The Objectivity Illusion | Lee Ross | TEDxSonomaCounty
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
- Lee Ross' explains his research into objectivity in this compelling talk.
Lee Ross, a professor of psychology at Stanford University since 1969, teaches courses in the application of social psychology to bargaining, negotiation, conflict resolution, and broader public policy issues. He is a co-founder of the Stanford Center on Conflict and Negotiation and the coauthor of the books Human Inference and The Person and Situation, as well as nearly one hundred journal articles and book chapters.
This talk was given at a TEDx event using the TED conference format but independently organized by a local community. Learn more at ted.com/tedx
Who else thought at the beginning that he only had one arm?!? 🤔
Anyway, great talk!! I loved it!!
LOL.
Lee > Great > Thank you for your intelligence
The problem here is:
1. saying that objectivity is an illusion is either a) an objective claim; or b) a subjective claim
If a. then the statement itself is put under question as a possible illusion which suggests that objectivity might infact exist
If b. then the statement is one based on feelings, and so suggests that objectivity exists for one person and not for the other depending on how they feel; which is absurd.
So due to the absurdity of it being b. that leads us to believe that out of the two it must be a. but then if it is an objective claim, how can the statement possible state that it is true that objectivity is an illusion, when it relies on objectivity for its validity?
Therefore, the statement must be false, and the correct conclusion is that objectivity is real.
But it must be pointed out that just because objectivity exists, that does not mean that every time we perceive something as objective that it makes it so. As Mr Ross points out we are limited and fallible beings liable to mistakes, and so it stands to reason that sometimes we may be mislead regards to the validity of certain statements or claims.
I would say that practically everything is subjective unless it is proven as a law. For instance. cold or hot differ from entity to entity, however one cannot really argue with the law of kinetic energy.
Objectivity it's just a subjective concept in the mind.... by logic every experience we have is a subjective experience.
The way I see it is that since we are all subjects and cannot get out of our minds and subjective experiences, we cannot truly ever be sure that anything exists objectively, ie that "object" exists independently of our observations. For this reason I don't think of things like facts (or objects or observations that are the same to all observers) as "objective facts" but as "intersubjective", meaning that they are the same to all observers, but each observer is a subject.
I think intersubjective consensus is the best we can do given that we cannot escape our own subjectivity to really verify objectivity. Cheers :)
PS: this is not an objective claim but an intetsubjective one as I think all observers experience the world subjectively, thus our ideas of the world around is, even those we all experience as the same, cannot be truly proven to be objective. We have only the consensus of many subjects :)
I don't believe that the issue is the reality of absolutes, but rather our inability to fully grasp them, due to the limitations of our perspectives, which are subjective in nature. We are a part of the framework of reality that we wish to comprehend-a reality that perhaps may be only understood by someone that is on the outside, looking in, or dear I say, a reality that may only be objectively understood by its creator.
@@dahanster5578 then we're prisoners in The Matrix.
"Objective" is experienced "Subjectively", therefore "Objective Subjectivity" & Intersubjectivity as distinct from "Subjective Subjectivity"
Exactly
These are Entry level philosophy
Even the narratives that our consciousness automatically forms is (at least fairly) subjective-- and actively shaped by what we focus on. Doesn't mean the external world isn't real, but it means it's sure prone to error, especially with memory and when stressed. Mainly helps when we leave our biases at the door when delving into memory, and even then, the deep subconscious does want to believe certain not perfectly rational things to appease &/or protect us, outside of our usual accessible consciousness of course (to those who don't "believe in" the subconscious/unconscious mind, then how do you explain feelings? Reacting to danger instantaneously without actively thinking about it? There are most definitely loads of automatic thought processes that have evolved to protect us that, at least under natural environmental conditions where our species evolved, is smarter than our conscious self)
what kind of point of view would meet the requirements for truly objectivity? Perhaps someone that can experience things as the sum of all things experience them in this universe? Maybe one that comes from a different universe?
i dont know but im just saying...if the conditions that would have to be met to truly find objectivity are so outworldly...its interesting
In my humble opinion, it is perhaps impossible for us to fully grasp the realities of a universe which we are an integral part of and subjected to. I would argue that such objective enlightenment is reserved for the potential designer(s) of the universe who has determined its laws and nature and hence has an objective understanding of its functions. If such an intelligence does not exist, perhaps the universe may never truly be objectively understood.
