WALTER MURCH 2015: FCPX, AVID, PREMIERE PRO
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- Опубліковано 27 жов 2015
- Walter Murch speaks openly about the state of play of the major editing systems in use in 2015.
In the aftermath of the end-of-life of the original Final Cut Pro, there are 3 main systems used by professionals: Abobe Premiere Pro, Apple Final Cut Pro X, Avid Media Composer.
Walter provides his perspective on what works for him, and his latest experience working with Adobe Premiere Pro.
As one who has experienced, and been part of, the process of technological change in cinema, Walter’s insights are deep and profound.
Watch part 2 of this interview: WALTER MURCH 2015: 4K TECHNOLOGY AND BEYOND
www.moviemachine.tv/video/walter-murch-2015-4k-technology-and-beyond/143188593/
Walter Murch Bio.
Walter Murch has been editing picture and mixing sound in Hollywood since starting on Francis Ford Coppolas film The Rain People (1969). He co-wrote, sound-edited and mixed George Lucass THX-1138 (1971), and then supervised the sound editing on The Godfather (1972), sound-edited and mixed American Graffiti (1973) and The Godfather: Part II (1974), got his first Academy Award nomination and won a double BAFTA for picture editing and mixing The Conversation (1974), won his first Oscar for Apocalypse Now (1979), and an unprecedented double Oscar for sound and film editing for his work on The English Patient (1996).
Editing Credits
Tomorrowland 2015
Cutaways (Documentary short) 2014
Particle Fever (Documentary) 2013
Hemingway & Gellhorn (TV Movie) 2012
The Wolfman 2010
Tetro 2009
Youth Without Youth 2007
Jarhead 2005
Cold Mountain 2003
K-19: The Widowmaker 2002
The Talented Mr. Ripley 1999
The English Patient 1996
First Knight 1995
I Love Trouble 1994
Romeo Is Bleeding  1993
House of Cards 1993
The Godfather Trilogy: 1901-1980 (Video) 1992
The Godfather: Part III 1990
Ghost 1990
Call from Space (Short 1989
The Unbearable Lightness of Being 1988
Captain EO (Short) 1986
Apocalypse Now 1979
Julia 1977
The Conversation 1974
Touch of Evil (1998 re-edit) 1958
Dickson Experimental Sound Film (Short) (2003 release) 1894
Sound Department Credits
Cutaways (Documentary short) (sound designer) 2014
Particle Fever (Documentary) (sound re-recording mixer) 2013
Tetro (sound re-recordist) 2009
Youth Without Youth (sound re-recording mixer) 2007
Seeing in the Dark (TV Movie documentary) (sound mixer) 2007
Jarhead (re-recording mixer) 2005
Cold Mountain (sound re-recording mixer) 2003
K-19: The Widowmaker (sound re-recording mixer) 2002
The Talented Mr. Ripley (sound re-recording mixer) 1999
The English Patient (sound re-recording mixer) 1996
First Knight (sound re-recording mixer) 1994
Crumb (Documentary) (sound re-recording mixer) 1995
Romeo Is Bleeding (sound re-recordist) Â 1993
The Godfather: Part III (sound re-recording mixer) 1990
Ghost (sound re-recording mixer) 1990
Dragonslayer (sound re-recordist) 1981
Apocalypse Now (sound designer) / (sound montage) / (sound re-recording mixer) 1979
The Godfather: Part II (sound montage) / (sound re-recordist) 1974
The Conversation (re-recording) / (sound editor - uncredited) / (sound montage) 1974
American Graffiti (sound montage) / (sound re-recordist) 1973
THX 1138 (sound montage) 1971
Gimme Shelter (Documentary) (sound) 1970
The Great Walled City of Xan (Short) (sound) 1970
The Rain People (sound montage) 1969
The New Cinema (TV Movie documentary) (sound) 1968
Dickson Experimental Sound Film (Short) (sound designer - 2003 release) 1894 - Фільми й анімація
22:25 :0 "Visual literacy is what we need to teach; you need to know how to write, how to do mathematics and you need to make a film, even if you don't become a filmmaker. You need to know what goes into making a film, because films will manipulate you through the media if you don't know what's happening with them. I think is going to become a major part of education in the 21st century."
