People doing what they love and selling their wares for more than $300 per pot to folk that are often NOT doing what they love...lol...nor making $500 per task. Oh, the irony is not lost on me. But unless Mr. Rocket Scientist turned Copper Pot maker had full academic rides...he probably has school loans.
As kids in urban India, even till the late 80s we used to see these vendors go door to door and do the tin coating for copper and brass utensils for a meagre sum. Slowly steel, aluminium and non stick cookware replaced that art and those vendors vanished. It is fascinating to see that process here once again.
Awesome job man. I was a metal spinner for 10 years made my share of pots and pans. It’s back breaking but rewarding work. You’ve got to number your pieces your stuff will be heirloom gifts
I’m a journeyman tinsmith and a journeyman sheet metal worker I love old metal work like this. I can do that sort of work all day long and never get tired. It is good to see others are keeping these almost lost arts alive.
I’m glad there is a comment from a metal metal worker. I hope you might take time to answer a couple questions. Would he have used a flux of some sort on the inside to get the tin to “stick”? The coating he put in the outside, ground marble. Is that a common scale/tarnish/oxide preventative? With good care of the pan, how long would the tin last? What care for a tinned pan is necessary? Thank you. Must be wonderful to have a real trade.
oddjobbobb Thanks for the comment. The method I know for tinning a pan no flux is used. You warm the pan/pot with acid in it. The acid takes away the oxidation on the surface of the copper. You dump the acid out and allow the heat to evaporate any left in the pan. Then you apply the tin it sticks all on its own. The atoms bond to form a type of alloy that behaves more like a ceramic than a metal. The pure tin portion of the lining rests on top and is held in place by the intermetallic “glue,” as the metallurgist describes it. This is why overheated tin doesn’t just slosh down the pan. A well taken care of piece of copper ware should last 10 to 20 years without needing to be re tinned. Of course depending on the amount of use it gets. Never preheat copper ware and don’t use scouring pads on them. In the old days they would clean them with sand but back then retaining was cheap and locally available. As for the outside with the ground marble I believe it is a personal choice. I usually only see raw copper in western copper ware. I would suggest you look up Tsuiki copper ware. It is Japanese hand hammered copper ware, they have many finishes that are beautiful and protective for the copper. I hope this answers your questions.
Humans are like ants in an anthill. If you die, someone else will pick up where you left off, and after some time pass by, no one will know you were ever here at all.
You know how in every tv shows,there’s like one highly educated,competent dude who is unhappy with his life or is alienated but by the end he’s doing something bizarre like catching dolphin or making chair.This dude is the epitome of that trope
A wonderful, feel good video. Handcrafted high quality masterpieces like they were made generations ago. Love the feeling of pride in his work he has. He will be leaving a solid legacy.
Beauty takes my breath away! To see hand made quality is truly a work of art. All the best to Duparquet Copper Cookware and Mr. Harmann, for he is truly a craftsman in the finest sense of the word. I enjoyed this video. I could feel the learning happening.
What a superb, informative, well-made programme. I love how he refers to them as “pieces”. Not frying pans, sauce pans, etc etc, or even “kitchen ware” in general. Because he’s absolutely right: so much care, experience, attention, history and so on, goes into making (or restoring) every item, that they are far more like, individual, bespoke “pieces” that have been created. And the part where the two guys work ‘in tandem’ on the eight-foot-long handled polishing process (yes, I’m aware that’s not the correct technical term for the process, but at least you know the bit I’m referring to!!) to achieve the perfect, finished item, is just awe-inspiring.Totally different to identical sauce pans that are churned off the end of a typical factory production line. Lastly, all the hand finishing, the polishing, using ever-finer methods (from stones, to paper, to ever finer paper, right through to buffing using polish and soft cloths). This part is not only, again, just so clever, with all the patience, practice, experience, and so on, involved. But so beautiful, and captivating to watch, with that lovely warm, dark honey/maple/sunset colour emerge on the ‘piece’, and become almost mirror-like, each with its own individual ‘patterns’ to the copper, making the piece unique…. I really did enjoy this episode, you may have noticed!
Made in America for you, the labor costs here are absurd. People want it but when they see the price they complain. Btw I don't disagree, I would never buy a $500 pan but I'm not one of those who complain about made overseas.
@George Owen That's why copper skillets/pots are lined with tin or stainless steel. Nobody is using raw copper for cooking. Did you even watch the video?
@@Thisisnotmyrealname8 show me a $25 pan that's going to be around hundreds of years later like the pans shown in this video are. Show me a 25 dollar pan that is worth restoring decades upon decades later, or is even ABLE to be restored decades later if someone wanted. Didn't think so.
This is great. I have a full set of old Dehillerin sauce pans, and they're a prized possession. But wow, I've never seen a modern-day illustration of the process of making pans of this caliber. How exciting that guys like you are carrying that tradition, and the pans are just gorgeous. Great work man.
The world needs to support people like this dude.. beautifully made to last cookware.. not just some machine pressed item with no grit and love put into it
Jam the Ooze Don’t you think it would be “off” for someone to give up a high paying engineering job to go work at something so specific as copper ware without having a lot of passion? And considering he knows what customer pieces he has around and where to get them, I would think that he is pretty involved with what goes on.
Started reading some of the comments and seems like the common theme is about the money, the high cost, who could afford these, etc. This is about tradition, artistry, the driving force from within that is pride, time-honored traditions and craftsmanship, and priceless to those that understand. Well done!!
Most people these days don't appreciate craftsmanship. Unfortunately we live in a throwaway society that cares more about the here and now than about things that last. We spend hundreds of dollars on a new phone we will replace in a year but won't spend money on something that will last generations.
It's not really a tradition. The tradition was to use hammers and shape the pot over an anvil. And by the way a pure copper pot is not healthy. Copper is a poison, and tin is not much better. Stainless steel or cast iron is a much better and cheaper way to go. No reason to hold on to the past if it is not useful or health ... or economical.
I am a Charcutier by trade. Paris late 1950’s. In my apprenticeship I use to have to polish the exterior of them with lemon juice and sand. This takes me back. I miss out on buying a good set of saucepans made from copper by a fraction of a minute. Ahhhh! Thank you for the memories
For good reason: no sane person would make copper pots like this, you would use a giant machine to press the copper into shape, after which you would finish it with a lathe if you were bad at designing the blanks, or not, if you were good.
