Easiest Grid-Tied Solar On The Market! Plug-N-Play
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- Опубліковано 11 чер 2024
- NEP Micro-Inverter - pluggedsolar.com/collections/...
Calculate Solar Panel Cost For Your Home - www.solarreviews.com/solar-es...
I have been waiting for this micro-inverter for a while as I think it unlocks a DIY onramp to Solar for many homeowners. This type of plug-n-play system isn't right for everyone and won't offset all your power needs but can be a great way to start lowering your monthly power bill with the lowest investment possible.
DISCLAIMER: This video and description contain affiliate links, which means that if you click on one of the product links, I’ll receive a small commission. - Навчання та стиль
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Note: 110V, 115V, 120V... all the same thing. 220V, 230V, 240V... also the same thing. Just depends on your local utility distribution. In the U.S., voltages have trended upward over the decades because the higher voltages allow considerably more power to be transmitted on the same distribution lines.
Basically these 120VAC (roughly) micro-inverters work just like normal 240VAC in that they synchronize to the line waveform that they see on the circuit. But there are a number of issues that people need to keep in mind:
(1) 120VAC micro-inverters are generally NOT very efficient. 85%-90% is typical. 240VAC micro-inverters tend to run 95-98% efficient. This also means that 120VAC micro-inverters run a lot hotter than a typical 240VAC Enphase micro-inverter would.
(2) You are back-feeding into just one side of the 240VAC split-phase going into your home, so the loading on the utility transformer is not symmetrical. This is typically not an issue as long as you are not back-feeding too much power since of course most normal house loads are unbalanced as well.
(3) You are back-feeding into the middle or the end of a branch circuit. This is actually illegal. No, you won't get thrown into jail, but you might end up with a fine if you advertise what you are doing. It is only legal to back-feed into a dedicated breaker, with nothing else on that circuit. In addition the home must be on a solar tariff / backfeeding must be allowed by the utility.
(4) Back-feeding into the middle or the end of a branch circuit BYPASSES YOUR BREAKER. This can be dangerous because depending on the topology this allows devices on your branch circuit to pull more amps than the house wiring might be able to support.
This is an issue if you are plugged the back-feed into the middle of the branch-circuit. Devices sitting at the end of the branch-circuit can now consume the entire line breaker's amperage PLUS the backfed amperage without tripping the breaker. The result is that the house's in-wall wiring can catch fire.
(5) There is the possibility that the micro-inverter will continue feeding devices on the branch circuit even if the breaker trips. This is obviously dangerous.
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So, that's the skinny on these 120VAC micro-inverters and why the only ones you see are junk brands. They aren't really meant for U.S. consumers. They are mostly sold to Chinese, Indian, and consumers of other countries with less robust or more expensive grids.
Now if you STILL want to do this, I have some suggestions:
* Never run any high-power devices on the circuit you are back-feeding into.
* Dedicate the entire circuit to the back-feed.... but if you can't, then:
* Back-feed into the END of the branch circuit... the last outlet in the chain, to minimize the chance of an in-wall home-wiring fire.
* Note that you are still bypassing your breaker.
* Do not back-feed more than roughly 500W (4A) on a 15A circuit.
* Maybe consider not doing this at all.
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Typical questions:
* Will the utility meter deal with one leg back-feeding and the other leg forward-feeding ?
Answer: Smart meters typically handle this correctly if they are already solar-enabled (i.e. you already have home solar and a contract with the utility and the utility expects you to backfeed). Dumb meters typically won't handle this correctly.
But you might want to test it because if it doesn't handle it correctly the energy can wind up being billed to you as consumption.
* Will the utility company find out?
Answer1: If you actually manage to back-feed power all the way to the grid, and you are not already on a solar tariff, and you have a smart-meter, the utility will know immediately and might get unhappy with you. Maybe consider ensuring that the home eats more power on that leg then you are back-feeding so you don't actually back-feed the utility.
Answer2: If you are on a solar grid-tie tariff and not a solar + battery tariff, and you back-feed after sundown, the utility will figure it out and might get angry with you.
* Just how dangerous is this really?
Answer: It's all on you bro! I aint gonna say its safe, but I will say if you do it keep the wattages fairly low.
* How many people in the U.S. use these sorts of plug-in micro-inverters ?
Answer: Too many.
* Are these 120VAC micro-inverters UL compliant.
