Game of Thrones (Part 1) | Why Jon Snow Should've Been King
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- Опубліковано 24 вер 2024
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MAJOR SPOILERS FOR GAME OF THRONES!!
In this video essay I examine why Jon Snow will become the King of Westeros by the end of the show. Game of Thrones has become famous for its subversive approach to storytelling, in which there are no clear heroes and villains, and in which any character can seemingly die at any point in time. But how true is this sentiment, really? I argue that Game of Thrones has at its core never strayed all far from traditional (high-fantasy) storytelling to begin with. And it's when we take a closer look at Jon Snow's individual journey in particular - and how it relates to the archetypal journey of the King - that we can see just how traditional the story has always been, and how it may very well reveal why Jon Snow is destined to rule Westeros...
MUSIC USED FROM GAME OF THRONES SOUNDTRACK (BY RAMIN DJAWADI):
1. Goodbye Brother
2. Dark Wings, Dark Words
3. A Lannister Always Pays His Debts
5. Winter has Come
MUSIC USED FROM MUSICBED:
4. Golestan - Max LL
Music licensed from Musicbed. Get a free trial of the best music for your videos: share.mscbd.fm/...
Business Inquiries: larsvdpeet@gmail.com
Thomas & Lars
Copyright Disclaimer under section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for “fair use” for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, education and research.
Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.
![Let's Rewrite the Battle of Winterfell [ Game of Thrones Season 8 Episode 3 ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/k7m6HP95EDM/mqdefault.jpg)
![Let's Rewrite the Battle of Winterfell [ Game of Thrones Season 8 Episode 3 ]](/img/tr.png)
SPOILERS!
The best way I can describe season 8 is 'a set of cliffnotes for what the real ending was supposed to be' (courteousy of Film Radar). You can tell George had a hand in it, but they just didn't have the time nor the writing quality to pull it off in a satisfying manner.
Jon didn't become the literal king but did (sort of) finish his symbolic journey as the ultimate redeemer of the realm (although how that came to be and what happened after doesn't make much sense).
Dany did end up fully embodying the tyrannical queen archetype as I predicted in this video.
So the blueprint was there, let's just hope that George WILL be able to finish it in a satisfying manner...
- Thomas
I just wanna comment saying your videiss doesn't age well, and then i see this.
Hi, me again. So, I agree Jon Snow completed his symbolic journey on a personal level, yet...the realm wasn't redeemed in any way whatsoever? It's still just as cruel, bloody, unjust, and misogynistic as it was to begin with? It's not that I find the ending unrealistic or unsatisfying. It's that I find it extremely cynical. I really thought we were watching a show about an unjust society evolving into a just society. I read a comment saying, it's like at the end of the Hunger Games, if Katniss hadn't executed President Coin and they had just kept having hunger games. :|
@@TenEnvelopes Haha, yeah I think you could make a pretty strong argument as to why the realm hasn't been redeemed in the slightest. Not to mention that they apparently thought it was a good idea to let a cutthroat nobody control both the most powerful part of the realm and become master of coin. I guess only caring about money and betraying your friends does pay off in the end...
But for sure, the show does play the whole thing off as a better world (especially in the destruction of the Iron Throne into a electoral system). So they were definitely going for a 'redeemed world' vibe. Again, the blueprints for greatness were there, the execution (as with pretty much everything this season) was lackluster at best.
@@storytellers1 I agree, the writers clearly intended a "redeemed world vibe," which is the most annoying part. Like, they didn't even have the balls to give us a dystopia. Instead, they gave us the status quo and tried to sell it as an improvement. All the societal problems that existed at the show's inception still exist.
He became king of the freefolk pretty much, so yeah, he's king.
"Jon will be the main catalyst in defeating the White Walkers" lmao yeah I thought so too.
Press F for even halfway decent storytelling on this show
@@jackrackham3406 The show really went from one of the all-time bests to complete shit in just a few seasons
Well he was, none of the armies would have been there if not for him, but yea he should have been more involved with actually killing the nk
He IS the main catalyst: "A catalyst is an event or person causing a change". That doesn't mean he needs to be the one killing the NK. He united the north and brought Daenery's army to fight against a common enemy. So yeah, he is the main catalyst in defeating the White Walkers. Arya was just a weapon.
@@j.f.l.bousquet1998 Screaming at a dead dragon is a powerful strategy. And no one knows how Arya go from the great hall to the god's wood without passing through the courtyard... To bring an army but not to develope a good strategy is not enough to say "he is a catalyst". Previously, bad decisions made you die. Not anymore.
As the story has progressed we have watched Danny become more arrogant, cold and vicious as she has gained power. Personally I went from liking and rooting for her to not liking her much. As power has been given to Jon, he has continued to be humble, use it to benefit others and be the honorable person he is at his core. Power has not corrupted or changed him. I hope Danny does not become Queen. She has proven that she can not be trusted with that kind of power.
The reason Jon Snow was my favorite character since Episode 1 is that he didn’t want power. He was removed from the game very early on by choosing to join the nights watch and literally relinquish his own power and that was the moment I said to myself, that boy is gonna be king some day.
Lmfao it’ll probably be Arya after she single handedly kills the Mountain, Euron, and Cerci because at this point why not right? *“It’S uNeXpEcTeD”*
This aged like fine wine
Probably be bran😁
HA you thought
Subversión for the sake of subversion. SMH... Dunb & Dumber really phoned that last season in. I mean... season 7 was enough with all the “WTF” moments they had in there and not the good kind. But 8 was a joke. May the gods let GRRM live to finish the books and save the die hards. Thank god they didn’t get their hands on Star Wars .... it would’ve been worse than it already is. And gods save us all then.
"Song of ice and fire"
Now, remove the letter G
Sub 2 Pewdiepie bruh
Funny
@@demetriocooper3990 p0
5 years later and Jon Snow is still the rightful king that the Iron Throne deserves, the one king who cared
Olenna tyrell ones said about Tywin, he was a good leader because he was willing to work with his enemies for the greater good. I’m paraphrasing of course. But jon does the same with Danny, wildlings, and the south. I thought Tywin was the best leader and I think Jon will be a more moral version of him
You can't make a deal if your dead.
absolutely correct
Aegon Targaryen, 6th of his name, King of the First Men, the Andals, and the Rhoynar.
