Mmm...you haven’t watched enough trif videos have you? I thought farfa was exaggerating, until I saw trif’s banlist reaction, he said pendulum best deck about 3 times before he even saw 1 double iris magician
Or GOAT players acting like the occasional time they go against Reasoning Gate they possibly get handlooped for 5 by DMoC Delinquent Duo loops is fun and interactive
@@toadallynoodle5414 because getting a one-off out of reasoning while having another one-off in grave is a consistent 1st turn play in goat format lol feels like you lost to often against that deck. Almost every deck in the history of yugioh has some degenerate combos when you give them their 2-3 oneoffs like soulcharge, Grass or FutureFusion. The only difference ist that now you can search these cards or summon them directly from the extra deck lol
Yu-gi-oh! players: Needlefiber linkross and verte are too generic, noone wants to play against the same combos over and over again! Also yu-gi-oh! players: Archetypes ruined the game, i miss the times where every deck played the same 21 staples
Sincerely most of the cards i find unbalanced are there cause they have no restrictions. Just think about how balanced crystron would be if only it required a crystron tuner
@@casinoroyal93 yeah but the the card simply wouldn't be good at all 🤷🏾♂️. Cards that are fair and balanced don't see play for a reason, because good cards are good because they have unfair interactions
Both of things ultimately end in the same place. Not having a color system was YGO original sin. Not having colors meaning 90% of the cards are either too generic or too xenophobic.
@@noukan42 i disagree, this might be personal preference but i really like archetypes more than colors, mainly because i feel each achetype deck has their own unique flavor and playstyle while with colors you would see them share a lot more cards, i like games where each player is trying to go for a completely different wincon and thats easier to do when there arent that many staple generic(or generic for their color) cards runing around, so yeah i dont feel archetypes are too xenophobic but actually the right amount, altho again, personal preference
@@Zhyro00 the problem is not archetypes, the problem are universal cards. Pot and Black Lotus are not the most powerful cards, what break them is that they are so utterly generic that there is no reason to not use them in any deck. YGO made the problem worse whit generic extra deck cards, that not only are playable in any deck(like, the most unga bunga goat deck could still do some XYZ and Link plays just because they are this generic), but don't even require to be drawn. Over the years YGO printed decent generic cards for pretty much every role, wich makes archetype design difficult. If the in archetype boss is worse than Apollousa people won't use it, because they can make Apollousa just as easily. The banlist can only help to an exstent, because they can't exactly ban every single good R4NK. Colors mitigate this while leaving archetypes as a possible gameplay option. Lacks of colors and of set rotation are at the same time YGO greatest assets and greatest flaws
I think generic cards hurt archetypes way more than the reverse. 'Oh cool, you're deck can make a really cool card that works with your archetype and has very fair limits to it... but you could just play Borreload Savage/Crystal Wing/Dragoon//Infinity/Borrelsword/Avaramax/Appolousa/ANY CARD that can do your thing better'. This makes archetypes less about overall monster and gimmick design and more about what deck can shit out as many generic monsters as possible and maybe their own monster if they HAVE to. Blackwings, the rank 4 link deck that can also make Borrel Savage cus tuners... oh and they have Full Armour master which they make sometimes too. Any dragon deck: Imma just become dragon link really quick. Hell, Dragunity makes almost anything over their own boss monsters because why would they?! Pendulums: This is a mechanic, not an archetype. But I forget others exist except Dinomist because it was bad at making generic things other than Infinity This is excluding archetypes that are just bad because they're too restrictive and limit you to their own cards, which most other decks could probably make better but never bother trying because why would they when they have generic kings. I'm not saying all generic cards are bad or that archetypes can't be disgusting by themselves (thunder dragons), just that generic boss monsters are a huge problem. So yeah, Crystron Needlefiber should have taken a crystron tuner
Reminds me of certain youtube channels that showcase decks. They all do the same plays and try to end with the same board, but with varying degrees of consistency.
Exactly, and in regards to dragunity deck was literally made to synchro climb into other dragons, the official Konami strategy was to vaj, into stardust. Gae Dearg, Vaj and Barcha all just go into generic dragon synchros and links. They after so many years, just got 2 boss monster in the form of ascalon and areadbhair. However. Ascalon is more of a turn 2+ card that you shouldn't end on. And Areadbhair is just level 10 crystal wing, when it comes to utilization. Its the first Archtype card they can end on. They need to make cards less generic, but that's bad for business, so they won't. However, it makes perfect sense when needle fiber or Electrumite are generic, its because they aren't meant to improve their own archtype but to help the mechanics that were hurt by links. However needle fiber needed to not be able to linked away first turn and Electrumite didn't need to net you so much advantage off one card.
@@jdamourep Dragunity has had several boss monsters over the years, and the fact that there's so many level 8 generic dragon synchros is a whole other issue. But it is important to note that an archetype can change it's game plan and style, such as how Blue-Eyes went from fusion to synchro to ritual. Dragunity being designed with all of their important cards to go into a different monster entirely is weird but understandable card design and I don't mind it as much as other cards because it's still a large dragon monster they had to put resources into. That, however is not even what they do anymore since Dragunity is moreso an engine nowadays. Also, the structure deck that gave them a lot of support had a very different intended purpose that was ignored because of the generic toolbox nature of Dragunity. If anything, Dragunity intending to be used as a way to summon big generic boss monsters before anything only proves my point that archetypes are being designed to do that rather than anything themselves As for CRYSTRON Needlefiber and METALFOES Electrumite, there was no need to make either card part of an already existing archetype and then make them generic. Even ignoring the hindsight of how busted they are and pretending that they were designed to be used for their specific purpose of being synchro and pendulum support, it's hard to justify their existence as part of an archetype or, again, why any deck would run any link two over them if they could make them. The best example being the link 2 junk monster that has nothing on needlefiber despite having more restrictions as an archetype card. I'm fine with generic cards that help out, but the problem is that generic cards are just better than their archetype restricted counterparts and none of the examples you brought up dispute this as fact.
Archetypes are honestly one of the main reasons why i love this game. Their very own consistent style of artwork on every card that also tells a little tale/lore about themselves while occaisonally involving other archetypes too is highly appealing for some reason. I just wish some of them wouldn't swat the decks of others and function as a broken mechanic to declare war to pakistan by shitting out all the generic negates this game has to offer. Why Noodlefieber has to be a degenrate combo enabler in every deck is still beyond me. Anyway, Digimon
Like Farfa(?) said last year/couple years ago(?), extra deck cards that able to access main deck will certainly enable degenerate combo e.g. Summon Sorc, Electrumite, M-X-Saber, Broadbull, Ib Justiciar, Dark Matter (send 3 as COST btw). Next in line is Halqifibrax & Isolde
@@m.rasyidhibatullah7775 well the problem aren't the archetype cards like noodle, BUT the decision of komoney to make them generic by letting them get summoned by every card. Verde summoned not by "2 effect monsters" but "2 effect monsters including at least 1 'predaplant' monster" or noodle not summoned by "2 monsters including at least 1 tuner" but "2 monsters, including at least 1 tuner and 1 'crystron' monster" would make them less problematic. its not the fault of the archetype but the fault of konami in making them so easy to summon. Mermaid was banned. Why? Ningirsu and crescendo out of 2 monsters. Verde: dragoon out of 2 monsters. Why banning that card if this card makes the same (with less garnets)
Archetypes bring way more personality to the game with how their theme is represented in gameplay and give players decks they can more naturally gravitate towards. Like what would the game even look like now if they werent introduced ?
I much prefer when decks and archetypes are built and played around themselves rather than individual cards being overwhelmingly powerful to the point that they get splashed in any and every deck, stripping them of all individuality from the other archetypes.
These recent videos are some of my favourite content from Farfa. I love how he discusses (with satire) both sides of arguments that have persisted since the beginning of Yu-Gi-Oh!
goat format is overrated. Lmfao its like what it is right now. The top decks are using the same engine or something similiar and their end boards are almost identical. Everyones gonna put in the damn metamorphasis in their deck with reliquished and scapegoat. OH BUT WAIT I GOT THE MONARCH CARD IN IT, and the guy next to him, WELL I GOT GRAVEKEEPER SPY IN MINE! fucking boring as fuck. And then you got the ftk shit or the burn. Right thats a great format. The only difference now is that the game ends quickly while the allure of Goat supposedly is the resource management and the grind game. Its not that great. its like that chess club at school with a few kids back in the day.
@@xDukii nah. There are a lot of different decks you can play in goat. The problem is that most people just play THE standard goat control list and that's why a lot of people think goat format has card pool of 30 relevant cards only lol If you compare a GoatControl to TD Chaos to Reasoning Gate to Gravekeeper to Zombie to AntiMetaWarrior to Burn to PACMAN etc you see quite some variety. It is not like modern yugioh has more to offer in terms of variety with Linkross/Needlefiber/Dragoon combos slapped into 50% of all decks. I just think that it is rather the slow pace of the format that makes people do not like goat format than a less archetype pronounced or "diverse" metagame.
