I’ve been out of it for almost 4 years, and I can see all of this clearly in hindsight. There is no getting stronger, understanding or working on yourself to make it better. It actually gets worse because the more you understand and change, the less they can tolerate it and the abuse gets ramped up. It is absolutely true that these relationships have an expiration date. It might take a year or decades, but it comes to an end eventually. They can be so destructive and even quite dangerous, so you have to protect yourself.
Is it ok to protect myself? How? Attorneys tell me self-help is illegal, and the sheriffs won't come out unless the abusing squatters are reporting on me. If I leave my house, I'm afraid they'll take over completely. I've resorted to locking rooms to keep them out, but I'm told that is illegal. It's coming down to anything I do to protect myself is either illegal or will cost me more money than I have to get them out.
In the movie Blade, Blade says, “Some muthaf***as are always trying to ice-skate uphill”! That’s what it’s like trying to make a relationship work with a NARC!
I excepted it ....Hard has it was ..I'm worth so much more ❤ My new saying is " these people can sell snow to Eskimos 😂"..The reality is NO CONTACT...keep going forward X
I listened to this presentation 3 times to really see the honesty in my condition. I will never be able to inspire any change in my wife!!! It is not so much my ego as it is the idea that love and marriage is a "gift" and a "privilege". I have sacrificed so much in trying to understand the motives or logic behind this war. I must concede, I married a deeply disturbed character. You are such a powerful teacher Little Shaman and i have so much to still learn. Thank-you 🙏🏼🔥💪🏾 🌱
Toxic hope was the prison in which I was held captive and nearly died in. There’s a huuuuuuuuge difference between being realistically optimistic and in detrimental denial. Thanks for the reminder, L.S.
The simple fact that you feel a thousand times better when they're not in your life is worth so much more than anything we could hope for in those relationships. Peace has no price.
Even if they are diagnosed narcissist and trying to change, the change is so minimal that it’s not worth it. My ex was in therapy for 5 years, knew he was the problem and was actively trying to change. He’d be good for a bit, but he couldn’t help himself, the war would start all over again
Thanks! I listen to your podcast every day. I had no idea who I was dealing with before and after my mom's passing. My brother is a VERY covert narcissist. And I have to cohabitate with him. VERY strange personality and you have the answers that finally allow me to understand the person I'm really dealing with.
If someone is healed enough, they wouldn't even try making a relationship work with a toxic person. They probably wouldn't even run into these types of people
Matthew 10:34-39 NKJV “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. For I have come to ‘set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’ He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.
Wow, LS, what a gift you have! The hearts and minds you are involved in helping understand this insidious, abusive disorder, has to be God sent and your purpose in life. For me, my ego wouldn't surrender through 4 decades of marriage. By the Grace of God, it finally did. What I would like others to know is once you remove yourself, as you see yourself come back slowly, your ego begins to focus on how strong you actually were and are, and the light begins to emerge. It's not easy, but if you keep on the path, you will eventually realize that every day you were enmeshed with this personality type, was so much harder and more painful. I'm in my 60's and have never felt at peace until now. Choose you. Please, choose you. God Bless Everyone.
I fully get all the information in this video. I am living it. Been married for 39 years. I know I need to get away from him so that I can finally heal and yes, take the medicine to want to get better. There are so many issues, financial, that need to be dealt with first. Please pray for me that this gets cleared up so I can finally be who God made me to be. God bless
I was living in Toxic Hope for years and finally was brutally honest with myself that the the narcissist & my relationship would never change. It would always be the same cycle with him. Almost one year since the divorce and going no contact and blocking him. Life is so much better now. Living in turmoil with a narcissistic person is not living, it's existing.
Anthropomorphism is sadly what healthy folk do with narcissists. We attribute human characteristics to the narcissistic object. Since narcissists lack object constancy, which pertains to their victim, then they are an object to me. I'm simply using psychiatric jargon.💥🎤
❤I remember a conscious process of coming to the crossroads where so many acts of abuse had happened that it was no longer possible to accept that this was a normal relationship - it *wasn't* and when I asked myself what wiuld happened if I stayed in 5 or 10 years and it was evident that I'd be bankrupt or dead. No! There was no relationship! There was only me trying. There was never going to be any peace or understanding because as arguments, ruined holidays, ruined plans, continued yelling, and a myriad of continued excuses kept happening. In fact, the periods of "peace" between abusive events became smaller and smaller to where abuse was commonplace and periods of peace were a few and far between. And that's the point. Narcissists don't want peace. They want drama. They need drama. Peace doesn't do anything for them except bores and upsets them. That is why there is never going to be a normal relationship with a narcissist. They don't feel alive and as there's drama but it can never be enough for them and they are always going to have that nagging edge of self-doubt and self-criticism to goad them in to outrageously bad behavior toward others. Sometimes the process of figuring this out is not easy because it starts out so slowly. A fight here, a little inconsiderate comment there, etc. However, this is more than just somebody having a bad day. It's a nightmare unfolding. People stay initially because they believe it's just some weird coincidence of continued isolated events. The blame, the apologies, the excuses, there comes a point in time where so much has happened that it is impossible to believe that these abusive acts are *not* unrelated. Bad things keep happening and they don't stop. The person that said they loved you doesn't. And if you're like many people you've put your life together maybe even gotten married. And goodness forbid, some of us have combined our finances and purchased vehicles and homes with these abuse of people before we figure out the lie. So, some choose denial. Whether conscious or not, they figure it is easier to stay in the relationship and wait for things to get better than to end it and to deal with all of the fallout all of the separating of finances, assets, friends, possessions. They only dig themselves in deeper and deeper to where it is almost impossible to leave anymore. Narcissists of course plan all of this! They very sneakily and early on do their best to entwine themselvesInto their victims pocket books titles to property debts taken out together and more. The day I ended it with the narcissist was after a fight where he was punishing me for not putting him on the title to my home that I owned free and clear prior