@@Gurra Oh yeah. Not denying that our country was pretty shit at this point. Just kinda sick of the whole "breaking minor nations" to the point where you sit to 1944 and getting rid of modifiers.
I am a Swede but I still want Norway to be a fun nation and more like Finland. Standing up against a more powerful country. The dlc is called arms against tyranny so that is what I want Norway to do as Norway. But as you say you will crush is in the winter sport anyways.
9:46 in real life Quisling was shortly ousted by Terboven when Hitler saw that most Norwegians didn’t like him. However in 1942 or 43 (can’t quite remember) they brought him back as a scapegoat, so that the people would be more mad at him than at the administration
This might be a hot take, but I do like the idea of nations that have a lot of problems and negative modifiers to overcome. Not every nation needs to be a hidden superpower waiting to be unleashed, or even as viable as everyone else. I like the idea of weak and struggling nations that you can either take advantage of as their opponent, try and prop up as their ally, or try and salvage playing as them. I will have to see how this tree plays out in practice, but I like the concept of weakened minor countries that have a lot going against them - both rp and gameplay wise.
Same. Netherlands starts with alot of negatives. It's one of the funner minors. Portugal starts weak and with several negative spirits. And ends up being one of the strongest minors.
THis here. THIS. No Nation. No Nation was in real best shape for a war to fight, no matter which country in 1936, everyone had problems. And overcoming those, making ready for war is the challenge. And without a challenge there is no fun. I don't get the whole "oh they made the country worse!" thing, esp if its the historical freakin background they implemented! Like, if Norways historical army was sh. and the government didn't want to improve on it, why should you be able to change that on historical?
I think neutering Norway in the historical path is acceptable given what happened in the actual war, BUT... if you survive like 3-4 months, I think you should have an extra path which gives you some bonuses to stability and core attack/defense etc given you've defended your nation and the people are united against the odds or something like that. Having to pick between quisling or govermnent in exile isnt gonna be fun..
@@thomasandersr If you count GDP per capita in 1938 Norway was by no means the richest. It sits at 11th place between France and the british dominions. source: Statista
I'm pretty sure you can quash Quisling's rebellion and keep fighting if you so choose if you have enough troops. You won't become a gov in exile unless you lose.
@@someonethatlikesyou7713 the ottoman tree looks like someone said oh fuck this ottoman history shit too long fuck i didnt think i had to do this much shit oh fuck. and then they proceeded to copy paste all of ottoman history from wikipedia in a straight line w no alt history shit
Fun fact from a Norwegian guy, did you know Quisling and his helpers were the last people ever in Norwegian history to get the death sentence. Also the Norwegian word for betrayer of the state (which is a crime, it is illegal) was actually changed to Quisling, so if you do that here in Norway you will be put in prison for doing a Quisling. Have a nice day
The reason was because he travaled to Germany and spok to Hitler aboute Norway being run by the so called judeo-bolsheviks, and that he was acctually populare in Norway, so he sold out his country just for his owne personale gain, so here in Norway, not only is his name tied with traitor of the state but speeking positivt aboute his, can result in one getting beaten up, i have a friend who started saying that Quisling was a good guy, just missunderstood, i said that he had to STFU quick before we got beten up, i mine you he did this on the 8th of may.
@@thomasandersr The Netherlands stalled Germany, but got the threat and after capitulation even the execution of a firebombing campaign on Rotterdam. Also didn’t help basically no one was willing to sell weapons to the government to replace the 19- and 18-century weapons The Belgians would have lasted longer if they hadn’t forgotten to build AA on their big-ass fortification system. Vs land targets it was impressive but it got destroyed but also invaded from the air. France’s high command was a bad joke. Denmark said ‘Fuck this’ and didn’t do a thing to prep at all.
Sadly, Oscarbsorg was an outlier. There were other forts along the cosatline, most of which were hardly an issue for the germans. It's also worth pointing out that the torpedo-battery was underwater, concealed and secret. The Germans didn't know about it, allowing it to surprise them.
Fun fact Jan Mayen held out for all of WW2, 4 courageous Norwegian soles embarked on a campaign of sending their weather reports to the UK instead of Germany, it was abandoned over the 40/41 winter and manned again in the spring but German boots never set foot on it. (there was an attempt to take them but the Royal Navy had something to say about it) Conversely another part of Norway, Bear Island, was the last German holdout of the war as the 2 Germans manning the weather station there didn't have an opportunity to surrender until 04/09/45, 4 months after VE day when some Norwegian whalers stopped off on the island, the Allies had no clue they were there.
For people wondering why you can bring back Quisling at the end of Get Rid of Quisling path: Historically even though Quisling helped the Germans to take over Norway, Germany didn't make him the leader of Norway (at first).
11:25 That what we would actually need for hitler. Really hate the fact that they give those minors so weird complex and new mechanichs but totally don't do anything about the majors where it would actually make sense and would have some game impact.
@@juncheok8579you know what, I'm down for it. Would be fun. But prior to this update, Germany had a tree. The monarchist one is good. There are other countries who need the love more.