@@xDukii The way I see this, the problem lies in people approaching GOAT competitively. I think the intended point was for people to actually have fun and build decks based on a theme they like etc, much like the original series.
The only real gripe with archtypes I have is just buying a pack and looking through the cards and not being able to see the potential of like any card in the pack unless I go look at the full set list online etc. Haven't played the game in years but any time I buy a pack for fun I'm just confused and discouraged.
I mostly disagree. Sure it's lame when a deck can be built by just including all cards with "x" in its name. But deckbuilding back in the day was a matter of shoving in as many broken 1 ofs as possible. Not much better. And now a days some archetypes are splashable and work well together, and it's cool when that happens.
Archetypes promote diversity and i love em. Each one just has its own identity and can be tweaked to suit the player. I also like to appreciate the lore in each one and love it when my cards are in uniform.
Archetypes make the game way more interesting. The good generic cards will be used by everyone and since they can fit into any deck, they will be everywhere, making the game just everyone using the same fucking deck
A lot of it also has to do with the overall card quantity increasing. Also, Types and Attributes play the role of archetypes as well with specific synergy pieces (Even Yugikaiba format made use of it with Sword of Dark Destruction and the occasional Flute of Summoning Dragon).
It's nice to see people get creative and mix in other synergistic archetypes into their decks. The fun stops when all decks begin to look the same because an engine is so good, it's utilized in every. single. deck. Looking at you, Halq and Verte.
If you look at the most problematic cards in recent times, they are mostly ones that do generic things (summon sorcceress, lavaval chain, halquifabrax, block dragon, linkcross, the dangers!, shock master, fire wall, etc.)
I personally quite like having archetypes. They allow for decks to have some semblance of aesthetic consistency that honestly feels really good to me. Not to mention every archetype plays differently from another in big or small ways, so it creates a sense of “uniqueness” in playstyle, even if it comes at the cost of a lack of uniqueness in deckbuilding. It is like every game tells a little story with the archetype. I also like when archetypes synergize with each other, hence why I’m playing Shaddoll-Invoked right now, telling the story of how Aleister got in over his head and is being exploited by the Shaddolls to use as Fusion Material and as a form of offense and defense for their own monsters.
archaic Okay but consider this: Aleister gets sacrificed to create a light monster so that Construct can use its full power Invocation is used while Aleister is already dead to make Mechaba, because Construct stole it.
Honestly, I do the same though sometimes I will mix two archetypes just because I think the name will be cool. For example I once tried to unsuccessfully mix together Fire Kings with Dragma so that the name of the deck would be: Holy Fire
On the one hand, being able to build theoretically anything with generic support is a really neat idea and can add some creativity and variety into the game. On the other hand I'm old enough to have been playing during Caveman YGO and staples.dek, which would always happen instead. Archetypes can be really rigid for some but I think they're generally okay. I'm a huge fan of "Soft Archetypes" like Lair of Darkness which basically just adds utility, synergy and an engine to any kind of cards that have similar effects to each other. Also more Lair of Darkness support when? Am I gonna have to become the Volcanic guy for that or what?
@@xDukii The real issue with lair right now is consistency. Mystic Mine getting Metaverse hit to 1 hurt Lair of Darkness A LOT. Lair bricks incredibly hard when the field spell isn't up and it is a deck that needs it's normal summon. Metaverse at 2 to 1 doesn't seem like a huge change on paper but it does a few things: 1. Completely throws the ratio off. Even with Arihma you need a way to get Lair on the field when you didn't open with it without using up your normal summon. Even if you split the baby with the bathwater and go for 1 Metaverse and 1 Terraforming, you end up in a situation where you can end up with dead cards in your hand (if you opened with Lair anyway) and nothing to do with it because your odds of opening with cards that make use of lair like Lilith and the like get slashed. 2. With Metaverse at 2 you have access to using Trap Trick, which can also be searched with Lilith which helps the deck flow much better because you can set up lair and traps as the deck plays normally, instead of doing one or the other and hoping you get a second turn to make use of any of it. Metaverse at 1 also kills the ability to use Trap Trick, as it needs to banish a copy of a normal trap to cheat one out from the extra deck. Metaverse is infinitely better for the deck than Terraforming by pure virtue of being a normal trap card. 3. Malice doesn't help the deck because of one bad call by Konami. She requires 2 tributes to recycle a trap. Not 1. Lair works in a weird way when it comes to number of tributes vs number of tributes for cost. It lets you pay tribute for cost using your opponent's monster(s) once but doesn't let you tribute your opponent's monsters for cost more than once per turn. What this means is that cards like Duke Shade end up becoming better Nibiru with Lair on the field because it doesn't specify a number of monsters you require to pay it's cost (tribute any number of Dark Monsters on the field). Even if you tribute more than one monster, you're only paying cost for a tribute effect once. Therefor Duke Shade can have his entire tribute cost paid with Lair in one go. Malice on the other hand specifies a number, 2 Dark Monsters. Meaning Lair can tribute one of your opponent's monsters for her cost but the other has to come from your side of the field because Lair already covered the first part of the cost. So just recycling Metaverse with Malice becomes incredibly cumbersome in a deck that needs to tribute and search traps at once in order to flow. Malice alone would have been infinitely more helpful for the deck if she just required one tribute or didn't specify a monster count. Pure Lair still has the potential to be strong rogue. Especially now more than ever due to tribute for cost being the only out to boss monsters in recent years. The issue is that Metaverse got hit when the problem card was Mystic Mine. This ended up being more of a burden to Lair of Darkness than it ever was to Mine because Konami is dumb and will ban literally everything else for years before just hitting the card that caused the problem to begin with. It's a shame too because Lair of Darkness was the deck I played for almost 2 years since getting back into YGO in 2017. There's so much potential for creative deck building without it just becoming a modern day "staples.dek" but Konami's refusal to handle Mystic Mine really fucked it over. tl;dr Limit Mystic Mine and put Metaverse back at Semi-Limited and Lair of Darkness is fixed.
@@gearhead6042 mystic mine is limited. And meta verse wont come back to 3 and so is terraforming stuck too. *Edit that wont fix the deck metaverse was at 3 back then.. it did nothing for the deck. Its too clunky. Its just a side thing used with other archetypes/cards like infernoids. Also just because you can read the card and it sounds good on paper it doesnt always mean it will be good when played. Everyone EVERYONE thought this structure deck was going to be good, and what happend? It flopped bruh.
@@xDukii It was weaker than people thought it would be but it was decent rogue at locals levels and fun to build and play. Sure it's not topping any majors or YCS but genuinely who cares about that? Competitive players at that level make up less than 1% of the people that actually play this game.
I just remembered the fact that Dhalsim from Street Fighter screams “Yoga” every time he hits is opponent, and now I am imagining Trif doing the same thing but screaming pendulum instead.
I seriously hope that damn card doesnt come back, especially when we already have issues with things such as a mechanical cross, a dragon wizard and infinite big chicken loops
I like modern deck building more. Back in the day you just basically ran 35 cards that were just good on their own, with maybe 6 that worked together on purpose. That wasn’t building a strategy that meant to go together. It was just random broken stuff that was all out to 1 or banned for being impossible to play around. Sure, now a days we have “cores” and staples. But there is a lot more synergy between the various parts. Meaning it all comes together to be greater than its summ. I compare it to making desert . Old school Yugioh was basically everyone using the same fruits for a fruit salad. Everything tastes great on its own, but because most fruit was unususably rotten and you might as well not put them all together. Modern day Yugioh is like baking a cake. Sure a lot of people use a premade mix, but everyone changes something small. Some add chocolate chips or use sprinkles and some do go back and add some old reliable fruit. But even then you end up with 20 people using a premade mix and having different cakes in the end
Without archtypes people would still use the best cards they can get to win, so it wont make any difference. So it's basicly "Using the best cards" vs. "Using the best Archtype" And bc archtypes can come up with new ways to play the game and new playstyle (such as Pendlum, Chaos Dragon, Infernity, E Hero etc.) this idea is great. Last but not leaat can Archtypes lead beginner better than just random cards
I think the issue is less archtypes in of themselves that are an issue it's when they are either so small and efficient you can bolt like 4 of them together so they can do things none of the individual archtypes could do on their own or it's powerful and generic enough you can just graft them onto another deck and make that deck do things it shouldn't or has so much extra room you can literally jam every powerful generic card you can think of in it and it doesn't even slow down or mess with the consistency of the deck in other words archtypes need to demand more in terms of deck space so that they limit the amount of generic stuff you can jam in there to break the fucking thing
As much as I enjoy old school YGO, the decks back then were generally even more cookie cutter then they are now. This is especially true with the spell / trap line decks ran back then. Spell line up 2005: Heavy, MST, Snatch, Scapegoat, Metamorphosis, Premature, Charity, What does it do?, Duo, Crossout etc. You rarely see other spells being used back in the day because most of the other spells are horse shit. Maybe United We Stand / Mage Power, ROTA in Warrior Toolbox and Mind Control as a cool tech option.