to him even entering the relationship. He didn't pay rent and ran up a lot of my bills. After repeated ruined holidays public embarrassments and being called a piece of s#it Numerous times when I am not that sort of a person I had to end it. He was going to try to take everything I had and was walking all over me. There was no denying him yelling breaking objects and making excuses about how he had high blood pressure and that caused him to get angry, etc. No! And the truth is it doesn't matter how much you spend on the wedding or whatever you're never going to get that money back and you need to cut your losses and move on while you still have your health in your life to do it. , it's that bad, and yes many have died due to bad health after years of narcissistic abuse and yes some have been murdered. I thank God everyday I never put him on the title to anything and I was never going to put him on the title of my house. We never made any purchases together though I did purchase a vehicle that I chose to take back to the dealership, and take a loss. He had encouraged me to purchase that vehicle and it was expensive and the payment caused me to have to beg him every month to contribute to the bills so he was using that vehicle to hold over my head as financial leverage to keep me in the relationship. The beautifull vehicleWent back to the dealership and I bought a very old used car that worked. In a sense, it was my vehicle to freedom. I got rid of the narcissist. It wasn't easy and yes it was like admitting defeat. It was embarrassing because we had only been married a few months. Yes, I looked unstable. None of that mattered compared to the open grave of my future I was staring into. It took a lot of courage that day to decide that I could not overlook everything that was happening around me. This was abuse, and I had to get out. More than that, I had to figure out why it was that I was carried into that relationship. So, I traded in that relationship for a voyage of self-discovery. Yes it was terrifying at times and very heartbreaking 2 and what I thought was a fairy tale in the beginning of the relationship. It wasn't just me that he had fooled. Everybody was so happy for me and thrilled that I had found somebody so nice. Bother. He wasn't he had fooled the world and he is going to continue fooling people. The truth is it doesn't matter how much we had built together or not built together how much people thought this or thatThe truth is it doesn't matter how much we had built together or not built together how much people thought this or that, in the end it was an abuse of relationship and it had to stop. I was never going to have 1 day of peace with this person. All of the worry about what people would think etc. that's all ego. It was this channel that helped me break free. I'm so glad that I listened although it was very hard to accept reality. If you are at that crossroads today you too can listen to the video and acceptThat you are in an abusive relationship, and get free. If you have to turn in your vehicle and drive a piece of crap for a while, then do it. Don't worry about what others are thinking. Don't worry if you look unstable. If you have children, if you are married or otherwise legally connected to the narcissist, then consult with an attorney. But do get free. Simply put the fat stuff keeps happening in your relationship and you find yourself crying Simply put, if bad stuff keeps happening in your relationship and you find yourself crying due to something that the other person did you are in a relationship that is abusive and you need to leave. Get out first. Get away from the person. And don't waste time trying to figure out why things happened the way they did. Work on yourself and figure out why you got sucked into the relationship that will tell you everything. It is a trick trying to figure out why the other person does what they do. At the end of the day it really doesn't matter. What matters is what you are going to do. You will only get answers and closure from yourself and never the other person. That abusive person will keep you on a string and will keep you wondering and we'll dangle unforetold amounts of carrots in front of your nose. And they will name smear you, they will black mail you, they will do whatever they can to keep you involved. None of that matters. And if you have so-called friends that you are worried about what they will think when he runs to tell lies to them - then those *aren't* friends. True friends are people he will never have to worry what they think. They will have your back and if they don't then don't worry about it. Screen out all of the what-ifs and just get free. No, the other person's never going to change and it's only going to get worse. That's your answer. Leave. Sorry for all the typos. Will try to come back later and fix.
‘Defeat’, for me, was the manifestation of a tangible & identifiable ‘something’. A solid reality I could wrangle & come to grips with. After 16 years in a conflicted, downward spiral of ever increasing despair, anxiousness, anguish & confusion, finally I was able to comprehend the invisible assailant robbing me of my life. I found honour in my defeat & self respect. I hadn’t failed because I couldn’t overcome & love to health an insidious, malicious savage. I wasn’t a loser because a mentally disturbed meat suit had discarded me, I had triumphed over something subhuman. It was never a level playing field. I’m proud I fought as hard & as long as I did. I consider myself a blooded warrior & truly appreciate & value my qualities more than ever before. I am a human being & he & his kind are not. That is victory enough for me. Thank you for you & for sharing so generously your wisdom, insight & knowledge 🍄
I held hope for 1 and a half years in the relationship, but you reach a breaking point after being treated with disrespect for so long that all that hope finally goes out the window
The hardest lesson I have had to learn in life is this, and it came at a hefty price for sure. However, understanding and allowing it as a part of your self worth is priceless.
I am a 50 year old woman who has a narcissistic mother and brother. We have had recurring big fights, especially me and my mother. After every fight (which according to her is always my fault) I have had a false expectation and hope that now, NOW she/they has thought through their behavior and now NOW everything will be fine again. It works for a while but then it starts again. I have thought many times that I should end my toxic relationship with my mother, but she is 82 years old and I know that she would not be able to cope (psychologically) with never having any contact with me again.....
Yeah, we/I had to come to the realization that ‘we’ do not have a relationship and the narc won’t/can’t change…they are deeply flawed individuals who can only hurt others and themselves…walk away and consider this a bad chapter in your life and wish them well if you can…excellent presentation LS!
I held on for 4 years. I wanted my husband to care, to want to be a loving, supportive husband and father. He didn't. He put his time and energy elsewhere. I finally gave up come year 5, and now we just live as roommates because our children are still little and need the financial support of a dual income.
Phases of an initial relationship with a narcissist: Infatuation Commitment Confusion Insanity Hopelessness Realization Stupification/ astonishment "Oh HELL no" phase Escape Recovery / healing Did i leave anything out?
