Excellent presentation. I am a retired electrical engineer who has been dabbling in solar and wind power generation for many decades. My non-grid-tie systems have been small due to the usual high costs and lack of technology. To give a point of reference, I power my garage (mechanical, welding, metal and woodworking shop equipment), outbuildings with refrigerator and freezer, and all outside electrical needs. Basically everything but the house. Now that solar grid-tie equipment is legal, feasible and cheaper by the watt than in the past, I am going to take the plunge and put a system together for my entire property. You have done exactly the same system I want for mine. I subscribed to your channel for more solar videos. Thank you.
I have been debating solar power for a while now and have been watching hundreds of videos for research. This has been HANDS DOWN the most informative video series I have seen to date. I appreciate you sharing your info with me.
The most important thing to me that makes the cost worth it is you learn how to provide power on your own. The cost for power will continue to rise even when power companies have surplus. In my area we were informed there will be brown outs implying shortage and going to raise the bill but then against people installing solar. If you are interested in doing solar but worry about cost then start with a smaller project it is rewarding and it is a good skill to learn. It is also a fun project.
2022 when I’m writing this. I want to thank you for this video. I’m designing a grid tie only system for my house and I needed to see this video. Fabulous description of how solar panel energy can overcome grid impedance and flow backwards through the meter. Nice job explaining that. Thank you. I was the student 5 years after you first published this!!! Smile.
Good to see actual outputs from the system and not just the advertising spiel. You can set up the inverter to supply the house during an outage but it adds a lot of cost to put the isolater and changeover switches in. The most cost effective way is to just live with the odd outage and buy a generator so you have backup power even at night. If you hook it up to your house supply, you will still need a grid isolator anyway.
The 'newish' SMA SB5.0-US or SMA 6.0-US are grid tie string inverters that will output 2kW emergency power direct from your array during daylight hours if the grid fails without any storage. I bought the 6kW for around $1320 2016-17. I have installed 3 units and they are very solid and well engineered with 3 MPPT channels each. BTW excellent video...one of the best I've seen... I run a small home/hotel and reduced my cost from $13000/yr to $3200/yr with a DIY 10kW system with tracking for $23000 Actual estimated return of cost
Thank you for posting this comment. I was just getting ready to order a few grid tied inverter and didn't like the idea of having solar but no power during outages. I know this comment is two years old but my family will have power when power goes out because you posted.
We have a 3.5 kw system that I installed almost 5 years ago. This system cost about $15,000. I saved about $3500 by installing it myself. After the Federal rebate it cost about $8,500. In talking to a property appraiser, solar systems are somewhat like swimming pools and you get about 50% return if you sell. Our system produces almost all the power we need. We saved approximately $900 the first year. Instead of having $8,000 in the bank making 1% ours is on the roof making about 11% tax free. Our electric rates are increasing almost 6% per year. So is solar a good technology? I think it is.
stevebrannon69 - I live in Southern California, a few days ago attended a presentation for solar where I learned our commercial power utility is the most expensive in the country, and rates are going to skyrocket in the next 5 years. Will likely pull the trigger on a no-up-front-cost leased solar system in the next few days. Monthly cost is projected to be roughly the same as what goes to the utility company now, and it WON'T go up. It really irks me that the system shuts down if the grid goes down. But if lucky, the cost of adding a battery backup will continue to drop, and it can be retrofitted at a future date.
Mekratrig Be very cautious with a leased system. There were companies in Northern California doing some very disreputable things with leases. The homeowner ended up paying way more for the lease than they ever would just from the utility company. I recall there being a number of lawsuits in process, but I never followed up to see how they ended.
Thank you for the clear explanation. Electricity overwhelms me at times, and most other don't explain the process sequentially like you just did, explaining each step on the way. Now, to find funding...
Find funding??? If you can't afford to buy it then it is not worth doing. Paying interest on solar is like paying off one credit card with another one. SAVE UP THE MONEY before you buy solar or anything else in life.
Hey is definetly confused on some details and half truths on others... You will actually lose more production running DC to the house that far, instead of putting the inverter at the array and making a long AC run. While his Voltage drop example isn't wrong, it doesn't paint the whole picture. The way they ran it does save them upfront install cost due to lower gauge wire use, but it lost them a very slight production gain from the other settup.
Good explanation on how Grid Tie works. I'm running Off Grid with changeover switch to Grid. Expanding setup but currently 1K4 PV with 8K7W Batteries backup. A battery system is the way to go.
Well done video. As a master electrician with a background in physics and engineering I have however chosen to not become involved with any system that does not include on site storage. Having been involved with co-generation in various forms from small rural windmills to industrial heat reclamation projects since the early eighties I have seen the mandated beginnings of ‘net metering’ all the way to the current phase out of that model. That mandate occurred during the era of mechanical metering and the added cost of dual metering made most small installations unfeasible at that time. I disagree, as a matter of principle, that taking advantage of modern electronic metering which makes possible grid ties feasible, and thus using the grid as ‘storage’ is not a fair and equitable system under net metering. Obviously the courts and regulators agree with my position as net metering is now on the way out. The proper analysis in my position is always grid tied for reliability, net zero draw from the grid under normal operations, and on site storage for management of the differential between electrical generation and load times. This of course comes at a significantly higher initial investment and longer payback. As examples of my rational I offer disagreement about your statement regarding selling excess production to your neighbor. If that is your goal then you should route your own cables to your neighbor’s property. Using the grid instead takes unfair advantage of the utility company’s infrastructure and is also an unfair usurpation of the company’s business model of producing electricity at wholesale and selling at retail like all other free market capitalized businesses. Plus utilities may be monopolies, but they are very much regulated monopolies. They, like all other businesses, are entitled to charge for their services and make a profit for the shareholders albeit regulated under government oversight. One very big fallacy of solar is hidden in that need to store that energy. We are making it when it is not needed. Dumping it to the grid is actually a very poor choice for a myriad of reasons besides the unfairness of the net metering issue. It is a logistical night mare for grid operations on a system that was engineered and constructed to transport power from a centralized source to distributed loads. Things were ok when only a handful of installations were involved and thus net metering made some sense. But with more widespread adoption of the technology these points I am raising have become critical issues. In addition your description regarding the inverter’s ability to manage the direction of power flow is a very good analog of what is occurring but not technically accurate. I suggest you familiarize yourself with the concept of power factor in electrical circuits. You very clearly have the basic understanding of electricity to grasp and add this concept to your tool kit. Once so you will realize that the electronics management utilizes phase angle to perform its management of power flow. Again, we’ll done and thank you for consideration of my position.
I was listening the whole video for the "ugly truth" and didn't hear it. Maybe you need to re-title this video to Solar Basics or something like that. And thank you for doing this.
@@meauxjeaux431 It's definitely true that it's smart to increase your home's efficiency before investing in solar, but I don't think a 10-12 year payback is bad. What else can one invest in that will actually pay for itself and generate significant profit over it's life span? 7-10% a year return is on par with the stock market although it doesn't compound. The upside is there's no risk. You have a warranted product that is guaranteed to produce power for 25+ years. As utility rates go up, your benefit increases. Solar actually requires very little maintenance and you can often extend inverter warranties up to 25 years. Sounds like your sales person didn't do a very good job of setting your expectations realistically.
@@heathkearns1378 I don't think there are many companies small or large that would accept a 12 year payback on any investment. Even working in manufacturing with tight margins a 5 year payback was acceptable, in Oil and Gas it is usually less. If the companies won't accept 12 year payback why should the little guy accept that burden.
@@pobvic Yeah I can't argue that business has different benchmarks for making an investment. Although I think you underestimate people's interest in the social and environmental benefits, as well as marketing opportunity sustainability provides. On an individual household level though, people spend $20k+ on home improvements like bathroom and kitchen remodels every day. The payback is experiential, not financial. Solar is both.
@@heathkearns1378 I wasn't trying to knock peoples interest in the enviroment. But I think the prices are being kept high by excessive and sometimes outdated code restrictions and policies. As for marketing, I don't think you would recoup the cost of the install in added value to your home when selling.
Perhaps not Ugly truth more of this is how it works :) good video! I have 17kW on my roof with 100kWh battery bank and can work all year now. I cover 100% 10/12 months if power goes out. Last 2 months i will survive but not without lowering consumption. Its worth mentioning that we have not changed our useage and during winter we only get 10% compare to summer..... Solar is very interesting but there are so many systems out there so its easy to get fooled if you dont know what you are working with.
and you did not divulge how much that cost you , of course its tens of thousands , enough to give the ordinary man a heart attack . and will take decades to break even .
Very nice job explaining grid tied solar, one of the best! FYI, my (8k) hybrid, off grid system will payback in 12 years. The number one reason to have an off grid system is for self reliance. I will have power even if there is a zombie apocalypse.
Wait a minute. Geeky solar panels? Perfectly describing parallel/series? Cheesy cutaway attempts at jokes? Masterfully using water flow to describe voltage and current??? You are a fellow EE, aren't you? :-) Excellent video. I particularly enjoyed that you showed the structural components of your array. Nice in-focus, steady and clear shots of the undercarriage stuff. Great job at describing the complex setup in easy to understand terms.
Easily looks like something I could do. Just bought 1.4acres in rural Kentucky and want alternative energy for my property. Not too happy about tieing to the grid.
Great video, thanks! Awesome setup, just what I would have if I ever decided take the plunge. It appears you have a water tank under your panels to rinse them. Many people don't realize that even a light haze of dust can rob you of 10-20% of your panel's output, so they must be cleaned often and endlessly.
Not true. Light dust only reduces the generation by 2-3% as most of the dust is blown off during winds and hence dust does not accumulate. Now if you are in a very heavy dust area, yes, there will be 20% off but is unlikely to be that dusty in residential areas
@@shrujanamsyama9940 Solar panels are at their best in dry, sunny semi-arid or arid climates. They don't fare well in rainy or cloudy areas. Dust goes with dry, sunny areas. Personally, my area is so damp that algae grows on the glass, and it takes a lot of scrubbing 3-4 times a year to get the green slime off. In a month's time, my panels can go from almost full rating to about 85% until I scrub the algae off. If I had a lot of panels, I couldn't keep up.
@@Bob_Adkins Algae growth is different from dust. Algae are plants and can grow to cover entire surfaces. But dust doesn't just grow like that. Even in dry areas like in the deserts, the amount of dust tend to be low as most of the finer top soil is eroded and the thicker particles don't cause much of a dust. The thicker, natural dust in dry areas only reduces the solar intensity by a maximum of 10% as after that the dust reaches a saturation point. The major dust problem arises near mining quarries, construction sites etc where fine particles of dust tend to fly around sticking to surfaces. This type of dust can reduce solar power significantly.
