Letter From A Cult Leader - Shiny Happy People | Friends With Davey - Lindsey & Shelise
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- Lindsey Williams lived the Shiny Happy People Cult Headquarters, working as an assistant to cult leader, Bill Gothard. After years of manipulation, control and abuse, Lindsey finally escaped, but Gothard wasn't ready to let go.
Lindsey shares how a narcissistic cult leader tried to stop her from marrying the love of her life, including the sinister letter he wrote to her future husband!
Lindsey Williams, from the Prime Video's "Shiny Happy People" documentary, Shelise Ann Sola, from the popular "Cults To Consciousness" UA-cam series, and Davey Jackson sit down in Los Angeles, CA to catch up on the latest cult news.
Watch Lindsey's interview with Shelise on Cults To Consciousness!
• Preyed On at 18 by “Sh...
Watch Davey's interview with Jonathan on Cults To Consciousness!
• Preyed On at 18 by “Sh...
Follow on social media:
Lindsey Williams - @thecultchronicles
Shelise Ann Sola - @cultstoconsciousness
Davey Jackson - @daveyjax
Friends With Davey - @friendswithdavey
Listen to Davey Jackson livestreaming with a new friend every Wednesday at 8:00PM CST.
I so deeply wish for parents to wake up. To be vulnerable and seek professional help so we can reconnect and heal.
Yes! My mom is finally coming around to seek help.
This right here 🔥🙏🏻❤️
Like the Ballerina Farm!
That ship has sailed a long time ago for me.
But I wish all of you good luck with that! 🙂👍
Such a great conversation with you two! I could've easily chatted for hours! Love you both!😘
Yall made me wish I lived in LA instead of Texas just a little bit so we could hang out more often!! 🙏🏻❤️
Just now catching the video! So glad y'all got together! Awesome conversation. ❤ Y'all are all so strong for making it through and thriving.
@daveyjaxx Where in Texas do you live? I am in Forney, Texas, and would love to see you in person.
“As the Patriarch of the podcast…” I choked on my drink when Davey said that 😅
I was in a silly goofy mood 😂😂🙏🏻❤️
@@daveyjaxx I needed the laugh, so I was delighted 😁😅🤗💞
Same!
It’s not true we love them more, I actually discovered you via Shelise who was the first cult creator I subbed to.
In that letter, I hear Bill trying to make Lindsay seem like a fickle girl to dissuade her husband from getting involved with her.. "she has had 3 other love interests" Sick!!
Yes! I picked up on that too. How gross.
Apart from the outward lie (old Billie probably counts himself as a LOVE interest 🤢🤪) - how would that be negative?
She was an adult at the time!
This purity culture bullshit is disgusting. Bill was subtly slut shaming her when he claimed that she had “strong feelings for 3 men in the last few years” in the I kissed dating goodbye era, that’s what bill was doing, purity culture slut shaming. I experienced this a lot in my church experience so #triggered.
9:05 oh yeah it feels very clout gobliny to me
back in the 70s newly married, my husband ws called to a southern baptist church in stamps ark to be music youth and ed minister.
the pastor told me point blank i was to wear dresses at all times and suggested i get rid of our cats
my horse came a week later and i rode her to church like i had done all the time in Calif.
and the shit hit the fan. my husband was called into the office, "WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOUR WAYWARD WIFE---SHE RODE HER HORSE TO CHURCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" the pastor demanded a public apology before the whole church. of course my husband refused and within a short time we left. the pastor had made the fact that i wore pants and rode my horse to church a sinful act!!!
that is what patriarchy/complementarianism does when there is authority of male over female. (note it would not work if it was female over male either) the point is the only authority in the church is Christ. any one in " leadership" is actually in service to the other members.
and patriarchy has no limits. the rules can be whatever the leader decides and as you can see the results, the fruit is rotten because of all the abuse that comes about
Thanks for that contribution!! I'm glad you got away in time...
