Talking Point: Setting the Record on Sgt. Savage
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- Опубліковано 25 лют 2023
- In today's Talking Point, Patrick shares why Sgt. Savage wasn't the downfall of the original 3 3/4" G.I. Joe!
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The Chicago-Tribune report on Arnold Schwarzenegger joining Sgt. Rock: www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...
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IGN's Stax Report review of the Sgt. Rock screenplay: www.ign.com/articles/2000/05/...
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I lived through this period.
I can't remember where I read about the end of A Real American Hero or how I heard about Sgt. Savage and his Screaming Eagles right now. I may have read about it in Toy Trader (Antique Trader "newspaper" publication), maybe a Cotswold Collectibles catalog, or maybe even the "Steel Brigade Club" newsletters. (That club didn't have much good to say about Sgt. Savage, or as they printed it, something like, "Sgt. Say-I-can't-hold-my-weapons.")
I thought Sgt. Savage looked good, I bought the VHS/ figure and the Grizzly when I first found them in Target. I liked the theme and concept, I didn't know much about Capt. America or Sgt. Rock at that time, either, so that part seemed somewhat original or fresh to me. The scale difference on the figure was where I felt like I was starting a whole new line, not as much as the segment (I like how you explained this and had never thought of this way). My A Real American Hero figures could definitely fit on the Grizzly but it was just a tad big.
The Stargate figures that I had bought on clearance (and the All Terrain Cruiser/ AWE Striker) seemed like they were in a different world (pun intended) due to the larger scale but I think I remember feeling like Sgt. Savage fit with them. For me, with a decade+ of a certain scale I just wasn't jumping into a scale that I felt was new. (I didn't jump into any 12" Hall of Fame G.I.Joe figures, either; only so much I could have bought anyway... particularly back in those days). And it's not like my 1992 Duke was fitting in the 1983 A.P.C.'s drivers seat without some serious finagling, for instance, so there is some variance, but Sarge took it just a little too far. Not the extreme, but..., okay....., pun intended.)
You have a great breakdown here. I love the timeline. This is new information to me and it is really interesting to see how many different things are going on behind the scenes that I didn't know about as I wandered the retail toy aisles back then. Excellent, excellent, excellent information that you have present here.
The Extreme development makes even more sense to me now, too. Sgt. Savage seemed like it didn't last long even though it had a very solid line up feeling to me and then just like that it was done and then the Extreme was on the scene. Of course I had to buy Iron Klaw to at least check him out. Knowing what was going on in the company at the time, everything I saw at retail, and this will likely sound weird, but the line evolution at this time seems so much more clear to me now.
Had the Sgt. Savage line, or segment, been 3.75" I would have just kept on buying G.I.Joe stuff and likely more. But the scale changes...., and I was/ am the same way with the "new-sculpt," the "anniversary," and now the "Classified" scales, I am not very interested in swapping to a different scale...., ya know what I'm saying?
Thanks! I will get to doing more on Savage for sure. There were a few figures that didn't get released that were constructed just like Stargate, so you are right on with that. I have a lot of Joes in other scales but often find myself imagining ways to customize the designs into 3 3/4" figures, so I also have to realize that for me, it is my default format.
Man, i really need to finish reading Toy Wars. Thanks Pat for taking us to toy school again! 👍
I was at the Intrepid convention and attended the dinner with Hasbro execs included in the officers club package. There were only a few hundred of us there the night they announced the cancellation of 3 3/4 and unveiled sgt savage. All of us kinda looked at each other and said “isn’t that the same thing as captain America?” Lol. We even asked if they would at least give us a final showdown between joe and cobra to give it a proper send off in the comics or on tv. Their response was that there was simply not enough interest. The groans increased and I distinctly recall one exec saying to the group “we make toys for kids. Everyone in this room can quit collecting tomorrow and we will be just fine.” Funny to look back on how that’s worked out for them over the last 30 years.
