I believe Dr. Grande may be the only person on the planet to utter "unparalleled wisdom" while referring to Kim Kardashian, and showed "unparalleled restraint" in keeping a straight face while doing so.
I've always been torn by this story. As children/teens who experienced awful things we couldn't escape from, my siblings and I fantasized about revenge! Made up elaborate stories of how 'they'd' pay. We couldn't protect ourselves and others didn't step in. We did leave home early... but the trauma never ended the way people assume it does. Like, now you're out you're free! The abusers live on to believe and convince others of their innocence, and sometimes abuse others, often they remain in your lives continuing to gaslight and torment. There is NO punishment for them. I know the power of wanting to wipe that smug smile off their face. When I first heard about the shootings (before the abuse allegations came out) I thought; those boys were very angry at their parents and it takes a certain type of horrendous upbringing to make children that angry.
Yes, it certainly does. I had a plan to get rid of my mother coz I couldn't take the abuse anymore. A solid plan. Ahhhh..... Abuse changes you. Forever. You don't just get better coz 12 ppl say you're innocent or guilty. Those brothers actions will forever be ruled by their emotions. As for Kim K. Well, Kim. They can go free, but they have to live with you. You still want them free?????!!!!
She hasn't done much lately (got married, had another kid, high profile romance) so this puts her back in the public eye and part of the current Menendez zeitgeist.
@@andyvanm1 Too many people saying the same damn thing about the "victims" for it to be just made up, don't you think? No way that man was innocent of sexual abuse - and if he was guilty, so was his wife, because everyone and their horse seems to have known about it, no way that "mother" didn't.
@@andreaplavkova1037 and OJ was innocent crowd say the same crap ... those spoiled bastards want out of prison ...and will say anything to get it. There was a reason why women weren't allowed on juries years ago and your reasoning proves it today.
Dr Grande’s wife, nudging him in his sleep: “Honey! Wake up! You’re mumbling in your sleep again. ‘I’m not diagnosing anyone. This is only my opinion…’”
why/how is it deceptive and sad for Dr. Grande to have a wife? Which he does, he's introduced her. But your comment is bizarre and probably meant in an ugly way. What makes people like you make such strange and unpleasant comments when they could just keep scrolling and not show the world that they have issues! Geez!!! You sound like you're jealous somehow? Fame envy maybe? Sour grapes for sure though!
@@IntegrityMeansAllwow my comment didn't get posted because I called you out on what a bizarre comment you made yet utube will post your remark being derogatory to Dr. Grande in a most grievous manner. Anyway, you sound jealous and or ignorant . Just saying.
I heard a slightly different story to Dr Grande. I read the therapist went directly to police himself after Eric threatened to kill him. Eric's own words, his threats were the catalyst and legal and morally right thing to do in that situation. The therapist didn't break the privacy and confidentiality of the Dr and patient. Nor did he go to the police... He held his oath and silence. For quite a while. Until Eric MADE him break it due to a very credible threat to his life. Ironically it was both brothers own words that got them caught 😅 Lyle's original confession. Erics threat saying he "has" to kill him to save them both. Eric literally broke the confidentiality agreement himself, basically forcing the therapist to speak to the cops. .
Is a hypocrisy when we give value to things like battled spouse syndrome, but we think a teenager that grew up in abuse should be mature enough to know a better way out.
Thank you! This is exactly what I was thinking. Why isn't there a battered child syndrome. Also, maybe they felt they deserved to spend all the money as compensation for years of horrific abuse.
@peapod6747 there is. They're calling it "Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder" or cPTSD. As I understand it (I'm a RN w/ practice in mental health), the difference between the two being that PTSD is often caused by a single traumatic event whereas cPTSD comes from traumatic events occurring in the person's life over a period of time. Like childhood. I believe the term "generational trauma" is worth researching as well. Tim Fletcher, LMHC, out of Canada does a really good job describing both of these concepts.
My best friend growing up and her little brother were SA'd by their stepdad for years. BFF grew up to be infertile because of what he did to her. Little brother killed himself at age 17 to escape it. Step dad went on to reoffend and ruin multiple more lives until he finally, thankfully died of a heart attack in his late 50s. "Society" might not be okay with children killing their parents, regardless of what monstrous things the parents are doing to them, and then there's the rest of us. Put me on the jury.
Thank you from every single word! I think the same!! My friend was SA'd by her drug addict mum who pimp her own daighter to get drugs. Mother had been in the grave for years. She was killed by overdose but if my friend would had takek a law to her own hands I wouldn't have been angry.
The problem is they are not alive thanks to the brothers to give their side of it in a trial of SA. By unaliving their parents instead of going to police to accuse them of SA and leaving the home they unalived them. This will always and forever leave many people with the idea that it was a cover story, and rightly so. If they wanted retribution the way forward was gather evidence, have a place to go, and take it to court.
I do not doubt that the motive for these murders was revenge, but revenge for what exactly is the question. A higher range of ACEs, such as parental divorce, economic hardship, emotional abuse, physical abuse, and sexual abuse; neglect, etc., are correlated to at least 5 of the top 10 leading causes of early death in adulthood. In my case, my step parents were stable forces in the lives of my narcissistic, socioeconomically high-functioning, yet, Cluster B personality disordered parents. Unfortunately, out of guilt over the divorce of his first wife, the mother of his three sons, my step-dad spoiled my step-brothers rotten. For the most part, my step-brothers, who were not sexually abused but did have an alcoholic mother, ended up just like the Menendez brothers, my half-siblings reflected the more or less good to bad values of their parents, and my full siblings and I had to look perfect in comparison, which placed targets on our backs.
I disagree that being repeatedly sexually abused by a parent from a young age has nothing to do with a child's' development, actions in response, up to and including murder. A child learns what it lives. If indeed their father repeatedly sexually and violently abused them, a person who's supposed to protect them - not have intercourse with them - how is that not mitigating? And if their mother knew and did nothing to stop it - then she'd be guilty of child abuse as well allowing it to happen.
Because there is no real solid proof that it happened. But there is proof that their attorney coached them. There is proof that the attorney they hired specialized in these types of cases where murder was excused because they were allegedly abused. Even if Jose did do it it doesn’t excuse what they did to their poor mother
Yes. They’re profoundly damaged by their experiences. NO ONE chooses the circumstances that make them criminals so in that sense no one is guilty. Society should decide based upon who’s likely to offend again. Boys who killed their parents shouldn’t be released until older, regardless of the conditions (unless it’s legally self defense, which this was not). Having terrible things done to you and reacting with deadly violence makes you MORE risky for society, not less. The trauma doesn’t just disappear simply because the traumatizers are dead. Many kids who are sexually abused go on to molest kids. Should they be given leniency? I don’t think so. The law should protect children as a whole-even if a sexual abuser has an impeccable excuse.
I’m less than halfway through the video but I’d be surprised if Dr Grande says that sexual abuse has nothing to do with the murders. Being a child abuser doesn’t make you any more deserving of death. You’re just as deserving of legal protection as the innocent.
@@UnknownUnknown1 you did not post links regarding leslie abramson coaching them on sex abuse. I watched the trial when it was first shown and since. lyle and erik would be the greatest living actors and abramson would be the greatest acting coach ever. the proof of the abuse is from family members. that jose was capable of abusing a young man has been revealed by the former member of menudo. lyle and erik were hypervigilant with regard to jose's threats. being sexually abused by their father drove them to a shaky mental state. Todd got this one wrong.
It is rare for me to disagree with Dr. Grande, but I disagree with him on this one. The brothers have suffered enough and have done enough time; they were horribly abused by both of their parents for their entire lives and deserve to live out their last couple of decades as free men.
The second trial was motivated by the prosecutors needing a conviction due to the LA riots, they needed something to redeem themselves. This is why they threw out evidence before the second trial. One big thing they didn't allow was testimony that their grandmother also stated she believed her son was a child rapist. There is a great online documentary explaining all this.
So much for blind justice. Also only reason OJ was freed was because the jury didnt care about Nicole since she was white. In the US the actual racism is towards whites.
Honestly, it’s hard to imagine someone thinking straight if that person is being sexually abused by his or her own father on a consistent basis. It’s easy to say: “just leave the home,” but that’s not how it works in abusive families. The siblings were probably full of hate and bitterness towards their father and, especially, mother (who never protected them from the abuse). Did they premeditate the murder? Certainly. But what else could be done? Go to the police? Their father was an influential man, who would have believed them? Their mother would probably have stood by their father’s side and called them liars. Even their cousins who knew about the abuse took YEARS to admit their knowledge in public. The singer from the Menudo family took over 30 years to talk about it publicly. The question is: would the Menendez brothers have commuted murder if they hadn’t been abused? I don’t think so. Last question: if they were women, would popular opinion have turned against them as they did because they were men? I doubt. Would anyone demand that they serve life sentences for killing a father who sexually abused them if they were women? I doubt it.
@@missmerbellai dont think that they would have been safe just by leaving. The father would have found them and the abuse continue, how it always happened. In their psichological situation the only iption was murder..
I understand what you are saying. I do think understanding such bizarre abuse and the mother’s complicity is beyond the average person’s scope. At the time, OJ had just gotten away with murder. People were needing accountability in the justice system. I really think this may have had a profound effect on the outcomes of their trials.
Dr Grande you should read the transcript from the first trial. There was a lot of evidence of abuse that was allowed into that trial that was not permitted in the second one. They ought to have been afforded the opportunity to use the evidence in the second trial. The judge made a legal error. It’s widely accepted that the average human brain is not fully developed until 25 years of age and that abuse and trauma can cause developmental delays. They were 18 and 21 at the time of the murder chronologically, but it is doubtful that they were actually that age developmentally. If a woman who has been exposed to abuse for many years feels she can’t escape why wouldn’t young adults who have been exposed to severe abuse suffer from the same trauma? That makes no logical sense. If a woman has grown up being abused by her parents and is told over and over again that her father owns her and there’s no escape the court accepts that as a mitigating factor so why shouldn’t be accepted for men? The second judge ought to have allowed that evidence in. They were not permitted to make full answer and defence in the second trial and now there’s a third victim who has come forward. There were corroborating witnesses to physical and mental abuse in the first trial. They weren’t permitted to be called in the second trial. You aren’t any less abused just because the abuser is rich and powerful. They very well could have believed that they could not escape him and they were probably right considered their father’s connections. Why is it so difficult for men to believe that boys who have been abused for years suffer just like girls do? I’m sorry Dr Grande but I do not agree with you. The abuse evidence ought to have been allowed in at the second trial. The judge made an error in law. I’ve read both trial transcripts as they were available on westlaw when I was a law student. They were not even permitted to use the abuse as a defence to mitigate sentencing. That was a clear error in law and a violation of their right to make full answer and defence. I’m tired of men’s rights being violated by people who believe that men don’t have feelings. I’m tired of men being abused and it being permitted by the system. Abuse is abuse and trauma affects men every bit as much as it does women.
We need to stop a) coddling spoiled parent killers and b) listening to any of the Kardashian family about anything ever at all. Also, Kim Kardashian can write?? 😮
I agree completely, with one exception... she certainly has to be an expert on maintaining an a$$ five times the expected girth of an average person. I'd love to know her secret to keeping her body fit and trim while maintaining an a$$ normally found on a morbidly obese person without surgical intervention. Not so I can have a big butt too, but so I can avoid such a tremendous derriere! Hahaha!
I respectfully disagree that they should stay in prison. I’ve seen a lot of deep dives into this case and if the abuse was as bad as the family says, I understand feeling like that might be the only way to be free. Their dad controlled everything and would have going forward. He was rich and powerful. Likely no one would have believed them. They had no protection by their own mother so why would they believe anyone else would protect them? I think they deserved to go to jail for murder but if that level of abuse is real, I think they have done their time for it. There have already been some fascinating docs on this case and I don’t think they got a fair shake on the second trial.