Yay you and your husband!! I might go to church if I could ride my horse!! 😅
@@irateoverlord.theresa1324 the irony is that the southern bapt church which is what that church in stamps was, is now the support behind so many cowboy churches where they build riding arenas right next to the parking lot !!!!!
I feel like you have lived all of our dream: who doesn’t want to ride their very own horse to work?!! Why do we not have way more horses; we are doing this wrong!
@@irateoverlord.theresa1324 the irony is there are so many cowboy churches all over texas and ark and other states and backed by the so. bapt church---
so yes if you have a safe horse safe route to ride along and safe place to tie the horse while in church, go for it. and of course have a shovel in a pre-planned spot to clean up after the horse even though there may be more shi*t going on in the church which is not so easy to clean up😉
I'm so glad to see you all together! I found both Lindsey & Davey on C2C. Now I've binged all of Shelise's content, so I've made my way to Davey's channel. 😅 Can't wait to hear what you all have to say.
14:37 sounds like she’s getting paid. Scientology does that all the time.
I can stand up for my beliefs without being toxic to others.
48:22 Ohhh. All the while you were referring to Bryce, I thought Lindsay was married to co-host Bryce 😅
I discovered (now subscribed to) your channel through Shelise's, who I discovered through Andrew Gold's channel at the time he was interviewing ex-cult members.
I found your whole iblp particularly interesting as I had never heard of it before.
You guys are inspiring 💪
These podcasts have been so cathartic for me as someone who grew up IBLP-adjacent, whose parents have never acknowledged, let alone apologized, for their abuse. Thanks for all you do, it helps knowing even a few parents have watched these and seen the error in their ways, even if mine never do. ❤
Love this collab! Such great points and conversations... And good laughs.
As someone who was spanked, I am appalled someone would use a windshield wiper on their child.
*disclaimer, I don't believe spanking is the best form of discipline and believe it often can be abusive, but I don't believe it's always evil or abusive... It's possible to be just neutral.
I was a defiant little kid and did get spanked quite a few times, but only until probably age 6 or 7 until grounding and things could be more effectively used.
My family had never heard of 'to train up a child'. It was only ever on the butt over clothes, no more than 1 at a time and done by a gentle caring mom who sat me down and talked to me about it before and after and didn't do it out of anger.... so I wasn't traumatized thankfully!
I personally was traumatized by a father yelling in the home. I would choose spankings over that any day (in my personal experience).
I totally acknowledge that it is very traumatizing to many people and that for many it's not even what I'm calling spanking.... it's really beatings.
But either way, I don't say any of this to invalidate anyone's experiences.
I just thought it might be helpful to share 1 perspective in the middle because I have seen many comments lately by people talking about how it is pure evil for a parent to ever spank a child. I just want to share that I don't believe that many parents are evil or that even the action itself is evil in certain contextes.
To be clear, I'm not condoning it and NOT saying just because I wasn't traumatized that it is good to do. But things like discipline of kids is not black and white always. Certain things really crush kids more than others.
I would never advise someone to spank though and I love to recommend Love and Logic parenting techniques.
But I do find sometimes people seem to lump any spanking all together with abuse and I just disagree. I wouldn't advise anyone to yell/raise their voice loudly at your child either but it can happen and it's not necessarily 'evil' and doesn't necessarily break trust or what not. There are more nuances to it than that.
But I think the Bible verses used for spanking are mistaken and that also as culture changes we just have so many better ways.
I work with abuse victims every week and it's so tragic and breaks my heart.... Actually causes some secondary trauma at times so I don't take it lightly. So shout out to all the survivors of the Shiny Happy People cult!
That was kinda all over the place, but hopefully my thoughts help someone.
Hey, all! Why am I so interested in this? I don't know, but it is fascinating. I appreciate the great info and history.
I also feel like, having been in high school in the 1970s, I am lucky my parents weren't religious evangelical protestants. I was never sent to a weird culty institution like IBLP. I feel very fortunate. My ex-husband attended one of the seminars at the Long Beach Arena when he was a teen. I found the notebook decades later. It certainly didn't help my then-awful marriage.