There was also the GIJOE comic from Dark Horse that I wish they had finished the story to. I only picked up the Sgt. Savage figure with the video tape x2 because they were in a basket at the front of walmart for $1.00. I couldn't pass that up. They're pretty interesting toys though, looking back 29 years.
I love the direction that the Joe team was going before it all was stopped. Joe Kubert having been hired to do the art was a great addition.
Exactly. It was such a win to have had a moment in time when Joe Kubert worked on G.I.Joe. Even if some fans don't like the figures, I think we can at least appreciate Sgt. Savage for that.
@@ArticulatedPoints It would be so cool to see a display of the original Joe Colton, Sgt Savage, Manimals, and Super joes/X Soldiers on a shelf together. RIP 1995:-(
I dislike any deviation from the 1:18th scale o-ring line (I did like the 4" line, but only a few of the figures and vehicles, where as I like 100% of the figures in the o-ring line and most of those vehicles).. I did not like the weird space aliens, any of them, not even the ones that almost had the same build as the o-ring ARAH figures.
At the same time Joe Kurbert was doing the art for these, he also did a Marvel Punisher War Zone comic mini series . Fantastic stuff!
I mean I grew up with most of these toylines and what did it for me as a kid was the hands on the G.I joe toys. I loved the smaller figures but the hands on the joytoy did not hold the action figures weapons well. It made me frustrated as a kid to have to constantly put the figures weapons back in his hands. Kenner's star wars toy had less articulation but it was easier to have their weapons in their hands. Ultimately me and my brother moved on to Stars Wars and Johnny quest figures. As kids in the 80s-90s we did not care about miltary realism we cared about how fun the figures were to play with. You can see what I am talking about in your examples. You slot the weapon in the side of the hand. The hand is not fully close so the weapons fallout.
This is a great video. I already knew most of this, but its great to have the information out there so we can point people to it. When I was a teen I liked the idea of Sgt. Savage, but didn't like the "big" figures. Still bought them all, lol. I look back now at how small they are compared to the common place 6 inch figures. Those figures weren't so bad. Overall I really loved the Sgt. Savage line and wished it would have continued. Can't wait until you do another video talking about the unreleased figures. We were robbed that we didn't get Grill.
Sgt Savage was so much fun! I wish it had continued, even the vehicles kick ass.
I loved sgt. Savage especially the iron army, i still have some loose incomplete figures and a sealed copy of the vhs tape.
Excellent video. I learned a lot.
Truly an amazing job on this episode. I know you and I have talked about this extensively, but I still learned more from you on this one. I really think this is your best episode yet and I think you have finally gotten me to collect Sgt. Savage.
Thankfully, it’s not a large line to collect!
I Love this topic. I wish I could have been with you Pat on this episode.
This was very informative Pat. I had zero knowledge of this character to this point beyond seeing it in toy stores. By 1994 I had put Gi Joe to the side in favor or collecting Comics, Hip Hop Magazines and Sneakers. Also the year I started College.
Well done Pat!
I actually liked the episode because I like Sgt. Savage man... You didn't mention about prototypes for this line that were supposed to come after the first episode and first wave of figures... If I'm not mistaken there was a different version of General Blitz coming up at that time that just got a prototype. Talking about great designs, I would love to see a version of General Blitz like in the episode that appeared at the end in which he looked as he said man and machine soldier, the evolution of the evilness. He looked like a mix between a Transformer "Jet decepticon" and a human "head"... I have to find the right parts to make a custom of him... I would like to see a synopsis on GI Joe Extreme since it ran for 2 seasons man... Hopefully one day they release a remaster DVD of the episodes. Thank you for the great video.😀💡✌️
Great video! I'm a huge 3 3/4" fan - Sgt. Savage came out when I was 12 but I still remember getting Dynamite and my little brother getting Sgt. Savage with the video cassette. The P-40 Warhawk and the tank released were both very cool too. This era of GI Joe fascinates me - I came across the Battle Corps Rangers stuff a few years back and got really interested into why the line was cancelled when it looked like the O-ring figures were poised to make a come back with re-releases of the Battle Platform and Whale. Like you said it - it prompts alot of "What ifs".