@@nevermind.abbs7 ur thier aorent didnt kill them so many other options beside murder why not jus punch and that still alful, it seem lik they was mad about not geting more money, end of day they should took the 25L and got out n 30/35 years , the court is not go change the judge dicision
I think you cannot underestimate the damage caused by one narcissistic parent, and a se* abuser. I think 30 years is long enough and they should be released. They should not however benefit financially from their crimes if that could be arranged under American Law.
Everyone says “they were adults, they could’ve left.” We have to remember that the most dangerous time in a victim’s life is when they try to leave their abuser. The father was powerful and controlling. Murder wasn’t the answer but they’ve served their time.
No they didn't serve their time. The sentence was/is life WITHOUT parole!!! They are exactly where they should be, a jury of their peers found both guilty and spared them the death penalty!!
There is not one iota of evidence to support the contention that the father sexually abused anyone. The so-called bombshell letter, written not when the brothers were children but just months before the murder, just supports that the murders were planned way ahead. And the Menudo guy's story has been proven to be full of holes. He even told several people that he was hoping the ensuing publicity would jump-start his failed career. I do not believe the brothers were ever sexually abused. Lyle was and is a sociopath ( ask his girlfriends, and look at his police record BRFORE the murders) and Eric was a sad follower. The triggering event here was that Lyle, a career playboy who failed at everything he tried, found out that his father was disinheriting him. He then murdered his parents in cold blood and tried to erase the will.
They were abused in the worst way all their lives. Going by their 'adult ' age while ignoring their emotional age is irresponsible. The mother knew and didnt stop it, because SHE was motivated by money over protecting her children. They did their time, more than most. This is a rare time that id be fine with their release
I truly couldn't care about Kim Kardashians opinion. However I have always believed them having heard the testimonies of themselves and others. I can say as well that I have worked with complex trauma and CSE in teens and young adults, and from some of the intricacies they testified to that they were abused. Lyle and Erik do not say " it was justified" at all. They say they acted out of fear, which with their diagnosises and the childhood that they had is very likely they did see the situations differently. Trust me, when people suffer from complex trauma throughout their lives, people can react very differently to how other people can react. A single smell, sound, image can cause wild emotional responses and they can interpret hostility in situations that arent necessarily there. Both of their parents were killed in the den, they didn't chase her around the house. If it was premeditated, then why not do it with handguns, in beverley hills, when people would hear. Why not wait till they could get handguns? Why not stage a robbery? A break in? It was a crime of passion quite clearly. Jerome oziel was having an affair with his patient who he asked to listen in at the door in order to blackmail both brothers. When Erik first saw Oziel he was reporting everything they discussed back to his father. Lyle and Erik's testimonies have never changed. Kitty allowed both brothers to be abused by their father as well as physically and emotionally abusing them also. Pretty much their entire family want them released including jose and kitty's siblings? In fact nearly all of them were witnesses of different types of abuse they had seen.
The mother was pretty terrible to the eldest, so getting raped by your father while hated by your mother that allows it to happen (and both claim she will molest them "softly" when they children)... At least Lyle killed her. Erik was amama's boy so that's why he was the most emotional since he was not as resentful.
So we’re both cousins also lying, as well as the Menudo boy who was r@ped by the dad so savagely he bled for a week? It happens. I have heard of people who think they should remain in prison, but I. don’t think anyone thinks they’re making up the abuse
So we’re both cousins also lying, as well as the Menudo boy who was r@ped by the dad so savagely he bled for a week? It happens. I have heard of people who think they should remain in prison, but I. don’t think anyone thinks they’re making up the abuse. If they do they never saw the testimony. Lyle would deserve an Oscar .
I don’t think they killed for money. The killings were brutal which showed the intensity of Their anger and hate. It was a very passionate murder. For both parents, which shows they hated both of them equally. Even Kitty’s sister said she can’t forgive her because she never protected those boys. So even with some premeditation, the crimes were a result of intense anger and an attempt to gain their power back. Unfortunately I do t think anyone would have believed them if they told on their dad. Every adult had failed them All their lives. They thought they only had each other and no support from the outside.
@@5675492 I'm not defending them because murder is not a course I would have taken, but when I left my parent's abusive home for the first time when I was 19, I had a period of a year or two where I felt extremely happy, almost celebratory, and life was SO great. It's finally over! I was out partying, making friends, very happy and doing great at school and work. You wouldn't think I was abused. I was on top of the world, I was free! Like, "this is it! This is the life!" And then the C-PTSD symptoms started to slowly kick in... and then in my thirties I was like, ohhh crap, I'm mentally ill. So I kinda get it. I mean, they were acting like two kids who were suddenly free with a lot of money more than two criminal masterminds who needed the money for some specific mega-investment. Not that they weren't criminals, but not exactly masterminds.
1. If they want to eliminate the father? Why would they kill their mom...chase her around the house.... ? 2.... Spending money right away? They have a very unique way of grieving... 3... Even if their father was guilty..... Why not leave the house.... 3. They knew exactly what they were doing...... BS... Parents were raising criminals and were committing petty crimes......
Talk to any survivor of childhood SA where the mother was well aware of what was going on and ask their opinion on this. It should be pretty clear why they went after their mother then.
I understand... I was a victim of child abuse .... I do understand what you're saying.... But to kill them ..... Many people may have been abused... Do they end up becoming killers ? These brothers were troubled since beginning n became criminals and were spoiled..
To top it off, they were 19 and 20 ... they should have left the "abuse". Many a 14 year old has run away from such abuse. It makes me chuckle that these two adults cried victim when their real intention was to live the baller life and get the inheritance without a moment's delay. Makes me chuckle and shake my head at the people sympathising with them and wanting to have them be released...
@@ang_roI was starting to be on Mendez brother side but why kill the mother? You guys said because she knew about it and did nothing but the brothers say they were putting her out of her misery. But she was running away trying to live when they killed her?
Why is it okay to accept, " Battered Wife Syndrome" is real and give leniency. People dont say, "oh she have just left, life without parole for you!!". People have empathy to DV victims. Why is there no "Battered Child Syndrome"? Why is that sooo hard to believe? Should childhood abuse not be a factor?
They were adults. They could have left. Instead they premeditated killing their parents. Like Dr grande said, both things can be true at the same time. Even if they were abused, it doesn’t justify MURDERING your parents. There’s plenty of people who are abused and they don’t go on to be killers
There is. It's called Complex Post Traumatic Syndrome or CPTSD. It stems from a child or adult receiving or being exposed to trauma/abuse over an extended period of time.
@@cassandraotroy6325 I keep seeing these comments that mentally they were children. That assumption and diagnosis was made by a psychiatrist that the defense paid for. They literally paid him to say what they want him to say. It does not make it definitive fact. Legally they were adults and that’s all that matters
If they left, they would not get support. If they went to the authorities, they would be cut off. Jose used his money to control the people around them and groomed his children when they were 6 years old. For a couple of young boys who felt trapped, killing their parents was the only way to get out of the situation- and get the money. Also, the fact that Kitty was miserable and stayed in the marriage was proof of Jose's control over everyone. They were screwed-up kids because of the abuse; what their father did to them was gross. Maybe not a popular opinion here, but they have paid their dues, and are not a threat to society.
Here’s my take on the Menendez case: yes they may have been abused, I suspect they have greatly embellished the extent that they were abused by their parents to gain sympathy from a judge or jury or the public. But the fact is at that time they were adults and they could leave, but they chose not to. Why? because they are spoiled, self-centered, lazy, useless brats. They were hanging around for an easy lifestyle and a free ride courtesy of mommy and daddy. And when mommy and daddy started to put some expectations on them to actually succeed in something, they decided to blow them away with 12 gauges, then immediately start living high on the hog on their parents money. These two psychopaths, regardless of any abuse that they endured, need to serve the sentence they were given.
@@justyna5924It was drilled into them from a young age that they would be killed if they ever told anyone. That's how abusers work, they know how to protect themselves and brainwash children to feel trapped and ashamed. People apparently still have no clue how psychologically complex this is and how your psyche is broken growing up with emotional and SA. Their Father was also well connected in LA (and surely no coincidence he managed boy bands), I bet he part of those rings, they all protect each other, by now it should be clear how many of his kind run things there.
Ummm, no. Much like her stand on the moon landing, she's wrong about this as well. P.S Since when did any of the Kardashian's become experts in anything?
I'm not a fan of the Kardashians at all, BUT Kim wants to follow in her father's footsteps and she went to law school. It seems to me she is taking this very seriously.
Not if they were SA. They were abused most probably since they were young. They were threatened, by their father. I'm sure there was shame involved and an imbarrassment.
They couldn't have just left the mansion or called someone for help because their father was very influential and could hurt them. Their father was a vindictive man and even their mother had suffered his abuse. I don't think it is as easy as just walking away or asking for help. The only other 'help' they accessed was that unethical Oziel. Erik did tell his cousin that he was being abused. The allegations of child sexual abuse is compelling because it led to a hung jury for the first time and the boys were spared from the death penalty. Also, their relatives to this day corroborate the allegations of sexual abuse. I believe with the new evidence available, their case deserves to be taken up.
With c-ptsd, their feeling they might be killed that night doesn't need to make sense. They had it, so acted on it. Im not shocked neither brother mentioned the SA at the time. Sure, they lived it up after their crime. I think most of us would at that age. I think they need released. The man SAed by Jose who came forward is an especially compelling witness who backs up both brother's claims. Is society at risk? No. They killed who needed to go. Could they have simply left that night? Again, no, the c-ptsd had them prisoners. You absolutely cannot comprehend what that's like to live daily unless you've been there. Dr. Grande's analysis is spot on, but if you flip the coin, I believe there's another side equally as valid. These boys really did get put through hell growing up.
I’m so sick of people trying to take Netflix shows as documentaries and crushing on the actors. Was on Reddit today and there was a load of posts saying how gorgeous Erik was 🤦🏼♀️ At the end of the day, they shot unarmed people. They may have been abused however they were not in imminent danger. It’s not self defence. It was pre-meditated. Therefore these guys are guilty of first degree murder.
Ha! You are so correct!….. years watching true crime videos, there are tons of people who commit similar crimes, but are very unfortunate looking….. ain’t nobody crying for their freedom….
I’ve heard conflicting things about the killings. But (as said in the court case) didn’t the parents or father threaten to kill the sons and then went out of sight somewhere in the home, and supposedly the sons were afraid because they didn’t know if their parents were going to re-appear with weapons so the sons started shooting?
I feel the same. Is disgusting. The motivation was obviously money. They were not shy about spending them immediately afterwards. The abuse just came as defense strategy. As if anyone is entitled to hunt people down like animals and kill them and just claim oh sorry I was abused. Oh okay then, carry on !
As adults they should have left home as opposed to murdering their parents but people who prey on children deserve punishment. Also, given the abuse, they weren’t well adjusted so taking a healthy life person’s point of view on potential solutions may not be realistic.
So many other options besides murder , he should jus punch and this still not right, they should jus cus them out n moved on , and the biggest factor after mistake is they should took the deal of 25L nstead of goin to trial they would been out n 30 years after doin 5 years after 25, so the court not change the judge decision, a lot of people make the mistake of not taking the 25L and can get out ,28-35 years , it seem lik they are spoiled and upset because thier parent didn giv them more money end of day shoudl took the 25£ n not go to trial
Talk about rich privilege. The cops just immediately assumed they were innocent and didn't test them with the thought process of eliminating them as suspects.
Just my thoughts. If the evidence shows that sexual molestation over and over within the Father's so-called normal lifestyle then they have served enough and maybe too much time because they were in prison with such a dispicable father. As an eight year old, my neighbors had this same stuff going on and I'm glad I was able to Keep away from it all~ I am biased. Emotion played a role...anger and hatred came to a head.