I really enjoy whenever I see videos with any of you, but I'll say Davey you're my favorite 😅 I had seen your video about your experience first. It kinda "hit a nerve" and it helped me kinda think back and self reflect. I would always make jokes about it, but i ended up having a complete breadown and ended up in the hospital from the issues the long term stress has caused my body. Im still suffering from the health issues. Long story short I'm in trauma therapy now trying emdr. Thanks for sharing your story, it's a part of why I was able to look inward at my past church issues. The kind of church that me and my classmates were made to stand in a line in a fake firing squad to make us think we were about to be ended so we cannot deny Christ as a test, but they made us think it was real. We all sobbed and when they said it was just to teach us a lesson we werent going to perish, surpsirise that didnt help 😅 a bunch of other bigger stuff happened, but I wanted to share a bit because feel like you talk down to yourself/undersell your importance in talking about things. It helped me. Your video talking about your experience really helped me. Thank you 💖
Edit: sorry this was so long 😭
You’re allowed to take up space. What you have to say is valuable too. ❤ I’m so sorry for the deep trauma that was done to you.
WTAF? Who came up with such an outlandish idea? I send you lots of support ❤
The lengths our “leaders” will go to in an attempt to scare us into their beliefs is sickening 😓 So glad these conversations have been helpful for you and thank you so much for the support and love 🙏🏻❤️
I'm so happy for what you're doing. I did not grow up in any cult, but the way my mother abused us and how I still have those emotional scars at my age. I'm from South Africa and I'm 65
Saying there is no abuse in a subgroup because you experienced none in that subgroup is like saying theres no fish in the ocean because you found none in your spoon.
Brilliantly stated
That was a great "junte" (like we say in PR Spanish). I have to say I was in a state of disbelief when Davey was reading the letter out loud.
Holly McLean's son here. I'm actually the 4th of 9 siblings! Working with Davey on some time on his pod to share my perspective. THANKS!
I can’t WAIT for this!!!!
Everyone has a different perspective of the universe so of course not everyone experiences the same thing in the same place. And offenders are very very good at hiding from those they’re it preying on.
Break the silence. Break the cycle.
I would prefer my kids to let me know how I failed them so I can apologize for anything I’ve missed apologizing for already. Dead dog serious
I remember Roger Magnussen once stating at Knoxville, that a man who was demonstrating integrity in an anecdotal story, "must have been an ATI dad." I.e. one cannot be virtuous without being in ATI and one cannot be in ATI without being virtuous. What an arrogant ass.
Excited to be here always!
My favorite TRIO Together at Last! ❤❤❤❤🔥🔥🔥🔥
Oh you guys, you honour me and make me blush- thanks so much for your positive comments on my podcasts with Davey. Love you all!
Christine your such a light thank you so much 🙏🏻❤️
I am so upset about this lady. I have not been in a cult but have grown up in a bad situation. For this woman to say people haven’t experienced what they talk about she needs to actually have to live their life! 😖
I have yet to meet a survivor whose family wasn’t presenting a shiny happy face to the world. It’s how they hide.
Sound's like ex-scientology victim's community, SPTV, version of another "Stephanie" just wow
I sent a request in to C2C to be interviewed and I really hope I hear back. It’s so interesting listening to all the individual experiences in ATI. I spent time at ITC and DTC. But I was so oblivious to what was going on because my home was so bad, the training centers and the yearly conference in Knoxville were my escape and a vacation. I listen to these stories now and it’s crazy because they are making a lot of things that noticed while there make so much sense. Anyway, thanks for sharing!!
Haha😂 Davey I will totally put my hand up 👋 you have amazing friends ❤I often send lines to the guests on your show. I am tuning in to see your amazing ladies today. Davey, you surround yourself with great people. Thanks for coming on the show today 🫶 ladies. Davey, good mix and good discussions as always 👍
It makes me wonder how many more similar letters were written and sent by Bill Gothard and how many people didn't marry because of him and his manipulation. I would not want to be him when it's his turn to stand before the Lord.