Jon's not nearly as smart as Tywin. I'm saying that even though Jon is my favorite.
Once*
Jon is worthy to be a King. He never seeks power and he always put his people first
So was Ned Stark, but the show would never have been gripping if he hadn't lost his head.
jdogsful he has aunts in his pants
He’s a terrible decision-maker, though. Have you ever seen Breaking Bad’s “no half measures, Walt?” Jon is king of half measures. Always trying to appease or cut an idealistic middle-ground, regardless of the real world effects.
@@benedwards8836 thats what advisor are for aka bran tyreion or davos jon puts his people first and is kind hearted he always puts his life on the line for his people no matter what and is true and honorable who else would realistically take his place that have the same attribute?.
@@Mrsewercat except he has shown to never listen to his advisors when he was a king/ruling
Dany: I force my rule onto people that never wanted it.
Jon: People force me into rulling because they wanted it.
nah those dothrak wanted her as their ruler .
True, but i still love Danny.
the dothraki and the unsullied chose her what are you smoking?
No Dany only has told her enemies to bend the knee and swear allegiance to her. Not an uncommon thing in their times.
There are no more Dothraki warriors soooo
To further your point about Jon being a force of stability, Jon is a combination of houses, one of which is known for its strong moral compass and other for having a proclivity to madness. They balance each other out. If at all there's a character which can heal the seven kingdoms, it is undoubtedly Jon Snow, who has the supernatural/divine powers of his father and the strong character and honour of his mother.
Yes, it's hinting at the yin-yang/order-chaos dichotomy
Exactly. It should have ended that way. He was the prince that was promised. He was the king of the north and the Lord Commander of the nights watch. The fact that D&D shit on this whole plot pisses me off. No one has a better story than Jon. Period. He's king in my book.
@@taylorjones6716 agree with you
The difference between Dany and Jon is that Jon doesn't enjoy killing people.
Neither does Dany man. In her mind she had to punish the Tarlys in order to prove that she meant business. If she enjoyed killing people she would have burned Kings Landing a season ago...
@@arminvanbuuren883 Nah, she likes punishing her enemies
she considered but was talked out of it by Tyrion and Jon and that is what makes Jon much better because that thought would have never crossed Jon's mind in the first place
In season 8 ep 1 she implied that her dragons were going to eat northerners and Sansa "they eat what they want" (with that look) Daenaerys is showing signs of the Taergraeryn madness. "A coin is flipped every time one is born"
@@arminvanbuuren883 whenever she's killed her enemies she does it with a smile on her face
The part you mentioned about the hero being descendant from some form of previous tyranny really hit home symbolically. Luke Skywalker is another great example of that. It is a very interesting trope to see a character live in fear of what he may become, and what came before him. That is something we deal with a lot in our daily life. Many of us are afraid of becoming our fathers or grand fathers. I think evidently the way to overcome that possibility is by being incredibly conscious of it, alike when Luke stared down at his robotic hand after defeating Vader.
8:33 I half expected you to say: "because she's a woman". I'm laughing at a nonexistent joke right now.
This should've been the video: "Jon, man, strong! Dany, wahmen, weak! Please support my patreon:)"
@@storytellers1 You forgot "Subscribe to PewDiePie"
😂😂😂😂
Me too 😂 ❤
Me too!
"Any man who must say 'I am the King' is no true king," - Tywin Lannister makes a point. Such a line will no doubt ring true. GoT has many hints suggesting Dany never claims the Throne, though Jon more than likely relinquishes it to another as his storyline may have him going other places. That and possibly finally rest.
"I'm no hero never was, never will be." - Solid Snake. All the best protagonists fade into obscurity never seeking recognition for their heroics. They don't become leaders because they don't want to since they're not megalomaniac sociopaths like Daenerys.
Best comment. The best leaders are the ones who never wanted it, but are compelled to lead through events beyond their control.
Great quote. Solid Snake was never really a leader though.
@@gqdaddy8544 This is not actually true. Most of the best leaders in history were ambitious people who actively desired to be in charge; a sense of civic duty, etc. is also a necessity, but people who don't want to be in charge (a) generally don't end up in charge and (b) often lack the necessary drive.
@@alecross5255 He may not have been a leader, but definitely an inspiration to the people he interacted with. My favorite example of this is Mad Max. He's not heroic, he's in it for himself but becomes a legend when he gets rapped up in the plot.
Snake you so full of shit.
So if Jon becomes king, your prediction is correct. But if he doesn't, you're saying he's still the *symbolic* king, so your prediction is correct regardless. Making it unfalsifiable, and worthy of Nostradamus.
Lol, don't see the problem with that? It's not unfalsifiable. I'm not saying that it's impossible for him not to complete the arc. Maybe he dies unexpectedly and someone else takes the throne, then I was definitely wrong. My implied point with this video is that they've set Jon up to become the king from the very start, and so to at this stage do anything other than at least finish it to some degree (be it literally of symbolically) would be needlessly subversive and take away from the emotional power of the story (imo). You can disagree of course. I didn't just add the symbolic part to make sure that I'm not wrong lol.
Also if you want to know my literal prediction, it's in my own comment on this video.
@@storytellers1 To me that's like saying they set up Oberyn Martell to defeat the Mountain and they wouldn't dare subvert that expectation. They've definetly set Jon up on a classical King arc, so much like Arthur or Aragorn that it's almost too obvious. Subverting that towering edifice might be the entire goal.
You're right that no matter the outcome, Jon has played a vital role in the story, and is a focal point and touchstone whether he is king or not. He is a symbol of all that traditional kingly stuff in Westeros. Yet his very status as that symbol is a reason for some to want to tear him down -- even those who love him, Aria, Sansa, Daenerys, might find him an obstacle to reform. George Martin might see him as an obstacle to making an original statement.
There's good arguments to be made but from what I can tell, all best are still off.
Yeah, I'm not saying that they won't subvert it. My argument is mostly that I think it would be needlessly subversive to do a 180 at this point in the story. Jon needs some sort of coherent conclusion for the story to feel emotionally gratifying. I think it's really all about whether you want GoT to end on the same tone as it started with, the realistic nihilism. Much has been lost, little, if anything is gained, end of story. Or, if you want to see some sort of redemption coming out of all of this misery. Some higher purpose or meaning to the story more akin to LotR and the traditional stories. I feel like Martin and the showrunner have written themselves in a corner because they have to balance both those expectations. How do you end a story like that in a satisfying manner?