@@christoperwallace6197 imo they should reworke germany historical path. Germany is the main playet im WW2 and the focustree end in 41 pretty pathetic in compared to the soviets, italy and even france, the uk and the usa
@@mistergeorge420 You mean the 2nd longest invasion in the war kind of speed bump? Only the invasion of Russia took longer for obvious reasons. But who doesn't like speed bumps that require you to have 400k soldiers there at all times.
this doesnt actually ruin norway and is mostly pretty historical and the norwegians didnt know about that germany would even invade them so i like this focus tree
@@Neptunes_Bounty yall are misunderstanding the hate, even bittersteel said he disliked this. I am all for Norway being very weak because that is historically accurate, but so weak that it cannot feasibly do *anything at all* other than be a speed bump for the germans, or become an incredibly weak puppet, is just not fun at all. Would you want to play this? Would you play this historical democratic Norway? People don't like this because they want to play their own nation and _have basic fucking fun. I actually like many of these focuses and modifiers being there, but it should be easier to remove and instead of getting 3 fucking factories when the Germans are already invading_ maybe getting something like Sisu that ramps up as the months go by, getting more free divisions as time goes by as people take to arms, fortifying the mountains, the trails and the fjords as they hold out against the oncoming invasion would simply be more fun. I guess there is a chance the unhistorical democratic path, _if there is one_ , may have what we want. It seems entirely plausible to me that if the government went a different path and prepared for war, that something like what i said would be possible. Of course, i'm just trying to tell you my thoughts and hope you can see it more from my side of it, and whatever happens i just hope my country at least gets a somewhat fun role to play. Have a good day and thank you for listening to my ted talk. _I mean, wouldn't it be the perfect chance to add proper guerrilla warfare? We got that nature and mountains and fjords after all_ .
Seeing these decisions, does Paradox actually play Hoi4? Getting mils using PP after getting declared on? Seriously? Does Norway come with a PP printer so you can afford this? Does it also magically produce equipment over night in those factories?
It is a vic3 meme tho Spiff did some funny stuff with it. Such as building a billion factories on a rock, fitting 1million people on a rock, and the British feeling threatened by A ROCK.
@@bruhbruh-us6gl Because grouping together such a large part of Norway doesn't really make sense. People living in the area speak completely different dialects, and it is just weird grouping them all together. Mostly just a joke though.
@@InfiniteDeckhanddenmark will get two focuses one of them is to surrender immediately (tbf they did irl) They’ll also get a national spirit called “Being danish” which gives -80% on every modifier ever
They gutted Norway to the ground. No national spirits with any benefits like Notraship which was the biggest shipping company in the world or anything. Stupid
I like it in a way that the Quisling coup is nation ruining, historically German occupation of Norway was troublesome. What concerns me a little after reading this dev diary is that Norway and Denmark is gonna be the unwanted stepchild of this DLC. The Military and Industrial path for Norway is very generic by the looks of it. Seems to give some factories and research bonus, but little in terms of giving unique bonuses or flavor. Sure you can get rid of the horrible debuff, but no reward at the end, no buff to winter warfare or special forces buff? Like not saying that you should get buffs to make Norwegian space marines, but it would be nice with something unique there. Both Sweden and Finland has extensive industry/military by the looks of things while Norway looks like it can get bland or generic. Ofc I'm biased here being Norwegian so gonna have to wait and see with the Denmark tree and later the alt history. Still cautiously optimistic since I personally enjoy a lot of the recent focus trees pdx made, but rn looks like more effort is being used on Finland and Sweden. No ski inf/mountain or winter focus for military branch of Norway, really???
I'm surprised at that democratic path. I would have guessed that a successful democratic player would have been encouraged to retreat to a defensible line in the north and gradually acquire buffs and weapons until they would be able to retake the country by themselves. Instead it appears that they would to like the democratic player to go the "piggyback on the US and UK" approach like the Dutch.
Im guessing that the alt history path is going to be so much better than the historical path and that the historical path will serve no other purpose than just getting absolutely steamrolled by the germans. If that is the case, i can't imagine just how horrible denmark's historical focus tree will be like since they lost a war in six whopping hours.
Norway was not doing so great during the 30s but not that bad. And their Costal forts were Norways strong point, so its sad that they debuffed it so much
One thing that would be interesting to add would be Quisling's time as defense minister under an earlier government. Quisling, before selling out to the Germans, was actually defense minister for a short period of time and he was very much against the Norwegian dearmament policies of the time. He used the limited funds he had to actually do what he could to strengthen Norway’s defense, which became crucial later when the German’s invaded. So in an ironic twist, one of the reasons why Norway managed to hold out so long against Germany as we did (two months), was Quisling himself. So I would very much like a feature where you can add him as defense minister and then use him to circumvent some of the armaments restrictions early in the game, but of course having him also gives boost to fascism. So it is a balancing act.
I feel like paradox doesn't learn. The Spanish civil war system is hated for its complexity and how much it artificially slows the war down. Yet here they are again implementing similar features to Norway. I think they just need to take a page out of the book from the kaisereich devs.
I would have thought Norway would get some cool resistance bonuses or a focus when "La Resistance" was released. Then the new dev diary came out and sadly that seems to not be the case.
Norway, one of the least fascist nations in the time period, getting a ticking fascism modifier feels silly. Surely they should get a democratic one instead. Or just a malus to communism straight-up.
As I'm mainly just playing Kaiserreich, I really don't mind nations being debuffed at the start. It means you have less options in military early on as you probably can't afford an air force or tank corp until a year or two into the actual war, but for minor nations like Norway this isn't that bad. It also allows you to continually improve your military as you survive the war. Basically emulates how you adapt to enemy tactics and new technologies.
I know right? Paradox needs to cater to people from speed bump nations. Fuck balance, as soon as Germany even thinks of rearming the Rhineland, they should get dogpiled by a roided out democratic France, Poland, Denmark, and Austria. War over in 1936. Riveting gameplay.
I think it makes perfect sense that the historical tree is crap, if you want to save Norway, obviously you don’t want things to go historically anyway.
Honestly, this kinda makes sense. Germany already needs to get a successful naval invasion while at war against the Royal Navy just to LAND in Norway. Player-controlled Scandinavia with the old tree was BUSTED.
The longest invasion in history if you don't count the German invasion of Russia (because Russia is so much bigger) yet this is how they're represented in game? Kinda silly, why would the invasion by Germany take so long if this represents the actual state of Norway. I would understand it for Denmark since that fell in 5 hours, but Norway actually forced like 400k germans to get in there. EDIT: Ok some of the Quisling viking stuff is cool. But Norway sank Blucher with an old torbedo from a coastal fort... Why does have -50% to coastal forts?