A broken clock is right twice a day. Kim may be wrong about much, but she is using her platform for a good cause. I believe the Menendez brothers. They were victims of horrible abuse from both parents. They served their time,, set them free
"The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth" - African proverb and this is exactly what they did after going through so much abuse and bullying from their psychopath father, the mother was an accomplice. Regardless KK, they deserve a second chance, they have served in prison enough.
They should definitely be released, life sentence without parole is not justified in this case. They are not a danger to the public, they won't re-offend. They were horrifically abused, self preservation is a human instinct.
I rarely disagree with Dr. grande. However, hearing them cry on the stand was believable. Dad was a POS and even though they were adults they still experienced the long time abuse. Mom didn’t protect them. Moms are supposed to protect. They have served 35 years.
Wow, you’re easily fooled by a couple of spoilt sociopaths, As you say they were adults , they had other options , there was no excuse for the savage way they murdered their mother , even if you could argue the murder of their father was justified
@@tillyt4054 The mother's own family including her sister and nieces have said they don't forgive her for what she did to her sons. You people are so ignorant.
Thanks for video about this, It was suggested that both parents abused them, with father primarily. They were abused as little children and was horrific. They at least deserve a new trial so that all the evidence can be exposed. Also, was suggested that the father threatened their lives. But nobody knows everything unless the evidence is allowed to be presented.
Also, wondered Why didn't they leave home? Were they threatened if they did leave, even as they got older? unless all the evidence is presented, nobody knows. Still, they had to pay the consequences of murder which is wrong, regardless.
@@ginnyn9660 Until you have lived a life of emotional, physical, and sexual abuse, it's very hard to understand the trauma that it entails. IF what the boys testified to (in their first trial) is all true, they grew up completely abused their entire lives and felt threatened by their father in every way imaginable. They also allegedly told others about the abuse, and they were not believed.
@@ginnyn9660 The son who was being r@ped was not allowed to leave the home to go to college, the father said that son had to stay home, though he was 18 (and assumedly continue to be r@ped)
If this s*x abuse happened it's horrible and repulsive but what they did during the murders and after. It was overkill imo. They need to stay where they are.
No, Gypsy did not commit the act of murdering her mother. She may had planned it, but someone else committed the act. Both of these brothers committed the act by blowing the heck out of their parents with riffles at close range., Gypsy served her time. These guys have not.
Her father was on the side of OJ Simpson so pretty much that tells you everything . Plus her mom said back then that Nicole was getting beat and knew he would kill her.
Some of y’all are dense. A member of the boy band Menudo literally signed an affidavit that the father drugged and sexually abused him. Sexual abuse knows no income boundaries.
I have to disagree. I think they should be released. Everyone has an opinion but if you haven’t been sexually abused then you have no idea what the brothers were thinking or how they processed what was happening to them. Everyone says they could’ve left but their dad was literally involved of every aspect of their life.
The brothers robbed neighbors and stole from family and the father was always covering for them, too late the father realized by doing this he put himself in danger.
The mother was not innocent. She was fully aware of the abuse, was present as it happened and enabled it. To keep HER fancy lifestyle she pimped out her children to her husband.
These were two adults that had , no jobs and a wrapsheet. I wouldn’t trust what they had to say. Even their own psychiatrist deemed they were sociopaths. They were both adults. Idk life was so bad they could have left and made a life of their own. They chose to stay. They belong in prison right where they belong. Regardless if the ‘ weren’t that great they didn’t deserve to die and in the way they did as well. They premeditated their parent’s murder. Letting them go would send a message to others that it’s okay to murder your parents if you don’t like them. Just no. They are a threat to society. Period.
I have to disagree. Manslaughter would have been a far more appropriate charge. There is ample evidence that they were abused, that their father was in fact a monster, and that their mother let it all happen. Could they simply have left? Yes. But did they think they could? That there was any hope that their father would not find them? That's the issue. Is what they did wrong? Yes. But it wasn't murder. At most it was manslaughter. And then there are the legal issues. A therapist secretly recording their patients in order to hand those recordings over to police is not only illegal but it should render that evidence and any evidence discovered as a result of it, including statements made by the brothers, inadmissible. I think the case caused a lot of parents to undertake a very brief period of very uncomfortable self-reflection. They wondered whether their own children would one day turn on them for all the bad things they have done. And instead of growing from that self-reflection and becoming better people - and better parents - they chose to demonize the brothers instead. And let's not even get into the fact that if they were sisters instead of brothers they never would have been convicted in the first place. They should be released. Nothing more is served by them continuing to be imprisoned.
@@tonyaparrish2308 Not if circumstances mitigate the alleged premeditation. Might I point out that owning a firearm for self-defense is a constitutional right and thus not evidence of anything. And under California law if a person kills another in an honest but unreasonable belief that the use of deadly force was necessary for self-defense they may be found guilty of voluntary manslaughter instead of murder. Given the circumstances there is ample evidence that the brothers believed that their parents were a threat to their lives. Was this in fact the case? Perhaps. Perhaps not. Did the brothers have the option of simply running away? Yes. But did they believe that that was actually an option given years of abuse and extreme control that their parents had subjected them to? I don't think it is unreasonable to conclude that they genuinely but mistakenly thought that it wasn't an option. Which makes it a case of imperfect self-defense. Which makes the killings voluntary manslaughter not murder. Which is a maximum of 11 years. Even with two sentences running consecutively they would have been released years ago.
@@enjoystraveling Yes. But did they actually think that was an option? That's the issue here. If this was a case of a woman who was abused by her husband for 20 years and fearing for her life killed him would you be saying that she could have just gotten on a bus? I doubt it. I'm not saying they are innocent. What they did was wrong. But there are mitigating circumstances and under California imperfect self-defense is a partial defense. It lowers murder to voluntary manslaughter. Which I think is what should have happened. They still would have got two 11 year sentences. So it's not like they would have gotten away with it. But it would have been more appropriate. There's a lot of sexism at play in this case.
I'm glad Dr Grande comes to the same conclusion I did. I've spoken to so many people who think the mere whiff of a suggestion of SA by their father means that the brothers should be freed, completely disregarding the pre-meditation, the fact they could have left at any time, the blatant execution of their mother, their dishonesty etc... it was about the money, as simple as that.
One of the reporters who attended the first trial said it best: "If you think they should have life without parole, you weren't in that courtroom". Eric in particular gave such ghastly testimony in such a compelling way that one reporter said he would have had to be as skilled as Marlon Brando to have been acting and making that up. Having read Paul Mones' book called "When a Child Kills", a case study of eight children who committed matricide/patricide, I would say that the brothers fit that mold. The killers in that book, all abused of course, believed without a doubt that their father or mother was going to kill them. They all concluded after their incarceration that prison was better than home. Psychologists testified that the brothers had the emotional intelligence of 8-year-olds who would have considered it unthinkable that they could survive by just leaving home.
One of my major accomplushments in my 80 years of life so far is that I have NEVER seen a single epidode of the Kardashian show and wouldn't recognize any of them if they were in the same room as me.
I'm disappointed. This episode had completely ignored what trauma from severe, long-term abuse can do to a person. I'm moved by Kim Kardashian's humanity.
It surprising that as a counsellor , dr grande didn’t focus enough (or at all) of what severe long term control and SA can do to a child. He controlled everything. They didn’t even have a house key. Their dad had just told them they had to live home PT while going away to school so he could continue to abuse them. To them, there was no end in sight. Even as adults. It’s not as easy as just hopping in a car- they had been under his control and fearful all their lives.
People seem to just be forgetting that those two were adults and if they were truly being abused or felt afraid they were perfectly free to simply leave their family home and go off on their own.
Of course. People are crazy..,,poor boys,, 😮 seriously they hunted own mother like hunters hunt animals! They were oh so much hurting inside that they spend all the money that they stole from parents. To me it looks like they couldn't care less. Spoiled, entitled, creepy murderers.
I think it's far more complicated than that when you have abusive parents. Their relationship with their dad was complex, with a mix of total admiration, fear, love, hate. The father created a fusional bond with his boys. And a strong family law of loyalty. Why do you think so many people stay in abusive relationships even though they're adults? Unhealthy relationships create fusion. Their parents were their whole world. And they were only 19 and 21, that's not really being adults. And taking their parents to court would mean facing them in the courtroom, with the boys feeling like traitors. Of course it would have been the healthiest and most courageous thing to do.
@@labotraduc8448 there is literally zero excuse for them to not just leave so I don’t want to hear excuses from you fangirls with crushes. They wanted the money, it was always all about the money, it was that simple.
Both of them are pathological liars!! Lyle threatened to kill the doctor and asked his ex-girlfriend to lie for him, before her testimony. This is another reason why he didn't testify during their last trial.
Society shouldn’t be OK with two adults planning a double homicide and a bunch of nitwits on social media who watched a Netflix series lining up to excuse MURDER!
I have been aghast at some of the arguments to release the Menendez Bros (not retry, flat out release without a retrial) with the only reason being the admittedly horrible allegations of abuse weighed against their parents. Those actions should be condemned, of course ... but so should murder. And no personal experience, no matter how traumatic, can be justification for murder. I feel like too many have taken that Netflix miniseries to heart instead of thinking about it in their heads!
It's not about justifying murder at all, it's about a lighter sentence in light of the events and in light of a very low chance of reoffence. I think people should actually watch the first trial themselves before forming strong opinions.
And no personal experience, no matter how traumatic, can be justification for murder-- Bullshit. There is only so much you should be expected to take in this world. Sometimes death is semi-justice. That being said, I'd have to see their evidence.
All the sympathisisers and I have one thing in common. The sympathy wouldn't be there if it were the Mendez sisters who committed the crime. As a dude I'm not into hybristophilia 😂
@@Dani-lc9hq Again, my issue is not with a re-investigation or a re-trial. I am all for both. BUT the prevailing public reaction has been to release them without any further legal examination or possible consequence.
I’m glad to hear that you are one of the few who actually have common sense and can see this for what it is. The Brothers are exactly where they belong. There is not solid proof that they were abused. Especially by their mother. The fact that they took their dad‘s money to pay for a high priced attorney to drag his name and kitties name through the mud is absolutely horrific crime against humanity. Thank you for attempting to bring common sense to the general public
Thank you! Has the world gone MAD??? I followed this case- the sexual abuse excuse was not even mentioned until the brothers were on trial- not one word. There is literally ZERO evidence of sexual abuse, zero, Menudo boy's pathetic attempt at publicity nonwithstanding.His story completely fell apart. These men murdered their parents for greed and because the ringleader, Lyle, is a confirmed sociopath. People talk as if the sexual abuse is a given- it was made up because it was the only possible mitigating factor. NONE of the brothers actions that night-or any other- support the idea that they were either abused or in fear for their lives. Thank you for being a voice of reason here. 2 human beings are dead.
@@DavidWilliams-by2ne I could be wrong, David, but I believe the other family members said they HEARD about abuse, not that they witnessed it first-hand. If their family is anything like mine, stories get passed around all the time, get embellished and are colored by all kinds of things. Of course rich people can abuse. They can also be liars, and both brothers (especially Lyle) had a long history of lying and antisocial behavior before the murders. If the other family members witnessed child abuse, where is the evidence?? Where are the police reports, where are the calls to child protective services? Where are the phone records, school documentation, etc.? Where are the medical records- the brothers would have to have had injuries. I am not saying there should be hundreds of reports, but not ONE???? There is not a SINGLE verifying piece of evidence for abuse that supposedly happened for over a decade!! And by the way, for every family member that said they heard about abuse, there were a dozen more that said the parents were extremely loving and caring, and never saw or heard of ANY abuse.
They could have left home. But they wanted the loot on top of their revenge. Dangerous people who know right from wrong. They were old enough to leave home. They could have exposed their father for revenge instead. While I have sympathy for abuse victims, this is not how one deals with it. People making excuses because 'we are in different times' are just making excuses. Sadly, because the likelihood that they would do the same thing if they were in the brothers' same shoes, is probably prevalant.
