Becoming a problem? It has been a problem for years IMO. Stock tier 6s and regular tier 6s in general should NEVER have to play against a bz 176 or grom or skoda t56. its downright stupid. Tho I do agree the game becomes really dull when its same tier games. Its kind of a tricky spot. But I wonder if +- 1 MM would work.
Going from +-2 to 1 would basically just make it so you have smaller advantage when you are top tier, and smaller disadvantage at bottom tier. It would make matches feel a lot more consistent and i could finally play my O-I without getting eaten alive by tier 8 heavies.
Yeah It doesnt happen that much to me in my server/region And I dont play tier 6 that much anymore. But I cant fathom the thought that my t-34-85 can meet a BZ-176 or grom
i would argue that when they make broken preimum tank like the BZ and ELC, just make them t8 and above. like a reverse E25... it cant meet T9. so make it the same but in reverse.
If you looked further than the thumbnail, you'll see that QB is not against +/- 2 matchmaking - something he points out nearly every live stream, but its the sheer number of OP tier 8 premium tanks that are ruining the game. And the server stats show why tier 8 premiums are played so much......on EU server the last 30 days, all 60 tanks at tier 8 that have a win rate over 50% are premium. (The only non-premium tanks in the top 83 by win rate are artillery)
@@clivedinosaur8407 Sir, I did watch the video. Yes he is not against +2, but I said he ACKNOWLEDGED that there was a problem. If you looked past the word in the dictionary, you would know what I meant.
Or even more fitting, late 2018 when he made the trio of videos talking about the future of World of Tanks and what changes should implemented, along with the fact that in those videos, he predicted the game would go on for another 3 to 5 years Yet here we are 5 years later
Nowadays it should only be +1 since we already have so many tier 8.5 prems. A tier 7 going against something like the Grom is already such a fking BS. Making something like the Cromwell going against Grom or the BZ is a warcrime.
And to add salt to the injury, Cromwell is one of the best tanks of tier 6... That makes it even more stupid. Because of the inbalance of tier 8 and crazy ammount of players playing that tier (WG can't seem to grasp the problem of stupid numbers of T8 prems compared to other tiers, especialy lower ones) and balancing them mainly against T8+, thus making them effectively a tier 8.5 tanks), tier 6 & 7 is basicaly unplayable nowdays (and those tiers used to be/still should be bread and butter of WoT => the tiers where newbies started dipping their toes into higher tier play). At this point, they should gradually buff all the tanks between tier 5 to 7 to bring the balance between tiers kind of back, and softly overlap the gap + make some incentives to play those tiers (I have my ideas, but that would be for a half a book long read), since they are still unwilling to nerf premiums, whitch is quite understandable at this point... Too many of them to not create massive exodus, they should've seen this problem much sooner...
+2 is great when you are on top, or those SUPER rare moments when you can have a hero moment as a bottom tier tank, but overall it sucks, especially as a bottom tier heavy (no armour, cant pen, cant spot, no camo, like what do you do?). +/- 1 MM would be a great alternative also, QB, why no 2k/4k youtube videos?
-1/+1 MM is something that players and CC's suggested for years, I'm honestly amazed WG didn't do anything about it. The powercreep has made some tanks incredibly powerful as top tiers and there is no other way around that than changing MM. Before the HP buff for low tiers I think that tier III and IV was the most miserable when uptiered, you couldn't really do anything substantial in those battles. Now tier VI is the most problematic in uptiers just like in the video.
They should cancel upgrading tanks alltogether, it is not fair to drive a T6 that runs a T5 or 4 gun against T8s. You cant even shoot it out with gold. Tank should just come as it would be played and be able to switch guns if its a tank that offers options
To reduce T8 players, you could also simply increase the credit income in general. I play my T8 premiums almost exclusively to farm credits. I play other tanks for fun
@@InspirationalCake because wg made it recently to earn less credits even with premium account and boosters, yiu dont make as much as before and when i told QB in stream he said is not true but it is, wg made it so credits that u make nowadays are farr less then before
My issue with +2MM is that EVERY game in my T28 Proto I am low tier and struggle every game. I feel lucky to get an all Tier VIII game, but even then I am still low tier.
Yeah that’s a prem tank problem They flood t8 so normal tanks get shoved into higher tiers in the mm All changing the mm does for this problem is put you against more prem t8s Like the BZ, Skods, and anything Russian WG sold for cash in their auctions
Fact- +2 has always been a problem unless you’re on top or you’re a really good player. If you’re average Joe you’re usually on bottom without the skills to overcome.
No joke, i play tier 10 and 80% of the games are all 10s. I play tier 8 and 60% of the time im bottom tier in a tier 10 game. I kept stats for myself over a period of time and got these numbers
It's actually insane right? Personally I do play tier 8 more often just for credit grinding, so I guess statistically it's more plausible. But still, it's ridiculous how often you get against tier 10s in tier 8.
This happens to me too. Being top tier in a tier 8 is a shock to the system lol. It’s a pleasant surprise to get that, or even a few games with all tier 8’s. +-1 mm would definitely help a lot of folk. Problem is, I think it’s more than that. Like all these op tanks that come out, that only folk willing to spend a lot, can get. Tanks like the Grom and BZ against tier 6 and most tier 7’s is just stupid. At the same time, it’s how people play the game. Just cause you are in a tier 6 heavy tank, doesn’t mean you can go head on against a tier 8 heavy (especially these premium tanks). Another problem is the way the game is set up. A lot of tanks need to use gold to compete in these +-2 mm games, and not everyone can afford to do that, it’s set up to force the gold spamming (prob why top tier games are few and far between). I don’t think WG will change their mm as +-2 forces folk to spam the gold (more cash if they need to get more credits to get that ammo). I have premium but seems when you use that gold and get an ok game, you still lose credits. So +-2 mm, new premium tanks, having to spam gold with some players unable to afford to do that, constant bottom tier matches, players who think all tanks are equal and play as though they are. All results in bad games. +-1 mm would help, but not sure if they will change it, as they want players to use gold - what best way to do that but to put them in a +-2 game as bottom tier. The reason isn’t just +-2 mm as I’ve been in games where I am bottom tier but have double the damage of the top tier players.
The most painful thing about +2 is being top tier in a stock tank. If u get matched up against a player with a better tank then u just can't carry the game for your team like you're expected to...
All vehicles that rely on armor to be effective (usually heavies but not always) should have pref mm because these tanks suffer most as bottom tier when the armor is useless and they dont have mobility to fall back on. Vehicles that rely on mobility are ok with +/-2 because they can flank, repostion and otherwise use that mobility still. In any case I think whenever a vehicle is bottom tier, at the end of the battle ammo resupply should be free, including gold ammo, because as a bottom tier you usually must fire a lot of gold if you want to get any damage done.
omg, your reasoning for +2mm... you play 100 games a day, regular people do 5-10, and we dont get burned out. and you are 6-7 times bottom, 2-3 times same, and max 1 time top out of 10 games. so its just pure frustration.
Yeah this has made me wonder so long, it's basically always like this, every day. If I play tier 8, it's a tier 10 game, if I play tier 9, it's only 9 and 10, if I play tier 10, it's only tier 10... But to even things out, there must be someone who are 6-7 times top, 2-3 times even tier and 1 time bottom, right? Who are they? The ones who use most money in the WG shop?
Exactly! I stopped playing 2 months ago because of this very reason. I have an hour or two to play after work and it just isn't enjoyable to be bottom tier most of my session. I ended up ignoring 99 percent of my tanks and went to ones with pref MM.
The +2 to -2 matchmaking only exists to make bad players get a chance at dealing 500 dmg instead of 0 and make the good players not stomp every match basically the worst thing the game has
They could modify the matchmaker to ensure that some tanks can't meet lower tiers. They could make it so tier 8.5 tanks like the Skoda T56 can only meet -1/+2. While some tanks like the BZ-176 can only meet +0/+2. Tanks like the 112 or M6A2E1 could have -2/+1 matchmaking.
@@martin913913 I agree, the tanks with preferential matchmaking are outdated compared to their newer same-tier counterparts. The problem is that you can't just buff tier 8 tanks, because all you're doing is widening the gap between tier 7 and tier 8. The only real solution is to nerf the overpowered tier 8.5 tanks, but Wargaming is afraid of lawsuits if they do that.
I have a 112 premium that I purchased years ago because it never see's tier 10 but it has been power creeped and has only 190 mm pen it would struggle against tier 6 now days.
@@albazar 190 mm pen is okay on a relatively fast firing and accurate medium tank like the T-44 or Type 59. The 112 for example has 0.42 dispersion, a 12 second reload and only a mediocre 1900 DPM. It's the combination of multiple bad statistics that ends up really killing the tank.
