Can Video Games Teach Tank Tactics? - War Thunder M3A3 Bradley
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- Опубліковано 22 січ 2024
- When a Ukrainian M3 Bradley Gunner says a video game helped him in combat, I had to find out for myself just how much of a role video games can play in teaching real world tank combat tactics. Do video games really have the ability to teach? Let's find out!
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Watch Gaijin nerf the Bradley as a result.
the m3a3 being at 10.0 is enough of a nerf
Gaijin: "We Can't Balance The Maus"
Gaijin: "We Can't Model Depleted Uranium Armor."
Also Gaijin: "The Object 279 is FINE."
I was about to grind for Bradley until they have moved it into 10.0 😭
and make the t 90 stronger bc of russian copium
10.0 is too much please dont
Panzer doesn't want to tell you, but he learnt how to command the Leo using war thunder
Shhhh!
@@PanzerPawhow much Golden Eagles for a classified document 🐥
@@Lanny.MGive him Gaijin Coins
@@Lanny.M At least 5000
@@Lanny.Mget in a argument with him about the leopard and wait
Im a former Bradley driver and gunner. I use the tactics i learned in WT on the M3A3 and i am always in the top 3 on my team when i use it.
You have any wisdom to share? Or is it just stay out of sight, shoot the sides, etc...?
@@freezie4511 Least obvious russian T90M commander
@@pazdol4705 what are you talking about? 🥺 I'm definitely not getting intel, just simple knowledge on how to *cough* counter them *cough*
@@freezie4511 I top or usually do well with it, the key thing is u want to stay far, like get high advantage at a hill or something and use the most u can with ur commander thermal sight, this is ur best friend. U get more FOW/cover becuz the Tow are kinda upward, so this means u can be behind cover or on a slope and peak and shoot with ur tow. Ur tow is ur best and ur 25mm is pretty shit imo lol, best to use TowA. For me, I mainly use Tow2b and 1 set of TowA. I know Tow2b ain't tht great but it works here and there for me usually especially the way how I play
As a guy that just looked up some leopard stuff, I dominate with it. Real life tactics work, but main difference for me is 0 communication between you and your driver, gunner etc, a thing you have in real life. No one talks about that. Here you are a one man crew, real life you have 2 3 guys that you need to talk to and command, do stuff etc. And of course, war thunder you can just respawn. You first know what happens in real life if they blow you up. No more respawn.
Other Warthunder youtubers: I don't know who I am (Spookston specifically). I don't know why I'm here. All i know is that I must kill >proceeds to score 10-15 kills games and a few nukes.
PanzerPaw: Tank lores while playing Warthunder.
Haha yeah I guess that's pretty true. I know I'm not good at the game. I just like tanks :)
Slight correction, the Bradley in question was an M2A2 ODS (standing for Operation Desert Storm) not an M3A3. The functional difference is minimal but I am a pedant at heart.
Yeah I just felt the M3A3 represented what they used more than the base model M3 we have in WT
@@PanzerPaw That's perfectly fair enough, overall it's about as close as you're going to get.
@@PanzerPawThe m3 Bradley which disabled the T 90M tank so that the crew had to leave it was destroyed 1 week later by a drone.
This proves how ferocious the war in Ukraine is, a vehicle cannot last 1 month even if used carefully after first contact with the enemy.
Quantity has quality itself
@@AprezaRenaldysource?
@@AprezaRenaldyDef a Russian bot lol
something not touched on in this intro is that optics being damaged in War Thunder means absolutely nothing, despite it being potentially catastrophic and effectively blinding the crew in real life (which is what is speculated to have happened in the scenario referenced).
Only thing I've noticed is that damaged optics lose their effects like thermals or night vision until they're repaired. I'd like to see something more than that like the sight picture being blocked or something
@@PanzerPawthose little red flashing arrows you get at the side of your screen showing where an enemy is at are dependent on the keen vision skill for the crew, I'm pretty sure damaging optics affects the range on that
Well, depends on the kind of optic. How are you going to destroy a viewport? Turn it into a bigger hole?😂
Bro knew how to beat the russian bias lol.
But he really didn't. T90M drew away, till it hit a tree and then got hit by a drone
@@cactuslietuva Yeah and what could be the reason the t90 hit the tree? .... think hard my man.
@@Metylaner Im saying Bradley was part of what destroyed t90m , but not the main reason.
@@cactuslietuvathe main reason was because of the Bradley getting a mission kill on it
@@cactuslietuva You're fucking stupid the bradleys rendered the T-90M unable to fight back which means they won the engagement on top of it being destroyed afterwards.