In my opinion, the brothers could have left at any time. Pack up, get in the car and leave. I’d like to know why their father removed them from his will. Did either son have a job? Were they simply living at home and having fun? This story doesn’t make sense. If they left they could threaten their father with revealing the abuse if he came after them. Again in my opinion, if the brothers were simply living their lives at home and spending their father’s money then they were a couple of freeloaders. Save enough money to get the heck out of there and never speak to their parents again. I care nothing about Kim Kardashian’s opinion on this case.
They made lame attempts to. The father funded all the hobbied and education he put them on (they couldn't choose), so the oldest moved out after getting accepted into a college far from home. Lyle had alrady started to invest in real state and the fashion industry so he was getting his money if I remember correctly. He had wanted to help Erik move out as well when he finished college, but things went to shit during family visits when Lyle discovered the father was still raping Erik. Allegedly, when Lyle comfronted him about this (the father had told Lyle whe he stopped raping him in his early teens that he had stopped raping Erik too), the father threatened to kill them (as usual), move strings around to fuck up the carreers he had made them have, and of course threaten to take away all financial support and take them out of his will. Not too long after the murders took place. Also, after the revelation the father told Erik that he would not be allawed to live on campus during college, he would be at home getting rape das often as always... So yeah, not exactly as easy as move out. The father was too controlling to just let them be free from him if they didn't do what they wanted, specially Erik. Not that brothers were humble in any way, they were already used to luxury.
@@terryKessler42719 In my opinion, I can't know what damage is done to children of that kind of abuse, except that abused women are so groomed and traumatized that it takes an average of 7 attempts to leave their abuser that we know of. Now imagine a life of control and abuse. Wait...I'm assuming that you have any empathy (or education about chronic PTSD) at all🤷♀️
@@paunaic5460 These are mostly allegations….many of which are not substantiated. 😂 Many people can corroborate that Jose was controlling but no one but the brothers can corroborate the claim that Jose was threatening to kill them due to “family secrets/abuse” Some of their friends have corroborated that though Erik was trying to go pro, while Jose wanted him to go to college. Jose is super controlling….but the other evidence shows that they murdered for the money & freedom from being controlled. Their abuse allegations is their only defense. 😂😂
They are still locked up, because there is yet no evidence convincing enough to get them out. I think their lust for luxury and partying is going to be the biggest obstacle. Hearsay and letters that suddenly appear don't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that they were abused.
I am in NO doubt the father would have killed them if they started to tell. Cause he threatend them!!!!! And the proof of molestation in the court case are sickening!!!! It is easy to judge, for everyone that has never experienced anything like what these brothers did.
Anyone who is ok with having the brothers released should be equally ok with having them as roommates. What's that you say ? No ? Why not ? These poor boys are perfectly harmless victims of abuse so having them in a couple of bedrooms down the hall should not be an issue.
Something wasn't right with that family. We will never know if SA took place, but assume for a minute it did. Should they die in jail? I don't think so. I hope they get out, and I would not be afraid of them. That home had some kind of bad juju. It's now gone, and the men are different people all these years later.
You obviously don’t understand abuse. Just like an adult woman is old enough to leave her abuser but it’s hard. Why? Because it usually ends in her death.
I believe the boys that they were abused. I think if they had only killed their father, and were believed about the abuse, it might have resulted in jury nullification. But the killing of their mother was their undoing. It was murder, and it was done to remove her as a witness, and as a way to gain their inheritance. I believe them that they were abused, but I don't believe killing their mother was justified, even with the mental health that would have resulted from their trauma.
You have to live what they lived to make judgements on their actions. They may have been adults but that doesn't mean they knew they could leave anytime. 21 isnt that old and when someone who was supposed to love you had power like that over you your whole life, you don't think you can just leave. They weren't thinking like well adjusted young people. They were thinking like lifelong prisoners in their own home. When you're about the same thing as a POW from young childhood, you feel your only option for escape is to kill your captor. The money was a bonus. I think they would have done the same thing if they were poor. The mother was a rage killing.
This is just my opinion and I'm unqualified to made a diagnosis. My mother was frontally brain injured, making her less able to regulate her emotions and violent at times. As well, she had a stressful childhood, and I think she may have had BPD. Dealing with this, I too had a stressful childhood. What I did was save as much money as I could, found a college and job a couple hours away from home, and escaped for good. I went to school with a gal who's father was raping her and her sister from the time they were children. Her mother spent all her time in her bedroom, to avoid facing what was going on and doing anything about it. They did exactly the same thing - saved money and moved away ASAP. These two are probably just as narcissistic and sociopathic as their parents. They believed they could get away with murder. Instead of putting their allowance aside, getting jobs, going to school to support themselves, etc, they rolled the dice.
"the unparalleled wisdom of Kim Kardashian not withstanding,"
God, I love Dr. Grande.
That was a lovely Backhanded Compliment. 💙🤭
😂😂💀💀 gotta love the sarcasm.
She helped with another case .
@@jgalt5002 Is she going to help with Diddy's?
@@jltrem lol
To look at the question. Who gives a shit about Kim Kardhasians opinion on criminal convictions
My son was given a case from Kardashian for appeal. He lives in NJ. It it not just Kim, but a whole program. Innocent people do land up convicted
Amen
Donald Trump. She got him to sign some federal criminal law reforms, and a few pardons. Not joking, but it is a joke.
Well her dad helped OJ get exonerated
Agreed.
I believe Dr. Grande may be the only person on the planet to utter "unparalleled wisdom" while referring to Kim Kardashian, and showed "unparalleled restraint" in keeping a straight face while doing so.
😂😂😂
HIs dead pan delivery is so good! Guy is genuinely funny!
He definitely aced his English classes in college.
😂
I'd love to see the out-takes. Sometimes he shows them.
I've always been torn by this story. As children/teens who experienced awful things we couldn't escape from, my siblings and I fantasized about revenge! Made up elaborate stories of how 'they'd' pay. We couldn't protect ourselves and others didn't step in. We did leave home early... but the trauma never ended the way people assume it does. Like, now you're out you're free! The abusers live on to believe and convince others of their innocence, and sometimes abuse others, often they remain in your lives continuing to gaslight and torment. There is NO punishment for them. I know the power of wanting to wipe that smug smile off their face.
When I first heard about the shootings (before the abuse allegations came out) I thought; those boys were very angry at their parents and it takes a certain type of horrendous upbringing to make children that angry.
I too fantasized about taking my power back when it came to my abusive parent, I think they actually acted on those fantasies.
that was the basis of my question to Dr Grande
I’m truly sorry that happened to you.
@@andreeanasca8216 'taking my power back'... yes, that's the desired result.
Yes, it certainly does. I had a plan to get rid of my mother coz I couldn't take the abuse anymore. A solid plan. Ahhhh.....
Abuse changes you. Forever. You don't just get better coz 12 ppl say you're innocent or guilty. Those brothers actions will forever be ruled by their emotions. As for Kim K. Well, Kim. They can go free, but they have to live with you. You still want them free?????!!!!
I couldn't care less what Kim Kardashian thinks about any single thing on this planet.
unfortunately some people do.. shes already got plenty of murderers out of jail.. all a certain color too.
She hasn't done much lately (got married, had another kid, high profile romance) so this puts her back in the public eye and part of the current Menendez zeitgeist.
❤️🇬🇧
KK as a moral compass is laughable
what compass?
Since when has the legal system required morals?
That’s the joke
@DeidresStuff so true, I wanted to comment the same thing. To lawyers, it is all about the money!
The cramming lawyer? NOT. She s a joke.
The boy from Menudo was actually 13 years old boy and bled for a week from the fathers boys rape
😢
No one bit of proof ,just hearsay
@@andyvanm1 Too many people saying the same damn thing about the "victims" for it to be just made up, don't you think? No way that man was innocent of sexual abuse - and if he was guilty, so was his wife, because everyone and their horse seems to have known about it, no way that "mother" didn't.
@@andreaplavkova1037 and OJ was innocent crowd say the same crap ... those spoiled bastards want out of prison ...and will say anything to get it. There was a reason why women weren't allowed on juries years ago and your reasoning proves it today.
@@andyvanm1people like you are the reason why victims don't say anything.
Dr Grande’s wife, nudging him in his sleep: “Honey! Wake up! You’re mumbling in your sleep again. ‘I’m not diagnosing anyone. This is only my opinion…’”
Wife? That would be very strange/deceptive if he had a wife..but I get some women are very slow sadly
@@IntegrityMeansAll?
@@IntegrityMeansAll
???
why/how is it deceptive and sad for Dr. Grande to have a wife? Which he does, he's introduced her. But your comment is bizarre and probably meant in an ugly way. What makes people like you make such strange and unpleasant comments when they could just keep scrolling and not show the world that they have issues! Geez!!! You sound like you're jealous somehow? Fame envy maybe? Sour grapes for sure though!
@@IntegrityMeansAllwow my comment didn't get posted because I called you out on what a bizarre comment you made yet utube will post your remark being derogatory to Dr. Grande in a most grievous manner. Anyway, you sound jealous and or ignorant . Just saying.
I hope that therapist lost his license. Truly the most unprofessional person
I heard a slightly different story to Dr Grande.
I read the therapist went directly to police himself after Eric threatened to kill him.
Eric's own words, his threats were the catalyst and legal and morally right thing to do in that situation.
The therapist didn't break the privacy and confidentiality of the Dr and patient.
Nor did he go to the police...
He held his oath and silence. For quite a while.
Until Eric MADE him break it due to a very credible threat to his life.
Ironically it was both brothers own words that got them caught 😅
Lyle's original confession.
Erics threat saying he "has" to kill him to save them both.
Eric literally broke the confidentiality agreement himself, basically forcing the therapist to speak to the cops.
.
🤔
He lost it.
Is a hypocrisy when we give value to things like battled spouse syndrome, but we think a teenager that grew up in abuse should be mature enough to know a better way out.
Right?!
Thank you! This is exactly what I was thinking. Why isn't there a battered child syndrome. Also, maybe they felt they deserved to spend all the money as compensation for years of horrific abuse.
@peapod6747 there is. They're calling it "Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder" or cPTSD. As I understand it (I'm a RN w/ practice in mental health), the difference between the two being that PTSD is often caused by a single traumatic event whereas cPTSD comes from traumatic events occurring in the person's life over a period of time. Like childhood. I believe the term "generational trauma" is worth researching as well. Tim Fletcher, LMHC, out of Canada does a really good job describing both of these concepts.
@@lhr8833 💯
@@peapod6747. re: the money. No; they were just straight up sociopaths.
My best friend growing up and her little brother were SA'd by their stepdad for years. BFF grew up to be infertile because of what he did to her. Little brother killed himself at age 17 to escape it. Step dad went on to reoffend and ruin multiple more lives until he finally, thankfully died of a heart attack in his late 50s. "Society" might not be okay with children killing their parents, regardless of what monstrous things the parents are doing to them, and then there's the rest of us. Put me on the jury.
💯
Thank you from every single word! I think the same!! My friend was SA'd by her drug addict mum who pimp her own daighter to get drugs. Mother had been in the grave for years. She was killed by overdose but if my friend would had takek a law to her own hands I wouldn't have been angry.
The problem is they are not alive thanks to the brothers to give their side of it in a trial of SA. By unaliving their parents instead of going to police to accuse them of SA and leaving the home they unalived them. This will always and forever leave many people with the idea that it was a cover story, and rightly so. If they wanted retribution the way forward was gather evidence, have a place to go, and take it to court.