Becoming a problem? That's a joke, right? It was "becoming" a problem 5 years ago. Its the main reason why half the player base or more deserted the game years ago.
More than 5 years ago, i stopped playing like 7 years ago for this very reason, got almost unicum stats and got sick of this crap as new OP tanks just kept making this problem worse and worse. Idk how he just now is speaking about this mind blowing to me.
@@Mystx24 Well, its not that mind-blowing if you think about it. While I like his content in general, lets be honest...he gets paid by wargaming. So he has an incentive to downplay the games shortcomings. He doesn't ALWAYS do that, but the tendency and incentive is there.
7:25 the only "variety" lost will be that you don't have to struggle against good +2 players, while your +2 players are licking themselves, and if unicums, the cream on top of the playerbase, are the only people who lose something of value then that is a sacrifice absolutely worth making
I haven't been playing WoT for a long time, but I dread to think if there are more tanks like the infamous BZ-176 that just obliterates any unfortunate ones in T6 tanks that are matched against them... +/- 2 MM has been loudly voiced by players for a LONG time as a big problem.
Recently spent evening, 6 hours , playing scorpion td at tier 7. Played 43 matches in all. The whole evening, i never saw a tier 5 or 6 tank. 4 matches was all tier 7. 23 matches at tier 8 and 16 at tier 9. its even worse when these matches are quick as you don't have the firepower to influence or halt a char future 4 charging at you. And when you add to this the fact you seem to end up in really "questionable" teams where so called good players play like bots, you feel helpless and just want to uninstall the game. You end the evening with a less than 30% win rate , where you were only top tier 9.31% of the matches.
+2 was a problem years ago. Way before grom or bz-176 or skoda t56 or obj 703. It was a problem when the british tanks were added in the game, because i remember cursing meeting a is3 in the cromwells and comets, when nobody was shooting gold. Yea there is literaly nothing you can do to is 3 while its facing you if you sit in a tier 6 or 7 medium with no gold. As powerful as bz-176 is it is nothing but a free xp and credits for type 5 heavy, the worst tier 10 heavy. The reason why tier 9 is so comfortable is because you only have +1 and you still get to farm all the -2 games.
Ive been saying this for 8 years. +2/-2 is a problem. It was needed during during the early days of Closed Beta due to the small numbers playing, but once the game was released, it should have all been same tier matchmaking. Facing tanks that you cannot pen is not good game play. That's too late now. Now, the only way to fix MM due to decreased numbers playing is +1/-1.
+2MM has been a problem for YEARS. WG keeps it so that the MM can give bad players a better chance to win when facing tanks 1 or 2 tiers lower. Facing tanks 2 tiers higher also promotes 2 key spam, which WG likes to eat up credits. I only play tier 9 and 10 and these are just some of the reasons why.
as someone who does not use premium ammo, I can say that +2mm at tier 8 does not bother me that much as +2mm on tier 6, as jump in stats between tier 6 and 8 is much bigger then 8 to 10... for example penetration: tier 6 140mm, tier 8 225mm, thats increase about 60%... tier 8 225mm to 270, increase about 20%... etc...
THANK YOU QB for coming back to a regular, casual players view of +/- 2 match making. I have rage quit several times after playing a T6 or T8 and being bottom tier, getting one or two shotted game after game. The Alpha Creep in the upper tiers and, as you mentioned the Pen Creep, has aggravated this to a extreme degree. Playing an E25 in a tier 9 game is a waste of time, all you can do is scout and try to not be spotted. Not to mention T6/7 tanks have a much lower Alpha, there are T8 tanks I would have to pen 5 to 9 times to kill them, while they need just two shots on me. Hard to trade effectively at that rate....
You are absolutely right. Playing tier 6 and tier 7 reminds me of the very beginning of WoT when I played M3Lee against KV2 or PzIV against KV5. That's why today we have players who skip grinding all the tanks and play high ranks with little knowledge and experience, thus ruining the game.
adding tier11 is probably the worst idea tbh as it just adds more to the original problem, 1mm is the best way to handle the situation and im surprised it hasnt been implemented already, it fixes loads of balancing issues and makes the game a lot more enjoyable on a game to game basis, especially for casual players who just want to hop on and shoot some shells, not having to sweat in their T34-85 against a Bz 176 or a grom
If they added t11 they should make it play only against other t11 or t10. Ye its painfull to play against bz-176 on t6 but if you play something else than heavy you can avoid them most of the time
i don't think ±2 should be completely removed. however it should me minimized as in if the matchmaker cannot create a game in 3 minutes (aka you're sitting and waiting 3min at the loading screen) then it makes a ±2 game. then I'd be fine with it. its the issue that its so common and you're against really strong tanks like Grom, BZ-176, Skoda T56, Bourrasque, Prog, Vipera and many more where you either get one shot or clipped out quickly, have absolutely no chance of fighting back (BZ-176 or Vipera or Defender) so you're forced to load gold but you still get annihilated in mere moments
+2 has always been ass. the bottom tiers rarely have a chance to do anything positive unless theyre played by unicums. if decent to amazing players populate the key top tier tanks on one team the other team nearly always gets steamrolled. +1 is fine, it gives variety while still allowing for everybody on each team to have a decent chance. this will never happen though, the difference in armor in +2 accounts for the majority of 2 key spam in the game, which of course benefits WGs bottom line. im a decent player, not a pro. i play tanks with the highest standard pen so i dont have to "pay" to affect a match, cuz f that mechanic. me sitting in a 270 ish pen TD as a top tier 9 against 7s, is friggen stupid and not fun for those 7s.
Kind of a text dump, but I don’t really care: This the the main reason I no longer play console or the blitz version (never stuck with the PC version) and moved on to War Thunder. Tier 6-10 become the hole where all premium vehicles are, meaning that anybody that plays a premium end up in those tiers. When you make a tier 8 that can fight tier 10’s and you also make it so that the tier 8 can put up a fight against a tier 10, then it will just annihilate tier 6’s, much like the Grom you played in this video. This game holds a special place in my heart for what it once was, and while there have been a lot of improvements over time, there have been just as many terrible updates and implementations. I think there’s just way too many stats in World of Tanks that are used to balance vehicles. As well as War Gaming’s “never nerf a premium” policy. While it’s grounded in good intentions, it just does not hold up anymore. In War Thunder, most vehicles never have any features removed or added, buffed or nerfed after their introduction. For a vehicle to be changed there has to be a (real) document proving the changes requested exist in real life - hence the occasional classified document leaks that War Thunder produces as a byproduct of this. What War Thunder does do, however, is change the so called “Battle Rating”, equivalent to tiers in World of Tanks, whenever and however they want. That way, a ridiculously strong vehicle at, say 9.0, can be moved to 10.0. It would be nice if World of Tanks had something similar where tanks, depending on their performance, could be moved up or down in tiers. Not saying War Thunder is perfect, because it is not, but it would be nice if these two “competitors” would actually acknowledge some of the other’s good implementations and implement them themselves.
The problem with +2 comes when you are constantly bottom tier and that gets old quickly. If WG added something where you can be bottom tier 2 games then the next 2 you are either top or even tier.
driving in heavies 2 tiers below the rest of the team is such fun, slow arsed tanks with armour and pen which is useless against tanks 2 tiers above...such fun..oh and the gold spam from 2 tier higher tanks is even MORE fun.... always tier 10 players that say that +/-2 MM is good for the game...
Its unfair how often you are bottom tier in your lower tier tanks, basically cannon fodder, fix it by ensuring that 30% of battles are same tier and the other 30% top tier and most players would enjoy the game so much more.
My biggest problem with the game is the small size of the maps. With small maps. We need maps Where all types of tanks can shine. No matter if you are a paper armor tanks or a assault tanks with no spotting range but heavy armor.
Tanks used to be a whole lot slower and viewranges used to be a lot less as well. That is what the maps are designed for. The soviet t54 used to be to fast for the server to render lol. Now it isn't concidered fast at all anymore.
The only way to justify keeping +2 matchmaking is to lessen the power difference between tiers. They did this a little when they buffed lower tier tanks, but I wonder if WG has the fortitude to do this for higher tiers. Personally, I believe tier 6 tanks should never meet tier 8 tanks, the power difference is astronomical. WG should get rid of +2 matchmaking for all tiers or more evenly match the power of the tiers.
