You really don't want to lock the elbows in place either, as this has the potential for other problems, such as the bar swinging out during the final phase of the pull due to not being able to react and "loosen up" the triceps in time. When this kid demonstrated the power clean with "tight triceps", I'd imagine that's why he racked the bar low on his chest; bar swings out due to delayed reaction in pulling under the bar. Straight arms are good, but having a very slight bend in the arms isn't necessarily going to leave anyone doomed to failure of what could have been a powerful final phase of the pull (Catalyst Athletics has a very good video on this exact topic). Chains only stay straight because of opposing forces applied to each direction, and arms stay straight during the pull for the exact same reason, there's no need to actively lock out the arms.
Joseph S I watched his video too! Because I’m one of those lucky few with a short Torso and stupid long arms a slight bend is something I constantly have
Also, when you apply power with bent elbows - that's how you tear a biceps. Whenever I see torn biceps video - it's exactly at almost straight / slightly bent / arm when the force is applied.
Can we, once, do a tutorial on how to PC with people with long limbs? And i mean, my hands reach 2 inches above my quads when i'm resting my arms. When the barbell pass over the patella there's almost no room left for the pull. Never mind, trash this comment.
Aggressive shrug, which in turn will naturally bend the elbows to get a fast turnover. You may also, need to pull under the bar faster. Everyone is different, so bar path and force into bar will be different. I would video yourself and look to see at what areas of the lift you may need to change your biomechanics or technique.
"Straight elbows are more efficient" Not really. Efficiency is determined by a ton of different factors, and many coaches place a premium on getting the bar high and deep into the hip crease to INCREASE efficiency, not really worrying about how bent the elbows are. For many people, there is a need to bend the elbows to get the bar into the correct position during the 2nd pull. That's infinitely more important than how bent or straight your arms are. This is a point that really doesn't need to be addressed in my coaching experience. You're time is better served trying to improve position as it relates to balance, tightness in the back, pressure in the feet, leg drive and timing. it's all about fucking timing. Early arm bend can be a problem, but it really is only an issue if it happens as soon as the bar comes off the floor. There are SO MANY other things a weightlifter needs to concern him/herself with.
+Jordan Kroell You won't transfer all the power to the barbell if you don't pull with straight elbows. What is more easier? Lifting a 50kg bag by pulling a spring that is attached to it or with a metal chain attached to it?
@@reezis1619 You completely missed the point of the criticism. During the first and second pull the arms should be fairly loose and relaxed. They can remain perfectly straight without tensing up the triceps. What Jordan has correctly stated is that keeping the triceps actively tensed will delay the transition from the second to the third pull. If you want to continue with your 50 kg bag analogy, if I want to throw the bag up as high as possible but I am in a room with an 8 foot ceiling, the bag will only go 8 feet. If a lifter has tense triceps, unless the lifter can release this tension at exactly the right time, the tense triceps can, even if for a split second, put the brakes on the bar's upward acceleration much like our ceiling. As Jordan said, there are plenty of moving parts in a correct pull. Tensing the triceps adds a moving part that is unnecessary.
So he doesn't want to address the fact that the barbell crashes on the poor kid every single rep in the video? Is that not an error other people are seeing? How is this a "great tip?" What is so different about the quality of the reps when the kid bends his elbows versus when he keeps them straight?
I've written long posts criticizing Rippetoe's teaching method for the clean/power clean on almost every video he's put out. Fans of Rippetoe don't listen, and to those who realize that what Rippetoe is wrong I'm just preaching to the choir. My hope is that those who are new to weightlifting will read my posts and turn and run if they ever encounter a Starting Strength coach who wants to teach them how to clean. I have also seen the bar crash on Rippetoe's lifters. He teaches that at the start position should be just like a deadlift - the bar should be about an inch from the shin and the hips very high. No weightlifting program anywhere in the world teaches this because what all these coaches know, and what Rippetoe obviously missed, is that in the 1970s R.A. Roman, a Soviet biomechanist used actual biomechanics to determine the optimal start position. Any good coach knows that a deadlift start position shifts the center of gravity of the lifter-barbell system forward. Because the hips are already high, many lifters naturally move the hips even higher during the first pull. If you look at other videos the majority of lifters using Rippetoe's method get very little if any knee extension. It's all one big back and hip extension. This results in the bar looping outward - the lifter has to basically "swing" the bar up - and the lifter either needs to jump forward, or really needs to pull the bar back towards the lifter which can cause a jump back and a crash. Very inefficient. The other problem I notice in just about every lifter using Rippetoe's method is that the lifter's feet hit the ground well before the bar is racked on the shoulders. These should occur roughly at the same time. But that's because Rippetoe teaches that there should be no arm pull EVER. He does not believe in the third pull. Every other coach knows that the problem with an arm pull is an EARLY arm pull. Once the knees and hips have extended, the lower body has done all it can. The arms must now take over to pull the lifter under in a full clean or in the case of the power clean, to keep the momentum of the bar going so it can be racked properly and with correct timing. Many have pointed out the flaws in Rippetoe's teaching but he and his brainswashed followers refuse to listen.
