HEAL THE WORLD. TOGETHER!!! What did you think of Venom's characterization in Marvel's Spider-Man 2! Let me know all of your thoughts and be sure to like, share, comment, and subscribe! Thank you all so much for watching!
Amazing job. I knew you would do great, but you did 10x more research and paid a lot more attention to detail than I expected. This was worth the long wait. Thank You Evan 🫡
The MAIN thing that they should have changed about Harry's motivation is that he wants to mass produce the symbiote from the get go. Think about it: the symbiote already talks to him in his mother's voice, we gets hints of that, and there's NO reason he wouldn't want to mass produce the thing that has cured him and could cure others like him. That should have been the main reason for starting the Emily May Foundation, and that should have been the main point he made to get Peter to join him as co-owner. I think that would have helped Harry's development so much in the second and third act, with wanting to "heal the world" with the symbiote. Would have seemed MUCH more in character and not like he was completely brainwashed or manipulated into doing something he didn't want to do. He could have been really hurt by Pete no longer wanting to fulfill their dream when they are so close. Like, I think that's enough to make Venom more comic accurate in the sense that he is just completely blinded by rage and vengeance towards Peter, so much that he's willing to kill him. But Peter won't do the same, and that eventually gets through to him and is what wakes Harry up to what he's actually helping the symbiote to do. And it would lead to Peter understanding why Harry wants to do it after it bonds to him, see all it can do, that is until he finds out it's an alien. I think that would have been a much more natural way of getting us to side with Harry and make the conflict a lot more messy than it is in the base story as is.
There is a cool line that Kraven said when he was fighting Venom, he said: "Do you know what it is like to have your body BETRAY you?!" and if he only knew that the host of that monster he was facing knew that feeling REAAAALLY WELL.
I had the exact same interpretation of how the symbiote developed its personality. Peter unintentionally corrupted it when it bonded to him. A decade of being Spider-Man and all the hardships it brought Peter that he repressed came exploding to the surface when he got this new power that for the first time in a while made him *feel* good and strong again, but also allowed him to finally let loose all that pent up fear and anxiety and resentment that eventually morphed into pure rage at the world for always seemingly giving Peter Parker a bad hand at life for being Spider-Man. Now, he feels he can be better with this enhanced power. Now, he can *force* things to be better. It wouldn't surprise me if while he had the suit he thought that if he had it back during the events of the first game he would have been able to stop Li and Otto well before everything went to hell. His perceived failure to save Otto from villainy and May from her sickness in addition to the rest of the city really destroyed his confidence as a hero, something the symbiote gave him back, but now mixed with his own darkest impulses and intrusive thoughts. Like Harry's voice actor said, we all have darkness within us. It's part of being human, and someone as good as Peter Parker and Harry Osborn are no exception. But if you bury it deep within and let it build up, fester, or otherwise go unaddressed, it can destroy you and everything that's *good* about you. I feel like that's essentially what the symbiote story for Spider-Man has become over the years, and I think it’s a compelling one.
Honestly I think you're right about this Evan. In the comics symbiotes feed on the hosts emotions, so seeing Peter's demons come out with the suit is a good example of that. Not only that but also the personality traits, via the spider symbol.
I think it's brilliant how to truly understand this venom, we must accept and see that the characters themselves never understood the symbiote at all. Especially Miles who was so divorced from the intricacies of the bond. He's yelling out to Harry at the end, screaming "this isn't you, you'd never say that!" Completely invalidating Harry's deep seeded resentment and jealousy. All the characters in the story misinterpreted the symbiote, thought it was evil, and so tried to get rid of it. No wonder many players would assume the same. The story is telling us that. But this video showed how deep it really goes, how wrong everyone was about the authenticity of this portrayal
Well, seeing as how Pete got his own symbiote at the end and was no longer a dick, I'd have to say that this venom IS more evil than other versions of the character. Especially since it's clearly connected to the Knull hivemind.
Great job on all the research and work put into this video. I think you've finally put into words why myself, and so many people love this game and accept this interpretation of Venom. Well done friend!
This video definitely puts into words why I like this version of Venom so much. There is a lot going on with him and he’s just a straight up bad@$$. I was always fine that they were going to Harry Venom in this game because, unlike everyone else, I grew up with the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon and Harry was Venom in that, too. And I definitely feel that Insomniac did a better job with him than that cartoon did (although I still love it). Great work on this video, Evan. Once again, your passion and thoughtfulness when discussing this franchise have really shined through. Keep up the great effort.
Me too I loved this Venom a lot, sure he isn't comic book accurate either but Idc on it as long as you nailed the character, that's why Sam Raimi trilogy is loved (except Topher Grace's Venom which is subjective and I like his more demonic, dark reflection to Peter) despite not being comic-accurate either.