A Rafael life story after the whole cult member thing should be a Netflix series, where he is a bounty hunter that duels criminals and is focused on catching would be cult leaders.
*I'm reminded of how as a Trains Player, there are different variants that may or may not use multiple archetypes:* -Pure R10 Trains: Well, basically what it says; Train monsters that either go into R10 Trains or other R10 monsters. Pure variant, but lower ceiling -Infinitrack: Includes Infinitrack Engine to increase ceiling of R10 Trains. Some even use Anchor Drill to go into True King of Calamities. -Machina: Usually used to augment consistency of Infinitrack Trains even further, usually with the goal of playing through disruptions -Shaddoll: Use engine to go into monsters like Winda, Shekhinaga, and Construct. Shekhinaga also acts as extender in a pinch. -Cyber Dragon: Used to help Break Boards, usually using the OG Cyber Dragon and the Chimeratech package. Usually see it played with Shaddoll variant. *Then you get "generic" tech like:* -Hand Traps like Ash, Imperm, and Effect Veiler to help disrupt opponent -Kaiju Package; I actually play a GENEROUS package of 3 Jizukiru, 2 Gameciel, and 3 Slumber to help break boards with my Train-Infinitrack Deck. Jizukiru also helps as an extender -Mystic Mine: Hate build-a-boards, so activate to give them UPPER CUT. LIEBE SMAAAAASH!!! etc., etc., etc.
My only issue with modern yu gi oh is the abuse of special summoning which does not feel "special" anymore. I prefer goat format for that only reason, for the rest I completely agree.
Archetyps are good and bad at the same time. in old yugioh every deck was basically the same with at most 10 cards different while archetypes force you into playing completely different deck lists because you need to have a critical amount of archetype cards to make the deck functioning. but that also brings with it that you only play the obviously best cards of the archetype at 3 or 1 depending on what it is no debate. but also whenever cards are not bound to an archetype and are good its going to bring a problematic format where one deck can just do everything and there are missing outs to it. look at orcust at its prime where you just had to play 2 monsters for full orcust combo, while orcust already has a heavy restriction but not heavy enough to the point of can your deck play 2 monsters? Yes? OK now its an XXX-Orcust deck.
I like archetypes because it gives me that anime vibe of being "that character that only used -X-", gives my decks a consistent theme and aesthetic while at the same time being... actually playable and having interesting gimmicks and unique combo plays to them, as opposed to the good ol' days where you summon big monster and let him smash in hopes that there isn't a mirror force waiting for you.
Archetypes make yugioh great and allow flavor and different techniques, but I do agree that the recent trend of less “xenophobic” cards makes deckbuildimg and gameplay more enjoyable
Deck building before archetypes was homogeneous because so many broken cards weren't banned yet. Why bother trying to build anything interesting when you can just tear your opponents hand apart and throw down a bunch of huge monsters? But if you take that same 2004 deck list and ban all the hand destruction cards that should've never existed to begin with, then suddenly you have to get a bit more creative with how you build the deck. Not a lot more creative, because of the rather small cars pool we had at the time. Most monsters were vanilla, and most backrow were garbage. It's not the deck building was as braindead before archetypes as it is now, it's that there just weren't enough decent cards to really do anything with. Even in that 2007 deck list, you have plenty of new and decent cards, but all the broken shit that should've never existed somehow still wasn't banned.
It also heavily sways on general psychology of the people playing the game .Creativity takes a decent investment in time which limits the chance of innovation due to the cost of it.
i guess what is the most annoying in the community is like OG scrubs that complain about a deck at the time, and after the deck gets stabbed or powercrept off the format, they go play that deck and complain on the next, i know yugioh aint sunshine and rainbows, but cmon, stop being hypocrite, like i agree with farfa alot in several points and he also bringed something that is kinda fact, and i know that there will be a day that scrubs will be playing evenly matched in their decks, and looking to other people with modern staples and complain on those staples like how they complained on evenly at its glory days, its a vicious loop sadly, but again, i feel those people might not like the game really. PS: nice vid farfa :)
Or the scrubs that refuse to play a deck just because its "meta". Like seriously, if a deck is good and has a consistent win condition that you already liked just play it ffs.
I just go into lobbies or play with people under an agreement to not use the strongest decks of the format so I can enjoy some less consistent stuff without getting smashed. You can't expect people going to events to NOT use the best stuff they have access to and/or find fun to use, but when you're not at events I do enjoy the more rogue strategies, just because I see different cards to normal
@@shawnjavery thats basically the idea, sadly its unrealistic these days, the value of playing to improve and later on win, got demonized in these days alot by those scrub players, which is kinda sad, it shows that some part of the community is losing common values :/
@@MonteScarf ye i get what you mean, i aint criticizing casual players, i am mostly critizing scrubs, guys that dont play the best decks cuz they are the best, nor play the best staples not for the lack of money but more of same idea of the best deck, like even if you are playing for fun with your casual deck, i feel it still have room for todays day and age staples, like farfa said awhile ago: "you can play a bad deck and play good cards".
This is most insane with Dark Magician. Konami used archetypes to justify having insanely OP card effects, like 'If you control a dark magician, your opponent must give you their kidney and a thousand bucks. Oh, but you can only do this once per turn."
The more I learn about Yugioh, the more it seems like rather than being a good game that dropped in quality, that the game was, in fact, never good at all.
Earlier this year my spyral deck had 13 spyral cards and 27 other cards (power spells, extenders, called by the grave). And then Corona canceled the only regional the decklist would have been legal at.
Real talk here: what counts as "modern" Yugioh? I really got into things in 2007, which was the start of like 3 solid years of the meta being Destiny Hero + whatever engine is best. The only breaks from that were Gladiator Beast, Zombies, and Lightsworn. Boomers are like "deck building is starting every deck with the same 25 good cards and then putting in a couple of small engines." I only count 3 cards in that Chaos deck that weren't banned or limited at some point. Also, you baited me Farfa. I commented. Good job.
Personally, I think the big problem with generic cards, is they are often better than a lot of archetype options. Like, imagine if Twin Twister said "Discard 1 WIND Monster" instead of "1 card"
Te problem with archetypes is that most of them are unplayable. They restrict you to play certain cards. Tribal structure like magic the gathering has is way better, all support is generic and there is even generic "generic support" cards that are designed to help you if you choose to play a single creature tipe deck. I do like archetypes, but I don't think Konami uses them properly
Type > Archetype. I stopped playing when they started putting a specific phrase in the name of the cards which was a neon sign saying THESE CARDS GO TOGETHER. If I wanted to play a card game with synergistic theme decks id play vanguard, an seeing as i tend not to like that style of deckbuilding I don't play that either.
Idk I feel like in Good Stuff formats every deck ends up running the same Good Stuff cards which makes the meta feel more homogenous overall. Archetype-centric decks might look similar compared to other decks of the same archetype, but in a format where Good Stuff is more prevalent I feel like each type of deck looks more similar to each other. Ofc you're gonna have different things when building around different wincons, but a lot of the stuff outside of the wincon engine feels the same from deck to deck.
I look at the subject very differently than most I feel like back then the players made the formats as opposed to now where Konami rolls out the next big thing and it becomes meta. That’s as far as I go on the topic honestly it eventually becomes a new school versus old school thing and that’s hella annoying
Can you imagine a yugioh player who you knew nothing about but when you played them you found they didn't understand or follow the rules of the game? Imagine this person you just met constantly drew cards and played them, ignoring the turn order, game phases and card rulings. Would you make them head judge? I personally wouldn't think they'd do a good job if they couldn't play a simple game of yugioh. Just something I've been thinking about recently.
my friend & I were doing a thing where we were doing 15 pack drafts of each set chronologically and modifying our deck with the new cards we got then dueling eachother & when we got to like 2007 we were just like fuck this and quit doing it. archetypes really did ruin deckbuilding
I can't say I agree with this take at all lmao. I honestly hate the fact that generic staples and now monsters rule in yuigioh, and it's even more apparent in Duel Links. Meta decks in Duel Links almost all run generic staples, and tcg you've got the issue of having a handful of generic boss monsters being what most decks try to go into. Who doesn't want to have a deck that tries to go into its archetypal boss instead of the same boss that 15 other decks try to go into? Archetypes have their unique gimmicks and playstyles, and I would love to see the game being around different decks playing out their own ways and going for different win conditions and boards. I hate that every deck today is just trying to end on a Dragun, Borrelord, Crystal Wing, Harbinger, Accescode Talker, etc
Archetypes are to YGO what colors are to MTG; they're the de facto mechanic that enforces variety, choice and sacrifice in deckbuilding. I also personally think it's more fun when a new set that introduces a bunch of archetypes is announced for YGO and the community discusses what the most optimal ways to build them are and what other cards or engines synergize with them, than when a new core set for MTG comes out and the main discussion is just which already-existing decks the new cards would slot into.