Bring back the old MM, from pre-2017. I did a stat study on this. Players were top tier much more and the +2/-2MM wasn't as brutal. The current MM forces more lower tier battles, and frustration. The article was on the old WoTLabs website, which appears to be gone now. 😕
MM should be based on modules installed. That way WG can keep current prem tanks more balanced while bringing back old preiums with preferential mm. The best of both worlds. For instance: Make BZ to be placed very often vs tier 9 or 10 (no nerf to the tank). But, if you install weaker turret and weaker gun, you can have for example mm+1. Or take Super Pershing for example. Make it possible to mount way better gun and you have normal mm. B2 that has +0 mm ? Same thing. Mount better gun or turret and you have +1 etc. WG can still balance this game without nerfing premiums. And of course - this would affect tech tree tanks as well. It would be hard & much work to do as each tank would have to be looked at individually, but it is possible.
@@derrickstorm6976 I know... I just think that it is a shame that WG did not went with that route when they are monetizing the game. Those older tanks with preferential mm were much less destructive for the game balance cuz for the most part they are weaker than tech tree ones. All you are really paying here is better match-up. So I do think that if players can "chose" to install worse gun or engine or turret in exchange for +0 or +1 mm it would be overall better for the game. You could "play safe" and play a tank with worse stats or pick top modules , but risking being bottom tier.
+2 has always been awful (especially tier 3 vs tier 5 back then when a tank can’t even physically damage another), but power creep is so bad, even in a tier 8 with tier 6 game, if I’m driving a patriot and the enemy team has a BZ176, then it gets harder and harder to treat that tank as a challenge/raid boss and it gets easier and easier to just give up Also 4:23 before the HE nerf that kv2 had a proper chance, it was the tank version of an equalizer that can even go against a high tier and do damage. Look at it now 11:17 frontline helps pushing tier 8 out of the MM, although you’re still getting depressed from having to fight EBRs, Progettos, and BZs
I dont play this game for around 10 years but i keep an eye from time to time thanks to QB and see whats new. The only reason i dont play is matchmaking. I simply refuse to play +2. Until equal or +1 mm comes into the game im ready to give my money.
Yeah being the lower end in the match maker sucks on +2games . But i find it even worst that the teams are most of the times uneven in skills. Either u crush the enemys or u get overrun.
+2MM is a crime for the average player. As a super unique you probably look at this differently, but with a tech.tree tier tank 6 against a Grom all fate is lost to you in advance. Long live variety!
the game needs a very good and fair HP rebalance. the amount off HP from tier 6 to tier 8 is very big and in my opinion the amount off HP should be no more than 100 or 150 ph. increase per tier
The best tiem for premiums will always be when they were better than stock tanks, but worse than upraded ones... was a great template but they f***ed it up
It would be great if the matchmaker could take into account player stats/rating and make it so that less skillful players would more likely get into same tier matches, average players would be more likely to get +1 tier matches and good players would more likely get into +2 tier matches. This way those who just like to play casually would be met with other casual players and those sweaty ones would more likely meet other sweaty players. Although this would only solve tier 8 and below battles and maybe tier 9 battles...
Console WoT is even worse. Now there’s some tier IX tanks that are so broken they’re dominating tier X. Even if the tier VIII is only +1 they have zero chance
Skill based and equal tanks would help new players earn new skills right NOW most games are just blowouts. That only benefits people with deep pockets and WG.
There's a reason why in War Thunder you only got uptiered to at most only 1.0 BR. Imagine you play Tiger I at 6.0 and have to fight an M48 Patton at 8.0☠ 2+ MM has always been a problem in WoT because of the HP mechanic of WoT, that's why i quit WoT after playing it for more than 6 years and move to War Thunder
Don't agree, plus two mm makes gold rounds a necessity. It also makes games go very quick because of unequal tanks facing each other. I guess both things benefit wg though. Not the players.
+2 MM is a problem for the reasons QB says.. too many premium tier 8 tanks make people play only that tier, ruins the experience with tier 6 / 7 tanks. If they want to balance easy and make money doing it, WG can start to sell new tier 6 tanks with good stats. Or give at tanks like Grom different MM (like for Pz. B2 for example, but instead MM equal tier maximum, it can be +0 / +2 for Grom)
The problem is also the unfair mm, one team full of good players even with purple wtr against low and mid players. Quess who wins? Its unfair at the least. 😊
Without readjusting the whole game so there is much less differentiation between tiers, 3 tiers in one game is untenable. It is okay for some tanks especially lights. However, in the meantime, WOT could make it much better for the bottom tiers by providing much bigger rewards for having been shafted, so I can afford all the premium ammo I have to expend. Also, in the meantime, I will continue to desert in 1/2 the games I am bottom of three tiers (the ones where I am clearly just cheap bait). Do the same and WOT might wake up and listen.
They need to flip the template - We need less bottom tier tanks - You would only get those games less than 20% of your games. Or go 5-5-5 - Top tier (7)-5-3 would get to where your only bottom tier about 20-15% of your games maybe less - Also it would release the Stress on top tier players to carry games Or treat the lower Tiers as a difficulty check , Tier 1-6 +1 -1 Tier 7 is minus 1 and never sees tier 8 or 9 , tier 8 is big boy play +2 MM
Reducing MM by -1 (so +1 by default) without individually looking at each tank would be kinda catastrophical. I mean, you have tanks like TOG II with mm+1. Is TOG a good tank ? No. The only reason it is playable is because of the MM. If all of the tier 6 tanks would also have mm+1 then TOG is pretty much gone. Why play it if you can play M6 or T-34 85M ? Something like this already happened in WOT at low tiers. Tanks like B2 or Valentine II went from very strong to mediocre at best as all of the low tiers got mm +1. Or, some tanks like PZ S35 had mm+2 (very often vs tier 5) & got mm+1 and are now ungodly OP.
For me, I think WoT changed when everything got faster and more accurate. (I'll preface this with I have been playing since the Beta >10 years ago) There was a time when class (light, med, heavy) meant something and you could count the amount of vehicles that could hit a reasonably sized cupola at range (4/10 times in a row) on one hand. The only thing lights could pen from the front were other lights and the lightest of meds at close range, but, heavies couldn't track you at close range/keep up with you unless they used their brains and positioned. There was a time when WoT was slower and planning on a team lv meant more (if you were an IS-2, you were meant to be the wall of one side of the map. You were very slow, slow to reload, and couldn't hit shit unless they were less than 200m away, but if you did they knew it. And you were a wall, even to most tier 7s and some tier 8s. It took teamwork to pull out an entrenched heavy, but the tradeoff was that they were inflexible.). I could go on for ages but I think you get the idea.
I think the other big change was the HE mechanic change. Sure your KV-2 reloaded slower than a snails pace but it didn't matter if you were fighting tier 8s or tier 5s, you had the 152mm gun and you slapped stuff with HE. However they've now reworked the HE mechanic and thus what was a tank that even tier 8s didn't really want to roll infront of (since even if the HE didn't pen it would still slap you for 400 damage and knock out some modules) became something they could just ignore as much as any other tier 6. This was the tradeoff for taking the derp guns on tanks, you were always going to do damage but you were not likely to pen. Now Derp guns are basicaly pointless.
Faster, more alpha, a lot more autoloaders, more pen, more viewrange, much better equipment. All on maps that where designed for how tanks used to be in 2015.
@@rogerk6180 I think the biggest hit to light tanks (and the reason they almost always have to be 50/50 damage dealers) is that most meds and a lot of other tanks can easily max out view range. In maps as "small" as these, most light tanks have very small avenues of movement and the increased accuracy means they are almost always punished heavily for any mistakes.
@@m.d.598 yeah. There are more things that add to this. The fact that repair kits and medkits are now renewable. When was the last time you saw anyone with a damaged engine or gun? Or people having to play more cautious because they already burned their repair kit. 2 loadouts to choose from at every battle makes balanced loadouts a thing of the past because everyone has a perfect maximised loadout now for every battle. Even faster on big maps, even mkre stealthy on bushy maps etc. All this stuff seems like a positive development as a player, but in reality it isn't. It is just even more powercreep and makes strong tanks even stronger. And it heavilly favors better or more dedicated over casual players. Making quality of life for casual players increasingly misserable..
Vast majority of premium tanks are T8. It stands to reason there will be many more players selecting T8. Maybe a better option would be for WG to add more T8 premiums like the Super Pershing that has +1 MM. Also, when you get T6 as a T8 there will only be 3 T8 on each team. Sadly MM has no clue how good players so a good T8 played by a good player will decimate the other team more times than not.