This was beautifully done and is perfectly explained. This video actually makes the story from a 8 to a 9 to me. I loved this so much and the deeper meaning behind everything is just wow and really changes your perspective on what we all thought the story was about or might have been to what it deep down truly was and some eye opening details and some under lying themes. 10/10 video. Thank you for this and i think everyone that has some gripes with the spiderman 2 story should definitely watch this.
Can I just say, and I’m gonna get hate for it but I never liked venom as an antihero. Venom is a fantastic villain and should always be a villain first and foremost. That’s why I love this version of venom.
This is a great video essay that you’ve made! There was a lot of information that I didn’t know existed and it was broken down immensely. While this is not my version of Venom, I still think he was portrayed in such a unique way and he felt more lively. I commend Insomniac for making this great character with their own twist while staying true to other aspects of him from previous media. I hope we could see more of Venom in future and see how he can evolve later in the series.
When it came to the Game Awards last year I wanted Graham Phillips (Harry Osborn) & Noshir Dalal (Bode Akuma Star Wars: Jedi Survivor [who just so happens to play Mysterio])to have been nominated for best preformance.
I agree with your analysis of Venom, but Spider-Man 2 is pretty implicit with a lot of the symbiote’s traits, and it doesn’t spend enough cutscene time exploring how the symbiote accentuates the host’s personality. When Peter gets the suit he becomes more violent and angry, but more importantly he vocalizes resentment towards people he previously showed unending compassion toward, the game doesn’t really state where these emotions would be coming from until after the fact; which I say is better then not at all, but could be better gestured toward while we have black-suit Spider-Man. When Harry becomes Venom, the cutscene after killing Kraven shows the symbiote actively manipulating Harry into this idea that “healing the world” and “spread the symbiote” are synonymous. Done by the symbiote impersonating the voice of Harry’s mom. Manipulation towards Harry is pretty obviously showing the symbiote as the one in charge, but I could excuse it if they showed Harry attempt to justify what he heard and sell it to other characters. Unfortunately, act 3 really speeds through all the plot points, so in order to make things concise they just turn Harry and other characters into unwitting puppets as quickly as possible. Act 3 hinges a lot of the conflict on character drama that really wasn’t set up in a smoothe sequential order, but rather makes things boil over without showing the “simmering” stage.
40:00 This is exactly how I felt the symbiotes increased aggression came from as well! I thought this was my own little headcanon because I haven't seen or heard anyone else point it out. Hell yeah Evan, great video!
I have absolutely no words to describe the way I feel right now! There are so many things you brought up that I never would've thought about before! I'm actually playing Spider-Man two with new game plus and I just finished the agent venom mission. I already loved this Symbiote story since the game came out, but you explaining how it was also a main character really opened my eyes to things I never thought about before! thank you for making me love this game, this Symbiote, and this version of venom even more than I already do! 😁❤️
I know that I am writing this before I watch the video but really looking forward to watching this and taking your view on the characterization of Venom as a character. Keep up the content!
I don't care what people say, I love this version of Venom in Marvel's Spider-Man 2 because he's vicious and unpredictable like Ultimate Venom in the Ultimate Spider-Man video game, which shows how much I love the Ultimate Universe.
Unpredictable? My guy he had the most standard take over the world plan ever, unpredictable would’ve been if they had Venom stalking Peter and haunting him, psychologically
@@mrmelonman2893Harry was a dying man who wanted to heal the world, and the symbiote offered him a twisted version of that dream through turning others into symbiote infected zombies. The game made Venom more than just a stalker out to kill Spider-Man. Venom was actually a threat to the safety of not only New York City but the entire planet. And his relations with Peter (being that Harry is his best friend) as well his motivations makes Venom a very sympathetic character. Venom doesn't want to take over the world for no reason, Harry wants to help people with the same suffering as him, but the symbiote gives him the twisted version of what he wants. Venom was great but needed more screentime.
This is a beautifully explained breakdown. I played the game twice and never took an Indepth look at all of this. Made me tear up alil again towards 40:00
Peter being venom would’ve been a fantastic twist with the plot of being a better spider man turnt up to 11 and having a reversal of Pete and Otto in the first game and Peter can “retire” because he almost caused a alien invasion
You're not the only one that loves venom as a number one favorite Spider-Man villain character! I also absolutely love venom as well, We definitely have a lawn in common Evan! (I even like tnas Spider-Man series as well)
Your UA-cam channel is absolutely amazing! The content you create is both entertaining and informative,The production quality, creativity, and passion you put into your videos are evident in every frame. keeping me hooked with every video. Keep up the fantastic work, you're doing a fantastic job! 😊👍
Awesome breakdown, Evan 👍🔥. Still kinda hoping we get a Venom game one day. It’s shame they cancelled that online multiplayer Spider-Man game. Swinging with friends would have been so fun.
