The BMW M235i is the E46 M3 Alternative You Never Considered
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- Опубліковано 16 жов 2017
- Looking to buy your first fast BMW, or fast saloon? I bet you're looking at E46 M3s, aren't you? Iconic cars, for sure - but with the youngest of them now 13 years old they are becoming expensive to buy and run.
If you're willing to broaden your search a little bit, there's another BMW you might find yourself enjoying...
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This video was perfect for me. Always wanted an E46 m3 but never liked the idea of the running costs/ reliability. Looking seriously at 235/240 now for when my PCP ends on my current diesel audi piece of shit
Jack did you get it and if so what is your experience? I am also thinking of getting a used 235i after 7 years of an Audi 1.8.... sooo boring :(
Owen Lee got a 240 in the end I love it!
@@JacK-yr8ri do you still have your M240i? How has it been?
@@MRblondeGames had it for 2 years and sold it. Got a new a class now. Did love the car but I mainly drive around a city and the mpg was terrible for that
@@JacK-yr8ri Thanks for the reply, I have a 2017 a class 2.1 diesel and don’t get great MPG figures out of that to be honest. Highest I get around the city is 27. What was the BMW like?
I had a 235, loved it but I did put a Quaiffe diff in it very early on. Transformed the car coming out of a t junction and in tight corners. Well worth the £1700 I paid to have it fitted.
Fantastic review... Very interesting and in-depth. You remind me of an early 00’s Fith Gear presenter! Auto Express should hire you ASAP. Your style of reviewing is awesome.
+Reg Greetham Thanks Reg!
Great video James, glad you enjoyed driving my car.
Also glad you dodged that learner driver and the many tractors :)
+Tom90Y Great car Tom
If you like the auto, you would have loved the 6mt. It's fractionally slower and much more fun and engaging to drive. You should had tried the car in the DSC Off which turns off all the nannies, gives you the tight steering and stiff shocks, and the more linear "Comfort" throttle. It's also the only mode where the eLSD is truly active. All other modes, including Sport+, the diff is open and can result in wonky behavior when trying to slide the car. In DSC Off, it will drift, even without a mechanical LSD. Lastly, the engine noise is half true sound and half a soundtrack broadcast over the speakers. There's no induction pipe from the air box to the cabin.
Not driven the M235i, but have an M135i now. I don't really rate it, the combination of lots of sudden torque at relatively low-revs, open differential and a strange sensation for the rear suspension where it feels like the car is almost twisting over mid-corner bumps make it feel pretty unstable on damp or bumpy roads. With the electronics on it can almost completely dead pedal out of corners, with them off it is INCREDIBLY snappy.
The is made worse as standard in Sport mode because the throttle pedal is INCREDIBLY top-loaded, makes it feel lightning fast on small throttle applications, but then nothing extra in the second half of the throttle travel - I switched it to using the Comfort throttle mapping and Sport chassis settings in Sport mode.
Combine that with completely numb steering and a tendency for the front-end to wash out I find it really hard to trust the car unless conditions are absolutely perfect, which living in Somerset is basically never. Its bloody wide too, also terrible around here with lots of narrow lanes.
Basically its fine to drive around quickly, but as soon as you try to actually push it it all seems to go to pieces. I'd probably like it more if it was a manual, passive suspension and had a limited-slip diff on the back axle, but then I'd be wanting to ditch the turbo engine for a high-reving n/a one instead and then I seem to be describing an E46 M3....
If I got this, I would 100% need to fit an LSD though. The other thing that kind of sucks is it's only like 30lb lighter than a 335i, which is cheaper, more practical and easier to find... the 5" out of the wheelbase makes a huge difference in the handling.
4:11... Pretty sure all of the lower 2 series models with 'M Sport' trim also come with a stagered wheel and tyre setup. My 230i certainly does.
I just bought a very clean example of this car in the US. It's wonderful. . It's stock except for an M exhaust. I love it. It has enough power as is, but there are a number of simple upgrades if I ever get bored. So much fun to drive.
I got a manual M235i 3 weeks ago now and couldn't agree with you more, great review
B3NSYY Poor comparison for me. They just look a bit to famine and the back end doesn’t work. The M2 is the real e46 alternative but there’s something about the e46 that feels awesome that a 235 can’t get near as fast as they are.
+Angelo E The E46's engine is what is most special about it.