I think limiting the tanks capabilities and balancing around +1 -1 MM and using this on these premiums will definitely help and also aid some more gameplay in tiers 9 and 7
It really hasn't been that much of a problem over the last few years. The problem is coming from the fact that they keep adding new tanks with different stats some overpowered some not. Meanwhile, the mid-tier is like tier 6 and tier 7. Barely have gotten that many changes at all to keep up with all of the tier 8s and new tier 9 premiums being added
for experienced player +3mm is actually good fun for LTs back before 9.18 still remember in my M5A1 dealing with tier7 tank and still be somewhat viable
the only issue i have with +2mm is the fact that if im lucky 8/10 matches im bottom tier !!! and when im not on bottom its an even tier match ...NEVER top tier
I would be careful what you wish for. When they wanted more tier 7s in the Blitz matchmaker they just released a bunch of wildly overpowered premiums lol
Tier 7 has some really nice tanks. But sadly, they don't make as much money as Tier 8s, so people just save up to buy a Tier 8 Premium and move on. I used to have a lot of Tier 7s for "crew trainers", but now with Crew Skills 2.0, they're rather pointless. Maybe just buff the Tier 7 income ? Give all Premium Tanks the ability to make x amount of bonds per week, so that you have some reason to play them ? Like 10 bonds for a Tier 5 Premium, 15/20 for Tier 6, 30/50 for Tier 7, a 100 for a Tier 8 ? Just shooting the breeze here. But yeah, unless I'm grinding a new line, I don't dip below Tier 8 nowadays.
I have been playing since the beginning. i have watched the maps change over the years. i have noticed that the map changes have forced everyone into head to head battles . fun for some and not so fun for others.I believe these head to head battles are the cause of these 3 minute games. we have no choice but to run towards the opposing team head on . which results into a 3 or 4 min game . Which makes some players to spend gold to survive in the game! they put an overpowered tank into the game for a few months . Which everyone has to spend gold to get . Then nerf the tank down the road. then do it again over and over with new tanks coming on board. sounds like a good money maker to me.
@@kodiakanubis16 Chrystler K was the first truly OP tank because lower tiers couldn't kill it and it dominated top tier. Skorpion G just has a good gun on a relatively mobile platform. They're not the same.
Personally, this on its own wouldn't be a huge problem, but the sheer number of blatantly OP tier 8 tanks in the game make tier 6 nearly unplayable. What exactly is a Churchill 7 supposed to do against something like a Grom or a BZ-176? It can't flank them, can't bounce them, can't pen them, can't out-trade them, and is slower into position than them. So what exactly is the point when your only selling point (your DPM) is obliterated by something like a Grom that you can do nothing about?
In the past, I think +2MM was less problematic when you consider the scaling on the game in the past when improvement was roughly linear through the tiers. However, over time, Tier VIII, IX, and X have essentially broken away from the rest of the tiers. At least in my own experience, the Patriot used to be a particularly powerful Tier VIII, but now it is pretty mediocre in comparison to many other recent Tier VIII releases since then. By contrast, a Cromwell has been almost entirely unchanged since that time. While Tier VIII, IX, and X have seen lots of new releases and steady powercreep, the lower tiers have just not kept up. Maybe you buff all the lower tier tanks again or introduce +1/-1MM for low tiers?
The Patriot was part of the first wave of "WTF Wargaming" power creep, along with the Skorpion and Defender. They were so obviously better than their tech tree counterparts and other premiums, people raised hell when they first appeared.
With tier 10 and 9 excluded; it doesn't really seem to matter what tier I play - I'm usually 2 tiers down. It's rare that I"m ever top tier in a two tier spread. I get the occasional all tier 8 game, but for the most part; I'm bottom tier no matter what I play.
WG don’t give a damn about rough parity amongst same tier tanks. It just wants to make money. If it cared at all, there’s a whole back catalog of premium tanks to buff. Can’t recall when I last played my FV4202. That’s basically a tier 7 these days
Tier 7 has been the Red Headed Stepchild of the MM, and the Game as a Whole, for a While... WG makes Tier 8 Premium's to Sell the Game, and Players are in their 10's because WG Feeds them Blueprints to GET Tier 10's... Most of them shouldn't BE in a Tier 10 when they are because the Grind is almost Completely Removed anymore, so they don't get to Learn the Game... If you Play Long Enough, WG'll Unlock most Tanks FOR You, I have all Lines Unlocked to Tier 8 at least without ever starting the Lines... I've been saying for a Long While now that +/-2 MM is Out of Date because if the Tanks they've Added... Defender is just another Russian Heavy, but when it came Out, it was a Monster until people figured it out... But it was a Start of Not so Good Things to Come... And Now, New Players START with Three Tier 3 Tanks, No Tier 1's, and everything they Need to put them In Over their Heads from the Outset.... And when you hit Tier 6, you have Grom and BZ's to deal with in an M4 or a Cromwell.... Not alot of Forward Thinking went into some of the Decisions by WG where the Game and it's Future went, just their Wallets I'm beginning to Think...
Becoming a problem? It has been a problem for years IMO. Stock tier 6s and regular tier 6s in general should NEVER have to play against a bz 176 or grom or skoda t56. its downright stupid. Tho I do agree the game becomes really dull when its same tier games. Its kind of a tricky spot. But I wonder if +- 1 MM would work.
Going from +-2 to 1 would basically just make it so you have smaller advantage when you are top tier, and smaller disadvantage at bottom tier. It would make matches feel a lot more consistent and i could finally play my O-I without getting eaten alive by tier 8 heavies.
@@BlackoutGootraxian yeah that's what I was thinking.
+-1 would work, see tier 9 tanks. Being in a tier 9 with rest tier 10 is a fair fight and a nice challenge.
Yeah
It doesnt happen that much to me in my server/region
And I dont play tier 6 that much anymore.
But I cant fathom the thought that my t-34-85 can meet a BZ-176 or grom
i would argue that when they make broken preimum tank like the BZ and ELC, just make them t8 and above. like a reverse E25... it cant meet T9. so make it the same but in reverse.
You know it’s bad when QB finally acknowledges the +2 problem
I EXPECTED "USED CARS" COMERCIAL AKA KURT RUSSEL MOVIE
The problem is not +2 MM, the problem is WG GREED
Yup yup
If you looked further than the thumbnail, you'll see that QB is not against +/- 2 matchmaking - something he points out nearly every live stream, but its the sheer number of OP tier 8 premium tanks that are ruining the game. And the server stats show why tier 8 premiums are played so much......on EU server the last 30 days, all 60 tanks at tier 8 that have a win rate over 50% are premium. (The only non-premium tanks in the top 83 by win rate are artillery)
@@clivedinosaur8407 Sir, I did watch the video. Yes he is not against +2, but I said he ACKNOWLEDGED that there was a problem. If you looked past the word in the dictionary, you would know what I meant.
This video title is right out of 2019
Or even more fitting, late 2018 when he made the trio of videos talking about the future of World of Tanks and what changes should implemented, along with the fact that in those videos, he predicted the game would go on for another 3 to 5 years
Yet here we are 5 years later
WG was playing around with "-1+1" back in 2016 due to community dissatisfaction with the -2+2.
Time to unfavorite all Quicky's videos where he talks about how great +2/-2 is great.
This is same problem with world of tank consoles and I think it unfair for new players to enjoy playing what tank they like
Literally. This has always been a problem. +2/-2 needs to go
Nowadays it should only be +1 since we already have so many tier 8.5 prems. A tier 7 going against something like the Grom is already such a fking BS. Making something like the Cromwell going against Grom or the BZ is a warcrime.
And to add salt to the injury, Cromwell is one of the best tanks of tier 6... That makes it even more stupid. Because of the inbalance of tier 8 and crazy ammount of players playing that tier (WG can't seem to grasp the problem of stupid numbers of T8 prems compared to other tiers, especialy lower ones) and balancing them mainly against T8+, thus making them effectively a tier 8.5 tanks), tier 6 & 7 is basicaly unplayable nowdays (and those tiers used to be/still should be bread and butter of WoT => the tiers where newbies started dipping their toes into higher tier play). At this point, they should gradually buff all the tanks between tier 5 to 7 to bring the balance between tiers kind of back, and softly overlap the gap + make some incentives to play those tiers (I have my ideas, but that would be for a half a book long read), since they are still unwilling to nerf premiums, whitch is quite understandable at this point... Too many of them to not create massive exodus, they should've seen this problem much sooner...
+2 is great when you are on top, or those SUPER rare moments when you can have a hero moment as a bottom tier tank, but overall it sucks, especially as a bottom tier heavy (no armour, cant pen, cant spot, no camo, like what do you do?). +/- 1 MM would be a great alternative
also, QB, why no 2k/4k youtube videos?
Here on NA the +2 is a problem even when you're on top, because the MM will give you a team of muppets, expecting you, the top tier to carry...