The perfect pans! I can't afford them personally but, in many of the kitchens I've worked had old and new copper pans ! They are the best! Great work!!! Thank you
Because there's no point in making thins by hand, when machines can do a much better job, consistently. "Handmade" is a label used to jack up the price.
No. Ever hear of continuing education? As an electrician, I can tell you that everything from tech, to code, to methods, to theory changes. Get out for a couple of years and you are no longer up to date. So, no.
@@SubjectiveFunny I cant even figure out what would compel you to even comment. I am absolutely right, and am the life of the party. Thank you for the compliment.
The craft never died. In France we are still doing in since before the US have existed, Mauviel still supply most of the Michelin star restaurants all over the world. Actually the US is their main market.
The thing I really like about this guy is that he’s making the thing that he appreciates and wants to see in the world. A lot of people would say “stamped cookware is trash” and he leaves that part out.
@@sqlevolicious Uh, no. Hand-making a high quality product using traditional techniques is not scamming. Yes it's expensive, because you have to pay people to spend their time and energy doing something, and obviously this is a labor-intensive product. If you don't think it's worth it, fine. That's your opinion. But to call it a scam is offensive, insulting, and rude.
EVOLICIOUS - "Naive" people, who had enough brains to end up being able to spend a lot of money on cookware. Cause all people who buy something that you would not, must be naive.
It would melt on high heat, but only if you don't put anything in the pan for the heat to absorb into, like water or oil. That's why you should avoid dry heating or preheating copper cookware
The tin will melt at about 230 celcius. It is just 'solderd' to the copper and will wear out over time. So don't heat it that high, and you will be fine. Overheating won't couse a blob of molten tin at the bottom becouse the layer is so thin and it is adheard to the copper.
@@kristianjakubko1082 No, sure haven't. Honestly forgot all about until your message. Guess its not something I need or want after all since forgetting I want it lol
@Brent Smith I saw some, not this brand, other copper pans at Williams and Simona for like 2-4k..I was like screw that hahah..I heard they're hard to maintain too. I wanted them before as well, but I'm ok not having it anymore
Appreciate your dedication to artisanal work. The history of tin coating dates back to 1300 C.E. on metallic vessels in India. This process in India is known as "Kalai" and is derived from Sanskrit Word Kalya Lepa which means "white wash or tin".
My grandfather was a "tinker" with a wagon, who'd reline and repair cooking pots and fix household goods in Troy, NY in the latter half of the nineteenth century. I'm told he was considered valuable by the women in the town.
Up to 5 years ago, you could still all around Rwanda, repairing pots and other household items, even plastic ones, but these days people just throw it out and buy new items.
Wow! I love this type of pans. When i was kids early 70s, we have a frying pan and i always use it. Now its very hard to fine like this (in this video). I am not chef, but i like cooking. Thank you for this video
The World/Society has progressed because of people like him. Who take time to become master's at something and to have passion for it. Nothing but perfection can be the outcome
J L bruh exactly it’s so expensive, I understand and respect the love that goes into making them, i wanna buy the $150 egg pan 😂however I could buy a 20 ft pole of copper from Home Depot for $80 If me/anyone learned too do this can sell them for probably 3rd of the price and make a good buck. But irk that’s just me overthinking lol
Great Video ! Im living in France, near Villedieu-les-Poêles, where they made copper ware since before the 14th century, and I collect old pans and pots which I want to restore myself.... your video inspired me and I might finally start to do so. Does it take any particular skills or materials to melt and apply tin ?
I have seen nomadic people applying tin coating on old copper ware ; they first apply ammonium chloride on the surface to act as flux, then rub a piece of tin metal held with a piece of rag cloth on the red hot copper surface.
JF U and anyone else: Go to Chowhound and Instructables, register, and you'll get all the info you need on re-tinning. Then report back on how you're doing.
As anyone who has done soft soldering will tell you, it is not as easy as it looks! You need to get the surface really clean and grease free otherwise the tin will not stick. There are a number of methods.. the old fashioned way of doing this was to coat the pan with whiting and then heat it so that any grease gets adsorbed in the chalk, which you then wash off. Modern solvents will probably do a better job. You then need to add a flux which stops the metal oxidising as you heat it up, and assists the tin to alloy with the metal surface. The tradition material was "killed spirits" which was zinc chloride made by dropping zinc into hydrochloric acid until it stopped dissolving. It is a bit fierce and needs careful cleaning afterwards, but will usually always work. Bakers soldering fluid is a modern replacement for it. You then need to coat the inside of the pot with tin, melting it over heat and spreading the coat over the surface of the pot. Once you get the initial layer, then you need to build up layers to give the coating thickness otherwise it will wear through very quickly. The technique is to "wipe" the molten tin over the surface just as it it solidifying. Traditionally this used to be done with moleskin, but a thick cotton pad will suffice. The heat involved is not that high, but will give you a nasty burn if you get it wrong. There is no way of measuring the depth of the layer, it is just down to the judgement of the Tinker (the traditional name for this trade..) It's simple, but not easy....!
@You Wish Not really, but it is just a title in the end. Having a PhD in something like physics of some sort kind implies that you have a bachelor- and likely a master of engineering. In the bachelor program you specialize in a broad field, like electrical engineering or chemical engineering. A master is a specialization in perhaps electrical physics or nano technology. After this you may get a PhD. This is even a further specialization where the focus is not on learning the physics as much as it is on developing you skills as a scientist. You will mostly conduct your own research in a specific topic of your own choice. Beyond that you will take some courses and have some guidance. You will also hold classes for bachelor students. Geting PhD can be a lot of work. With a PhD it can be hard to find engineering jobs, since you obviously aim for a different career. It is likely that you are just getting an engineering job to have some money between research jobs. Most people want to hire engineers that will stay for a long time or with at least great experience in the field. You can also manage to get a PhD in something that sounds cool, but which is a dead en field. So it is quite an important choice you have to make. I am not sure about post graduate tests like that. It could be different in different countries so you are probably right.
Yeah, but copper cookware is bad for people's health; Copper and nickel, both toxic heavy metals, are found in the finish of copper cookware and can be leached into food. When heavy metals like these build up in the body the dangerous effects on the mind and body include mental disturbance and chronic illnesses.