It is my opinion that this guy should read children's books out loud.
Things exist which are objective. They simply cannot be described objectively by subjective beings.
On the one hand I get it because all the religions philosophies etc of the world are unsatisfying to me. On the other, how exactly does one have a subjective experience without objective qualities? If I have a crazy dream at night it's completely made up in my head. But something has to happen in the dream as a fact or else there is no dream to speak of.
Love the speech!
Loved the speech
'Because people are wrong, there is no right' - this argument, when boiled down, doesn't sound so great.
This will be me as an old man, assuming I get better at articulating my thoughts.
Not at the rate things have gone thus far.
"idiots driving slower" lol
Where/when would we all be without TIME..?
There is no time
How about 2+2 = 4?
What about it? Mathematical science is of very limited scope.
Please read about Kurt Gödel's incompleteness theorems. He actually prove that it cannot be proven that 2+2 =4. Mathematics is no longer a safe spot to talk about things that everyone agrees to be true
After all all we need is a proof :)
KLJF Somehow you’re right. I mean till now it is meaningless to relate arithmetics to “real world” (living world). You could also think of two drops of water. When they’re joined they become one bigger drop of water.
But there are still some arguments about that. I find “Gödel Escher Bach” the best book to read. And still there are some problems unsolved which you can find an answer in Gottlob Frege’s “Begriffsschrift”. You have to be very willing to know and very patient though :)
2 + 2 does not always equal 4 unless the two things you have are the same two things as the other two things.
I've found that every single person who's argued that objectivity isn't real are just using that as an excuse to be unfair and biased.
Why should we take his opinion seriously..
Ha ha. It matters to me I guess wether there is an "objective" proposition. And I think there should be. There should be something that we all agree that is false. Same as René Descartes began to think!
The ideas are based on the psychology research he's conducted. You could read his papers and see if you think the research was done well if you want to decide if you agree or not. The survey results he describes are compelling.
Should(dare not!!)...ought be better...COULD have ended with..."...and me,,my co-author, with a little more money in the pocket... ..."...perhaps🤔.. ..or.. ..😁/🙃/😉.. .. ..🤭
There is no Golden Rule. Wake up.
If you truly believe this, then you should have known you wouldn't change ANYBODY's mind. So, why did you waste your time? Am I missing the joke, or something? It didn't seem funny to me.
Lots of people get hurt, intentionally or unintentionally, as the result of our illusions. At least that seems to be the driving force in the atheistic rationalist movement. To each their own if they believe in greek gods for all I care, long as they don't force it upon the youth with their empty threats of eternal damnation and manipulation of pseudo-evidence, I'm fine (ridiculous tho, I was trying to watch a netflix documentary on near death experiences, first story example the woman said she felt her "spirit being lifted to the heavens" how are you supposed to feel consciousness without a brain anyways?? Could tell she was lying and loads more people have reported nothingness when they died and came back)
@@Dman9fp Don't know where to start. Maybe I should just say, "It might be only an opinion that that is a fact, but it's a fact that that's an opinion.". The fallacy of this guy's argument, is that he assumes that opinions can't be arrived at with objective analysis (and is therefore an illusion), and are therefore by definition "not the way things are", and that their inherent biases are invalid. But, I think we all can get a little closer to "Truth" by acknowledging the opinions and biases we all have, and not dismiss them as an illusion.
At (6:54) he says, "Nobody has ever entered into a civic discussion saying they they think they're wrong about everything and they want to be set straight.". Well, that's not true. I have, and did/do that very often. But, if he was speaking for/about himself, well, I guess that's where HIS problem lies. And, he's still trying to set us straight without asking to be set straight himself. This is one way self-deception takes root. And, that's not an illusion. It's objective.
If you think otherwise, please set me straight. I could be wrong.
@@Dman9fp okey than pls tell me how so when you hurt some part of your brain you lose memory,motoric functions,thinking,speaking and there for your Consciousness