MTB Hub Tech | Everything You Should Know To Get The Best Out Of Your Mountain Bike Hubs
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- Опубліковано 9 лип 2024
- Mountain bike hubs can be pretty confusing! Consider: what axle spacing? Do you want a pawl or ratchet ring system? ultra-fast or slightly less engagement? What spoke type do you need and why does it even matter? There's a lot of tech going on in mountain bike hubs, and they're right in the firing line of mud and grit from the trails we ride so it's important to remember to service them. This video helps answer your questions on what to look for, and how to get the most from your mountain bike hubs.
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What do you look for in a set of hubs? Let us know 👇
For the new or unskilled mechanic- DT-Swiss ratchet style; you'll feel like a hero and they'll do the job. For the brand and price snob who'll never touch their own stuff- Chris King. For you finicky roadie type MTBer's; titanium loose bearing style Shimano XTR's. Artsy hipster colorway stylists need Hope for sure, and those folks who absolutely *need* THE most complex of techy-tech; Industry Nine. For the frugal or parsimonious, it's hard to go wrong with Shimano hubs of whatever series you rock personally, and for myself Hadley. The rest is mostly rebadged or rubbish or both- 'nuff said.
Generally, how much noise is generated whilst free wheeling .
mostly..sound and ease of maintenance
can you do a video about bottom brackets if there isnt already one
We need a wheel building guide!
Stop playing music in your videos.
When I was a child, I dream of being a doctor. Now I dream of having Doddy as my neighbor. Man.
Dunno HOW you do it Doddy! How the fook do you make EVERYTHING enjoyable and interesting. Absolute natural mate. Keep up the amazing work. GMBN IS Diddy, Blake and Neil 🤘
Very important fact that it overlooked quite often. The amount of engagement points in a freehub does not correspond to the angle of the pedal movement. It just refers to the movement of the cassette. If you are in a very low gear at the back you have to move your pedals a lot more to get the freehub body to engage.
ua-cam.com/video/w4nYsMGknwE/v-deo.html
Wich ppl don't realize is a thing somehow.
True, but the less you coast and the more you pedal, the less all that engagement really matters. You're gonna have to pedal to get very far! More Engagements only really makes a big difference in very slow technical trialsy terrain where you need to ratchet the pedals lots to avoid pedal strike.
While a higher engagement hub may offer a mechanically stronger connection, plenty of big races have been won on 3 pawl hubs such as Shimano's or Campy.
I love my Chris Kings for the best bearings in the industry. Their driver is almost unbreakable! But I still ride old XT and XTR and Campy wheels too. They're excellent valued, well designed and well proven hubs. They just get a bad rap from lazy riders who ignore their bearings.
@@rollinrat4850 You're right, but judging by some comments most people - especially roadies - just like how these hubs sound. That said, I am really happy with my 18t DT Swiss 350.
@@manueldeubler1127 I'm a wheel builder for about 30 years now. I recommend and sell mostly Shimano, Chris King, DT and Campagnolo hubs. I also love much older hubs. I hate landfill. I try to use things that can be maintained to last indefinitely. There's other good brands out there but also lots of overpriced junk. I'll recommend what I know works well and what I'd use myself. I refuse to sell crap just to make a sale. That might bite me in the ass later.
Have probably watched this video on hubs three or four times. And still get something from it every time. Many thanks.
i watch a lot of videos and In my opinion you are top of the line when it comes to in depth concise information ,gmbn blessed to have you.That said the whole team is on point I learn a lot from you blokes!!!! Cheers
Thanks Doddy, that's the most comprehensive video I've seen on hubs. Lots of great info.
Great video! I have been waiting for this for long. Cheers!
Glad I bought some quality hubs. Can't go wrong with Hope Pro 4's
I also want those hubs, dream hubs for me actually
Same. Loving my HP4’s 👍🏽
IMO they are the best deal for quality hubs. 350s are good too but if you're going to upgrade the rachet it adds to the cost.
No apostrophe...