Dennis Bratland Everyone is expecting Jon to die because it’s supposed to be unexpected- Which is why he just might live... I have yet to see a fan theory outside of this one that CONFIDENTLY puts Jon on the throne- Simply because it’s “expected” therefore no one expects it- But he makes the most sense. Sometime you have to stop the surprises and get back to the original point of it all. Lyanna and Rhaegar should have been ruling Westeros- They were fire and Ice- Jon is now fire and Ice... it’s only right it comes back full circle... Yes innocent people died along the way INCLUDING him, but he should be the end all- expected or not.
@@storytellers1 This assumes that GRRM can't blow our minds one last time and have an ending which is so trippy it feels like you need to be on acid to truly appreciate it. Which if you've read even one of his book endings outside of ASOIAF you'd know that this is his trademark. It's a little bit like you're saying GRRM is a masterful storyteller, and yet still massively underestimating him at the same time somehow. Go read his other books, then you'll understand the level this guy operates at- you ain't seen nothing in ASOIAF so far.
Jon has always been a king
Bizzareodin no he hasn’t because Aerys disinherited Rhaegar and his children in favour of Viserys, which means that Dany was Viserys’ heir, so she is the rightful queen. (This is from The World Of Ice And Fire btw so I’m not just making that up.)
@Dagmawi Miregdu yupppp 😂😂
I absolutely root for Jon he's as rational as one could get and has put his word and life on the line countless times,stood for those who didn't have anyone on their side. The only bad thing about it the producers doesn't want things to be predictable.
In purely pragmatic story Tywin or Stannis would have seized power and kept it, as they are the most competant generals and experienced governors. In a purely nihilistic story the white walkers would destroy everyone for their sins, or someone horrible like the Greyjoys would dominate and make life hell for everyone. The clever part of Martin is how heroes like Rob Stark become tragic heroes whos actions (upon review) damned themselves. Getting the fan-boys and girls to let go of Dany will be tricky, but necessary for a happy ending.
I've disliked Danaerys from the beginning, and now I just straight up hate her. The worst written and played character by far
I didn't like Want particularly until season 6. But the writing was poor.
As much as I love her and her journey, I think the worst possible ending would be Daenerys becoming queen and sitting the Iron Throne, it would mean the ending was predicted from the very beginning of the story by even the most casual fans, where as Jon has only just at the end of the sixth season become an actual King, he has had no birthright from his very birth all the way up to the end of the actual story, where his lineage is revealed... he wants nothing to do with it, where as Dany does, she even feels completely entitled to it, maybe even after she finds out about Jon, which is why she in my opinion just isn’t the one to “break the wheel” her very entitlement to the throne and treatment of her enemies reinforces that wheel, Jon won’t only say he’ll break the wheel but he will actually do it without if’s and buts ...
Even without comparing you can see that Jon Snow has been working towards the King of the Seven Kingdoms his whole life. He joins the Night Watch because he doesn't feel like he can fit in etc. He learns to lead from learning to follow as Jeor Mormont says. He is given advice from one of his ancestors Aemon Targaryen. He becomes the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch continuing to learn how to lead. He dies and then he comes back says he is tired of fighting. However, he knows to keep his loved ones safe he has to keep fighting and not necessarily fighting physically. Maybe more fighting mentally. He accepts responsibility when no one else will. Expect I believe at the end of Season 8 he will finally realise that for Westeros to be safe and also keep his loved ones safe. He has to take that responsibility instead of letting others choose that for him. I hope that Daenerys stands aside as her lust for the Iron Throne fades and she becomes completely in love with Jon and serves as a bit of a Queen but has basically enough if not more power then the King. I mean both of them do deserve it. However, Daenerys' objective was the Iron Throne. Jon's objective was more or less the opposite of the Iron Throne.
John Snow: It's called Democracy
Dinklage: Let's make a round table.
Nicholas ever question whether that might have been autocorrect? Are you pedantic much?
@Nicholas Are you a secretly J.K. Rowling?
@Nicholas I admire your confidence. And hope that you're just as successful, without being as fucked by corporates of course.
I agree completely with you that Jon will be King, but I am not so sure it will be Westeros of what he will be king of. Jon's character arc revolves around him coming to terms with being Ned Stark's "son". A Stark in his own right. A man his father would have been proud of. A leader. Based on that it makes so much more sense if he is King in the North. And the way he will become that is, in my opinion, pretty clear, through Sansa. I am sure you have noticed the unique way Sansa/Jon scenes have been presented. The heartfelt reunion back in S6. The very obvious way they are being paralleled to Ned and Catelyn (who are arguably the healthiest couple we have seen in the series). The violent way Jon responds to any man that shows interest in Sansa (Little Finger, Tyrion, and Ramsay). The way Sansa is so aggressive towards Dany (yes partly it's because Dany is an incompetent ruler and a threat to the North's independence but make no mistake she's jealous).
Despite popular belief, Jon's real parentage being revealed won't be a positive thing. Jon would lose all his allies. Danaerys will see him as a threat because of his better claim to the Iron Throne than her and the North will hate and be suspicious of him because of his Targaryen blood. They will assume he bent the knee to Dany because he's a Targaryen. How will this problem be solved? Through a marriage alliance with Sansa. By marrying Sansa will Jon be able to appease both sides. Based on the character arc of Sansa and Jon this would be the best way to end up. This way Jon finally gets what he always wanted: to become lord of Winterfell and a Stark. And Sansa also finally gets what she always wanted: her true knight and someone to marry her for love and not for her claim. This ending would also fit thematically with the story. Westeros was torn apart thanks to a Targaryen Prince and a Stark Girl (Rheagar/Lyanna) and naturally, it will be healed thanks to a Targaryen Prince and Stark Girl (Jon/Sansa).
I've read about this theory and I like it. Wonder if it will actually come to fruition
@@storytellers1 In four weeks and two days we will finally know, but personally, I am very confident. I don't know if you have read the books, if not I highly encourage it, but in there are so many hints and foreshadowing that Jon/Sansa will end up together. What I typed in my original comment barely scratches the surface.