@@Bob_Adkins Bob, I have to respectfully disagree. I work for a solar company in central KY doing installs and tech work. We tell our customers to wash them once a year if they can (roof mounts can be dangerous). I have seen plenty of dusty/dirty/ algae covered systems that are still running full production when it’s bright out. (15% is a little exaggerated). They’re surprisingly resilient. But.. because you were in the 4th ID your pretty cool in my book
Very informative video and thanks of all of your efforts. For those of you hating on the cost of solar try to think of all the money you have wasted over the years, if you purchased a new vehicle the value dropped as soon as you drove off the lot, and yes I see lots of people driving shiny new pickup truck and they are not all for work. What he is doing is not only good for the environment but also good for our country, less money to the middle east, The cost of electricity is only going up, my power company ups its rates every November 40 percent for the winter months. My neighbor is putting in a big system and using the Tesla batteries and is cutting the cord off the grid, he said he has had enough. In my part of the country houses are very expensive and 20 to 30 grand in the big picture is not that bad and unlike the grid solar is coming down in cost. Again thanks for your great video.
most of the inverters on the market today have a single outlet feature that will have power during a blackout from the grid. They are not designed to supply enough power for your whole house, but enough to run a fridge, medical equipment etc. These have been around for a while now, I don't know when your system was installed, but video was uploaded October 2017, these inverters have been around since 2016. I do know it's hard for the average person to know whats available, mainly because the industry moves so quickly, also the agent selling the system doesn't bother learning what the options are for every component.
I have a 3.2K grid-tied system, which works perfectly fine when the grid is down. I have a switch box which disconnects the system from the grid when I throw the lever. This is one of the reasons I chose a grid-tied system, after experiencing quite a few down-times from our rural electric co-op.
Thanks for this nice video. I would like to mention that many meters today will not run backwards wth this system and you need an agreement with your electric company to get credit back and they credit you back with a pathetically small fraction of what they charge for their electricity, so be sure to get all those details from your electric company before taking this plunge. Also remember that rates may change over the years.
Good video. I just went solar and I figure I will get a 45% return on my money over the life of the system. Been two months now and I am very happy with it.
I'm researching getting solar for my house. I am going to shoot for about 60% because I only pay 7500 in taxes every year and won't get a the full 30% rebate if I do 99%. Did you have any problem with the rebate, or have you done that yet? Also, if the meter runs a positive balance for the month the power company doesn't actually send you a check right? It is just credited? Thanks if you can respond.
Jeff Kline I had no problem with the tax credit. You know you can split the tax credit if need be. This year you’ll get a 30% credit but next year I believe it will be 20% federal credit. As far as production I receive a credit on the bill if I don’t use the power I produce. The electric company does not pay me. Of course that is in Massachusetts and may be different in other states. In Massachusetts we do have the smart solar program which they will pay me for the production of electricity for ten years and then it ends. You really need to search your state for any incentives and programs available to help you go solar.
Also factor in inflation and Power price hikes(greed) you will pay it off much faster. Power rates keep increasing insainely, solar systems are very smart investments. Great video thank you!
I like your video. You had a ground mount installed, trenching, inspection, installation, racking, wire and battery storage for $2.52/W? ($23,000/9,100W) That is the best deal I have every heard in my life! Awesome.
No battery. That's just for the grid tie system. I retrofitted a battery backup inverter and 24kWh of FLA batteries for $6k more. But even still, I think I got a good deal on the install. So many comments here of people saying I got ripped off! lol
@@FarmCraft101 Even with the adder for the storage, your only at $3.18/W. We should go into business together! HA! We will have everyone going Solar at this pricing.
A few months ago, we put in a SMA 5.3 Kw system. We bought the secure power option. Instead of shutting down the system to avoid the anti-islanding situation, the system diverts the power to one outlet with 2000w available. We just had hurricane Irma blow through and lost power for 4 days. The secure power system worked like having a 2K generator that worked from 9am-6. This might be a half-way solution. It's much cheaper than putting in the battery backup but obviously we had to use a generator at night.
I remember looking at an inverter that had that option. Sunny boy? Yeah, that's a cool feature. I'm hoping in the future all the grid tied systems will have outputs like that. How does it work on a partly cloudy day where the sun is going in and out?
The inverter is the only thing between the panels and the meter, hence the inverter senses the grid is down and stops functioning, in other words the inverter shuts down and the DC (direct current) generated by the panels continues to flow as a circuit. Last, the company prevents islanding by working with local governments to create codes for installation. Therefore, if your system is rogue, your house will become an island and feed back to the power pole and possibly hurt someone.
LUIDA93 Such bullshit. They all have FVDs in their belts and around their neck to detect any foreign or unknown voltage. The codes and laws are there to keep their fucking profits rolling in.
Your thoughts are on track. There is always some loss of energy as friction, also known as resistance, which causes heat. This is how heaters work. Intuitively, this means that while flowing as a circuit, they do loose some power, but consumption is irrelevant. The job of the solar panels is to make a reaction within them, just like batteries, and create electricity. Because the panels are connected to the terminals of the inverter or batteries, there can be a connection between the negative and positive wire, creating a circuit. (It is important to note that in a DC system, energy is always flowing in one direction, in a loop, therefore we call it a circuit when energy can flow freely though both hot wires - positive and negative) Back to the workings of the panel. If there is a circuit, the panels will continue to produce electricity because the electrons have a path to take and some energy will be lost as heat. Otherwise, if there is no load to feed, the electrons in the panels are happy ( with their ideal number of electrons ) and do not create a current.
I don't doubt that they have ways of seeing that someone is creating a current, but there is truth to what they are saying. When repairs are needed, the parts and lines have to be disconnected and if someone is back feeding, it becomes a dangerous task. That being said, it does benefit the power company a lot, and they do like to play with our pockets. So for them to be able to justify this just sweetens the deal.
Thanks for the informative video. I like the way the panels are mounted away from the bldgs, but I've seen some stones thrown by mowers and even vandals break glass and panels. I think I would have the panels mounted higher, and be able to used underneath as shelter from the elements. I'm not sure where all the pop-up suggestions were coming from but they were too numerous and obnoxious.
Thats a good point. Im getting a system & live in a area where ppl love destroyig other peoples things. My panels are going to be high on the roof.My sun side faces away from the front sidewalk.
Nice that you have the property for the array that isn’t sitting on your roof! Well produced and thoughtful presented. I’m hoping the pricing will become more affordable over time with new technologies and products entering the market.
Finally, someone who knows what they are talking about. In New York, my neighbor just had a "free" roof-top solar system installed by a company who claimed the government was offering this amazing deal. They even did her roof over before installing the panels. I suspect she's in for a rude awakening when she starts looking at her Con Edison and solar energy invoices.
With the new inverters, they simply disconnect from the grid during power outages, but you still get power until the sun goes down, unless you also have batteries, then it never goes out, but batteries are expensive, a generator is much cheaper than batteries.
Hi Being on the grid there are monthly cost you would have to add. Here in Alberta are monthly charge for electricity is cheap it’s the monthly fees just to be hooked to the grid. Example out of a $200.00 bill 50.00 to 60.00 is the electricity charge the rest is fees. So in my case without money conversion 17,000.00/60.00= 23 years to pay for it self. On grid you could use no power and you would still have a ton of fees depending on where you live. Thanks for listening.
The very best thing about a grid tied solar system is getting to sell the power you generate with your own equipment back to the power company for not even a fraction of what they would sell it to you for...
I had a battery backup for a short time. They were way too expensive but I needed it because the power went down a lot. And the batteries need to be replaced every 5 years at great expense. Wasn't worth it.
It depends on what kind of batteries you get. Exide Heritage G batteries ( they're about 3 feet tall, 2 feet wide ) have an expected duty life of 50 years. The average Joe probably can't get those. They are used in commercial phone offices for their battery back ups ( that's why old home phones would always still work when the regular power went out ). A Tesla Powerwall would be a better solution when the 2nd generation of those are released, but even then, they only have a 10 year warranty, and will probably be around $5,000.
If it has battery backup, then it is a hybrid system, not a grid tied system. Grid tied means just that, grid tied, no backup. Off grid is off grid with backup. Hybrid is a combination of the two. ua-cam.com/video/gPycyuVJ_Cg/v-deo.html
@Jeremy H. The Powerwall does have a 10 year warranty, however their warranty is superior to many of their competitors because it is for unlimited cycles during the 10 year period. Other manufacturers limit the number of cycles as well put a fix calendar term on their battery storage warranties.
Thanks for this input. We have an off grid cabin but have been looking for something for our home. Our eastern horizon is 20 miles away and our western horizon it between 45 and 100 miles. I wired the home with a sub panel with all the critical things except the pump. I think I’m going to just get batteries and power the subpanel with solar. Our cabin has a 48v 4Kw inverter and 8 months a year we run on the sun. It is off the road and we have a freezer and washing machine there.
We are about to purchase a solar array kit (12 panels, I believe? 3.6kW) and your video is very instructive and helpful! I understand amperage, wattage and inverters much better now. Thank you for posting it.
I liked the explanation right up to the discussion of optimizers, where I disagree. My take on optimizers, is that they are good for when there is an under-performing panel, also optimizers and microinverters, can give you information via apps. I didn't see any trees or anything else to block the sun and your system is accessible. Your panels already get the same amount of sun and you can visually inspect for and clean, dirt and snow. If you see poor system performance, you can test circuits to find a bad panel. 3 string-disconnects may help with that too. At 50-$70 each, plus the installation, you may have paid as much as $3000 for an unnecessary component, especially since you seem to be a hands-on person. The max residential voltage is 600v, so you could have done 2 strings.
The main reason is I purchased my solar as part of a cooperative, meaning I get a great deal on the price, but I have to take their "standard" installation setup. I didn't have an option of picking a different inverter or eliminating optimizers. That being said, I see on my monitoring dashboard that all the panels don't actually generate the same. While the differences are slight, without the optimizers I would be pulled back to the lowest panel, which would add up over time. It will also make a difference if snow or leaves, or even bird poop gets on some of the panels periodically. It's nice that it monitors my panel output for me automatically, as I have many, MANY other things that I am constantly monitoring on the farm. Thanks for watching!
I have two solar systems running side by side each with 12 Trina 230watt panels. The older Xantrex inverter beats the newer SolarEdge inverter every day.
if you had been able to use micro inverters at each panel would have cost a bit more than the optimizers. 120 for inverters vs 60.. so they would have cost you a bit 1800 for the micro inverters. meaning smaller wire to the house from the array. This would have eliminated the central inverter so pretty much break even. If a micro inverter dies.. you are only looking at perhaps 150 bucks vs 2000 for a new central inverter.
@@stevepailet8258 but with micro inverters you would never have access to the DC power to charge batteries directly! Meaning if the grid goes down you still have access to the panels power! Microinverters would cut you off...