It does, off his website: "1.) Do not "preheat" copper pots Since copper conducts heat so well, it heats up very quickly. Preheating and other "dry heat" tasks (like toasting rice) should be avoided. The sensitive tin lining can melt if overheated. Avoid "dry heat". ... 3.) Don't sear in copper pans The tin lining of a copper pan melts at only about 450 degrees F. To sear meats at high heat, choose cast iron, aluminum, or stainless steel instead of your copper cookware. Browning ground beef or a chicken breast is fine, but searing a filet mignon or a piece of tuna at high heat is not."
Great video. I was specifically looking for a video on how spatulas are made, but this was so much more entertaining and informative. The tin application looks fairly toxic. I like that Harmann is also in the business of restoring existing cookware. I'm interested to know what the white abrasive is. I know that jeweler's rouge (iron oxide) is used on softer metals like silver & gold, as well as for polishing glass lenses.
Okay a couple of things to mention here, #1 The Cast Iron Handle attached to a Copper pan was not "Your" idea, that came way back when your Grand Parent's had a twinkle in they're eye's. #2 The conductivity of cast iron is great for open flame and high temp cooking and also slow cooking situations. #3 Cast Iron may not look as pretty to the eye like Copper pans, but they do not require as much maintenance like Copper pans do, Copper pan's have to be "Polished" just like Silver........ I'll take the lower yield Cast Iron over a Copper pot any day, it will last Generations longer and have more applicable uses. But I do appreciate your dedication and quality workmanship and i hope you have great success in sales and renovations.
@Scooters Videos Not "if you want to". It´s obligatory for cookware. It is to prevent copper from reacting with foods. Copper cookware is a combination of the copper´s hight temperature contuctivity and tin´s chemical properties. Tin is not easily oxidized and resists corrosion Read more: www.lenntech.com/periodic/elements/sn.htm#ixzz6EwswYhEI
Damn I can imagine the Armageddon-esque scene where the government guys realize the most synced people on earth are these copper pan builders, and some general in a decorated suit enters the workshop to convince them the world needs them
No, the tin can still melt. What's changed about the tin during the lining process is the obvious- it is now bonded to the copper. But if overheated, tin can still melt when cooking. As long as you use medium heat, never heat empty, and don't let it boil dry, there will be no problems. You can often use a tin lined pan for decades before ever needing to reline, so it's not as big a problem as it seems
Working in some of the old grand hotels, I frequently came across these old pieces. They were absolutely beautiful to work with but sure gave you a work out when handling them. My favorite piece was a twenty quart consomme pot that we had and used at the Mayflower hotel in Washington.
Low for metals, tin melts at about 449 degrees f. You're not going to intentionally get close to that temperature cooking on your range. Especially with a large stock pot. Frying gets you in the 200-350 range depending on what you're doing and above that you're approaching the smoking point of a lot of your oils. You'd ruin a lot of modern coated cookware at the melting point of tin. The difference is that the copper can be saved and reclad relatively easier.
true i started by one , now i have 35 copper pan and im still looking to buy some more, their so nice and love the history of it , where have they been , who cooked inside, which type of restaurant...etc etc
Both y’all wrong. The tin won’t melt and acidic foods won’t rub the tin off. The whole point of the tin is so that it wouldn’t rub the copper off. Smh.
470 degrees is significantly hotter than most cooking. Water boils at 212 degrees for example. (Depending on elevation). Most recipes that specify a temperate are between 300 and 350, with a smaller number specifying temperatures of 425 or 450. granted, all of those recipes are for the oven, but I think you can safely assume that dishes cooked in a pan on top of the stove are not going to exceed those temperatures. If anything I'd assume they'd be lower. All that being said, these pans are not meant to be used without care. They're a luxury item and should be treated as such. If you need to sear something on the highest possible flame, then it would be more appropriate to get out a cast iron pan for that.
@@Zamerick13 yea I wouldn't use these in a steak but there are times where I forget the burner is on and you saw how quick it got to that temperature on a gas burner like mine since it's so conductive
@@goodguyhello he's literally using a gas burner like I have to melt the tin on and it heats up pretty fast so it could be a worry if you forget to turn your stove off.
@@nottheone582 Incorrect. The average gas flame stove top that burns blue flame, will have a flame temperature of >1000°C. What keeps pans of any material cool is the contents inside it cooking. So, if you let the pan boil dry for example. You'll have melted tin quite rapidly.
The tin lining is as durable as old teflon linings, so not durable at all. Re-tinning gets expensive. Probably why you see so many cheap copper pots at the Les Puces flea market in Paris. I have a friend who use to sell this stuff on eBay to Americans for 6x the price. If I was to go copper, Matfer makes some nice copper cookware with bonded stainless interiors. Very durable.
Yar0nix they’re not /that/ terrible when you consider its small-batch and highly labor intensive to make these. Plus, you buy one of these and it pretty much lasts forever. Is it better than a cheaper brand like all-clad or mauviel? Probably not, but in exchange for that you’re getting something unique.
@@yar0nix224 haaa ya ok i have every Lodge pan and lodge blacklock pan and lid they make plus the dutch ovens and the grill. I'd say you're a fool for assuming.
@@go2yanks ya craftsmanship from America is worth it to me. Buy it once and buy it right, or you'll just end up buying another when cheap breaks on ya.
@@user-oo6qk2fj9h My thoughts exactly. The copper is what makes the pan work well, and it had been used in that very way for thousands of years. This guy didn’t discover or invent it, he just joined the group of people already doing it. Being an aerospace engineer (which is not necessarily a rocket scientist, as that includes airplanes as well as spacecraft, and even then not all spacecraft are rockets) is arguably useless to him in making/restoring cookware. Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s interesting seeing how it’s made, and good for him for doing what makes him happy, but it’s a pot. It’s really not all that complicated.
An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure. Don't use unlined copper cookware for general cooking, especially when cooking acidic foods; save unlined copper for special-purpose use like beating bowls for egg whites and for sugar pots.
Cooper pans are so beautiful when new and have great thermal properties. But they are also so damn expensive and so hard to maintain. Oxidation marks are almost inevitable even on well maintained pans over time.
I love the passion that people who specialize in one thing have in their product
“Don't buy much but make sure that what you buy is good.” -Christian Dior
not hard to be passionate when the pans sell for 1600 bucks
@Xonoktor You're a peak noob
Isaac Pope 😂😂😂
@@verticalfracture most of them are arounf 500USD on their website but yea...I would be passionate too lol
When you finish the game and you go back to the first level with all your high level skills and equipment.
Isekai No Copper Pots?