-1/+1 MM is something that players and CC's suggested for years, I'm honestly amazed WG didn't do anything about it. The powercreep has made some tanks incredibly powerful as top tiers and there is no other way around that than changing MM. Before the HP buff for low tiers I think that tier III and IV was the most miserable when uptiered, you couldn't really do anything substantial in those battles. Now tier VI is the most problematic in uptiers just like in the video.
@@prinzvonbismarck6821 you should try EU lol, we just have a bigger reservoir of muppets
brother can't even edit his green screen properly, 4k vids should be at the bottom of the wishlist lmao
Im 95% of games a bottom tier, thats why i dont play tier 8, no fun at all
Tier 6 and 7 has been a disaster especially for stock grind
tanks should have +-1 mm for the first 10 battles or so.
They should cancel upgrading tanks alltogether, it is not fair to drive a T6 that runs a T5 or 4 gun against T8s. You cant even shoot it out with gold.
Tank should just come as it would be played and be able to switch guns if its a tank that offers options
To reduce T8 players, you could also simply increase the credit income in general. I play my T8 premiums almost exclusively to farm credits. I play other tanks for fun
Same here and it's getting harder and harder to earn credits this way anymore.
@@InspirationalCake yeah, if I get tier X match in my T8 prem. I just yolo it, no point playing for 10 minutes and I can’t do jack shit.
@@nimay13this is why i like to play bourrasque because you can go and spot for your team. If you load gold can do decent damage the same time aswell
@@nimay13 some tier8 premiums don't care about tierXs like SkorpionG or Borask
@@InspirationalCake because wg made it recently to earn less credits even with premium account and boosters, yiu dont make as much as before and when i told QB in stream he said is not true but it is, wg made it so credits that u make nowadays are farr less then before
+2 matchmaking is also the main reason lower tiers like 5 and 6 are played so little. Tier 5 used to be the most fun back in the day.
My issue with +2MM is that EVERY game in my T28 Proto I am low tier and struggle every game. I feel lucky to get an all Tier VIII game, but even then I am still low tier.
So true, you must always play the top tanks because in +2 even they suffer
Because of the tier 8 power creep even in a same tier game a T28 Proto can feel bottom tier.
Yeah that’s a prem tank problem
They flood t8 so normal tanks get shoved into higher tiers in the mm
All changing the mm does for this problem is put you against more prem t8s
Like the BZ, Skods, and anything Russian WG sold for cash in their auctions
On tier 8 you have like a +3 mm inside the tier itself. BZ, Skoda, etc which are like 3 tiers higher than a t69.
+2mm is garbage. Ask anyone that has been in a tier 6 medium VS T8 heavies. Or a T-7 heavy VS T9 heavies. Its wrong, just wrong.
Panther vs Char Futur 4 ! LOL
Fact- +2 has always been a problem unless you’re on top or you’re a really good player. If you’re average Joe you’re usually on bottom without the skills to overcome.
No joke, i play tier 10 and 80% of the games are all 10s. I play tier 8 and 60% of the time im bottom tier in a tier 10 game. I kept stats for myself over a period of time and got these numbers
It's actually insane right? Personally I do play tier 8 more often just for credit grinding, so I guess statistically it's more plausible. But still, it's ridiculous how often you get against tier 10s in tier 8.
This happens to me too. Being top tier in a tier 8 is a shock to the system lol. It’s a pleasant surprise to get that, or even a few games with all tier 8’s. +-1 mm would definitely help a lot of folk.
Problem is, I think it’s more than that. Like all these op tanks that come out, that only folk willing to spend a lot, can get. Tanks like the Grom and BZ against tier 6 and most tier 7’s is just stupid.
At the same time, it’s how people play the game. Just cause you are in a tier 6 heavy tank, doesn’t mean you can go head on against a tier 8 heavy (especially these premium tanks). Another problem is the way the game is set up. A lot of tanks need to use gold to compete in these +-2 mm games, and not everyone can afford to do that, it’s set up to force the gold spamming (prob why top tier games are few and far between).
I don’t think WG will change their mm as +-2 forces folk to spam the gold (more cash if they need to get more credits to get that ammo). I have premium but seems when you use that gold and get an ok game, you still lose credits.
So +-2 mm, new premium tanks, having to spam gold with some players unable to afford to do that, constant bottom tier matches, players who think all tanks are equal and play as though they are. All results in bad games. +-1 mm would help, but not sure if they will change it, as they want players to use gold - what best way to do that but to put them in a +-2 game as bottom tier.
The reason isn’t just +-2 mm as I’ve been in games where I am bottom tier but have double the damage of the top tier players.
The most painful thing about +2 is being top tier in a stock tank. If u get matched up against a player with a better tank then u just can't carry the game for your team like you're expected to...
Stock AMX 65t vs BZ-176
@@mosayyeed Not even a fair fight, the stock AMX 65t will win 11/10 times
@@TheEvilscooteryeah))))))
I wish WoT will see the day when MM is +1/-1 Tier
Doesn't Blitz do that .. one of the variants, pretty sure does.
I miss derping e100s with my KV1 with the 152...T5 vs T10... It got a lot better, but it still needs to improve more.
All vehicles that rely on armor to be effective (usually heavies but not always) should have pref mm because these tanks suffer most as bottom tier when the armor is useless and they dont have mobility to fall back on. Vehicles that rely on mobility are ok with +/-2 because they can flank, repostion and otherwise use that mobility still. In any case I think whenever a vehicle is bottom tier, at the end of the battle ammo resupply should be free, including gold ammo, because as a bottom tier you usually must fire a lot of gold if you want to get any damage done.
omg, your reasoning for +2mm... you play 100 games a day, regular people do 5-10, and we dont get burned out. and you are 6-7 times bottom, 2-3 times same, and max 1 time top out of 10 games. so its just pure frustration.
Yeah this has made me wonder so long, it's basically always like this, every day. If I play tier 8, it's a tier 10 game, if I play tier 9, it's only 9 and 10, if I play tier 10, it's only tier 10...
But to even things out, there must be someone who are 6-7 times top, 2-3 times even tier and 1 time bottom, right? Who are they? The ones who use most money in the WG shop?
Exactly! I stopped playing 2 months ago because of this very reason. I have an hour or two to play after work and it just isn't enjoyable to be bottom tier most of my session. I ended up ignoring 99 percent of my tanks and went to ones with pref MM.
strange that when I play my T8 tanks I get T10 2 out of 3 very rarely get lower tier .
I stopped playing this game years ago because of this stupid MM crap. It's been a problem for along time. Hes now just talking about it wow.
has been like that for years...
For real ! Becoming looool
The +2 to -2 matchmaking only exists to make bad players get a chance at dealing 500 dmg instead of 0 and make the good players not stomp every match basically the worst thing the game has
They could modify the matchmaker to ensure that some tanks can't meet lower tiers. They could make it so tier 8.5 tanks like the Skoda T56 can only meet -1/+2. While some tanks like the BZ-176 can only meet +0/+2. Tanks like the 112 or M6A2E1 could have -2/+1 matchmaking.
M6A2E1 already has exactly that. That gun on it is suboptimal by todays standarts and that 240mm armor is not so sturdy anymore
@@martin913913 I agree, the tanks with preferential matchmaking are outdated compared to their newer same-tier counterparts.
The problem is that you can't just buff tier 8 tanks, because all you're doing is widening the gap between tier 7 and tier 8.
The only real solution is to nerf the overpowered tier 8.5 tanks, but Wargaming is afraid of lawsuits if they do that.
I have a 112 premium that I purchased years ago because it never see's tier 10 but it has been power creeped and has only 190 mm pen it would struggle against tier 6 now days.
@@albazar 190 mm pen is okay on a relatively fast firing and accurate medium tank like the T-44 or Type 59.
The 112 for example has 0.42 dispersion, a 12 second reload and only a mediocre 1900 DPM.
It's the combination of multiple bad statistics that ends up really killing the tank.
yes but that would cause an outrage becuase "muh premium I paid money to decimate tier 6s"
The problem is 80% bottom tier matches 10% mid tier 10% top tier matchups, makes me wanna quit again mostly plaing mathilda in t6 and kuro in t9
This is correct - they need to change the template if they are going to keep +2MM
Becoming a problem? That's a joke, right? It was "becoming" a problem 5 years ago. Its the main reason why half the player base or more deserted the game years ago.
More than 5 years ago, i stopped playing like 7 years ago for this very reason, got almost unicum stats and got sick of this crap as new OP tanks just kept making this problem worse and worse. Idk how he just now is speaking about this mind blowing to me.