@@confessionsofadreamer488 Going to after the show ends! I know a fair amount of details from them from other youtube channels
Confessions of a Dreamer They are cousins that grew up believing they were brother and sister. I know incest is popular among some- But I don’t think Sansa will be down for it. And to be honest does Jon even WANT to rule? He has NEVER wanted to be king or Lord- That’s been clear throughout the series that he hates titles. Titles killed people he loved. He just wants to save the people- You see how easy he gave up power to Danerys, he’d do it again in a heart beat- He bent the knee to her AFTER she had already agreed to fight beside him. and I’m sure he’s going to tell Dany that he doesn’t want the title.
Question: Does anyone still think that Dany is pregnant? I haven’t heard that come back up in any recent theories and it doesn’t really seem like they would have time to do that since it wasn’t mentioned in the first episode...
👏👏👏👏
There's been so many twists and surprises in the story, you know what ending would surprise me the most? If the Night-King was defeated and Jon took his place on the iron throne happily ever after. More likely though, I sense a heroic second death.
Great video. Made me think. It's really very clever of GRRM to have Dany and Jon both playing almost the same character backstory as Aragorn in LOTR (as you show here) but then asks what happens when that role branches different ways. That Sam quote about Jon giving up the crown to save his people is so very powerful, and would Dany do the same?
Dany is to power hungry she would never give it up.
Which makes her less worthy IMO. All ego and personal wants
Glad to see an argument in favor of Jon being king that isn't just "Azor Ahai prophecy! Song of ice and fire personified!".
I'm not convinced, Podrick Will definitively be on the iron Throne.
This is the true transcended take
@@storytellers1 😂😂
Podric is dead
@@jurgenparkour9337 according to this, he is not gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Podrick_Payne
Hot Pie!
I once imagined that i wouldn't mind the ending where Jon Snow becomes the king, it is symbolic that the guy who wasn't hungry for the power ends up being on the throne (while everyone else who fought for it so hard failed), it also finally accomplishes peace for Westeros, and Jon's character arc becomes very satisfying this way, his Targaryen blood reveal isn't wasted; Daenerys story arc ends with her staying on the good side and dying somewhere in the battle alongside her dragons, might do a similar shot to the one in Mhysa episode. Even with those raw sketches i like it more than og ending.
Jon becoming king just makes sense and finally Targaryen back on the throne and he can reproduce and continue this ancient house
Love the way you brought this story back down to reality and your narrative makes sense. We’ll just have to wait and see?
Thank you for this video! As Sam has said in the past "He is the Commander we turn to when the night is dark". And that's exactly the point: Daenerys always seeks Power, in the last seasons especially by using means of ambiguous morality and becoming extremely self-centered, while Jon has always been given Power directly from the people, because he inspires them as a Leader, who has their best interests in mind.
The reason Jon should have been king was because he was not like any of the other kings before. None of the other Kings grew thinking they were a nobody and a disgrace to their family growing up hard and evolving into a warrior. Not only that but Jon fought constantly and showed leadership when all things were lost, caring for his fellowman and doing what was right even when it got him killed (how many Kings can say that). Jon Snow grew into somebody who didn’t want to be king or hold any power usually this means that they are the best kind of leader even the Unic mentioned that to Tyrion. Jon also always wanted to unify very different groups to a common purpose no matter how different they were from each other seeking peace rather than war which made him the first person to unify the wildlings to the north. We also are going to mention that he was also a Targaryen making him a heir to the throne and the fact that he saved all of the kingdoms basically by his leadership slaying the undead that would have killed everyone. None of the other kings or options had the type of failure, resolve, hardship, and growth that Jon had to go through and the molding of all this surely shows that Jon Snow should have became king at the end not some three eyed raven crippled kid.
That was such an amazing video! I had similar thoughts about Jon Snow's journey and fate and the similarities between him, Aragorn and Simba and i'm really glad someone could put them into words and images.
(btw you did a really great job separating Jon and Dany's King archetype from 8:30 to 10:18 )
(Gosh that line at 11:20 "he's the realm's dream of a Spring in the cold winds of Winter", keep doing what ya doing my dude)
He is the prince that was promised, and his is the Song of Ice and Fire
Nope, Dany and him are both the prince that was promised. She is the fire and he is the ice.
@@chca5862 No you are wrong. He is the (son)g of fire rhagar and ice lyanna. Dany is Nissa nissa. A sword will go in her heart
TheChosen2030 Jon doesn’t meet all of the requirements for Azor Ahai in the books (like waking dragons from stone) so he can’t be.
@@TheChosen2030 Nope you are wrong.
@@chca5862 "Aegon. What better name for a king.He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire" Rhaegar's eyes met Daenerys's when he said that. Jon isn't just ice, he is both.
Bro I love you're insight, but honestly, at this point... We are diving to deep into this. We just learned that D&D aren't willing to put in the work. GOT has become a novela full of drama and no action. The balance is no longer there.
Benioff and Weiss have talked about one of the only reasons they were allowed to adapt GRRM's books was because they weren't trying to cram the ASOIAF books in to a typical narrative of a main protagonist and antagonist. That's what the movie networks wanted to do. Benioff and Weiss, allegedly, saw the beauty of the moral ambiguity and lack of alliance to any specific character. GRRM wanted battles between two real groups of people, not caricatures of pure good and pure evil.
This doesn't mean that your theory is wrong. It does fit the typical story structure very well and it would make since. However, since the creators of the books and show have claimed at the very least to try and go against convention, I would be slow to assume the ending.
Of course, the question is whether or not they've actually been executing the show in that way for the last couple of seasons. That's up to you to decide.
Great video, Thomas & Lars! Thanks for making it.