@@SolarizeYourLife interesting . because one does not have to install the entire system with micro inverters easy enough to run some panels unconverted dc so one could do heating of water or run a charge controller. From what I am seeing they now have some hybrid inverters that will allow for running off of batteries even though one is connected to the grid. My thinking is that with fore thought one can install a smaller charge controller and separate inverter just for pulling power for things like minimal lighting and refrigeration. I think that people tend to think in a linear fashion rather than in what might be closer to 3d chess
Good to see you on solar in Australia 6.5 kilowatts installed $ 2995 which is 2058 American dollars at the moment, any way prices are coming down for lithium battery's and windmills everyone should be making there own power.
Over 8 years you are bound to have failures and maintenance, extending the pay for itself time. Off grid is way more convenient. It's really all about the actual voltage you truly need. Great video.
nice video, however, grid-tie is only effective if the electric company you associate buys back the electricity at a reasonable rate which most do not give competitive pricing for they will charge you more for using their electric than clearly what you sell them. also if you place your grid close to the usage area the cost of wire digging and etc is greatly reduced. when buying complete systems many times the companies will include a tax incentive package but increase the price of their system so they make a greater profit at your expense using part of the tax break as a selling point but profiting from it themselves.
I can finally understand how the solar system (this kind) works! Very detailed, very informative, all components involved, etc. Thanks you for your time.
Interesting, thanks! Would you consider experimenting with covering panels to see how much the optimizers help? You seemed uncertain of the improvement they claim to provide.
The optimizersbdo work with the solar edge system, I have installed 1000,s of systems and of all types. You only need optimizers or a micro inverter(enphase) if you have a shading conditon. Iif I did have a shading condition I would personally stay away from solar edge due to in my own experience 3 out of 5 fail (mother board fries). Good video nailed most of details right, getting those conductors in a conduit and not fmc/lfmc(flexible conduit) would like much cleaner. And as far as the disconnect, you don't need a disconnect per wire(phase) you get a disconnect that has the proper poles and throws for your application.
Its not just a claim Optimizers do help... I wouldn't recommend an install without them, they aren't cheap but good long term. Especially if you have a system with monitoring software, easy troubleshooting if one panel stops performing.
$4000 panels, $2000 inverter, $1000 mounting and cables, $2000 work. $9000 total. If you want it on a tilted roof instead of a field you can probably add another 3k for the complexity. $23000 for the system is bonkers.
@Omar Williams You should watch the video again. He was talking about the grid tied system with the mentioned price, the inverter with dc charger plus batteries are additional upgrades.
Good video. The inverter forces power back on the grid by adjusting the phase angle of the inverter sine wave compared to the grid sine wave. A leading phase angle will force power onto the grid and lagging phase angle will let the grid put power into the inverter.(not good, boom!) I'm getting ready to build a barndominium and will put panels on my metal roof in a similar setup. I'll have 1300 sf of South facing roof. The panels will shade my roof and make for shorter wire runs.
It appears that the panels could have been installed much closer to the house, therefore using a smaller length of wire (cheaper and less voltage drop). I'm guessing these were placed farther away for aesthetics.
I would use higher voltage on the solar panels maybe not 48 volts but 96 volts instead. you could even wire the home for DC instead of AC and no inverter needed. AC DC motors would work for appliances and most electronics already run on DC you just need to install Voltage Regulators.
I get more like 2% assuming 360VDC, 6KW (17amps) Avg power and copper. My super spreadsheet form Home Power Mag shows a 7 yr payback to upsize to #6 @@joeturnip4216
Yes, if you lose an optimizer it will not affect any other modules. I've been running SE since 2011, it's a good setup. My other system is off grid/intertie, if the grid goes down that system powers my home with ~10.5 kWh of battery.
Where I live, the utility company re-scheduled the rates such that the power during peak sun hours in the summer is worth about 1/50th of the power at night, per KWh. So, if you produce a surplus of 100 KW per hour during the 8 peak daylight hours, but use 2.5 KW per hour during the other 16 hours, that's a net, "break even," as far as KWh usage.
If you do some homework, and do most of the install yourself and paying someone to do the plans ($300), and the certified wiring/permit ($1000), I did my 4KW solar system this way for $3200 and should break even in 3.2 years, now 6 months in and I am still on track to break even. Most quotes I got was for $9K~$11K with rebate of $3K and break even at 9.5 years. Knowing this, your paying the solar company a lot of money for your lack of knowledge.
Hello ozzy, could you elaborate on how did you achieve that or point/link me to any good direction in order to get deal done in a similar manner? I'm also looking into solar, and well prepared to put the work by myself; but truly it seems that the ammount of homework (/reseaeching for available options, set ups, products etc) before one gets to make a decent informed decision is humongous
@@TheLiasas The key I mentioned is knowledge and DIY. Since I am not certified to wire the project, I would pay someone to do that and the plan. The other thing is looking around for the right equipment for the right price. Here is one place that I look for deals www.sunelec.com 786-565-9359 MAIN OFFICE 305-322-1086 , i am on their email list for when the really hot deals come along. Less than $100 per solar panel, and to save on shipping i will drive an hour or two. I think the number one failure is the inverter, so don't go to cheap in that department, or run it at max (say 4KW solar driving 4KW inverter). There is some free training on solar instal, basically, they have you go on real jobs (your volunteering work for the free training). Also join solar forums, to ask questions before purchasing anything. Check out google sunroof, enter a address down the street from you (haha), enter your electric bill and the choose purchase. It will give you a good idea of the side system you need, but i would go bigger (say they say3KW, I would go 4KW, its not that much more $).
@@user-rs8zg8ey2b that's a neat idea about volunteering the help install I'm getting free education. If that's the sun Electric in Florida I bought 50 panels from them they were great.
Very good one.. But wonder why you captioned it as 'Ugly' truth ! It is safety which it provides and yes it is meant for areas where Grid power is considered to be available during day time without much interruptions ! There is some inconvenience that when Grid power is not available (due to outage or load-shading), your solar panel in a sunny whether are of no help to provide you power.. That got be lived with and that is truth !
Well, most people would think if you have solar panels and the sun is shining, you would have power. With a grid tied system, that's not the case if the grid is down.
FarmCraft101 it's up to you. I do use my grid tie system even when grid is down. The only thing is that you start this manually. You need to disconnect from the grid via breaker and make your own sine wave inside the house. Inverter will pick it up just fine.
Yeah, how could there be an island anyway if there is no power coming from the power plant? Anti-islanding must be in case only 1 line is down or somehow the inverter picks up a signal.
If it has battery backup, then it is a hybrid system, not a grid tied system. Grid tied means just that, grid tied, no backup. Off grid is off grid with backup. Hybrid is a combination of the two. ua-cam.com/video/gPycyuVJ_Cg/v-deo.html
+FarmCraft101; there is also off grid/no backup. Direct use of dc power can even run motors. They just go slower and can have the right torque by using variable gear ratios.
no, optimizers are DC-DC converters. Here is a copy of an also late reply I made earlier : no, optimizers work at the DC level 'in series' together feeding a central inverter at up to 500 Volts DC delievring your 240V AC line. With Micro Inverters each panel, sometimes a few lower wattage panels together, deliver AC line voltage (240) in parallel. Let's say a panel delivers 250W. The panel itself delivers that DC at say 25 Volts, 10 Amps (10*25=250) a micro inverter will convert to AC at 240 Volts with some losses at 1 Amp (for 240 *1 = 240W). Fine. Now 1 panel gets shaded and delivers only 20% = 50 Watts. Well, the Micro-inverter will simply just deliver a shade under 0.2 Amp now for almost 50 watts. In the optimizer case, all the other panels still want to push 10 Amps, and the shaded one follows this by only delivering 5 Volts instead of its nominal 25 V as 5*10 = 50 is all it can deliver. How? By using a DC to DC converter!
Great video, clear/easy to follow your explanations. I watched it because I'm trying to understand why too much solar power could destabilize the grid system(that's what we are told). So far I have not found any sound technical reason. But I can see that it impacts the economics of power companies.
I'm getting a system of the same size as you put in here in South Australia but I'm getting a 12KwH battery too and we can run it during a blackout. It comes with blackout protection and we can nominate two rooms in the house to keep live in a blackout. Handy feature really.
I found this video to be quite interesting, and some of the comments as well. My problem with going to a solar system, would be with warranty and getting anything out of said warranty. One viewer/commenter (before me) stated that the company that made his inverter was bought out by another company, and is refusing to honor the warranty or even share the schematic diagrams so that someone else could attempt to fix it. Having gone thru ordeals involving roofing, automobiles, snowblowers, etc., and seeing how many "warranties" aren't worth the paper they are written on, leaves me sort of gun-shy to take a leap into such a venture as power generation. Don't get me wrong... Kudos to those who do commit, and best wishes for a trouble-free operation.... But....
I share your concerns about warranties. Thankfully with solar, the panels and wire/installation are the majority of the cost, and historically they tend to last well beyond their warranty. They've gotten pretty good at making the panels. The inverter, you kind of have to consider it a consumable. Thanks for watching.
Solar City the entire system is warranted for entire length of loan to purchase the system, but 20 year, and covers inverter, solar panels and a warrantee for your roof against leaks. Had my inverter fail, and they replaced it at no cost in two days.
That's great. What brand inverter was it? Meaning... if the brand name that made your inverter either goes belly-up, or gets bought out by someone else, is there any guarantee that the new owner of the company will honor the warranty of your product? I'm pretty skeptical of warranties anymore.
as farmcraft101 said, just think of the inverter as an electric consumable like a tv. it can last anywhere from 5-10 years (can also last 15-20 years, just depends). you can buy cheap ones on amazon and cross your fingers, or buy through a large brand name or brand name solar distributor who may warranty the products they sell (like buying coverage on a tv at best buy). prices range from $500-2000 depending on size. if you just need one to power your backyard mancave that just houses a few panels, $100 will do. the panels/wiring itself won't die if installed correctly. yes lightning could hit it or a tree could fall on it but any physical damage is pretty unlikely. they key is how much are you paying for electricity monthly. if it's less than $100 per month, don't worry about solar. if over $100 then solar would be a good 'long term' investment. if over $200 then it's definitely worth it given how cheap solar is nowadays ($10/watt installed 10 years ago to under $2/watt installed now).
If you calculated an 8.5 year break even point, how does that line up with the typical lifespan of the solar panels? It wouldn't be good if they failed prior to or shortly after you break even.
My solar panels I bought a few years back were warrantied to produce 80% of their original power output after 25 years. 50% after 50 years. They last a good long while, there is no moving parts after all.