I do not doubt that the motive for these murders was revenge, but revenge for what exactly is the question. A higher range of ACEs, such as parental divorce, economic hardship, emotional abuse, physical abuse, and sexual abuse; neglect, etc., are correlated to at least 5 of the top 10 leading causes of early death in adulthood. In my case, my step parents were stable forces in the lives of my narcissistic, socioeconomically high-functioning, yet, Cluster B personality disordered parents. Unfortunately, out of guilt over the divorce of his first wife, the mother of his three sons, my step-dad spoiled my step-brothers rotten. For the most part, my step-brothers, who were not sexually abused but did have an alcoholic mother, ended up just like the Menendez brothers, my half-siblings reflected the more or less good to bad values of their parents, and my full siblings and I had to look perfect in comparison, which placed targets on our backs.
And this comment is evidence that you're not fit to sit on a jury. God help you, should you ever need a fair trial.
I disagree that being repeatedly sexually abused by a parent from a young age has nothing to do with a child's' development, actions in response, up to and including murder. A child learns what it lives. If indeed their father repeatedly sexually and violently abused them, a person who's supposed to protect them - not have intercourse with them - how is that not mitigating? And if their mother knew and did nothing to stop it - then she'd be guilty of child abuse as well allowing it to happen.
Because there is no real solid proof that it happened. But there is proof that their attorney coached them. There is proof that the attorney they hired specialized in these types of cases where murder was excused because they were allegedly abused. Even if Jose did do it it doesn’t excuse what they did to their poor mother
Yes. They’re profoundly damaged by their experiences. NO ONE chooses the circumstances that make them criminals so in that sense no one is guilty. Society should decide based upon who’s likely to offend again. Boys who killed their parents shouldn’t be released until older, regardless of the conditions (unless it’s legally self defense, which this was not). Having terrible things done to you and reacting with deadly violence makes you MORE risky for society, not less. The trauma doesn’t just disappear simply because the traumatizers are dead. Many kids who are sexually abused go on to molest kids. Should they be given leniency? I don’t think so. The law should protect children as a whole-even if a sexual abuser has an impeccable excuse.
I’m less than halfway through the video but I’d be surprised if Dr Grande says that sexual abuse has nothing to do with the murders. Being a child abuser doesn’t make you any more deserving of death. You’re just as deserving of legal protection as the innocent.
@@UnknownUnknown1 you did not post links regarding leslie abramson coaching them on sex abuse. I watched the trial when it was first shown and since. lyle and erik would be the greatest living actors and abramson would be the greatest acting coach ever. the proof of the abuse is from family members. that jose was capable of abusing a young man has been revealed by the former member of menudo. lyle and erik were hypervigilant with regard to jose's threats. being sexually abused by their father drove them to a shaky mental state. Todd got this one wrong.
Evidence?
Kim Kardashian has a Netflix law degree
I thought it was an Instagram degree 😂
Too funny😂
😂😅
You may not like Kardashians but they're not dumb. It's a reality show and they act how they think they can get audience.
Graduated “Lord Have Mercy” with Honors in Chrome Buffing and Big Arses.
It is rare for me to disagree with Dr. Grande, but I disagree with him on this one. The brothers have suffered enough and have done enough time; they were horribly abused by both of their parents for their entire lives and deserve to live out their last couple of decades as free men.
The second trial was motivated by the prosecutors needing a conviction due to the LA riots, they needed something to redeem themselves. This is why they threw out evidence before the second trial. One big thing they didn't allow was testimony that their grandmother also stated she believed her son was a child rapist. There is a great online documentary explaining all this.
That makes sense why she was always by their side even after they confessed to the killings.
Eles já pagaram por seu crime, merecem a liberdade
If freaking Gypsy Rose is free, they absolutely should be too....
So much for blind justice. Also only reason OJ was freed was because the jury didnt care about Nicole since she was white. In the US the actual racism is towards whites.
yep..... the riots together with the OJ trial
Honestly, it’s hard to imagine someone thinking straight if that person is being sexually abused by his or her own father on a consistent basis. It’s easy to say: “just leave the home,” but that’s not how it works in abusive families. The siblings were probably full of hate and bitterness towards their father and, especially, mother (who never protected them from the abuse). Did they premeditate the murder? Certainly. But what else could be done? Go to the police? Their father was an influential man, who would have believed them? Their mother would probably have stood by their father’s side and called them liars. Even their cousins who knew about the abuse took YEARS to admit their knowledge in public. The singer from the Menudo family took over 30 years to talk about it publicly. The question is: would the Menendez brothers have commuted murder if they hadn’t been abused? I don’t think so.
Last question: if they were women, would popular opinion have turned against them as they did because they were men? I doubt. Would anyone demand that they serve life sentences for killing a father who sexually abused them if they were women? I doubt it.
"What else could be done?" THEY COULD HAVE LEFT.
@@missmerbellai dont think that they would have been safe just by leaving. The father would have found them and the abuse continue, how it always happened. In their psichological situation the only iption was murder..
@missmerbella lol in that case, battered wife syndrome should not be a legitimate defense in court since "they could have left"
I understand what you are saying. I do think understanding such bizarre abuse and the mother’s complicity is beyond the average person’s scope. At the time, OJ had just gotten away with murder. People were needing accountability in the justice system. I really think this may have had a profound effect on the outcomes of their trials.
Yet so many other victims of worse abuse do not go on to be murderers, hmmm.
Kim needs to mind her bussiness... She shouldnt draw attention to herself right now. Shes involved with P DIDDY
And OJ!
Let the truth come out!
The only business she has is "how can I get some press!" 🤡
How is she involved? Has she been indicted ? 😂
@@AllAboutPurple She inserted herself in the case.
As always, I appreciate the factual presentation Dr. Grande brings to us. Logical reasoning is sorely missing in much of society today.
I agree with Dr. Grande's conclusion.
LOL at Kim Kardashian's "unparalleled wisdom".
Dr Grande you should read the transcript from the first trial. There was a lot of evidence of abuse that was allowed into that trial that was not permitted in the second one. They ought to have been afforded the opportunity to use the evidence in the second trial. The judge made a legal error.
It’s widely accepted that the average human brain is not fully developed until 25 years of age and that abuse and trauma can cause developmental delays. They were 18 and 21 at the time of the murder chronologically, but it is doubtful that they were actually that age developmentally.
If a woman who has been exposed to abuse for many years feels she can’t escape why wouldn’t young adults who have been exposed to severe abuse suffer from the same trauma? That makes no logical sense.
If a woman has grown up being abused by her parents and is told over and over again that her father owns her and there’s no escape the court accepts that as a mitigating factor so why shouldn’t be accepted for men?
The second judge ought to have allowed that evidence in. They were not permitted to make full answer and defence in the second trial and now there’s a third victim who has come forward. There were corroborating witnesses to physical and mental abuse in the first trial. They weren’t permitted to be called in the second trial.
You aren’t any less abused just because the abuser is rich and powerful. They very well could have believed that they could not escape him and they were probably right considered their father’s connections.
Why is it so difficult for men to believe that boys who have been abused for years suffer just like girls do? I’m sorry Dr Grande but I do not agree with you. The abuse evidence ought to have been allowed in at the second trial. The judge made an error in law.
I’ve read both trial transcripts as they were available on westlaw when I was a law student. They were not even permitted to use the abuse as a defence to mitigate sentencing. That was a clear error in law and a violation of their right to make full answer and defence. I’m tired of men’s rights being violated by people who believe that men don’t have feelings. I’m tired of men being abused and it being permitted by the system. Abuse is abuse and trauma affects men every bit as much as it does women.
Ok. Given all that alleged abuse, they should have left. Murder wasn't justified imo.
We need to stop a) coddling spoiled parent killers and b) listening to any of the Kardashian family about anything ever at all.
Also, Kim Kardashian can write?? 😮
AI
😅😅
I agree completely, with one exception... she certainly has to be an expert on maintaining an a$$ five times the expected girth of an average person. I'd love to know her secret to keeping her body fit and trim while maintaining an a$$ normally found on a morbidly obese person without surgical intervention. Not so I can have a big butt too, but so I can avoid such a tremendous derriere! Hahaha!
#freeTheMenendezBrothers
@@alparkranger 😂😅
I respectfully disagree that they should stay in prison. I’ve seen a lot of deep dives into this case and if the abuse was as bad as the family says, I understand feeling like that might be the only way to be free. Their dad controlled everything and would have going forward. He was rich and powerful. Likely no one would have believed them. They had no protection by their own mother so why would they believe anyone else would protect them? I think they deserved to go to jail for murder but if that level of abuse is real, I think they have done their time for it. There have already been some fascinating docs on this case and I don’t think they got a fair shake on the second trial.
💯
Yes, so many people in the comment section do not understand this!
Spending spree
The abuse was not proven. The premeditated murders were proven. They could be disgusted by their father's money but no, they loved it.
@@hnr4994Eric actually told family members, cousins about the abuse well before they murdered their parents. He wanted to know if it was normal.
Kim felt she just wasn't annoying enough so she decided to set murderers free as a hobby to really drive it home
LOL
She kk just want to create massive attention to herself and freeing these two horrible people are the way to do it.
Perhaps Kim can take them in and be their guardian. She can set curfews and strict rules so they don't reoffend 😂
She'l probably let's them live with them like forever at their palace ... right
😂😂😂😂
spoiled children being defended by other spoiled children
@@artful1231 I think by "spoiled" you mean they have rich parents. And you believe that rich people can't be evil abusive violent sexual predators?
@@nevermind.abbs7 ur thier aorent didnt kill them so many other options beside murder why not jus punch and that still alful, it seem lik they was mad about not geting more money, end of day they should took the 25L and got out n 30/35 years , the court is not go change the judge dicision
You're defending a grapist and a grapist apologist. You're an awful person
If they were spoiled then who spoiled them??
I think you cannot underestimate the damage caused by one narcissistic parent, and a se* abuser. I think 30 years is long enough and they should be released. They should not however benefit financially from their crimes if that could be arranged under American Law.
Everyone says “they were adults, they could’ve left.” We have to remember that the most dangerous time in a victim’s life is when they try to leave their abuser. The father was powerful and controlling. Murder wasn’t the answer but they’ve served their time.
😂
I agree
No they didn't serve their time. The sentence was/is life WITHOUT parole!!! They are exactly where they should be, a jury of their peers found both guilty and spared them the death penalty!!
There is not one iota of evidence to support the contention that the father sexually abused anyone. The so-called bombshell letter, written not when the brothers were children but just months before the murder, just supports that the murders were planned way ahead. And the Menudo guy's story has been proven to be full of holes. He even told several people that he was hoping the ensuing publicity would jump-start his failed career. I do not believe the brothers were ever sexually abused. Lyle was and is a sociopath ( ask his girlfriends, and look at his police record BRFORE the murders) and Eric was a sad follower. The triggering event here was that Lyle, a career playboy who failed at everything he tried, found out that his father was disinheriting him. He then murdered his parents in cold blood and tried to erase the will.
They were abused in the worst way all their lives. Going by their 'adult ' age while ignoring their emotional age is irresponsible. The mother knew and didnt stop it, because SHE was motivated by money over protecting her children. They did their time, more than most. This is a rare time that id be fine with their release
Geez!
Tell it to the judge and see what happens.
@mulliganstew72 I don't have to. We'll see what happens🤷♀️. Hopefully they will have the facts that are woefully missing here
Another one with a degree in Netflix and Google.
@@hnr4994 That's funny. I'm betting you lack actual degrees
I truly couldn't care about Kim Kardashians opinion.
However I have always believed them having heard the testimonies of themselves and others. I can say as well that I have worked with complex trauma and CSE in teens and young adults, and from some of the intricacies they testified to that they were abused. Lyle and Erik do not say " it was justified" at all. They say they acted out of fear, which with their diagnosises and the childhood that they had is very likely they did see the situations differently. Trust me, when people suffer from complex trauma throughout their lives, people can react very differently to how other people can react. A single smell, sound, image can cause wild emotional responses and they can interpret hostility in situations that arent necessarily there.
Both of their parents were killed in the den, they didn't chase her around the house.