I think my younger brother was almost 10 when Savage came out and he got the figure with video and the Stormtrooper. I was already 19 and buying as a collector, eventually making my way around to getting the other Savage figures.
I would still like to have that Battle Platform and new Whale.
@@ArticulatedPoints Me too. I would have been 12/13 when the Battle Rangers were slated to come out so I was right on the edge of "growing out" of toys. I think I still would have tried to get my hands on as many of the battle rangers figures and vehicles. If not at that time than certainly as a collector. Battle Rangers were the only thing that really intrigued me from the proposed 1995 line. Some of the Star Brigade figures were cool but even as a kid I wasn't into the aliens aspect or going so science fiction. I've always wanted to add a Whale to my collection but the age/fragility of it at this point has
As a kid I liked WW2 - I still remember the 50th anniversary of Dday in 1994. So I thought getting WW2 themed Joes was a cool idea. I certainly hold no ill-will towards the Sgt. Savage line...Kenner on the other hand is a different story with GI Joe Xtreme and how they botched the 1997 relaunch of o-ring figures (especially the Stars and Stripes set) LOL.
This video certainly answered a lot of questions I had about the end of the ARAH run. I'll probably end up buying that book Toy Wars - seems like a really good read. Thanks again for the deep dive into that tumultuous era of GI Joe.
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When people say 1995 would've been a return to realism, they were working off those two Battle Corps Rangers. There was so much more Star Brigade product further along the pipeline that we've gotten to see in prototype over the years. I'm guessing 1995 would have been very Star Wars... erm, Brigade heavy. Another great video, Pat! I was at the Joe Convention on 1994... but I wasn't at the panel where they made the announcement. I heard it through the rumblings at the dealer booths outside afterwards, and it didnt really sink in until Cotswald Collectibles sent out their next newsletter in the fall. I was devestated, but I welcomed Savage and the gang into my home and heart, going so far as to write a fanfiction adaptation in the early 2000s that fleshed out his connection with the 80s Joes, and detailed the time before the closure of the PIT in Marvel #155. Fans like you know a lot more about Savage and the behind the scenes stuff than I do, but I wonder if anyone loved those toys and that cartoon as much as I did at the time.
I wish I could have gone to that convention. It is legendary. And it is nice to hear that you were into it. This era deserves fans. In some ways, Sgt. Savage feels a lot like Joe did for me in 1982.
As I said, I have a lot of days that I want to talk about Sgt. Savage, so I should probably start gathering what I need for another video.
Is there an archive of all of Joe Kurbert's Sgt Savage character designs somewhere?
I was a teenager and had already checked out of Joe by '94 so i have no nostalgia or even much memory of sgt savage.
Yeah, I was about 19 when it came out. But having a much younger brother meant that I had already gotten back into looking at the line and buying as a collector. It was a really strange year and I have always enjoyed learning more about what happened in 1994.
1st thing i gotta say is thank you Sir for a great informative video on a character that i like alot Sgt Savage!!! Salute 2u. I bought and own all of Sgt Savage toy line and wish it would have continued, especially the 12inch Savage figure with the awesome head sculpt that fit in nicely with the 12inch gijoe HoF figures. Wish they would've made the rest of the eagles in 12inch form. I didn't care that they weren't the same size as the 3 3/4 figures. Look at the detail on a sgt savage 5inch fig compared to the smaller gijoe. Especially the head sculpts doesn't even compare!!! Listen I love everything gijoe its my favorite toyline of all time sjnce da early 70s and Savage is gijoe 2 me. I seriously hope that hasbros gijoe classified team gives us some Sgt Savage screaming eagles figures. I can only hope🙏😉 Luv dat t-shirt
This was fantastic.
Great Episode Pat.
I was long out of Joe by then trying to distance myself from such "uncool" things as toys. What a fool I was!
Way good detail! Thanks for the info!