And btw if you're Catholic you aren't welcome. I've seen letters sent to Catholics asking for information or the material from iblp and there were told the material was not approved for them
Predators like Gothard target their prey. Lions do not eat all the gazelle in the herd; they chase after a select few for multiple reasons. It's the same with Gothard; he chooses a woman like Lara because she is probably vulnerable, could get away with it due to her family, or he perceives her as weak somehow. Men like Gothard have to be strategic about who they prey upon and how many victims they have. If he went after every woman he would not be able to gain power and the power he got.
Sorry to get all "biblical" but I was listening to your podcast, after the part where you read the letter, took a break to work on a book refuting the Pearls, uh from the Bible.... Haha I opened up to 1 Timothy 4:1-3 which says, " The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3 They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth." Whatever you think of the Bible, that is just hilarious timing.......according to the Bible, that would make Gothard a hypocritical liar. Not calling him any names, just quoting scripture :).
All such well spoken people! Thank you for educating the public on these topics!
gothard may be gone but the church is still infiltrated with wolves and this patriarchal type of thinking.
but God has His remnant
the shame is the damage that has been done to some who have been so hurt, so traumatized that they cannot have any belief system, that the name of Jesus causes pain when He came to show perfect love and acceptance. My heart aches for those people.
This hour flew by i was surprised when the episode ended. I could have listened to the 3 of you talk for hours. And it was fun to see shelise be able to be more relaxed then she can be when shes hosting on her channel.
Is Gothard is in jail? Did anyone ever go to the police for the abuses?
No. His "ministry" terminated him. He's over 80 years old. The statutes of limitations had expired by the time someone started reporting hum to law enforcement. A group was begun called Grace (something) that brought survivors together to realize each one was not alone. Survivors don't always realize until their 40's that people who were leaders could be wrong or harmful.
You don’t want what you experienced to have happened and so when someone starts saying it didn’t it really throws your brain into OMFGWTH.
It's so comforting to be "in the room" for conversations like this, thank you for everything you do! 💚✨
“Overseeing her welfare”? WTF?! He did the exact opposite!!!! 😡Lindsey, I’m so sorry you had to spend time with that slimy worm!!! 😰
That supposed survey Bill quotes cracked me up! 😂 If it were true, my husband and I would have had the perfect marriage because we were those exact ages when we got married. We had so many issues in our relationship due to both of us being raised in a culty church and thanks to Mr Gothard managing to brainwash my parents and me through IBLP and ATI. Thankfully, my husband wasn’t brainwashed as badly as I was and had no experience with IBLP or ATI, but it was the culty brainwashing that caused all the problems in our marriage! Thankfully, 25 years later, we are now happily married, after working through all the culty brainwashing and learning to think for ourselves. I’m so thankful we are all out of the cult and healing from the trauma it caused us.
Lindsay, Bill invited me to Headquarters back in the mid-90’s. Thank God it never worked out for me to go! I’m so sorry for what you have been through, and am inspired by what you are doing with your life now. I found you and Davey from listening to Shelise. Her podcast was the first cult podcast I found. I love listening to all three of you!
Thank you for this great episode, I love y'all for your great YT content 😊
Anyway just saying, just correcting.. pretty sure it is pronounced Holy M Clean, contrary to spelling.
Well, I love you Davey lol!!! ❤
First met you thru Shelise and just loveeee Lindsay !!!
I have liked and subbed and looking forward to more Bruh!!! 😘
I can't believe all these poor people were hurt behind religion it's just sad that this woman needs help😢
I love this so much! You 3 will have to do this again, was so enjoyable 😉
Holly sounds like one of those wannabe influencers who controversy hop just trying to milk attention for the clicks and views
I’ve seen grifters continually reinvent themselves and go from cause to cause as a career. They are always inflammatory because that’s the point, but I doubt they really care about any of it.