I'm going to hard disagree with that analogy. A more direct comparison in YGO to colors in magic would be element. Each color in magic can do a lot of different things and synergize with many different styles, but they still all have multiple underlying themes. Likewise in YGO each element has a wide variety of playstyles and most are not exclusive to them, just maybe more frequent. You can also mix and match colors because there is some overlap on mechanics, if YGO wasn't so srchetype focussed they could probably do the same thing. Magic has nothing that is comparable to archetypes, the closest would be creature race which is more comparable to the monster type in YGO. Both have synergy within themselves but can do multiple different things depending on the focus, and once again can overlap into other types. Archetypes force a player into slotting certain synergistic cards or risk being suboptimal. that would be like in magic if your goblin cards were ony really effective with other goblins and any other included card made the deck objectively worse, with the same being true for elves, humans and so on.
I agree with you in a case. But here is some of my points. Archetypes doesn't make your creativity limited. Because there are also some archetypes that is considered as engines. And you can always mix archetypes with other archetypes which are engines. For instance, I use a graydle artifact kaijus as one of my main decks. And all of them are archetypes but still I see no one using it. So that's why I built it myself without netdecking. And this deck has a big potential against so many meta decks. So as you can see even though there are archetypes, you can build decks according to your imagination and with a lot of testing. But like I said at the beginning I agree with you in a case and that is archetypes makin you limited unless you don't play casual. Because people are obsessed with winning. Don't get me wrong I also like winning and nobody would ever want to lose a game when they spent that much on some bunch of papers. But just because of this desire to win people copy paste the decks which are almost unbeatable. But if they had wanted to try their best to use their imagination they could have found many other strategies even with archetypes.
I pretty much agree. I dont like how some archetypes are way superior to others, they should give all archetypes more or less some cards over time, which do the same or atleast can counter certain strategies.
Sorry to respond an old video. I use an analog to describe how it feels like to play yugioh with archtypes vs non-archtypes. So, let's imagine that Konami build cars and in the beginning it was up to racers to build the most efficient and fast build card out of scrap pieces. Now 20-30 years forward and Konami pumping out Lambos, Aston Martins, Bugattis and such. You get to choose from two to three different parts to build this car you race at the tournament that are tailor made for the car. Some parts might work with other parts but you rarely can mix and match them as you see fit. examples being, Cat Monk and Dino Rabbit at their prime. Fun for their standards but Konami didn't anticipate those being so good. What Konami wishes is a constant flow of money and by keeping people from stagnating with older card they push the power limit to faster and faster gears. You rarely see decks from decade ago performing well against decks from today. Tele-DAD can't keep up with something like Purrley or Dragolinks. This means that it's very likely that your Aston Martin which you bought for 200k from a fellow car enthusiast has value of zero. It performs perfectly against other cars from that same era and functions perfectly. This means you realisticly have handful of options: A) You get a new car that can race as well against similar competition. Netting you a loss. B) Be smart this time and dump the car to a sucker who doesn't know any better. Which makes the game look like a crypto scam in long run when this tactic is found out, or C) You get people to play cards from certain banlist and never upgrade anything. Making it an unofficial format by itself. So how does this have to do with the archtypes? Let's say that if you had only the card names and the abilities were more generic. Like Destiny Draw counting every single HERO card instead of D-HEROes. The game would become much more open for experimenting and tinkering. Yes, there would still be 3-5 decks that would be there and it wouldn't solve the competetive problem, but for a casual player it wouldn't force them to dedicate to the game that much. Meaning that I would have to be a millionaire or a scammer if I wanted to be on the top tier gameplay where decks can cost easily over thousands of dollars. If yugioh had more similar cards to the Ash Blossom the game would be much more long lasting and healthier for everyone. Or atleast give a vibe to normies who doesn't play the game and even they can build something to somewhat stand their grounds to the best deck.
I miss these old crazy brews like HAT and such. Other games are able to balance having archetypal synergies with actually being able to play other cards. Not so exclusive you are basically required to run nothing but archetypal cards for it even to work or be worth running.
Ive been playing since yugioh started and old emper-yata was my favorite deck but guess what... that format was broken and very uncreative once everyone found out your deck needed 37 staples and had a solid 3 spots to flex. Yugioh now a days may be insanly faster but it is a lot more creative. We have gravekeeprs to thank for being the first real archetype!
lol creative please now you have to do months of research to even understand wtf half the cards even do now to even know what your playing against if you havent played in years back in day you knew wtf the cards did cause they were easy to grasp and common enough now you got 50+ archetypes you need to kno otherwise your oppoeant will be speed running thru their turn and your going wtf is going on
@@mastergamerx Agreed , there is just SO much you have to know to keep up. In saying that you can just do what i do and any time your opponent tries to just speed through his plays because he assumes you know what every card he plays does you can simply stop them and insist on reading every card. You have the right to do it and I find it quickly stops them from being elitist a-holes. Also you wouldn't believe how many times someone said " tribute, link summon, link summon, XYZ summon" and I double checked to find that they couldnt make one of those moves at all. Players often cheat or simply don't know their own cards and get away with it. NOT on my watch buddy muwahahahahaha!!!!
I’m in favor of archetypes being a better idea. However, I think smaller archetypes like (previously) Phantom Knights, Sky Striker, and the impending Evil Twins are much better and allow more creativity. They don’t have enough to form a strong deck on their own, so you combine them with other things, even though they synergize perfectly with each other
No Farfa, I did not know you owned a play set of ultimate rare Tour Guide of the Underworld.
FarfaY
I forget that, just like Marcello has a house in France
as it went to 2 he bought a 3rd copy and then as it went to 3 he showed that he had a play set live
Wait farfa owns a playset of ultimate rare tour guide of the underworld?
I had no idea that Farfa owns a playset of Ultimate Tour Guides, he has never mentioned this before.
Farfa screams pendulum more than trif at this point
lol
Mmm...you haven’t watched enough trif videos have you? I thought farfa was exaggerating, until I saw trif’s banlist reaction, he said pendulum best deck about 3 times before he even saw 1 double iris magician
Lol not even close
@@iBenjamin1000 Yeah but trif doesnt upload as often lol
@@sophachord Trueeeeeeeeee
My favorite meta deck is „the senate“ with a small „billions of dollars“ engine
I don't know man, "Obama care" came out is 2010 and is still a decent rogue deck. Shame they still have "Affordable health care" on the ban list.
yeah the „billions of dollars“ engine is so good you can play a 60 card deck and still draw what you want
I'm so rogue I play cornpop with a court of justice build. It is very good but my opponents always say it's too ruthless.
@@lordquaz7154 shame Medicare for all will never be released in TCG US
Ok so anyone commenting please don’t start a fight (not meant at anyone who commented previously)
Hey you didn't say Adios at the end, this video doensn't count
Old school yugioh players act like chaos emperor dragon wasn’t also busted
Magical scientist ftk😀
Yata Lock
Or GOAT players acting like the occasional time they go against Reasoning Gate they possibly get handlooped for 5 by DMoC Delinquent Duo loops is fun and interactive
Same shit different era. Crybabies then, crybabies now
@@toadallynoodle5414 because getting a one-off out of reasoning while having another one-off in grave is a consistent 1st turn play in goat format lol feels like you lost to often against that deck. Almost every deck in the history of yugioh has some degenerate combos when you give them their 2-3 oneoffs like soulcharge, Grass or FutureFusion. The only difference ist that now you can search these cards or summon them directly from the extra deck lol
Yu-gi-oh! players: Needlefiber linkross and verte are too generic, noone wants to play against the same combos over and over again!
Also yu-gi-oh! players: Archetypes ruined the game, i miss the times where every deck played the same 21 staples
Sincerely most of the cards i find unbalanced are there cause they have no restrictions. Just think about how balanced crystron would be if only it required a crystron tuner
@@casinoroyal93 yeah but the the card simply wouldn't be good at all 🤷🏾♂️. Cards that are fair and balanced don't see play for a reason, because good cards are good because they have unfair interactions
Both of things ultimately end in the same place. Not having a color system was YGO original sin. Not having colors meaning 90% of the cards are either too generic or too xenophobic.
@@noukan42 i disagree, this might be personal preference but i really like archetypes more than colors, mainly because i feel each achetype deck has their own unique flavor and playstyle while with colors you would see them share a lot more cards, i like games where each player is trying to go for a completely different wincon and thats easier to do when there arent that many staple generic(or generic for their color) cards runing around, so yeah i dont feel archetypes are too xenophobic but actually the right amount, altho again, personal preference
@@Zhyro00 the problem is not archetypes, the problem are universal cards. Pot and Black Lotus are not the most powerful cards, what break them is that they are so utterly generic that there is no reason to not use them in any deck.
YGO made the problem worse whit generic extra deck cards, that not only are playable in any deck(like, the most unga bunga goat deck could still do some XYZ and Link plays just because they are this generic), but don't even require to be drawn.
Over the years YGO printed decent generic cards for pretty much every role, wich makes archetype design difficult. If the in archetype boss is worse than Apollousa people won't use it, because they can make Apollousa just as easily. The banlist can only help to an exstent, because they can't exactly ban every single good R4NK.