Honestly there are some good elements to this. I think Norway is currently way too easy to save from AI Germany if you are playing a nation like the UK. Just dropping a couple divisions on the Baltic ports that you can't naval patrol after Denmark is gone shuts them out almost entirely in most games. I also think that historical accuracy is more valuable than game balance given that alt-history paths do exist and can be used if you play your game as a detached strategy sim. If all the paths are as catastrophically crippling as these ones, then I may concede it's a problem.
Irl, Brittain did want access to at least the north, but Norway held its' neutrality in the hopes of avoiding the war alltogether. (it worked in ww1, right?). And Brittain DID send help, along with the french and free polish forces. Together, the combined force of four nations were able to retake Narvik in the north, (Narvik was the ultimate goal of Germanys' invasion). However, when some 'interesting' things started happening in Belgium and northern France, the allies pulled out to relocate forces. Why defend Narvik when Paris was threatened?
Finally Norway focuses!! In my mind: A potentially strong fleet, cool marine bonuses, and the goal the claim the Old Norway Realm. In paradox: Norway is weaker… why don’t we make it more weaker… Yeah that’s perfect… Aaaahh… and also pacifist. But the players are going to be at 1940 without doing nothing…. Yeaaah and also they are going to pay me for that. The only cool thing it’s the tank model. I really like it.
To be fair. This is historical norway. In withs their country was not prepered for war. Just as sweden. (becouse we sent most of our guns to finland during the singer war) Im guessing if you go un historical norway will be mutch fun.
So BitterSteel, whenever you get to play this focus tree, the way i understood the development and defense mechanics is this: Development 3 tiers: Tier 1 - Local Manpower +10% (It`s Alright) Civ Construction +25% (Good) Fort build -10% (meh, but bad) __________________________________ Tier 2 - Same as above + Local Resources +10% (unless they gave norway more resources this is just meh) Max entranchment -20% (Real bad) Military fact construction -15% (real bad) railway construction +15% (meh) __________________________________ Tier 3- Same as above+ Local Supplies -10% (bad) Org Regain -10%(really bad) Airbase construction +25%( ok) Naval Docyard construction +15%(good) __________________________________ Then, everytime you take a defnse decision you go down a tier in development. Tier 2 and 3 IMO are straight out bad, the best buff which is Civ Construction is tier 1, but then what i think might be funny is that you can basically buy divisions/mils with Political power/convoys. Assuming you can take the decisions more than once, you can develop a state to tier 1, stay there for the start of the game building civs, and when you need you can develop it to tier 2 and immediatly take the defense decision bringing it back to tier 1 and gaining a military factory. Or do the same but up to tier 3 gaining 2 divisions and a military factory when you go back down to tier 1. Is this good? absolutely not, but it`s A strat. _______________________________ I honestly don't see a point to playing historical norway when playing monarchist will aslo probably put you in the allies and give you an actual country. Also, cmon man, 35 days for 3 COASTAL forts on 1 province, Axis AI barely naval invades, you already get a massive bonus to defending invasions and you can always build them yourself in like 3 weeks either way. That focus is useless like most fort focus on the game. They really need to change the tree otherwise it just won`t be fun to play, i`d just like to remember that all baltic countries when NSB released had a focus that gave them 6 divs, 6! meanwhile norway gets focus that negatively impact your country on literally every branch, wth.
I hope they do some good plane models for Norway and Denmark, they were able to produce a few early war designs, and used a lot of other designs mid and late war, so there's more than nothing to go off of, maybe a Focus to travel to America to acquire the N3PB and other planes that they historically purchased, perhaps?
I think the kings no would be a great opportunity. Governments in exile could be interesting, and I hope they implement something about the Norwegian saboteurs.
I really hope those "claims" at the bottom actually give you a war goal or cores. Just claims is a garbage focus like the bottom of the A-H path in Hungary's tree
I like it, a historical Norway should stand no chance against Germany, even with player control it should be very difficult. To stand a chance you should have to take an alt-history path. Making a country more historically accurate is a good thing in my opinion.
@@ItzLucky90 They lasted longer because there is a sea between them and Germany lol, if they shared a border Norway would have fallen much quicker. Their military was not on the level as Poland or France.
@@rocksjoshuadon’t forget after the invasion Norway’s military equipment and capital fell in less than 24 hours, it was the allies furnace and uk continuing fighting before they gave up and left
Made me laugh seeing Quisling going from prim and proper to that last defeated look xD Hopefully there's an event after the germans have capitulated where he's executed as happened irl
hopefully there will be an unhistorical democratic path that lets you actually have a chance. I mean, if you tick historical AI focuses off and sweden tries to invade you, like...what are you ever feasibly going to be able to do about it? *How are you ever supposed to survive in pvp?*
I think its good to make Norway weak. It prevents minor nations power creep; While it is annoying when playing Norway, it makes the game actually continue as normal and not grind to a halt because all the minor nations are able to stand up to Germany. IMO, it is also more fun because of the challenge.
At first i thought the norway tree was very cool especially the way i tend to play ally countries and buuld civ until the war hits but then i heard quisling and was like. Oh
Honestly, every time they release a new dynamic focus tree that “makes a country weaker”, it just points to the larger issue: that default tree is absolutely busted and needs a rework.
