didn't need a title.
Calm down man. He was no Yeti.
@@vampirascoffin870 for me 02-10 was better
Maybe even ☆☆☆ with a mop
One of the best episodes Bruce and Conrad have done in a long time.
My favorite version of the heartbreak kid
Honestly haven’t listened to one of these in a long time, been wanting topics like this. Glad it was a good one. Keep the GOOD content coming
Literally same
Rewatching these Raw episodes…. 2/3/97 SM references how hated Muhammad Ali was like himself during his reign and now they refer to him as the GOAT…. Man how right SM was 😂 everyone calls him the GOAT….. 👏🏼 🤘🏼
Best Wrestler Ever. HBK
Best at losing his smile
@@CannedHam2479 hey Bret
bell to bell the greatest and its not even close
Is HBK a new way to say Kurt Angle?
@@joemama7163 Nahh.. But Kurt agrees. Says Shawn is the greatest he's ever seen and by far the best he's ever wrestled. Talk is Jericho.. its a good listen 👍
I love how when Shawn and Bret talked about the fight they acted like they both had the upper hand but everyone else says the fight was just pulling each other’s hair.
I was lucky enough to be in HS and at my height of fandom during this time and this was really fun to listen to. And Bruce was actually invested here, one of the best STWs in awhile.
Nothing, and I mean nothing was better than HBK from 95-98. He kept the damn Lights on at Titan Tower in 96 and that's just a fact. Without Shawn, WWF sinks like the Titanic in 96. The night after Bad Blood was the night Shawn told us all what was coming for 2022, when He said the "Kliq OWNS this Business".
So true. Especially when you think about how all the previous top guys were all gone from the company except Taker. Lex Luger and Diesel went to WCW, Bret was off TV to try out acting…all he had to work with was Sid and Vader. If he wanted to he could have bolted too but he decided to stay and work through the tough times, it’s no wonder Vince was so loyal to him.
If he did that good of a job keeping the lights on, the company wouldn’t have been in the shits in 95-96. the worst shape it ever was, they took out the damn water coolers haha I’m thinking the lights weren’t that far out. Austin turned it around.
@@warrior316 I was waiting for the first one. So here's the facts for you, because those AND DETAILS matter. No one in Shawn's spot in 96 was going to outdraw the Hostile Takeover Angle that morphed into Hogan being the "Third Man" and became the nWo. Especially with how Vince and Pat were still Booking in 1996. Nobody. Bret? He was a "Free Agent" at the time and even if He would've been there, He wasn't getting it done. The 2nd Half of 97 proved that. Taker? He had the First Half of 97 and didn't get it done. Sid? Vader? Foley? Nope, Hell No, and Fuck No. Nobody was and the fact is that Shawn carried that place in 96 and it wasn't until 97 when the place was supposedly in trouble even though I always thought 97 was better than WCW's and that out of Business stuff was exaggerated.
@@warrior316 lmfao shawn michaels was the only draw they had in 1996. the other draw bret Hart wasn’t there for the entire year he had nobody to help him. it’s like how roman reigns and cena is a draw but the ratings were crap a few years ago too when they were on top because the company is trash.
@@warrior316 also 1996 and 1997 were wcws hottest years.
Shawn Michaels was one of the best pro wrestlers of all time his matches are so legendary there’s no comparing any other wrestler to this guy not a lot of wrestlers can come back after a serious back injury better than ever like he did I was fortunate enough to see some of his matches in person at a house in San Francisco 1996 against Vader at wrestlemania 19 in my hometown of Seattle against Chris Jericho, in 2003 And in a tag match with Randy Orton at Monday night raw in San Jose, California, January 2005
I see the comments about Bret being a cry-baby but I can sympathize w him. He was a loyal employee to Vince for over 12 years & had built up a solid character that the fans loved. Them guys just kept tearing him down a little at a time. It started at WM when they had Bret drop the title to Shawn & then Shawn would refuse to drop it back to him. Then they book Bret to win in the 4-way only to have him lose it almost right away. They never would've done that to Hulk! And think back to when HH refused to drop the belt to Bret after winning it from Yoko, Bret was being pushed aside then too. He never even wanted to leave WWF, Vince pushed him out. I'd be bitter too. And then all of the tragedies, it was one thing after another! Owen passing, Davey Boy passing, the concussion that forced him to retire, the stroke, then his wife leaving him..