Colors mitigate this while leaving archetypes as a possible gameplay option.
Lacks of colors and of set rotation are at the same time YGO greatest assets and greatest flaws
I think generic cards hurt archetypes way more than the reverse. 'Oh cool, you're deck can make a really cool card that works with your archetype and has very fair limits to it... but you could just play Borreload Savage/Crystal Wing/Dragoon//Infinity/Borrelsword/Avaramax/Appolousa/ANY CARD that can do your thing better'. This makes archetypes less about overall monster and gimmick design and more about what deck can shit out as many generic monsters as possible and maybe their own monster if they HAVE to.
Blackwings, the rank 4 link deck that can also make Borrel Savage cus tuners... oh and they have Full Armour master which they make sometimes too.
Any dragon deck: Imma just become dragon link really quick. Hell, Dragunity makes almost anything over their own boss monsters because why would they?!
Pendulums: This is a mechanic, not an archetype. But I forget others exist except Dinomist because it was bad at making generic things other than Infinity
This is excluding archetypes that are just bad because they're too restrictive and limit you to their own cards, which most other decks could probably make better but never bother trying because why would they when they have generic kings.
I'm not saying all generic cards are bad or that archetypes can't be disgusting by themselves (thunder dragons), just that generic boss monsters are a huge problem.
So yeah, Crystron Needlefiber should have taken a crystron tuner
EXACTLY THIS.
said it better than i ever could
Reminds me of certain youtube channels that showcase decks. They all do the same plays and try to end with the same board, but with varying degrees of consistency.
Exactly, and in regards to dragunity deck was literally made to synchro climb into other dragons, the official Konami strategy was to vaj, into stardust. Gae Dearg, Vaj and Barcha all just go into generic dragon synchros and links. They after so many years, just got 2 boss monster in the form of ascalon and areadbhair. However. Ascalon is more of a turn 2+ card that you shouldn't end on. And Areadbhair is just level 10 crystal wing, when it comes to utilization. Its the first Archtype card they can end on. They need to make cards less generic, but that's bad for business, so they won't. However, it makes perfect sense when needle fiber or Electrumite are generic, its because they aren't meant to improve their own archtype but to help the mechanics that were hurt by links. However needle fiber needed to not be able to linked away first turn and Electrumite didn't need to net you so much advantage off one card.
@@jdamourep Dragunity has had several boss monsters over the years, and the fact that there's so many level 8 generic dragon synchros is a whole other issue. But it is important to note that an archetype can change it's game plan and style, such as how Blue-Eyes went from fusion to synchro to ritual. Dragunity being designed with all of their important cards to go into a different monster entirely is weird but understandable card design and I don't mind it as much as other cards because it's still a large dragon monster they had to put resources into. That, however is not even what they do anymore since Dragunity is moreso an engine nowadays. Also, the structure deck that gave them a lot of support had a very different intended purpose that was ignored because of the generic toolbox nature of Dragunity. If anything, Dragunity intending to be used as a way to summon big generic boss monsters before anything only proves my point that archetypes are being designed to do that rather than anything themselves
As for CRYSTRON Needlefiber and METALFOES Electrumite, there was no need to make either card part of an already existing archetype and then make them generic. Even ignoring the hindsight of how busted they are and pretending that they were designed to be used for their specific purpose of being synchro and pendulum support, it's hard to justify their existence as part of an archetype or, again, why any deck would run any link two over them if they could make them. The best example being the link 2 junk monster that has nothing on needlefiber despite having more restrictions as an archetype card.
I'm fine with generic cards that help out, but the problem is that generic cards are just better than their archetype restricted counterparts and none of the examples you brought up dispute this as fact.
Archetypes are honestly one of the main reasons why i love this game. Their very own consistent style of artwork on every card that also tells a little tale/lore about themselves while occaisonally involving other archetypes too is highly appealing for some reason. I just wish some of them wouldn't swat the decks of others and function as a broken mechanic to declare war to pakistan by shitting out all the generic negates this game has to offer. Why Noodlefieber has to be a degenrate combo enabler in every deck is still beyond me.
Anyway, Digimon
Like Farfa(?) said last year/couple years ago(?), extra deck cards that able to access main deck will certainly enable degenerate combo e.g. Summon Sorc, Electrumite, M-X-Saber, Broadbull, Ib Justiciar, Dark Matter (send 3 as COST btw). Next in line is Halqifibrax & Isolde
@@m.rasyidhibatullah7775 well the problem aren't the archetype cards like noodle, BUT the decision of komoney to make them generic by letting them get summoned by every card. Verde summoned not by "2 effect monsters" but "2 effect monsters including at least 1 'predaplant' monster" or noodle not summoned by "2 monsters including at least 1 tuner" but "2 monsters, including at least 1 tuner and 1 'crystron' monster" would make them less problematic. its not the fault of the archetype but the fault of konami in making them so easy to summon. Mermaid was banned. Why? Ningirsu and crescendo out of 2 monsters. Verde: dragoon out of 2 monsters. Why banning that card if this card makes the same (with less garnets)
@@robinsimon4176 i prefer attribute or type restriction, it leaves room for creativity.
@@nghiahuunguyen9015 and this made buster lock possible... sad story
I only run Noodle to summon Pinaki the Waxing moon for a search lol
At some point he‘s going to pull the pin out of a hand grenade yelling PENDULUM.
Archetypes bring way more personality to the game with how their theme is represented in gameplay and give players decks they can more naturally gravitate towards. Like what would the game even look like now if they werent introduced ?
It’s creepy how much my comment looks like yours even though I didn’t see it until after I wrote mine lol
Halostorm how intelligent and responsive
it would turn to mtg
@@Dehalove What was your comment?
I completely agree. In Yugioh you can have Dante’s Inferno vs King Arthur Myths, or Kaijus vs Cryptids. It’s so awesome.
I much prefer when decks and archetypes are built and played around themselves rather than individual cards being overwhelmingly powerful to the point that they get splashed in any and every deck, stripping them of all individuality from the other archetypes.
Thats how shits gets banned i hate especially if your archetype gets nerfed just cause some popular bs
@@ReallyPhilly215 my fking phantom beast planes are dead. no olion
@@ReallyPhilly215 preach brother! Lol I miss jet synchron 😥
These recent videos are some of my favourite content from Farfa. I love how he discusses (with satire) both sides of arguments that have persisted since the beginning of Yu-Gi-Oh!
Archetypes are what makes ygo interesting and fun imo. Goat elitist with their good-stuff.decks = PogChimp
goat format is overrated. Lmfao its like what it is right now. The top decks are using the same engine or something similiar and their end boards are almost identical. Everyones gonna put in the damn metamorphasis in their deck with reliquished and scapegoat. OH BUT WAIT I GOT THE MONARCH CARD IN IT, and the guy next to him, WELL I GOT GRAVEKEEPER SPY IN MINE! fucking boring as fuck. And then you got the ftk shit or the burn. Right thats a great format. The only difference now is that the game ends quickly while the allure of Goat supposedly is the resource management and the grind game. Its not that great. its like that chess club at school with a few kids back in the day.
@@xDukii nah. There are a lot of different decks you can play in goat. The problem is that most people just play THE standard goat control list and that's why a lot of people think goat format has card pool of 30 relevant cards only lol If you compare a GoatControl to TD Chaos to Reasoning Gate to Gravekeeper to Zombie to AntiMetaWarrior to Burn to PACMAN etc you see quite some variety. It is not like modern yugioh has more to offer in terms of variety with Linkross/Needlefiber/Dragoon combos slapped into 50% of all decks. I just think that it is rather the slow pace of the format that makes people do not like goat format than a less archetype pronounced or "diverse" metagame.
@@xDukii The way I see this, the problem lies in people approaching GOAT competitively. I think the intended point was for people to actually have fun and build decks based on a theme they like etc, much like the original series.
The end of the video has me dying. I love this new content along with your old ones. Great stuff man.
The only real gripe with archtypes I have is just buying a pack and looking through the cards and not being able to see the potential of like any card in the pack unless I go look at the full set list online etc. Haven't played the game in years but any time I buy a pack for fun I'm just confused and discouraged.
I feel like archetypes balance the game for the state it's currently in, but some good points were made here
I mostly disagree. Sure it's lame when a deck can be built by just including all cards with "x" in its name. But deckbuilding back in the day was a matter of shoving in as many broken 1 ofs as possible. Not much better. And now a days some archetypes are splashable and work well together, and it's cool when that happens.
Nobody:
Players before 2009:
DO YOU WANT TO SEE MY MIXXY MASHHY DECK, WHAT DO YOU PLAY....EVERYTHING
GUYS I think I finally found 40 good cards
Archetypes promote diversity and i love em. Each one just has its own identity and can be tweaked to suit the player. I also like to appreciate the lore in each one and love it when my cards are in uniform.
Archetypes make the game way more interesting. The good generic cards will be used by everyone and since they can fit into any deck, they will be everywhere, making the game just everyone using the same fucking deck
If I wanted to play a YGO deck without archetypes, I’d play MTG.