Bro you killed this damn video I’m sitting here high, watching it while eating a Debbie cake and just hearing how smooth you are with your words the cut scenes the swinging, and that rage part was hard as fuck.😂
This is probably one of the greatest narrative lore’s that I’ve ever known about in my life (especially for a video game). Absolutely insane and incredible. Also, I really hope that Insomniac decides to do Scorn and Hybrid in the future since they already did Scream and with them teasing Carnage now, cause that would make me go ballistic.
Future Foundation was gonna play a huge role originally in SM2, but I think what was cut is gonna be in the Venom game. I don't know how else they could do it.
I still believe the symbiote to be a conduit for all those negative actions/emotions that Peter/Harry faced. They were all brought to the forefront once they dawned the suit
I think Carnage is gonna play a huge roll in Knolls return in the Insomniac gamerverse because he keeps preaching the "CRIMSON HOUR" I'm not gonna just ignore the prophecies he's preaching and their connection to Knoll.
I'll accept Harry Osborn as Venom as a antagonist and final boss for this game, but if they make a Venom solo game, I seriously think either Eddie Brock or Flash Thompson should become his next host, I think Venoms own should star someone who actually was Venom host in the comics.
Agreed but that’s not gonna happen. It wouldn’t make sense continuity-wise for their universe and they’ve already made their decision of keeping Harry in there
@hotarot2700 Just because Harry Osborn is still alive does not mean he's going to be Venom anymore, especially since him coming out of that coma would ruin Norman Osborns motivation for going after Spider-Man. I also doubt Harry will want anything to do with the Symbiote after the Hell put him and his friends through, also the leaked title is called Lethal Protector implying Venom will be killing criminals, I can't picture Harry killing criminals on his own free will.
@@robertkenny1201 thank! You! that’s what I’ve been saying this whole time. people don’t understand that harry staying bonded to the symbiote would completely undermine Norman’s story going forward after that scene. without that, he has no reason to go through with hunting down Peter and miles. Harry would be okay, and that’s all that would matter in the end. no G serum, green goblin period. plus does anyone think Harry would be okay with killing or eating bad guys? especially after how he reacted to when he killed kraven? I don’t and it doesn’t make sense going forward. hell even the doctor said the chances of him coming out of his coma is slim.
Dude you did an amazing job in this video, you should be hired for future insomniac spider man games because thanks to you I learned more about the symbotie
The ONLY criticism I really have, is that we didn't get to see the typical aspect of Venom sort of haunting Pete. Everything else, perfect 🤌. Great work on the video! This must have been an absurd amount of work and really quite mentally straining. 👏🏼
@zacharybosley1935 That's Harry. I do agree though, I liked the tension that gave. I mean like in the 90s cartoon, spectacular series etc, where he'd show up randomly round the city. Not quite sure how you'd do that in a game though anyway. I'm very very happy with what we got but if I has to give any criticism, that would be it
Would’ve been cool they did something similar to the Man Bat jumpscare(s) from Arkham Knight where Venom randomly attacks you while you’re swinging. Not sure if it would work better as a mini boss fight, a QTE, or Venom just leaving after scaring you, but there are options to make it work
My theory is that Symbiote was in coma at first, but it woke up after Harry went full rage, when he saw peter getting stabbed by Kraven. It chose peter to bring all that rage that he's been hidden all this time to consume to become stronger. Eventually Venom became complete when it went back to Harry with this rage, who deep down wanted revenge towards kraven and the hunters for what they did to EMF, which was his biggest dream and Peter too for betraying him after saving his life.
I actually like this venom abit more than the normal one. Because he doesn't actually want to hurt anyone(other than Kraven and Miles)because in his mind,what he is doing is right. It was definitely a risk for them to make Harry venom but I think it was a risk that paid off because the story of the game was better for it. It also wouldn't make sense for anyone else to be Venom. Harry's story makes perfect sense to me. This was a great video👍
Would have been cool if there was a mission with Miles and Harry as agent venom on where they actually get to know each other. Maybe even after the mission they get pizza or something and there we get them bonding over their shared losses.
great analysis this is a different take on the character, but points well made Personally, I’m still bumped out the fact that they didn’t give venom web shooters and things of that nature but yes, in the game even in the miles boss fight they could’ve had more interactions as you said in the video. Overall, I still think this character has more potential to be fleshed out even more.
Just finished replaying the game and while I love this version of Venom, the third act definitely feels a bit rushed, especially after doing all the side missions beforehand. Do you think it's possible that we could get a dlc expansion for the third act, akin the Assassin's Creed 2 expansion?