This made me laugh out loud for real ... best comment!!!!
Why is this relatable
when u find out NASA is a psyop corp lmaoo
New Game +
This looks like a labor of love. We should all be so fortunate to find such fulfilling work.
These shorts are like a more informative, more personal “how it’s made”. I love em
So heartwarming to see that there are still people out there making a living of what they dearly love ❤️
So true ,
when youre selling a single pan for $325 + lol............
@@USNEM average $500 to be exact
People doing what they love and selling their wares for more than $300 per pot to folk that are often NOT doing what they love...lol...nor making $500 per task. Oh, the irony is not lost on me. But unless Mr. Rocket Scientist turned Copper Pot maker had full academic rides...he probably has school loans.
Because they can afford to
Let’s see where the coronavirus rabbit hole takes me today...ah yes, copper pans
Aint that the truth! Now the Mrs is mad at me for spending my corna check on 2 copper pans
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Cooper pan rocks
Copper pans and stress testing vices.
hahaha same here dude
As kids in urban India, even till the late 80s we used to see these vendors go door to door and do the tin coating for copper and brass utensils for a meagre sum. Slowly steel, aluminium and non stick cookware replaced that art and those vendors vanished. It is fascinating to see that process here once again.
the 'kalaiwala' !
dude, most of those vendors used tin contaminated with lead. it was risk for health.
tin contains lead my dude...
@@PreMRaGe Tin isn't an alloy. It doesn't "contain" lead.
@@rubicon24 I have you telling me it doesn’t and many google article telling me it does a simple google search will prove that you are indeed wrong
Awesome job man. I was a metal spinner for 10 years made my share of pots and pans. It’s back breaking but rewarding work. You’ve got to number your pieces your stuff will be heirloom gifts
I’m a journeyman tinsmith and a journeyman sheet metal worker I love old metal work like this. I can do that sort of work all day long and never get tired. It is good to see others are keeping these almost lost arts alive.
I admire people like you who can enjoy doing something like this, much respects!
respect
Philippe Demptos No, I do not. I was able to retire at 48, I just give my work away.
I’m glad there is a comment from a metal metal worker. I hope you might take time to answer a couple questions. Would he have used a flux of some sort on the inside to get the tin to “stick”? The coating he put in the outside, ground marble. Is that a common scale/tarnish/oxide preventative? With good care of the pan, how long would the tin last? What care for a tinned pan is necessary? Thank you. Must be wonderful to have a real trade.
oddjobbobb Thanks for the comment. The method I know for tinning a pan no flux is used. You warm the pan/pot with acid in it. The acid takes away the oxidation on the surface of the copper. You dump the acid out and allow the heat to evaporate any left in the pan. Then you apply the tin it sticks all on its own. The atoms bond to form a type of alloy that behaves more like a ceramic than a metal. The pure tin portion of the lining rests on top and is held in place by the intermetallic “glue,” as the metallurgist describes it. This is why overheated tin doesn’t just slosh down the pan. A well taken care of piece of copper ware should last 10 to 20 years without needing to be re tinned. Of course depending on the amount of use it gets. Never preheat copper ware and don’t use scouring pads on them. In the old days they would clean them with sand but back then retaining was cheap and locally available. As for the outside with the ground marble I believe it is a personal choice. I usually only see raw copper in western copper ware. I would suggest you look up Tsuiki copper ware. It is Japanese hand hammered copper ware, they have many finishes that are beautiful and protective for the copper. I hope this answers your questions.
Shoutouts to Fernando. That guy is probably irreplaceable.
That's why I'd train his son
Humans are like ants in an anthill. If you die, someone else will pick up where you left off, and after some time pass by, no one will know you were ever here at all.
@@the_hate_inside1085 Good thing we have enough intelligence to record our accomplishments and articulately pass down knowledge.
@@DoctorMcHerp
That's why Octopus dont rule the world.
Every artisanal aerospace engineer needs their Mexican
So awesome to see the old pans. Love seeing old crafts and methods being honored and brought back to our time to see.
This is one of the surprising inspirations via youtube. Thank you, great job and congratulation to keeping such a fine historical technology alive!
You know how in every tv shows,there’s like one highly educated,competent dude who is unhappy with his life or is alienated but by the end he’s doing something bizarre like catching dolphin or making chair.This dude is the epitome of that trope
its like their using their intelligence to just create a playground for themselves
@You Wish it's always sunny?
Basically describes me. I am academically more competent, but work with my hands. Designing and building kitchens et al.
@@stukkak1976 yeh I'm basically the complete opposite. But I adore sex with BBWs and manage to do it enough so I'm happy.
Well said!
A wonderful, feel good video.
Handcrafted high quality masterpieces like they were made generations ago.
Love the feeling of pride in his work he has.
He will be leaving a solid legacy.
Copper pots a poisonous, sooooooo..... None of what you just said
Beauty takes my breath away! To see hand made quality is truly a work of art. All the best to Duparquet Copper Cookware and Mr. Harmann, for he is truly a craftsman in the finest sense of the word.
I enjoyed this video. I could feel the learning happening.
I love when people are passionate about their craft
What a superb, informative, well-made programme. I love how he refers to them as “pieces”. Not frying pans, sauce pans, etc etc, or even “kitchen ware” in general. Because he’s absolutely right: so much care, experience, attention, history and so on, goes into making (or restoring) every item, that they are far more like, individual, bespoke “pieces” that have been created.
And the part where the two guys work ‘in tandem’ on the eight-foot-long handled polishing process (yes, I’m aware that’s not the correct technical term for the process, but at least you know the bit I’m referring to!!) to achieve the perfect, finished item, is just awe-inspiring.Totally different to identical sauce pans that are churned off the end of a typical factory production line. Lastly, all the hand finishing, the polishing, using ever-finer methods (from stones, to paper, to ever finer paper, right through to buffing using polish and soft cloths). This part is not only, again, just so clever, with all the patience, practice, experience, and so on, involved. But so beautiful, and captivating to watch, with that lovely warm, dark honey/maple/sunset colour emerge on the ‘piece’, and become almost mirror-like, each with its own individual ‘patterns’ to the copper, making the piece unique…. I really did enjoy this episode, you may have noticed!
*looks at product site and sees $500 saucepan
closes tab*
Yeah, that is what I though to. Quality and hand crafted products are worth the money in the long run.
SOLID SILVER 12 1/2" Saute sauce pan. $9,800.00.