I think they're still running with the subversive narrative, think: Bronn, Dany potentially turning against Jon etc. Again, George also wantes a bittersweet ending reflecting LotR, so you can still have a lot of messed up things happening and also finish the traditional arc in some way or form. The question is, wherher a mix of both will make for a powerful ending, we'll have to see. - Thomas
Storytellers I think the subversion comes with having dual protagonists here, where one mirrors/shadows the other and becomes the contagonist or even antagonist. It is quite unique and unexpected. But Jon will be King one way or another. No doubt about that. He fits the savior-king archetype to a tee
I cant think of a better ending for game of thrones than the people getting fed up with the decade of constant civil war and fuckery from the nobles that they just revolt and nobody gets the iron throne because they instal a republic
Or, since the White Walkers are a metaphor for climate change, what actually happens is that humans are unable to work together and are all wiped out by the threat they face. The thrones, the petty power struggles, nothing matters at the end.
@@blastermaster5009 The white walkers are not a metaphor for climate change lmao
@@matthewherr1588 Except it is, moron. George RR Martin essentially said as much himself.
www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a23863674/george-rr-martin-game-of-thrones-politics-trump-climate-change/
@@matthewherr1588 Here's an excerpt:
“There is-in a very broad sense-a certain parallel there,” Martin told the New York Times. “The people in Westeros are fighting their individual battles over power and status and wealth. And those are so distracting them that they’re ignoring the threat of ‘winter is coming,’ which has the potential to destroy all of them and to destroy their world.”
Hmmm, maybe someone needs to learn how to use Google before they before they open their trap, lmfao.
@@blastermaster5009 What a fucking moron. I know about the NYT interview. He said you can make certain parallels. The white walkers were not written as a metaphor for climate change. It was a leading question and the article you shared was a clickbait tabloid piece from esquire. Learn to develop some critical thinking and reading comprehension before you open your trap, smart guy
When I read the first book and while reading the first line about Jon, I knew he is the hero. I still believe he will be the king.
Game of Thrones: subversive
Song of Ice and Fire: traditional
It’s as though our political struggles and drama are just a distraction from the divine order and the story of life itself.
I don’t think there will be an iron throne at the end. I think that’s a major theme in this last season
Jon has always been elected to office, first Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, then King of the North by the Northern Lords, if Jon does end up with the Iron Throne he may refuse it if not elected or as Dany has said " Break the wheel" which perhaps is foreshadowing the Iron Throne will be destroyed and new elected leaders will rule the Seven Kingdoms. Whatever happens I am sure the show will keep us guessing to the end. Happy Easter everyone!
George should make Jon king of Westeros Dany Queen of Essos. Jon rules directly over the Riverlands the storm lands and the Westerlands. Dany rules over the slave cities.
Everyone is so into the UNEXPECTED that it’s clouding the better judgement. Yes Game of Thrones has killed off main characters, that doesn’t mean there can’t be a logical conclusion to all of this- it’s annoying how everyone is like GHOST will sit on the iron throne!🤣 It could be Jon- I’m honestly seeing Jon as the most UNEXPECTED choice because everyone expects it so they deny it- Come on- Podrick?? REALLY!! Truthfully everyone is going to die...The land will lay waste for thousands of years then someone will come along and find the old books and turn it into a show, selling it as a fantasy! 🤣
When the snow falls and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives.
John snow is a dead man.
I wonder if the NK is looking for someone to be the next NK. Killing the Umber boy with the symbol around him, of the NK's creation. They kept mentioning Jon taking a knife to the heart for his people in season 7. The 'King in the North'. The NK keeps staring at him without killing him. And his parentage may play a role.
@@jonathanblaze1648 that's what made me think cerceis unborn child was the one.
I love that you're uses these archetypes for this video. It's a great book
Did you intentionally pronounce Aragorn as Aragon so if you're wrong you can claim you meant someone else?
Jon snow is inspired by Aragon from the Lord of the rings share a similarities because GRRM still takes his lessons from JRRTOIKEN.
He is Henry the 7th, from the War of the Roses, the unlikely candidate, coming from both Lancaster and York ancestry.. Henry the 7th was a horrible king in his late years, though... Paranoic...
@@AKdsad100 I think Dany's storyline is kinda like that king Henry the 7th. Martin probably used his story as a basis for Dany's journey. Question do you know about that his son was Henry the 8th and he had six wifes.
@@Brandonhayhew Well I do...
@@Brandonhayhew
I think bigger parallels can be drawn from a bit later in history, still from the Tudor dynasty though:
Dany is more Mary Stuart, Queen of Scots= Father/King killed when young, forced into exile as a baby, returned with a claim to the throne, will probably have an heir with a "relative" who isn't her 1st husband, just like Mary did with Darnley, in this case Jon, and she'll later murder him (and with the storyline in the series Dany realy might do that, when she finds out he's the rightful heir to the throne I don't really see her eagerly bending the knee after everything)
Cersei has paralles with Mary I = first reigning queen, murders people, hated by her subjects, incompetent ruler, fake pregnancy/tumor, her "husband" has an armada of ships and the union is merely political and nothing else.
Sansa with Elisabeth I = being a prisoner of Cersei just like Elisabeth was Mary's because she saw her as a "threat", used as a pawn for most of her early life, unlikely candidate for the throne, extremely smart
So if you ask me, if the parallels are to be believed, in the end Sansa will take the throne and rule alone, as Elisabeth did, and she will rule extremely well, then naming Jon and Dany's son as heir, just as Elisabeth named Mary Stuart's son as heir. But that does mean that Jon might get murdered by Dany and she will probably lose her head after some years in custody. But Martin mixed a lot of things in his fiction, so who knows how this will play out :)
@@Zarturael I also have a gut feeling Sansa will take the throne, but haven't tried to follow any historical parallels.
Great video! The protagonist is always the hero against the main conflict. Jon's conflict is with the White Walkers--a problem developed in the opening scene of the series. Danaerys only wanted the thrown until the end of last season. Jon may not take the throne, but his path is the most objective out of everyone else's.
Aragon: Region of western Spain
Eragon: Farm boy with a pet lizard
Aragorn: Isildur's heir
You have no idea how this break down mirrors my life in many ways at the moment. I am a King with no counsel, who has to rely on God, ancestors, myself, history, literature, media, and seers from to time to overcome obstacles. I thank you immensely for this. I wish your channel and everything you do in this life, eternal glory.
"...Dream of Spring in the cold Winds of Winter..." Nice one there.
This is VERY CONVINCING!........
I'm surprised how similar Aragorn's and Jon's storylines appear to be.
If you think Jon has a happy ending.. yoooouuu haven't been paying attention.. lol.