I absolutely loved this video only thing I hate is Sony for rushing Insomniac into them scrambling the 3rd act thats why it feels rushed I feel as though maybe if the game was delayed to summer or fall of 2024 the 3rd act would've been just as long if not longer than act 2 which is needed for Venom
To be honest I like this version of Venom in Spider-Man 2. Instead of just being motivated to kill Peter it takes a page out of Web of shadows to take over the world and we see in a few scenes of how it tries to take over Miles and MJ. It’s also a nice touch that they added Scream because it would show the full potential of the symbiote rather than just making copies of itself. It’s not a perfect story but I like how Insomniac explores the effect it can bring to the other characters when they get involved. It’s like they thought what would happen if Eddie never got the symbiote.
I agree with your breakdown but I also personally feel that there was an element of stress at play here with how MJ, Pete and even Harry/The Symbiote just aired out their dirty laundry in a fight and it was part of them breaking free from the symbiotes hold on them. I could just be looking way too deep into it but I think back to how Pete and Harry were feeling energized and upbeat. But the relentless force of Kraven brought out the animal in them both and kinda corrupted the symbiote in a way.
Spectacular Spider-Man needs a third season. I could be wrong about this but I think Peter will give the Anti-Venom suit to Harry in the third game. Amazing video Evan keep it up.
You are SERIOUSLY misunderstanding the symbiote in this game. Did we watch the same opening cutscene? The suit gives him a sadistic nightmare telling Harry he will NEVER be free. He talks about hearing from his mother as he slept in his treatment container. It gave him the idea for the Emily May foundation. We then see the suit play off the ideas that it put itself inside Harry’s head when convincing him to agree to the plan to spread more symbiotes across the planet. It immediately on contact tried to take Connor’s arm. It is evil. It gaslights everyone into believing it is Harry in the driver seat, but we are constantly shown after the Kraven fight, Harry is just a puppet and a battery. Pay attention to dialogue please.
I didn't hear the suit speak in that opening cut scene. Did I miss something? I'm genuinely curious. When I played this game the other three times before the big update came out, I used headphones. This time I didn't use headphones and after the agent venom mission When the Symbiote reaches for Peter again you hear Tony Todd's voice in the controller say, "Peter" and that scared the shit out of me! Is it something like that where I should not use headphones during the opening scene?
@@Motherofdragons4780 He means as Norman is making contact with Harry and letting it bond with him Norman says “I’ll never let you go” and Harry starts screaming it’s the symbiote pretty much directly talking to him through Norman in a nightmare it induced Harry with telling him it’s not gonna let go of him
@@Sully.. oh wow! I didn't know that, I just assumed it was showing when Norman put Harry in that tank and attached the Symbiote to him! That's interesting!
@@Motherofdragons4780 I thought that too on my first play though lmao I thought what a weird and seemingly painful thing to do in the potentially last time he would interact with his kid then when Harry mentioned he had awful nightmares I put it together and realized that the symbiote was still isolated and floating in the tank while it was on Norman and Harry I also thought dang he kinda just passed on the suit pretty easily that’s odd then the realization happened lol
Yeah that opening cutscene isn’t clear that it’s the symbiote posing as his dad and with the imagery of the pod shutting closed, and considering the fact even at the end of the game, and hell, throughout before even the first game with Harry’s mother which caused his experiments on Martin Lee, I personally took that opening scene (and assume most people did) as Norman’s inability to let his loved ones go. He’s clearly not over his wife’s death and has kept his son in a pod for years, being treated on by a massive hail mary of something he doesn’t even fully understand, I definitely buy that Harry is having a nightmare about his dad keeping him on life support with extreme experiments because he cannot just let his family go. Ffs at the end of the game, he called someone asking for the G-Serum because the symbiote is gone and his son is again terminal. Going even further, if we do take Dr. Connor’s incident as a malicious attack by the symbiote and not a reasonable panic attack by a scientist being grabbed by an completely unfamiliar alien that’s trying to bond with him, Norman taking this alien that supposedly attacked the first person it came into contact with and using it to TREAT HIS SON FOR YEARS is further confirmation that Norman is not someone to let his son go because that is an extreme measure to take when your son is dying and you own the biggest biotech company in New York. Norman is characterized by not letting go of his son after being traumatized by his wife passing and seeing how extreme he is with this (Martin Lee, Devils Breath, potentially dangerous alien creature), I wouldn’t put it past Harry feeling suffocated by his dad’s inability to let his family go. Now granted I understand that throughout Spider-Man 2, Harry is happy to be alive and out of the pod, I’m not saying he wanted to die but we don’t know how he got in that pod. We don’t know if Harry knew what happened with Connors or if he knew about Lee. If he did and even if he didn’t, because the pod was clearly one of the most extreme risks Norman would’ve made to keep Harry alive, Harry could’ve felt hopeless and might’ve given up on himself but wasn’t allowed to give up because his dad would not let him go. Really think about it for a second. How many attempts, how many doctors, how much advanced science and how much resources would Norman have already tried on Harry to cure him before putting his son in a pod with an alien? How many times has Harry seen failure after failure after failure after his mother already died from the same illness?? How much hope can a dude have when all fails and everything basically says you’re incurable? Norman refuses to give up because he can’t lose another loved one. He will never let his son go as long as he can still have him. I really think this is far more accurate to the nightmare scene than the symbote because if it was the symbiote making those dreams happen, wouldn’t he mention it to Dr. Connors upon release? Or mention it to Peter when they he finds out about the suit? He seems completely fine wearing the symbiote throughout the game so I don’t see your claim holding up, oppose the constant reminder that Norman is obsessed with keeping his son alive throughout both games. I think you’re honestly hyper focusing on the symbiote and the idea of it being evil without considering Norman’s character in context to the nightmare and the extremely human reaction to having alien goo cling to your arm. Like seriously dude, people freak out if a commonly known creature crawls on them, let alone an alien. Connors is a biologist. He is more aware of the possibility of becoming infected with a virus or a parasite and considering the alien life-form was a slimy thing, yeah I wouldn’t want whatever that is to infect my bloodstream either so I’d probably cut my arm off too to prevent whatever it can do to me, become permanently effective across my body. It’s stupid that he reached out with a bare had but that’s besides the point because we’re discussing it potentially having harmed Connors or if he just freaked out about it grabbing him when he did willingly touch it.