My system is 5 years old, only recently the inverter was killed from a lightning strike, our inverter was a 2.8kw Zantrex inverter, those are no longer made since Synider bought them out, I can't get spares or a replacement, also no one makes 2.8kw, there is 2.5 and 3 and 4 and 5 etc.. My power company said if I change to a 3kw inverter I will lose my current rebate 54cent and be put on a 4cent rebate, if I go to 2.5kw I can keep my 54cent rebate. Losing an inverter can cost you more then the replacement when you are stuck with technology that cant be fixed. We have been without it now for about 3 weeks and I have been missing out on 15-20kw each day since.
As one who has taught himself to design electronic circuits....I would design a grid simulator to trick the inverter to continue to work when the grid goes down. I would add a redundant relay system to protect line workers with an auto safety lock-out extra protection to disconnect from the grid. Basicallt...No grid means that there is no way that my power can get on the grid.
I'm at the same point. I've built my own 18650 battery back up system at 48V and about to have a 9000W system installed. I've been looking at the Schneider as well as the Outback for my system. The DIY powerwall group I belong to, no one discusses final assembly of their system and what equipment they use and why they chose that equipment, which in my mind is the most important part, I'm really looking forward to the next video, and if it is already out please provide me a link....I can't find it in your list.
Hi, we are planning off grid and going with 8k. We are building, welding, cutting metals, heat lamps, grow lamps and all the appliances in a home. The home will be 2-40' containers and a mother in law suite 2-20' containers and a small farm. Do you have a diagram of your work or what products was used and will be used in your upgrades. Thanks for your help.
@@globalmuffin2 chill brother we need some shade to. You could set up a small animal abattoir under the panels for eating your neighbours pets when the food gets scarce 🦮🐩🐈🐹🐇👍
It's an unnatural eye sore!!! A money grabbing scam. And introducing massive amounts of toxic waste do to the HIGH failure rate of the inefficient panels. Now go hug a tree and apologize for helping to kill the planet.
Great video. However, I have a SMA grid tied system that provides 1500W during an outage. As I have had this for two years, I am sure that there are even more options out there.
Well done video. It hits the technical stuff without being overly technical and confusing. The title is a bit much - the truth is just that - not sure it's ugly. For the safety of a lineman who might be working on power lines to restore service, systems shut off AC power back to the grid if they don't detect incoming power. Looking forward to the battery video. To answer the question of how utilities deal with excess generation, my example is this. My utility (XCEL) gives me the choice of whether to bank the extra wattage produced and use it later or to receive a check once a year at wholesale rates. I started with he latter and then switched over to banking it. That works better for my situation.
Yep. People grossly underestimate that amount of work and material that is involved in installing the system. You don't just buy the panels and an inverter. There's a lot more equipment and a LOT of work. Thanks for watching.
This is a ground based install so expected to be cheaper (you can get inverters now that have a second output that still provides power to a separate isolated circuit in event gid fails (so you can runs things like fridge and lights off it as long as there is enough sun)
I think the price of wiring is exaggerated in this video. True, it's not cheap. But the advantages offered by off-grid installs only require another $1 per foot, so spending a few hundred bucks on thicker 8/3 copper is not a significant add-on cost if you're already spending something like $20K+ on the panel hardware. Unless you're forced to install things the way the utility company demands to get that tax incentive/subsidy credit ... a lot of places don't reward you for going off the grid.
At any rate, you're helping save natural gas coal for future use! Side note- America should rid of 120 v, yes America uses a split 120/120 v power box, and go strictly 240 v to all outlets! You don't need to bring three wires into a house you would only need two, that's a cost-saving right there!!! We could have double power with 240 v. On the same outlets that you have now! 120 v is plain stupid wasteful... Just curious but why are the panels so far away from your house?
Very well explained! I know all that but trying to explain it to people who don't understand electricity can be a chore. Someone should make (probably already does) a bypass system that disconnects the grid from the system when the grid fails and run the panels through a separate inverter to run the house during a power failure. Without any batteries it would go down every time a cloud went over and batteries may not be worth it. I don't know about your grid but ours doesn't go down more than once every 5 years or so so it's no big deal.
@@JosEPh-zy3yr Santansolar.com they have deals all the time! I bought a whole case of 25, but you can buy one of the time cheap! They ship and they are packed with precision!
I have a SunnyBoy inverter that gives me 10 amps at 120 VAC when the grid goes down, on a separate outlet. That's plenty to run the fridge while the sun shines. Not as resilient as a backup battery, but FREE!
I installed a homemade DC 120 Volt system on the roof of my home in 2001. Lead acid battery system from deep cycle batteries. Solar thermal air conditioner too. Only 8KW new and has lost maybe 16% over the years. Cleaning has to happen twice a year. Have had some traces corrode and have had to repair at least 5 times. Yet it was worth the investment. I wonder how today's systems compare.
Its a waste of time and money to have optimisers on your installation, 30x optimisers are not cheap. Optimisers are only really effective when there are likely to be shadows on some of your panels, i.e one panel with a shadow will bring down all the other panels that are in series with it (but not affect those in parallel), therefore reducing overall efficiency. But in your case, with all the panels unshaded at all times then this isolated shading of one panel will never happen. When its cloudy then all the panels will be shaded at the same time and the optimisers will make next to no difference. At best you are getting a 1 or 2 % improvement with your setup and thats a huge payback period for those 30x optimisers.
yeah, that was a huge unnecessary expense in a system like this guys; clearly no trees or other common obstructions around and a unified direction system mount)
The optimisers on solar edge give independent solar cell monitoring (but i agree on this type of setup on the ground solar edge is less important) but solar Edge dc to dc modules has ark and cut/disconnected cable protection (all dc to dc modules drop to 1v each witch is safe to handle) also the modules you can have any wattage size solar panels or have a dead or under performing panel it have no effect on the total system and you can see right away when one of your solar panels are not generating as much as the others With a typical string system as he said in the video only takes one panel to be not working correctly to bring all the others down as well (efficiency wise) and you will not know which panel it is unless you have a thermal imaging camera to see which panel is hotter or colder than the others which solaredge you just whip out your mobile phone or computer and look at the solar edge website which is monitoring all your panels and inverter and if the installer did it correctly you should have a layout of your install on the website as well so you can instantly know witch panel is not working correct (or faulty dc to dc module)
@@leexgx Very well explained. They also claim to have some mppt performance to best condition volts/amps for optimum inverter performance. That's one reason SolarEdge inverter is smaller than other string inverters. So the OP is really suggesting an entirely different low tech string system. Don't forget about ice, dirt, bird poop, dew, snow, uneven aging....
There is so much wrong with this video. The voltage doesn't simply go up by a "tenth of a volt". It goes up depending on where the current ends up. If all the power is going to your home, then the voltage rises by the voltage differential required to push current to your home appliances (the voltage drop through a conductor). If it's being pushed to the grid, then you have to use the grid impedance to calculate the voltage rise. Also, inverters are very good at what they do, they convert DC to AC at efficiencies greater than 96%. Also the inverter is running 360Vdc, which means that the positive and negative are 360V apart, and so it's only bringing it down from 360V to 240V not 120V.
The inverter lifetime is ~10 years. The panel performance falls off something like 0.8 to 0.9% per year on average. Factor in how much you are able to extract sufficient energy from sunlight and how clouds reduces this and it might be more difficult to recover your costs than assumed but I applaud your taking this on and trying it.
Excellent presentation. I am a retired electrical engineer who has been dabbling in solar and wind power generation for many decades. My non-grid-tie systems have been small due to the usual high costs and lack of technology. To give a point of reference, I power my garage (mechanical, welding, metal and woodworking shop equipment), outbuildings with refrigerator and freezer, and all outside electrical needs. Basically everything but the house. Now that solar grid-tie equipment is legal, feasible and cheaper by the watt than in the past, I am going to take the plunge and put a system together for my entire property. You have done exactly the same system I want for mine. I subscribed to your channel for more solar videos. Thank you.
I found 6 85amp hour caravan batteries was ok for me on my own in a off grid system.
I have been debating solar power for a while now and have been watching hundreds of videos for research.
This has been HANDS DOWN the most informative video series I have seen to date.
I appreciate you sharing your info with me.
A location with Daily Direct Sunshine from sunrise to sunset is extremely important for this to work ...
@Allen Loser Unfortunately not. It's a bit one sided and Solar powers little brother electricity is kind of angry all the time.
Who did you get in a debate with?
The most important thing to me that makes the cost worth it is you learn how to provide power on your own. The cost for power will continue to rise even when power companies have surplus. In my area we were informed there will be brown outs implying shortage and going to raise the bill but then against people installing solar. If you are interested in doing solar but worry about cost then start with a smaller project it is rewarding and it is a good skill to learn. It is also a fun project.
2022 when I’m writing this. I want to thank you for this video. I’m designing a grid tie only system for my house and I needed to see this video. Fabulous description of how solar panel energy can overcome grid impedance and flow backwards through the meter. Nice job explaining that. Thank you. I was the student 5 years after you first published this!!! Smile.
Good to see actual outputs from the system and not just the advertising spiel. You can set up the inverter to supply the house during an outage but it adds a lot of cost to put the isolater and changeover switches in. The most cost effective way is to just live with the odd outage and buy a generator so you have backup power even at night. If you hook it up to your house supply, you will still need a grid isolator anyway.
The 'newish' SMA SB5.0-US or SMA 6.0-US are grid tie string inverters that will output 2kW emergency power direct from your array during daylight hours if the grid fails without any storage. I bought the 6kW for around $1320 2016-17. I have installed 3 units and they are very solid and well engineered with 3 MPPT channels each. BTW excellent video...one of the best I've seen...
I run a small home/hotel and reduced my cost from $13000/yr to $3200/yr with a DIY 10kW system with tracking for $23000 Actual estimated return of cost
Thank you for posting this comment. I was just getting ready to order a few grid tied inverter and didn't like the idea of having solar but no power during outages. I know this comment is two years old but my family will have power when power goes out because you posted.
How did you go about solar tracking with 10kw of panels? Very interested in learning more about solar tracking on larger systems!
We have a 3.5 kw system that I installed almost 5 years ago. This system cost about $15,000. I saved about $3500 by installing it myself. After the Federal rebate it cost about $8,500. In talking to a property appraiser, solar systems are somewhat like swimming pools and you get about 50% return if you sell. Our system produces almost all the power we need. We saved approximately $900 the first year. Instead of having $8,000 in the bank making 1% ours is on the roof making about 11% tax free. Our electric rates are increasing almost 6% per year. So is solar a good technology? I think it is.
Agree. It's nice when it's good for the environment and your pocketbook at the same time!
stevebrannon69 - I live in Southern California, a few days ago attended a presentation for solar where I learned our commercial power utility is the most expensive in the country, and rates are going to skyrocket in the next 5 years. Will likely pull the trigger on a no-up-front-cost leased solar system in the next few days. Monthly cost is projected to be roughly the same as what goes to the utility company now, and it WON'T go up.