It seems like paradox made it pretty hard to hold against the Germans for three months. Like in ww2 Norway hels longer than France when they were invaded, however it seems like that will be quite hard with the dlc
Norway did kinda capitulated after 24h, they had no equipment no military and no leading cities left, it was 2 months before the allies capitulated whom had been holding smaller cities and was the main fighting force l
@@arvalb0 yes, Norway did capitulate just days after the allied forces retreated, but my point was kind of that the focus didn’t really consider the fighting in the north and merely has you go into exile right after you’re invaded
Could be more worse then the spanish civil war if norway has limited amount of mf then im ded because how am i supposed to survive the german if i don't have the equipment
Literally Swedish propaganda. Inb4 the Swedish focus tree has them be an absolute power house with free annexations, free faction, free manpower and factories
During the war Sweden became the Europe’s power house, strongest civilian economy and historically was the nordic empire, dont call it propaganda when it was real
The explanation for how they made the Rikstanken made me have a very confused look like... It sounded (and looked when the picture was shown) like a bad idea, and I'd be surprised if it could even fire without breaking down
I am starting to think about their memes. They did with spiffing brit with this Island which he made into a power house better than Russia. And now think bittersteel. Imagine dlc for belgium. They Will probably add something that mention you in some way or another and because of your nick name, it can be fairly easy to put it somewhere.
If the historical path made it possible/likely for Norway to resist the invasion it wouldn't be historical anymore. (is my take at least) As a Norwegian i'm just glad i'm getting nordic focus trees at all :)
If this is Norway, just IMAGINE what will this Swedish developer do to Denmark
Would be amazing what they would do
There going to give them 2 focus
@@Nordbon1523based pfp
Two focus: one loses them factories, the other loses them troops.
Typical Svea Rike fanboys.
Quisling being a comedy inversion of the typical leader progression for people like Mussolini and Selassie is fantastic.
😂
i mean he was a joke, a greedy shit stain that leeched his way to some relevancy but was not liked by almost anyone.
Sweden killing us with this focus man... I expected nothing less. We will take gold in the winter sport anyways, they can't change that fact.
Historically accurate norway.
@@Gurra Oh yeah. Not denying that our country was pretty shit at this point. Just kinda sick of the whole "breaking minor nations" to the point where you sit to 1944 and getting rid of modifiers.
I am a Swede but I still want Norway to be a fun nation and more like Finland. Standing up against a more powerful country. The dlc is called arms against tyranny so that is what I want Norway to do as Norway. But as you say you will crush is in the winter sport anyways.
Sweden will wreck you guys in womens cross country skiing
Remember that this is the historical focus tree
9:46 in real life Quisling was shortly ousted by Terboven when Hitler saw that most Norwegians didn’t like him. However in 1942 or 43 (can’t quite remember) they brought him back as a scapegoat, so that the people would be more mad at him than at the administration
This might be a hot take, but I do like the idea of nations that have a lot of problems and negative modifiers to overcome. Not every nation needs to be a hidden superpower waiting to be unleashed, or even as viable as everyone else. I like the idea of weak and struggling nations that you can either take advantage of as their opponent, try and prop up as their ally, or try and salvage playing as them. I will have to see how this tree plays out in practice, but I like the concept of weakened minor countries that have a lot going against them - both rp and gameplay wise.
Same. Netherlands starts with alot of negatives. It's one of the funner minors. Portugal starts weak and with several negative spirits. And ends up being one of the strongest minors.
THis here. THIS. No Nation. No Nation was in real best shape for a war to fight, no matter which country in 1936, everyone had problems. And overcoming those, making ready for war is the challenge. And without a challenge there is no fun. I don't get the whole "oh they made the country worse!" thing, esp if its the historical freakin background they implemented! Like, if Norways historical army was sh. and the government didn't want to improve on it, why should you be able to change that on historical?
Yeah. Negative modifiers make a nation look like they still stuck in WW1/interwar era standard
With paradox track record they probably have Norway a good (or at least decent) monarchist tree, as they did hide it from us
Absolutely! Since hoi4 doesn't have win conditions anyways, you can set your own goals. In Norways case:
Current objective: survive
I think neutering Norway in the historical path is acceptable given what happened in the actual war, BUT... if you survive like 3-4 months, I think you should have an extra path which gives you some bonuses to stability and core attack/defense etc given you've defended your nation and the people are united against the odds or something like that. Having to pick between quisling or govermnent in exile isnt gonna be fun..
@@thomasandersr If you count GDP per capita in 1938 Norway was by no means the richest. It sits at 11th place between France and the british dominions.
source: Statista
@@thomasandersrMore like Norwegian Cope. Norway only lasted two months keep Seething.
@@thomasandersr Other historical focuses dont do this type of crap so...
@@Neptunes_Bountyyea I'm not understanding all this complaining. Seems like people had unrealistic holes for Norway.
I'm pretty sure you can quash Quisling's rebellion and keep fighting if you so choose if you have enough troops. You won't become a gov in exile unless you lose.
Who could have thought that DLC will ruin a nation?
Bosporos did same to Turkey
@@Dron4747 nah ottoman tree carries turkey
@@someonethatlikesyou7713 the ottoman tree looks like someone said oh fuck this ottoman history shit too long fuck i didnt think i had to do this much shit oh fuck. and then they proceeded to copy paste all of ottoman history from wikipedia in a straight line w no alt history shit
When I watched your video, I didn't really agree with that but now I think I do.
Make it somewhat historically accurate = ruining it
Fun fact from a Norwegian guy, did you know Quisling and his helpers were the last people ever in Norwegian history to get the death sentence. Also the Norwegian word for betrayer of the state (which is a crime, it is illegal) was actually changed to Quisling, so if you do that here in Norway you will be put in prison for doing a Quisling. Have a nice day
The fact that you got "the traitor of the state" title named after him just shows how widely he was hated. May I ask you why?
@@VasiliyOgniovyeah I wanna know too
Why did they?
The reason was because he travaled to Germany and spok to Hitler aboute Norway being run by the so called judeo-bolsheviks, and that he was acctually populare in Norway, so he sold out his country just for his owne personale gain, so here in Norway, not only is his name tied with traitor of the state but speeking positivt aboute his, can result in one getting beaten up, i have a friend who started saying that Quisling was a good guy, just missunderstood, i said that he had to STFU quick before we got beten up, i mine you he did this on the 8th of may.