He's literally already dead. There's no way he survives.
Jon will marry an elf confirmed
I've been saying this since literally the first episode. It's why The Red Wedding didn't really effect me. It seemed necessary since OBVIOUSLY, it was going to be Jon and not Robb.
There's some other things. Jon and Dany both consummate a marriage (in Jon's case not as literally) with someone outside the world of Westeros. For Dany, she marries into a culture closest to nature (collectivism, winning through brute strength, etc). For Jon, he "marries" into a culture most identified with man (the free folk who value individual freedom to excess). These two both then return to the world bringing inside the walls the unavoidable change in with them.
But Dany is a force of nature bringing balance back by imposing repercussions. This makes her VERY CLOSE to the White Walkers themselves. It's necessary and has done a lot of good (freeing slaves,etc) Jon, though, is a CIVILIZING force. His path is of incorporation, not of forceful response. This means a confrontation between the two is inevitable. It, again, will be Jon who is the hero. He will likely die in a way that unifies this force of nature embodied by Dany with the world of Westeros.
Excellent points! I hadn't thought of the symbolism of their marriages but it makes complete sense.
And yes, I don't see Jon surviving or staying in Westeros when all is said and done. He will undoubtedly fulfill his journey though.
@@storytellers1 The book series is called "A Song of Ice and Fire". To me, that is Jon Snow himself AND the two forces he is trying to unify. Ice being crystallization and death, the unavoidable end of all things. Fire being the constant (and often times violent) source of renewal and rebirth. They are yin and yang.
Jon is the character that understands this the best. He is both the quickest to accept the reality of the White Walkers AND the quickest to understand that the only way to survive is through a voluntary rebirth and renewal. He constantly does this throughout the show. Dany does TOO, but she is constantly forcing the rest of the world to do this whereas Jon takes it on himself and, in doing so, asks of others to do for themselves. Jon doesn't have dragons to force change, he has to appeal to people to change.
Right now, he and the dragons are on the same side because this willingness of the people to voluntarily change. But Jon is only HALF Targaryan, he is also half Stark. He knows that the one force needs the other and vice versa. Dany does not seem to get this, and that makes perfect sense.
I come off as anti-Dany, but I'm not. She's just vital a part of this story as Jon. When she talked of breaking the wheel, it excited me. It wasn't until years later that I realized that a world without wheels (absolute return to the chaos of nature) lacks an utility or upward movement. Sometimes the wheels need to be changed. Dany is the force that puncturesa hole in the tires you knew that you needed to change long ago. But without the return to an upward movement (civilization, away from and above the natural world), there is no forward progression. Jon is literally born as the embodiment of this constant struggle. He is the song of fire and ice. His inner struggle is EXACTLY what Westeros is enduring.
Deanerys does not know mercy. I remember a scene were a crowd of slave were literally chanting mercy for someone and she did not even seem to hear them.
math2222322 Dany values justice above mercy. She killed that former slave because he had murdered a man waiting for a trial, and she needed to be fair between the former slaves and the former masters.
@@dominiccurtis1951 doesn't change all the horrible things she did.
Janos slynt was crying for mercy too
@@Hussen-g2g you did not get what i was saying. She did not even seem to comprehend the word. Plus, she punishes a slave... who did the exact same thing she did with the masters.
Dominic Curtis wrong, she doesnt care about justice either, she cares more about instilling fear, and sending a message.
Better than people who were saying Sansa, or Tyrion, or Bran, or Little Finger (before he sentenced to death by slitting). Jon (in the show anyways) and Dany at least have a blood claim which is most important to establishing a monarchy, unlike any of the aforementioned. Primogeniture exists for a reason.
A small post i made on reddit a while ago, but it definitely compliments this video well
3 reasons why jon SHOULD be the saviour of the story rather than Dany.
This argument is not about why jon is better than everyone else for the role of saviour, this is just about why he deserves it more than dany. You can make arguments for other people but this is about jon over dany. This is also just my opinion. Also this isn't a argument in favour of jon being Azor Ahai or anything like that, these reasons apply wether he is or isn't Azor Ahai reborn.
1 jon has spent nearly the whole series preparing for the battle with the others
Since jon made it to castle black it didnt take long for him to encounter a Wight. He was the first character in the book series to face of against and kill a thrall of the others. Since his return to castle black from his time with the wildlings his goals have been dead set on preparing the defense of the realm against the others. He brings the wildlings into the realm, brings some into the nights watch, orders the rehabilitation of the other castles along the wall and even gets a loan from the iron bank to keep his men and the wildlings well provisioned, he is and has been doing everything in his power to prepare for the coming battle for the dawn. Defending the realm from the others is so important to him that he sent his best friend away to oldtown just to find any information he can, however small, on how to beat the others, he put aside his prejudice for the wildlings, he treated them like human beings knowing it would make his brothers hate him, he rejected the lordship of winterfell and the chance to avenge his family because defending the realm from the others and keeping his vows was more important to him. Dany on the other hand hasn't even heard about the others and is solely focused on getting herself onto the Iron throne (after she fixes Mereen up)
2 jon isn't chasing prophecy
There's a lot of characters in the story who have prophetic dreams and visions etc. Pretty much all the ones that do, i.e mel, dany, aemon and so on spend a huge amount of their time trying to understand their dreams/visions and thus try to bring them into fruition or stop them from happening. This almost always goes sideways, the actions some take to stop a prophecy from being fulfilled often end up being the actions that cause them to happen. Those that try to make them happen often end up misinterpreting the signs and cause something worse to happen, melisandre is a prime example of this. Jon does experience propthetic dreams/visions occasionally like the dream about the crypts and him fighting the undead with lightbringer but unlike everyone else with prophetic dreams, jon is the only one who rarely thinks about them and never thinks to act on them at all. Fulfilling and/or subverting a prophecy is so often a major mistake for those who try to do so, but since jon seemingly has no care about prophecies it gives him an unbiased view of the situation. He isn't trying to defeat the others to fulfil some prophecy or to please some God(s) or because he thinks its his destiny and/or birth right. Hes doing it to keep the realm safe, to him its as simple as fighting for survival. To protect mankind, because he genuinely cares about its survival. Dany on the other hand spends a ton of time dwelling on the things she dreams about or is told about by Quaith. She's constantly questioning what her destiny is and what she must do to reach it.
