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How Are Gray Market Watches Heavily Discounted ? Where Do They Get Their Watches ?
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- Опубліковано 14 сер 2024
- How Are Gray Market Watches Heavily Discounted ? Where Do They Get Their Watches ?
In today's episode of Federico Talks Watches I talk about the watch industry and gray market watch dealers. How do they get their watches? How do they discount their watches? Where do they come from? Hopefully I will shed some light on these questions in tonights episode.
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This is the best explanation of the grey market I have ever heard. Also, it's nice to hear this from the perspective of someone who isn't lobbying on behalf of manufacturers against consumers availing themselves of the deep discounts to be found in the grey market.
Fed, great video...please do more vids on the industry! Thanks!!
Will do my friend.
Yes! Please more industry insider vids.
Yes.
With the exception of Rolex, (maybe Patek, but that is out of my price bracket) it is very hard to understand why anybody buys from an AD. The 30 minutes you spend in the AD being complemented by the staff can literally cost you thousand of dollars.
It would be cheaper to hire an actor to pick up your watch from Fedex, hand deliver it with white gloves, set and fit the watch, and spend half an hour telling you how handsome you are.
Del Corbett That last part is very important: you can price haggle with ADs. You can’t do that online.
You can offers a price on a few online sellers these days. I did it with a navitimer going for 6k I hit the make and offer at 5k and they excepted it. I ultimitly backed out when they couldn't tell me how old the watch was. I got the impression they were getting the watch from a third party.
With exception of Rolex I have always received a good discount with AD. The recent exception was the IWC boutique in Dubai, so I went to an iWC exclusive AD in another mall and got the discount I wanted. The next upside is with the AD duty free, combined I have been able to buy some new pieces at ‘unworn’ nearly new prices on the internet. Then of course you can get the nice services and some goodies too 😁
With regards to Warranty not buying from an AD will not void the warranty or prohibit you from the warranty. Hi The warranty lies within the Watch not from where you buy it. U.S. laws prohibit practices like this.
@@FutureWarlordOfHomestead Who cares about warranty? If I am saving two or three thousand dollars (or more) on the purchase price, let it break, I'll have it fixed for a thousand bucks and still save money. I never once thought about a warranty when buying a grey market watch. In fact, if you are spending $10k on a watch and have to think about what a repair may cost, you can't afford the watch.
That "give me those 20 watches that don't sell well and 3 Daytonas" is pretty much in line with what I experienced when I was working in the music and media industry - the "ask" is just reversed. Radio stations want to broadcast big name artists before anybody else ; record labels allow them to, but only if they broadcast smaller artists from their roster as well. Super interesting and insightful, thank you! (Edit: by the way, none of this was confusing... it was crystal-clear!)
FINALLY someone explains how these GM dealers buy their watches. I’ve been through many vids declaring how to approach the business, but they never go over how the inventory itself is acquired. Thank you!
You are a respectable person that tells the truth , I learned alot from you , all the best merry xmas
U
Wasn’t confusing at all. Very informative and educational. Thank you taking the time and effort to post.
SIR Federico, this is TOP 3 BEST VIDEOS YOU EVER MADE ... this is something that 97% of dealers wanna keep behind the curtain 🤭🤭🤭FANTASTIC VIDEO 🔥
Thank you my friend. I mean I didnt really provide any secret information, I think if anyone really studied the situation it would be pretty clear. But i really appreciate that you enjoyed it my friend. Cheers!
I happen to live near some industrial parks that have yards full of unsold new cars. There are rumours that the cars eventually get scrapped. Something similar happens with new fashion clothing that doesn't sell - it gets destroyed rather than being allowed to be sold on the market at a discount where it might bring prices down. Thank goodness there's a grey market for watches and perfectly nice, unworn Omegas and Breitlings aren't getting smashed to maintain scarcity/high prices
This is good to know, I was looking at an Omega and the AD hinted at a 10% discount, I know I can get it at the airport for 15% less. I guess I can be a bit pushier when I go to make my purchase knowing they have a bit more wiggle room
AD's are like car dealerships.
basically.
You think Rolex ADs are selling to their mates at the moment to make some extra cash on the side??
@@FedericoTalksWatches no AD's are worse there is not 37%-50% mark up on a vehicle lol
Complex issue simply explained! Thanks Fed.