Made in America for you, the labor costs here are absurd. People want it but when they see the price they complain.
Btw I don't disagree, I would never buy a $500 pan but I'm not one of those who complain about made overseas.
@George Owen That's why copper skillets/pots are lined with tin or stainless steel. Nobody is using raw copper for cooking. Did you even watch the video?
@@Thisisnotmyrealname8 show me a $25 pan that's going to be around hundreds of years later like the pans shown in this video are. Show me a 25 dollar pan that is worth restoring decades upon decades later, or is even ABLE to be restored decades later if someone wanted.
Didn't think so.
This is great. I have a full set of old Dehillerin sauce pans, and they're a prized possession. But wow, I've never seen a modern-day illustration of the process of making pans of this caliber. How exciting that guys like you are carrying that tradition, and the pans are just gorgeous. Great work man.
The world needs to support people like this dude.. beautifully made to last cookware.. not just some machine pressed item with no grit and love put into it
Fernando is thinking, "Quit telling me what to do, I been doing this for ten years".
Jam the Ooze - Ya think so, huh?
Or, he's just happy to have this pretty good job.
Jam the Ooze - "Can tell" that what? Speak plainly.
Jam the Ooze Don’t you think it would be “off” for someone to give up a high paying engineering job to go work at something so specific as copper ware without having a lot of passion? And considering he knows what customer pieces he has around and where to get them, I would think that he is pretty involved with what goes on.
Sunny Lin
As a person who's living is made working with steel, I really respect his pride in his work.
especially since his living isn't made by working with any steel, but copper. Do you respect him less?
@@Sugarsail1 what? Weirdo
@@Sugarsail1 what level of intoxication was involved with your comment?
I'm a Union Boilermaker and I agree.
Does he ever say “its not rocket science” when making copper cookware lol
Omg I laughed so hard it this comment 😂
leo john - Anytime I see someone doing something complicated or if it involves math I like to say, "Cmon guys, this is BASIC rocket science."
thank you, I can make my own now, after making all the tools, how cool, the work will be as fun as the completion...
It's literally not. Some materials science and mech engineering involved, but nothing too heavy.
It's not rocket surgury
Jim Hamann's a great guy with a great business, right here in Rhode Island!
Its always awesome finding someone with a passion for copper. It's such a beautiful metal and so useful.
Started reading some of the comments and seems like the common theme is about the money, the high cost, who could afford these, etc.
This is about tradition, artistry, the driving force from within that is pride, time-honored traditions and craftsmanship, and priceless to those that understand.
Well done!!
Most people these days don't appreciate craftsmanship. Unfortunately we live in a throwaway society that cares more about the here and now than about things that last. We spend hundreds of dollars on a new phone we will replace in a year but won't spend money on something that will last generations.
How many times have you also bought a $50 pan only to buy another one 6 months later or 2 years later these are lifelong pans you treat them well
Priceless cuz its America.
@@josiahtheblacksmith467 Exactly, very well said
It's not really a tradition. The tradition was to use hammers and shape the pot over an anvil. And by the way a pure copper pot is not healthy. Copper is a poison, and tin is not much better. Stainless steel or cast iron is a much better and cheaper way to go. No reason to hold on to the past if it is not useful or health ... or economical.
I am a Charcutier by trade. Paris late 1950’s.
In my apprenticeship I use to have to polish the exterior of them with lemon juice and sand. This takes me back. I miss out on buying a good set of saucepans made from copper by a fraction of a minute. Ahhhh!
Thank you for the memories
Mauviel and De Buyer still make them in France. Very expensive of course, but the tradition is still here.
As a Union Boilermaker I applaud this man and his craftsmanship. There aren't a lot of people like this left nowadays.
For good reason: no sane person would make copper pots like this, you would use a giant machine to press the copper into shape, after which you would finish it with a lathe if you were bad at designing the blanks, or not, if you were good.
@@TheFanatical1 Meh
Watching this on mute during my COVID zoom meetings. Then will rewatch with sound. Love this.
The perfect pans!
I can't afford them personally but, in many of the kitchens I've worked had old and new copper pans ! They are the best!
Great work!!!
Thank you
This is passion.
Glad to see it's still around.
Glad to see that he's keeping the art and legacy alive.
In a time when very few things are made by hand with this level of passion and artisanship, kudos to this Gentleman.
Because there's no point in making thins by hand, when machines can do a much better job, consistently. "Handmade" is a label used to jack up the price.
I really enjoyed seeing your process and your products. Old school...bravo!
You’re never a former rocket scientist, you’re always a rocket scientist
No.
Ever hear of continuing education?
As an electrician, I can tell you that everything from tech, to code, to methods, to theory changes.
Get out for a couple of years and you are no longer up to date. So, no.
@@thetroof5525 you must be a load of fun at parties...
@@SubjectiveFunny hes right!
@@SubjectiveFunny I cant even figure out what would compel you to even comment. I am absolutely right, and am the life of the party.
Thank you for the compliment.
@@thetroof5525 bro his comment is a fkin joke... the fact you take is seriously makes you look like a pompous idiot.. wtf is wrong with you? WHOOSH
Thanks 4 the love at your work, JIM. Also Eater 4 editing this video. GREAT
Pretty cool, it's rare anyone takes such pride in their craft in this totally mechanized world anymore ... well done Sir!
I applaud you Sir. It's nice to see a true artisan rebirthing a craft that would have otherwise been long forgotten!
The craft never died. In France we are still doing in since before the US have existed, Mauviel still supply most of the Michelin star restaurants all over the world. Actually the US is their main market.
This is straight out of an anime. A grand master who has retracted back to a simple living, teaching the protagonist secret techniques.
weeb
@@WojciechP915 Are you my senpai?
@@tangbein i am searching for my senpai san sama
Fernando no Ja, 10/10 will watch the anime with our man Fernando as a student of a grand master Pan maker.
Related, there's a manga about coppersmith, Cuprum no Hanayome. Romance btw
The fact you re registrered the tm is asstounding to me. That is passion!
The thing I really like about this guy is that he’s making the thing that he appreciates and wants to see in the world. A lot of people would say “stamped cookware is trash” and he leaves that part out.
he's scamming naive people with gimmicks. Nothing more, nothing less.
@@sqlevolicious Uh, no. Hand-making a high quality product using traditional techniques is not scamming. Yes it's expensive, because you have to pay people to spend their time and energy doing something, and obviously this is a labor-intensive product. If you don't think it's worth it, fine. That's your opinion. But to call it a scam is offensive, insulting, and rude.