Best STW in a LONG time!!
Bret hart took that (crybaby) role serious! Its been 25 yrs an hes still a crybaby now thats some dedication
Wasn't it Shawn crying in the locker room when Bret beat up McMahon?
@@fishhookism thats in brets book so that must be true huh 👌
@@detroitmade5169 Actually it was shown on the documentary.
@@fishhookism i seen the documentary(wrestling with shadows) an shawn was not crying 😆😆
@@detroitmade5169 Fact
I’ve been waiting for this episode forever, bittersweet knowing how my favorite era of HBK ends, but the lead up was so fun to watch.
I couldn't imagine having the weight of the whole company on your shoulders at that young age. Shawn never gave a bad performance. Even through everything he went through, he still is a legend
I think Bruce is lying when he says that Bret wouldn’t have been better in 14. I think Bret losing to Austin at 14 would have been awesome. Not only that Bret might not have got hurt. Also Austin loved Bret and definitely would have rather worked with him.
Austin completing his arc by winning the belt and finally pinning Bret with the cameras on would have been brilliant. They could have had Undertaker cost Shawn at Springfield In Your House as pitched to Bret by Vince and end up with Shawn vs Undertaker underneath Bret vs Austin, to get ready for Austin vs Shawn for the rest of the year. Although if you have Shawn beat Taker to set up Austin vs Shawn, there's no "streak." So swings and roundabouts.
But it's no surprise Bruce said that, he and Vince are still the heads of the HBK fan club. Bruce's pro Shawn Shawn bias still hasn't changed right from when they first started doing these podcasts
Bret would have obviously been better as he was a true main eventer and they had a history with Austin already
Shawn Michaels is my favorite wrestler of all time!
All the Tony Khan haters who claim " This would NEVER happen under Vince" should listen to this episode
Here's a fact. All wrestlers are trying to get themselves over at all times and it's for life. To say Bret is STILL crying over it is not a true statement. Do ALL wrestlers tend to hold grudges in their personal lives? Yes. Otherwise, we would not be a bit interested in shoot interviews. Do wrestlers understand this? Yes. Does drama get views. Yes. Bret has wholeheartedly forgave Shawn AND Vince. I know this as fact because I talked to Bret personally about his forgiving Hbk and Vince. Admittedly, I do not know him personally but my son and I spent some time with him in Chicago. He was at an event called Days of the dead. I thought it seemed weird until I had thought of the electric chair guy he had in his basement (shown in the Wrestling with Shadows documentary) and talked about his interest in the horror genre and how he didn't have that chair guy anymore but really liked it. Now, with all of that said, Bret has his faults. News flash. They all have their vices just like we do. Even someone like Cena probably has his vices too. I won't speculate. My point to my rant is this. What you see in tv obviously isn't real and I assume you know this. Wrestlers (especially back then) were like carnie grifters. Spend some time around Virgil and you get a great idea of what I'm talking about. Wrestlers are however usually very nice and gracious. Usually. I guess instead of saying all of this I could have just said, before casting stones and hating on one guy but holding this other guy in such high regard, just remember that they ALL have their shit. Just like us and probably you.
About an hour after chatting with Bret, we were passing him in the hallway and Bret stopped and scruffed my son's hair and told Colton that he was happy to meet him and hooed to see us again. He may have just been selling for us. It was a kind gesture either way. I would also like to say Shawn Michaels in my opinion was the total package. Shawn is the greatest of all time. He as well has changed for the better. Chris Jericho has said it repeatedly that in order to be great you have to a prick. He may not be a great example because of course he's kind of a prick. I truly believe he's right though. It's a cutthroat business. Rant over. Just maybe not take this stuff so seriously and troll who these people are in real life because they all have their faults. As do you. As do I. They are humans too.