Fed, every horological enthusiast youtube channel brings something of themselves to a perspective audience. What you bring is honesty, integrity, & industry insider insight. Not only should you continue to produce videos with said ‘insider info’ but you should make it constitutive to future content. IMHO.
Thank you for the information
I just bought a tag Hauer Formula One watch from a grey dealer I got a great price part of me was thinking is it real or fake but now listening to your video puts me at ease that I just got a great price! Thank you
well said federico and stop saying its confusing,it is not after you explained it.......that was very informative and we are waiting for new videos about the watches industry.thank you
You keep saying its confusing, its not.
Exactly what i was thinking throughout the entire video 😂 "its tricky"!
He's probably thinkin of all the stuff in his head that he's not sayin when he says that.
confusing to..... him
For such a big head, he sure must have a small brain
I agree, but he explains it well for us new watch enthusiasts.
Great vid, as a watch enthusiast, business major, and retail employee, this hits me on all levels. Please make more vids on AD's and the industry in general.
thanks for the industry insight, not far from other mass market retail products
I'd really like more from the inside. This was really informative!
Thank you for clearing that up. I've always wondered how that was possible - selling at huge discounts. One question if I may. On Chrorno 24, what is the difference between new and unworn watches?
Wow! I just received a Luminox watch that I verified was authentic, but I was confused as to how I was able to buy it at such a discount from an online retailer. This video was outstanding, explaining the various ways that the gray market can sell authentic watches at discounts. Thank you for spelling this out in simple, easy to understand terms.
It wasn't confusing at all Frederico...I think other retail businesses sometimes suffer the same problems, there's always wheeling & dealing going on...thou your little packages can be quite pricey...you did a great job of explaining...
Fed, with high quality brands like Rolex, is there a downside buying from the grey market when the watch is unlikely to fail in the first two years? Worst case scenario, you can pay for a service so you'd just factor in the service cost when considering a grey market watch.
thefreshestprince89 I’d just pay the extra couple hundred for the ad just in case
LiquidSm0ke that's what I tend to do when the price difference is $1k or lower. The other challenge is then availability of the right models at the AD. Down here in Aus, even getting a SS/WG DJ with a blue dial isn't that easy.
Ad are cheaper for Rolex
thefreshestprince89 wow
Good informative video , I just purchased a Omega Seamaster from my local AD at 34% off retail the watch was $8000 new and it came with Omega 5 years warranty as well the AD was no longer being Omega dealer and was very aggressive with prices , but I always wonder how come the Graymarket never offers warranty through the original manufacture but they offer their own warranty which I’m not a big fan off ?
This is a very good explanation and not confusing at all unless one misses half their brain. Thank you!
This is the kind of videos that are really worth watching. Great vid Federico.
Very informative, Federico. Thank you. No, it wasn't confusing. Not because the subject matter isn't confusing, but because you explained it well.
37% for an AD, the manufacturer is making far more mark-up than that. I remember taking a case of Cartier to a magazine for a shoot... the insurance documents were fascinating. Ticket price vs what they were insured for were eye-opening, and they weren't under-insured.
I found it very useful and just subscribed. It really wasn’t hard to follow. I think you are underestimating the intelligence of your viewers. Thank you
Very well explained. I imagine if you clicked on this video you had a few notions on how it was done so all we needed was a clarification not a back to basics instructional. Great job!
Great video. The watch business sounds absolutely brutal to me!😱
You keep saying it was a confusing video but honestly the way you explained it was very easy to follow. More industry videos would be awesome
Very informative and something every collector should know. Thank you for sharing!
The best video on watches I have ever viewed. I have been a collector for less than 10 years But I just learned a whole bunch of great shit from you right now. Thank you.
You did a great job explaining the topic.
Fed can you make a video about the possible micro brands that may become an actual luxury watch brand ?
With Fed's views on microbrands, it might be fun.
They can, but it will take 100 years. Brands like Bremont have done a great job but are still not considered a luxury brand. It needs heritage and that can only be built with time. Unfortunately many micro brands won’t be around in 20 years or will get bought out.
@@garretthu2466 Bremont is not considered a luxury brand??? Come on, don't confuse be in the top 5 luxury brands with not be a luxury brand. And don't confuse be a luxury brand with be a brand with long heritage.
Are Seiko and Citizen luxury brands? They don't. Do they have heritage? Well, is not necessary to answer that.