EVOLICIOUS - "Naive" people, who had enough brains to end up being able to spend a lot of money on cookware. Cause all people who buy something that you would not, must be naive.
Adam H - Amen.
So if tin has such a low melting point, does that not cause issues with the lining melting off if someone uses it at high heat?
maybe the tin alloys with the copper raising the overall melting point? or the tin evenly distributes heat to copper to avoid melting.
You are correct. On their website they explain to not use with dry heat, e.g. browning rice, or for searing meats. duparquet.com/coppercare
It would melt on high heat, but only if you don't put anything in the pan for the heat to absorb into, like water or oil. That's why you should avoid dry heating or preheating copper cookware
Comrade Cat he’s not talking about the copper. He’s talking about the tin lining.
The tin will melt at about 230 celcius. It is just 'solderd' to the copper and will wear out over time. So don't heat it that high, and you will be fine. Overheating won't couse a blob of molten tin at the bottom becouse the layer is so thin and it is adheard to the copper.
I really hope you, your workers and business survive these current times of COVID-19. I will be purchasing your pans soon. Best wishes to all
Jesus you must be rich!!! Or.... you haven't seen the prices yet 🤣🤣🤣
Already bought?
@@kristianjakubko1082 No, sure haven't. Honestly forgot all about until your message. Guess its not something I need or want after all since forgetting I want it lol
@@Onix.556 for 400€ I definitelly wouldn't go for it xd
@@kristianjakubko1082 100% agree. Didnt look into it at all
Wow, what a great story. Craftsmanship lives on !!
A link to this gentleman's website, in the description, would be greatly appreciated.
duparquet.com/
@@janherman1951 thanks .. did u see the silver offerings wow just beautiful thats going in my dream kitchen for sure
@Brent Smith I saw some, not this brand, other copper pans at Williams and Simona for like 2-4k..I was like screw that hahah..I heard they're hard to maintain too. I wanted them before as well, but I'm ok not having it anymore
Im amazed that in the age of google this question still needs to be asked.
Gazzlo you can't afford it.
Both you & Fernando are AMAZING! Great job. I'm sure the rest of your staff are great as well. Superior job.
Appreciate your dedication to artisanal work. The history of tin coating dates back to 1300 C.E. on metallic vessels in India. This process in India is known as "Kalai" and is derived from Sanskrit Word Kalya Lepa which means "white wash or tin".
These pieces look like they could last several generations. Beautiful, functional and robust.
This video is absolutely beautiful, so much heritage and history.
Totally wholesome ❤️
I would love to buy your pans one day!
Best of luck
i guess this sales video worked on you then.
UA-cam Algorithm: You want to watch this.
Me, a lemming: Ok.
You're only a lemming if you watch everything the algorithm throws at you.
@@THExRISER that's what they want you think man
@@ptfsndsw7028 Elaborate.
*NOT a UA-cam Algorithm BUT **_in reality a UA-cam advert_*
Just WOW!!!!! The love of the craft really comes through.
Next time do a vid with how a former copper pots maker became the best rocket scientist.
Quedaqh lmfao!
never happened
In a way many rocket scientists are in a way copper pot maker. Many rocket engines are literally a fancier copper pot.
@@2darkdragon go and see properly you douch
My grandfather was a "tinker" with a wagon, who'd reline and repair cooking pots and fix household goods in Troy, NY in the latter half of the nineteenth century. I'm told he was considered valuable by the women in the town.
I'm a handyman too but it doesn't seem to be women's interest any more these days...
We our a throw away society nothing in regular stores is built to last like it used to be.
Sure you do not have out-of-wedlock siblings? Seems like a job that would be a WAP galore
@@Arek_R. f
Up to 5 years ago, you could still all around Rwanda, repairing pots and other household items, even plastic ones, but these days people just throw it out and buy new items.
Wow! I love this type of pans. When i was kids early 70s, we have a frying pan and i always use it. Now its very hard to fine like this (in this video). I am not chef, but i like cooking. Thank you for this video
As a metallurgist, I truly appreciate the great skill and knowledge shown in this video. Cheers!
Lockdown isn't all bad, i'm learning so much on a daily level. Incredible
The World/Society has progressed because of people like him. Who take time to become master's at something and to have passion for it. Nothing but perfection can be the outcome
mass produced pans can have the same affect on the food, maybe even better. this is not something that could be made better with hand
Just realized I watched a 11 minute video of a guy talking about pans
Find your niche in life man
I realised after 4.30 minutes this is waste of my time.
Nah that was awesome
You watched an artisan giving you the tiniest glimpse into a rich and deep field of specialist manufacturing.
Beautiful storytelling here, I’ve been watching all the Eater videos during my work breaks.
Geeking out on cooper pans while drunk is honestly the best past time in COVID-19
This looks like a very satisfying job
If I had those pans I'd still be making kraft mac & cheese.
J L bruh exactly it’s so expensive, I understand and respect the love that goes into making them, i wanna buy the $150 egg pan 😂however I could buy a 20 ft pole of copper from Home Depot for $80 If me/anyone learned too do this can sell them for probably 3rd of the price and make a good buck. But irk that’s just me overthinking lol
Hahahaha
Ahh, but it’d be mac & cheese from a wonderful copper pan!
Jams and jellies. Caramel, Creme Brule, Rissoto... just to name a few.
You a mad man making it in a pan
I can’t imagine putting my first scratch on that art. Beautiful work!
Great Video !
Im living in France, near Villedieu-les-Poêles, where they made copper ware since before the 14th century, and I collect old pans and pots which I want to restore myself.... your video inspired me and I might finally start to do so.
Does it take any particular skills or materials to melt and apply tin ?
I have seen nomadic people applying tin coating on old copper ware ; they first apply ammonium chloride on the surface to act as flux, then rub a piece of tin metal held with a piece of rag cloth on the red hot copper surface.
JF U and anyone else: Go to Chowhound and Instructables, register, and you'll get all the info you need on re-tinning. Then report back on how you're doing.