So glad you brought up how this game isn’t the only one where the symbiotie is evil. So many people especially on twitter seem to think that’s the case, and while I love spectacular SM they ignore that part of the show where it’s also just typical evil alien.
It's not that he's evil that's the problem, it's the fact that venom MAJOR CHARACTER TRAIT IS TO HATE AND DESPISE SPIDERMAN. which is completely missing from this game. That's why his name is venom, it's to symbolize that he is Peter's poison. And with the fact that the symbiote and Harry aren't even in unison he's not venom. U can like this character all u want but he's not venom
This breakdown is gonna be very dope. To me, Insomniac's interpretation of Venom even though it's Harry is like a combination of Eddie Brock/Venom from Unlimited (plans to take over the world with symbiotes) and Spectacular (personal connection to Peter Parker and motivation of rejection)
Nah this venom is very very different. It’s nothing like the comics. Tbh this story is basically Harry osborn’s green goblin arc but done with venom. Which is not a bad idea. I find this venom pretty scary tbh, because he holds this dying man captive and he wants to use him to spread his race. He doesn’t want to let go, neither the dying man can let go cause it’s the only thing keeping him alive. Spider-Man 2’s story is like a horror movie. Their friendship is so innocent and beautiful. Then symbiote comes in their life, and breaks them apart. Then after Peter got rid of it, it went after Harry and refusing to let go, while Peter is desperate to save him.
I have yet to watch the whole Analysis and don't hate me for this but I watched the conclusion to find out what your real thoughts were. After watching that part I'm not only looking forward to watching your Deep Dive into Insom's Venom and you have given me a new appreciation for this take on Venom and this game. I'm currantly playing NG+ for the first time and I. AM. LOVING. IT! I know many people including yourself Evan think the game isn't perfect or not as good as the previous games but the new update just made it all the much better and everytime I replay MARVEL'S SPIDER-MAN 2 I love it even more for it's craftsmanship in how it surpasses the previous games down the Side Content, Gameplay, Graphics, Sound Design, Animation, Voice Acting and especially the part most people have a problem with The Story! I know everyone is entitled to their own opinions but I think the whole story, especially in it's Third Act is a LOT better than what a lot of people give the game credit for. Just sayin.
Venom is one of my top favorite comic characters ever, but TBH I've never really been the biggest fan when Harry was the host. However, this game has changed my opinion on that. This Venom was a BEAST and a true Avengers Level Threat. Both he and Kraven made Marvel's Spider-Man 2 my favorite game of 2023.
For me Venom never really cared about Harry for this reason: While he did do some heroic actions when he was bonded with Harry, his was likely done just to hide his alien nature since he was disguising himself as an exo-suit. It is also explicitly stated by Connors that the tank that Harry was in also subdued him, meaning Venom was also too weak to resist Harry's decisions, but after joining with Peter, he became strong enough to start enacting a hold on his hosts. He also attempted to bond with Peter Parker/Spider-Man whenever the two got into close contact with each other and forcibly refused to re-bond to Harry after succeeding in doing so. He also influenced Peter into not wanting to give him back, showing that Venom never really cared for Harry to begin with and only re-bonded with him since he had no other options. This is even emphasized by Connors, who notes that the symbiote chose Peter and left Harry on his own accord rather than Harry giving it to him voluntarily, showing that Venom only sees Harry as a pawn.