Answer: No. None of them are. Even if they say they are, they aren't. None of them follow the timing rules, none of them have insulation testing, none of them detect out-spec grid conditions. Most of them WILL disconnect if the grid goes down but not always... if your loads match the output they might not disconnect because most of these micro-inverters just use voltage sensing... if they are able to push the waveform too high they know they aren't connected to the grid and will stop.
-Matt
Matt - You're obviously very well-versed in this and probably an installer, so I would like to ask you a question about these 120v micro-inverters. Say you built a dedicated, off-grid system, including a service panel with proper breakers, and that's where you brought the power in from a PV array. This would be 120v exclusively, powering only 120v loads, downstream from the panel...no plugging into an outlet. Under those circumstances, what concerns would you have about using these 120v micro-inverters?
Lots of great info. Thank-you!
@@jasonbroom7147 In an actual professional install, or even when DIYing a large system, do not use 120V micro-inverters, ever. Simplest answer.
I can pretty much guarantee you that 120VAC micro-inverters do not implement any of the standards correctly and building a big system with them will result in a fire, problems, failures, over-volted appliances... don't do it.
In a dedicated off-grid system it is best to use DC-coupled (string) solar fed into charge controllers and not micro-inverters. The reason is that it is far, far, far, far easier to build a rock-solid system when you don't have to deal with frequency shifting (UL1741SA). You also want to optimize the DC path when off-grid because the battery storage is incredibly important.
If you decide you want to use micro-inverters anyway (aka "AC-coupled" solar) in your off-grid system you still don't use 120V micro-inverters. You use 240V micro-inverters (98%+ efficient) coupled into a hybrid solar inverter that has a split-phase output. That gives you two hot legs and a neutral that you can put into a standard AC breaker box and pull out 120VAC and 240VAC circuits as needed, just like you get with a utility AC breaker box.
-Matt
I was thinking, this can't be legal. Thanks for the very detailed response . 👊
This kind of setup, with low wattage, could be used to power the branch with the main breaker off though. You could have a breaker facing the PV, so when you want to use it you switch the utility breaker off, switch the PV on and use the PV on that circuit only. You still have to make sure the wiring can handle the amperage but if the utility breaker for the branch is let's say 15a than having a 15a facing the PV would ensure the same level of protection. With a battery added you could use this to power some patio lights in the evening or other small loads. As long as you disconnect the utility before turning on the PV breaker the risk is minimal, mainly limited to the PV setup.
Another use could be powering lights in an outdoor shed, this way you don't have to run a cable from your utility box at all and just use the PV plus battery.
Great video, i just rewatched your previous video with the amazon set up, and this popped up. I think I'll look into this new version. Keep up the good content.
Thanks for the support 🙌
Have been an admirer of your videos for a long time because you make a rock (me) get it. I had to say it, this time you lost me when you said I did not need to connect this and that. I am visual learner and would have learned from actually you doing the plug and play without all the ofter stuff. Eventually I will get it seeing your video a few hundred times. Keep up the great work.
Thanks so much for the feedback.
Nice! Was hoping for a follow-up to your previous setup
Thanks Alex!
good info.
Scott, can you make a video about a completely off-grid DIY solar setup that is using an Ecoflow Delta 2 Max to power a mini split? Have a detached shed project in mind that doesn't currently have power, but I'd like to convert it to a WFH office.
Edit: Got the inspiration from your recent shed project. Would like to do similar, except expand upon that with more panels and the Delta 2 Max (with extra battery, which I already have).
Can you plug straight to the grid no other equipment needed?
How well would a system like this work with an automatic transfer switch and how could I step it up to 24 volts?
Fun video. Thanks for making it. I've got a couple used 300W panels sitting in my shop and was looking for something like this. My difficulty is my power rate is only about 8 cents per kWh, so the ROI on this is just too far out to make back the cost of the inverter. Would have been fun to play with, but not something I have to have. Thanks again for showing off this inverter.
Wow thats awesome! In the netherlands we pay 30/40 euro cents per kwh
Yeah, I am in the same position so without Renewable Energy Credits (which we have in our state) and Net Metering it is hard to make the math work from an investment perspective at $0.08/kWh.
@@everydaysolar I have net meter and I get about $65 a year on this set up? Is that math right at .09 per kWh? makes it a 6.5 year payoff as I do not have Energy Credits.
I'm new to solar and a little intimidated. Could I use these grid tied plug in micro inverter to feed power to my house from batteries with a timer to only feed during peak charge times? And then use a battery charger on a timer to only charge the battery from the grid on the cheapest over night rates?