And he is right
WHY THE HELL is that poor guy standing there holding a bounce when there is a perfectly good C-Stand right behind him that he can mount it on?
Were you in THAT much of a rush that you couldn't let him set the bounce and step off the set?? Slavedrivers.
I think he wanted to get in on the BTS WS so that he could say he was in the same frame as Walter Murch, and who can blame him?
Too be honest the lighting is a joke here, it changes all the time, feels like someone was playing with the lights while filming...
looks like he is a prop more than actually helping with the light.
RezaMatix does it really matter?!
This video is a few years old now (as of 2019), would be interesting to see if Walter has used the new FCPX and what he thinks of it. However, by his own admission it all depends on how you work and personal preference. The 2011 rewrite of FCPX was necessary because of the way technology was going .. Apple just decided to release the product as what it thought was an acceptable stage of its production. Sometimes we have to downsize to expand.
Well,... I found this helpful. It's good to know someone like Walter runs into the same problems I do. It gives me hope as I try to learn the Software and build a computer system able to run it too... I'm just a little guy. A Musician trying to leave something behind from our Fans recordings. Trying to build showcase videos of our work from many different sources. The Tech and gear is constantly evolving.
Wow! Great interview. Is there a transcript of this? I love the part where he mentioned visual literacy and knowing how to make a film coming out of a high school because we are manipulated by the media and what movies show us.
Avid fixed the audio track issue in 2016. I wonder what his updated take on Avid & Premiere Pro is.
The industry uses AVID MC. All of the interviews & job offers I've had have all used AVID with the second selection being PREMIERE PRO. I don't know ANYONE who uses FCPX professionally. I prefer PP & see AVID as quite confusing, but the thing is, as I say, AVID is more or less the industry standard for major TV & film companies. Not so much the smaller ones. Editing is editing to me. Choose one you like & use it. The industry shouldn't penalise any individual who uses one program over another.
Great interview ... I'm thinking about heading back to premiere after years now on fcpx. To me it's the organization of fcpx interface and files that I still am not happy with.
Premiere user myself too and love it, but Adobe also step backwards sometimes such as discontinuing support for Speed Grade as they perceived dwindling interest in it based on forum activity, but in so doing lost useful features that aren't yet in AP, though 3rd party solutions exist. Overall and despite crash bugs and other issues, it's still a joy to use.
@@casproductions1978 not quite forever. Self recordable disks have estimated 5 to 10 year lifespan. Factory recorded rather longer. Depends on environment.
@@casproductions1978 in ideal conditions the lifetime can be substantial, but the chemistry in the disks can fail over time leading to errors, and depending on conditions, the time when errors start to appear may be relatively soon. Even if there are errors though, these may be inconsequential or even be error corrected. There’s plenty of research available on the topic.
What a strange juxtaposition, Walter Murch, a person who has created so many interesting works, with so many interesting things to say, in such a poorly produced video. What's up with the lighting? The missing finger edit mentioned. The cuts back and forth from Murch's face to the back of the interviewer's head?...and as also already pointed out, did Apple pay for this? The interviewer constantly steers the dialog back to FCPX even though Murch keeps saying that they (Apple) chopped it up into a beginner level NLE. He basically says he used Avid, then did some work with FCP until Apple dumbed it down, then he moved on to PP except when working with teams of people who are only all familiar with Avid. And, yeah, the guy standing around with the reflector, wth?
Anybody know what the "Joel Coen Arrow" is called inside Premiere Pro??
I don't understand how an interview about the state of the technical side of the film industry can be so poorly shot. Were you in a huge rush?
Good grief, how would you have done it better?
Any trouble with audio and shhhzhehfghh background sound? :D
oes anyone have a problem with the composition. I keep looking at Walter Murch's mouth. I think its too low.
love the piano analogy iTunes updates sums up apples thinking with programmes and updates. you commit so much to learning the latest versions and keyboard shortcuts before you know it you're a mac user and it's too hassle to break out.
Brilliant interview. The closing point on FCX was insightful.
I wonder what's his take on the triple A's now in 2021 ? and about Davinci Resolve too which is getting a lot of hype these days.