As anyone who has done soft soldering will tell you, it is not as easy as it looks! You need to get the surface really clean and grease free otherwise the tin will not stick. There are a number of methods.. the old fashioned way of doing this was to coat the pan with whiting and then heat it so that any grease gets adsorbed in the chalk, which you then wash off. Modern solvents will probably do a better job. You then need to add a flux which stops the metal oxidising as you heat it up, and assists the tin to alloy with the metal surface. The tradition material was "killed spirits" which was zinc chloride made by dropping zinc into hydrochloric acid until it stopped dissolving. It is a bit fierce and needs careful cleaning afterwards, but will usually always work. Bakers soldering fluid is a modern replacement for it.
You then need to coat the inside of the pot with tin, melting it over heat and spreading the coat over the surface of the pot. Once you get the initial layer, then you need to build up layers to give the coating thickness otherwise it will wear through very quickly. The technique is to "wipe" the molten tin over the surface just as it it solidifying. Traditionally this used to be done with moleskin, but a thick cotton pad will suffice. The heat involved is not that high, but will give you a nasty burn if you get it wrong. There is no way of measuring the depth of the layer, it is just down to the judgement of the Tinker (the traditional name for this trade..)
It's simple, but not easy....!
you can tell that even him doesn’t believe that he’s a
“ real life rocket scientist “ 😂 2:24
how he slowly lowered his gaze haha
@@gentlegoat6663 right LMAO
Well technically he isn't. He is a rocket engineer. To be an official scientist he needs to get a PhD in rocket science.
@You Wish
You get a bachelor of engineering and a master of engineering. But you become a doctor in science, philosophy or mathematics.
@You Wish
Not really, but it is just a title in the end.
Having a PhD in something like physics of some sort kind implies that you have a bachelor- and likely a master of engineering.
In the bachelor program you specialize in a broad field, like electrical engineering or chemical engineering.
A master is a specialization in perhaps electrical physics or nano technology.
After this you may get a PhD. This is even a further specialization where the focus is not on learning the physics as much as it is on developing you skills as a scientist. You will mostly conduct your own research in a specific topic of your own choice. Beyond that you will take some courses and have some guidance. You will also hold classes for bachelor students.
Geting PhD can be a lot of work.
With a PhD it can be hard to find engineering jobs, since you obviously aim for a different career. It is likely that you are just getting an engineering job to have some money between research jobs. Most people want to hire engineers that will stay for a long time or with at least great experience in the field.
You can also manage to get a PhD in something that sounds cool, but which is a dead en field. So it is quite an important choice you have to make.
I am not sure about post graduate tests like that. It could be different in different countries so you are probably right.
So nice to know you and your business. Great people
I really like his passion for what he's doing.
Yeah, but copper cookware is bad for people's health; Copper and nickel, both toxic heavy metals, are found in the finish of copper cookware and can be leached into food. When heavy metals like these build up in the body the dangerous effects on the mind and body include mental disturbance and chronic illnesses.
I think copper pans are beautiful😍Omg, such amazing history about these pans. They are going to be in Museums in the future😊
Great job, Sir...
One question, does the tin not melt when we use the pan with no liquid inside ? Thank you.
It does, off his website:
"1.) Do not "preheat" copper pots
Since copper conducts heat so well, it heats up very quickly. Preheating and other "dry heat" tasks (like toasting rice) should be avoided. The sensitive tin lining can melt if overheated. Avoid "dry heat".
...
3.) Don't sear in copper pans
The tin lining of a copper pan melts at only about 450 degrees F. To sear meats at high heat, choose cast iron, aluminum, or stainless steel instead of your copper cookware. Browning ground beef or a chicken breast is fine, but searing a filet mignon or a piece of tuna at high heat is not."
What a beautiful work,, just love your creativity.... Go ahead
I feel like Fernando pops out 30 of those pans an hour
I feel like Fernando does most of the pan making.
Doubtful.
@@FU7IM7CANADIAN Why?
Sometimes I wish I were a craftsmen. Damn he's good.
that pink cloth(good name for a rock band)
SubcarpatiRO what?
@@tsikada His bandana, I have one like it.
Thought it was a lady at first, kind of sad it isn't.
@@whiqeddik7615 there's no difference if you do it from behind. Incase you're interesting.
@@gaecynt4687 lol, not the point but okay
wonderful passion and skill.
i very much enjoyed watching
Great video. I was specifically looking for a video on how spatulas are made, but this was so much more entertaining and informative. The tin application looks fairly toxic. I like that Harmann is also in the business of restoring existing cookware. I'm interested to know what the white abrasive is. I know that jeweler's rouge (iron oxide) is used on softer metals like silver & gold, as well as for polishing glass lenses.
White Tripoli. Its pretty standard for buffing wheels.
Okay a couple of things to mention here, #1 The Cast Iron Handle attached to a Copper pan was not "Your" idea, that came way back when your Grand Parent's had a twinkle in they're eye's. #2 The conductivity of cast iron is great for open flame and high temp cooking and also slow cooking situations. #3 Cast Iron may not look as pretty to the eye like Copper pans, but they do not require as much maintenance like Copper pans do, Copper pan's have to be "Polished" just like Silver........
I'll take the lower yield Cast Iron over a Copper pot any day, it will last Generations longer and have more applicable uses.
But I do appreciate your dedication and quality workmanship and i hope you have great success in sales and renovations.
would be nice if they also included how he brings back old copper pots and breathing life back into it
Hey, I like your profile. What's the source?
Did you watch the whole video. He did show the process.
@@justahumanwithamask4089 its an illustration made by pd
@Scooters Videos Not "if you want to". It´s obligatory for cookware. It is to prevent copper from reacting with foods. Copper cookware is a combination of the copper´s hight temperature contuctivity and tin´s chemical properties. Tin is not easily oxidized and resists corrosion
Read more: www.lenntech.com/periodic/elements/sn.htm#ixzz6EwswYhEI
CodeForFun - He didn't actually show restoring any old ones, sorry.
Absolutely gorgeous..nicely done sir!
In the next Pacific Rim movie, these two would “Drift” so well together 😂
Syed Affendy i was thinking of pacific rim too.
Kacey K great minds think alike 🙏🏼
Damn I can imagine the Armageddon-esque scene where the government guys realize the most synced people on earth are these copper pan builders, and some general in a decorated suit enters the workshop to convince them the world needs them
@@BenRangel would be the coolest spin off
New Pacific rim sucked
Does the tin somehow change its properties after the lining process, so it doesn't melt when cooking?