3 he doesn't expect to gain anything.
Unlike Dany who is doing all the things she's doing in the hopes that it will help her rule the seven kingdoms, (not saying shes a bad person, shes not. For now at least) jon at least in his mind knows he will probably gain nothing from his potential victory against the others. What I mean is that he has no hopes of being the king of the realm or the lord of the north or anything like that, he knows he'll most likely get zero recognition or credit for his actions (he hasn't got any so far, quite the opposite) but he's doing all he can anyway! Danys whole motivation is to rule westeros because she thinks its her destiny/birthright wheras jons motivation is to protect humanity because. Which one of those is truly worthy of being seen as a hero?
Conclusion
I dont know what GRRM is planning, maybe jon is the saviour maybe its dany, maybe its both or maybe its neither of them. I feel like a lot of people believe dany is Azor Ahai reborn and that shes going to swoop in and save the day and maybe she will. But some people really underestimate Jons character. Hes one of the only characters in the entire story that isnt chasing power, influence, money, lands, titles or even respect. His only goal is to protect humanity from the coming storm. The whole R+L=J thing and the Azor Ahai reborn prophecy and the Bastard who's secretly the heir trope isn't' why Jon should be the Hero of the story, because even without these factors, he already is a Hero its his character, morals, perseverance and will that make him a Hero. Even if jon isn't GRRM's planned saviour, to me at least there's no other character that deserves it more.
Your second point about chasing prophecy is my main reason why I think Bran should have died in S08E03 and the whole religious dimension of the world should have come to an end. So much of the misery and suffering in this world is the direct result of people trying to bring prophecies to fruition, with their attempts constantly "going sideways" Greek-irony style. I feel like the ending of GoT should have ushered in a new enlightenment era, one not so capriciously obsessed with magical thinking. Instead, they basically elected the Pope and installed a theocracy...
We’ll said! You deserved more likes. It seems that people don’t like to read a long comment.
The whole story has been a build up of who will sit on the throne. Everyone who wants the throne have allowed corruption, cold blooded murder, chaos or any other vile action to help their selfish agendas. The reason why I believe Jon deserves the throne is because he doesn't want it. He believes he's not worthy because his entire life he believed he was nothing but a bastard. Unlike Dany, he never allowed to be blinded by power. He isn't prideful like the other characters. The only prideful act he's remotely seem to have done was not bend a knee for Dany. Even then he did it because he knew the people in the north won't accept her as queen. Jon has always thought about his people. Dany and Cersei only focus on the power and recognition of title. They don't deserve to rule. Jon deserves it because he's a selfish man with a big heart, who was raised and taught honour by a great man, with only his people in mind.
I don’t think anyone will get the throne. That’s how it will be subversive
This channel deserve a million subs!
Your vocabulary and syntax is incredible.
All of this is the precise reason why he will be the last ones to die.
Jon is the actual hero of got every storyline of got was at last pointing to jon snow
And he is the character who is the centerpiece of majority of big scenes of got
He will be King. The Ice King. He will sacrifice himself because that's who he is. Who he has always been. Doing what needs do be done regardless.
Just Imagine, Jon Snow on the Iron throne and Tyrion Lannister as his hand
This would have been a dream ....
Mekes me wonder if the Night King could fit the bill if he was a protagonist.
Danerys was given her dragons, and it's only because of that, she was able to conquer. Jon, on the other hand, earned everything he has. He fought and climbed up the ranks of the Night's Watch. He saved wildlings; knowing that he would be hated for it. He is truthful, brave and has EARNED everything he has.
Danerys was handed her Dragon eggs.
For THAT reason.....and that reason only - Jon deserves to be the King of.................the North. He' as Northern as you can get. Fu** the Iron Throne.......
King in the North sounds way better.
And start a new house named, wait for it... Starkarien😂
Never before I have ever more liked a Games Of Thrones review video like this one !! great job bro you just earn a sbscriber...
Who's Jon Snow, I only know Aegon Targayren
This comparison/contrast between Jon and Dany is so well done. It's also why Jon will destroy the Iron Throne and will only "rule" in the sense of bringing the 7 kingdoms together in a new form of government where each one has influence in what goes on within the realm. Perhaps it'll be a governing council. Dany is going to have to die in some way too, because she'll never relinquish power.
great video man!, you speak clearly, talk at a good pace and you sound relaxed when you talk unlike some of the shouting youtubers haha. I think your points are very valid and hope johns arc is satisfying at the least. i think he might be the night king and on the throne lol. subbed!
Dany is a megalomaniac whose main motivation is to rule, while Jon is the reluctant hero who only wants to save people.
I never got pass Season 4 of this show bcos I could never quite figure out where the story was going. It always seemed like it was meandering but after watching this i think i finally understand what this entire show is about and why its so good. Im going go watch it again. And I completely agree, Jon Snow is probably the right King but whether he accepts that I'm not so sure. This was brilliant!!!
What in the world season 4 is the best season! Lol
My theory --
Dany will die ("she never wanted to leave") while giving birth to Jon's son (".... when your womb quickens and you give birth to a living son, your Sun-And-Stars will return")..
Jon will take the Iron Throne -- out of devotion to Dany, combined with duty ("what is duty when compared to holding a newborn son?"..... "I fought, I lost, and now I rest -- but you Jon Snow, you'll be fighting their wars for the rest of your days").
Interesting theory! 😎
this will be so weird to watch if jon doesnt take the throne. if i have to choose, jon or sansa would make a fair king/queen. i love daenerys but lets be honest, she has a little crazy in her.
Why do I feel like I’m the only fan that supports Dany’s right to the Iron throne? Everyone seems to hate her so much, they call her a tyrant (when Cersei, Joffrey, and Robert) have done far worse than she ever did. She’s not perfect because she’s human. She gets impatient just like anybody. Cut my woman some slack please.
Heir to the throne. Jon Snow deserves it all!
Why Jon Snow will not be King,
The answer is simple because he's prescisely the one clearly worthy to be King
Just like how everybody thought he is Azor ahai or become the ultimate hero at the Battle of Winterfell we saw him instead struggling and almost resigned.