You did really well man, truly you did. Though I do have one and a half critiques if you don’t mind me saying. For one, easy suggestion and this isn’t a huge deal but I find it kinda off when listening to a long video from you and you’re using your IGN news voice inflections. Like c’mon man, you don’t always have to have that voice in every video. It works well with news stuff I guess but it just feels weird in a long breakdown like this one for me. Second-ish thing, this is even a lesser deal but while I loved how you talked about Harry and Venom both feeling rejected by Peter, I feel you didn’t go into that as much as I would’ve because honestly, this concept of Venom is my current favorite ever because with Eddie, all they share is a hatred for Spider-Man and that’s about it. Take literally any other villain like Green Goblin, Kingpin, Otto Octavious, Scorpion, literally any other Spider-Man villain and they would work equally well bonded to the symbiote as Eddie Brock. Now for Harry, they not only hate Peter together but they hate him for a shared reason as you said, they both feel rejected by Peter. I just wish you went a little further in explaining that they were also both left to die by Peter from their mutual perspectives. Harry (reasonably considering how many failures probably has Norman had with curing his son before the tank) doesn’t see any other way he can survive than the symbiote and speaking of, Peter literally went to Connors with the explicit intent to destroying the alien. Both the symbiote and Harry saw Peter as a friend they loved but both were essentially left to die by that friend which I think is a much deeper bond than Eddie ever had. While I always liked Venom, I never really cared for Eddie the same way because as I said, the only thing tied them together was a standard shared hatred that a dozen other characters already had so what made Eddie so special? So yeah, just wish you went a little more into this symbiotic bonding between these two but it’s not too big of a deal. I would like to mention one more small thing about Harry and Venom’s connection being narratively stronger than Eddie and that’s how they got bonded in the first place. Eddie is a reporter which sure, means that he goes places that can be dangerous and have extreme stuff going on so he does have more of a chance running into an alien entity. But you know who has far more of a chance running into an alien creature? Norman Osborne. The CEO of the biggest biotech company in New York. He has hundreds of scientists, researchers and labs all over the place. His reach with all those scientists and all his tech that probably includes satellites and seismic radars would definitely make him one of the first people possible to claim possession of an alien that landed in New York via asteroid. And yes, I’m glossing over the fact Peter usually finds the alien first and Eddie gets it from him (even though Norman likes to keep tabs on Spider-Man and probably could easily snag the symbiote for himself at the first opportunity), but honestly, how likely is Eddie to randomly be at the right place at the right time to get the symbiote from Peter, oppose to literally any other New Yorker? So anyways I think it’s another great, reasonable, narrative connection between Harry and the symbiote that Eddie unfortunately lacks. I’m probably gunna make a video talking about this whenever I’m out of my depressive rut but these things make Harry my personal favorite host for Venom because he feels so much more tied to the symbiote than Eddie or literally anyone else had and I honestly wish more people took their interpretation with an open mind without reflexively clinging to the status quo. Like people still hate this version of Venom simply because it’s not Eddie and I know it’s controversial to say but maybe, just maybe, a character that has existed for decades, might function better as a revamped concept. I personally think if people put down their pitchforks and Venom comics and actually thought about this new Venom, I think potentially this could be the new status quo. And yeah, maybe that means Eddie wouldn’t really exist anymore. Maybe he’d only be used as an adult supplement for Flash Thomson, being a bully for Peter in the office. But I just think the Venom concept works better for Harry than Eddie because of all the reasons I said here. I could even go further in saying Harry doesn’t usually have anything going with him other than being Peter’s friend and giving Peter a personal connection to the Green Goblin. But I’ve been rambling a lot already so, thanks for reading if you still are. Please share your thoughts in the replies and take my comment about the voice into consideration man. It’s not annoying, just feels weird ya’know?
I think there is some truth to what you’re saying, HOWEVER: We did not need to go through this many leaps for Doc Ock nor Phin for character motivation and direction. I think Venom in this game is just alright. He’s not great or bad, just meh. Great analysis though, even if I think some of the reasoning can be a bit headcanon-ish
Ock & the Tinkerer have a pretty significant advantage over the symbiote, in the sense that they can straight-up tell people what they're thinking and feeling. The Symbiote can only communicate through Venom.
Good story-telling is not needing the characters to outright tell you how they are feeling. As an audience member, you should be able to tell what they are feeling based off of their actions. @@zacharybosley1935
I don't know why people hate this venom, or even Harry being Venom. Honestly, he's one of my favorite Venom adaptations. It was freaking cool playing as Venom as well and the way his character is was perfect. The symbiote isn't a monster or anything like that but it amplifies what the host feels and twists them.
32:39 Actually, I think that we will later find out (in either DLC or the next game) that Norman was bonded with the symbiote before Harry. In the scene where Harry first gets the symbiote, we see it crawl from Norman's body to Harry's body. At this moment, I think they're showing us that Norman had at least a small bond with the symbiote. There could be a little bit of foreshadowing in this scene.