I can agree about the looks somewhat but with some of the M performance bits and and the M performance exhaust it makes a massive difference. For an outright performance car or something to take on track the e46 is going to be the better option I imagine but as a road car I do think the 235 is spot on with a couple of upgrades for half the price of an M2 (which i would of course prefer to own) and i don't no if you've driven an M235i but it definitely won't struggle or fall behind the e46 even if the engine isn't quite as special
Angelo E not sure how u r thinkin an e46 is quicker at all than a 235i.. and a 240i is quicker yet... with a tune and a few other small changes ur up n running with current m3/4
Hope you added some bolt-ons and tune ;) . Really wakes this car up from just fun to full on blast to drive. Currently running catless, jb4 w/ ewg control, charge pipe , intake, and when I use an e30 fuel mix this thing becomes a rocket. Our 235's take really well to mods all things considered.
I vote for that shirt.
As each generation of 3 series gets bigger and heavier, the 2 series is more like the old, slimmer 3 series, AND the spiritual successor to the legendary 2002 far more than any current 3, 5 or 4 series is.
I have an e46 M3 for 7 years but needed a daily after stacking up miles, this M235i as a daily I just got is a great 2 car solution
Super good review
Great review! I am a big fan of the e46 m3, but I feel the M235 coupe is on par with that bmw feeling
damn bro you drivin so fast respect
Im considering going from an e46 m3 to this..ive had 6 pre 2002 bmws...time to try out something w a turbo..
good advice
this seating position thing u mention.. is this a LHD thing or did BMW change it for later models?? i have a 2017 240i RHD and i dont notice the seat being off, nor has anyone else who's driven it..
Nice in depth review as always. I am up at Hethel November 17/18th if you are about chap
Had a 2015 w a manual for 2 years. Thought it was good but not great. Have owned more engaging BMWs. Oddly enough, I thought my 2011 335i gave me a more connected experience (better shifter, steering and drove smaller despite longer wheelbase).
Test drove an e46 M3 w a thought to buy it (years ago - when it was about a 3 year old car) and just wasn’t all that impressed really. Not really sure what people are on about. I’d owned an e36 M3 (again when it was about 3 years old) and though down in power, it was a much better driver’s car. It was more nimble, better throttle response, overall dynamics were more sharp and was smaller & lighter.
Jay------------Really enjoy your reviews and test drives. Keep up the good work.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------kp---
Having owned both an M235i and an M2 and a friend owning an E46 I can agree that the M235i is a great daily driver. The engine is strong, the gearbox is decent but doesn't feel very sporty on track. The M2 feels totally and utterly different. The gearbox and stance makes it feel quicker along with the noise of course. When you've driven both the M235i & M2 and go back to the E46 you notice immediately how slow the gearbox in comparison (in auto form) is, the engine doesn't feel as strong and has a much raspier tone. You can get such good deals on M235i's and 240i's now that it does make it hard to justify the M2 but once you drive the M2 you know it's worth the money. I would say I'm gutted they're moving across to the ZF box for the M cars (M5 atm), the DCT in the M2 gives it a much more sportier character than the 235i, it was a smooth nice box but it didn't have any sporting character in my opinion. Here's to hoping not all full fat M products go that route!
Is this suitable for a nearly 21 year old who wants an aggressive sporty feel but also a bit of comfort?
Yes, provided they have the experience to handle the power - it's a car you can get wrong easily
@@AnonymousJ99 I'm 21 and I have one, they are just perfect for that. And compared to the M2 competition (which can slide even with traction fully on) the M235 won't slide by "accident" unless you put it in sport plus, so you can say it's actually "safe" even if you're unexperienced with rwd cars.
Diego Troco Cheers man I’m hoping to get one soon. How much was your insurance if you don’t mind me asking?
@@AnonymousJ99 I'd love to help you with that, but I bought it in Uruguay, I'm not from the UK. Over here we pay insurance based on the market value of the car only. We do not use other parameters such as age like I think you guys do over there. However I can help you out with other stuff you might want to know.
130i 135i are although awsome cars
I had fun with this car
Great car.
I had an identical one, but it was a manual. Absolutely brilliant car. I’ve got an m240 now and the b58 is objectively better than the n55, but lacks the character and charm that the n55 has
M lites are fantastic cars !
Had a M240i just bought my wife a M140i !
Mr Boggy Hope you are aware any BMW enthusiasts in your area will have noticed the two 40i driveway 😂
Mk8 Miller
Right?