I was a combat engineer in an armored division we had bradleys and strykers there I was trained on strykers personally but yeah we trained to button a tank by shooting at optics for gunner commander and then drivers optics and hatches then tracks gun ports cannon muzzle and if you have an angle on it the engine compartment. Not ideal with .50 cal. But it can be done with a mk19 if your fighting close quarters like let's say an urban environment or tight terrain. At that point your screwed if you don't lol and probably screwed of you do so might as well. Bradleys can button a tank way more effectively because it can shoot much farther away while shooting HEI-T or API that can destroy optics with its explosive or primary fragmentation while simultaneously causing alot of smoke on the tank making it harder to see anything clearly out of any sights that are intact. It's a solid defensive tactic when pressed by a tank but you normally wouldn't want to attack a tank like that. That would be crazy without proper support.
Exactly right yeah. We were also taught to button up enemy tanks with our MGs and whatever else we had. Because hey, if you can't break what's armoured, you might as well break what isn't.
I Play Too Much WT That I Can Immediately Identify Most Tank IRL
i just randomly saw and identified a armored car that appeared in a frame of a movie, i 'm still unsure whether to feel proud or go touch grass
@@ManySighs both
@@Frenzyv2 it was a skf.222 during a frame of the newest (and worst) iniana jones
@@ManySighsIt's funnier when you find Pattons (as Panzer IV Auf G) and Leopards (as Panzer V D) in old WW2 movies
That's me but for aircraft. Most planes i can tell exactly what they are at a glance.
I used to be in the Army. I went in as a PVT and came out as a CPT. I used the ARMA games extensively to educate myself and as a tactics laboratory. It was sort of "compressed experience". By the time I was in command of troops in the field I already had a good sense for what worked and what didn't, for what was important, and for where the book didn't quite work out.
That allowed me to get a leg up on the "officer stuff" such as wargaming and tactical exercises. It also allowed me to shape my command and sharpen it with what was essential. When we went to exercises and validation we cleaned the OPFOR's "cookie locker" decisively, and we went together through a very challenging deployment and brought everyone back home more or less in one piece.
Im relatively new, and watching your videos made me realise the grind hasn’t even started ( I’ve played for 1.5 months now)
the reason i dont play war thunder, is the grind.
lol gl bro💪
What br are you at bro?
Just give up now. You don't want to end up like me playing for so damn long just to get the Top Tier and realize it just is not fun and never has been and you've wasted years of your life for literally no reason.
Feed the Snail
Part of the Snail, part of the game
*ALL HAIL THE SNAIL*
_help me_
According to my brother who was a bradley mechanic they do have the helicopter tracking.
Annnd now he's going to jail. 🤣
Blud trying to leak classified information
@@GoonyMclinux sorry to be that guy who ruins the joke however isn't that not classified?
Considering his Bradley got knocked out later on [Same dude posted a video with it] I can clearly say NO.
Personally, I think the Ukrainian Crewman played the Game Squad before the War. It has an similar Damage model like War Thunder and has implement real weakspots on actual vehicles.
Unless things have changed a lot since I played the damage model was very simple and buggy
Love your vids bro, keep it up
3 minutes in and its funny as hell.... your tracking worked perfect on your brad the enemy tank just stop working perfectly
Actually seeing someone critic others and using tactics of others to show us what to do and not to do as well possibilities of real life counterparts too (in a way) is new and I like it.
Unsure if you are ablr to do more of content like that, but it would be pretty epic of mixture of gameplay and spectating and commenting.
I've thought about it but I'm personally not really good enough at the game to comment about that. I guess I could talk more about how it might work IRL but idk how much interest there would be in that. The Mighty Jingles does a good series commenting on replays and such tho
@@PanzerPaw i remember The Mighty Jingles, yeah I agree on the commentary and such. Though either way true
May not work best here either too.
I really liked the part when you commented while spectating. Could you do that more often? Like a video series?
Someone else already asked this as well so.. hmm 🤔 maybe
For anyone with a VR headset! And have 2 other friends with a VR headset that like tanks. Get Steel Crew! Me and my friends have a blast with it. Firefly's vs T-34-85's where you all have to play the crew. Driver/Gunner/Commander. It'll teach you just how difficult tank combat really was.
I think just having a conversation with Panzer would be cool, as someone from tanker to tanker
Incredible Video 👍
In warthunder, the auto cannon is very good at suppressing fire if you aim for tracks(as you said) and or the gun barrel, and in warthunder, your gunner sight. Is in your barrel, so you can basically blind any one who trys aiming at you.