@@nmr7203 you can play archetypes, called tribal, but it isn't as emphasized in magic
@@fungusonus True, you CAN play tribals, but most of the time it's not worth it...except Humans and Eldrazi
ZeratoGZ eldrazi ftw
@@badwolfdubOfficial mimic spam go brrrrr
@@ZeratoGZ that's my point, magic technically has archetypes, but that isn't a big part of the game at all
A lot of it also has to do with the overall card quantity increasing. Also, Types and Attributes play the role of archetypes as well with specific synergy pieces (Even Yugikaiba format made use of it with Sword of Dark Destruction and the occasional Flute of Summoning Dragon).
It's nice to see people get creative and mix in other synergistic archetypes into their decks. The fun stops when all decks begin to look the same because an engine is so good, it's utilized in every. single. deck.
Looking at you, Halq and Verte.
If you look at the most problematic cards in recent times, they are mostly ones that do generic things (summon sorcceress, lavaval chain, halquifabrax, block dragon, linkcross, the dangers!, shock master, fire wall, etc.)
Mekk Knight Blue:
Me: STFU mechaba fodder I'm trying to play Invoked
oh yeah, thar one boring deck that hopefully dies next banlist *cought* did i say something?
@@robinsimon4176 I also like to *COUGHT*
I personally quite like having archetypes. They allow for decks to have some semblance of aesthetic consistency that honestly feels really good to me. Not to mention every archetype plays differently from another in big or small ways, so it creates a sense of “uniqueness” in playstyle, even if it comes at the cost of a lack of uniqueness in deckbuilding. It is like every game tells a little story with the archetype.
I also like when archetypes synergize with each other, hence why I’m playing Shaddoll-Invoked right now, telling the story of how Aleister got in over his head and is being exploited by the Shaddolls to use as Fusion Material and as a form of offense and defense for their own monsters.
I think you got mixed up... Aleister is the one pulling the strings in that relationship. He's just letting Construct think she's in control for now.
archaic Okay but consider this:
Aleister gets sacrificed to create a light monster so that Construct can use its full power
Invocation is used while Aleister is already dead to make Mechaba, because Construct stole it.
Honestly, I do the same though sometimes I will mix two archetypes just because I think the name will be cool. For example I once tried to unsuccessfully mix together Fire Kings with Dragma so that the name of the deck would be: Holy Fire
On the one hand, being able to build theoretically anything with generic support is a really neat idea and can add some creativity and variety into the game. On the other hand I'm old enough to have been playing during Caveman YGO and staples.dek, which would always happen instead.
Archetypes can be really rigid for some but I think they're generally okay. I'm a huge fan of "Soft Archetypes" like Lair of Darkness which basically just adds utility, synergy and an engine to any kind of cards that have similar effects to each other.
Also more Lair of Darkness support when? Am I gonna have to become the Volcanic guy for that or what?
you just got the couterpart to lilith? There is also a bunch of tribute cards you can use.
@@xDukii The real issue with lair right now is consistency. Mystic Mine getting Metaverse hit to 1 hurt Lair of Darkness A LOT. Lair bricks incredibly hard when the field spell isn't up and it is a deck that needs it's normal summon. Metaverse at 2 to 1 doesn't seem like a huge change on paper but it does a few things:
1. Completely throws the ratio off. Even with Arihma you need a way to get Lair on the field when you didn't open with it without using up your normal summon. Even if you split the baby with the bathwater and go for 1 Metaverse and 1 Terraforming, you end up in a situation where you can end up with dead cards in your hand (if you opened with Lair anyway) and nothing to do with it because your odds of opening with cards that make use of lair like Lilith and the like get slashed.
2. With Metaverse at 2 you have access to using Trap Trick, which can also be searched with Lilith which helps the deck flow much better because you can set up lair and traps as the deck plays normally, instead of doing one or the other and hoping you get a second turn to make use of any of it. Metaverse at 1 also kills the ability to use Trap Trick, as it needs to banish a copy of a normal trap to cheat one out from the extra deck. Metaverse is infinitely better for the deck than Terraforming by pure virtue of being a normal trap card.
3. Malice doesn't help the deck because of one bad call by Konami. She requires 2 tributes to recycle a trap. Not 1. Lair works in a weird way when it comes to number of tributes vs number of tributes for cost. It lets you pay tribute for cost using your opponent's monster(s) once but doesn't let you tribute your opponent's monsters for cost more than once per turn. What this means is that cards like Duke Shade end up becoming better Nibiru with Lair on the field because it doesn't specify a number of monsters you require to pay it's cost (tribute any number of Dark Monsters on the field). Even if you tribute more than one monster, you're only paying cost for a tribute effect once. Therefor Duke Shade can have his entire tribute cost paid with Lair in one go. Malice on the other hand specifies a number, 2 Dark Monsters. Meaning Lair can tribute one of your opponent's monsters for her cost but the other has to come from your side of the field because Lair already covered the first part of the cost. So just recycling Metaverse with Malice becomes incredibly cumbersome in a deck that needs to tribute and search traps at once in order to flow. Malice alone would have been infinitely more helpful for the deck if she just required one tribute or didn't specify a monster count.
Pure Lair still has the potential to be strong rogue. Especially now more than ever due to tribute for cost being the only out to boss monsters in recent years. The issue is that Metaverse got hit when the problem card was Mystic Mine. This ended up being more of a burden to Lair of Darkness than it ever was to Mine because Konami is dumb and will ban literally everything else for years before just hitting the card that caused the problem to begin with. It's a shame too because Lair of Darkness was the deck I played for almost 2 years since getting back into YGO in 2017. There's so much potential for creative deck building without it just becoming a modern day "staples.dek" but Konami's refusal to handle Mystic Mine really fucked it over.
tl;dr
Limit Mystic Mine and put Metaverse back at Semi-Limited and Lair of Darkness is fixed.
@@gearhead6042 mystic mine is limited. And meta verse wont come back to 3 and so is terraforming stuck too.
*Edit that wont fix the deck metaverse was at 3 back then.. it did nothing for the deck. Its too clunky. Its just a side thing used with other archetypes/cards like infernoids. Also just because you can read the card and it sounds good on paper it doesnt always mean it will be good when played. Everyone EVERYONE thought this structure deck was going to be good, and what happend? It flopped bruh.
@@xDukii It was weaker than people thought it would be but it was decent rogue at locals levels and fun to build and play. Sure it's not topping any majors or YCS but genuinely who cares about that? Competitive players at that level make up less than 1% of the people that actually play this game.
My problem with archetypes is that most don't do shit when you don't have the rest of the cards of the archetype.
Hence why yugioh pre-release tourneys don't go as well as mtg pre releases.
Hey stop mocking nat beast in the mirror match :(
Duncan, we miss you and your big brain
When you said Insect Ritual I instantly thought of the old Demise Doomdozer OTK
Part of me wants to believe Farfa isn't actually that accurate, and had to roll into the room for about an hour to land that shot.
First time baby
"Weevil comes home from his nine to five and finds solace in ants...and moths..."
You know what? I can respect a guy like that.
I just remembered the fact that Dhalsim from Street Fighter screams “Yoga” every time he hits is opponent, and now I am imagining Trif doing the same thing but screaming pendulum instead.
Metalfoes get new support, Electrumite unbanned confirmed LETS GOOOO
I got Metalfoes base. I don't even know hoe they play but i frigging love the art and i will roll with it
I seriously hope that damn card doesnt come back, especially when we already have issues with things such as a mechanical cross, a dragon wizard and infinite big chicken loops
I like modern deck building more. Back in the day you just basically ran 35 cards that were just good on their own, with maybe 6 that worked together on purpose. That wasn’t building a strategy that meant to go together. It was just random broken stuff that was all out to 1 or banned for being impossible to play around.
Sure, now a days we have “cores” and staples. But there is a lot more synergy between the various parts. Meaning it all comes together to be greater than its summ.
I compare it to making desert . Old school Yugioh was basically everyone using the same fruits for a fruit salad. Everything tastes great on its own, but because most fruit was unususably rotten and you might as well not put them all together.
Modern day Yugioh is like baking a cake. Sure a lot of people use a premade mix, but everyone changes something small. Some add chocolate chips or use sprinkles and some do go back and add some old reliable fruit. But even then you end up with 20 people using a premade mix and having different cakes in the end
If I'm ever in a position where I get feather duster'd for 5 I deserved to get feather duster'd for 5
Without archtypes people would still use the best cards they can get to win, so it wont make any difference. So it's basicly "Using the best cards" vs. "Using the best Archtype"
And bc archtypes can come up with new ways to play the game and new playstyle (such as Pendlum, Chaos Dragon, Infernity, E Hero etc.) this idea is great.