What's this dynamic editing on the fly feature he talks about at like 7:20. I have never heard of it before. Could someone please explain it to me, thanks.
Basically it is selecting the edit (or edits) and rolling the edit point by playing or shuttling and monitoring one side to get a sense of where to stop rolling and fix the edit to that point in the sequence. In Media Composer you can roll the edit(s) with the J-K-L keys transporting the edit point forward or backward at various speeds. It is referred to as J-K-L Trimming.
helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/how-to/trimming-timeline-premiere-cc.html
You guys do know there is no answer for which NLE is the best? Each NLE has its own strengths and weaknesses and so do we as editors. Some NLEs are better equipped for certain tasks and some of us are more comfortable using certain NLEs.
I use to be so comfortable in Premiere and I still am but then I got an AE job and it was required that you know Media Composer. After 6 months working in MC for extremely long work hours every day and visiting Avid community, creativecow and other video editing threads I am now a faster editor in MC than PPro.
I think a professional video editor should be comfortable in all the major editing software in order to be the best chance of getting any task for any project completed. With that being said for me MC and FCPX were much more frustrating trying to learn than FCP7 and PPro were.
Avid has 64 tracks, not 25. He doesn't mention Resolve, which is really where editing systems are evolving toward.
resolve editing platform came after this interview, so there is no place
final cut x has been improving and will become popular in Hollywood as the legacy version used to. FCX is fast as fuck in editing .
than you, but i'll stick with avid.
Because: media management & roundtripping Pro tools, Resolve & Baselight.
also premiere once ate my homework, impossible with avid.
cool I used final cut pro 7 and premiere pro is bad they discontinue final cut
AVID is a far better tool that Premiere Pro. It's just a fact of life. Even now PP simply does not measure up as a professional editing system. One example, you cannot freely arrange icons in a bin, you are locked to a list view, which greatly hampers the ability to organize bins visually the way many editors insist their assistants prepare bins.
Amen, I hate Pr.
Now if only this guy would suggest to adobe to add a 7.1 panner in audition.
i think avid is better for realy big projects, premiere pro is better for smaller projects, like short films, commercials, and music videos.
Very eloquently put by Mr Murch
Great
the problem with Adobe products which I love and uses since 97 that Adobe products are full of bugs most of the time, and it's a deal breaker
+Ahmad Ataya They're constantly updating though, just like any software, Final Cut X has been buggy here and there. At work I've had it crash 3 times.
AVID is also buggy as hell. I see STD::EXCEPTION in my nightmares.
+djlobb i know that, and i understand it as well, and let's be honest here, it wasn't that bad until the CC subscription based update, FCPX was the worst thing ever happened at first maybe now it's better but i can't trust apple on it for several reasons, but what i'm talking about is having softwares you like and you love to work on but it crashes so much while you're working which make it hard to meet your deadlines. and it happens to me a lot earlier
+bizmonkey007 unfortunately
Dunkelwelpling there's no right answer for your question, it's all about your needs and preferences, i'm not sure about the ram issue since i don't use avid, but if adobe premiere uses lots of ram even if it's closed then you have a problem and it needs to be solved
Vaybe Reis bile Premiere Pro Demiş :)
Does the interviewer work for the Apple Market Research team? Dude seriously chill out... He didn't like Final Cut X, he moved on. You didn't. It's going to be 👌🤣😒
Can we use all 3 in one project ?
Get one thing from one(software like FCPX) and another from different one(like AVID or PREMIERE PRO)
Niraj Chavan No way it's time consuming whether for short or long projects.
I find the Audio editing particularly awful in Premiere!.. It is however the package that gives me the best performance. Also, the animation system needs a huge overhaul! But unfortunately, Adobe isn't really a company that listens to its customers, not even their professional ones. They just slap things on, whenever their researchers come up with new ideas. Their software suffer from 20+ year old bugs and annoyances, which are still not fixed to this day.
"They just slap things on, whenever their researchers come up with new
ideas. Their software suffer from 20+ year old bugs and annoyances,
which are still not fixed to this day."
As a professional Media Composer editor, this sounds like a very accurate description of AVID! XD I guess every NLE has its quirks. Whichever suits you best, as Mr. Murch says, is by definition the "best" software. But they do all have their positive aspects as well.
martone104 Yeah, Avid is also on the one-way communication wave. Avid is a Dinosaur.