I like when there is no reconciling the relationship between venom and Spider-Man. He hates Peters too much. It makes for a more compelling conflict. Harry and Peter would still be best pals if it wasn’t for the Symbiote controlling him. There needed to be some falling out between them to create more of a conflict and drama. Think spectacular Spider-Man. Eddie and Peters relationship is so much more compelling because Eddie started out as Peters closest friend before they have a falling out to the point of where their friendship can’t be salvaged. It’s much more tragic that way. But with Harry he’s still his friend. There’s no damage done to their relationship.
@@robertkenny1201 that will be stupid if they shove in another host like Eddie Brock. Him and Peter have no relationship. It would be like Tom hardy venom. Their probably better off keeping Harry, at least he has prior history with Spider-Man
@spider-jonah-man7148 It would be a middle finger for Venom fans everywhere to have Venoms own game star Harry instead of Eddie also Harry coming that coma would ruin Norman's motivation for going after Spider-Man, and I doubt Harry would want anything to do with Venom after the Hell it put him and his friends through. Also the leaked title is called Lethal Protector implying Venom will be killing criminals in it, and I can't picture Harry Osborn willingly killing criminals on his own free will. I'm sorry to break this to you, but Eddie Brock is more likely to be introduced to take up the mantle. They could easily introduce Eddie Brock build up as a character and give him a motivation to hate Spider-Man.
It's from the second phase of the Venom vs Kraven Boss. It's a line that only plays if the fight drags on long enough. There's actually a lot of instances of cool dialogue like this only playing when fights drag for too long. It's not just for boss fights, but regular fights in certain missions too. It's like Insomniac expected us to take longer to beat enemies on average. An example of dialogue I like but is kinda stuck behind this format is the dialogue from the gameplay reveal. Peter has a cool line where he says "If Kraven wants a hunt, I'll give him one he'll never forget! He's gonna wish he never came to New York!" It's still in the game, but it's actually hard to trigger because that fight both has to be dragged out for a really long time, and the Hunter who speaks that prompts Peter to respond also has to still be conscious.
Was cool explained only if it was as it is in the game. The Symbiote is evil from the start, as you could see in the first scene when it grabs into Connors's arm.
Having this broken down for me makes me appreciate the game more but at the same time I wish we would have gotten more with venom. Maybe I would've not been as harsh
It's crazy you mention Knull, because this Venom encounters Knull in a recent comic and Knull threatens and states how lucky Venom is he hasn't visited there yet
This video was long before that comic to be fair. Not even a given the comic will be canon to the game in the long run anyway, as Insomniac might decide to retcon things further with the supposed Venom game.
It was fun seeing all the newer symbiote lore and even the dragon wings get incorporated. My only issue was Harry's original suit. I love Agent Venom and that made me think we probably won't get Flash Thompson as a host ever
In fact, all I wanted from Marvel's Spider-Man 2 was a feature to switch between a regular suit and a symbiote suit with one button, but unfortunately this did not happen.
Evan i will admit i was not the biggest fan of this version's venom since I was so used to other interpretation of venom especially Eddie Brock. And to be fair the cover art of the game where the spider men jumped venom and the promotional trailer for SM2, set my expectation accordingly that we were gonna have a big brawl spanning across the city. I liked how u considered the symbiote as a character and like u said the main themes of venom are still there but its written in a different manner with Harry Osborne. Im just really bummed out that we didn't have a longer 3rd act for this game with the city covered in symbiote goo it just felt so short and the story missions during that act didn't live up to its potential which soured me even more, cause the first game third act felt so robust compared to this game third act.
This venom is just a downgraded version of spectacular venom he's got no personality, no relationship with harry and the suit and he's just a monster who wants to make everyone like him, just like web of shadows.
HEAL THE WORLD. TOGETHER!!! What did you think of Venom's characterization in Marvel's Spider-Man 2! Let me know all of your thoughts and be sure to like, share, comment, and subscribe! Thank you all so much for watching!
Amazing job. I knew you would do great, but you did 10x more research and paid a lot more attention to detail than I expected. This was worth the long wait. Thank You Evan 🫡
The MAIN thing that they should have changed about Harry's motivation is that he wants to mass produce the symbiote from the get go. Think about it: the symbiote already talks to him in his mother's voice, we gets hints of that, and there's NO reason he wouldn't want to mass produce the thing that has cured him and could cure others like him. That should have been the main reason for starting the Emily May Foundation, and that should have been the main point he made to get Peter to join him as co-owner.