@@the_third_sun I posted this 3 months ago. Since then, I stated that I would be more positive in my comments to Rippetoe and I will extend that courtesy to you. You are right: I have no UA-cam content, I am not a weightlifting coach, and I am not some great weightlifter. I am a masters weightlifter with a bad back trying to do the best I can in the sport. Having said that, here is how I understand the concept of the "third pull." When the lower body finishes its job, the second pull (or "explosion" as the Russians call it is over) is finished. Depending on the weight, the bar may still go upward a little more due to momentum, but if the bar is heavy this momentum ends very quickly. Even Rippetoe said so in one of his videos. When the bar is heavy the best we can hope for is the bar stays at the highest point its reached for a fraction of a second. For this fraction of a second, the bar is "weightless." The lifter must now get under the bar to catch it. This is true for a power clean but even more so for a clean. In order to catch the bar, the lifter must drop faster than the bar. However, we know from physics that the acceleration of gravity is constant, meaning that objects will fall to the earth at the same speed regardless of how much the object weighs. This is where the "third pull" comes in. In that split second when the bar is weightless, lifters use their arms to pull against the weightless bar which allows them to pull themselves down faster than the acceleration of gravity. Just to be clear: the arm pull demonstrated in the video is clearly incorrect because it happens too soon. The problem with arm pull is a question of when it happens. Too soon is wrong; after the hips have extended is correct. In a correctly timed arm pull the arms are used not to pull the bar UP but to pull the lifter DOWN. You seem very confident in your statement that there is no such thing as a third pull. If that is the case, please explain to me how lifters can get under the bar to catch the bar BEFORE it starts falling back to the ground without using their arms to pull themselves down faster than the acceleration of gravity?
@@MikeXCSkier there is no 3rd pull cause when you are in full extension you re not lifting with your arms the bar any further ...now as far getting under the bar fast most coaches in greece are saying just be close to the bar and get under it fast at which you are getting better with practice...there are some cues to help you visualize the movement better but you re just getting under it...i got what you sayin but this just happens naturally you dont have to think about pulling the bar or whatever...personally when i try to pull the bar with my arms to get under it i just mess my timing and my form, hips coming forward ,position gets off, getting on my toes, im slowing down and also feels really stiff, today also i got chocked somehow...but when i do the move right just finish my extension and get under it without pulling the bar with my arms then the movement feels so fast and smooth like butter, feel the bar flying its really satisfying ...also the explosion of the clean or snatch is very fast ,half a second and maybe less. i dont think you have the time to think about pulling with your arms to get under it it throws off the timing ... i ve never heard from a coach in greece taking about 3rd pull. They are saying lifting with your arms is bad...also pyrros dimas in seminars says that the arms are like ropes, they are not lifting the bar they have to be straight and have nothing to do with the movement...that's all, sorry if my english are bad ,not my language and also i dont have a problem with you i'm just keeping the drama on...im an internet troll ,not in the level of glenn pendlay but im trying :D ua-cam.com/video/hJ90qqbJZTg/v-deo.html good video of showing perfectly straight elbows
On of the best coach I have ever seen , he combine the biomechanic with his explanation . Really very amazing
wow. coach Rip has got conveying an idea, teaching, down to a science.
Yeah he really does explain things well
Too bad it's all wrong.
Sir Mark Rippetoe, is a Good Teacher in my Book.
Thanks Rip! Gotta pose those big traahceps!
You really don't want to lock the elbows in place either, as this has the potential for other problems, such as the bar swinging out during the final phase of the pull due to not being able to react and "loosen up" the triceps in time. When this kid demonstrated the power clean with "tight triceps", I'd imagine that's why he racked the bar low on his chest; bar swings out due to delayed reaction in pulling under the bar. Straight arms are good, but having a very slight bend in the arms isn't necessarily going to leave anyone doomed to failure of what could have been a powerful final phase of the pull (Catalyst Athletics has a very good video on this exact topic). Chains only stay straight because of opposing forces applied to each direction, and arms stay straight during the pull for the exact same reason, there's no need to actively lock out the arms.