@@catfacecat. Nazi collaborator
@@VasiliyOgniovhe collaborated with the nazis
considering its the historical path, neutering norway makes complete sense. like they should be a speed bump, just like they were in actual ww2
Norway lasted longer then freaking France man, and could held out longer as well if it wasn’t far the fact that allied forces withdrew
@@animegandalf8690do u forget why allied forces withdrew?
@@animegandalf8690 But I think norway Ai can perfectly last 2 months with this focus tree
@@thomasandersr2 months isn’t exactly a long time mate. All those nations were practically speed bumps for the nazi war machine
@@thomasandersr The Netherlands stalled Germany, but got the threat and after capitulation even the execution of a firebombing campaign on Rotterdam. Also didn’t help basically no one was willing to sell weapons to the government to replace the 19- and 18-century weapons
The Belgians would have lasted longer if they hadn’t forgotten to build AA on their big-ass fortification system. Vs land targets it was impressive but it got destroyed but also invaded from the air.
France’s high command was a bad joke. Denmark said ‘Fuck this’ and didn’t do a thing to prep at all.
How does the only country in history to sink a modern warship with a torpedo fired from a coastal fort have a -50.00% to it's coastal forts?
Sadly, Oscarbsorg was an outlier. There were other forts along the cosatline, most of which were hardly an issue for the germans.
It's also worth pointing out that the torpedo-battery was underwater, concealed and secret. The Germans didn't know about it, allowing it to surprise them.
Fun fact Jan Mayen held out for all of WW2, 4 courageous Norwegian soles embarked on a campaign of sending their weather reports to the UK instead of Germany, it was abandoned over the 40/41 winter and manned again in the spring but German boots never set foot on it. (there was an attempt to take them but the Royal Navy had something to say about it)
Conversely another part of Norway, Bear Island, was the last German holdout of the war as the 2 Germans manning the weather station there didn't have an opportunity to surrender until 04/09/45, 4 months after VE day when some Norwegian whalers stopped off on the island, the Allies had no clue they were there.
"Oh thank god, please imprison us it's cold here".
For people wondering why you can bring back Quisling at the end of Get Rid of Quisling path: Historically even though Quisling helped the Germans to take over Norway, Germany didn't make him the leader of Norway (at first).
I can already see the disaster saves.😂😂😂
Disaster save: 1936 Norway start
11:25 That what we would actually need for hitler. Really hate the fact that they give those minors so weird complex and new mechanichs but totally don't do anything about the majors where it would actually make sense and would have some game impact.
yeah japan need a better focus tree. and also a rebalance for alt history germany.
yeah, hitler getting more and more paranoid and unreasonable would be interesting, maybe even leading to the assassination attempt(s)
@@juncheok8579you know what, I'm down for it. Would be fun.
But prior to this update, Germany had a tree. The monarchist one is good. There are other countries who need the love more.
@@christoperwallace6197 imo they should reworke germany historical path. Germany is the main playet im WW2 and the focustree end in 41 pretty pathetic in compared to the soviets, italy and even france, the uk and the usa
@@Schmiadoactually thst is good for historical. If they change it you will get sudeteland in 1939 probably
Seeing the focuses to claim Scotland and Vinland, I hope they make På Vikingtog a song with the new dlc.
When a DLC makes your country worse 💀
Paying 30$ to ruin a country
I mean, they showed us the historical path and irl Norway was just another speed bump for Germany
I mean no matter how good a focus tree is, AI still sucks. When I do a historical ww2 as Germany Italy still gets beaten up in Africa
Why would you play historical Norway?
@@mistergeorge420 You mean the 2nd longest invasion in the war kind of speed bump? Only the invasion of Russia took longer for obvious reasons. But who doesn't like speed bumps that require you to have 400k soldiers there at all times.
The developers are Swedish I think they did this on purpose
Amen to that.
Sweden decided to not join the war, and they'll never forgive Norway for that.
this doesnt actually ruin norway and is mostly pretty historical and the norwegians didnt know about that germany would even invade them so i like this focus tree
@@Neptunes_Bounty yall are misunderstanding the hate, even bittersteel said he disliked this. I am all for Norway being very weak because that is historically accurate, but so weak that it cannot feasibly do *anything at all* other than be a speed bump for the germans, or become an incredibly weak puppet, is just not fun at all. Would you want to play this? Would you play this historical democratic Norway? People don't like this because they want to play their own nation and _have basic fucking fun. I actually like many of these focuses and modifiers being there, but it should be easier to remove and instead of getting 3 fucking factories when the Germans are already invading_ maybe getting something like Sisu that ramps up as the months go by, getting more free divisions as time goes by as people take to arms, fortifying the mountains, the trails and the fjords as they hold out against the oncoming invasion would simply be more fun.
I guess there is a chance the unhistorical democratic path, _if there is one_ , may have what we want. It seems entirely plausible to me that if the government went a different path and prepared for war, that something like what i said would be possible.
Of course, i'm just trying to tell you my thoughts and hope you can see it more from my side of it, and whatever happens i just hope my country at least gets a somewhat fun role to play. Have a good day and thank you for listening to my ted talk. _I mean, wouldn't it be the perfect chance to add proper guerrilla warfare? We got that nature and mountains and fjords after all_ .
@@Brigtzen No offense but can I get a tldr
Seeing these decisions, does Paradox actually play Hoi4? Getting mils using PP after getting declared on? Seriously? Does Norway come with a PP printer so you can afford this? Does it also magically produce equipment over night in those factories?
I got a feeling this is gonna be one of those dlcs that adds one really good focus tree, but the rest are kinda meh
Well that's most paradox tress either the fascist path and/or the monarchist path slaps and the rest are shit.