I totally agree. Been there and unfortunately still in this CRAZY TOXIC marriage. There are financial issues that need to be dealt with that I of course am tyed into, which he caused, without my knowing. Narcissist trait. Please pray for me that this financial issue gets dealt with. God bless
Thank you for your help L.S. I have had abusers use my hope to manipulate me along with triangulation and lies. It never got better, and would have gotten worse.
You sound like you've "been there, done that". I think you are the best at explaining what it going on with these lizard people. If I had this knowledge years ago my life would have been better. My self esteem was destroyed by my mother and I ended up just working all the time and avoiding life and people.
I do believe you, that narcissists will do increasing harm no matter what, yet I do pray to survive the end of their lies and the revealing of the abyss of their intentions. When I was lowest, I was too weak and wounded to move or speak much. Immobilized by fear I realized I cannot live in a world without narcissists. I was so confused, and needed to learn discerning and trust like a child... I decided to take a lot of family abuse since I am healing instead of no contact, because I hoped to grow and heal the relationships with as many in the family as I possibly can love. It revealed a lot of covert family dynamics when I started to change, and when my body released trapped trauma. While I am not assured by the family bonds, I myself got quite balanced and developed some skills to listen and respond firm even in absurd gaslighting conversations. The narcs got much more agitated, and the fear in the family ramped up. I feel all are suffering more since I am healing than before... Sometimes that pleases me, sometimes I feel guilty for healing, or becoming arrogant, a narc myself. Sometimes I want to break all bridges, and I wonder whether it is also my Ego lying to me, again, telling a story of training discernment, balance, and a tough skin, just to keep me on a toxic diet?
The Little Shaman roots out every scrap of hope from your brain, heart and nearly dead cold hand. Exactly what is needed to move on and heal. Otherwise one just keeps going in the loop of " nice narc\ bad narc" back and forth, forever. Thanks, Little Shaman!
I got through a family narcissistic relationship. I came out the other side. With a lot of help from you, Little Shaman. Yesterday, 2 relatives asked me about what happened. To tell the story was sad. I don't like to say to say anything bad about anyone, but I told the truth. I wasn't going to protect the narc and flying monkeys. Maybe people find out about the narcissist in the end.
I left after nearly 6yrs. This month would’ve made 6yrs. I left on March 1. Got my own studio apartment and he didn’t think I ever would’ve left. Thanks to my EMDR psychologist and my DV case manager, I was able to leave for good. I’m going better at my career now and feeling peace at my new homes
As much as I loved and hoped for my mother, once I began learning about narcissism and could see exactly what LS is describing here, early on, it was like rudimentary math. She wasn’t going to change, was in a path to worsening and was being staunchly enabled, by my sister. The only thing left, was the subtraction of myself, so I did that. I’ve always said, “Go do something you can win at.” So, I did. I also see this again, in probate. I am stuck trying to produce items my sister says she wants, of our mother’s, but I can’t provide them - because she has them and is otherwise not participating. Why? Because, as a malignant narcissist, she enjoys the dynamic of keeping the case in spin and keeping a war going. The judge will need to find a solution, unless the judge would like to continue being in this war also. This is also how I know how malignant a narcissist my sister is. She is out of her mind with anger, for having to have lifted a finger, during the few years I was absent (no contact), in contrast to the decades she was absent. Although I don’t know her well, due to her absence, it was one of the things I picked up on, about her, long before narcissism became a known topic in my life. She is defined as being someone who is a tenacious parasite, who has felt she should get everything, for nothing. The only light, at the end of this tunnel, is that for the trajectory she has (still in mom pleasing mode), she will be absolutely flooded with paperwork she wants, which will look much like a Chihuahua with a dinosaur bone. That’ll keep her busy!
"The narcissist will sometimes admit that they have a problem or are wrong" This is a tricky one because there's always some sort of tricky wording or manipulative language used whenever they apologize or when they admit they are difficult, and if you really pay attention, you'll never actually hear any indication that they think they should STOP being this way. In other words, they might acknowledge that they are judgmental, arrogant, stubborn, narrowminded, entitled, quick to get angry over little things, etc. but they'll always phrase it in a way that makes them seem like they are proud of it or like they think these qualities are endearing. Whenever they treat someone badly, play games with them, cut them down, undermine people's happiness or success, etc. they will say all kinds of things to excuse their behavior. "I just have high standards", LAUGHINGLY saying "I'm such a b****/a******", "I'm just annoyed. I just need to learn to deal with you better, I guess". "People don't like that I'm brutally honest and tell it like it is." They seem to be almost proud of these destructive tendencies because they think it proves that they are in a position of power/superiority and that it's their God-given right to break people down when they aren't worthy. Basically, in every regard, the narcissist will seem to acknowledge that they are "different" in these ways. They will acknowledge that no one else is as harsh, rude, judgmental and cruel as they are, but they never indicate that they have the desire to change....which is the actual important part! They just act like all of these things come with the territory of being perfect and superior.
My narc ex admitted reacting badly under certain circumstances but 1 it was my fault setting him off andc2 it was my fault his bad reaction got worse because I excallated it by holding him to account or wanting my feelings to he heard. He said I should walk away and leave him to cool off as I should understand how he is. I understood what he was and left him alone for good.
My ex narc used war terminology when I tried to push back on his poor behaviour. Ie why do I try so hard to start a war with him. If I want war I will have it. He's my prisoner. He's in destructive mode. Why do I try so hard to make him hate me, I'm not his enemy. This is their play book. They are at war with themselves and the world. They are severely disordered. You can't save them. Accept this, grieve, move on and find your peace.