No, the tin can still melt. What's changed about the tin during the lining process is the obvious- it is now bonded to the copper. But if overheated, tin can still melt when cooking. As long as you use medium heat, never heat empty, and don't let it boil dry, there will be no problems. You can often use a tin lined pan for decades before ever needing to reline, so it's not as big a problem as it seems
Working in some of the old grand hotels, I frequently came across these old pieces. They were absolutely beautiful to work with but sure gave you a work out when handling them. My favorite piece was a twenty quart consomme pot that we had and used at the Mayflower hotel in Washington.
Just got all my pots back! Thanks Jim!
Does the tin form an alloy with copper?
Because, it would Leach even faster and mix with food as it melts at very low temp.
I wonder the same thing...
@@ThorS.W go to the website and get the all silver offering or the silver lined offering
No, it is just a coating that has to be replaced from time to time.
Low for metals, tin melts at about 449 degrees f. You're not going to intentionally get close to that temperature cooking on your range. Especially with a large stock pot. Frying gets you in the 200-350 range depending on what you're doing and above that you're approaching the smoking point of a lot of your oils. You'd ruin a lot of modern coated cookware at the melting point of tin. The difference is that the copper can be saved and reclad relatively easier.
You don't get an alloy, the metals aren't mixed together and the copper is unlikely to melt on a stove.
This guy is a rocket scientist who turned into an artist/historian. Crazy where life ends up taking you 😄
Not really thus guy can be whatever he wants.
@Dave Chappelle he has a master's degree, you mouth breather.
Love this, I currently own about 30 copper pots/pans, it's an illness!
Chris Long - How do you feel about the ones that are lined with stainless steel?
true i started by one , now i have 35 copper pan and im still looking to buy some more, their so nice and love the history of it , where have they been , who cooked inside, which type of restaurant...etc etc
Food Food - Good to have a passion in Life, that's how I feel
Samuel Luria so true how many do you have? , and its so beautiful in the kitchen
Food Food - ONLY TWO😭
Amazing story and work.
What are these pans used for if you're just gonna melt the tin off whenever u use it on a stove?
Niga its used for cooking. He said acidic foods will rub the tin off if left for a long period of time.
Both y’all wrong. The tin won’t melt and acidic foods won’t rub the tin off. The whole point of the tin is so that it wouldn’t rub the copper off. Smh.
470 degrees is significantly hotter than most cooking. Water boils at 212 degrees for example. (Depending on elevation). Most recipes that specify a temperate are between 300 and 350, with a smaller number specifying temperatures of 425 or 450. granted, all of those recipes are for the oven, but I think you can safely assume that dishes cooked in a pan on top of the stove are not going to exceed those temperatures. If anything I'd assume they'd be lower.
All that being said, these pans are not meant to be used without care. They're a luxury item and should be treated as such. If you need to sear something on the highest possible flame, then it would be more appropriate to get out a cast iron pan for that.
@@Zamerick13 yea I wouldn't use these in a steak but there are times where I forget the burner is on and you saw how quick it got to that temperature on a gas burner like mine since it's so conductive
@@goodguyhello he's literally using a gas burner like I have to melt the tin on and it heats up pretty fast so it could be a worry if you forget to turn your stove off.
fascinating, I would watch a full 2 hours documentary about that.
This was fantastic!
Jim re-tinned one of our vintage pans, and he did amazing work! Highly recommend his firm!
Anyone else immediately want one for no apparent reason?
So if the tin melts at such a low temp, wouldn't that be a problem when cooking at high temps?
most conventional cooktops wont get that hot. not oven safe above 425 however
@@nottheone582 Incorrect. The average gas flame stove top that burns blue flame, will have a flame temperature of >1000°C.
What keeps pans of any material cool is the contents inside it cooking. So, if you let the pan boil dry for example. You'll have melted tin quite rapidly.
The tin lining is as durable as old teflon linings, so not durable at all. Re-tinning gets expensive. Probably why you see so many cheap copper pots at the Les Puces flea market in Paris. I have a friend who use to sell this stuff on eBay to Americans for 6x the price. If I was to go copper, Matfer makes some nice copper cookware with bonded stainless interiors. Very durable.
Yep. You don't use tin lined cookware in high heat applications, like searing, etc. You also can't dry preheat it. It's a PITA, to be honest.
Seems like a solid guy, I'd buy a pan from him.
you couldnt afford one
Yar0nix they’re not /that/ terrible when you consider its small-batch and highly labor intensive to make these. Plus, you buy one of these and it pretty much lasts forever. Is it better than a cheaper brand like all-clad or mauviel? Probably not, but in exchange for that you’re getting something unique.
$650 for a 12.5 inch Saute pan.
@@yar0nix224 haaa ya ok i have every Lodge pan and lodge blacklock pan and lid they make plus the dutch ovens and the grill. I'd say you're a fool for assuming.
@@go2yanks ya craftsmanship from America is worth it to me. Buy it once and buy it right, or you'll just end up buying another when cheap breaks on ya.
Thank God for highly skilled qualified men helping us to be more comfortable in daily living. God bless all of you and your family.
If tin has such a low boiling point, im assuming you can't put these pans in the oven?
Only in temps below 325F.
grocerylist more like 450
Right? I'm sticking with steel and cast iron.
“It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to make a good pan!”
Yes it does
It really doesn’t, everything that he did could be accomplished by a well trained machinist.
@@user-oo6qk2fj9h My thoughts exactly. The copper is what makes the pan work well, and it had been used in that very way for thousands of years. This guy didn’t discover or invent it, he just joined the group of people already doing it. Being an aerospace engineer (which is not necessarily a rocket scientist, as that includes airplanes as well as spacecraft, and even then not all spacecraft are rockets) is arguably useless to him in making/restoring cookware.
Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s interesting seeing how it’s made, and good for him for doing what makes him happy, but it’s a pot. It’s really not all that complicated.
And you are just the type of idiot he's looking for.
why then is he restoring pans from before rockets were a thing
Nice! You should also make a video how to reverse copper toxicity in the body.
An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure. Don't use unlined copper cookware for general cooking, especially when cooking acidic foods; save unlined copper for special-purpose use like beating bowls for egg whites and for sugar pots.
Ahhh what a great pice of documentary!
Thanks to all of you stay behind that hidden gem.
well after burning up a few spacecrafts I decided cooking things was in my destiny.
Cooper pans are so beautiful when new and have great thermal properties. But they are also so damn expensive and so hard to maintain. Oxidation marks are almost inevitable even on well maintained pans over time.