Joseph S I watched his video too! Because I’m one of those lucky few with a short
Torso and stupid long arms a slight bend is something I constantly have
Thank you, this has already helped me improve my form.
Also, when you apply power with bent elbows - that's how you tear a biceps. Whenever I see torn biceps video - it's exactly at almost straight / slightly bent / arm when the force is applied.
So when has anyone ever torn their biceps pulling a clean?
Sir Mark, The Greatest!!!
Wow, I knew something was wrong with my clean and I think this is it. I will work on this.
I can bench 335, squat 500, deadlift 495, but cant even powerclean 185. It pisses me off more than I can explain
"you, are not the special snow flake." :D
great tip!
Can we, once, do a tutorial on how to PC with people with long limbs? And i mean, my hands reach 2 inches above my quads when i'm resting my arms. When the barbell pass over the patella there's almost no room left for the pull.
Never mind, trash this comment.
YOU BEND YOUR ELBOWS!
Aggressive shrug, which in turn will naturally bend the elbows to get a fast turnover. You may also, need to pull under the bar faster. Everyone is different, so bar path and force into bar will be different. I would video yourself and look to see at what areas of the lift you may need to change your biomechanics or technique.
BodyKnight subscribe to Zack Telander he is a very tall long limbed Oly lifter. He breaks down movement very well for your body type.
James Natial i already have in the meantime. He is quite something. THANKS.
I can deadlift 475 pounds and squat 460 and still can’t really powerclean because I bend my elbows
"Straight elbows are more efficient"
Not really. Efficiency is determined by a ton of different factors, and many coaches place a premium on getting the bar high and deep into the hip crease to INCREASE efficiency, not really worrying about how bent the elbows are. For many people, there is a need to bend the elbows to get the bar into the correct position during the 2nd pull. That's infinitely more important than how bent or straight your arms are.
This is a point that really doesn't need to be addressed in my coaching experience. You're time is better served trying to improve position as it relates to balance, tightness in the back, pressure in the feet, leg drive and timing. it's all about fucking timing. Early arm bend can be a problem, but it really is only an issue if it happens as soon as the bar comes off the floor. There are SO MANY other things a weightlifter needs to concern him/herself with.
+Jordan Kroell You won't transfer all the power to the barbell if you don't pull with straight elbows. What is more easier? Lifting a 50kg bag by pulling a spring that is attached to it or with a metal chain attached to it?
@@reezis1619 You completely missed the point of the criticism. During the first and second pull the arms should be fairly loose and relaxed. They can remain perfectly straight without tensing up the triceps. What Jordan has correctly stated is that keeping the triceps actively tensed will delay the transition from the second to the third pull. If you want to continue with your 50 kg bag analogy, if I want to throw the bag up as high as possible but I am in a room with an 8 foot ceiling, the bag will only go 8 feet. If a lifter has tense triceps, unless the lifter can release this tension at exactly the right time, the tense triceps can, even if for a split second, put the brakes on the bar's upward acceleration much like our ceiling. As Jordan said, there are plenty of moving parts in a correct pull. Tensing the triceps adds a moving part that is unnecessary.
Just relax the arms until contact...then pull. Don’t flex ur triceps kids...
Ummmmm crossfit does not train upright rows. They may do sumo deadlift high pulls, but never have seen upright row in my 2 years in doing crossfit.
Rip for prez
fursure untuck your t shirt mr rip.
So he doesn't want to address the fact that the barbell crashes on the poor kid every single rep in the video? Is that not an error other people are seeing? How is this a "great tip?" What is so different about the quality of the reps when the kid bends his elbows versus when he keeps them straight?
Jordan Kroell not quite sure what your seeing as far as crashing of bar. I hear the bar when it brushes his thigh, but the catch looks fine.