Yeah have to agree, I have DT350s and they're absolute rubbish. Why DT even make the 350 is mind-boggling because it's such a shit system. It just ruins their reputation I mean fees are absolute horrible hubs entry-level shite. 🤦♂️ @dtswiss
Wow, I’ve been trying to learn this for 6 months and this explained it all!!
Excellent overview - you’ve clarified several topics I had been wondering about for some time. Thanks!
ua-cam.com/video/w4nYsMGknwE/v-deo.html
Very informative, thank you.
Currently rebuilding my very old ('07) Shimano Parallax Hubs. Can't believe they are still going strong with no replacement parts! These hubs are super quiet, I love the feeling when I am out on the trail alone, very peaceful.
I like louder hubs. The louder the better
Excellent video, wish I had seen this before I built my last set of wheels. I appreciate the “why” you include in selecting hubs. When you’re learning, knowing what each component does and why it is used would have been helpful. I used shimano XT hubs last time but thinking about the DTSwiss 350. The XTs worked great on my recent 45 mile weekend
Great video with every detail from someone who knows what he's talking about.
I remember the rear hub on at least one of my early mountain bikes having a 130mm rear hub. Then it went 135mm when 7 speed cassettes came out.
Amazing, detailed explanation guys!
ua-cam.com/video/w4nYsMGknwE/v-deo.html
Great video.
You are the best.
Greeting from Costa Rica central america.
Great overview. Thanks gents
Just a side note, the cassetes that have multiple parts and are made out of steel , will cut also through a microspline freehub body. It is the difference of material steel (hard) like on a cheaper deore cassette and aluminium (soft) on the freehub.
Damnit, Doddy. Just when I thought I had hubs somewhat figured out you throw in kickback?? Now I gotta learn a little more.
I love my bike more and more with every upgrade so far, maintenance tweak, and educational vid. I do at the present have a slight crunchy sound coming from the rear hub still even after a maintenance at a bike shop. They fixed the pedals from slipping ahead, which happened every now and again, but the crunchy is still there a bit mildly rumbling through the bike while pedaling. Maybe they added some grease somehow without actually taking anything apart. Who knows?
I have the Shimano FH-MT410-B Microspline Rear Freehub.
I am picking up my new Chris King/DT Swiss wheels tomorrow, nice to have this video today for some extra info :)
Can't go wrong with Chris king hubs
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CK are the best bearing components on earth. Nobody else makes their own bearings specifically intended for their components. CK bearings are serviceable and extremely well sealed. You don't throw these bearings away! They have the potential to literally last your lifetime if properly maintained. They are also prohibitively expensive!
Bearings are a very important part of a bicycle. We ROLL on them and they help transmit power. Many riders ignore them until they fail!
Most blingy, loud and colorful hubs use off the shelf cartridge bearings that were actually designed for use in high rpm electric motors!
Chris King components are quite expensive yet a great value IF you properly maintain them, ride lots and value long term reliability.
Now that sounds sweet! Enjoy the swarming bees!!!
@@rollinrat4850 Ha, ha! Where there's a CK discussion, there's Rollin' Rat!
Nicely done guys, thanks
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Here's me, with a 6 bolt rotor on the rear, and a centrelock on the front. Stock is centrelock.. I have gotten myself a custom wheel, and the hub (project 321 boost) only comes with a 6 bolt mount. Rim is a Flow MK3.
For those wondering:
Loud, 216 POE, standard bearings, gold.
2020 Trance 2.
This has been very informative and will help with diagnosing any issues 👌🏻.
More videos like this are needed for idiots like me.
Great to see you found this video useful @MTB trail rider! Be sure to keep an eye out for more advanced mechanical videos like this one in 2022! 👍
The best hub video. Gracias
Glad you think so Dennis! Hope it helps
Thanks for the explanation on engagement. About the bodies, I think microspline is much better, the smaller cogs being separate from the rest of the cassette.
Good Video ❤️
The lateral or fore-aft stiffness of a spoke has _nothing_ to do with the stiffness of the wheel, because the spokes aren't fixed at the ends. Only tension, bracing angle, cross pattern, and elongation (related to butting vs straight gauge) affect the wheel stiffness
Great comprehensive guide!