I've seen plug n play solar on Amazan maybe since 2017. But the more I think about it, one would eventually need/install more-proper solar installation is must. There is still niche for this like condo-apartment with a nice balcony that faces the sun.
Saving a dollar or two a day adds up over the years, and you're giving a finger to the utilities and helping to decarbonize which has its own value.
And it's also fascinating!
Decarbonize is lefty scam.
I’m assuming you have a bidirectional utility grid meter, as far as I understand the average house utility meter will accumulate kilowatts, not able to distinguish direction and you get charged for electricity going back to the grid as well, you have any thoughts on this?
His main system on the roof and how that is wired implies that. Wish he would have said that in the beginning of the video. Like this is not a way to get started, you NEED to have the right meter to get money back.
Does the NEP unit have rapid shutdown when the grid goes down? Ul 3741
According to the spec sheet, it has rapid shutdown. That would be nice to test to verify.
I’d be interested in something like this to charge some batteries that would power some exterior lights.
This method would be excessive for charging batteries. There are less expensive solutions that will more efficiently charge the batteries directly from the solar output. A Victron 75/10 or 75/15 charge controller is all you really need to charge up a 12v battery that can be used for some low voltage exterior lights.
I have a 50amp plug in my garage that I don’t use cause the I don’t charge a EV
I got a 50amp/120v adapter in case I ever wanted to use power from that outlet
Would it be safe to plug my solar into that plug? I have net metering through my utility in my area that gives credits still thankfully, at least for now.
I'd be very careful with that, but in theory it's possible, since that will be 240v at the outlet, and is more than likely the only outlet on that entire branch. 50A is a big breaker to trip though, so the wiring better be up to snuff. If you're not going to use all 50A, which is most likely the case, I'd recommend swapping out the beaker for a lower amperage one to something closer to your expected maximum output.
I have a Pecron E 2000 LFP, can I just make a double male extension cord and plug into a 20 amp house outlet from one of the 20 amp AC outlets on the generator?
You should definitely NOT do that, as the generator is not designed to synchronize with the grid power, and will probably fry itself, and anyone potentially trying to do maintenance on the lines.
@@joeyhazlett Thanks, that's what I figured, but thot I'd ask.
That tiny setup would produce in a month 10% of the electric we consume. When it's comfortable and we don't use the AC, we use about 550 KWh a month. When it's hot and the AC is used, it sometimes will go up to 650-660 KWh.
It would be nice to have but it wouldn't pay for itself easily. it cost $0.098 per KW here. Not even a dime. 60 KW of production during the summer per month or about $6. About 10 years the cost might be covered.
I tried 2 different wattages of grid-tie inverters, a 1kW and a 1.2kW.
Ever since I tried them, my electric bill went through the roof.
The bill was $490xx last month.
Neither grid-tie has been used for the last 3 months.
Any ideas why?
I only got about 4-5A out of the inverters.
My refrigerator, freezer, pool pump, garage, shop, and carport are all on off-grid solar.
The only things left are the 240V stuff: clothes dryer, stove, central AC, and some 120vac kitchen stuff.
There is no reason for the utility bill to be that high and never was before.
Is your electric meter the old type? Old types of electric meter can't differentiate power going in or out. So all power generated is calculated coming from the grid.
Does this unit output power when it is not plugged into the grid or the power is down?
Nope, only when power is detected at the plug.
Can you parralel 2 panels and plug into inverter?
Yep! I was considering something similar which would then mean on sunny days you would be clipping as the micro-inverter would throttle the current. The big benefit if you have cheap used panels is you would be getting substantially more on cloudy and less than perfectly sunny days with a lower investment.
Can you prevent sending power to the grid?
If you send power to the grid then you will likely need city permit.
He already has an Enphase grid-tied system that will send power to the grid, or since he mentioned that it has sensors on the main legs, it will compensate for these devices and output less from the Enphase-controlled system.
If you do not have an existing system, and do not have a net metering agreement with your utility, you should not attempt to do this without understanding how exporting power works with your provider. You could definitely get charged for giving them free electricity.
No, the micro-inverter has no way of knowing. If the house uses more power on that leg than the micro-inverter is back-feeding, it won't back-feed to the grid. If the house is using less, it will (at least, it will back-feed past the utility meter).
A full off-grid setup is possible but generally pretty expensive. One needs an off-grid inverter that understands AC-coupled micro-inverters to provide the "utility" waveform for the micro-inverters, with batteries to soak up the back-fed power, and both the off-grid inverter and the micro-inverters must understand the UL1741SA frequency-shifting protocol.