I agree with that. Audio editing is absurd in Premiere. On the other hand, I think audio has always been neglected in these pro systems because on "real" shows the audio is intended to be done separately in Pro Tools by an audio engineer.
It's true. It's funny when I first made my comment, I identified rather smugly as a "professional Media Composer editor"...what an asshole, ha!
I've been using Premiere full-time for the past two months and I can say I agree as far as audio. But your point stands; the assumption is if audio is a big concern, you'll be transitioning eventually to a Pro Tools environment.
For quick turn-arounds, I really feel Premiere is quite unmatched. I loved AVID (even with its issues), but they never took care of the little guy. Ever. I feel like Premiere is better suited for this, so I just slap on a compressor, normalize and I'm done.
FC7 was a great (but 32bit)....and premiere cc is the closest to it...even in the interface. I found hard to work in FCX because of the structure of the timeline, layers etc.
Tops Fanis spend some time with the app. read the manual. it takes time to get into. after you get over the hump, it's a great program. the audio is where the major difference is. and that is excellent once you learn the flow of the system.
That's so true! I am already working on FCPX and it's great! Ok in some points I have some difficulties...e.g I don't know how I can alter the speed in the Storyline without rolling all the sequence using the hand tool etc. The speed tool is great but I have this problem. Anyway...I hope to master it as I did in FC7.
Tops Fanis Do you mean retiming the speed(i.e. slo-mo) in the main storyline, using the 'create storyline function to place multiple clips as a connected clip and retime within that or just moving the position of the start and end of a clip in the main storyline?
Tops Fanis And you will master FCPX. Continued success with it.
Yes, If i.e I have a clip..after a Blank space Clip etc and I would like to fill it with the clip by changing the speed it will alter all the duration of the storyline. If I use the position tool it will fill the blank space but without changing the speed. I don't know if u get my point...because of my bad english.
No mention of Blackmagic Resolve entering the fray as an editor. At the moment it is immature, but I think it will really become a big contender - especially because of it's tight integration with the grading tools.
A lot of pro editors also use Edius. Also Lightworks is a pretty solid tool with it's 20 year pedigree in Hollywood films.
How much is Blackmagic Resolve? I've heard of Edius, but it's only Windows from what I understand. Supposed to be a good piece of software though. When it comes to editing, it seems like there's only so much room for NLEs. Premiere seems to be on the rise because of Adobe's flexible Cloud pricing ($20/month for a continually up-to-date Premiere and Photoshop is damn good), Adobe product integration, and the fact that they listen to pros and actually seem to care (finally adding Dynamic Trimming to Premiere is great, and easily my favorite part of using other NLE's like AVID).
Immature is not even the word for it. I had to abandon a project a few months ago that I started in Resolve because it's truly just not up to cutting real shows. Media management is poor, metadata is a joke, speed is a REAL problem, etc. It was just a nightmare. I still use it as a first step because I shoot RAW on a BMCC quite often, but as soon as I have my audio synched and RAW processed, i move over to Avid and finish there. I don't even bother round-tripping any more, though it would have been handy for my current project that I'm finishing tonight.
@@PerroneFord maybe now you can because now resolve is so good
@@yuddhveersingh710 LOL! I moved to a mostly Resolve workflow a couple of years ago. It's amazing how much the product has grown and matured. If I was cutting big shows, I'd still be doing it in Avid (which I still have) but for the smaller shoots I do, I mostly cut and finish entirely in Resolve these days.
Time marches on...
@@PerroneFord great to hear that you enjoy resolve but avid is expensive but as you use it how it is compared to premier pro and resolve
22:25 the future is now :0
Have not been exposed to UA-cam's film professionals in the comments...they are brilliant lol.