Maybe a little addition to the axle part: DT Swiss hubs can be changed from thru-axle to quickrelease via adaptor. So my 135mm-QR-boys can just buy (compatible) 142mm DT hubs and adaptors. Had to search the whole Internet twice for this info...
Same with your 141 boys too
Hope has been doing that for years. $15-$20 for endcaps.
Me gusta mucho toda la formación que proporciona, ojalá pudieran subtitular los blogs
Could you talk about how to measure spoke length for a straight pull hub wheel build?
A lot of even fairly expensive bikes come with OEM hubs that often made by companies like formula. They often aren’t the best and seem to be more difficult to service. It would be great to have a video on servicing formula OEM hubs. I know we can upgrade to a better set of hubs/wheels but I want to get as much use as possible out if the OEM ones.
Formula are sealed freehubs and so is just easier to replace the entire unit.
This is definitely a great overview of hubs however I feel as if you should have mentioned the instantaneous engagement system from onyx that uses a sprag clutch. Also I can understand why you may prefer the ratchet system over pawls, however its worth noting that the I9 hydra achieves .52 degrees of engagement using the pawl system. This system should have received more content time however seeing as DT sponsored this video I can understand why the pawl and sprag systems didn't get any love even though they are the superior systems when it comes to instant engagement. Love the content.
The Onyx/Sprag system is great, I've used the Classic model for 4 years. Spins great when not pedaling but as an ultra endurance rider/racer I don't glide often. For XC they're too heavy and the spongy feeling you get with this hub especially with the Vespar is lost efficiency. You get instant engagement yes, yet, it actually gives a bit everytime you lay into the watts when the sprags are finding their home in the hub (when you accelerate or go up a hill). The longer the race or ride the more lost efficiency. Love the Oynx hub on the casual trail ride, for the casual rider or even for the down hill type but when racing especially at distances from 50-100 miles not the best choice.
Hello Doddys from Madeira island, congrats on the amazing program. Question time, now he are seeing people up sizing the rotors liking four more power in the braking aspect. But bigger can bring more stress in the suspension and frame mountings. Is this anything to keep in mind??
Thanks and keep the amazing work going 👍👍👌👌
I actually stripped my DT Swiss rear hub threads on the free hub n my local stockest said he’d never seen anything like it before.! Opted for the Hope pro4 BOOST never looked bavk
I would not do a trail spoke replacement, but great information
great video as always Doddy. I recently purchased a preowned 2017 Scott Spark 940, the previous owner upgraded the wheels to DT SWISS X1825. I cant find any info as to what hub it comes with. it is the 240?
I just bought my gf a new wheelset from dt swiss (370hubs). Their wheels are so well made!
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I managed to break some spokes at the J bend, although I had a car door opened on me when I was accelerating and ended up on morphine for the pain!
Lol, "bespoke wheels", good one!
5:36 you forgot to mention the other option of lock ring, the bb-tool one. 15mm axels (front hubs) can only have that
ua-cam.com/video/w4nYsMGknwE/v-deo.html
B...... brilliant, cheers
Don't forget the 370 hubs that come stock on some bikes
Yes that’s what I have.
I have a question for you tech guys. If that hub that you have there had a 20" counter weight running inside the spokes of the standard wheel, but in the opposite direction, would that cancel out the gyroscopic limitations of larger wheels in downhill applications? Would that allow faster directional changes? Has this ever been tested?
I have 2021 Deore XT hub in the rear and it makes a creaking noise with hard pedaling. I've had it taken apart and regreased, which solved the noise for about 100 miles and it came right back, any ideas?
If you have a bike with a 160mm fork and 142mm rear travel, would upgrading your ratchet from 36t to 54t be more or less advantageous?