MrTemplarious I think Bremont is a great brand and I own the MBII, definitely a fan! Luxury is different for all, I guess you could say all watches are a luxury right because you don’t need them. To me, Bremont is a utilitarian watch company, like Sinn. They both make tough and rugged watches and both have watched that span a wide pride range.
@@garretthu2466 So you call a 5,000$ watch an utilitarian watch? Nice I respect it, talking honestly I respect your opinion but I call that luxury watch. Especially because the market is plenty of other options, since the quarz arrived a few decades ago, that provides you the same kind of features for ten times less of that price or even less.
Great Video.. how come Jomashop has every Rolex including Sub, GMT, Daytona, Sea Dweller while the AD is waiting for months to get one...
True, but right now Joma is selling Subs above retail. That's the extra price you pay for getting one now.
I wouldn’t buy from Jomashop - too many horror stories.
@@Archer335 I've bought a few watches from them, no issues on my end.
PantsofVance,
You’re apparently one of the lucky ones. I won’t be taking any chances. There’s no point. There are plenty of online sellers.
@@Archer335 I have bought 5 watches from jomashop no problem. Some of those horror stories are written by AD's trying to keep you from a discount lol.
Really appreciate it.
More of these insider video please.
Great video Fed. I wonder how Costco gets top end watches like Rolex, AP, Cartier etc? Do they buy them directly from AD’s or even large grey market dealers?
They buy them from gray market dealers usually.
Great insight into the inner workings of the induatry
very interesting, educational above all thanks Federico
Bought a fresh new Omega AT 150m, newest model, for $3575 on Jomashop. It retails for $5500. Basically, 65% off. It won't lose much value from $3575. I feel I made a good purchase.
You got 35% off. Not 65%.
Fed, think you explained it so well and not fuzzy or confusing so really great video super informative and spot on!
I like the back story and wondered how Jomas shop discounted their prices! 👍
This was very useful and informative. Thanks.
Great video. Best part is not passing judgment on the issue, like most do! Let the people be informed and decide on their own.
Thanks I've been purchasing on the gray market for a while. Now I understand
Fed - love the business side content; would love to hear/see more!
I loved this video. It offered a great insight into how the relationships between the ADs and manufacturers work. More please!
Very interesting Fed, a bit of an eye opener regards margins. Just goes to show on weaker brands haggling is the only way. Sometimes a crazy low offer is going to be tempting to ADs if they need to hit their targets, what has anyone got to lose?
More content like this please, makes a refreshing change from same old same old watch reviews elsewhere.
Very informative, thanks for posting.
thanks for the rundown. Your explanation was not at all hard to follow. Made perfect sense.
You are right on alot of points, I am in the Cosmetic industry and I buy up out of season inventory and distribute it at lower prices to resellers. Still one needs connections to the brands and suppliers to get stock.
100% makes sense. Not confusing at all. You explained it perfectly. Its business 101.
These watches are not coming off the back of a truck to fill the entire grey market.
Manufactures, ADs, Distributors are making and selling new watches.
Not hanging onto old stock that goes down in value.
the 2018 model was replaced by 2021 model. is the AD going to have the 10 2018 models in the showroom?
ADs want the latest models on display.
Grey market is where 4-10 year old models go to get sold.
Federico, I thought you did a very nice job of explaining this topic. However, one thing you may have forgot to mention is buying from an AD vs. gray market and the effect it has on the warranty. Also as a possible topic for another video can you explain how the price of a preowned watch is determined on the secondary market?
That is for you to look into with the specific manufacturer
You have done a marvellous job explaining how it all works! Thank you! ;) It actually makes sense now!
Very nice video my friend I just bought a Brietling 46mm navatimer Bo1 movement with exhibition back for $6200.00 new from watcmaxx free shipping no tax the same model at lux bond and green is $10,050.00 now I understand how they sell so cheap, thank you every one thought I was getting fakes from china.
Federico..your best video ever!! It will help us watch buyers to know how far we can push a discount when face to face with an AD. Knowing these margins and some clever observation of their body language and i bet most ADs will discount more than most people think. I bet the ADs dont like Federico talks Watches!!
Very instructive
how can i buy a watch before it hit the gray market and getting the same price the gray market initially paid for.?
You most likely need to have contracts ready with Authorized dealers or a mutual connection to get you first in line when they need things gone. It's not a business most can do, Authorized dealers most likely already have their ties.
you didn't talk about how it is that the gray market is full of hard to fine watches from dealers Daytona, royaloak, nautilus ext??