Yes it CAN happen again.... talk about nothing mentioned at the last Mac World... the primary developer leaving earlier this year PLUS most importantly... Apple itself has changed. I know what they were like at NAB during the hey days especially the year they introduced Pro Res ... They were a company focused on the industry... Now I think of Apple as a phone company not a production or artistic creation company. They are into app development to keep their devices going. So for me I am leery about using FCP X... not to mention the whole issue with exporting OMF or AAF or connection to a proper sound mixing system. FCP X is fine for those who have never edited but a total mind fake for those who have. The biggest seller from the amateurs is the speed. And there is some substance to that... but too many other oddities to make it practical to spend time to learn it really well and rethink how I would normally do something. Those who do love FCPX argue that it is all paid for as a perpetual licence vs Avid or PP... That is a huge red herring in my mind ... Frankly I prefer the integration with AE and Audition with PP ... Not totally bugless but more than robust enough for major projects ... I have several in the 90 minute to 2 hr range that challenged the system but it still worked fine considering no transcoding took place. My two cents
I'm just a MovieMachine And I won't work for nobody but you!
I recently approached Adobe head of PP development and challenged him with the interface on Pinnacle Pro (previously Avid on iOS devices bought out by Corel Draw) and he said they were going that way (the Pinnacle interface). In Pinnacle Pro you edit by touching the clip, edge of clip, handles etc which is vey intuitive (no KB shortcuts or tools, you just touch or double touch what you wan to change) but you must completely rethink how you edit and our strategies with single video timeline. Since teaching that platform, I have FCPX another go. I'd previously found FCPX rubbish but now I get it... when you layer, it adds tracks for you ad infinitum, it looks after track management for you, you get on with editing... it's utterly brilliant.
The click to edit ratio is less than half that of Premier or fCP7 so I find it much more efficient.
I find Premier frustrating in that everything is a patch, you want to change volume of a clip you get a window enter dB but if you want to use the volume slider you need to open another window. It's like putting control in another folder within the folder, something Adobe Flash is criticised for... a program that is 20% active with 80% bloated non used patches and ices for problems that have never been properly addressed.
Yes Adobe may be able to add a new window quickly but it is a plug in or a patch to cover a problem that exists under it all.
I now view FCPX in a new light and thanks to bing iced to re think editing with Pinnacle Pro it is exciting to see what a new generation of coders are coming up with.
Viva la revolution.
This interviewer is constantly trying to grill Premiere, putting it down as something people wouldn't use and yet he uses iMovie Pro. Waler has some great responses though, and I'm quite suprised that Hail, Caesar is eing edited on Premiere. Adobe Premiere has made huge strides, largely thanks to Apple's stubbornness and inability to listen to their pro users.
Yeah, I get that vibe, too. The interviewer lost credibility when he said that he hasn't even used Premiere. How can he even begin to talk about, let alone criticise, a program he hasn't used?
FCPX isn't a bad program but the botched launch and unceremonious F you to editors by killing FCP7 when X wasn't ready, is hard to bounce back from. Also, FCPX has an identity problem. It's trying to be both an accessible piece of consumer/prosumer software while also being robust enough for professionals. It's a hard balancing act.
bizmonkey007
I really don't like the magnetic timeline. It forces you to edit in a completely different way. Why not just use iMovie, I've heard that's fast to work with also lol.
+djlobb The Coen's had Adobe reprogram the software to fit their needs. Even with that, they needed to have separate project files just to manage the timeline. blogs.adobe.com/creativecloud/filmmaking-techniques-in-hail-caesar/
*****
That's the way they work, they were known for odd and interesting techniques.
It's kind of hard to understand when walter goes UH UH UH every 3 words or so.
I can hear him clearly. Must be you.
+memyselfandi83g yes, i know i noticed it too but he's still clearly understandable and the other guy said he wasn't. You try sitting in front of a camera like that and keeping your calm ;)
Someone translate it to Latin Spanish. please
is to bad they change the programs with mac
Poor eyes to detailing! At 21:20 some photoshop work has been done, and Walter Murch's left hand fingers gets cut under it. When you are with such a senior and respected person, each and everything should be taken seriously.
probably someone's reflection in the glass is masked out.
Photoshop???????? in a video??? did you mean after effects??
Unwatchable. Kind of ironic that this is so. Did Murch not say "why is this guy stood there with a reflector"?
Why wont one of these companies team up with Walter and allow him to design a program for them
all of that equipment and these shots sucks
I hope they paid him for his time............................................
The interviewer has such a gay drama queen voice
Apple could not care less about their customers. They only care about one thing: MONEY!