It really irks me that the system shuts down if the grid goes down. But if lucky, the cost of adding a battery backup will continue to drop, and it can be retrofitted at a future date.
Mekratrig Be very cautious with a leased system. There were companies in Northern California doing some very disreputable things with leases. The homeowner ended up paying way more for the lease than they ever would just from the utility company. I recall there being a number of lawsuits in process, but I never followed up to see how they ended.
Mekratrig NO! DO NOT LEASE!! You will regret it!
stevebrannon69 until the electric company and paid for politicians change the law...arizona florida utah. and screw you over.
Thank you for the clear explanation. Electricity overwhelms me at times, and most other don't explain the process sequentially like you just did, explaining each step on the way.
Now, to find funding...
Wait, electricity overwhelms you sometimes? Does that mean you get shocked often o something?
Find funding??? If you can't afford to buy it then it is not worth doing. Paying interest on solar is like paying off one credit card with another one. SAVE UP THE MONEY before you buy solar or anything else in life.
Better explained than my college professor. This fella is smart and articulate
You did an excellent job of explaining technical aspects of a solar installation.
So nice to hear someone who actually knows what he's talking about. Interesting vid
If you think he "KNOWS" what hes talking about, wait til a real solar installer takes the mic.
Hey is definetly confused on some details and half truths on others...
You will actually lose more production running DC to the house that far, instead of putting the inverter at the array and making a long AC run.
While his Voltage drop example isn't wrong, it doesn't paint the whole picture.
The way they ran it does save them upfront install cost due to lower gauge wire use, but it lost them a very slight production gain from the other settup.
This is one of the best videos I've watch in explaining a solar system. Great job.
Absolutely BY FAR the best explanation of the system without extraneous information.
Robert Doell I agree
I agree. Much more information
Good explanation on how Grid Tie works. I'm running Off Grid with changeover switch to Grid. Expanding setup but currently 1K4 PV with 8K7W Batteries backup. A battery system is the way to go.
Well done video. As a master electrician with a background in physics and engineering I have however chosen to not become involved with any system that does not include on site storage. Having been involved with co-generation in various forms from small rural windmills to industrial heat reclamation projects since the early eighties I have seen the mandated beginnings of ‘net metering’ all the way to the current phase out of that model. That mandate occurred during the era of mechanical metering and the added cost of dual metering made most small installations unfeasible at that time. I disagree, as a matter of principle, that taking advantage of modern electronic metering which makes possible grid ties feasible, and thus using the grid as ‘storage’ is not a fair and equitable system under net metering. Obviously the courts and regulators agree with my position as net metering is now on the way out. The proper analysis in my position is always grid tied for reliability, net zero draw from the grid under normal operations, and on site storage for management of the differential between electrical generation and load times. This of course comes at a significantly higher initial investment and longer payback. As examples of my rational I offer disagreement about your statement regarding selling excess production to your neighbor. If that is your goal then you should route your own cables to your neighbor’s property. Using the grid instead takes unfair advantage of the utility company’s infrastructure and is also an unfair usurpation of the company’s business model of producing electricity at wholesale and selling at retail like all other free market capitalized businesses. Plus utilities may be monopolies, but they are very much regulated monopolies. They, like all other businesses, are entitled to charge for their services and make a profit for the shareholders albeit regulated under government oversight. One very big fallacy of solar is hidden in that need to store that energy. We are making it when it is not needed. Dumping it to the grid is actually a very poor choice for a myriad of reasons besides the unfairness of the net metering issue. It is a logistical night mare for grid operations on a system that was engineered and constructed to transport power from a centralized source to distributed loads. Things were ok when only a handful of installations were involved and thus net metering made some sense. But with more widespread adoption of the technology these points I am raising have become critical issues. In addition your description regarding the inverter’s ability to manage the direction of power flow is a very good analog of what is occurring but not technically accurate. I suggest you familiarize yourself with the concept of power factor in electrical circuits. You very clearly have the basic understanding of electricity to grasp and add this concept to your tool kit. Once so you will realize that the electronics management utilizes phase angle to perform its management of power flow. Again, we’ll done and thank you for consideration of my position.
I sincerely appreciate your effort putting this video together. And actually telling us how much the system costs.
I was listening the whole video for the "ugly truth" and didn't hear it. Maybe you need to re-title this video to Solar Basics or something like that. And thank you for doing this.
It's very expensive.
@@meauxjeaux431 It's definitely true that it's smart to increase your home's efficiency before investing in solar, but I don't think a 10-12 year payback is bad. What else can one invest in that will actually pay for itself and generate significant profit over it's life span? 7-10% a year return is on par with the stock market although it doesn't compound. The upside is there's no risk. You have a warranted product that is guaranteed to produce power for 25+ years. As utility rates go up, your benefit increases. Solar actually requires very little maintenance and you can often extend inverter warranties up to 25 years. Sounds like your sales person didn't do a very good job of setting your expectations realistically.
@@heathkearns1378 I don't think there are many companies small or large that would accept a 12 year payback on any investment. Even working in manufacturing with tight margins a 5 year payback was acceptable, in Oil and Gas it is usually less. If the companies won't accept 12 year payback why should the little guy accept that burden.
@@pobvic Yeah I can't argue that business has different benchmarks for making an investment. Although I think you underestimate people's interest in the social and environmental benefits, as well as marketing opportunity sustainability provides. On an individual household level though, people spend $20k+ on home improvements like bathroom and kitchen remodels every day. The payback is experiential, not financial. Solar is both.
@@heathkearns1378 I wasn't trying to knock peoples interest in the enviroment. But I think the prices are being kept high by excessive and sometimes outdated code restrictions and policies.
As for marketing, I don't think you would recoup the cost of the install in added value to your home when selling.
Perhaps not Ugly truth more of this is how it works :) good video!
I have 17kW on my roof with 100kWh battery bank and can work all year now. I cover 100% 10/12 months if power goes out. Last 2 months i will survive but not without lowering consumption. Its worth mentioning that we have not changed our useage and during winter we only get 10% compare to summer.....
Solar is very interesting but there are so many systems out there so its easy to get fooled if you dont know what you are working with.
Decent size system. Soon to have another 30kWh of battery storage :)
Wow! For that cost, wouldn't it be cheaper to run a LPG generator and have a very large tank?
Hope this will store your excess energy so you don't buy back at retail price.
Spend as much as you can afford as it will pay dividends in the end. Electricity company prices rising every year.
and you did not divulge how much that cost you , of course its tens of thousands , enough to give the ordinary man a heart attack . and will take decades to break even .
I like the ironridge racking quite a bit! It's super easy to use.
Very nice job explaining grid tied solar, one of the best! FYI, my (8k) hybrid, off grid system will payback in 12 years. The number one reason to have an off grid system is for self reliance. I will have power even if there is a zombie apocalypse.
Thank you so much for making this video. I think I’ve watched it like four times as i mull over Whether or not to get solar for my house
Wait a minute. Geeky solar panels? Perfectly describing parallel/series? Cheesy cutaway attempts at jokes? Masterfully using water flow to describe voltage and current??? You are a fellow EE, aren't you? :-)
Excellent video. I particularly enjoyed that you showed the structural components of your array. Nice in-focus, steady and clear shots of the undercarriage stuff. Great job at describing the complex setup in easy to understand terms.
Easily looks like something I could do. Just bought 1.4acres in rural Kentucky and want alternative energy for my property. Not too happy about tieing to the grid.
EE electrical engineer right? I'm guessing he's likely a JM as he actually has a working system not just a badly designed mess lol
@@middletonrei8719 Then don't. Too many regs & costs. Go fully off-lind and add wind power sys. too
Great video, thanks! Awesome setup, just what I would have if I ever decided take the plunge. It appears you have a water tank under your panels to rinse them. Many people don't realize that even a light haze of dust can rob you of 10-20% of your panel's output, so they must be cleaned often and endlessly.
Not true!
Not true. Light dust only reduces the generation by 2-3% as most of the dust is blown off during winds and hence dust does not accumulate. Now if you are in a very heavy dust area, yes, there will be 20% off but is unlikely to be that dusty in residential areas
@@shrujanamsyama9940 Solar panels are at their best in dry, sunny semi-arid or arid climates. They don't fare well in rainy or cloudy areas. Dust goes with dry, sunny areas. Personally, my area is so damp that algae grows on the glass, and it takes a lot of scrubbing 3-4 times a year to get the green slime off. In a month's time, my panels can go from almost full rating to about 85% until I scrub the algae off. If I had a lot of panels, I couldn't keep up.
@@Bob_Adkins Algae growth is different from dust. Algae are plants and can grow to cover entire surfaces. But dust doesn't just grow like that. Even in dry areas like in the deserts, the amount of dust tend to be low as most of the finer top soil is eroded and the thicker particles don't cause much of a dust. The thicker, natural dust in dry areas only reduces the solar intensity by a maximum of 10% as after that the dust reaches a saturation point. The major dust problem arises near mining quarries, construction sites etc where fine particles of dust tend to fly around sticking to surfaces. This type of dust can reduce solar power significantly.
@@Bob_Adkins Bob, I have to respectfully disagree. I work for a solar company in central KY doing installs and tech work. We tell our customers to wash them once a year if they can (roof mounts can be dangerous). I have seen plenty of dusty/dirty/ algae covered systems that are still running full production when it’s bright out. (15% is a little exaggerated). They’re surprisingly resilient.
But.. because you were in the 4th ID your pretty cool in my book
Very informative video and thanks of all of your efforts. For those of you hating on the cost of solar try to think of all the money you have wasted over the years, if you purchased a new vehicle the value dropped as soon as you drove off the lot, and yes I see lots of people driving shiny new pickup truck and they are not all for work. What he is doing is not only good for the environment but also good for our country, less money to the middle east, The cost of electricity is only going up, my power company ups its rates every November 40 percent for the winter months. My neighbor is putting in a big system and using the Tesla batteries and is cutting the cord off the grid, he said he has had enough. In my part of the country houses are very expensive and 20 to 30 grand in the big picture is not that bad and unlike the grid solar is coming down in cost. Again thanks for your great video.
most of the inverters on the market today have a single outlet feature that will have power during a blackout from the grid. They are not designed to supply enough power for your whole house, but enough to run a fridge, medical equipment etc. These have been around for a while now, I don't know when your system was installed, but video was uploaded October 2017, these inverters have been around since 2016. I do know it's hard for the average person to know whats available, mainly because the industry moves so quickly, also the agent selling the system doesn't bother learning what the options are for every component.
I have a 3.2K grid-tied system, which works perfectly fine when the grid is down. I have a switch box which disconnects the system from the grid when I throw the lever. This is one of the reasons I chose a grid-tied system, after experiencing quite a few down-times from our rural electric co-op.