Shawn Michaels versus Eddie Guerrero, 2001. It would’ve been beautiful to see the most talented wrestlers from Texas go out it in a program
As someone that lived on earth at one point dear reader know that wwf was amazing at one point and they were the best of times. Listening to a producer that was there retell these stories with back stage perspective and real life experience with these huge character's. Bruce and con rad are a awesome team and Shawn Michaels is the greatest performer in the history of 4 corners
Who is the greatest 6 corner performer AJ Styles?
Pretty wild to see Shawn and Rock share a stage on Raw: “He only hangs out with main eventers, he’s never been one…”
Starts at 1:55
So glad you guys are back. This is my favorite podcast , I missed Bruce
vince is a loyal guy and honor his word to pay shawn..... really bruce? where was that for Bret? more on
Man I've missed you guys!! Great show.. hope you have to time to do a few more in the near future..
Alright another brand new episode! Damnit Bruce you finally taking your pills!!!!
In regards to the "Sunny Days" comment that HBK made towards Bret, I believe that Bret Hart said in his book that Brian Pillman caught it & told Bret about it & the next day Bret's youngest son had asked him "Are you & Ms. Sunny messing around Dad?"
that’s crazy how his son caught it while most fans didn’t
The flashling lights put me into some kind of trance
50:59 I'm surprised Connie didn't ask what Pat Patterson thought about it
Didn't Shawn already have that 2million dollar inheritance from some fan by 95/96? He didn't even care if he got paid for maina 13 mainevent by 97
Rumor & innuendo
I'm glad Shawn had his second run, because it seems like 2/3 of this period is him either being legitimately hurt or potentially faking being hurt. And the other 1/3 is him being a cancer in the locker room. During this whole era, I was squarely on Bret's side and just found him obnoxious.
58:38 this is why I have no respect for Dave. He time and time again over the years only gives you half of the truth to fit a narrative he wants to tell. To sit here and say that it was HBK’s fault that in June 1996 they started losing to WCW in the ratings but before that when Brett was the champion it was fine, if you telling Mark today that wasn’t watching back then he would say “well the numbers are there in the numbers don’t lie”…. That’s true to a point until you tell the entire story and then Dave just looks like a Mark that hates HBK, and I’m not saying HBK was perfect by any means but Dave conveniently leaves out that there was something else very big that happened in June 201996 in the wrestling world. This is when Scott and Kevin walk out on nitro and start the NWL. If it had been the other way around and HBK was The champion for the first half of the year and then Brett won the belt at the end of April Dave would move heaven and earth to make sure everyone understood it wasn’t his fault that’s when the NWO angle started and by the way Brett would win the belt again in the next calendar year and guess what….. they still didn’t be WCW in the ratings because it had nothing to do with who the champion of the WWF is. Anyone that uses that argument during this time frame to make certain wrestlers look bad to fit a narrative is someone that only uses half truths.
Great show
Shawn had an ego he didn’t want to lose to Brett at WrestleMania like Vince had originally planned so both can be tied 1-1 a piece. Shawn was the one that was uncooperative and said no to a lot of Vince’s plans that Vince wanted to do with Brett and Shawn’s Feud and Rivalry. But because Shawn had a great working relationship with Vince and gained his trust so much Vince jut said ok and went a different direction every time Shawn said no to an idea or Storyline with Brett. Shawn wasn’t severely injured either that was an act.
still waiting for 2002 -2010. You were to do that couple years ago
Just be happy they are finally doing new shows again
@@ltldoc2011 not new
@Bryan Mack imagine that
I laughed my ass off at 1:19:00 with the Patterson impression
2:06:00 I love that Shawn got humbled big time over the next 4 years watching Austin take WWE to the F'ing moon!
If he never had gotten injured he would have been right there. Would have been interesting to see.