@@joeyhazlett He needs to make that clear in the video. I have seen videos from this guy and he does not seem to completely understand what he is making a video about. A good example was his previous video about this
Does the system shutdown if the grid shuts down? Will the plug be live when unplugged or it needs 110 com in my into the inverter?
The UL1741 certification is associated with the feature of the micro-inverter only providing power if power is detected at the plug/circuit.
@@everydaysolar the link for the inverter seems to be correct but the website does not list a model number
How did you plug it into your garage outlet without it interfering with your home power?
It's a microinverter so it synchronizes to the AC line waveform it sees at the outlet. There are numerous issues though, so I'll make a top-level post outlining them.
Grid-tied inverters like this are designed to synchronize with the grid power they are connected to, and output in the same frequency and voltage as that grid power.
im assuming this is only beneficial during any energy use during the day as you dont have it connected to a battery storage system, right?
Yep, and without Net Metering you would be only getting the benefit if you are offsetting consumption for other circuits and appliances.
@@everydaysolar oh? and WITH net metering, what changes then?
What are you feeding with the 120v?
He is back feeding his entrance panel through a dedicated breaker for that outlet and the power will flow to any other circuit in the house that is using power. The solar power is just displacing some of the power that the house is using from the grid.
Germany is full of these types of systems capped at ~800watt. They are using the grid as battery.
Yeah, Europe has a whole “balcony solar” industry. I like the systems like the EcoFlow Power Stream. Pretty cool 👍
Is it legal to connect powergenerating device to grid?
Most utilities have several requirements which can change a bit depending on who you have but the most common is the device has to be UL 1741 certified.
Maybe I missed it, but a system like this risky because it allows backfeeding and doesnt have a system to shut off if power is disconnected? I thought nearly all utility companies ban this stuff
UL 1741 is the certification that ensures the micro inverter only provides power when power is detected at the outlet/grid.
Right when you mentioned the extorsinist HOA you are screwed up
when you feed the power into an outlet on your home you are on the wrong side of the fuse so to speak, no? defeating safety. you did say something about using an single circuit so I guess your fine if not going over 15 amps.. Good vid
Yeah, you would want a dedicated circuit to avoid issues 👍
At only 500W output (paused and zoomed in on the specs) that'll take a long time to recoup the investment.
Especially when paying $500 for a "kit" that includes a $200 inverter and $40 extension cord + monitoring tool.
Not a good idea to use a pencil as a pointer near live electric circuits because pencil "lead" is graphite (carbon) which is conductive. Better to use a plastic or fiberglass rod.
You never said WHY you can't get net metering. Am I to assume that your Enphase system is set up for net zero operation (meaning it will throttle back output if the solar system is producing more than you are using locally).
I don’t understand. Are you back feeding the power INTO your garage? Isn’t that super dangerous?
It's no more dangerous that the Enphase inverters on the roof of his house, since it works in exactly the same way, and has the same pertinent UL ratings. You can't do this with a regular inverter, but a grid-tied inverter is smart enough to know how to interact with the grid and only function when it's safe to do so.
Lets keep it simple electrons always take the shortest route just plug this into your closest high drain appliance and YOUR POWER WILL GO TO THE APPLIANCE simples❤❤❤❤
Count the code violations boys
This would be great to plug into a mango power battery system. The conversion loses are outwayed by how far from your garage you can put it. Plugging it in to the outlet is dangerous because during a power outage, it could zap a line worker. And expensive because the power company could sue you for $20k if no one is hurt. If you have a generator switch installed by electrion go ham. Just make sure you are off grid mode.
Pretty sure the microinverters shut themselves down if they don't detect the grid, as with most (if not all) grid-tie systems.
Be careful with that graphite pencil!
Dont do this!! Your local inspector and utility company will shit a brick if they catch you. There are code violations so it wouldn't pass inspection, and your utility company requires inspection and an interconnect agreement to connect to the grid.
This is one of the videos I was waiting for. Main reason, you already have an enphase system installed. I was hesitant to do something similar since I didn't know if adding a 110v grid tie would conflict with the 220v enphase production.
Also, I would love to see if you can connect a battery directly to the grid tie inverter, that way we can offset some of the energy consumption during the peak hours that are usually when the sun is down.
No, it won't affect or interfere with the 220v system, but you will be adding power to only one leg of your 220v power if you have a single microinverter like this plugged in. At
In terms of connecting a battery, it depends on the grid-tie inverter.