Thanks this has been one of the most informative videos I have found on grif tied solar so far
Easily one of the best videos I’ve seen so far regarding solar. Thank you for posting it.
i hope the wind turbines aren't giving you cancer too
Thanks for this nice video. I would like to mention that many meters today will not run backwards wth this system and you need an agreement with your electric company to get credit back and they credit you back with a pathetically small fraction of what they charge for their electricity, so be sure to get all those details from your electric company before taking this plunge. Also remember that rates may change over the years.
Good video. I just went solar and I figure I will get a 45% return on my money over the life of the system. Been two months now and I am very happy with it.
I'm researching getting solar for my house. I am going to shoot for about 60% because I only pay 7500 in taxes every year and won't get a the full 30% rebate if I do 99%. Did you have any problem with the rebate, or have you done that yet? Also, if the meter runs a positive balance for the month the power company doesn't actually send you a check right? It is just credited? Thanks if you can respond.
Jeff Kline I had no problem with the tax credit. You know you can split the tax credit if need be. This year you’ll get a 30% credit but next year I believe it will be 20% federal credit. As far as production I receive a credit on the bill if I don’t use the power I produce. The electric company does not pay me. Of course that is in Massachusetts and may be different in other states. In Massachusetts we do have the smart solar program which they will pay me for the production of electricity for ten years and then it ends. You really need to search your state for any incentives and programs available to help you go solar.
@@TechnMoto Thanks for the info!
Jeff Kline hope it helps. Are you in Massachusetts?
Techn' Moto Texas.
I learned a lot from this video...thanks for the time you took to make it. Much apprciated!
Really good explanation- thorough and with just enough technical terms. Perfect- many thanks for this effort! Sweet system and really nice property!
One of the best explanations out there of how a solar system works, and the positive financial impact of residential solar systems.
Also factor in inflation and Power price hikes(greed) you will pay it off much faster. Power rates keep increasing insainely, solar systems are very smart investments. Great video thank you!
I like your video. You had a ground mount installed, trenching, inspection, installation, racking, wire and battery storage for $2.52/W? ($23,000/9,100W)
That is the best deal I have every heard in my life! Awesome.
No battery. That's just for the grid tie system. I retrofitted a battery backup inverter and 24kWh of FLA batteries for $6k more. But even still, I think I got a good deal on the install. So many comments here of people saying I got ripped off! lol
@@FarmCraft101 Even with the adder for the storage, your only at $3.18/W.
We should go into business together! HA! We will have everyone going Solar at this pricing.
A few months ago, we put in a SMA 5.3 Kw system. We bought the secure power option. Instead of shutting down the system to avoid the anti-islanding situation, the system diverts the power to one outlet with 2000w available. We just had hurricane Irma blow through and lost power for 4 days. The secure power system worked like having a 2K generator that worked from 9am-6. This might be a half-way solution. It's much cheaper than putting in the battery backup but obviously we had to use a generator at night.
I remember looking at an inverter that had that option. Sunny boy? Yeah, that's a cool feature. I'm hoping in the future all the grid tied systems will have outputs like that. How does it work on a partly cloudy day where the sun is going in and out?
The inverter is the only thing between the panels and the meter, hence the inverter senses the grid is down and stops functioning, in other words the inverter shuts down and the DC (direct current) generated by the panels continues to flow as a circuit. Last, the company prevents islanding by working with local governments to create codes for installation. Therefore, if your system is rogue, your house will become an island and feed back to the power pole and possibly hurt someone.
LUIDA93 Such bullshit. They all have FVDs in their belts and around their neck to detect any foreign or unknown voltage. The codes and laws are there to keep their fucking profits rolling in.
Your thoughts are on track. There is always some loss of energy as friction, also known as resistance, which causes heat. This is how heaters work. Intuitively, this means that while flowing as a circuit, they do loose some power, but consumption is irrelevant. The job of the solar panels is to make a reaction within them, just like batteries, and create electricity. Because the panels are connected to the terminals of the inverter or batteries, there can be a connection between the negative and positive wire, creating a circuit. (It is important to note that in a DC system, energy is always flowing in one direction, in a loop, therefore we call it a circuit when energy can flow freely though both hot wires - positive and negative)
Back to the workings of the panel. If there is a circuit, the panels will continue to produce electricity because the electrons have a path to take and some energy will be lost as heat. Otherwise, if there is no load to feed, the electrons in the panels are happy ( with their ideal number of electrons ) and do not create a current.
I don't doubt that they have ways of seeing that someone is creating a current, but there is truth to what they are saying. When repairs are needed, the parts and lines have to be disconnected and if someone is back feeding, it becomes a dangerous task. That being said, it does benefit the power company a lot, and they do like to play with our pockets. So for them to be able to justify this just sweetens the deal.
oh man..wish my teacher had told me about water hose idea to explain Volts and amps. I'm 37 and now i get it!
Thanks for the informative video. I like the way the panels are mounted away from the bldgs, but I've seen some stones thrown by mowers and even vandals break glass and panels. I think I would have the panels mounted higher, and be able to used underneath as shelter from the elements.
I'm not sure where all the pop-up suggestions were coming from but they were too numerous and obnoxious.
Thats a good point. Im getting a system & live in a area where ppl love destroyig other peoples things. My panels are going to be high on the roof.My sun side faces away from the front sidewalk.
Nice that you have the property for the array that isn’t sitting on your roof! Well produced and thoughtful presented. I’m hoping the pricing will become more affordable over time with new technologies and products entering the market.
Finally, someone who knows what they are talking about. In New York, my neighbor just had a "free" roof-top solar system installed by a company who claimed the government was offering this amazing deal. They even did her roof over before installing the panels. I suspect she's in for a rude awakening when she starts looking at her Con Edison and solar energy invoices.
With the new inverters, they simply disconnect from the grid during power outages, but you still get power until the sun goes down, unless you also have batteries, then it never goes out, but batteries are expensive, a generator is much cheaper than batteries.
Outstanding "review", for me on the basics of power and terminology. Cheers.
Hi Being on the grid there are monthly cost you would have to add. Here in Alberta are monthly charge for electricity is cheap it’s the monthly fees just to be hooked to the grid. Example out of a $200.00 bill 50.00 to 60.00 is the electricity charge the rest is fees. So in my case without money conversion 17,000.00/60.00= 23 years to pay for it self. On grid you could use no power and you would still have a ton of fees depending on where you live. Thanks for listening.
You can always sell your surplus and use ev
Maurice you came off like a huge douche with that ending just saying
We are looking into it I. Calgary and it seems not worth it just due to this.
Use small setup
Hi. I am from South Africa.
What are the maintenance costs. I meen how long does this installation s
The very best thing about a grid tied solar system is getting to sell the power you generate with your own equipment back to the power company for not even a fraction of what they would sell it to you for...
WOW !!! This is so wonderfully explained !!!! Fantastic job Sir !!!
There are many grid tied systems that have battery backup as well so one can continue to use the solar even when the power company is down.
I had a battery backup for a short time. They were way too expensive but I needed it because the power went down a lot. And the batteries need to be replaced every 5 years at great expense. Wasn't worth it.
It depends on what kind of batteries you get. Exide Heritage G batteries ( they're about 3 feet tall, 2 feet wide ) have an expected duty life of 50 years. The average Joe probably can't get those. They are used in commercial phone offices for their battery back ups ( that's why old home phones would always still work when the regular power went out ). A Tesla Powerwall would be a better solution when the 2nd generation of those are released, but even then, they only have a 10 year warranty, and will probably be around $5,000.
If it has battery backup, then it is a hybrid system, not a grid tied system. Grid tied means just that, grid tied, no backup. Off grid is off grid with backup. Hybrid is a combination of the two. ua-cam.com/video/gPycyuVJ_Cg/v-deo.html
When you say Hybrid do you mean grid fallback?
@Jeremy H. The Powerwall does have a 10 year warranty, however their warranty is superior to many of their competitors because it is for unlimited cycles during the 10 year period. Other manufacturers limit the number of cycles as well put a fix calendar term on their battery storage warranties.
They have some grid tie inverters out now that one can plug into and still get power in a black out as long as the sun is up. Great video!
@Zaithe "secure power outlet" or similar....
@EyeOfOdin >
You have a really good way of explaining the details of this and making it easy to understand - thanks for the great video!!
You explain things in a very understandable manner. Thank you
Great Info! My grid supplier takes 64 kWh/mo. as their service fee, which is a large % of my small 2.5 KW system's output.
Enjoyed this walk around...we're getting ready to build our home and have space for solar setup...this was helpful
I enjoy your content!
Thanks for this input. We have an off grid cabin but have been looking for something for our home. Our eastern horizon is 20 miles away and our western horizon it between 45 and 100 miles. I wired the home with a sub panel with all the critical things except the pump. I think I’m going to just get batteries and power the subpanel with solar. Our cabin has a 48v 4Kw inverter and 8 months a year we run on the sun. It is off the road and we have a freezer and washing machine there.
300 watt panel does that.produce that per.hr the sun is shining example 4x300 =1200 watts
We are about to purchase a solar array kit (12 panels, I believe? 3.6kW) and your video is very instructive and helpful! I understand amperage, wattage and inverters much better now. Thank you for posting it.
Buy some batteries, costly, but gets you 'off' the grid!
I liked the explanation right up to the discussion of optimizers, where I disagree.
My take on optimizers, is that they are good for when there is an under-performing panel, also optimizers and microinverters, can give you information via apps. I didn't see any trees or anything else to block the sun and your system is accessible. Your panels already get the same amount of sun and you can visually inspect for and clean, dirt and snow. If you see poor system performance, you can test circuits to find a bad panel. 3 string-disconnects may help with that too. At 50-$70 each, plus the installation, you may have paid as much as $3000 for an unnecessary component, especially since you seem to be a hands-on person.
The max residential voltage is 600v, so you could have done 2 strings.
The main reason is I purchased my solar as part of a cooperative, meaning I get a great deal on the price, but I have to take their "standard" installation setup. I didn't have an option of picking a different inverter or eliminating optimizers. That being said, I see on my monitoring dashboard that all the panels don't actually generate the same. While the differences are slight, without the optimizers I would be pulled back to the lowest panel, which would add up over time. It will also make a difference if snow or leaves, or even bird poop gets on some of the panels periodically. It's nice that it monitors my panel output for me automatically, as I have many, MANY other things that I am constantly monitoring on the farm. Thanks for watching!
I have two solar systems running side by side each with 12 Trina 230watt panels. The older Xantrex inverter beats the newer SolarEdge inverter every day.
if you had been able to use micro inverters at each panel would have cost a bit more than the optimizers. 120 for inverters vs 60.. so they would have cost you a bit 1800 for the micro inverters. meaning smaller wire to the house from the array. This would have eliminated the central inverter so pretty much break even. If a micro inverter dies.. you are only looking at perhaps 150 bucks vs 2000 for a new central inverter.