Hitting my child with *anything* is just NO. My father made me keep the wooden paddle on the back of my bedroom door so that every time you opened or closed the door thwap thwap thwap reminding who was in control of the house. And to suggest using something *after* you’ve felt it yourself and know it hurts? SMDH
I can TOTALLY relate to that. It was so common in my family. That when I got into a serious relationship with my partner (I am gay, so he is a man) I lost control and did domestic violence. It has taken lots of therapy to fix that I no longer would ever hit anyone. But my family basically taught me that if you are angry and out of control hitting something is an option when it is never an option. No one should ever be afraid that someone will hit them. I regret what I did, and have had to do lots of amends for my actions. Sending y'all love
@@greg-op2jh I applaud the hard work that you’re doing! I am also an intergenerational cycle-breaker, and it has been a really challenging journey, but I’m not the same person today, as the person I started as. I am constantly learning and seeking and finding new resources as I go - stay self-aware and you are doing amazing IMO 💜⚡️
Rooting for you. Blessed be, Dear One!
Thank you so much, guys, for doing these series of podcasts on the Gothard cult and the Shiny Happy People documentary. People need to know just how insidious and dangerous this cult was and still is.
My parents completely embraced the teachings of Gothard after hearing about him from our pastor in our Free Will Baptist Church in the mid 1980s, especially after forcing me to attend one of his Seminars on Basic Youth Conflicts when I was 14 in the early 1980s. They kept me in private Christian schools from 4th grade - 11th grade, when I got kicked out of school because they found what was basically a love letter I'd written to my male friend who I'd starting secretly having sex with. But I can vividly remember my parents, especially my dad, verbally and sometimes physically assaulting me if I didn't do what they wanted, telling me I was rebelling, was out of God's will for my life, and was being controlled by Demons. 🙄
When I was 16, we moved to Virginia Beach, because God had "told my dad he was called to be a preacher" and he needed to go to Southeastern Free Will Baptist Bible College there, because they were fully embracing the Gothard's teachings, but the FWB Bible College in Nashville, were I grew up and we moved from, was preaching the "Heresy" that when Jesus turned the wine to water that it was actually alcoholic wine, and not just Welch's grape juice. So, we HAD to move from Nashville to Virginia Beach so we could go to where God TRULY wanted dad to go to college.
I ran away from home at age 17 after getting kicked out of school and them forcing me to take home school classes. I called my aunt in TN to ask if I could come back to TN and live with them, but they had already heard from my parents and the line was traced by the Police, who picked me up about 30 minutes later and took me back home.
When I got back home, after the police had left, my dad came in my room and said he was "Going to beat me like I'd never been beat before." Problem was, I was bigger than he was now. I looked him dead in the eyes and said "No you're not!" He hauled off and hit me in the face, busting my nose and knocking me back on my bed. But something inside of me snapped and before he could take another swing, I grabbed him by his hair, stuck my foot in his gut and literally catapulted him over my bed into the wall behind us, jumped up and got him in a headlock and began bashing his face in while choking him and I was screaming "I'm gonna kill you, I'm gonna kill you." My mother had run into the room and was screaming at me to stop. Something made me realize he was gasping for breath (he has asthma) and I realized I was going to kill him if I didn't stop. I let him go stood up over him. Then I realized what my bedroom looked like. My bleeding nose had slung blood all over my bed. Blood was all over my face and all over my shirt and my pants and all over my dad. It was splattered all over two of my walls and it literally looked like a murder scene from some horror movie.
My mom ran and got my dad's asthma inhaler and gave it to him, and after a few minutes he was breathing okay. I was in the bathroom trying to clean up my face and noticing how my nose was swelling up. Dad stumbled into the bathroom and he was crying and he asked me if I was okay. I replied and said "Why did you have to hit me like that." He replied "Because I needed to break your rebellious will." Sound familiar?! I told him I could call the police back right now and they'd arrest him and take him to jail if they saw how I looked and saw my bedroom with blood splattered all over it, and he started to cry more. He asked "Are you going to?" I replied "No, because I don't know what would happen to mom and my sister." They were so dependent on him, and he was the only income we had. But that fight was a HUGE turning point in my relationship with my family. After that my dad was afraid to confront me or berate or try to guilt me into "succumbing to his will." I was DEFINITELY out from under the umbrella!