The show is known for going away from the convenient and surprise us with something unusual.
so who then? I suspect its gonna be Gendry
I still have a bet on Stannis
Jon was what led the battle and brought Westeros together to fight the army of the dead. Without him it wouldn’t have happened so in a way he still fits azor ahai
@@libragoddess5990 maybe but what's important now is the Battle of Winterfell was won Night King is broken up into pieces of Ice and it was awesome.
I still think Gendry might end up King. Its possible.
@@Tevion1121 Didn't Stanis die?
Bryan Neil Librando Well maybe. Brienne was about to kill him but the screen went black and we never saw what happened. He’s probably dead but after this episode my hopes are up again xD
I just love Jon so much!
The leaks that dropped over a year ago have already confirmed... {SPOILERS AHEAD}
Jon kills Dany, Bran becomes King, Jon takes the black.The same leaks already correctly predicted Euron killing Rhaegal, Jaime being captured and set free by Tyrion, Dany going Mad Queen when she hears the bells, and a whole bunch of other stuff.
Daenerys HAS to be impervious to fire because she'll end up killing herself with all that hotness.
This guy just perfectly conveyed what every Jon supporter wnated to say against Danaerys and Sansa supporter.
Jon Snow would be too obvious. Like Aragorn in LOTR but without a queen beside him because Dany will die. Nah, I think that the civilisation of Westeros will finally evolve out of monarchy.
I was just thinking the other day how this story parallels Aragorns.
I think that's definitely possible, maybe likely. That still doesn't rule out that Jon will finish his king's journey story. He can finish the journey and then step down as king and do away with the system entirely
@@storytellers1 They said the show will have a bittersweet ending. I think that your theory is way more bittersweet than mine, and a satisfying closure aswell.
I'm wondering if they have ever focused on the people as possible rulers. To introduce someone, a stranger at that now, at the end of it all would seem like a cop-out. To me at least.....
thanoszev the show ending in a democracy would be the worst ending possible, I love democracy but in the real world, in GOT I want a monarchy
That ending was beautifully worded.
I think that's the very reason he won't end up as King
It fits too perfectly for GRRM to give us that ending
I disagree. We just have to look on the last seasons to see that GoT is now taking the path of classic fantasy stories.
@@augustin5611 yes but that is because the books for these seasons haven't been written yet. I am sure that if Martin finishes the books they will not take the path of classic fantasy stories
GRRM stopped advising the writers of the series since season 5 onwards. He doesnt like where the show makers have taken this story.
GRRM still told D&D the end to GOT, but it was up to them as to how they got there. They won't change who ends up on the Iron Throne, or how the story ends
There needs to be a scene with Jon standing next to both Rhaegal and Ghost
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Add some war elephants, too. Oh wait...
I enjoy your videos.
Thanks.
Jon is the wartime leader - the Churchill of Westeros. But his services won't be required after the war.
Your only real evidence that he will remain king is that his story parallels Aragorn. But we know how much George likes to subvert expectations.
I like your analysis. Jon still has to hang the oathbreaking Lord Glover. But that can wait a couple of episodes. There are a lot of entitled characters in the story, Jon is not one of them.
The premise of this video is wrong. GRRM has often criticized Tolkien for using the trope of a good man makes a good king in Aragon's story arc. GRRM takes inspiration more from actual history than from other fantasies and myths.
Jon doesn’t fit that good man trope absolutely. He is deeply flawed, and selfish in his own way. Particularly when it comes to who he loves. However in the end he won’t put his love for Dany before the needs of his people.
Sansa will sit on the iron throne.
Game of Thrones isn't meant to be subversive. It's meant to be real; it's meant to have real people and acknowledge the morbid reality of death. It being subversive is just a bi-product of the realism.
He couldn't even rule over the Night's Watch and basic sheeple want him to be king lol
The night’s watch was so short sighted and scared of progress that it led them to betray and kill their commander and king. Who were the “sheeple”?
you know what you said is what ive been saying since season 6 . jon is the true king that westros needs jon has the heart of a king . he is very humble he has a kind heart and most of all he shows mercy . unlike dany she has many of things that is not what makes a great ruler . she enjoys killing . she shows no mercy and has that im higher then you thing . yet she has not been crowned .i think she will sure enuff become her father before the finale and jon will end up being the one to end her ....sadly and that the whole thing martin was saying about a bitter sweet ending awesome video man!!
Dude, Jon's going to die. Melisandre foreshadowed that in Season 6, "Maybe he just brought you back to die again."
Jon is going to die again. He is NOT Aragorn, but closer to King Arthur than Aragorn or any other high fantasy He Who Would Be King. FYI, Arthur dies while fighting Mordred, his own bastard son by Arthur's own half-sister, Morgana. Incest is BAD in Game of Thrones. Nothing good has come of it, and nothing good ever will, because nothing good has come of incest in our own world of which the World of Ice and Fire is a reflection. If Dany and Jon have a kid, it will be raised in a whole new world where he/she has no hereditary claim on anything but their own life. In this show, this can be kind of poetic, especially if the kid is a bastard (something Jon has always feared he might wrought), but is born into a world where being a bastard doesn't matter -- as a bastard myself (parents weren't married; raised by my dad), this would be really quite beautiful.
Everyone needs to let go of the Iron Throne. It's a really shitty thing and needs to be burned down. Down to the ground.
Yeah I actually think he will die in a self-sacrifice in which he redeems the realm. So he'll finish the symbolic king's journey. If he does survive he'll reecind his rule.
Jon Snow can't be King just for one reason, he don't care about the power, his only purpose are the White Walkers. If Jon sit on the iron throne at the end it will be the worst ending of the series.
Wouldn't that make him the best candidate for the throne? A good king isn't supposed to identify with being a king. He merely embodies the role for the good of his realm, but remains emotionally detached from its power.
Anyone ending up on Iron Throne would be a cheap and insincere ending to this show. It’s not what they’ve been building towards
All hail Jon Snow, the true king of the seven realms and the prince that was promised. Dany is unworthy of ruling the Iron throne
Jon Snow does not need the iron throne the iron throne needs Jon Snow
Sorry man, you lost me as soon as you mispronounced Aragorn.
That's because Martin doesnt just kill for shock value...you always follow tropes.