Panzer prob my fav wt channel
warrhunder is fun but the grind takes forever
If you don't like playing low tear, you will not like playing high tear. There is no grind, only tank driving.
Dont grind lol. I just saw the game as a fun ww2 tank simulation and forgot about rp. Sure there were still bias bullshit moments, but i made it to 6.3 ground and air usa, and Im still kicking ass
The m3 is the scout variant so its more of an afv than an ifv
I think it helped him in that situation cuz it was point blank range engagement. He was able to shoot directly in to the optics and few other parts that made that T-90M not operational any more
Even if WT isn't necessarily 1:1 in terms of portraying armour characteristics and how certain ammo-types perform, it does make sense that it can help train someone to quickly spot those weak-points.
...also it's kinda dumb that WT lets you knock-out gunner/commander/driver sights but it does absolutely nothing in terms of gameplay. It could be annoying, but it'd also be kinda neat if like... hitting the driver-sight made the tank sluggish, hitting the gunner obviously removes the gunner sight, commander-sight removing the ability to spot/use the bino's until it's all repaired.
Hey Panzer thank you very much talking about the Bradleys I'm really glad you sold the video also on your next video can you show the actual video of the Bradleys can face the T90 please also can you see what your opinion about it it will be awesome I like your contents please reply when you have a chance to you're awesome man and thank you very much for your country😎👍
Destroying enemy track or outer module like sensors and optic are a common tactic, especially if you can't pen the enemy.
im glad there are no infantry at WT tho
The Object at 10:25 got me thinking; how often does unseen terrain act to the active detriment of a tank crew? Are there systems in place to prevent terrain from being an issue in most scenarios like it was for that Object?
there is something to be learned from everything
Nice video!!!!!!!
It definitely boosted his confidence
I fully believe that while his training instructors did teach him to hit the sensors.
The years of Warthunder experience prolly help as it became a muscle memory thing
Where to aim isn't really a tactical decision but a technical one. On the technical level War Thunder can certainly teach you useful things. I'd go for something like ArmA 3 for tactical stuff like maneuver and terrain use.
I see you did address the technical/tactical divide later in the video.
I was in 2nd ACR 04 back then we just had humvees.
I remember a few days ago, sky news called the Bradley an armored truck 💀
Thats somehow worse then gonzo calling the Bradley a jeep
The 8.3 Bradley is my favorite vehicle
If we going semantics, the m3 is a CFV the m2 is a IFV the difference is the m3 swapps troop space for more ammunition and is used by cavalry units aka cav scouts
I wonder if you’ll ever have a content creator emblem Panzer
MR. Paw can you do a breakdown of the actual footage of the two bradlys taking out a T 90m also love the video
I would but UA-cam doesn't really like actual combat footage on the site so it might be tough
Have you played any Squad 44 (Post Scriptum) Armored Warfare matches? The tactics and damage model looks a lot like WT, but its a good way to develop tank crew communication.
I have wanted to do a video on Squad tanks but it's hard to get a crew together to play
I think it is true for weak spots if i use a TOW on a T55 I will aim for the front left where they store the ammo and for how they killed the T90M simple they hit it so bad they destroyed the Gunner optics and caused a Turret malfunction in the electric system now when it comes to a M2A2 ODS it wont make a big deal now if your a Leopard 2a6 or a Abrams or T82 then shot placement can be a big thing that video games help you at
What Leopard did you actually command and also in witch country/army
Wasn't there a version of the arcade game Battlezone made for Bradley gunners?
Correction. Ukrain was given M2 Bradley's. Granted there is only a few differences, mainly being the M3 carry's more missiles and has less dismounts because of that
They actually damaged t90 m ability to use main gun and in the video you see the crew escaped the field
"damaged t90 m ability to use main gun" I don't remember them mentioning anything about the T-90M's gun being damaged, in fact it reported that the optics being damaged were the reason the crews were unable to see anything and therefore use the gun at all though still fully functional (possibly)
apparently the turret went bonkers , the crew escaped and the massive explosion in the video was the smoke launcher going off , fact is the crew escaped , whether they died later is irrelevant the tank was battered into submission not destroyed by the bradely , a drone blew it up later
WHY DID I GET A WAR THUNDER AD ON THIS
Ngl, You can use War Thunder to practice Using positions, Cover and Moving without getting spotted quite well.
it'll get people decently battle ready incase they ever find themselves in a military vehicle. (just Gunnerwise)
The bradley also has spall liners irl to protect the soldiers inside it
Its not meant to fight enemy tanks even we have seen it fighting tanks in ukraine
It has a cannon to suppress enemy fire not to fight vehicles
dont need to penetrate to be effective, blinding tanks (especially older models from the 1980s) makes them helpless so even without penetration you can 'neutralize' an MBT.