@@Mystx24 Well, its not that mind-blowing if you think about it. While I like his content in general, lets be honest...he gets paid by wargaming. So he has an incentive to downplay the games shortcomings. He doesn't ALWAYS do that, but the tendency and incentive is there.
7:25 the only "variety" lost will be that you don't have to struggle against good +2 players, while your +2 players are licking themselves, and if unicums, the cream on top of the playerbase, are the only people who lose something of value then that is a sacrifice absolutely worth making
I haven't been playing WoT for a long time, but I dread to think if there are more tanks like the infamous BZ-176 that just obliterates any unfortunate ones in T6 tanks that are matched against them... +/- 2 MM has been loudly voiced by players for a LONG time as a big problem.
Recently spent evening, 6 hours , playing scorpion td at tier 7. Played 43 matches in all. The whole evening, i never saw a tier 5 or 6 tank. 4 matches was all tier 7. 23 matches at tier 8 and 16 at tier 9. its even worse when these matches are quick as you don't have the firepower to influence or halt a char future 4 charging at you. And when you add to this the fact you seem to end up in really "questionable" teams where so called good players play like bots, you feel helpless and just want to uninstall the game.
You end the evening with a less than 30% win rate , where you were only top tier 9.31% of the matches.
all tier 7? in my server thats impossible, tier 7 always play with 8 or 9 or 6 or 5
+2 was a problem years ago. Way before grom or bz-176 or skoda t56 or obj 703. It was a problem when the british tanks were added in the game, because i remember cursing meeting a is3 in the cromwells and comets, when nobody was shooting gold. Yea there is literaly nothing you can do to is 3 while its facing you if you sit in a tier 6 or 7 medium with no gold. As powerful as bz-176 is it is nothing but a free xp and credits for type 5 heavy, the worst tier 10 heavy. The reason why tier 9 is so comfortable is because you only have +1 and you still get to farm all the -2 games.
Ive been saying this for 8 years. +2/-2 is a problem. It was needed during during the early days of Closed Beta due to the small numbers playing, but once the game was released, it should have all been same tier matchmaking. Facing tanks that you cannot pen is not good game play. That's too late now. Now, the only way to fix MM due to decreased numbers playing is +1/-1.
Suggestion, Have + or - one till eight. When at eight have - one / plus two. Nine - one / plus one. Ten - two / their tier
+2MM has been a problem for YEARS.
WG keeps it so that the MM can give bad players a better chance to win when facing tanks 1 or 2 tiers lower. Facing tanks 2 tiers higher also promotes 2 key spam, which WG likes to eat up credits. I only play tier 9 and 10 and these are just some of the reasons why.
Tech tree tier 6 tanks should never face the plethora of their 8 premiums.
as someone who does not use premium ammo, I can say that +2mm at tier 8 does not bother me that much as +2mm on tier 6, as jump in stats between tier 6 and 8 is much bigger then 8 to 10... for example penetration:
tier 6 140mm, tier 8 225mm, thats increase about 60%...
tier 8 225mm to 270, increase about 20%...
etc...
THANK YOU QB for coming back to a regular, casual players view of +/- 2 match making. I have rage quit several times after playing a T6 or T8 and being bottom tier, getting one or two shotted game after game. The Alpha Creep in the upper tiers and, as you mentioned the Pen Creep, has aggravated this to a extreme degree. Playing an E25 in a tier 9 game is a waste of time, all you can do is scout and try to not be spotted. Not to mention T6/7 tanks have a much lower Alpha, there are T8 tanks I would have to pen 5 to 9 times to kill them, while they need just two shots on me. Hard to trade effectively at that rate....
+2 MM is becoming a problem? "Always was."
One of the reasons I gave up playing WoT many years ago was because I got fed up of always (or so it felt) being bottom tier.
You are absolutely right. Playing tier 6 and tier 7 reminds me of the very beginning of WoT when I played M3Lee against KV2 or PzIV against KV5. That's why today we have players who skip grinding all the tanks and play high ranks with little knowledge and experience, thus ruining the game.
adding tier11 is probably the worst idea tbh as it just adds more to the original problem, 1mm is the best way to handle the situation and im surprised it hasnt been implemented already, it fixes loads of balancing issues and makes the game a lot more enjoyable on a game to game basis, especially for casual players who just want to hop on and shoot some shells, not having to sweat in their T34-85 against a Bz 176 or a grom
If they added t11 they should make it play only against other t11 or t10. Ye its painfull to play against bz-176 on t6 but if you play something else than heavy you can avoid them most of the time
i don't think ±2 should be completely removed. however it should me minimized as in if the matchmaker cannot create a game in 3 minutes (aka you're sitting and waiting 3min at the loading screen) then it makes a ±2 game. then I'd be fine with it. its the issue that its so common and you're against really strong tanks like Grom, BZ-176, Skoda T56, Bourrasque, Prog, Vipera and many more where you either get one shot or clipped out quickly, have absolutely no chance of fighting back (BZ-176 or Vipera or Defender) so you're forced to load gold but you still get annihilated in mere moments
Its a feature that worked in the past when the model of the game wasn't about making OP tanks
+2 has always been ass. the bottom tiers rarely have a chance to do anything positive unless theyre played by unicums. if decent to amazing players populate the key top tier tanks on one team the other team nearly always gets steamrolled. +1 is fine, it gives variety while still allowing for everybody on each team to have a decent chance. this will never happen though, the difference in armor in +2 accounts for the majority of 2 key spam in the game, which of course benefits WGs bottom line.
im a decent player, not a pro. i play tanks with the highest standard pen so i dont have to "pay" to affect a match, cuz f that mechanic. me sitting in a 270 ish pen TD as a top tier 9 against 7s, is friggen stupid and not fun for those 7s.
+1/-1 would be the logical and smart move that most players would see as fair. ⚖
ASIA has been +/-1 for 6 years 😂
+2 matchmaking has cost WG more players than we will ever know. Tier 6 tanks should never meet tier 8 and tier 8 should never have to meet tier 10.
"CNN reports: CC finally touches base with the playerbase, reverses their entire position" 😂
More like, CNN: "Toxic gamer rages against small games developer over inclusive matchmaking."
CNN only tells half truths after all.
Kind of a text dump, but I don’t really care:
This the the main reason I no longer play console or the blitz version (never stuck with the PC version) and moved on to War Thunder. Tier 6-10 become the hole where all premium vehicles are, meaning that anybody that plays a premium end up in those tiers.
When you make a tier 8 that can fight tier 10’s and you also make it so that the tier 8 can put up a fight against a tier 10, then it will just annihilate tier 6’s, much like the Grom you played in this video.
This game holds a special place in my heart for what it once was, and while there have been a lot of improvements over time, there have been just as many terrible updates and implementations.
I think there’s just way too many stats in World of Tanks that are used to balance vehicles. As well as War Gaming’s “never nerf a premium” policy. While it’s grounded in good intentions, it just does not hold up anymore.
In War Thunder, most vehicles never have any features removed or added, buffed or nerfed after their introduction. For a vehicle to be changed there has to be a (real) document proving the changes requested exist in real life - hence the occasional classified document leaks that War Thunder produces as a byproduct of this. What War Thunder does do, however, is change the so called “Battle Rating”, equivalent to tiers in World of Tanks, whenever and however they want. That way, a ridiculously strong vehicle at, say 9.0, can be moved to 10.0. It would be nice if World of Tanks had something similar where tanks, depending on their performance, could be moved up or down in tiers.
Not saying War Thunder is perfect, because it is not, but it would be nice if these two “competitors” would actually acknowledge some of the other’s good implementations and implement them themselves.
The matchmaking has been a problem for a decade, not just now...
The problem with +2 comes when you are constantly bottom tier and that gets old quickly. If WG added something where you can be bottom tier 2 games then the next 2 you are either top or even tier.
driving in heavies 2 tiers below the rest of the team is such fun, slow arsed tanks with armour and pen which is useless against tanks 2 tiers above...such fun..oh and the gold spam from 2 tier higher tanks is even MORE fun.... always tier 10 players that say that +/-2 MM is good for the game...
Its unfair how often you are bottom tier in your lower tier tanks, basically cannon fodder, fix it by ensuring that 30% of battles are same tier and the other 30% top tier and most players would enjoy the game so much more.
My biggest problem with the game is the small size of the maps. With small maps. We need maps Where all types of tanks can shine. No matter if you are a paper armor tanks or a assault tanks with no spotting range but heavy armor.
Thats why i like frontline sooo much, only tier 8 and small and medium tanks are very usefull. To def a heavy is ok.