Last but not leaat can Archtypes lead beginner better than just random cards
I think the issue is less archtypes in of themselves that are an issue it's when they are either so small and efficient you can bolt like 4 of them together so they can do things none of the individual archtypes could do on their own or it's powerful and generic enough you can just graft them onto another deck and make that deck do things it shouldn't or has so much extra room you can literally jam every powerful generic card you can think of in it and it doesn't even slow down or mess with the consistency of the deck in other words archtypes need to demand more in terms of deck space so that they limit the amount of generic stuff you can jam in there to break the fucking thing
As much as I enjoy old school YGO, the decks back then were generally even more cookie cutter then they are now. This is especially true with the spell / trap line decks ran back then.
Spell line up 2005: Heavy, MST, Snatch, Scapegoat, Metamorphosis, Premature, Charity, What does it do?, Duo, Crossout etc.
You rarely see other spells being used back in the day because most of the other spells are horse shit.
Maybe United We Stand / Mage Power, ROTA in Warrior Toolbox and Mind Control as a cool tech option.
Next presidential debate should be a yugioh duel. Change my mind
Trump plays Mystic Mine
A Rafael life story after the whole cult member thing should be a Netflix series, where he is a bounty hunter that duels criminals and is focused on catching would be cult leaders.
Yeah Pendulum is BEST DECK.
PENDULUM 100000 NEGATES LEZZZZ GOO BABYYYY NEW PENDULUM METALFOES SUPPORT LEZZZZZZ GOOOO BABYYYY
*I'm reminded of how as a Trains Player, there are different variants that may or may not use multiple archetypes:*
-Pure R10 Trains: Well, basically what it says; Train monsters that either go into R10 Trains or other R10 monsters. Pure variant, but lower ceiling
-Infinitrack: Includes Infinitrack Engine to increase ceiling of R10 Trains. Some even use Anchor Drill to go into True King of Calamities.
-Machina: Usually used to augment consistency of Infinitrack Trains even further, usually with the goal of playing through disruptions
-Shaddoll: Use engine to go into monsters like Winda, Shekhinaga, and Construct. Shekhinaga also acts as extender in a pinch.
-Cyber Dragon: Used to help Break Boards, usually using the OG Cyber Dragon and the Chimeratech package. Usually see it played with Shaddoll variant.
*Then you get "generic" tech like:*
-Hand Traps like Ash, Imperm, and Effect Veiler to help disrupt opponent
-Kaiju Package; I actually play a GENEROUS package of 3 Jizukiru, 2 Gameciel, and 3 Slumber to help break boards with my Train-Infinitrack Deck. Jizukiru also helps as an extender
-Mystic Mine: Hate build-a-boards, so activate to give them UPPER CUT. LIEBE SMAAAAASH!!!
etc., etc., etc.
My only issue with modern yu gi oh is the abuse of special summoning which does not feel "special" anymore.
I prefer goat format for that only reason, for the rest I completely agree.
Archetyps are good and bad at the same time. in old yugioh every deck was basically the same with at most 10 cards different while archetypes force you into playing completely different deck lists because you need to have a critical amount of archetype cards to make the deck functioning. but that also brings with it that you only play the obviously best cards of the archetype at 3 or 1 depending on what it is no debate. but also whenever cards are not bound to an archetype and are good its going to bring a problematic format where one deck can just do everything and there are missing outs to it. look at orcust at its prime where you just had to play 2 monsters for full orcust combo, while orcust already has a heavy restriction but not heavy enough to the point of can your deck play 2 monsters? Yes? OK now its an XXX-Orcust deck.
I like archetypes because it gives me that anime vibe of being "that character that only used -X-", gives my decks a consistent theme and aesthetic while at the same time being... actually playable and having interesting gimmicks and unique combo plays to them, as opposed to the good ol' days where you summon big monster and let him smash in hopes that there isn't a mirror force waiting for you.
Archetypes make yugioh great and allow flavor and different techniques, but I do agree that the recent trend of less “xenophobic” cards makes deckbuildimg and gameplay more enjoyable
Deck building before archetypes was homogeneous because so many broken cards weren't banned yet.
Why bother trying to build anything interesting when you can just tear your opponents hand apart and throw down a bunch of huge monsters?
But if you take that same 2004 deck list and ban all the hand destruction cards that should've never existed to begin with, then suddenly you have to get a bit more creative with how you build the deck.
Not a lot more creative, because of the rather small cars pool we had at the time. Most monsters were vanilla, and most backrow were garbage. It's not the deck building was as braindead before archetypes as it is now, it's that there just weren't enough decent cards to really do anything with.
Even in that 2007 deck list, you have plenty of new and decent cards, but all the broken shit that should've never existed somehow still wasn't banned.
Sure but traps and spells were not really that synergistic with the monsters back then
It also heavily sways on general psychology of the people playing the game .Creativity takes a decent investment in time which limits the chance of innovation due to the cost of it.
what a nice shitpost
i guess what is the most annoying in the community is like OG scrubs that complain about a deck at the time, and after the deck gets stabbed or powercrept off the format, they go play that deck and complain on the next, i know yugioh aint sunshine and rainbows, but cmon, stop being hypocrite, like i agree with farfa alot in several points and he also bringed something that is kinda fact, and i know that there will be a day that scrubs will be playing evenly matched in their decks, and looking to other people with modern staples and complain on those staples like how they complained on evenly at its glory days, its a vicious loop sadly, but again, i feel those people might not like the game really.
PS: nice vid farfa :)
Or the scrubs that refuse to play a deck just because its "meta". Like seriously, if a deck is good and has a consistent win condition that you already liked just play it ffs.
I just go into lobbies or play with people under an agreement to not use the strongest decks of the format so I can enjoy some less consistent stuff without getting smashed. You can't expect people going to events to NOT use the best stuff they have access to and/or find fun to use, but when you're not at events I do enjoy the more rogue strategies, just because I see different cards to normal
@@shawnjavery thats basically the idea, sadly its unrealistic these days, the value of playing to improve and later on win, got demonized in these days alot by those scrub players, which is kinda sad, it shows that some part of the community is losing common values :/
@@MonteScarf ye i get what you mean, i aint criticizing casual players, i am mostly critizing scrubs, guys that dont play the best decks cuz they are the best, nor play the best staples not for the lack of money but more of same idea of the best deck, like even if you are playing for fun with your casual deck, i feel it still have room for todays day and age staples, like farfa said awhile ago: "you can play a bad deck and play good cards".
PENDULUMS 🤾🏻♂️
Farfa every video kills me please never change
How you making use of smoke grenade in dragon link? I thought just infernoble ran it
This is most insane with Dark Magician. Konami used archetypes to justify having insanely OP card effects, like 'If you control a dark magician, your opponent must give you their kidney and a thousand bucks. Oh, but you can only do this once per turn."
Okey farfa.. how long did it take you to do the last roll and hit the camera?
The more I learn about Yugioh, the more it seems like rather than being a good game that dropped in quality, that the game was, in fact, never good at all.
best outro i seen so far, should keep that farfa
Earlier this year my spyral deck had 13 spyral cards and 27 other cards (power spells, extenders, called by the grave). And then Corona canceled the only regional the decklist would have been legal at.
Real talk here: what counts as "modern" Yugioh? I really got into things in 2007, which was the start of like 3 solid years of the meta being Destiny Hero + whatever engine is best. The only breaks from that were Gladiator Beast, Zombies, and Lightsworn. Boomers are like "deck building is starting every deck with the same 25 good cards and then putting in a couple of small engines." I only count 3 cards in that Chaos deck that weren't banned or limited at some point.
Also, you baited me Farfa. I commented. Good job.
My opponents never expect my Zoodiac Skystriker Hydralander deck.
DINO BEST DECK
Did you watched the video?
Carfax have you overlayed an ulti tour guide and super graff into a common or gold dante
Personally, I think the big problem with generic cards, is they are often better than a lot of archetype options.
Like, imagine if Twin Twister said "Discard 1 WIND Monster" instead of "1 card"
I just wanna say that you always brighten up my day with your videos! I love your “”art””
Te problem with archetypes is that most of them are unplayable. They restrict you to play certain cards. Tribal structure like magic the gathering has is way better, all support is generic and there is even generic "generic support" cards that are designed to help you if you choose to play a single creature tipe deck. I do like archetypes, but I don't think Konami uses them properly
I thought I saw Trif at 2:56...can anyone confirm?
Your content is always so poignant and well spoken, but still humorous and entertaining! Absolute hoss
"the forbidden and limited list of America" why you gotta call my country out like that man
Type > Archetype. I stopped playing when they started putting a specific phrase in the name of the cards which was a neon sign saying THESE CARDS GO TOGETHER. If I wanted to play a card game with synergistic theme decks id play vanguard, an seeing as i tend not to like that style of deckbuilding I don't play that either.
so you stopped playing in 2003
dumb yugiboomer dogshit as always
"i did nothing wrong man" killed me KEKW
So I'm not smart for running Vylon Cube in Infernoble? Awww
modern yugioh > oldschool yugioh
this
Yes they did ruin the game I can no longer run 30 of the same cards in every deck and act smart for playing 3 mystical Rafpanel with pot of generosity
Pendulum isn't an archetype but a game mechanic, Trif must be creaming his pants right now in agreement.