If it was premeditated, then why not do it with handguns, in beverley hills, when people would hear. Why not wait till they could get handguns? Why not stage a robbery? A break in? It was a crime of passion quite clearly.
Jerome oziel was having an affair with his patient who he asked to listen in at the door in order to blackmail both brothers. When Erik first saw Oziel he was reporting everything they discussed back to his father.
Lyle and Erik's testimonies have never changed. Kitty allowed both brothers to be abused by their father as well as physically and emotionally abusing them also. Pretty much their entire family want them released including jose and kitty's siblings? In fact nearly all of them were witnesses of different types of abuse they had seen.
So what is your opinion about the sentence then, given it was a violet couple of murders.
I believe they were molested..but I believe their motive was greed. That’s why their mother was killed.
Their mother molested them as well
Or maybe because the mom allowed it
@@T_Time_regardless that’s not how you handle things.
One of them said he and the mom had an inappropriate relationship. Both claimed she did things.
The mother was pretty terrible to the eldest, so getting raped by your father while hated by your mother that allows it to happen (and both claim she will molest them "softly" when they children)... At least Lyle killed her. Erik was amama's boy so that's why he was the most emotional since he was not as resentful.
The center of the question is whether they told the truth about the abuse.
So we’re both cousins also lying, as well as the Menudo boy who was r@ped by the dad so savagely he bled for a week?
It happens. I have heard of people who think they should remain in prison, but I. don’t think anyone thinks they’re making up the abuse
So we’re both cousins also lying, as well as the Menudo boy who was r@ped by the dad so savagely he bled for a week?
It happens. I have heard of people who think they should remain in prison, but I. don’t think anyone thinks they’re making up the abuse. If they do they never saw the testimony. Lyle would deserve an Oscar .
I don’t think they killed for money. The killings were brutal which showed the intensity of Their anger and hate. It was a very passionate murder. For both parents, which shows they hated both of them equally. Even Kitty’s sister said she can’t forgive her because she never protected those boys. So even with some premeditation, the crimes were a result of intense anger and an attempt to gain their power back. Unfortunately I do t think anyone would have believed them if they told on their dad. Every adult had failed them All their lives. They thought they only had each other and no support from the outside.
Amazing though how buying Rolex watches and Porsches can ease the pain .
@@5675492 yep shop therapy existed back in the day as well
@@5675492 somehow the parents couldn't teach them financial management. Too busy being perverts
@@5675492 I'm not defending them because murder is not a course I would have taken, but when I left my parent's abusive home for the first time when I was 19, I had a period of a year or two where I felt extremely happy, almost celebratory, and life was SO great. It's finally over! I was out partying, making friends, very happy and doing great at school and work. You wouldn't think I was abused. I was on top of the world, I was free! Like, "this is it! This is the life!" And then the C-PTSD symptoms started to slowly kick in... and then in my thirties I was like, ohhh crap, I'm mentally ill.
So I kinda get it. I mean, they were acting like two kids who were suddenly free with a lot of money more than two criminal masterminds who needed the money for some specific mega-investment. Not that they weren't criminals, but not exactly masterminds.
Yeah .....a spark of divinity as Nancy would say.
Just leaving ur abuser does not solve ur problem nor protect u from the abuser especially from a rich and powerful abuser.
Yea I had my ex smoked for cheap. I dident feel safe with her walking this Earth.
Their father removed them from the will. The motivation was money. Abuse BS came as defense strategy.
Exactly these people don’t understand it because they’ve probably never been through any type of abuse and live a great life with great normal parents
I respect dr Grandes perspective but sometimes i feel like he victim blames. Maybe he's just un biased or speaking objectively. I beleive them.
It's called accountability
Yeah I agree he’s victim blaming with this one. He’s awesome but missed the mark on this.
or maybe he is just harder to manipulate than you
1. If they want to eliminate the father?
Why would they kill their mom...chase her around the house.... ?
2.... Spending money right away?
They have a very unique way of grieving...
3... Even if their father was guilty..... Why not leave the house....
3. They knew exactly what they were doing...... BS...
Parents were raising criminals and were committing petty crimes......
Talk to any survivor of childhood SA where the mother was well aware of what was going on and ask their opinion on this. It should be pretty clear why they went after their mother then.
Today's generation just jump on feel good crusades without respect to reality
I understand...
I was a victim of child abuse ....
I do understand what you're saying....
But to kill them ..... Many people may have been abused... Do they end up becoming killers ?
These brothers were troubled since beginning n became criminals and were spoiled..
These Menendez "boys" could have moved out & they were not little kids when they pulled the triggers. Deal with other inmates that need legal help. 🤓
To top it off, they were 19 and 20 ... they should have left the "abuse". Many a 14 year old has run away from such abuse. It makes me chuckle that these two adults cried victim when their real intention was to live the baller life and get the inheritance without a moment's delay. Makes me chuckle and shake my head at the people sympathising with them and wanting to have them be released...
They were adults, call the police, leave. No sympathy.
Yeah, not sure how I feel about this analysis but I still love the channel😅
Yeah this is one of the few times I fully disagree with Dr. Grande
@@ang_roI was starting to be on Mendez brother side but why kill the mother? You guys said because she knew about it and did nothing but the brothers say they were putting her out of her misery. But she was running away trying to live when they killed her?
@@AnonJ-fx5fl There's actually a lot more to it. She was equally abusive and let the abuse of the father happen!
@@ang_ro same here
@@Irishjay_94 according to who just them or other witnesses?
Why is it okay to accept, " Battered Wife Syndrome" is real and give leniency. People dont say, "oh she have just left, life without parole for you!!". People have empathy to DV victims. Why is there no "Battered Child Syndrome"? Why is that sooo hard to believe? Should childhood abuse not be a factor?
Battered wife syndrome should not be used as a defense. It's often a cover for murder.
They were adults. They could have left. Instead they premeditated killing their parents. Like Dr grande said, both things can be true at the same time. Even if they were abused, it doesn’t justify MURDERING your parents. There’s plenty of people who are abused and they don’t go on to be killers
There is. It's called Complex Post Traumatic Syndrome or CPTSD. It stems from a child or adult receiving or being exposed to trauma/abuse over an extended period of time.
@mariahspapaya omg. Mentally, they were NOT adults. Get an eduction, please, before making ignorant comments.
@@cassandraotroy6325 I keep seeing these comments that mentally they were children. That assumption and diagnosis was made by a psychiatrist that the defense paid for. They literally paid him to say what they want him to say. It does not make it definitive fact. Legally they were adults and that’s all that matters
If they left, they would not get support. If they went to the authorities, they would be cut off. Jose used his money to control the people around them and groomed his children when they were 6 years old. For a couple of young boys who felt trapped, killing their parents was the only way to get out of the situation- and get the money. Also, the fact that Kitty was miserable and stayed in the marriage was proof of Jose's control over everyone. They were screwed-up kids because of the abuse; what their father did to them was gross. Maybe not a popular opinion here, but they have paid their dues, and are not a threat to society.
You're sick to defend such lying monsters they deleted their parents for a 14 million dollar death insurance ...go pray 🙏 for forgiveness 😤
Here’s my take on the Menendez case: yes they may have been abused, I suspect they have greatly embellished the extent that they were abused by their parents to gain sympathy from a judge or jury or the public. But the fact is at that time they were adults and they could leave, but they chose not to. Why? because they are spoiled, self-centered, lazy, useless brats. They were hanging around for an easy lifestyle and a free ride courtesy of mommy and daddy. And when mommy and daddy started to put some expectations on them to actually succeed in something, they decided to blow them away with 12 gauges, then immediately start living high on the hog on their parents money. These two psychopaths, regardless of any abuse that they endured, need to serve the sentence they were given.
Couldn't have said it any better. 👏
I agree with Dr. Grande. They are where they belong.
U forgot to say traumatised, that doesn't go away just because ur n adult.....get a clue n imagine what they suffered,vur disgusting
I was abused as a child by a woman and everyone made fun of me for it.
Do you have any idea what abuse trauma can lead someone do to ?
@@lovehandles2464 you are biased then
8:18 The incentive to not cause problems in prison is not wanting to get punched in the face by inmates.
Exactly
👆👆👆💯
Or stabbed or graped or any other number of things
I'm sorry premeditated murder does not deserve a lighter sentence than life in prison.
They should report the abuse
I think there are mitigating exceptions.
It does when you were molested and assaulted.
They should have just left. Too easy
@@justyna5924It was drilled into them from a young age that they would be killed if they ever told anyone. That's how abusers work, they know how to protect themselves and brainwash children to feel trapped and ashamed. People apparently still have no clue how psychologically complex this is and how your psyche is broken growing up with emotional and SA.
Their Father was also well connected in LA (and surely no coincidence he managed boy bands), I bet he part of those rings, they all protect each other, by now it should be clear how many of his kind run things there.
Ummm, no. Much like her stand on the moon landing, she's wrong about this as well.
P.S
Since when did any of the Kardashian's become experts in anything?
They are pretty good at being famous and making money.
I'm not a fan of the Kardashians at all, BUT Kim wants to follow in her father's footsteps and she went to law school. It seems to me she is taking this very seriously.
Probably experts on implants
they're good at polishing pipe.
@@badlandskid and plastic surgery.
Don't like to speculate, but in a situation like this, they should stay in prison.
Agreed.
Amen to that.
Yea it’s too much they thought about it bought the guns and everything
Not if they were SA. They were abused most probably since they were young. They were threatened, by their father. I'm sure there was shame involved and an imbarrassment.
I think it's time to set them free.
They couldn't have just left the mansion or called someone for help because their father was very influential and could hurt them. Their father was a vindictive man and even their mother had suffered his abuse. I don't think it is as easy as just walking away or asking for help. The only other 'help' they accessed was that unethical Oziel. Erik did tell his cousin that he was being abused. The allegations of child sexual abuse is compelling because it led to a hung jury for the first time and the boys were spared from the death penalty. Also, their relatives to this day corroborate the allegations of sexual abuse. I believe with the new evidence available, their case deserves to be taken up.
They still took two lives and made themselves judge, jury and executioners
@@Graycy808 They have been punished and are in jail.
With c-ptsd, their feeling they might be killed that night doesn't need to make sense. They had it, so acted on it. Im not shocked neither brother mentioned the SA at the time. Sure, they lived it up after their crime. I think most of us would at that age. I think they need released. The man SAed by Jose who came forward is an especially compelling witness who backs up both brother's claims. Is society at risk? No. They killed who needed to go. Could they have simply left that night? Again, no, the c-ptsd had them prisoners. You absolutely cannot comprehend what that's like to live daily unless you've been there. Dr. Grande's analysis is spot on, but if you flip the coin, I believe there's another side equally as valid. These boys really did get put through hell growing up.
Who cares or puts any weight on what Kim says? They need a better spokesperson if they want to be taken seriously.
I agree. I wish we could never hear from Kardashian again.
It is not just Kim. Ugh. It is the innocent program.
Donald Trump, aparently...
@@lauriefarmer2821 the irony of calling it the innocent program.
They are not innocent.
Is there anyone who cares what she thinks?
Yes, even in these comments 😂
@@purringbluzzmuffin8030 see P Diddy
Nope
I’m so sick of people trying to take Netflix shows as documentaries and crushing on the actors. Was on Reddit today and there was a load of posts saying how gorgeous Erik was 🤦🏼♀️
At the end of the day, they shot unarmed people. They may have been abused however they were not in imminent danger. It’s not self defence. It was pre-meditated. Therefore these guys are guilty of first degree murder.
Ha! You are so correct!….. years watching true crime videos, there are tons of people who commit similar crimes, but are very unfortunate looking….. ain’t nobody crying for their freedom….
I’ve heard conflicting things about the killings. But (as said in the court case) didn’t the parents or father threaten to kill the sons and then went out of sight somewhere in the home, and supposedly the sons were afraid because they didn’t know if their parents were going to re-appear with weapons so the sons started shooting?