Thank you 🙏. Reality is a very, very hard thing to see, hear, smell, taste and swallow. Confusion requires infusion to break free from the illusion! It is a battle of the soul; armor up! Stay alert! Stay alive! Stay strong! Peace ✌️
So many great nuggets here. And the trenches analogy is just so damn evocative. - It’s been years of no contact for me, and I still find myself in toxic hope that things will turn around. I call it “Mom Hope.” I believe it’s as strong as the love you have for your child. So, in that sense, I know it will never go away completely.
Thank you for this today, I so needed it. My entire family can not or will not accept a thing. They want everything to just be the way they need it to be and are clueless about how to fix or that things need to be different. They just want me to support them by coming back and doing what they need. No recognition of why I am holding out and sticking to my truth. This has been the most painful experience I have allowed myself to endure. My normal would be to just let it go and give in so the family is okay, but I just can’t do anymore. I have a sibling with cancer and he needs support now and yet I am being pulled back in to crazy town if I enter back. I seriously tried, but it is more than I can take. This is so difficult. I don’t want to be hurtful but I just can’t allow myself to suffer anymore at their hands. I’m hurting enough. So very difficult for sure. Thank you for the reminder today.
In the awesome movie “When Harry Met Sally” this is exactly why Marie clung to that married man despite acknowledging to Sally “you’re right, I know you’re right.. he’s never going to leave her”.
My trench is my home, and we are in a battle for control over who rules the house. Having also entrenched themselves in my home, they changed the lock on the guest room and refused to give me a key. They think I want to go thru their stuff. They've been going thru my stuff, so I locked the garage to make that harder for them. They threatened to call the sheriff to make me let them in the garage. The pastor tells me to give it up and let them take over. Is that what I'm supposed to do? My fear is they will take my house and I'll lose it. They'll swap lives with me. They'll take my wealth (they think I'm rich, but I'm supporting them with my social security and my parents' stipend), and I'll end up homeless as they were when I took them in. Is this what I have to accept?
The good people are probably the ones I've been afraid of all my life that they were too good for me. I never dared to approach them, and they never approached me.
Thank you, I was stuck in toxic hope for more than 55 years ( raises by a narcissistic mother and married with a covert Narc fir 25 years). I did so much inner work and I still feel like under a spell/ traumabonded. How can I say that I am not a narcissist too?
I know what you mean! In this video though we are referring to Ego in the context of sense of self. The ego is the part of every human being that speaks as "I."
Many people seem to get continually confused between mental health/mental illness and good/ evil. There are both good and evil mentally ill people, and there are both good and evil mentally healthy people. Mentality is a different spectrum from morality. Morality comes from the heart. The word mind represents a metaphysical aspect of the physical brain organ. There needs to be a word to represent the metaphysical aspect of the heart. Our heart and our feelings are our center, not our brain and our thoughts. Many people seek refuge from the pain the heart experiences by retreating into their minds and brains. There is a difference between the word morality and the word ethics. Morality is a matter of one's own heart. Ethics is a matter of the consensus of right and wrong established by societal groups. Ethics is logic-based and of the mind. Morality is emotion based and is of the heart. Morality is more accurate than ethics because our hearts are our centers. Narcissistic people have disconnected themselves from their own hearts.
Another comment, when they contact you and you end up explaining or trying to explain, it’s just hopeless even if they can be nice, they are just so unaware. This can’t all be narcissism, can it? Help! Endless explanations to people living on their own world accepting everything because they believe in god or Christ, but yet they can’t see anything else. Am I wrong? This is how we get pulled back into the train wreck. 🙏🏼 Thank you again. We try and reflect and end up going back to the circus.
So how come they change for the next supply. Did you teach them enough in the relationship? Could they have learned how to behave now since they are getting older and need to keep up with the facade because, now, since they left someone so great, all eyes will be on them?
If someone is pathologically narcissistic, they didn't change for the new supply. They are simply doing what they always do in the beginning of a relationship.
@@thelittleshamanhealingi think it’s a bit more complicated than that. There is someone for everyone, even for a narcissist. I imagine someone sociopathic and Machiavellian could make a relationship work with a narcissist as they would have the cunning and the patience to out manipulate the narcissist
I take in every precious word you say. I have stopped the war. There is a saying "You either bend to the truth of reality or live a lie". I am free.
"Get out of the trenches. There are better ways to live." That should be on a t-shirt.
👍👍
they cannot truly love. and they hide it and blame the other person.
I’ve been out of it for almost 4 years, and I can see all of this clearly in hindsight. There is no getting stronger, understanding or working on yourself to make it better. It actually gets worse because the more you understand and change, the less they can tolerate it and the abuse gets ramped up. It is absolutely true that these relationships have an expiration date. It might take a year or decades, but it comes to an end eventually. They can be so destructive and even quite dangerous, so you have to protect yourself.
Is it ok to protect myself? How? Attorneys tell me self-help is illegal, and the sheriffs won't come out unless the abusing squatters are reporting on me. If I leave my house, I'm afraid they'll take over completely. I've resorted to locking rooms to keep them out, but I'm told that is illegal. It's coming down to anything I do to protect myself is either illegal or will cost me more money than I have to get them out.
In the movie Blade, Blade says, “Some muthaf***as are always trying to ice-skate uphill”! That’s what it’s like trying to make a relationship work with a NARC!
If you're in quicksand, I'll try and pull you out, but if you try to pull me in...I must let go: self preservation.
BAM 💥
Great analogy
I excepted it ....Hard has it was ..I'm worth so much more ❤
My new saying is " these people can sell snow to Eskimos 😂"..The reality is NO CONTACT...keep going forward X
I listened to this presentation 3 times to really see the honesty in my condition. I will never be able to inspire any change in my wife!!! It is not so much my ego as it is the idea that love and marriage is a "gift" and a "privilege". I have sacrificed so much in trying to understand the motives or logic behind this war. I must concede, I married a deeply disturbed character.
You are such a powerful teacher Little Shaman and i have so much to still learn. Thank-you
🙏🏼🔥💪🏾 🌱
Sorry to hear that..my x was the same
My ex was too.