Well explained and easy to comprehend. Indeed, fascinating. Love your channel, Fed!
Fed, fab video, great insight into industry... love to see more of them in future...keep it up
The most confusing thing about the grey market is online stores like jomashop changing their "retail price" to constantly change their "discounted" prices even though the prices are the same.
Great topic. I didn’t find it convoluted.
It’s basically about money.
I’d love to know more insider stuff like this -
like which grey market dealers to trust.
Thanks for posting!
Please discuss affordable watches too. I would like your opinion on Fortis like Fortis flieger and also German brands..affordable ones that is.
Brilliant info Fed. Great video and it is apreciated so thank you. Not that confusing after all. What is confusing is how do you leave a Rolex, panerai, Omega, etc at home and wear a Seiko for the day.
I had a turtle and it wasn't getting any time up against my Oris watches so I was forced to get rid of it. Couldn't give this thing away in the end and sold it for half price.
Some brands also do not own their own distribution in certain geographic markets. Distributors who aren't wholly owned subsidiaries often throw the rule book out the window and simply dump watches wherever they please, often back to Europe or the US. This was a huge problem in Asia, but more so South America in recent years.
This is a true learning channel for people such as myself getting more insight into watch 🌎.
Great explanation thanks Federico.
Great information about were the Gray Market dealer get their watches. Nice to know that the profit marin of the AD is between 37 to 50%.
Over the past 6 years I've traded-in/purchased four different Rolex watches with Jomashop and never had a problem.
your comments are like a breath of fresh air
Very insightful. Thanks so much!
Awesome and informative video
Federico, this is a great video! Keep up the good job bro!
This is really terrific work Fed! Thanks for the insiders’ take on all of this.
Great video . Informative.
Awesome video, very educational!…Cheers!
Nice. I had bought a nice watch from Jomashop and thought afterward if I got ripped off. You just educated me..nice content.
Nice analysis!
Nice info, do you know anything about luxe ware (HK) limited?
Super Duper Content!!🎉 And I followed you just fine 🌟
Quality content, Frederico That was one of the useful videos I recently saw on yt. Please keep up the great work!
great explanation, glad it comes from someone who worked in the watch industry and a lot of what you are saying makes financial sense and is similar to what clothing companies do
Pls explain why the grey market is full of new Rolex Daytona’s, skydwellers, GMT Batman/Pepsi/submariners and Patek aquanauts and nautilus? Is that because they can’t sell that stock?? Is it really from people that bought them at the AD’s? 🤔
Yes they bought them from ADS because they bough a TON of other crap ADs wanted to unload.
It seems that the grey market is a natural correction of the fact that a) the brands want to keep tight control of their distribution channels, b) they overestimate how many watches they can sell via that distribution chain, c) they pass the burden of these decisions on ADs. For someone who buys a watch that's serviceable by a 3rd party and who simply wants to wear the watch without contemplating resale going grey might be a good option.
I'm looking at buying a Tudor Black Bay 36 from Jomashop for 500.00 ish off msrp. However, they're not in stock. If grey market is buying overages, why is there a 4-8 week wait time? Fantastic video by the way.
Excellent video, Federico! More like this please.
love this! please do more of these videos!
Federico thank you. The brands and the business director live on quotas. Either you reach the forecast or you look for a new job. Anyhow the grey market lives on opportunities and customers. At the end of the day people buys from people. Give a good service and conquer your custoners and market. I took a picture at multi brand dealer in Hawaii put it on a Facebook group, and got lots of negative comments about their customer service. Aloha!!
I found it a good video Fed. You have this experience, that is why you have so many subscribers. I would like to see more industry insider info.
Very informational video thank you it definitely explains a lot about the gray market area which is confusing and you did break it down very good keep up the good work my man. Another Avid watch collector
Thumbs up for another great video Federico, thanks for the insight! More insider vids on the industry would definitely be appreciated.
its better to clear out inventory than destroy thebproduct like cartier
Cartier no longer destroy it, they recycle.
Best explanation ever. Thank you so much federico
Excellent video, great insight on the industry and glad you touched on the domino effect of brands leaving dealers. Hope for more of these industry video's!
Grey market products usually do not come with a valid guarantee. The guarantee costs money. If this isn't a big deal then what the heck eh? Usually the aftermarket warranties are BS.
This also applies to how some retail stores can sell items on discount on any item, not just watches
Always wondered about that, makes sense now, thanks!