* Always connect the battery side with an inline fuse or breaker because the inverter is expecting a solar input and will try to sweep the input, and some inverters can just about short the "solar" input while doing that. Those obviously won't work with batteries.
* Make sure that the grid-tie inverter does not output beyond its rating while connected to the battery. In fact, make sure it doesn't go above roughly 75% of its rating if you want the thing to last.
* Generally speaking connecting a lower-voltage to the micro-inverter causes it to output less wattage. So in terms of battery voltages, typically a 24V (25.6V LiFePO4) battery system voltage is close to ideal. 12V might be too little (not even turn the micro-inverter on), and 48V might be too much (cause the micro-inverter to output too much power and over-heat).
* Do not let the micro-inverter drain the battery all the way down to BMS disconnect if you can help it. It isn't good for the battery or the BMS to do that daily. Generally speaking a solid-state DC-capable relay with a voltage sense on the battery side is used to disconnect the micro-inverter earlier, or a cheap timer on the AC side can be used to only run it for a set period of time.
Do not use a cheap AC relay to switch DC on the battery side. I wouldn't even use a DC relay. I'd use a solid-state relay with a big heat sink. Most people just hook up a cheap timer on the AC side's plug since that is fairly easy to do and tends to be safer. But make sure the wattage is less than 50% what the timer is rated for.
-Matt
@@joeyhazlett thanks for your time and explanation 👍🏻
@@junkerzn7312 thanks to you too Matt. I do appreciate you guys took your time to explain some caveats of the setup I presented
Used panels are not eligible for the tax credit.
So I could use this no battery system as a 120v ac power point, and also take 12v out with a dc-dc converter…. mmmmm cool
Right there at the main check amps multiplied by volts you're only putting in less than 20% of the watch you think you are thus kind of stealing from the power company
Do not use it in San Antonio area. You will receive notice from CPS that will make the effort worthless.
Just "plug it in"...Not quite. NEC!
Which part of the NEC are you calling out for this specific setup?
This is so illegal it's scary.
This NEP inverter is illegal for plugging into an outlet. It is not UL approved for grid intertie use and if your utility learns of your installation, you going to get sued by the utility.
Ummm, no, he will not. Get real.
If you don't have a way to shunt the power to a standby Battery Bank, you are wasting a TON of money! Because, if all you have is a Grid Tied setup, when the Power goes out, your Solar Panels are worthless. I went with a SEPARATE setup. When OUR Local Utility hiccups, I can annually with to a Battery backup system, INDEPENDENT from the Grid.
Your Technical explanations ARE correct, however, I personally do NOT like Grid-Tied only systems with no Battery backup!
Dude seriously? So you made this system but are using it on a house that already has solar with a net meter?
If you want to make a system great, let's not connect it to your house, violate a shit ton of codes, not get authorization from the utility, and think it's fine without a bi-directional meter.
Lots of bad info here. If you want a system like this feed it into an all in one battery/inverter. Then use a generator panel to power loads. For fuck sake don't plug it into a 120v outlet.
This would get you jail time if used in cali 🤔
And in Australia too. Backfeeding a power outlet is a big no no.
Well, I "tested" my solar system before I got my PTO from SCE, they didn't say anything, The only thing is that I didn't get the credit for the electricity that got send back to the grid. Of course there's no GUARANTEE that they won't say anything about this.
@deyumei7965 especially if a worker is down the line and expecting power to be off in that section you're feeding 🤔
@@tjmooney4181 As soon as the power goes off, this inverter will turn off and stop backfeeding. It's designed to be grid-tied, and meets UL certifications, which requires rapid shutdown when the power goes out. Nobody is going to get zapped.
@@joeyhazlett good to know 👍
A confusing video. You do not clearly show how this is to be used, You complicated things by showing your roof top system, etc. It is not clear what someone should do with the AC output of the system
The AC output just plugs into a circuit in your home. I recommend an exterior GFCI outlet with an "in use" cover on a dedicated circuit where you are only feeding in the solar and not powering anything else on the same circuit.
How do you keep it from feeding back to the grid and receiving credit for it?
What is an “in use” cover?
@@WalterRiggs A plastic cover that fully closes and allows a cord to be plugged in at the same time. All newer exterior outlets have them. The older outlets only have a "door" type cover that works with nothing plugged in, but is not sealed when a plug is in so it's not watertight.
I found it clear and helpful