Shawn couldn't handle being below guys like Austin and Bret, even with him being Vince's favorite
Love your Pat Patterson impression 🤣\m/
Is the hell in the cell with taker and Shawn match of the year or is WM13 with Austin and Bret the match of the year. Watching both I still take 13. It was more important with the double turn
Wm 13 still is a shitty ppv with one Great match that's it
Austin/Bret was the better match and indeed in my top 3 wwe matches of all time. BUT... can't take nothing away from that cell match, also an A+ classic.
Austin v Bret hands down.
The fans don’t care about who drew ratings , no…. What they care about is the drama and shots taken that promo caused. So it’s not about what Shawn said , it’s about the fact he said it. Ppl tune in for drama and unpredictable content…. It caused drama.
Pritchard recently claimed that they negotiated with Hogan coming back as the leader of DX. Either the people at the top lost touch with reality, or Pritchard is trying to work us.
Love the ads literally every 5 minutes
To me the summer slam 97- royal rumble 98 was my favorite run of HBK’s career. He was the perfect heel and DX was the perfect faction for him. However, as much as I love Shawn, I’ve never understood WHY he got away with so much . He was never a HUGE draw , he never carried the company, he was not THE guy you went to see like taker , hogan , bret , or flair was . Mostly people just talk about “what a great worker “ he was . I know he was but there were plenty more that were just as good if not better that never got away with the stuff he pulled
Because vince allowed it and hbk knew he can get away with. Go watch vince on commentary when hbk comes out for his entrances during that time. Vince would get so excited and sound like a fan boy.
Kurt Angle is a perfect example to your point is he not?
I always put HBK on the same level of Bret Hart, they were the main events at one point but not quite the superstar such as Hogan, Austin or The Rock.
"when i say 'sure it was' i meant yes and no" 😝
Good episode I haven't seen one of these in a while
Opening with classic Guns n Roses. Awesome!
Whats up with the amount of adds here
Has anyone here ever had lunch with Pancho Villa?
Ryan Shamrock "slip" at the end lol
Lol bruce said steve liked shawn back then at 2:13:00 steve austin said in multiple interviews and even to his face he didnt like hbk back then
Conrad is right, when Brett started berating Vince McMahon, he was speaking to him as the owner of the WWF, I don't know what Bruce Prichard is talking about, he might as well had agreed with Conrad because he talkin out his butt with that answer 😂, just like when Kevin Nash lost the title to Brett and he came out on Monday night raw approach Vince McMahon with that work shoot, talkin about all the weight with all his his back because this one him to go corporate,
Shawn just didn't have the maturity to be a long running champion.
Funny that Bruce says it didn't have anything to do with the USA Network and it had to deal with the PTC but yeah his boss, Triple H goes on an interview talking about that and clearly admits it was the USA Network ................. COME ON BRUUUUUUUUUUUCE
It’s almost impossible to follow with all of the commercials
Maybe we could add some more commercial breaks????
Every 5 minutes is not enough!!!
Beyond Obnoxious
While maybe not same degree as Memphis riot but I was at a Nitro at Nassau Coliseum when Warrior was there, fans were just unruly and esp at the end of night we couldn’t even watch the main event because more concerned about being hit with trash by fans. Fast forward to WWF Raw at Coliseum night of Austin pouring concrete into Vince Corvette. Fans far better and spoke with some security that night and they said many told management they would never work a WCW event if they came back
remember the security guard at nassau coliseum who looked like scott hall ? he worked there for years
@@bb-gc2tx Been to a bunch at Nassau Coliseum both tv and house shows. Will never forget House show Austin v Michaels. Crowd reaction was unique at that time
There were Scottish guys defending the Alamo too.