Tanks used to be a whole lot slower and viewranges used to be a lot less as well. That is what the maps are designed for.
The soviet t54 used to be to fast for the server to render lol. Now it isn't concidered fast at all anymore.
@@rogerk6180 I think you're thinking of the old T-50.
@@StarkRaven59 ahh yeah maybe.. long time ago lol.
The game used to have maps with more usable space and variation, even in the "lanes". Next to none of those maps made it into 1.0 for... reasons.
WG is not going to change it. Why? Because people still buy their overpriced virtual premium pixels.
How is that a problem? They could sell tier VII glass cannons (good gun vs tier VIII) and tier IX premiums.
The only way to justify keeping +2 matchmaking is to lessen the power difference between tiers. They did this a little when they buffed lower tier tanks, but I wonder if WG has the fortitude to do this for higher tiers. Personally, I believe tier 6 tanks should never meet tier 8 tanks, the power difference is astronomical. WG should get rid of +2 matchmaking for all tiers or more evenly match the power of the tiers.
Bring back the old MM, from pre-2017. I did a stat study on this. Players were top tier much more and the +2/-2MM wasn't as brutal. The current MM forces more lower tier battles, and frustration. The article was on the old WoTLabs website, which appears to be gone now. 😕
Just add make a hard cut between tier 7 and 8 so they will never meet. Literally the entire problem fixed.
What? QB saying +2 might be a problem?? What's next, he's not recommending vents anymore?
+2/-2 is bad for all 30 players in it
They should get rid of that
MM should be based on modules installed. That way WG can keep current prem tanks more balanced while bringing back old preiums with preferential mm. The best of both worlds. For instance: Make BZ to be placed very often vs tier 9 or 10 (no nerf to the tank). But, if you install weaker turret and weaker gun, you can have for example mm+1. Or take Super Pershing for example. Make it possible to mount way better gun and you have normal mm. B2 that has +0 mm ? Same thing. Mount better gun or turret and you have +1 etc. WG can still balance this game without nerfing premiums. And of course - this would affect tech tree tanks as well. It would be hard & much work to do as each tank would have to be looked at individually, but it is possible.
"Bring back old premiums with special mm" dude they're selling those ALL THE TIME
@@derrickstorm6976 I know... I just think that it is a shame that WG did not went with that route when they are monetizing the game. Those older tanks with preferential mm were much less destructive for the game balance cuz for the most part they are weaker than tech tree ones. All you are really paying here is better match-up. So I do think that if players can "chose" to install worse gun or engine or turret in exchange for +0 or +1 mm it would be overall better for the game. You could "play safe" and play a tank with worse stats or pick top modules , but risking being bottom tier.
Problem is that this require lots of work... to get a less frustrating game... but no money from the player base...
BECOMING a problem. It has been an unenjoyable experience for me for a long, long time.
+2 has always been awful (especially tier 3 vs tier 5 back then when a tank can’t even physically damage another), but power creep is so bad, even in a tier 8 with tier 6 game, if I’m driving a patriot and the enemy team has a BZ176, then it gets harder and harder to treat that tank as a challenge/raid boss and it gets easier and easier to just give up
Also 4:23 before the HE nerf that kv2 had a proper chance, it was the tank version of an equalizer that can even go against a high tier and do damage. Look at it now
11:17 frontline helps pushing tier 8 out of the MM, although you’re still getting depressed from having to fight EBRs, Progettos, and BZs
I don't want tier VIII to be buffed or tier X to be nerfed.
I dont play this game for around 10 years but i keep an eye from time to time thanks to QB and see whats new. The only reason i dont play is matchmaking. I simply refuse to play +2. Until equal or +1 mm comes into the game im ready to give my money.
Yeah being the lower end in the match maker sucks on +2games . But i find it even worst that the teams are most of the times uneven in skills. Either u crush the enemys or u get overrun.
+2MM is a crime for the average player. As a super unique you probably look at this differently, but with a tech.tree tier tank 6 against a Grom all fate is lost to you in advance. Long live variety!
the game needs a very good and fair HP rebalance. the amount off HP from tier 6 to tier 8 is very big and in my opinion the amount off HP should be no more than 100 or 150 ph. increase per tier
The best tiem for premiums will always be when they were better than stock tanks, but worse than upraded ones... was a great template but they f***ed it up
It would be great if the matchmaker could take into account player stats/rating and make it so that less skillful players would more likely get into same tier matches, average players would be more likely to get +1 tier matches and good players would more likely get into +2 tier matches. This way those who just like to play casually would be met with other casual players and those sweaty ones would more likely meet other sweaty players. Although this would only solve tier 8 and below battles and maybe tier 9 battles...
Console WoT is even worse. Now there’s some tier IX tanks that are so broken they’re dominating tier X. Even if the tier VIII is only +1 they have zero chance
Nightstalker OP
Skill based and equal tanks would help new players earn new skills right NOW most games are just blowouts. That only benefits people with deep pockets and WG.
There's a reason why in War Thunder you only got uptiered to at most only 1.0 BR. Imagine you play Tiger I at 6.0 and have to fight an M48 Patton at 8.0☠
2+ MM has always been a problem in WoT because of the HP mechanic of WoT, that's why i quit WoT after playing it for more than 6 years and move to War Thunder
Big thanks to point out WOT's one of major problem.
They seems like, they just gave up to bring new players at the moment.
Don't agree, plus two mm makes gold rounds a necessity. It also makes games go very quick because of unequal tanks facing each other. I guess both things benefit wg though. Not the players.
If T5-T7 premium tanks had better credit making potential, it would instantly make the matchmaking a lot better at mid tiers
+2 MM is a problem for the reasons QB says.. too many premium tier 8 tanks make people play only that tier, ruins the experience with tier 6 / 7 tanks. If they want to balance easy and make money doing it, WG can start to sell new tier 6 tanks with good stats. Or give at tanks like Grom different MM (like for Pz. B2 for example, but instead MM equal tier maximum, it can be +0 / +2 for Grom)
The problem is also the unfair mm, one team full of good players even with purple wtr against low and mid players. Quess who wins? Its unfair at the least. 😊
Давно брали интервью.
Это специально сделано для эмоциональных качель. По сути как игра в казино или автоматы где от тебя зависит лишь нажатие кнопки.
Without readjusting the whole game so there is much less differentiation between tiers, 3 tiers in one game is untenable. It is okay for some tanks especially lights. However, in the meantime, WOT could make it much better for the bottom tiers by providing much bigger rewards for having been shafted, so I can afford all the premium ammo I have to expend. Also, in the meantime, I will continue to desert in 1/2 the games I am bottom of three tiers (the ones where I am clearly just cheap bait). Do the same and WOT might wake up and listen.
What about 80% of games is finished 15-5 and in first 3-4 min after games starts is 5k HP difference?
They need to flip the template - We need less bottom tier tanks - You would only get those games less than 20% of your games. Or go 5-5-5 -
Top tier (7)-5-3 would get to where your only bottom tier about 20-15% of your games maybe less - Also it would release the Stress on top tier players to carry games
Or treat the lower Tiers as a difficulty check , Tier 1-6 +1 -1 Tier 7 is minus 1 and never sees tier 8 or 9 , tier 8 is big boy play +2 MM
Reducing MM by -1 (so +1 by default) without individually looking at each tank would be kinda catastrophical. I mean, you have tanks like TOG II with mm+1. Is TOG a good tank ? No. The only reason it is playable is because of the MM. If all of the tier 6 tanks would also have mm+1 then TOG is pretty much gone. Why play it if you can play M6 or T-34 85M ? Something like this already happened in WOT at low tiers. Tanks like B2 or Valentine II went from very strong to mediocre at best as all of the low tiers got mm +1. Or, some tanks like PZ S35 had mm+2 (very often vs tier 5) & got mm+1 and are now ungodly OP.
For me, I think WoT changed when everything got faster and more accurate.
(I'll preface this with I have been playing since the Beta >10 years ago) There was a time when class (light, med, heavy) meant something and you could count the amount of vehicles that could hit a reasonably sized cupola at range (4/10 times in a row) on one hand. The only thing lights could pen from the front were other lights and the lightest of meds at close range, but, heavies couldn't track you at close range/keep up with you unless they used their brains and positioned. There was a time when WoT was slower and planning on a team lv meant more (if you were an IS-2, you were meant to be the wall of one side of the map. You were very slow, slow to reload, and couldn't hit shit unless they were less than 200m away, but if you did they knew it. And you were a wall, even to most tier 7s and some tier 8s. It took teamwork to pull out an entrenched heavy, but the tradeoff was that they were inflexible.).
I could go on for ages but I think you get the idea.