Divorced
Broke
Recovering....
Deeply disturbed...takeout artist probably B4 the marriage..bait and switch. I know it well..gluck in the future
Toxic hope was the prison in which I was held captive and nearly died in. There’s a huuuuuuuuge difference between being realistically optimistic and in detrimental denial. Thanks for the reminder, L.S.
🏆🏆💪🏾
The simple fact that you feel a thousand times better when they're not in your life is worth so much more than anything we could hope for in those relationships. Peace has no price.
definitely❤❤❤
Even if they are diagnosed narcissist and trying to change, the change is so minimal that it’s not worth it.
My ex was in therapy for 5 years, knew he was the problem and was actively trying to change.
He’d be good for a bit, but he couldn’t help himself, the war would start all over again
Many just don't seem to actually have the capability. They just really don't.
Thanks! I listen to your podcast every day. I had no idea who I was dealing with before and after my mom's passing. My brother is a VERY covert narcissist. And I have to cohabitate with him. VERY strange personality and you have the answers that finally allow me to understand the person I'm really dealing with.
If someone is healed enough, they wouldn't even try making a relationship work with a toxic person. They probably wouldn't even run into these types of people
Matthew 10:34-39 NKJV
“Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. For I have come to ‘set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’ He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.
Wow, LS, what a gift you have! The hearts and minds you are involved in helping understand this insidious, abusive disorder, has to be God sent and your purpose in life. For me, my ego wouldn't surrender through 4 decades of marriage. By the Grace of God, it finally did. What I would like others to know is once you remove yourself, as you see yourself come back slowly, your ego begins to focus on how strong you actually were and are, and the light begins to emerge. It's not easy, but if you keep on the path, you will eventually realize that every day you were enmeshed with this personality type, was so much harder and more painful. I'm in my 60's and have never felt at peace until now. Choose you. Please, choose you. God Bless Everyone.
Back at you! 😘
Well said. This resonates. Authenticating is painful but worth it.
This is SO true, but very sad. It's an extremely bitter pill to swallow. But the sooner you take the medicine, the faster you will get better.
I fully get all the information in this video. I am living it. Been married for 39 years. I know I need to get away from him so that I can finally heal and yes, take the medicine to want to get better. There are so many issues, financial, that need to be dealt with first. Please pray for me that this gets cleared up so I can finally be who God made me to be. God bless
I was living in Toxic Hope for years and finally was brutally honest with myself that the the narcissist & my relationship would never change. It would always be the same cycle with him. Almost one year since the divorce and going no contact and blocking him. Life is so much better now. Living in turmoil with a narcissistic person is not living, it's existing.
Anthropomorphism is sadly what healthy folk do with narcissists. We attribute human characteristics to the narcissistic object. Since narcissists lack object constancy, which pertains to their victim, then they are an object to me. I'm simply using psychiatric jargon.💥🎤
❤I remember a conscious process of coming to the crossroads where so many acts of abuse had happened that it was no longer possible to accept that this was a normal relationship - it *wasn't* and when I asked myself what wiuld happened if I stayed in 5 or 10 years and it was evident that I'd be bankrupt or dead. No! There was no relationship! There was only me trying. There was never going to be any peace or understanding because as arguments, ruined holidays, ruined plans, continued yelling, and a myriad of continued excuses kept happening. In fact, the periods of "peace" between abusive events became smaller and smaller to where abuse was commonplace and periods of peace were a few and far between. And that's the point. Narcissists don't want peace. They want drama. They need drama. Peace doesn't do anything for them except bores and upsets them. That is why there is never going to be a normal relationship with a narcissist. They don't feel alive and as there's drama but it can never be enough for them and they are always going to have that nagging edge of self-doubt and self-criticism to goad them in to outrageously bad behavior toward others. Sometimes the process of figuring this out is not easy because it starts out so slowly. A fight here, a little inconsiderate comment there, etc. However, this is more than just somebody having a bad day. It's a nightmare unfolding. People stay initially because they believe it's just some weird coincidence of continued isolated events. The blame, the apologies, the excuses, there comes a point in time where so much has happened that it is impossible to believe that these abusive acts are *not* unrelated. Bad things keep happening and they don't stop. The person that said they loved you doesn't. And if you're like many people you've put your life together maybe even gotten married. And goodness forbid, some of us have combined our finances and purchased vehicles and homes with these abuse of people before we figure out the lie. So, some choose denial. Whether conscious or not, they figure it is easier to stay in the relationship and wait for things to get better than to end it and to deal with all of the fallout all of the separating of finances, assets, friends, possessions. They only dig themselves in deeper and deeper to where it is almost impossible to leave anymore. Narcissists of course plan all of this! They very sneakily and early on do their best to entwine themselvesInto their victims pocket books titles to property debts taken out together and more. The day I ended it with the narcissist was after a fight where he was punishing me for not putting him on the title to my home that I owned free and clear prior to him even entering the relationship. He didn't pay rent and ran up a lot of my bills. After repeated ruined holidays public embarrassments and being called a piece of s#it Numerous times when I am not that sort of a person I had to end it. He was going to try to take everything I had and was walking all over me. There was no denying him yelling breaking objects and making excuses about how he had high blood pressure and that caused him to get angry, etc. No! And the truth is it doesn't matter how much you spend on the wedding or whatever you're never going to get that money back and you need to cut your losses and move on while you still have your health in your life to do it. , it's that bad, and yes many have died due to bad health after years of narcissistic abuse and yes some have been murdered. I thank God everyday I never put him on the title to anything and I was never going to put him on the title of my house. We never made any purchases together though I did purchase a vehicle that I chose to take back to the dealership, and take a loss. He had encouraged me to purchase that vehicle and it was expensive and the payment caused me