Did he just call Jan Mayen a vic3 meme :inserted heisneberg falling meme:
Imagine that in a few years forward people will no longer believe that Victoria II has ever existed.
It is a vic3 meme tho
Spiff did some funny stuff with it. Such as building a billion factories on a rock, fitting 1million people on a rock, and the British feeling threatened by A ROCK.
@@catfacecat. its a vic 2 meme 💀, it even has flavor in vanilla vic2 💀
Who gave bitt3rsteel the pass at 1:35 💀
He’s belgian.
I’m sure there’s plenty of black people who’d lend a hand
The "Vestlandet" state is enough to infuriate anyone actually living there
Why?
@@bruhbruh-us6gl Because grouping together such a large part of Norway doesn't really make sense. People living in the area speak completely different dialects, and it is just weird grouping them all together. Mostly just a joke though.
They purposely ruined Norway because paradox is swedish.
Which means they're gonna ruin Denmark as well, lol.
@@InfiniteDeckhanddenmark will get two focuses one of them is to surrender immediately (tbf they did irl)
They’ll also get a national spirit called “Being danish” which gives -80% on every modifier ever
And they get an event to surrender 6 hours after Germany declares on them.
@@mangobrus and of course AI logic will dictate that AI Denmark almost never chooses to surrender even on non-historical.
@@robertjoppenhimer388hey they held on 6 hours
This Dev Diary
What I expect: Where are the torpedoes, Sodem?
What I get: Quisling, Quisling, QUISLING!
They gutted Norway to the ground. No national spirits with any benefits like Notraship which was the biggest shipping company in the world or anything. Stupid
I want an Achievement: Conquer Berlin only with Rikstanken and a Per Albin Bus
😂
Clearly, Jan Mayen is the most important addition.
YEEEESSSSS!!!! NORWAY!!!!!!!(Yes.. i am Norwegian) and yes The Kings No is incredible.
I like it in a way that the Quisling coup is nation ruining, historically German occupation of Norway was troublesome. What concerns me a little after reading this dev diary is that Norway and Denmark is gonna be the unwanted stepchild of this DLC. The Military and Industrial path for Norway is very generic by the looks of it. Seems to give some factories and research bonus, but little in terms of giving unique bonuses or flavor. Sure you can get rid of the horrible debuff, but no reward at the end, no buff to winter warfare or special forces buff? Like not saying that you should get buffs to make Norwegian space marines, but it would be nice with something unique there. Both Sweden and Finland has extensive industry/military by the looks of things while Norway looks like it can get bland or generic.
Ofc I'm biased here being Norwegian so gonna have to wait and see with the Denmark tree and later the alt history. Still cautiously optimistic since I personally enjoy a lot of the recent focus trees pdx made, but rn looks like more effort is being used on Finland and Sweden. No ski inf/mountain or winter focus for military branch of Norway, really???
Considering Norway lasted months and Denmark lasted 6 hours, it'll probably be a lot worse for Denmark.
Exile Norway might be surprisingly fun.
Might have to try that bad boy out
Also I'm looking forward to RPing as a Viking!
I'm so down for more exile paths.
Yeh the new Denmark focus tree will make them capitulate in less than 6 hours
Pov:it takes the germans more than 6 hours to move to another tile
@@catfacecat.
Maybe Denmark has focus that make Germans move faster!
😂
I'm surprised at that democratic path. I would have guessed that a successful democratic player would have been encouraged to retreat to a defensible line in the north and gradually acquire buffs and weapons until they would be able to retake the country by themselves. Instead it appears that they would to like the democratic player to go the "piggyback on the US and UK" approach like the Dutch.
It warms my norwegian heart to see the mental and physical decay of Quisling
This norwegian tree could be called No Arms Against Tyranny
Or just No Arms honestly cause Paradox amputated them
That title fits Sweden way more
Carlo? That's the same guy who designed Switzerland content, it's joever...
Im guessing that the alt history path is going to be so much better than the historical path and that the historical path will serve no other purpose than just getting absolutely steamrolled by the germans. If that is the case, i can't imagine just how horrible denmark's historical focus tree will be like since they lost a war in six whopping hours.
The kings no is a great movie you can see how the king escaped norway and the siking of the blucher. 10/10 whood recommend.
Norway was not doing so great during the 30s but not that bad. And their Costal forts were Norways strong point, so its sad that they debuffed it so much
One thing that would be interesting to add would be Quisling's time as defense minister under an earlier government.
Quisling, before selling out to the Germans, was actually defense minister for a short period of time and he was very much against the Norwegian dearmament policies of the time. He used the limited funds he had to actually do what he could to strengthen Norway’s defense, which became crucial later when the German’s invaded. So in an ironic twist, one of the reasons why Norway managed to hold out so long against Germany as we did (two months), was Quisling himself.
So I would very much like a feature where you can add him as defense minister and then use him to circumvent some of the armaments restrictions early in the game, but of course having him also gives boost to fascism. So it is a balancing act.
still i hope for absolute monarchy path for every country
We'll be waiting for a disaster save historical Norway on release, don't disappoint us. =)
I feel like paradox doesn't learn. The Spanish civil war system is hated for its complexity and how much it artificially slows the war down. Yet here they are again implementing similar features to Norway. I think they just need to take a page out of the book from the kaisereich devs.
SWEDEN 🇸🇪 needs a gigantic Focus Tree such as bringing back the glory of Charles XII and the Caroleans
Sweden wasn’t even formally in Ww2 bruh
I would have thought Norway would get some cool resistance bonuses or a focus when "La Resistance" was released. Then the new dev diary came out and sadly that seems to not be the case.
Norway, one of the least fascist nations in the time period, getting a ticking fascism modifier feels silly. Surely they should get a democratic one instead. Or just a malus to communism straight-up.