If there can be a funny part of that story it's that later that afternoon the youth pastor from our church one of the deacons stopped by to see if we were okay and if they could help with anything. My nose was swollen up the size of a baseball, but my dad was MUCH worse. Both of his eyes were almost swollen shut and red and his lip was swollen in two or three places from where I had busted it, and he could barely talk. It was one of the most awkward conversations you could ever imagine, because it was obvious to them we'd fought and my dad had definitely gotten the worst of it.
All of the guilt-shaming and brainwashing I had from my parents and my church kept me from really accepting that I was gay until I was 28 years old. I am MUCH MUCH happier and free from all that guilt and shame now, and I've been together with a wonderful, loving, caring and sexy husband for over 15 years now. But even after all that, watching the Shiny Happy People documentary and listening to your blog videos makes me feel physically sick. I'm so glad to be free of all that bullshit. But what's even scarier now is that there are SO many Republicans who were brought up in conservative churches in the 1970s-2010s that were brainwashed with all the misogynistic, authoritarian crap from Bill Gothard and the IBPL and ATI, and now they are in place in powerful offices of government and are trying to turn our country into Bill Gothard's kingdom on earth.
Wow! Glad you're song good now❤
Oscar Longbottom may need his own channel, I think
Love all of your guys channels, you all are so inspiring and fun to listen to, thank you for the different perspectives!
Thanks for this session!!!!
Love you all together! ❤ great episode. Thank you ❤
Yes to the channel hope everything works out that you are able to you know I will be the😊
It’s so hard to take ownership of your bad behavior and ask forgiveness from your kids. I wasn’t in a cult. I was a mom starting at the age of 20 and didn’t know how to be a mom. All my kids are well adjusted. But so many times I can’t fall asleep for crying and begging God for forgiveness. I’ve had to forgive myself and accept myself and tell myself that I need to be understanding and accepting of anything my kids might say to move on. ❤❤❤
Much love to Davey, Shalise & Lindsey! You are all so empathetic and excellent at helping people cope with traumatic events in their lives. 😚Hugs!!
I saw Shelise, and I clicked- this is very cool
I am so so so very excited about this!! I love all three of you so so so so much!!!
Thank you for being here!
Can we start a petition to make that deluded woman change her name? I have now gained a lot of empathy for all the people named Karen. 😣
At 27:38 minutes left to go , is when you make the "in the year 2000" With Conan O'Brian & Andy reference
Can I make a comment after the video?
Comments will appear as normal comments now that the live has ended 🙂👍
❤
Shelise, you are showing the true colors of kindness and grace and charity by sharing your studio and being on the other side of the table. Good Job!
Mavis teaches typing!!
A guy I worked with put the Umbrella of Authority diagram on his FB story- best part is it's a black church!!
I love your dog
Here
I really need to know where in Oakbrook. I had no idea this crap was that close to me!
It has the address on Google, looks like on the border of hinsdale. This has all made me took at this part of illinois differently. I don't know if the area affected bill or vise versa, but there is so much of that stuff throughout here even without the terminology.
The red hat thing… wasn’t sure about that one. The MAGA cult has ruined that hat.
Hahaha that’s why I needed him to turn around to show what was on the hat LOL
My parents realized the religiosity of IBLP and moved on, but a cult? That's an overstatement. It was a person's choice to move on. Its a huge stretch to say parents were abusive for enrolling kids in IBLP. Give me a break. Of course abusive parents would gravitate toward something like this, but it is what you make it. Most parents wanted to teach their kids to be moral and upright humans. I was at headquarters too, went to Russia, etc. I met many of my lifelong friends there. I have personal letters from Bill too. I see where she's coming from, but it seems to me you're trying to make this into something it isn't. And if the rule is no kissing (makes sense in this setting) it wasnt a virtue that you did it. Move on and live your life.