Bmx has settled on 36 spokes. Alienation tried to introduce 28 to the front but 36 has remained the dominant. Nice and stiff yet not too heavy plus 36 is really nice for both 3 and 4 cross lacing with 3 Cross being the more popular lacing, especially with home wheel builders. Tree tried to bring straight pull to Freestyle-bmx but even racers still seem to favour traditional J bends. An Argos Special some years back was a garish gold with 48 spoke wheels but it was a gimmick.
Disc brakes have kind of killed the 36 vibe for mtb. I've seen a retro build with a bmx front hub as the old looseball was snagged and couldn't be replaced so he went for cheap and available.
So great! Not much more to say.
Great video as always, but you didn't mention any sprague type hubs, for example Onyx.
Can the two bearings in the dt 350 hub be replaced without disassembling the ring nut?
If I'm trying to upgrade my wheels. Should I just focus on both Hubs or just the rear?
I know 15mm is the standard for the front axle but can you please explain why we don't we see 20mm thru-axles on the new "super enduro" 38mm ZEB and FOX and 37mm Mezzer forks? The new 38mm and 37mm stanchion forks are designed to be stronger and stiffer which seems to be a good thing for fast dh/enduro riding right? Wouldn't it make sense to continue that trend and make the thru-axle stiffer? As you have mentioned there seems to be a "stiffness sweet spot" for wheels and bars, would a 20mm thru-axle be too stiff as opposed to the standard 15mm? Also why is the rear axle 12mm and not 15mm?? Logically a thicker thru axle would make the rear end stiffer thus reducing lateral flex and resulting in better tracking and cornering at speed. Please offer your thoughts/opinions.
The Berd spokes kind of turn everything you explained about how spokes work on its head... Spokes actually work under tension not compression, meaning they pull the rim toward the hub not hold it out. Would love to see you talk about Berd spokes.
I have a 240 front hub that has play in the bearings and its only the thing that i have never done on my bike by my self replacing them i mean and i would love to see how its done.
ua-cam.com/video/w4nYsMGknwE/v-deo.html
can anyone recommend a good mtb 27.5 rear wheel with a good hub for ebiking
what would happen if you don't use the special grease with the ratchet system?
Could you touch on sprag clutch hubs?
Hey Doddy, can I use bearings specific grease to lube the ratchets of the free hub? Thanks
Use what the manufacturer recommends. There are specific driver lubes.
Thick grease in cooler temperatures can cause driver problems and freewheeling in both directions!
Phil Wood's Tenacious oil is a decent universal driver lube. I use it in my Shimano freehubs. I use DTs grease in their hubs and Chris King ring drive oil in their hubs, but I've used thinner lubes too. You just have to lube them more often.
But try to use what the hub manufacturer recommends.
What’s your opinion on magnetic hubs?
I think I will try Microspline, I've told about the Microspoline not getting chewed up by people who had it. SO if I am able to get a Microspline freehub I will upgrade it.
If you have a bolt through rear hub is it usually possible to upgrade the old style freehub body to an xd / microspline version?.. or is a whole new hub likely to be required?
is the new 350 hubs can stil be converted to 9mm qr?
Are the three freehub types interchangeable? Can you swap a Shimano for an XD?
My all- city hubs are awesome and dead quiet!! Great vid guys but i dont like when it sounds like a nest of pissed off bees are on my arse the whole ride. To me it's like a car with a really loud exhaust ....I like it quiet.
lovely
Are 240 hubs EXP-exclusive now? I prefer the old ratchet style as I don't have to unscrew anything if I ever upgrade for a finer engagement.
ua-cam.com/video/w4nYsMGknwE/v-deo.html
If you’re in a high gear for peddle sections on dh trails, while descending, if you are going at a speed that if you tried to peddle, and the hub engaged, the same peddle kickback would happen at the same speed through rough terrain when the suspension compressed right?
In a high gear seems you would get peddle kickback slowing/braking bumps and exiting every turn with rough terrain to get back up to speed right? And higher hub engagement would just make the kickback worse?
Fk'ing Doddy knows *everything* about bikes. It's amazing.
Quicker engagement for obstacle and technical riding as well
Doesn't really make a difference.
Oh Yes it does. It's the exact reason why I upgraded. Need it on super techy uphill climbs.