That same soldier made a video outside of his destroyed Bradley just a few days later so no the answer is no
1:25 "not necessarily sending out the turret into space", proceeds 10 seconds later to say "taking out the ammunition"
1:41 "all of this things...", proceeds to ignore 1 last important thing which killed the famous T-90M-Bradley encounter, the turret optics...
We have been using video games for training since the NES released. Yes they can teach tactics because we have tank and aircraft simulators doing this for decades. The issue is the old thought officers not letting new tactics develop. The US for example is trying to remove the training and tactics we developed for clearing convoy paths in the last 20 years of war.
YES!
technically yes, it teaches you alot alot more about tanks and it teaches you the habits of people using tanks
Could the translation of the interview be wrong and the crewman meant a simulator the US provided to train Ukrainians?
It can also be said that simulators are just very fancy video games. It would look like a video game to an average person.
Definitely possible but since every outlet was reporting it that way, I decided to just go with that.
A component I somewhat want added to the game is armour degradation due to repeated stress to an area, and maybe the hull getting compromised makes it really compromised instead og a tacky hole shaped sticker with sparkles
That would get VERY obnoxious quickly. I can see the reasoning and it would add realism but can you imagine how annoying it would be to deal with SPAA and autocannon armed wheeled lights. Most of them are annoying enough as is but if you add armor degradation to the VBCPT2 and it’s 25mm with a cracked fire rate it will be mauling through MBTs, also imagine the M163 with its 3000rpm fire rate or the LAVAD or even at lower BRs stuff like the Marders and the SPAA would be able to chew through armor in an unintended fashion. If they were going to add it I would hope it would only effect composite armor that way it takes some oppressiveness out of lower BR vehicles but does allow IFVs and stuff to be a bit more effective against MBTs in a somewhat realistic way
its literally been a known fact, that the US military allows certain tactics and vehicles to be used in video games along with weapons, is because in a way it is training future soldiers indirectly.
I feel like most people need to understand that war simulators are trying to get as close as possible to the real thing without killing gameplay. so the concept of where to shoot another tank CAN be learned from a game like warthunder. its no different then the concept of a "simulator" to train crews as they do in poland and germany for the Leopard.
So i have a question, is there a such thing as suppression in regards to other tanks like the bradley did against the t90m. He was shooting him non stop which my guess caused confusion inside of the t90?
Yes you can still be suppressed in a tank. Shell impacts, even non-penetrating shots, can still rock the tank and have a concussive effect. Not to mention, it can also be difficult to determine where the fire is coming from when it's a significant volume of it.
@@PanzerPaw I suspect even the noise alone can make it awkward to hear over the intercoms? It's presumably not easy to communicate when someone is banging your metal box very hard repeatedly.
bro use the TOW-2B and bring the TOW-2A as backup
Panzer ima say this but after he said that 1 week later his Bradley got hit.
Yep when I went to war I won every Tank battle the enemy didnt stand a chance against my Premium ammo
Wait, that means his a top tier player
Also how many rounds does it take to "Break" an armor IRL if they don't penetrate, like you kept on hitting the same spots
He didnt destroy the tank all he did was explode a bunch of reactive armour and disabled the .
There is a longer version which shows the tank retreating and being struck by a fpv drone after which the crew escapes
That driver ended up getting his bradley destroyed he himself made the video
Yes.
Well yeah...
hell let loose is better example of using tank tactics when you get good group of people
I'm more terrified by infantry tactics honestly.
panzerpaw once again i urge you to try out Foxhole. See you as tank comander
MTC 4 on Roblox has taught me to take on any armored vehicles 😂
I'll take a john degree excavator all day.
my 1k hours on squad may be useful someday
So technically any time you force an enemy to repair, that could count as a firepower-kill or mobility-kill in real life?
_Takes notes_
i was in the normandy game with you and i said hello :(
So do people hate being the loader irl like they do in full crew tank sims?
Being the loader isn't all bad. You have the most space and your own hatch.