It’s a car which is insured 🙄
If it goes it goes, my wife will simply replace it
What a odd thing to say
Mr Boggy Wasn't hinting at saying they're going to be stolen btw 😅 just meant anyone who likes BMWs will love your driveway
nice video, but im after m 240 which i understand , is quicker than lotus carlton to 60 mph and 100 mph . which is truly awesome , from 3 litre unit with 1 turbo its 369 lb /ft or grunt thats the killer in this car, not much at all will keep up with this beast , even i heard that itsfaster than golf r which is saying somthing
The difference is the e46 is, as you pointed out at the beginning, an appreciating classic. If you spent £12k on an e46 you will get a really good one, if you pay £20k for the 235 you will get a pretty ropey one. If you keep them both 5 years. You might end up spending £8k on the m3 in repairs and it might be worth £15k so you'll have lost £1k a year. However a 2014 m235i for 20k will also have issues, let's say you spend £3k on it, and you'll be lucky to get £10k for it in 5 years time. You've lost £13k in 5 years instead of 5 and you've had a cooler and faster car in the meantime. The only other factor is mpg, tax insurance which will be a little more so it depends on how many miles you will be doing in it.
+Crakkajack i think well kept m235i will slow down in depreciation
JayEmm on Cars I doubt it. Look at the prices of m135i. They're down to about £10k for a 2009 one.
+Crakkajack not bad for an 8 year old car. They hold their money better than 320s
The earliest M135i's were '62's and they change hands for 14-16.
ImBarryScottCSS also the next gen 1 series is going to be FWD with optional XDrive.
This should also help the values of the M135i/M140i even more.
Filmed in Wymondham near Norwich?
Great review Jay. I bought an M235i in 2014.. It's a brilliant car. Now looking at the M240i for next spring. I think what people forget is the E46 M3 was a great car in its day. That doesn't make it a great car for today.
Love the idea that I can get this car for cheaper due to depreciation
Another great video, you dont really see them around much do you ?
No, very rare cars by comparison
@@JayEmmOnCars did it have a std diff or a lsd in it?
Regular diff I believe
@@JayEmmOnCars allow 1500 for a Quaife then!!
Sadly the just released front wheel drive 2 series is going to tarnish all proper 2 series that came before it.
That would be the Gran Coupé. Apparently, there will be a rwd version of the new coupe whenever it comes out
if you buy a JB4 chip for M235i it pumps up power + torque to 360-380bhp and same lbft torque. £500 new!
I read somewhere that the M240/140 has a much better engine (water charge cooled?) so can rival a M2 very closely, which uses an older generation unit. Is that true ?
+Sean Cain the 240 and M2 engines are very closely related
No/Kind of. The M2 uses a variation of the N55 found in the M235i, the M240i uses the B58, it is a new engine. Is is much better? No. It's marginally better purely by the numbers, some find it a little lacking in the top end compared to the N55.
Ok thanks for the reply chap. I'm not a huge BMW guy & tend to like their older models much more than the current range. The M240 / M2 / i3 / i8 are probably their only cars that appeal to me that they currently make.
6:30 what about the SLOW marking?
British road rage is far too polite. :D
A budget M3 is a gen 2 e90 330i m sport. 272 bhp n/a ...spend a couple a grand on mods and you’ll have closer driving experience than a blown bmw...they have too much torque you drive them completely differently...
Is that a magic eye shirt?
You’re having us on Jay 😉The E46s M3 is the last and best truly mechanical purists M car especially a manual. They are completely different animals. I on my last purchase drove one of those and a 335i and even an E92 M3 and in the morning of my second test drive the dealer had a very fresh 65 k mileage E46 just in. He asked me if I wanted a quick go for nostalgic reasons 😋so I did and I realised in under a mile I was home. And before 1pm that very day that’s where the E46 M3 went with me 🤝 I have had Mr Vanos install an upgraded oil pump and vanos system £949 well spent for piece of mind and it also adds value. I like your good self had an E46 M3 a few years ago and have owned and drove many others since but until I got back into a fresh E46 I had unwittingly pushed to the back of my mind how utterly brilliant they are .
I think part of the problem is how few "really good" ones are out there
JayEmm on Cars I’ve got one Jay if you want to have it on your channel let me know bro ( on a nice 🌝day tho😉)
Yeah would love to. I did film an E46 M3 video, but never released it as I wasn't happy with the end result
JayEmm on Cars well if you wanted to do another I’m sure Marco would tell you the quality of the car in question 😉👍🏽
Just let me know Marco has my phone number etc without posting it on here 😊👍🏽
This car has only one problem and that's the looks from the B post backwards! You can see that it was originally designed as a hatchback.
Actually... You forgot to mention the 135i coupe
What happened to the back, did someone nudge the designers arm? it's not really a looker is it?
you want more evidence...go to the NBring. See what all the ring rental shops offer as their basic offering....you guessed it stock m235i.
I think the lack of rear tire width hurts this car btw in both the looks and performance dept. 135i has it beat there IMO. Great review Jay
i would call the 228i entry level. but its close
I still prefer the E46 for looks. Interestingly, UA-cam served me up this video next which gives an interesting performance result between the M235i and an E46 M3 CSL - ua-cam.com/video/m8amcRnmYfM/v-deo.html . You pays your money, you takes your choice.