Hey Farfa, why don’t you tell us that you have an Ultimate Rare playset of Tour Guide?
I don't know why but I laughed so hard at the short pause after he said "Draco-pal pendulum..."
How do i submit to table 500
I now have to look up how many Insect Ritual Monsters there are.
There is 1. No, seriously, only 1.
before archetypes, how many different decks were meta?
I just built a predaplant / eldlich / numeron / invoked / shaddol deck
Aka
P.e.n.i.s
Can u send list plz
Before we had staples
Now we have staples + archetypes
Kill me
Idk I feel like in Good Stuff formats every deck ends up running the same Good Stuff cards which makes the meta feel more homogenous overall. Archetype-centric decks might look similar compared to other decks of the same archetype, but in a format where Good Stuff is more prevalent I feel like each type of deck looks more similar to each other. Ofc you're gonna have different things when building around different wincons, but a lot of the stuff outside of the wincon engine feels the same from deck to deck.
I think without archetypes, everyone would just be playing the same deck. I mean, look at goat format.
No Farfa deck building in 2015 was the best because NEKROZ BEST DECK LET'S GOOOO
I look at the subject very differently than most I feel like back then the players made the formats as opposed to now where Konami rolls out the next big thing and it becomes meta. That’s as far as I go on the topic honestly it eventually becomes a new school versus old school thing and that’s hella annoying
So wheres table 500 after the banlist?
Can you imagine a yugioh player who you knew nothing about but when you played them you found they didn't understand or follow the rules of the game? Imagine this person you just met constantly drew cards and played them, ignoring the turn order, game phases and card rulings. Would you make them head judge? I personally wouldn't think they'd do a good job if they couldn't play a simple game of yugioh. Just something I've been thinking about recently.
If we weren't in lockdown I'd be topping every event with my spicy Anne Tifa list
my friend & I were doing a thing where we were doing 15 pack drafts of each set chronologically and modifying our deck with the new cards we got then dueling eachother
& when we got to like 2007 we were just like fuck this and quit doing it. archetypes really did ruin deckbuilding
I can't say I agree with this take at all lmao. I honestly hate the fact that generic staples and now monsters rule in yuigioh, and it's even more apparent in Duel Links. Meta decks in Duel Links almost all run generic staples, and tcg you've got the issue of having a handful of generic boss monsters being what most decks try to go into. Who doesn't want to have a deck that tries to go into its archetypal boss instead of the same boss that 15 other decks try to go into? Archetypes have their unique gimmicks and playstyles, and I would love to see the game being around different decks playing out their own ways and going for different win conditions and boards. I hate that every deck today is just trying to end on a Dragun, Borrelord, Crystal Wing, Harbinger, Accescode Talker, etc
Pretty sure that was Thomas Morran that was the “Two Trishula” player.
Archetypes are to YGO what colors are to MTG; they're the de facto mechanic that enforces variety, choice and sacrifice in deckbuilding. I also personally think it's more fun when a new set that introduces a bunch of archetypes is announced for YGO and the community discusses what the most optimal ways to build them are and what other cards or engines synergize with them, than when a new core set for MTG comes out and the main discussion is just which already-existing decks the new cards would slot into.
I'm going to hard disagree with that analogy. A more direct comparison in YGO to colors in magic would be element. Each color in magic can do a lot of different things and synergize with many different styles, but they still all have multiple underlying themes. Likewise in YGO each element has a wide variety of playstyles and most are not exclusive to them, just maybe more frequent. You can also mix and match colors because there is some overlap on mechanics, if YGO wasn't so srchetype focussed they could probably do the same thing. Magic has nothing that is comparable to archetypes, the closest would be creature race which is more comparable to the monster type in YGO. Both have synergy within themselves but can do multiple different things depending on the focus, and once again can overlap into other types. Archetypes force a player into slotting certain synergistic cards or risk being suboptimal. that would be like in magic if your goblin cards were ony really effective with other goblins and any other included card made the deck objectively worse, with the same being true for elves, humans and so on.
I agree with you in a case. But here is some of my points. Archetypes doesn't make your creativity limited. Because there are also some archetypes that is considered as engines. And you can always mix archetypes with other archetypes which are engines. For instance, I use a graydle artifact kaijus as one of my main decks. And all of them are archetypes but still I see no one using it. So that's why I built it myself without netdecking. And this deck has a big potential against so many meta decks. So as you can see even though there are archetypes, you can build decks according to your imagination and with a lot of testing. But like I said at the beginning I agree with you in a case and that is archetypes makin you limited unless you don't play casual. Because people are obsessed with winning. Don't get me wrong I also like winning and nobody would ever want to lose a game when they spent that much on some bunch of papers. But just because of this desire to win people copy paste the decks which are almost unbeatable. But if they had wanted to try their best to use their imagination they could have found many other strategies even with archetypes.
I pretty much agree. I dont like how some archetypes are way superior to others, they should give all archetypes more or less some cards over time, which do the same or atleast can counter certain strategies.
Sorry to respond an old video. I use an analog to describe how it feels like to play yugioh with archtypes vs non-archtypes. So, let's imagine that Konami build cars and in the beginning it was up to racers to build the most efficient and fast build card out of scrap pieces. Now 20-30 years forward and Konami pumping out Lambos, Aston Martins, Bugattis and such. You get to choose from two to three different parts to build this car you race at the tournament that are tailor made for the car. Some parts might work with other parts but you rarely can mix and match them as you see fit. examples being, Cat Monk and Dino Rabbit at their prime. Fun for their standards but Konami didn't anticipate those being so good.
What Konami wishes is a constant flow of money and by keeping people from stagnating with older card they push the power limit to faster and faster gears. You rarely see decks from decade ago performing well against decks from today. Tele-DAD can't keep up with something like Purrley or Dragolinks. This means that it's very likely that your Aston Martin which you bought for 200k from a fellow car enthusiast has value of zero. It performs perfectly against other cars from that same era and functions perfectly.
This means you realisticly have handful of options: A) You get a new car that can race as well against similar competition. Netting you a loss. B) Be smart this time and dump the car to a sucker who doesn't know any better. Which makes the game look like a crypto scam in long run when this tactic is found out, or C) You get people to play cards from certain banlist and never upgrade anything. Making it an unofficial format by itself.
So how does this have to do with the archtypes? Let's say that if you had only the card names and the abilities were more generic. Like Destiny Draw counting every single HERO card instead of D-HEROes. The game would become much more open for experimenting and tinkering. Yes, there would still be 3-5 decks that would be there and it wouldn't solve the competetive problem, but for a casual player it wouldn't force them to dedicate to the game that much. Meaning that I would have to be a millionaire or a scammer if I wanted to be on the top tier gameplay where decks can cost easily over thousands of dollars. If yugioh had more similar cards to the Ash Blossom the game would be much more long lasting and healthier for everyone. Or atleast give a vibe to normies who doesn't play the game and even they can build something to somewhat stand their grounds to the best deck.
without of memes man-eater bug is involved in I'm actually surprised it's not an archetype yet
I miss these old crazy brews like HAT and such. Other games are able to balance having archetypal synergies with actually being able to play other cards. Not so exclusive you are basically required to run nothing but archetypal cards for it even to work or be worth running.
I found a guy on edopro says no link / xyz / synchro
Fusion only and old school yugioh
(I dueld him with my dragoon guru deck)
RIP
😂
@@cylash. i played red- eyes and dark magician and flip monsters with lots of traps as old school as it gets
@@Aktheman77 nice
Ive been playing since yugioh started and old emper-yata was my favorite deck but guess what... that format was broken and very uncreative once everyone found out your deck needed 37 staples and had a solid 3 spots to flex. Yugioh now a days may be insanly faster but it is a lot more creative. We have gravekeeprs to thank for being the first real archetype!
lol creative please now you have to do months of research to even understand wtf half the cards even do now to even know what your playing against if you havent played in years back in day you knew wtf the cards did cause they were easy to grasp and common enough now you got 50+ archetypes you need to kno otherwise your oppoeant will be speed running thru their turn and your going wtf is going on
@@mastergamerx Agreed , there is just SO much you have to know to keep up. In saying that you can just do what i do and any time your opponent tries to just speed through his plays because he assumes you know what every card he plays does you can simply stop them and insist on reading every card. You have the right to do it and I find it quickly stops them from being elitist a-holes. Also you wouldn't believe how many times someone said " tribute, link summon, link summon, XYZ summon" and I double checked to find that they couldnt make one of those moves at all. Players often cheat or simply don't know their own cards and get away with it. NOT on my watch buddy muwahahahahaha!!!!
I’m in favor of archetypes being a better idea. However, I think smaller archetypes like (previously) Phantom Knights, Sky Striker, and the impending Evil Twins are much better and allow more creativity. They don’t have enough to form a strong deck on their own, so you combine them with other things, even though they synergize perfectly with each other
Pokemon originated from the creator (Satoshi Tajiri's ) love of collecting bugs. In a alternate yugioh universe weevil created Yugioh. =w=
This is why I love Cimoooo’s and Gage’s progression series