How much rear travel before you have to worry about kick back with higher engagement?
It really depends not on the travel but the suspension design. There are some shorter travel bikes with lots of chain growth, some longer travel bikes with small amounts of chain growth and vice versa. The most extreme example of the latter being single pivot designs with idler wheels which have no chain growth at all no matter the travel. Doddy on his Nukeproof Reactor fitted a system at the cranks which introduces a bit of give/delay to replicate the effect of a slower engagement in order to tackle pedal kickback, so obviously the chaingrowth on his bike was too much for the speed of hub engagement.
I was wondering about the 141 qr boost spacing (for a rear hub), and fitting replacement hubs for them. I don't see this spacing from major hub manufacturers. I have seen limited info that I can get 142 hubs, and use an adapter kit, and was wondering if this is the route to go when I upgrade my hubs
I have the 141 qr on my bike, it's basically a 148 (boost) with different end caps
Thicknesses of spokes that you can put on 36 spoke hub for mountain bike different sizes that upgrade
DT have steel freehub bodies avaliable aftermarket, so the biting problem is gone if you do the upgrade.
Shimano as well
yeah they're way heavier tho, who wants that?
@@deeznutz8033 EMTB riders
I am going into the 3rd week waiting for a delivery for a Shimano free hub for my 2020 Specialized Turbo Levo . They say in it shipping but can't say when it will arrive . Summer flying by and I can't ride. The number on mine is fh-mt510-b . Would any of the other models be compatible ? I need the 28 hole version.
what about the "berd" string spokes
Is it possible to change a freehub driver for a different system on hubs? Or do you need to buy a new hub if you're switching from XD to Microspline and such?
most brands have different drivers available for a hub model
I have just purchased set of alloys with hub and disk brake, yet the hub seems to be 148mm and mine apparently is 142mm. I assume we can expand the width with spacers, yet ... can we refuse it? i.e. ... could I replace the current ones and I get the alloy to fit my bicycle?
Thank you
Just bought a pair of Industry 9 hubs to build up a sweet high end wheel set from the OEM wheels I have now. Thanks for the information about the spokes, especially the reasons why bladed spokes would be used for MTB. Very informative and timely for me.
#ASKGMBNtech across your various videos, you’ve all used a Garmin of some description, I’m looking into changing out my current smart watch for something more sports oriented and wanted your thoughts on say the Fenix vs Apple Watch 6, etc
Thanks
convert qr 9x100 front hub to 15x110 thru axle can you help
#askgmbntech Hi, I have the boost DT 240 center lock on my mountain bike. I've tried 4 or 5 different cassette tools, but there is not enough space between the end cap and the locking ring on the front wheel; therefore I am not able to uninstall the disc rotor. No problem with the back wheel. I wonder if I installed the wrong end cap. Thank you
Doddy should know that straight gauge are not stronger than butted spokes! Surprised DT didn't poke him on that :)
Wil it fit a 6’3 man?
I hope DT Swiss fixed the problems with the new Exp hubs not engaging with their newest version. Check out their website to see if your hub is affected
I have that problem with my 240 exp.
Which is faster, the closed axle 6200 or the normal axle
10/10
Hi! Thanks for all the informative and entertaining videos! I live in Hawaii and just got my new hard tail in. It’s a Kona Mahuna and I don’t like the play in the cranks so I wanted to upgrade the hubs. According to the website it’s a Shimano 135x10mm. Just from that info can I upgrade it to a 36 tooth without having to change the whole rear hub and just get the free gun body? If so, what will work? Thanks! #askgmbntech
Onyx Vesper 💪
ua-cam.com/video/w4nYsMGknwE/v-deo.html
Whats the difference between a Road hub and a MTB hub?
DT hub in terms of torque capacity specs are above pretty much anything else. There is a reason DT proudly advertise 400NM max for mtb and 500NM max for hybrid emtb line and other brands don't. Pawl hubs are inferior by design, the only advantage is engagement if that's your thing.