to have to beg him every month to contribute to the bills so he was using that vehicle to hold over my head as financial leverage to keep me in the relationship. The beautifull vehicleWent back to the dealership and I bought a very old used car that worked. In a sense, it was my vehicle to freedom. I got rid of the narcissist. It wasn't easy and yes it was like admitting defeat. It was embarrassing because we had only been married a few months. Yes, I looked unstable. None of that mattered compared to the open grave of my future I was staring into. It took a lot of courage that day to decide that I could not overlook everything that was happening around me. This was abuse, and I had to get out. More than that, I had to figure out why it was that I was carried into that relationship. So, I traded in that relationship for a voyage of self-discovery. Yes it was terrifying at times and very heartbreaking 2 and what I thought was a fairy tale in the beginning of the relationship. It wasn't just me that he had fooled. Everybody was so happy for me and thrilled that I had found somebody so nice. Bother. He wasn't he had fooled the world and he is going to continue fooling people. The truth is it doesn't matter how much we had built together or not built together how much people thought this or thatThe truth is it doesn't matter how much we had built together or not built together how much people thought this or that, in the end it was an abuse of relationship and it had to stop. I was never going to have 1 day of peace with this person. All of the worry about what people would think etc. that's all ego. It was this channel that helped me break free. I'm so glad that I listened although it was very hard to accept reality. If you are at that crossroads today you too can listen to the video and acceptThat you are in an abusive relationship, and get free. If you have to turn in your vehicle and drive a piece of crap for a while, then do it. Don't worry about what others are thinking. Don't worry if you look unstable. If you have children, if you are married or otherwise legally connected to the narcissist, then consult with an attorney. But do get free. Simply put the fat stuff keeps happening in your relationship and you find yourself crying Simply put, if bad stuff keeps happening in your relationship and you find yourself crying due to something that the other person did you are in a relationship that is abusive and you need to leave. Get out first. Get away from the person. And don't waste time trying to figure out why things happened the way they did. Work on yourself and figure out why you got sucked into the relationship that will tell you everything. It is a trick trying to figure out why the other person does what they do. At the end of the day it really doesn't matter. What matters is what you are going to do. You will only get answers and closure from yourself and never the other person. That abusive person will keep you on a string and will keep you wondering and we'll dangle unforetold amounts of carrots in front of your nose. And they will name smear you, they will black mail you, they will do whatever they can to keep you involved. None of that matters. And if you have so-called friends that you are worried about what they will think when he runs to tell lies to them - then those *aren't* friends. True friends are people he will never have to worry what they think. They will have your back and if they don't then don't worry about it. Screen out all of the what-ifs and just get free. No, the other person's never going to change and it's only going to get worse. That's your answer. Leave.
Sorry for all the typos. Will try to come back later and fix.
You are brilliant
And strong
Bravo!
🙋😘💜🤗
‘Defeat’, for me, was the manifestation of a tangible & identifiable ‘something’. A solid reality I could wrangle & come to grips with. After 16 years in a conflicted, downward spiral of ever increasing despair, anxiousness, anguish & confusion, finally I was able to comprehend the invisible assailant robbing me of my life. I found honour in my defeat & self respect. I hadn’t failed because I couldn’t overcome & love to health an insidious, malicious savage. I wasn’t a loser because a mentally disturbed meat suit had discarded me, I had triumphed over something subhuman. It was never a level playing field. I’m proud I fought as hard & as long as I did. I consider myself a blooded warrior & truly appreciate & value my qualities more than ever before. I am a human being & he & his kind are not. That is victory enough for me.
Thank you for you & for sharing so generously your wisdom, insight & knowledge 🍄
What a journey!
Welcome to the new "present"
Wiser
And stronger
👍👏👍
I held hope for 1 and a half years in the relationship, but you reach a breaking point after being treated with disrespect for so long that all that hope finally goes out the window
My father at age 97 was STILL THE NARCISSIST GAS LIGHTING A HOLE. RIP.
The hardest lesson I have had to learn in life is this, and it came at a hefty price for sure. However, understanding and allowing it as a part of your self worth is priceless.
Healing is also great for self worth 💗
"There are better ways to live." Mic Drop.
Amen. These are harsh truths for those of us raised in narcissistic and dysfunctional families. There really are better ways to live.
👍👏👍
I am a 50 year old woman who has a narcissistic mother and brother. We have had recurring big fights, especially me and my mother. After every fight (which according to her is always my fault) I have had a false expectation and hope that now, NOW she/they has thought through their behavior and now NOW everything will be fine again. It works for a while but then it starts again. I have thought many times that I should end my toxic relationship with my mother, but she is 82 years old and I know that she would not be able to cope (psychologically) with never having any contact with me again.....
Oh well. Sad for her, better for you.
Yeah, we/I had to come to the realization that ‘we’ do not have a relationship and the narc won’t/can’t change…they are deeply flawed individuals who can only hurt others and themselves…walk away and consider this a bad chapter in your life and wish them well if you can…excellent presentation LS!
12. Hope deferred maketh the heart sick:but when the desire cometh,it is a tree of life. Proverbs 13:12
There's always a blessed hope in Christ🙌💒they have to make the choice but He is there waiting with open arms ❤
Psychological warfare is how one councillor described it! So very true! You have a very clear understanding of the big picture. Thank you.
I didn't think so, they never seem to change no matter how much u PROVE to them that their behavior is abnormal
Also referred to as malignant optimism.
I held on for 4 years. I wanted my husband to care, to want to be a loving, supportive husband and father. He didn't. He put his time and energy elsewhere. I finally gave up come year 5, and now we just live as roommates because our children are still little and need the financial support of a dual income.
I am so sorry.
I hope you find solace in your writing
How's that working out?
Phases of an initial relationship with a narcissist:
Infatuation
Commitment
Confusion
Insanity
Hopelessness
Realization
Stupification/ astonishment
"Oh HELL no" phase
Escape
Recovery / healing
Did i leave anything out?