Try simulation battle, i think it can be fun :)
Jus so y’all know the Russian tank survived and actually made it back to its unit with its turret spinning. But the bradley in the video was knocked out 2 days later. The same guy who operated the Bradley made the video next to the destroyed vehicle
Ya, no. That Bradley is still operational as of today.
@@nobodyherepal3292 where’s the video
Driver himself stood next to the destroyed crispy vehicle
@@donquixotedoflamingo9507 they literally were doing maintenance on it in the video with the engine on.
@@nobodyherepal3292 where’s the vid bud post the link in the comment
How do you not know how to play the bradley? Use the goddamn commander sight
This exactly why governments don’t want people leaking info to the devs 😂
What tank did you operate
Leopard 2
well video games certain taught me how to is a gun
3:15 yes, he exploded, luckily, the crew have ejected on time.
Correct me if im wrong but, dont most proper armies in the world use Simulators to train crew as well as practical training on the vehicle, so technically video games.
Yes, we use simulators too. They're a lot more in-depth than video games and even milsims tend to go. But I always encouraged trainees to play tank games outside of training time because it helps with other things too
Oh for sure a training simulator is far more complicated than any game, im just thinking that some amount of experience from a Game that has sim aspects, like Warthunder for example, would carry over in to practical use on a vehicle up to a certain point of course. As you said.
@@PanzerPawespecially for tactics and communication you don't necessarily need a simulator. I've seen regular foot soldiers use games just as a means to train communication and organisation.
The m3 Bradley which disabled the T 90M tank so that the crew had to leave it was destroyed 1 week later by a drone.
This proves how ferocious the war in Ukraine is, a vehicle cannot last 1 month even if used carefully after first contact with the enemy.
Quantity has quality itself
"Quantity has quality itself" is an absolutely stupid phrase that has zero basis in reality.
Yeah, the Bradley got knocked out, but the crew was fine, because it's a vehicle that wasn't designed by mentally challenged apes.
I've been taught certain tactics in real life that work wonders in games, why would it not be the other way around?
"if u have to worry about weak spots its not a very good weapon". confused about this because tanks have all their armor in turret and UFP because they expect u to shoot center mass. u could also say if the armor doesn't block the shot it's not very good armor in the first place??
It's both. Good armour should be able to resist a shot but a good weapon should be able to penetrate it. So it ends up being a continuous cycle of "one-upping" the other.
@@PanzerPaw yeah so when your gun can't pen their armor what do you do? keep shooting center mass??
i mean warthunder is basically a battle simulation
It's like in simulations. Forget about expensive training programs and get people to play WarThunder. It is the most complete game, in addition to having an involuntary intelligence program, it also provides tactical training.
There is a lot more to being an AFV crew IRL than any video game will ever "teach".
@@obsidianjane4413 A guy in Ukraine defeated a T90 tank with little AFV training time and an outdated vehicle.
@@Alex40498 that doesn't necessarily mean WT is purely responsible for their success, IRL has more factors involved than in the game where you just need info, a mouse and a keyboard.
I mean the russian been using so many video games tactics in this war. Nobody talks about it cause you know ”russia bad Ukraine good” but yeah following what happens on the battlefield regularly is very interesting.
Hove big diference is there betwean games and tank simulators?
To be honest, he probably played World of Tanks where hitting weak spots on tanks to do consistent damage.
and the same guy got his Bradley destroyed a week later..
This Video is Incredibly BASED lmao
I think the t-90 crew are new drafty because they miss in point blank range
The engagement between Bradleys and T-90 was in such short range that TOW missiles didn't have time to arm. At such short range it's easy to hit pretty specific parts of enemy vehicle and the extra knowledge gained from games might come in handy. Though from looking at the footage Bradleys mostly shot at turret with HE to make the tank blind.
It looks like a mixture of rounds but I couldn't really be sure. But yeah, just pounding the tank and suppressing it is definitely a valid tactic
As an ex leopard gunner / commander... no wt is nothing like the real deal... steel beast is as close as can be
If you play a lot of Call of Duty, then you know infinitely more about operating GNUs than someone who has never seen one.
Does that make you an expert on fieldstripping and maintaining GNUs? No - but it's a start.
Yes, it can that's why the military uses simulators. But if you try that to t90 in War thunder you're gonna get murdered. Because the gunner and crew are not being blinded by the rounds bouncing off the hall.
I guess you only watched the cut video of that interview. If you watch the full you hear him say that he plays the game but they weakspots didn't kill the tank. The t90 drove away and was wrecked by a drone later on.. ua-cam.com/video/U8-u7NhFIeQ/v-deo.html