Willow Springs - Streets of Willow lap times
BMW M235i 1:26.37
BMW M3 (E92) 1:27.67
no e46 on there but i dont think it'd b faster than the e92
Why BMW moving away from dual clutch setup? Are they never tried PDK?
+Serpentina Dual clutch is the same as PDK. DCT weighs a lot and is more complex than an auto. Auto boxes are getting a lot better all the time
My roommate has an E46 m3... he likes the 235 better
I wouldn't class the M135i as an entry-level car!
+Rob Booth Automotive Its the top model of the entry level series
Exactly entry level is 218i
If you're looking for an alternative to the E46 M3 BMW Ever considered a Merc or an Audi?
2:50 bullshit. I have driven 2000km in the 2 series (& m2) and knew about this 'issue' - it's a beatup
Yes but its 20k, massive jump from the 10k E46 M3
But with all the fixes you will most likely have to do with an E46 M3 you'll be up to 20k in no time. However, the E46 M3 is FAR better looking than the M235i. Get ready for some grief, open your wallet and buy an E46 M3. Great fun to drive and much better looking. It will increase in value because of the scarcity factor over time (but sooner rather than later) and because it's a legend. The 235i will most likely never have the following the E46 has and most likely will continue to have not to mention that there is the current M2, a real M car, that will always be more desirable than this 235i.
this 100%, also depreciation, you won't lose money on a good E46 M3 from it but you certainly will on the 235i
get an e92 for 12
the car looks too skinny without fender flares and wide tires like the M2, proportions are everything
I think it's the default wheel diameter being 18 inch not helping too. I own a '14 M235i and I'm looking at getting 19s for it, they just do a much better job at filling out those wheel arches and the overall profile of the car.
Those wheels look tiny
What's happening to this Lotus channel!!??
9:52 Lotus content inserted
Haha! But that's almost blasphemous!
+Per-Axel Gjöres It never was a Lotus channel, but fear not there is plenty more Lotus to come
Yes I know, but I think for many of us viewers, Lotus is the point and soul of your channel, and why we want to watch. There are millions of channels about Porsche and BMW and I am frankly not interested...! Good cars, though, I suppose they apparently are. Just so bored of them all. Bring on the Lotuses!
way better than any VW, Audi or Mercedes but ........... you should know better
It’s not a saloon
This is true. Sometimes I don't word good.
M135i is more of an all round car.
Only issue if every Tom, Dick and Harry has a M235i
+S Miller Personally I think the E46 has reached that stage, they're everywhere. A 235 would be different for me
e46 alternative?? it's twice the price.
same price as an e92 ffs
Have you seen prices of late low miles e46s lately?
i have an m3. low mile anything is EXSPENCIVE. mine has 125k which is low for it's age.
There are few things in life uglier than a red bmw.
I wish I could like the M235i/240i as capable and affordable as they are they leave me cold. That's why I'm pulling out the stops and saving for an M2. I believe it is worth it. All people with 235i/240i saying it's not worth it are to my eyes jealous. Everyone who drives or reviews the M2 says the difference is there.
Drive them first and decide for yourself
@@JayEmmOnCars driven M2 only
That's simply not true. There are multiple people who own and/or have driven an M2, who say it's not worth the extra money over an M235/240i. The videos are all over youtube.
@@hartsickdisciple I own a M235 and driven the M2 competition. It's an amazing car, totally different. The thing is, where I live (Uruguay) the price difference between the brand new 240 and the M2 CP is nearly 50.000 USD (yeah, taxes). Therefore it's not a sensible option to go and get the M2 even if it's worth it from a driving perspective, since you also have to spend like double the money on insurance and road tax (which adds up to a total of around 8 grand a year vs the 4 grand you pay for your M235/40i) So yeah, even if you have the money you think twice about it, because being a 155k car means it also takes a higher depreciation hit. So you either lease it or leave it.
The M235 might ne an alternative to the E46 M3, because they are both heavy and no propper sport cars. The bad thing with the 235 is an boring turbo engine with shitty sound.
If you search for a propper sports car and a real classic from BMW, then take the E36 M3.
Marc D. Wut. Clearly you’ve never driven any of them. The E36 is a dog.
how dare you compare that heap of shite to a e46, low revving turbo fed plastic fantastic fake popping heap of white good shite. the e46 is spine-tinglingly brilliant, the throttle talks to you, the engine sings to you and the chassis whispers in your ear ''ive got you'', that 235 should come with an action man in the passenger seat........
+mcspooney I dare because I have had an E46, it is overrated and the 235 is underrated. Yes the E46's engine is full of character, but thats the biggest plus point for the older car