I totally agree. Been there and unfortunately still in this CRAZY TOXIC marriage. There are financial issues that need to be dealt with that I of course am tyed into, which he caused, without my knowing. Narcissist trait. Please pray for me that this financial issue gets dealt with. God bless
You have to accept it with your family and society and when you do it makes life a lot easier.
Thank you for your help L.S. I have had abusers use my hope to manipulate me along with triangulation and lies. It never got better, and would have gotten worse.
You sound like you've "been there, done that". I think you are the best at explaining what it going on with these lizard people. If I had this knowledge years ago my life would have been better. My self esteem was destroyed by my mother and I ended up just working all the time and avoiding life and people.
Ground hog day every day❤
I do believe you, that narcissists will do increasing harm no matter what, yet I do pray to survive the end of their lies and the revealing of the abyss of their intentions.
When I was lowest, I was too weak and wounded to move or speak much. Immobilized by fear I realized I cannot live in a world without narcissists. I was so confused, and needed to learn discerning and trust like a child...
I decided to take a lot of family abuse since I am healing instead of no contact, because I hoped to grow and heal the relationships with as many in the family as I possibly can love. It revealed a lot of covert family dynamics when I started to change, and when my body released trapped trauma. While I am not assured by the family bonds, I myself got quite balanced and developed some skills to listen and respond firm even in absurd gaslighting conversations. The narcs got much more agitated, and the fear in the family ramped up. I feel all are suffering more since I am healing than before... Sometimes that pleases me, sometimes I feel guilty for healing, or becoming arrogant, a narc myself.
Sometimes I want to break all bridges, and I wonder whether it is also my Ego lying to me, again, telling a story of training discernment, balance, and a tough skin, just to keep me on a toxic diet?
The Little Shaman roots out every scrap of hope from your brain, heart and nearly dead cold hand. Exactly what is needed to move on and heal. Otherwise one just keeps going in the loop of " nice narc\ bad narc" back and forth, forever. Thanks, Little Shaman!
I got through a family narcissistic relationship. I came out the other side. With a lot of help from you, Little Shaman. Yesterday, 2 relatives asked me about what happened. To tell the story was sad. I don't like to say to say anything bad about anyone, but I told the truth. I wasn't going to protect the narc and flying monkeys. Maybe people find out about the narcissist in the end.
I left after nearly 6yrs. This month would’ve made 6yrs. I left on March 1. Got my own studio apartment and he didn’t think I ever would’ve left. Thanks to my EMDR psychologist and my DV case manager, I was able to leave for good. I’m going better at my career now and feeling peace at my new homes
Congratulations! We're here for you!
Thanks Shaman. Is there hope of ever finding love? Are will I always end up with narcissists😢😢😢
As much as I loved and hoped for my mother, once I began learning about narcissism and could see exactly what LS is describing here, early on, it was like rudimentary math. She wasn’t going to change, was in a path to worsening and was being staunchly enabled, by my sister. The only thing left, was the subtraction of myself, so I did that.
I’ve always said, “Go do something you can win at.” So, I did.
I also see this again, in probate. I am stuck trying to produce items my sister says she wants, of our mother’s, but I can’t provide them - because she has them and is otherwise not participating. Why? Because, as a malignant narcissist, she enjoys the dynamic of keeping the case in spin and keeping a war going. The judge will need to find a solution, unless the judge would like to continue being in this war also. This is also how I know how malignant a narcissist my sister is. She is out of her mind with anger, for having to have lifted a finger, during the few years I was absent (no contact), in contrast to the decades she was absent. Although I don’t know her well, due to her absence, it was one of the things I picked up on, about her, long before narcissism became a known topic in my life. She is defined as being someone who is a tenacious parasite, who has felt she should get everything, for nothing. The only light, at the end of this tunnel, is that for the trajectory she has (still in mom pleasing mode), she will be absolutely flooded with paperwork she wants, which will look much like a Chihuahua with a dinosaur bone. That’ll keep her busy!
"The narcissist will sometimes admit that they have a problem or are wrong" This is a tricky one because there's always some sort of tricky wording or manipulative language used whenever they apologize or when they admit they are difficult, and if you really pay attention, you'll never actually hear any indication that they think they should STOP being this way. In other words, they might acknowledge that they are judgmental, arrogant, stubborn, narrowminded, entitled, quick to get angry over little things, etc. but they'll always phrase it in a way that makes them seem like they are proud of it or like they think these qualities are endearing.
Whenever they treat someone badly, play games with them, cut them down, undermine people's happiness or success, etc. they will say all kinds of things to excuse their behavior. "I just have high standards", LAUGHINGLY saying "I'm such a b****/a******", "I'm just annoyed. I just need to learn to deal with you better, I guess". "People don't like that I'm brutally honest and tell it like it is." They seem to be almost proud of these destructive tendencies because they think it proves that they are in a position of power/superiority and that it's their God-given right to break people down when they aren't worthy.
Basically, in every regard, the narcissist will seem to acknowledge that they are "different" in these ways. They will acknowledge that no one else is as harsh, rude, judgmental and cruel as they are, but they never indicate that they have the desire to change....which is the actual important part! They just act like all of these things come with the territory of being perfect and superior.
Exactly.
My narc ex admitted reacting badly under certain circumstances but 1 it was my fault setting him off andc2 it was my fault his bad reaction got worse because I excallated it by holding him to account or wanting my feelings to he heard. He said I should walk away and leave him to cool off as I should understand how he is. I understood what he was and left him alone for good.
My ex narc used war terminology when I tried to push back on his poor behaviour. Ie why do I try so hard to start a war with him. If I want war I will have it. He's my prisoner. He's in destructive mode. Why do I try so hard to make him hate me, I'm not his enemy. This is their play book. They are at war with themselves and the world. They are severely disordered. You can't save them. Accept this, grieve, move on and find your peace.