Bret Hart didn’t do any business either and he didn’t have the NW fucking O on the other channel in the middle of his reign either
I'm sorry but anybody who thinks that primadonna, striptease Chippendale, flippy I should have been an acrobat in a circus thinks that Shawn Michaels is the greatest of all time is just absolutely delusional. I understand it's an opinion and a matter of perspective but Shawn Michaels did not know how to WRESTLE!! He didn't know an arm bar from a candy bar just watch his matches and see how uncomfortable he was when he had to put on wrestling holds and maneuvers. Was he athletic and was he able to do jumps and flips? Absolutely not denying that. But to be the greatest you need to also be able to carry the company on your back which he was unable to do so. He is a tag team specialist and he had to ask Gerald Briscoe how to perform wrestling holds and Maneuvers cuz he was afraid Bret Hart was going to kick his ass after the Montreal screw job. Great performer but not the GOAT!! Not by a long shot!! Anybody who thinks that Shawn Michaels is better than Bret Hart, Steve austin, Ric Flair, Undertaker and there are a million more names I want to mention but last but certainly not least and the man who truly did make wrestling what it is today Hulk Hogan, Shawn Michaels could be anybody's favorite but stop it with him saying he's the GOAT!!
HE CALLED BRUCE DADDY
I see Bruce's Pro Shawn bias is still as evident as ever. I thought that might have cooled off over the years of him doing this podcast but nope...he's still head of the HBK super fan club with Vince 😂😂
Bruce is dodgy as ever in regards to answering honestly. Show was a bit better when he wasn't working for them.
bret rules 🤣🤣🤣
People thought hogan was bad backstage, Shawn Michaels is the poster child for being a cry baby/ political backstage
Finally!
THE RUMBLE, not Shawn drew that Alamodome show..........brother
Shawn Michaels never drew a dime! 💵💰🤦👎...
Fans preferred him a a heel.
Shawn and Vince definitely had sexual relations.
I don't believe it
@@ronmichaels9206 listen to vince on commentary during 1996/1997 when hbk came out.
Where is rock 2000 you promised 2 years ago you guys promised?
Thats what im waiting on
Wish Shawn went to WCW in 97 and Bret stayed in the WWF.
Also everyone who argues that Shawn had no one to work with his calibre, forgets the kliqs mission was to hold guys down so the alone could control the main money in wwf.
Shawn didn`t draw as champ in 96.
K k k k. Kk. K k k k k. K k k.
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Kk k k k k k. K k k. K k k.
hbk fell flat on his face as champion the ratings sucked his awful reign almost put vince out of business
Many put it that HBK was carrying the whole company on his back and helped them survive through the bad times. Which was it?
@Bryan Mack there's so many factors/variables to how the business was/is doing financially at any time. It's lazy and illogical to put it down to just one performer.
Bret Hart, HBK, Sid, Taker, and Diesel were all champions during that time. *NONE* of them drew. It didn't matter who had the title. The company just wasn't good. It didn't matter who was champion. The WWF was stuck in the 80s in terms of their presentation and fans were turned off by that. WCW and ECW were more progressive in their approach.
Once the WWF changed and moved into the Attitude Era, then champions started drawing. In fact EVERYONE was over. Even lower mid-carders were relevant during those years. I think people need to look at the New Generation era from a more panoramic-perspective rather than tossing blame on one guy or another. You can't tell me that Diesel, Bret, or a healthy HBK, as champion wouldn't have been a top-draw in the Attitude Era. Heck, it was Diesel that really started the Attitude Era at the end of 1995 (quiet as it's kept.) Most people give the Austin 3:16 promo credit for lighting the fuse for the Attitude Era and the powder-keg finally exploded in late 1997. However, it was really Diesel that started it.
He cut a scathing worked-shoot promo on Vince after he lost the title to Bret at *Survivor Series* and basically became the Kevin Nash we saw in the nWo.
I just think the timing was wrong for those guys.
@@D2Kprime Exactly this. Very well put. I wholeheartedly agree.
That’s almost the equivalent to saying Roman Reigns isn’t a draw because RAW ratings were at record lows.
Shawn wasn't Championship material in 96 and 97. Farooq, Vader, Goldust and Mankind were all better candidates.
I don’t know which saying is more annoying by Conrad….. Rumor Inuindo or the politically correct one (pronouns pal)
Drugged up HBK > ANYBODY in history
DX really was garbage.
Chat me up