I'm a mechanic, machinist and a long time wheel builder. Ive seen a few DT star ratchets break under very strong, abusive
or negligent riders. Its pretty rare but they certainly do break.
I do like DT's hubs. They're well designed, simple and parts are easily available. I still recommend them, build wheels with them, service them and sell them often. They're good hubs! I still ride a very old DT Hugi rear hub on my bikepacking rig. Ive Only overhauled it once since '93!
Check out Chris King's ring drive. Supposedly tested to 600ft/lbs of torque. As much as a pretty fast race car. The driver's connection gets stronger the harder you pedal. A helical gear screw might be a good description, but I'm no engineer! Ive never seen one fail yet. The only way it can fail would be to strip off these big 'threads' or burst the hub shell itself.
Every neglected or abused CK hub Ive ever serviced was completely restorable. Ive even overhauled completely contaminated bearings. Nobody else makes their own bearings either. Ive heard of them breaking on tandems but never seen it.
I'm pretty sure most hubs fail simply because of negligence. Shimano makes great hubs that last, but get a bad rap from ignorant idiots often afraid or too lazy to get their hands dirty.
My personal CK hubs are 15-25 years old, ALL on the original bearings and parts.
#AskGMBNTech i have hubs with various pre-tention bits (most have set screws) but are not sure how to "operate" them compared to classic cup and cone "feel". The hub manuals are not helpful, can you help me out?
ua-cam.com/video/w4nYsMGknwE/v-deo.html
Not a hub question, but every time I see those totems on your wall, I wonder if anybody ever bastardised a set of totems with a set of fox 40 lowers to suit 27.5 or 29er wheels. Seems like a viable experiment
With the right tyre, 27.5 fits already..
I gained knowledge by watching this but no good will transfer because my bicycle is of the Freewheel old school design.
Couldn’t get hold of DT Swiss wheels for love or money
What damage can be caused if I don’t grease my hubs regularly can it cause a loss in speed ?
You'll prematurely wear your bearings. If it's a cartridge bearing hub, the bearings are expendable and not really serviceable. If it's a loose ball hub (like Shimanos) you can damage the races permanently. All drivers will eventually fail as well. Ignore your junk and you could be in for a long walk or that call of shame.
Nothing lasts forever! Maintain your junk, pay a shop to do it or just keep adding to landfill and buying 'new junk'.
Bearings are really important. We roll on them! Yet many riders ignore them because they're afraid to get their hands greasy!
I mostly ride single speed mountain bikes for me durability and engagement are my priorities. From my experience nothing more durable then DT Swiss, I run the 54 for more engagement. I have had poor luck with I-9 classics, I destroy them in a few months. I have one year on Onynx classic (very heavy) on my geared hardtail, love the instant engagement and silence, they have slightly squishy feel that the mt DT 240's dont have but it's not necessarily bad just different. I am going to build a new supper light single speed and would love a DT 180 wheelset just not excited about the price$ of the 180's is the $$ worth 60 grams per wheel???
Talking about freehubs, if you change your cassette can this cause too much load shred the splines? I had a 9sp 12-36t on my wheel and have just changed it to an 11-51t Deore and had a problem with the cassette turning without the wheel
well if the splines on the freehubbody are chewed away yes, if not its a different problem , ( i asume you used a chain whip while removing the casette to stop the backwards rotation on the hub or coasting like it would do if you werent pedaling)
The reason will be pretty sure that the grease in your freehub has clogged the pawls so they don't engage any more. Change the freehub or the entire hub/wheel. Maintenance of the freehub is possible, but very annoying and needs a special tool. Beware of thousands of tiny bearing balls spreading across the shop. ^^
Doddy, 15:27 - Microspline can't slip or get damaged? I've seen on UA-cam lots of cases of Microspline getting gouged by the cassette. Problem is not a freehub body, but Shimano cassette construction (I'm referring to loose gears, which cut into freehub body) - Sram got a much better solution. With XD driver, my freehub body looks like new after 3 years of intensive use and few thousand kilometres.
Salsa have 157 on the spearfish cx bike