Thank you 🙏. Reality is a very, very hard thing to see, hear, smell, taste and swallow.
Confusion requires infusion to break free from the illusion!
It is a battle of the soul; armor up!
Stay alert!
Stay alive!
Stay strong!
Peace ✌️
So many great nuggets here. And the trenches analogy is just so damn evocative. - It’s been years of no contact for me, and I still find myself in toxic hope that things will turn around. I call it “Mom Hope.” I believe it’s as strong as the love you have for your child. So, in that sense, I know it will never go away completely.
Thank you for this today, I so needed it. My entire family can not or will not accept a thing. They want everything to just be the way they need it to be and are clueless about how to fix or that things need to be different. They just want me to support them by coming back and doing what they need. No recognition of why I am holding out and sticking to my truth. This has been the most painful experience I have allowed myself to endure. My normal would be to just let it go and give in so the family is okay, but I just can’t do anymore. I have a sibling with cancer and he needs support now and yet I am being pulled back in to crazy town if I enter back. I seriously tried, but it is more than I can take. This is so difficult. I don’t want to be hurtful but I just can’t allow myself to suffer anymore at their hands. I’m hurting enough. So very difficult for sure. Thank you for the reminder today.
Yep on point Sharmin.Seen it all.
You are THE absolute BEST on this topic!!!… Thank you!❤️❤️❤️
In the awesome movie “When Harry Met Sally” this is exactly why Marie clung to that married man despite acknowledging to Sally “you’re right, I know you’re right.. he’s never going to leave her”.
I used to call this 'the fantasy bond'. I think John Bradshaw came up with it.
great video.
I am very very appreciated this video, little shaman, especially the title, Great of Great!!!❤❤❤❤
Same battle... Different day
Truly a BLESSING!! The way you explain this awful circumstance is so beautiful. Real, simple and practical. Thank you ❤
wow the best explanation ever 💯
This title HIT me! 100000000%right 🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍 Thank you very much, little shaman, you always that sharp ❤❤❤❤❤❤
That for sure , prognosis negative!😊
OMG Girl. Spot on!!!!
Excellent upping your game on the videos! They look spectacular.
Thank you LOvely Sister for your sharp insights 谢谢！
You are so welcome! Thank you!
My trench is my home, and we are in a battle for control over who rules the house. Having also entrenched themselves in my home, they changed the lock on the guest room and refused to give me a key. They think I want to go thru their stuff. They've been going thru my stuff, so I locked the garage to make that harder for them. They threatened to call the sheriff to make me let them in the garage. The pastor tells me to give it up and let them take over. Is that what I'm supposed to do? My fear is they will take my house and I'll lose it. They'll swap lives with me. They'll take my wealth (they think I'm rich, but I'm supporting them with my social security and my parents' stipend), and I'll end up homeless as they were when I took them in. Is this what I have to accept?
You got it narcs waste of time,just leave. Their are good people out there.
The good people are probably the ones I've been afraid of all my life that they were too good for me. I never dared to approach them, and they never approached me.
good one thank you
All the above. I still struggle with this inability to grow part, take ANY wisdom. Sad reality.
That's why destroying someone else's life with no contact to steal livelihood or revenge cheat is a bad idea
Thank you, I was stuck in toxic hope for more than 55 years ( raises by a narcissistic mother and married with a covert Narc fir 25 years). I did so much inner work and I still feel like under a spell/ traumabonded. How can I say that I am not a narcissist too?
Thanks!
You're so welcome! I'm grateful to help and thank YOU!
Excellent
An ego is the last thing a narcissist needs
I know what you mean! In this video though we are referring to Ego in the context of sense of self. The ego is the part of every human being that speaks as "I."
Many people seem to get continually confused between mental health/mental illness and good/ evil. There are both good and evil mentally ill people, and there are both good and evil mentally healthy people. Mentality is a different spectrum from morality. Morality comes from the heart. The word mind represents a metaphysical aspect of the physical brain organ. There needs to be a word to represent the metaphysical aspect of the heart. Our heart and our feelings are our center, not our brain and our thoughts. Many people seek refuge from the pain the heart experiences by retreating into their minds and brains. There is a difference between the word morality and the word ethics. Morality is a matter of one's own heart. Ethics is a matter of the consensus of right and wrong established by societal groups. Ethics is logic-based and of the mind. Morality is emotion based and is of the heart. Morality is more accurate than ethics because our hearts are our centers. Narcissistic people have disconnected themselves from their own hearts.
🎤 drop 👏🏽👏🏽
Another comment, when they contact you and you end up explaining or trying to explain, it’s just hopeless even if they can be nice, they are just so unaware. This can’t all be narcissism, can it? Help! Endless explanations to people living on their own world accepting everything because they believe in god or Christ, but yet they can’t see anything else. Am I wrong? This is how we get pulled back into the train wreck. 🙏🏼 Thank you again. We try and reflect and end up going back to the circus.
Why doesn't this channel get a lot of views??
UA-cam sucks 😮
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So how come they change for the next supply. Did you teach them enough in the relationship? Could they have learned how to behave now since they are getting older and need to keep up with the facade because, now, since they left someone so great, all eyes will be on them?
If someone is pathologically narcissistic, they didn't change for the new supply. They are simply doing what they always do in the beginning of a relationship.
@@thelittleshamanhealingi think it’s a bit more complicated than that. There is someone for everyone, even for a narcissist. I imagine someone sociopathic and Machiavellian could make a relationship work with a narcissist as they would have the cunning and the patience to out manipulate the narcissist
Yes there is hope for a narcissist. With Jesus Christ everything is possible. Do you know him?
Hopium
Hopium. 🤣
Basic things from an adult relationship, with a grown up human being?
In this sewer? Lol.