I've written long posts criticizing Rippetoe's teaching method for the clean/power clean on almost every video he's put out. Fans of Rippetoe don't listen, and to those who realize that what Rippetoe is wrong I'm just preaching to the choir. My hope is that those who are new to weightlifting will read my posts and turn and run if they ever encounter a Starting Strength coach who wants to teach them how to clean. I have also seen the bar crash on Rippetoe's lifters. He teaches that at the start position should be just like a deadlift - the bar should be about an inch from the shin and the hips very high. No weightlifting program anywhere in the world teaches this because what all these coaches know, and what Rippetoe obviously missed, is that in the 1970s R.A. Roman, a Soviet biomechanist used actual biomechanics to determine the optimal start position. Any good coach knows that a deadlift start position shifts the center of gravity of the lifter-barbell system forward. Because the hips are already high, many lifters naturally move the hips even higher during the first pull. If you look at other videos the majority of lifters using Rippetoe's method get very little if any knee extension. It's all one big back and hip extension. This results in the bar looping outward - the lifter has to basically "swing" the bar up - and the lifter either needs to jump forward, or really needs to pull the bar back towards the lifter which can cause a jump back and a crash. Very inefficient. The other problem I notice in just about every lifter using Rippetoe's method is that the lifter's feet hit the ground well before the bar is racked on the shoulders. These should occur roughly at the same time. But that's because Rippetoe teaches that there should be no arm pull EVER. He does not believe in the third pull. Every other coach knows that the problem with an arm pull is an EARLY arm pull. Once the knees and hips have extended, the lower body has done all it can. The arms must now take over to pull the lifter under in a full clean or in the case of the power clean, to keep the momentum of the bar going so it can be racked properly and with correct timing. Many have pointed out the flaws in Rippetoe's teaching but he and his brainswashed followers refuse to listen.
@@MikeXCSkier no one cares of what you sayin cause we dont know you and you dont have any content presented to the public...also there is no 3rd pull
@@the_third_sun I posted this 3 months ago. Since then, I stated that I would be more positive in my comments to Rippetoe and I will extend that courtesy to you. You are right: I have no UA-cam content, I am not a weightlifting coach, and I am not some great weightlifter. I am a masters weightlifter with a bad back trying to do the best I can in the sport. Having said that, here is how I understand the concept of the "third pull." When the lower body finishes its job, the second pull (or "explosion" as the Russians call it is over) is finished. Depending on the weight, the bar may still go upward a little more due to momentum, but if the bar is heavy this momentum ends very quickly. Even Rippetoe said so in one of his videos. When the bar is heavy the best we can hope for is the bar stays at the highest point its reached for a fraction of a second. For this fraction of a second, the bar is "weightless." The lifter must now get under the bar to catch it. This is true for a power clean but even more so for a clean. In order to catch the bar, the lifter must drop faster than the bar. However, we know from physics that the acceleration of gravity is constant, meaning that objects will fall to the earth at the same speed regardless of how much the object weighs. This is where the "third pull" comes in. In that split second when the bar is weightless, lifters use their arms to pull against the weightless bar which allows them to pull themselves down faster than the acceleration of gravity. Just to be clear: the arm pull demonstrated in the video is clearly incorrect because it happens too soon. The problem with arm pull is a question of when it happens. Too soon is wrong; after the hips have extended is correct. In a correctly timed arm pull the arms are used not to pull the bar UP but to pull the lifter DOWN. You seem very confident in your statement that there is no such thing as a third pull. If that is the case, please explain to me how lifters can get under the bar to catch the bar BEFORE it starts falling back to the ground without using their arms to pull themselves down faster than the acceleration of gravity?
@@MikeXCSkier there is no 3rd pull cause when you are in full extension you re not lifting with your arms the bar any further ...now as far getting under the bar fast most coaches in greece are saying just be close to the bar and get under it fast at which you are getting better with practice...there are some cues to help you visualize the movement better but you re just getting under it...i got what you sayin but this just happens naturally you dont have to think about pulling the bar or whatever...personally when i try to pull the bar with my arms to get under it i just mess my timing and my form, hips coming forward ,position gets off, getting on my toes, im slowing down and also feels really stiff, today also i got chocked somehow...but when i do the move right just finish my extension and get under it without pulling the bar with my arms then the movement feels so fast and smooth like butter, feel the bar flying its really satisfying ...also the explosion of the clean or snatch is very fast ,half a second and maybe less. i dont think you have the time to think about pulling with your arms to get under it it throws off the timing ... i ve never heard from a coach in greece taking about 3rd pull. They are saying lifting with your arms is bad...also pyrros dimas in seminars says that the arms are like ropes, they are not lifting the bar they have to be straight and have nothing to do with the movement...that's all, sorry if my english are bad ,not my language and also i dont have a problem with you i'm just keeping the drama on...im an internet troll ,not in the level of glenn pendlay but im trying :D
ua-cam.com/video/hJ90qqbJZTg/v-deo.html good video of showing perfectly straight elbows