And now we wait to see what the Swedes do to Denmark XD
Fun fact: "quisling" is being used in the scandinavian languages and sometimes even in english as a synonim for colaborator.
read a short paper about quisling rhe other night so this is the perfect release
won't the new arms market system make arming Norway easier using your new civs to buy equipment?
As I'm mainly just playing Kaiserreich, I really don't mind nations being debuffed at the start. It means you have less options in military early on as you probably can't afford an air force or tank corp until a year or two into the actual war, but for minor nations like Norway this isn't that bad. It also allows you to continually improve your military as you survive the war. Basically emulates how you adapt to enemy tactics and new technologies.
Quisling was at first ignored by the germans, but they gave him leadership with Terboven after some time. That's why he can come back later
Lmao why does paradox completely ruin a country from just adding in a damn focus tree
Because paradox is Swedish
I know right? Paradox needs to cater to people from speed bump nations. Fuck balance, as soon as Germany even thinks of rearming the Rhineland, they should get dogpiled by a roided out democratic France, Poland, Denmark, and Austria. War over in 1936. Riveting gameplay.
@@Lady_Evelynor maybe cause Norway was a speed bump just good for thought
Because the historical path is meant to be the historical path not necessarily the optimal path
@@arvalb0 do you forget this is a game? That people play? Would you have fun playing this?
I think it makes perfect sense that the historical tree is crap, if you want to save Norway, obviously you don’t want things to go historically anyway.
A find it funny that road to 56 gives all the Nordic pretty decent focus trees
Honestly, this kinda makes sense. Germany already needs to get a successful naval invasion while at war against the Royal Navy just to LAND in Norway.
Player-controlled Scandinavia with the old tree was BUSTED.
As a Norwegian this pissed me off
The longest invasion in history if you don't count the German invasion of Russia (because Russia is so much bigger) yet this is how they're represented in game? Kinda silly, why would the invasion by Germany take so long if this represents the actual state of Norway. I would understand it for Denmark since that fell in 5 hours, but Norway actually forced like 400k germans to get in there.
EDIT: Ok some of the Quisling viking stuff is cool. But Norway sank Blucher with an old torbedo from a coastal fort... Why does have -50% to coastal forts?
Honestly there are some good elements to this. I think Norway is currently way too easy to save from AI Germany if you are playing a nation like the UK. Just dropping a couple divisions on the Baltic ports that you can't naval patrol after Denmark is gone shuts them out almost entirely in most games. I also think that historical accuracy is more valuable than game balance given that alt-history paths do exist and can be used if you play your game as a detached strategy sim. If all the paths are as catastrophically crippling as these ones, then I may concede it's a problem.
Irl, Brittain did want access to at least the north, but Norway held its' neutrality in the hopes of avoiding the war alltogether. (it worked in ww1, right?).
And Brittain DID send help, along with the french and free polish forces. Together, the combined force of four nations were able to retake Narvik in the north, (Narvik was the ultimate goal of Germanys' invasion). However, when some 'interesting' things started happening in Belgium and northern France, the allies pulled out to relocate forces. Why defend Narvik when Paris was threatened?
Finally Norway focuses!!
In my mind: A potentially strong fleet, cool marine bonuses, and the goal the claim the Old Norway Realm.
In paradox: Norway is weaker… why don’t we make it more weaker… Yeah that’s perfect… Aaaahh… and also pacifist. But the players are going to be at 1940 without doing nothing…. Yeaaah and also they are going to pay me for that.
The only cool thing it’s the tank model. I really like it.
Can't wait to see how these Swedes mess up with Denmark in the future😂
6 hours in the war, I don’t to think it’s about paradox being Swedish rather the historical aspect, like this, Norway being a speed bump
Isn’t Paradox Swedish, this may be intentional.
To be fair.
This is historical norway. In withs their country was not prepered for war.
Just as sweden. (becouse we sent most of our guns to finland during the singer war)
Im guessing if you go un historical norway will be mutch fun.
So BitterSteel, whenever you get to play this focus tree, the way i understood the development and defense mechanics is this:
Development 3 tiers:
Tier 1 -
Local Manpower +10% (It`s Alright)
Civ Construction +25% (Good)
Fort build -10% (meh, but bad)
__________________________________
Tier 2 -
Same as above +
Local Resources +10% (unless they gave norway more resources this is just meh)
Max entranchment -20% (Real bad)
Military fact construction -15% (real bad)
railway construction +15% (meh)
__________________________________
Tier 3-
Same as above+
Local Supplies -10% (bad)
Org Regain -10%(really bad)
Airbase construction +25%( ok)
Naval Docyard construction +15%(good)
__________________________________
Then, everytime you take a defnse decision you go down a tier in development. Tier 2 and 3 IMO are straight out bad, the best buff which is Civ Construction is tier 1, but then what i think might be funny is that you can basically buy divisions/mils with Political power/convoys. Assuming you can take the decisions more than once, you can develop a state to tier 1, stay there for the start of the game building civs, and when you need you can develop it to tier 2 and immediatly take the defense decision bringing it back to tier 1 and gaining a military factory. Or do the same but up to tier 3 gaining 2 divisions and a military factory when you go back down to tier 1. Is this good? absolutely not, but it`s A strat.
_______________________________
I honestly don't see a point to playing historical norway when playing monarchist will aslo probably put you in the allies and give you an actual country.
Also, cmon man, 35 days for 3 COASTAL forts on 1 province, Axis AI barely naval invades, you already get a massive bonus to defending invasions and you can always build them yourself in like 3 weeks either way. That focus is useless like most fort focus on the game. They really need to change the tree otherwise it just won`t be fun to play, i`d just like to remember that all baltic countries when NSB released had a focus that gave them 6 divs, 6! meanwhile norway gets focus that negatively impact your country on literally every branch, wth.