Sgt Savage wasn’t a bad line. The figs weren’t as good as o-ring, and scale just enough off to not work great with them. Probably done better at as 3.75 and the story was good.
Great video. What is that Shockwave on your left? Thanks
That is the 2018 Cyber Battalion Shockwave behind me on my left. On my right there is also an Action Master Shockwave is a one-off custom cast that a friend made.
I would have greatly enjoyed the savage line, if only they'd have scaled with joes. I'm ok with 1/6, and 1:18, but I don't have enough interest, or room in my house to collect other scales like savage, sigma 6, extreme, or classified.... They might have had appeal to others, and that's cool, but I just can't go down that rabbit hole...
Well thought out and excellent research. Good job Pat.
Thank you for elaborating on this misunderstood era. It is nice to understand better the multiple moving parts of the story, why, how, when, who, where… great research. The competitive landscape is often forgotten by the adult collector reviewer, who often constricts the assessment of the end product/ toy in a vacuum.
It makes me have a much better appreciation of the endeavors in hindsight. I despised these toys as a kid but have now found some interest in their past vision and intent. Any way to find more about it? Was the creative team designing the toys… different folks from the Joe line?
I found it strange that the hip joints were so fragile and limited, almost coming from older competitor toys. Note also the figures were made in Indonesia, like late 93 Joe figs. The savage cartoons had very stylized body proportions which were totally not present in the toys. In hindsight the figures looked like an afterthought, or a quickie project, or done by a third party, different team. The vehicles were quite robust. The P40 Warhawk plane for example , is exquisitely made. It feels as if the vehicles were designed by designers who did not have the figures in hand… I am speculating this because the cockpits are large and bland, as if trying to be safe to accommodate whatever fig is coming up. No specific details and no surfaces to mate the figures. Very generic “ tray “ locations And the sgt figures do not sit well…
The Panther tank origins can be traced back to a cancelled 3 3/4” line with Hit& Run as a retooled driver. Since they were laying off people it might be difficult to have more detailed information about who did what then.
Believe me, we have more on Sgt. Savage that we’d love to share!
Great video Pat!!! Thanks for the info. 👍
I love Sgt. Savage.
Cool!!
This line wasn't one of my favorite, but I could get what they were trying to do.
I just wish that they would have stayed stable, and kept the damn figures in 3 3/4 inch. That line of figures scale was so bad that it was laughable. How many of you out there broke these guys legs off when you tried to put him in your VAMP?
As to the 12 inch figures, They were crapper then crap. I have an ongoing secret seething hate for these Barbie doll stand ins. No articulation, low quality clothing, oversized and garbage tier weapons and accessories... It was as if they didn't understand that they were making G.I. Joes, not Ken.
Typical Has-Been... no brand knowledge, but damn do they want to live on the backs of their past wins.
Re-sizing the SGT. Savage figures, instead of keeping them normal 3.75" scale was idiotic. I believe if more of Hasbro's figure lines had been 1:18th instead of going larger, they too would have lasted longer. Visionaries, for example.
Maybe instead of their marketing data blindly looking at weird things like the size of other companies' action figures, and whining about them not having super/mutant powers... maybe, just maybe they should have asked the GI Joe fans what they liked or didn't like about the GI Joe toyline? I know I stopped collecting when they went to fruity neon colors for all the figures, hugely oversized spring-loaded weapons, stupid ninja-action (ninja force, mortal kombat, and street fighter) and those stupid manimal aliens. They had lost their way! They were moving into SPACE!??! GI Joe is a military group! I could understand a few space stuff, just in case, but they were going all in, total focus on SPACE.. when they crashed and burned.
They basically doubled down on stupid and made GI Joe EXTREME and all those other pieces of crap versions I mentioned previously. 1:18th is the perfect scale, the o-ring figures were fine, the issue was that they started getting super gimmicky just to charge an extra dollar or two to the figures, and people got SICK of that garbage! NEVER should have changed the scale, never should have made manimals for it!