I think the other big change was the HE mechanic change. Sure your KV-2 reloaded slower than a snails pace but it didn't matter if you were fighting tier 8s or tier 5s, you had the 152mm gun and you slapped stuff with HE. However they've now reworked the HE mechanic and thus what was a tank that even tier 8s didn't really want to roll infront of (since even if the HE didn't pen it would still slap you for 400 damage and knock out some modules) became something they could just ignore as much as any other tier 6.
This was the tradeoff for taking the derp guns on tanks, you were always going to do damage but you were not likely to pen. Now Derp guns are basicaly pointless.
Faster, more alpha, a lot more autoloaders, more pen, more viewrange, much better equipment.
All on maps that where designed for how tanks used to be in 2015.
@@rogerk6180 I think the biggest hit to light tanks (and the reason they almost always have to be 50/50 damage dealers) is that most meds and a lot of other tanks can easily max out view range. In maps as "small" as these, most light tanks have very small avenues of movement and the increased accuracy means they are almost always punished heavily for any mistakes.
@@m.d.598 yeah. There are more things that add to this. The fact that repair kits and medkits are now renewable. When was the last time you saw anyone with a damaged engine or gun? Or people having to play more cautious because they already burned their repair kit.
2 loadouts to choose from at every battle makes balanced loadouts a thing of the past because everyone has a perfect maximised loadout now for every battle. Even faster on big maps, even mkre stealthy on bushy maps etc.
All this stuff seems like a positive development as a player, but in reality it isn't. It is just even more powercreep and makes strong tanks even stronger. And it heavilly favors better or more dedicated over casual players. Making quality of life for casual players increasingly misserable..
100% Same tier is sooooo rare QB, not fun going t8 against 4-6 t10s😢
Vast majority of premium tanks are T8. It stands to reason there will be many more players selecting T8. Maybe a better option would be for WG to add more T8 premiums like the Super Pershing that has +1 MM.
Also, when you get T6 as a T8 there will only be 3 T8 on each team. Sadly MM has no clue how good players so a good T8 played by a good player will decimate the other team more times than not.
I think limiting the tanks capabilities and balancing around +1 -1 MM and using this on these premiums will definitely help and also aid some more gameplay in tiers 9 and 7
It really hasn't been that much of a problem over the last few years. The problem is coming from the fact that they keep adding new tanks with different stats some overpowered some not.
Meanwhile, the mid-tier is like tier 6 and tier 7. Barely have gotten that many changes at all to keep up with all of the tier 8s and new tier 9 premiums being added
for experienced player +3mm is actually good fun for LTs back before 9.18
still remember in my M5A1 dealing with tier7 tank and still be somewhat viable
or clapping the shit out of some is-3 in my chaffee... aaah good old memries...
Perhaps they should just do +1/-1 until teir 8 with 8having +2/-1?
I agree. Most tier 7 vs tier 8 already feels like +2 mm. Also, it would work good with them now introducing more tier 9 premiums.
Me fighting a bz 176 in a 40 habicha goes great! 👀
the only issue i have with +2mm is the fact that if im lucky 8/10 matches im bottom tier !!! and when im not on bottom its an even tier match ...NEVER top tier
I would be careful what you wish for. When they wanted more tier 7s in the Blitz matchmaker they just released a bunch of wildly overpowered premiums lol
Being an artillery is less of a simple game style than playing these tanks
Yup. Tier 8 prems are the new clickers. Push w and click. Ruining the game.
Go, play op arty on 5-6 tier or 9-10
Я до сих пор помню как на t-29 попал против grille и lefh арты и они меня деражи на катке и убиваои без шансов двинуться.
Tier 7 has some really nice tanks. But sadly, they don't make as much money as Tier 8s, so people just save up to buy a Tier 8 Premium and move on. I used to have a lot of Tier 7s for "crew trainers", but now with Crew Skills 2.0, they're rather pointless.
Maybe just buff the Tier 7 income ? Give all Premium Tanks the ability to make x amount of bonds per week, so that you have some reason to play them ? Like 10 bonds for a Tier 5 Premium, 15/20 for Tier 6, 30/50 for Tier 7, a 100 for a Tier 8 ? Just shooting the breeze here. But yeah, unless I'm grinding a new line, I don't dip below Tier 8 nowadays.
I'd go for a -1/+2 MM, So premiums only meet 1 tier below, 2 tier higher
I apologize to all the tier 6s i damage or destroy in my Grom, it shouldn't find tiers that low
i apologize to you when you meet me in my tier 10😂
YOU FINALLY NOTICED???????? WTF TOOK YOU THIS LONG??????????????????????????????????
I have been playing since the beginning. i have watched the maps change over the years. i have noticed that the map changes have forced everyone into head to head battles . fun for some and not so fun for others.I believe these head to head battles are the cause of these 3 minute games. we have no choice but to run towards the opposing team head on . which results into a 3 or 4 min game . Which makes some players to spend gold to survive in the game! they put an overpowered tank into the game for a few months . Which everyone has to spend gold to get . Then nerf the tank down the road. then do it again over and over with new tanks coming on board. sounds like a good money maker to me.
QB needs to see how console is failing, adding more fake tanks that ruin the game, really kills the fun that was there.
WG is too busy pushing shite into the game no one asked for. They haven't got time to sort out things we'd like to see like new maps and better mm!!
This all started with the Chrysler K controversy. This is partly why WG is making so many t9 premiums now to fill that gap between 8 and 10.
And now u rarely see Chrysler k lol
It started with the skorpg
@@kodiakanubis16 Chrystler K was the first truly OP tank because lower tiers couldn't kill it and it dominated top tier. Skorpion G just has a good gun on a relatively mobile platform. They're not the same.
Personally, this on its own wouldn't be a huge problem, but the sheer number of blatantly OP tier 8 tanks in the game make tier 6 nearly unplayable. What exactly is a Churchill 7 supposed to do against something like a Grom or a BZ-176? It can't flank them, can't bounce them, can't pen them, can't out-trade them, and is slower into position than them. So what exactly is the point when your only selling point (your DPM) is obliterated by something like a Grom that you can do nothing about?
In the past, I think +2MM was less problematic when you consider the scaling on the game in the past when improvement was roughly linear through the tiers. However, over time, Tier VIII, IX, and X have essentially broken away from the rest of the tiers. At least in my own experience, the Patriot used to be a particularly powerful Tier VIII, but now it is pretty mediocre in comparison to many other recent Tier VIII releases since then. By contrast, a Cromwell has been almost entirely unchanged since that time. While Tier VIII, IX, and X have seen lots of new releases and steady powercreep, the lower tiers have just not kept up. Maybe you buff all the lower tier tanks again or introduce +1/-1MM for low tiers?
And the patriot has been buffed conciderably in the meantime as well...
The Patriot was part of the first wave of "WTF Wargaming" power creep, along with the Skorpion and Defender. They were so obviously better than their tech tree counterparts and other premiums, people raised hell when they first appeared.
With tier 10 and 9 excluded; it doesn't really seem to matter what tier I play - I'm usually 2 tiers down. It's rare that I"m ever top tier in a two tier spread. I get the occasional all tier 8 game, but for the most part; I'm bottom tier no matter what I play.
sure the grom, not the bz176, not the bourat, not progetto, defender and all the broken nonsense before. its the grom
WG don’t give a damn about rough parity amongst same tier tanks. It just wants to make money. If it cared at all, there’s a whole back catalog of premium tanks to buff. Can’t recall when I last played my FV4202. That’s basically a tier 7 these days
Tier 7 has been the Red Headed Stepchild of the MM, and the Game as a Whole, for a While... WG makes Tier 8 Premium's to Sell the Game, and Players are in their 10's because WG Feeds them Blueprints to GET Tier 10's... Most of them shouldn't BE in a Tier 10 when they are because the Grind is almost Completely Removed anymore, so they don't get to Learn the Game... If you Play Long Enough, WG'll Unlock most Tanks FOR You, I have all Lines Unlocked to Tier 8 at least without ever starting the Lines...
I've been saying for a Long While now that +/-2 MM is Out of Date because if the Tanks they've Added... Defender is just another Russian Heavy, but when it came Out, it was a Monster until people figured it out... But it was a Start of Not so Good Things to Come... And Now, New Players START with Three Tier 3 Tanks, No Tier 1's, and everything they Need to put them In Over their Heads from the Outset.... And when you hit Tier 6, you have Grom and BZ's to deal with in an M4 or a Cromwell.... Not alot of Forward Thinking went into some of the Decisions by WG where the Game and it's Future went, just their Wallets I'm beginning to Think...