Historical AI Norway 🤝 IRL WW2 Norway
Speed bump for Germany.
@@Nordbon1523That wasn't even a Speed bumb that was just the Tempo Limit going from 120 Kmh to 119 Km/h for 6 Seconds
Norway survived 4 month longer than france
@@lumithelapphund6990 norway survived 2 months in total, it was longer than france yes, but not 4 months longer
@@lumithelapphund6990t wasn’t even Norway, most cities” were German after 24h, it was France an dum fighting and holding small cities 2 months
I hope they do some good plane models for Norway and Denmark, they were able to produce a few early war designs, and used a lot of other designs mid and late war, so there's more than nothing to go off of, maybe a Focus to travel to America to acquire the N3PB and other planes that they historically purchased, perhaps?
I guess Sweden is still salty about Norway leaving the Union.
Norway’s revamp just being a “Fuck Quisling” update is hilarious
I think the kings no would be a great opportunity. Governments in exile could be interesting, and I hope they implement something about the Norwegian saboteurs.
Why does it feel like Norway is being trashed just like Canada and the Raj was in TFV.
Really worried about what might happen to Denmark.
NEEEI don't get rid of Nynorsk!
I really hope those "claims" at the bottom actually give you a war goal or cores. Just claims is a garbage focus like the bottom of the A-H path in Hungary's tree
I like it, a historical Norway should stand no chance against Germany, even with player control it should be very difficult. To stand a chance you should have to take an alt-history path. Making a country more historically accurate is a good thing in my opinion.
I agree!
I expect to see super fun alternate trees with reborn wiking king with flagship Air-craft carrier!
😂
even though they lasted longer than france and poland
@@ItzLucky90 They lasted longer because there is a sea between them and Germany lol, if they shared a border Norway would have fallen much quicker. Their military was not on the level as Poland or France.
@@rocksjoshuadon’t forget after the invasion Norway’s military equipment and capital fell in less than 24 hours, it was the allies furnace and uk continuing fighting before they gave up and left
They make Norway worse? what a surprise from Swedish developers.
It was weak and it was poor during the time, don’t blame it on the developers
Made me laugh seeing Quisling going from prim and proper to that last defeated look xD Hopefully there's an event after the germans have capitulated where he's executed as happened irl
Norway isn't going to be fun, it's gonna be challenge hell
hopefully there will be an unhistorical democratic path that lets you actually have a chance. I mean, if you tick historical AI focuses off and sweden tries to invade you, like...what are you ever feasibly going to be able to do about it? *How are you ever supposed to survive in pvp?*
Idc if the start and focus are challenging, I WILL STORM BERLIN WITH A BUNCH OF RIKSTANKS!!!
Achievements for historical Norway are gonna be like "Viva la france" or "30 minutes of hell"
Quisling wanted to annex parts of the kola peninsula and petsamo
Why does ANTI COMMUNIST give facism? Not MINUS COMMUNISM support?
LIKE WHY
oh boy, greek focus tree 2.0
I think its good to make Norway weak. It prevents minor nations power creep; While it is annoying when playing Norway, it makes the game actually continue as normal and not grind to a halt because all the minor nations are able to stand up to Germany.
IMO, it is also more fun because of the challenge.
Enten blir jeg krigshelt eller så blir gje stilt for krigsrett. SKYT.🇧🇻💪🏻
At first i thought the norway tree was very cool especially the way i tend to play ally countries and buuld civ until the war hits but then i heard quisling and was like. Oh
just dont die
that simple
What are the chances that when this video comes out that I’m also in Norway for the summer
Well, it is about 0.005 percent chance.
Quisling to this day is still an official synonym for traitor
Honestly, every time they release a new dynamic focus tree that “makes a country weaker”, it just points to the larger issue: that default tree is absolutely busted and needs a rework.
It seems like paradox made it pretty hard to hold against the Germans for three months. Like in ww2 Norway hels longer than France when they were invaded, however it seems like that will be quite hard with the dlc
I mean, they lost there capital the first day. And most of the country got occupied not long after. Most of the holding out was in the north.
Norway did kinda capitulated after 24h, they had no equipment no military and no leading cities left, it was 2 months before the allies capitulated whom had been holding smaller cities and was the main fighting force l
@@arvalb0 yes, Norway did capitulate just days after the allied forces retreated, but my point was kind of that the focus didn’t really consider the fighting in the north and merely has you go into exile right after you’re invaded
boys, historical Norway might be ass in this DLC, but we have a Norwegian Bob Semple and that will surely beat those Germans back into the sea!
Could be more worse then the spanish civil war if norway has limited amount of mf then im ded because how am i supposed to survive the german if i don't have the equipment
I don't think Historical AI Norway should be able to hold out much, but I don't think it needed to be shot in the knee either.
Literally Swedish propaganda. Inb4 the Swedish focus tree has them be an absolute power house with free annexations, free faction, free manpower and factories
During the war Sweden became the Europe’s power house, strongest civilian economy and historically was the nordic empire, dont call it propaganda when it was real
@@arvalb0 Lol
The explanation for how they made the Rikstanken made me have a very confused look like... It sounded (and looked when the picture was shown) like a bad idea, and I'd be surprised if it could even fire without breaking down
Jan Mayen? I am sold.
Then watch Denmark be extremely overpowered somehow.
I am starting to think about their memes. They did with spiffing brit with this Island which he made into a power house better than Russia.
And now think bittersteel. Imagine dlc for belgium. They Will probably add something that mention you in some way or another and because of your nick name, it can be fairly easy to put it somewhere.
bear has landed
My favourite nation to play
But this is historically accurate to Norway at the time
If the historical path made it possible/likely for Norway to resist the invasion it wouldn't be historical anymore. (is my take at least) As a Norwegian i'm just glad i'm getting nordic focus trees at all :)