@@stevepailet8258 but with micro inverters you would never have access to the DC power to charge batteries directly! Meaning if the grid goes down you still have access to the panels power! Microinverters would cut you off...
@@SolarizeYourLife interesting . because one does not have to install the entire system with micro inverters easy enough to run some panels unconverted dc so one could do heating of water or run a charge controller. From what I am seeing they now have some hybrid inverters that will allow for running off of batteries even though one is connected to the grid. My thinking is that with fore thought one can install a smaller charge controller and separate inverter just for pulling power for things like minimal lighting and refrigeration. I think that people tend to think in a linear fashion rather than in what might be closer to 3d chess
Good to see you on solar in Australia 6.5 kilowatts installed $ 2995 which is 2058 American dollars at the moment, any way prices are coming down for lithium battery's and windmills everyone should be making there own power.
Over 8 years you are bound to have failures and maintenance, extending the pay for itself time. Off grid is way more convenient. It's really all about the actual voltage you truly need. Great video.
nice video, however, grid-tie is only effective if the electric company you associate buys back the electricity at a reasonable rate which most do not give competitive pricing for they will charge you more for using their electric than clearly what you sell them. also if you place your grid close to the usage area the cost of wire digging and etc is greatly reduced. when buying complete systems many times the companies will include a tax incentive package but increase the price of their system so they make a greater profit at your expense using part of the tax break as a selling point but profiting from it themselves.
:-) your power meter is in the witness protection program...
yot dj8⁸⁸
Fromm
Very good presentation. Very simple language so any one without engineering background can understand it.
I can finally understand how the solar system (this kind) works! Very detailed, very informative, all components involved, etc. Thanks you for your time.
Great video! Anyone else notice that at 4:14 his house windows look like a standard 110v outlet?
miguel ortiz Ha ha ha! I think you hit Peak Geek with that one.
Interesting, thanks!
Would you consider experimenting with covering panels to see how much the optimizers help? You seemed uncertain of the improvement they claim to provide.
The optimizersbdo work with the solar edge system, I have installed 1000,s of systems and of all types. You only need optimizers or a micro inverter(enphase) if you have a shading conditon.
Iif I did have a shading condition I would personally stay away from solar edge due to in my own experience 3 out of 5 fail (mother board fries).
Good video nailed most of details right, getting those conductors in a conduit and not fmc/lfmc(flexible conduit) would like much cleaner.
And as far as the disconnect, you don't need a disconnect per wire(phase) you get a disconnect that has the proper poles and throws for your application.
BattleJohnson if you won’t use optimizers and did have a shading problem, what can be done other than moving the panels?
Its not just a claim Optimizers do help... I wouldn't recommend an install without them, they aren't cheap but good long term. Especially if you have a system with monitoring software, easy troubleshooting if one panel stops performing.
could you show a breakdown of the cost of the $17,000 system?
most of it is for the solar panels. i planned and installed systems like that about 10 years ago.
$4000 panels, $2000 inverter, $1000 mounting and cables, $2000 work. $9000 total. If you want it on a tilted roof instead of a field you can probably add another 3k for the complexity. $23000 for the system is bonkers.
@Omar Williams You should watch the video again. He was talking about the grid tied system with the mentioned price, the inverter with dc charger plus batteries are additional upgrades.
Dude super educational and straight to the point no selfi fluff
Good video. The inverter forces power back on the grid by adjusting the phase angle of the inverter sine wave compared to the grid sine wave. A leading phase angle will force power onto the grid and lagging phase angle will let the grid put power into the inverter.(not good, boom!) I'm getting ready to build a barndominium and will put panels on my metal roof in a similar setup. I'll have 1300 sf of South facing roof. The panels will shade my roof and make for shorter wire runs.
This video was absolutely perfect for what I wanted to know. Thank you for this
It appears that the panels could have been installed much closer to the house, therefore using a smaller length of wire (cheaper and less voltage drop). I'm guessing these were placed farther away for aesthetics.
I would use higher voltage on the solar panels maybe not 48 volts but 96 volts instead. you could even wire the home for DC instead of AC and no inverter needed. AC DC motors would work for appliances and most electronics already run on DC you just need to install Voltage Regulators.
or you just save yourself all that bullcrap and drop in a few solar panels into your existing system
The voltage drop on 8 gauge wire @ 300 feet is only about 0.31 %.
I get more like 2% assuming 360VDC, 6KW (17amps) Avg power and copper. My super spreadsheet form Home Power Mag shows a 7 yr payback to upsize to #6 @@joeturnip4216
Nice system. I'm leaning toward a 10.2 kw micro-inverter system.
Yes, if you lose an optimizer it will not affect any other modules. I've been running SE since 2011, it's a good setup. My other system is off grid/intertie, if the grid goes down that system powers my home with ~10.5 kWh of battery.
Where I live, the utility company re-scheduled the rates such that the power during peak sun hours in the summer is worth about 1/50th of the power at night, per KWh. So, if you produce a surplus of 100 KW per hour during the 8 peak daylight hours, but use 2.5 KW per hour during the other 16 hours, that's a net, "break even," as far as KWh usage.
If you do some homework, and do most of the install yourself and paying someone to do the plans ($300), and the certified wiring/permit ($1000), I did my 4KW solar system this way for $3200 and should break even in 3.2 years, now 6 months in and I am still on track to break even. Most quotes I got was for $9K~$11K with rebate of $3K and break even at 9.5 years. Knowing this, your paying the solar company a lot of money for your lack of knowledge.
Hello ozzy, could you elaborate on how did you achieve that or point/link me to any good direction in order to get deal done in a similar manner? I'm also looking into solar, and well prepared to put the work by myself; but truly it seems that the ammount of homework (/reseaeching for available options, set ups, products etc) before one gets to make a decent informed decision is humongous
@@TheLiasas The key I mentioned is knowledge and DIY. Since I am not certified to wire the project, I would pay someone to do that and the plan. The other thing is looking around for the right equipment for the right price. Here is one place that I look for deals www.sunelec.com 786-565-9359
MAIN OFFICE 305-322-1086
, i am on their email list for when the really hot deals come along. Less than $100 per solar panel, and to save on shipping i will drive an hour or two. I think the number one failure is the inverter, so don't go to cheap in that department, or run it at max (say 4KW solar driving 4KW inverter). There is some free training on solar instal, basically, they have you go on real jobs (your volunteering work for the free training). Also join solar forums, to ask questions before purchasing anything. Check out google sunroof, enter a address down the street from you (haha), enter your electric bill and the choose purchase. It will give you a good idea of the side system you need, but i would go bigger (say they say3KW, I would go 4KW, its not that much more $).
@@user-rs8zg8ey2b that's a neat idea about volunteering the help install I'm getting free education. If that's the sun Electric in Florida I bought 50 panels from them they were great.
Very good one.. But wonder why you captioned it as 'Ugly' truth ! It is safety which it provides and yes it is meant for areas where Grid power is considered to be available during day time without much interruptions ! There is some inconvenience that when Grid power is not available (due to outage or load-shading), your solar panel in a sunny whether are of no help to provide you power.. That got be lived with and that is truth !
Well, most people would think if you have solar panels and the sun is shining, you would have power. With a grid tied system, that's not the case if the grid is down.
FarmCraft101 it's up to you. I do use my grid tie system even when grid is down. The only thing is that you start this manually. You need to disconnect from the grid via breaker and make your own sine wave inside the house. Inverter will pick it up just fine.
Yeah, how could there be an island anyway if there is no power coming from the power plant? Anti-islanding must be in case only 1 line is down or somehow the inverter picks up a signal.
If it has battery backup, then it is a hybrid system, not a grid tied system. Grid tied means just that, grid tied, no backup. Off grid is off grid with backup. Hybrid is a combination of the two. ua-cam.com/video/gPycyuVJ_Cg/v-deo.html
+FarmCraft101; there is also off grid/no backup.
Direct use of dc power can even run motors. They just go slower and can have the right torque by using variable gear ratios.
Technical accuracy of this video is superb, except the "Optimizers" are (as far as I know) simply bypass diodes.
no, optimizers are DC-DC converters. Here is a copy of an also late reply I made earlier : no, optimizers work at the DC level 'in series' together feeding a central inverter at up to 500 Volts DC delievring your 240V AC line. With Micro Inverters each panel, sometimes a few lower wattage panels together, deliver AC line voltage (240) in parallel. Let's say a panel delivers 250W. The panel itself delivers that DC at say 25 Volts, 10 Amps (10*25=250) a micro inverter will convert to AC at 240 Volts with some losses at 1 Amp (for 240 *1 = 240W). Fine. Now 1 panel gets shaded and delivers only 20% = 50 Watts. Well, the Micro-inverter will simply just deliver a shade under 0.2 Amp now for almost 50 watts. In the optimizer case, all the other panels still want to push 10 Amps, and the shaded one follows this by only delivering 5 Volts instead of its nominal 25 V as 5*10 = 50 is all it can deliver. How? By using a DC to DC converter!
Great video, clear/easy to follow your explanations.
I watched it because I'm trying to understand why too much solar power could destabilize the grid system(that's what we are told).
So far I have not found any sound technical reason. But I can see that it impacts the economics of power companies.
I'm getting a system of the same size as you put in here in South Australia but I'm getting a 12KwH battery too and we can run it during a blackout. It comes with blackout protection and we can nominate two rooms in the house to keep live in a blackout. Handy feature really.
You call batteries, "a handy feature". I call it, a financial LOSS. An AC Generator is much more cost effective.
I found this video to be quite interesting, and some of the comments as well. My problem with going to a solar system, would be with warranty and getting anything out of said warranty. One viewer/commenter (before me) stated that the company that made his inverter was bought out by another company, and is refusing to honor the warranty or even share the schematic diagrams so that someone else could attempt to fix it. Having gone thru ordeals involving roofing, automobiles, snowblowers, etc., and seeing how many "warranties" aren't worth the paper they are written on, leaves me sort of gun-shy to take a leap into such a venture as power generation. Don't get me wrong... Kudos to those who do commit, and best wishes for a trouble-free operation.... But....
I share your concerns about warranties. Thankfully with solar, the panels and wire/installation are the majority of the cost, and historically they tend to last well beyond their warranty. They've gotten pretty good at making the panels. The inverter, you kind of have to consider it a consumable. Thanks for watching.
Solar City the entire system is warranted for entire length of loan to purchase the system, but 20 year, and covers inverter, solar panels and a warrantee for your roof against leaks. Had my inverter fail, and they replaced it at no cost in two days.
That's great. What brand inverter was it? Meaning... if the brand name that made your inverter either goes belly-up, or gets bought out by someone else, is there any guarantee that the new owner of the company will honor the warranty of your product? I'm pretty skeptical of warranties anymore.