Netflix got it wrong. Its not a documentary. If you watch the actual trial, you'll hear testimony from the brothers that BOTH PARENTS abused them.
No, they shot two monsters.
I feel the same. Is disgusting. The motivation was obviously money. They were not shy about spending them immediately afterwards.
The abuse just came as defense strategy. As if anyone is entitled to hunt people down like animals and kill them and just claim oh sorry I was abused. Oh okay then, carry on !
As adults they should have left home as opposed to murdering their parents but people who prey on children deserve punishment. Also, given the abuse, they weren’t well adjusted so taking a healthy life person’s point of view on potential solutions may not be realistic.
So many other options besides murder , he should jus punch and this still not right, they should jus cus them out n moved on , and the biggest factor after mistake is they should took the deal of 25L nstead of goin to trial they would been out n 30 years after doin 5 years after 25, so the court not change the judge decision, a lot of people make the mistake of not taking the 25L and can get out ,28-35 years , it seem lik they are spoiled and upset because thier parent didn giv them more money end of day shoudl took the 25£ n not go to trial
You take the abuse as a given, Mara- there is ZERO evidence of it.
We don't know if they are lying.
They lied about everything from the get go
About everything connected to the murders
Talk about rich privilege. The cops just immediately assumed they were innocent and didn't test them with the thought process of eliminating them as suspects.
Just my thoughts. If the evidence shows that sexual molestation over and over within the Father's so-called normal lifestyle then they have served enough and maybe too much time because they were in prison with such a dispicable father. As an eight year old, my neighbors had this same stuff going on and I'm glad I was able to Keep away from it all~ I am biased. Emotion played a role...anger and hatred came to a head.
If they were sexually abused that would create an emotional disturbance that would justify it. Not much evidence exists.
Kim K may need a lawyer for the Diddler involvement!
She failed the baby bar how many times? Years later, still not a professional but pretending like her father in law 🤡
A broken clock is right twice a day. Kim may be wrong about much, but she is using her platform for a good cause.
I believe the Menendez brothers. They were victims of horrible abuse from both parents. They served their time,, set them free
Dr. You're my FAVORITE UA-camr!
Same
Same!
"The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth" - African proverb and this is exactly what they did after going through so much abuse and bullying from their psychopath father, the mother was an accomplice. Regardless KK, they deserve a second chance, they have served in prison enough.
Nope
Yep
Source?
Maybe Kim can marry one of them and have another couple of children together.
😂😂
They should definitely be released, life sentence without parole is not justified in this case. They are not a danger to the public, they won't re-offend. They were horrifically abused, self preservation is a human instinct.
Where has she been the last 20 years? Only reason she's speaking on them now is because of the Netflix show. Virtue signaling at it's finest
I rarely disagree with Dr. grande. However, hearing them cry on the stand was believable. Dad was a POS and even though they were adults they still experienced the long time abuse. Mom didn’t protect them. Moms are supposed to protect. They have served 35 years.
Wow, you’re easily fooled by a couple of spoilt sociopaths, As you say they were adults , they had other options , there was no excuse for the savage way they murdered their mother , even if you could argue the murder of their father was justified
lol.
@@tillyt4054 The mother's own family including her sister and nieces have said they don't forgive her for what she did to her sons. You people are so ignorant.
💯
I believe them.
Thanks for video about this, It was suggested that both parents abused them, with father primarily. They were abused as little children and was horrific. They at least deserve a new trial so that all the evidence can be exposed. Also, was suggested that the father threatened their lives. But nobody knows everything unless the evidence is allowed to be presented.
Also, wondered Why didn't they leave home? Were they threatened if they did leave, even as they got older? unless all the evidence is presented, nobody knows. Still, they had to pay the consequences of murder which is wrong, regardless.
@@ginnyn9660 Until you have lived a life of emotional, physical, and sexual abuse, it's very hard to understand the trauma that it entails. IF what the boys testified to (in their first trial) is all true, they grew up completely abused their entire lives and felt threatened by their father in every way imaginable. They also allegedly told others about the abuse, and they were not believed.
Double Jeopardy.
Yeah that's why trials exsist.... DDDEEEERRRRRRRRRRRR
@@ginnyn9660 The son who was being r@ped was not allowed to leave the home to go to college, the father said that son had to stay home, though he was 18 (and assumedly continue to be r@ped)
If this s*x abuse happened it's horrible and repulsive but what they did during the murders and after. It was overkill imo. They need to stay where they are.
What was overkill
There is no such thing as an "overkill" for a child rapist.
Gypsy Rose Blanchard is free… so should Lyle and Erik be free…. They’ve served enough time. And Kim’s opinion means nothing to me.
No, Gypsy did not commit the act of murdering her mother. She may had planned it, but someone else committed the act. Both of these brothers committed the act by blowing the heck out of their parents with riffles at close range., Gypsy served her time. These guys have not.
@@TracyR4 I don't think the law makes that distinction. You don't have to pull the trigger to be as guilty as the one that does.
Her father was on the side of OJ Simpson so pretty much that tells you everything . Plus her mom said back then that Nicole was getting beat and knew he would kill her.
Some of y’all are dense. A member of the boy band Menudo literally signed an affidavit that the father drugged and sexually abused him. Sexual abuse knows no income boundaries.
Some of ya'll are super gullible. No one could ever lie. Not especially on an affidavit where it can't be proven if it's lie.
If they were sexually abused that would create an emotional disturbance that would justify it. Not much evidence exists.
Yes but it does not justify murder
@@subterraneanhomesickalien666 and what motive did he have to do that?? Use some common sense.
@@nevermind.abbs7…for attention. People lie for attention all the time. Especially aging pop stars who miss the adoration of fame.
Another great video, Dr Grande, love your channel!❤
I love Dr. Grandes sarcasm. I cried laughing when he referred to Kim Kardashians "unparalleled wisdom" 😂😂😂
they don’t justify the murders, they explain why they did it at the time. both of them regret what they did
They would be justified if that happened. There isn't much evidence that their dad did that.
I bet they regret it. Prison life mustn’t be fun.
And you know this how?
Where was the regret when they did the deed, lied about it for an extended period, and were blowing through the money?
Murderers can also be liars.
I have to disagree. I think they should be released. Everyone has an opinion but if you haven’t been sexually abused then you have no idea what the brothers were thinking or how they processed what was happening to them. Everyone says they could’ve left but their dad was literally involved of every aspect of their life.
The most dangerous time in a victim’s life is when they plan to leave their abuser. The father was powerful and controlling
😂
The brothers robbed neighbors and stole from family and the father was always covering for them, too late the father realized by doing this he put himself in danger.
Not surprised. Many children deal with the stress of a toxic living environment with delinquent acts
The mother was not innocent. She was fully aware of the abuse, was present as it happened and enabled it. To keep HER fancy lifestyle she pimped out her children to her husband.
she also abused them
Maybe.
She sure did 👍
You don’t know that , just because you watched a Netflix hit piece on his parents doesn’t mean you know this family
These were two adults that had , no jobs and a wrapsheet. I wouldn’t trust what they had to say. Even their own psychiatrist deemed they were sociopaths. They were both adults. Idk life was so bad they could have left and made a life of their own. They chose to stay. They belong in prison right where they belong. Regardless if the ‘ weren’t that great they didn’t deserve to die and in the way they did as well. They premeditated their parent’s murder. Letting them go would send a message to others that it’s okay to murder your parents if you don’t like them. Just no. They are a threat to society. Period.
Wow, titles do matter. I read Kim Kardashian and almost decided not to watch.
I have to disagree. Manslaughter would have been a far more appropriate charge. There is ample evidence that they were abused, that their father was in fact a monster, and that their mother let it all happen. Could they simply have left? Yes. But did they think they could? That there was any hope that their father would not find them? That's the issue. Is what they did wrong? Yes. But it wasn't murder. At most it was manslaughter. And then there are the legal issues. A therapist secretly recording their patients in order to hand those recordings over to police is not only illegal but it should render that evidence and any evidence discovered as a result of it, including statements made by the brothers, inadmissible. I think the case caused a lot of parents to undertake a very brief period of very uncomfortable self-reflection. They wondered whether their own children would one day turn on them for all the bad things they have done. And instead of growing from that self-reflection and becoming better people - and better parents - they chose to demonize the brothers instead. And let's not even get into the fact that if they were sisters instead of brothers they never would have been convicted in the first place. They should be released. Nothing more is served by them continuing to be imprisoned.
It was premeditated which makes it murder
Manslaughter? For a planned double homicide involving multiple rounds?
@@tonyaparrish2308 Not if circumstances mitigate the alleged premeditation. Might I point out that owning a firearm for self-defense is a constitutional right and thus not evidence of anything. And under California law if a person kills another in an honest but unreasonable belief that the use of deadly force was necessary for self-defense they may be found guilty of voluntary manslaughter instead of murder. Given the circumstances there is ample evidence that the brothers believed that their parents were a threat to their lives. Was this in fact the case? Perhaps. Perhaps not. Did the brothers have the option of simply running away? Yes. But did they believe that that was actually an option given years of abuse and extreme control that their parents had subjected them to? I don't think it is unreasonable to conclude that they genuinely but mistakenly thought that it wasn't an option. Which makes it a case of imperfect self-defense. Which makes the killings voluntary manslaughter not murder. Which is a maximum of 11 years. Even with two sentences running consecutively they would have been released years ago.
They could have simply gotten on the bus together and gone to a different state and gotten jobs even if it was just as waiters.
@@enjoystraveling Yes. But did they actually think that was an option? That's the issue here. If this was a case of a woman who was abused by her husband for 20 years and fearing for her life killed him would you be saying that she could have just gotten on a bus? I doubt it. I'm not saying they are innocent. What they did was wrong. But there are mitigating circumstances and under California imperfect self-defense is a partial defense. It lowers murder to voluntary manslaughter. Which I think is what should have happened. They still would have got two 11 year sentences. So it's not like they would have gotten away with it. But it would have been more appropriate. There's a lot of sexism at play in this case.
I'm glad Dr Grande comes to the same conclusion I did. I've spoken to so many people who think the mere whiff of a suggestion of SA by their father means that the brothers should be freed, completely disregarding the pre-meditation, the fact they could have left at any time, the blatant execution of their mother, their dishonesty etc... it was about the money, as simple as that.
One of the reporters who attended the first trial said it best: "If you think they should have life without parole, you weren't in that courtroom". Eric in particular gave such ghastly testimony in such a compelling way that one reporter said he would have had to be as skilled as Marlon Brando to have been acting and making that up. Having read Paul Mones' book called "When a Child Kills", a case study of eight children who committed matricide/patricide, I would say that the brothers fit that mold. The killers in that book, all abused of course, believed without a doubt that their father or mother was going to kill them. They all concluded after their incarceration that prison was better than home. Psychologists testified that the brothers had the emotional intelligence of 8-year-olds who would have considered it unthinkable that they could survive by just leaving home.
One of my major accomplushments in my 80 years of life so far is that I have NEVER seen a single epidode of the Kardashian show and wouldn't recognize any of them if they were in the same room as me.
No sympathy for pedos
But yes for murderers?
@@Graycy808 The brothers were victims first! And yes, people do feel sympathy for victims. They deserved prison time, but not a life sentence
Exactly. Thank you. The victim blaming in these comments and from the Doctors own mouth is disgusting.
@@Leanah30what proof there is that they were victims 😅
Both of them are pathological liars!!
I'm disappointed. This episode had completely ignored what trauma from severe, long-term abuse can do to a person. I'm moved by Kim Kardashian's humanity.
God bless you! Kim Kardashian is compassionate, and so are you!
It surprising that as a counsellor , dr grande didn’t focus enough (or at all) of what severe long term control and SA can do to a child. He controlled everything. They didn’t even have a house key. Their dad had just told them they had to live home PT while going away to school so he could continue to abuse them. To them, there was no end in sight. Even as adults. It’s not as easy as just hopping in a car- they had been under his control and fearful all their lives.
People seem to just be forgetting that those two were adults and if they were truly being abused or felt afraid they were perfectly free to simply leave their family home and go off on their own.
Yes they were grown men and knew exactly what they were doing.
Of course. People are crazy..,,poor boys,, 😮 seriously they hunted own mother like hunters hunt animals! They were oh so much hurting inside that they spend all the money that they stole from parents. To me it looks like they couldn't care less. Spoiled, entitled, creepy murderers.
I think it's far more complicated than that when you have abusive parents. Their relationship with their dad was complex, with a mix of total admiration, fear, love, hate. The father created a fusional bond with his boys. And a strong family law of loyalty. Why do you think so many people stay in abusive relationships even though they're adults? Unhealthy relationships create fusion. Their parents were their whole world. And they were only 19 and 21, that's not really being adults.
And taking their parents to court would mean facing them in the courtroom, with the boys feeling like traitors. Of course it would have been the healthiest and most courageous thing to do.
@@labotraduc8448 there is literally zero excuse for them to not just leave so I don’t want to hear excuses from you fangirls with crushes. They wanted the money, it was always all about the money, it was that simple.
Dr grande, i dont think society is alright with parents hitting, bullying and raping their children.
No, but it sure sounds like he thinks it's alright. Smh. This video is really ignorant.
Both of them are pathological liars!! Lyle threatened to kill the doctor and asked his ex-girlfriend to lie for him, before her testimony. This is another reason why he didn't testify during their last trial.
It's their word against someone who can't say anything
@@jcrnda exactly!! well said!
Society shouldn’t be OK with two adults planning a double homicide and a bunch of nitwits on social media who watched a Netflix series lining up to excuse MURDER!
Guilty. No release necessary.
I have been aghast at some of the arguments to release the Menendez Bros (not retry, flat out release without a retrial) with the only reason being the admittedly horrible allegations of abuse weighed against their parents. Those actions should be condemned, of course ... but so should murder. And no personal experience, no matter how traumatic, can be justification for murder. I feel like too many have taken that Netflix miniseries to heart instead of thinking about it in their heads!
It's not about justifying murder at all, it's about a lighter sentence in light of the events and in light of a very low chance of reoffence.
I think people should actually watch the first trial themselves before forming strong opinions.
And no personal experience, no matter how traumatic, can be justification for murder-- Bullshit. There is only so much you should be expected to take in this world. Sometimes death is semi-justice. That being said, I'd have to see their evidence.
All the sympathisisers and I have one thing in common. The sympathy wouldn't be there if it were the Mendez sisters who committed the crime. As a dude I'm not into hybristophilia 😂
I didn't see the Netflix series. 🙋♀️
@@Dani-lc9hq Again, my issue is not with a re-investigation or a re-trial. I am all for both. BUT the prevailing public reaction has been to release them without any further legal examination or possible consequence.
I think they've done enough time. I believe what happened to them wasn't even considered. It was premeditated but they've served enough time.
Those boys were raised to be narcissists and they did believe they'd die when their father cut them out of the will.
Hahaha
Maybe their upbringing made them cold and calculating, so now they wanted revenge and compensation for all the harm they suffered in the past.
I mean that’s kind of how it is today. All the the wealth has been created by boomers.
Let's be real, how is Kim Kardashian qualified to make such a judgment? Please!
She actually has a law degree!!! Not that it qualifies her, but yeah I was surprised to hear she even went to college!
You’re so silly. Because she’s OJ’s goddaughter. He didn’t do it either.
@@Graycy808 she passed the “baby bar”. She’s not a real lawyer. She didn’t go to formal college either, she did “alternate route studies”.
Kim gives bad bjs
@@CL-lo4wdApparently she passed after four attempts.
If Kim trusts them so much and helps get released, she should hire them as her live-in nannies for her kids.
If Kim thinks they should be released then they should never be allowed out. She's wrong every time.
The Kardashian women probably think they're hot.
😂😂😂
I’m glad to hear that you are one of the few who actually have common sense and can see this for what it is. The Brothers are exactly where they belong. There is not solid proof that they were abused. Especially by their mother. The fact that they took their dad‘s money to pay for a high priced attorney to drag his name and kitties name through the mud is absolutely horrific crime against humanity. Thank you for attempting to bring common sense to the general public
Thank you! Has the world gone MAD??? I followed this case- the sexual abuse excuse was not even mentioned until the brothers were on trial- not one word. There is literally ZERO evidence of sexual abuse, zero, Menudo boy's pathetic attempt at publicity nonwithstanding.His story completely fell apart. These men murdered their parents for greed and because the ringleader, Lyle, is a confirmed sociopath. People talk as if the sexual abuse is a given- it was made up because it was the only possible mitigating factor. NONE of the brothers actions that night-or any other- support the idea that they were either abused or in fear for their lives. Thank you for being a voice of reason here. 2 human beings are dead.
but there is proof the father was a child molester
Other people in the family also confirmed witnessing abuse. Why do you think rich people can't be abusers?
@@DavidWilliams-by2ne I could be wrong, David, but I believe the other family members said they HEARD about abuse, not that they witnessed it first-hand. If their family is anything like mine, stories get passed around all the time, get embellished and are colored by all kinds of things. Of course rich people can abuse. They can also be liars, and both brothers (especially Lyle) had a long history of lying and antisocial behavior before the murders.
If the other family members witnessed child abuse, where is the evidence?? Where are the police reports, where are the calls to child protective services? Where are the phone records, school documentation, etc.? Where are the medical records- the brothers would have to have had injuries. I am not saying there should be hundreds of reports, but not ONE???? There is not a SINGLE verifying piece of evidence for abuse that supposedly happened for over a decade!! And by the way, for every family member that said they heard about abuse, there were a dozen more that said the parents were extremely loving and caring, and never saw or heard of ANY abuse.
They could have left home. But they wanted the loot on top of their revenge. Dangerous people who know right from wrong. They were old enough to leave home. They could have exposed their father for revenge instead. While I have sympathy for abuse victims, this is not how one deals with it. People making excuses because 'we are in different times' are just making excuses. Sadly, because the likelihood that they would do the same thing if they were in the brothers' same shoes, is probably prevalant.
Sure, they can move into her guest room.
11:10 “Society is not ok with children murdering their parents.” Then how do you explain Gypsy Rose?
Feminists. lol
Murdered for their parents inheritance.
In my opinion, the brothers could have left at any time. Pack up, get in the car and leave. I’d like to know why their father removed them from his will. Did either son have a job? Were they simply living at home and having fun? This story doesn’t make sense. If they left they could threaten their father with revealing the abuse if he came after them.
Again in my opinion, if the brothers were simply living their lives at home and spending their father’s money then they were a couple of freeloaders. Save enough money to get the heck out of there and never speak to their parents again. I care nothing about Kim Kardashian’s opinion on this case.
They made lame attempts to. The father funded all the hobbied and education he put them on (they couldn't choose), so the oldest moved out after getting accepted into a college far from home. Lyle had alrady started to invest in real state and the fashion industry so he was getting his money if I remember correctly. He had wanted to help Erik move out as well when he finished college, but things went to shit during family visits when Lyle discovered the father was still raping Erik. Allegedly, when Lyle comfronted him about this (the father had told Lyle whe he stopped raping him in his early teens that he had stopped raping Erik too), the father threatened to kill them (as usual), move strings around to fuck up the carreers he had made them have, and of course threaten to take away all financial support and take them out of his will. Not too long after the murders took place. Also, after the revelation the father told Erik that he would not be allawed to live on campus during college, he would be at home getting rape das often as always... So yeah, not exactly as easy as move out. The father was too controlling to just let them be free from him if they didn't do what they wanted, specially Erik. Not that brothers were humble in any way, they were already used to luxury.
@@terryKessler42719 In my opinion, I can't know what damage is done to children of that kind of abuse, except that abused women are so groomed and traumatized that it takes an average of 7 attempts to leave their abuser that we know of. Now imagine a life of control and abuse. Wait...I'm assuming that you have any empathy (or education about chronic PTSD) at all🤷♀️
@@cassandraotroy6325sociopaths and narcissists exploit empathy
@@terryKessler42719 How about doing research about the case before stating an opinion?
@@paunaic5460
These are mostly allegations….many of which are not substantiated. 😂
Many people can corroborate that Jose was controlling but no one but the brothers can corroborate the claim that Jose was threatening to kill them due to “family secrets/abuse” Some of their friends have corroborated that though Erik was trying to go pro, while Jose wanted him to go to college.
Jose is super controlling….but the other evidence shows that they murdered for the money & freedom from being controlled. Their abuse allegations is their only defense. 😂😂
They are still locked up, because there is yet no evidence convincing enough to get them out. I think their lust for luxury and partying is going to be the biggest obstacle. Hearsay and letters that suddenly appear don't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that they were abused.
"why don't victims just simply leave their abusers?" i hate that question. c'mon dr. grande, you should know better.
They thought the father was about to kill them? Why chase down and kill the mother? No, they should stay in jail.
I am in NO doubt the father would have killed them if they started to tell. Cause he threatend them!!!!! And the proof of molestation in the court case are sickening!!!! It is easy to judge, for everyone that has never experienced anything like what these brothers did.
THIS 💯💯💯
It is sickening what people wrote in this comment section 💔
Anyone who is ok with having the brothers released should be equally ok with having them as roommates.
What's that you say ? No ? Why not ? These poor boys are perfectly harmless victims of abuse so having them in a couple of bedrooms down the hall should not be an issue.
Something wasn't right with that family. We will never know if SA took place, but assume for a minute it did. Should they die in jail? I don't think so. I hope they get out, and I would not be afraid of them. That home had some kind of bad juju. It's now gone, and the men are different people all these years later.
They were 19 & 21-old enough to leave home and get away from abuse.
Right, it was not self defense, it was murder.
You obviously don’t understand abuse. Just like an adult woman is old enough to leave her abuser but it’s hard. Why? Because it usually ends in her death.
@@GC-pq6vm 2 spoilt brats is not the same as domestic abuse.
@@realhousewifeoftransylvania1.0 Educated or BRAINWASHED.
These spoiled brats wouldn't leave because of the money
I believe the boys that they were abused. I think if they had only killed their father, and were believed about the abuse, it might have resulted in jury nullification. But the killing of their mother was their undoing. It was murder, and it was done to remove her as a witness, and as a way to gain their inheritance. I believe them that they were abused, but I don't believe killing their mother was justified, even with the mental health that would have resulted from their trauma.
You have to live what they lived to make judgements on their actions. They may have been adults but that doesn't mean they knew they could leave anytime. 21 isnt that old and when someone who was supposed to love you had power like that over you your whole life, you don't think you can just leave. They weren't thinking like well adjusted young people. They were thinking like lifelong prisoners in their own home. When you're about the same thing as a POW from young childhood, you feel your only option for escape is to kill your captor. The money was a bonus. I think they would have done the same thing if they were poor. The mother was a rage killing.
This is just my opinion and I'm unqualified to made a diagnosis.
My mother was frontally brain injured, making her less able to regulate her emotions and violent at times. As well, she had a stressful childhood, and I think she may have had BPD. Dealing with this, I too had a stressful childhood. What I did was save as much money as I could, found a college and job a couple hours away from home, and escaped for good. I went to school with a gal who's father was raping her and her sister from the time they were children. Her mother spent all her time in her bedroom, to avoid facing what was going on and doing anything about it. They did exactly the same thing - saved money and moved away ASAP.
These two are probably just as narcissistic and sociopathic as their parents. They believed they could get away with murder. Instead of putting their allowance aside, getting jobs, going to school to support themselves, etc, they rolled the dice.