Stan; I dont think it matters what brand. The warranty was offered by solar city.
as farmcraft101 said, just think of the inverter as an electric consumable like a tv. it can last anywhere from 5-10 years (can also last 15-20 years, just depends). you can buy cheap ones on amazon and cross your fingers, or buy through a large brand name or brand name solar distributor who may warranty the products they sell (like buying coverage on a tv at best buy). prices range from $500-2000 depending on size. if you just need one to power your backyard mancave that just houses a few panels, $100 will do.
the panels/wiring itself won't die if installed correctly. yes lightning could hit it or a tree could fall on it but any physical damage is pretty unlikely.
they key is how much are you paying for electricity monthly. if it's less than $100 per month, don't worry about solar. if over $100 then solar would be a good 'long term' investment. if over $200 then it's definitely worth it given how cheap solar is nowadays ($10/watt installed 10 years ago to under $2/watt installed now).
If you calculated an 8.5 year break even point, how does that line up with the typical lifespan of the solar panels?
It wouldn't be good if they failed prior to or shortly after you break even.
Very true. The panels have a 25 year warranty. The inverter has a 10 year warranty, but it only costs $1200 to replace.
My solar panels I bought a few years back were warrantied to produce 80% of their original power output after 25 years. 50% after 50 years. They last a good long while, there is no moving parts after all.
Good to know. Thanks for the replies.
My system is 5 years old, only recently the inverter was killed from a lightning strike, our inverter was a 2.8kw Zantrex inverter, those are no longer made since Synider bought them out, I can't get spares or a replacement, also no one makes 2.8kw, there is 2.5 and 3 and 4 and 5 etc.. My power company said if I change to a 3kw inverter I will lose my current rebate 54cent and be put on a 4cent rebate, if I go to 2.5kw I can keep my 54cent rebate. Losing an inverter can cost you more then the replacement when you are stuck with technology that cant be fixed. We have been without it now for about 3 weeks and I have been missing out on 15-20kw each day since.
skozzy1968 did you look at fixing the inverter?
Great video thank you!
Thanks!
As one who has taught himself to design electronic circuits....I would design a grid simulator to trick the inverter to continue to work when the grid goes down. I would add a redundant relay system to protect line workers with an auto safety lock-out extra protection to disconnect from the grid. Basicallt...No grid means that there is no way that my power can get on the grid.
to test this optimizer thing, cover a panel and see how the system reacts
No need to test... I'll tell you what happens.
That panel stops producing, but all the other panels keep producing.
Shocker lol
-solar installer
@@probablynotabigtoe9407 how reliable are those? How often need replacing? Just curious.
I'm at the same point. I've built my own 18650 battery back up system at 48V and about to have a 9000W system installed. I've been looking at the Schneider as well as the Outback for my system. The DIY powerwall group I belong to, no one discusses final assembly of their system and what equipment they use and why they chose that equipment, which in my mind is the most important part, I'm really looking forward to the next video, and if it is already out please provide me a link....I can't find it in your list.
Not out yet. Subscribe and hit the bell and you will get a notification. Thanks for watching!
Hi, we are planning off grid and going with 8k. We are building, welding, cutting metals, heat lamps, grow lamps and all the appliances in a home. The home will be 2-40' containers and a mother in law suite 2-20' containers and a small farm. Do you have a diagram of your work or what products was used and will be used in your upgrades. Thanks for your help.
Is it just me or do solar panels look beautiful on a grassy yard
ICFDaveHere I think that too
It’s just you.
they cast a shadow and nothing grows under. it is a black hole. we are heading towards a severe food crisis!
@@globalmuffin2 chill brother we need some shade to. You could set up a small animal abattoir under the panels for eating your neighbours pets when the food gets scarce 🦮🐩🐈🐹🐇👍
It's an unnatural eye sore!!! A money grabbing scam. And introducing massive amounts of toxic waste do to the HIGH failure rate of the inefficient panels. Now go hug a tree and apologize for helping to kill the planet.
Great video. However, I have a SMA grid tied system that provides 1500W during an outage. As I have had this for two years, I am sure that there are even more options out there.
Well done video. It hits the technical stuff without being overly technical and confusing. The title is a bit much - the truth is just that - not sure it's ugly. For the safety of a lineman who might be working on power lines to restore service, systems shut off AC power back to the grid if they don't detect incoming power. Looking forward to the battery video.
To answer the question of how utilities deal with excess generation, my example is this. My utility (XCEL) gives me the choice of whether to bank the extra wattage produced and use it later or to receive a check once a year at wholesale rates. I started with he latter and then switched over to banking it. That works better for my situation.
actually 17 grand isn't bad at all for a system that large. I've seen systems half that size for almost 30K.
Yep. People grossly underestimate that amount of work and material that is involved in installing the system. You don't just buy the panels and an inverter. There's a lot more equipment and a LOT of work. Thanks for watching.
something is off here....
You can build 12.8KWp system for 12000$ (a friend did with some sourcing help)... check sunelec.com for panels
This is a ground based install so expected to be cheaper (you can get inverters now that have a second output that still provides power to a separate isolated circuit in event gid fails (so you can runs things like fridge and lights off it as long as there is enough sun)
I think the price of wiring is exaggerated in this video. True, it's not cheap. But the advantages offered by off-grid installs only require another $1 per foot, so spending a few hundred bucks on thicker 8/3 copper is not a significant add-on cost if you're already spending something like $20K+ on the panel hardware.
Unless you're forced to install things the way the utility company demands to get that tax incentive/subsidy credit ... a lot of places don't reward you for going off the grid.
17,000 $ that's a 17 new iPhones :p price you got yourself a free electricity for life, awesome
Maybe for the rest of his life. Solar panels are said to last like 30 years and they slowly degrade over time.
At any rate, you're helping save natural gas coal for future use!
Side note- America should rid of 120 v, yes America uses a split 120/120 v power box, and go strictly 240 v to all outlets! You don't need to bring three wires into a house you would only need two, that's a cost-saving right there!!! We could have double power with 240 v. On the same outlets that you have now! 120 v is plain stupid wasteful...
Just curious but why are the panels so far away from your house?
Very well explained! I know all that but trying to explain it to people who don't understand electricity can be a chore.
Someone should make (probably already does) a bypass system that disconnects the grid from the system when the grid fails and run the panels through a separate inverter to run the house during a power failure.
Without any batteries it would go down every time a cloud went over and batteries may not be worth it. I don't know about your grid but ours doesn't go down more than once every 5 years or so so it's no big deal.
Already done .. it is called a Hybrid System ...
You gave a good, no-nonsense insight. As I expect from a farmer(!).
Feel like you could've mounted this system with around $6,000
@Richard Vaughn $120 for 320 watt panels now.
@@volador2828 Where???
@@JosEPh-zy3yr Santansolar.com they have deals all the time! I bought a whole case of 25, but you can buy one of the time cheap! They ship and they are packed with precision!
The higher voltage inverters are usually alot more efficient!!
"Solar POWER system"...For clarity.
I have a SunnyBoy inverter that gives me 10 amps at 120 VAC when the grid goes down, on a separate outlet. That's plenty to run the fridge while the sun shines. Not as resilient as a backup battery, but FREE!
I installed a homemade DC 120 Volt system on the roof of my home in 2001. Lead acid battery system from deep cycle batteries. Solar thermal air conditioner too. Only 8KW new and has lost maybe 16% over the years. Cleaning has to happen twice a year. Have had some traces corrode and have had to repair at least 5 times. Yet it was worth the investment. I wonder how today's systems compare.
Thought the ugly truth was
Inverter will need to be changed every 5 years.
Battery back up will have to be changed every 3 years.
If you are killing your deep cycle battery bank every 3 years, then you are doing some wrong
Its a waste of time and money to have optimisers on your installation, 30x optimisers are not cheap. Optimisers are only really effective when there are likely to be shadows on some of your panels, i.e one panel with a shadow will bring down all the other panels that are in series with it (but not affect those in parallel), therefore reducing overall efficiency. But in your case, with all the panels unshaded at all times then this isolated shading of one panel will never happen. When its cloudy then all the panels will be shaded at the same time and the optimisers will make next to no difference. At best you are getting a 1 or 2 % improvement with your setup and thats a huge payback period for those 30x optimisers.
yeah, that was a huge unnecessary expense in a system like this guys; clearly no trees or other common obstructions around and a unified direction system mount)
Exactly! That was my first thought when i saw him pointing at those, and they ruining cost efficiency of the system...
The optimisers on solar edge give independent solar cell monitoring (but i agree on this type of setup on the ground solar edge is less important) but solar Edge dc to dc modules has ark and cut/disconnected cable protection (all dc to dc modules drop to 1v each witch is safe to handle) also the modules you can have any wattage size solar panels or have a dead or under performing panel it have no effect on the total system and you can see right away when one of your solar panels are not generating as much as the others
With a typical string system as he said in the video only takes one panel to be not working correctly to bring all the others down as well (efficiency wise) and you will not know which panel it is unless you have a thermal imaging camera to see which panel is hotter or colder than the others which solaredge you just whip out your mobile phone or computer and look at the solar edge website which is monitoring all your panels and inverter and if the installer did it correctly you should have a layout of your install on the website as well so you can instantly know witch panel is not working correct (or faulty dc to dc module)
@@leexgx Very well explained. They also claim to have some mppt performance to best condition volts/amps for optimum inverter performance. That's one reason SolarEdge inverter is smaller than other string inverters. So the OP is really suggesting an entirely different low tech string system. Don't forget about ice, dirt, bird poop, dew, snow, uneven aging....
each optimizer is about $70 each I would pay attention on the contractors huge profit that the cost of materials
There is so much wrong with this video. The voltage doesn't simply go up by a "tenth of a volt". It goes up depending on where the current ends up. If all the power is going to your home, then the voltage rises by the voltage differential required to push current to your home appliances (the voltage drop through a conductor). If it's being pushed to the grid, then you have to use the grid impedance to calculate the voltage rise. Also, inverters are very good at what they do, they convert DC to AC at efficiencies greater than 96%. Also the inverter is running 360Vdc, which means that the positive and negative are 360V apart, and so it's only bringing it down from 360V to 240V not 120V.
The inverter lifetime is ~10 years. The panel performance falls off something like 0.8 to 0.9% per year on average. Factor in how much you are able to extract sufficient energy from sunlight and how clouds reduces this and it might be more difficult to recover your costs than assumed but I applaud your taking this on and trying it.
Real-World Break-Even is about 10 years
Nice setup! Love your videos. This one answered several of my questions. Thanks for sharing!
Early systems in solar energy was RD at the expense of the consumer
That was 30 years ago, in the 1980 's ...