I think that would have helped Harry's development so much in the second and third act, with wanting to "heal the world" with the symbiote. Would have seemed MUCH more in character and not like he was completely brainwashed or manipulated into doing something he didn't want to do. He could have been really hurt by Pete no longer wanting to fulfill their dream when they are so close. Like, I think that's enough to make Venom more comic accurate in the sense that he is just completely blinded by rage and vengeance towards Peter, so much that he's willing to kill him. But Peter won't do the same, and that eventually gets through to him and is what wakes Harry up to what he's actually helping the symbiote to do. And it would lead to Peter understanding why Harry wants to do it after it bonds to him, see all it can do, that is until he finds out it's an alien.
I think that would have been a much more natural way of getting us to side with Harry and make the conflict a lot more messy than it is in the base story as is.
Incredible video, very well done!
There is a cool line that Kraven said when he was fighting Venom, he said: "Do you know what it is like to have your body BETRAY you?!" and if he only knew that the host of that monster he was facing knew that feeling REAAAALLY WELL.
I had the exact same interpretation of how the symbiote developed its personality. Peter unintentionally corrupted it when it bonded to him. A decade of being Spider-Man and all the hardships it brought Peter that he repressed came exploding to the surface when he got this new power that for the first time in a while made him *feel* good and strong again, but also allowed him to finally let loose all that pent up fear and anxiety and resentment that eventually morphed into pure rage at the world for always seemingly giving Peter Parker a bad hand at life for being Spider-Man.
Now, he feels he can be better with this enhanced power. Now, he can *force* things to be better. It wouldn't surprise me if while he had the suit he thought that if he had it back during the events of the first game he would have been able to stop Li and Otto well before everything went to hell. His perceived failure to save Otto from villainy and May from her sickness in addition to the rest of the city really destroyed his confidence as a hero, something the symbiote gave him back, but now mixed with his own darkest impulses and intrusive thoughts. Like Harry's voice actor said, we all have darkness within us. It's part of being human, and someone as good as Peter Parker and Harry Osborn are no exception. But if you bury it deep within and let it build up, fester, or otherwise go unaddressed, it can destroy you and everything that's *good* about you.
I feel like that's essentially what the symbiote story for Spider-Man has become over the years, and I think it’s a compelling one.
Honestly I think you're right about this Evan. In the comics symbiotes feed on the hosts emotions, so seeing Peter's demons come out with the suit is a good example of that. Not only that but also the personality traits, via the spider symbol.
"I see your true form you are death cloaked in this flesh I've never felt such pain" ngl that went hard
I think it's brilliant how to truly understand this venom, we must accept and see that the characters themselves never understood the symbiote at all. Especially Miles who was so divorced from the intricacies of the bond. He's yelling out to Harry at the end, screaming "this isn't you, you'd never say that!" Completely invalidating Harry's deep seeded resentment and jealousy.
All the characters in the story misinterpreted the symbiote, thought it was evil, and so tried to get rid of it. No wonder many players would assume the same. The story is telling us that. But this video showed how deep it really goes, how wrong everyone was about the authenticity of this portrayal
Well, seeing as how Pete got his own symbiote at the end and was no longer a dick, I'd have to say that this venom IS more evil than other versions of the character. Especially since it's clearly connected to the Knull hivemind.
Great job on all the research and work put into this video. I think you've finally put into words why myself, and so many people love this game and accept this interpretation of Venom. Well done friend!
I really liked the Spectacular Spider-Man’s version of Venom. Man, that show deserved a third season.
I’ve always preferred the interpretation that the symbiote is the victim of its hosts and you’ve perfectly explained why. Great video
Instead of breaking down venom, can't we build him up? :(
No he sucks
Nah, Peter burnt the venom symbiote to a crisp lol
Sure we can. Only issue he could have used more screentime
@@mrmelonman2893You hate Venom? That’s weird
@@DarkLord-hl1finah hes my favorite. this venom sucks
This video definitely puts into words why I like this version of Venom so much. There is a lot going on with him and he’s just a straight up bad@$$.
I was always fine that they were going to Harry Venom in this game because, unlike everyone else, I grew up with the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon and Harry was Venom in that, too. And I definitely feel that Insomniac did a better job with him than that cartoon did (although I still love it).
Great work on this video, Evan. Once again, your passion and thoughtfulness when discussing this franchise have really shined through. Keep up the great effort.
Me too I loved this Venom a lot, sure he isn't comic book accurate either but Idc on it as long as you nailed the character, that's why Sam Raimi trilogy is loved (except Topher Grace's Venom which is subjective and I like his more demonic, dark reflection to Peter) despite not being comic-accurate either.
This was beautifully done and is perfectly explained. This video actually makes the story from a 8 to a 9 to me. I loved this so much and the deeper meaning behind everything is just wow and really changes your perspective on what we all thought the story was about or might have been to what it deep down truly was and some eye opening details and some under lying themes. 10/10 video. Thank you for this and i think everyone that has some gripes with the spiderman 2 story should definitely watch this.
“…the man behind the goo”
“ *OKAY THAT CAME OUT WRONG* “
WOW calm down
Can I just say, and I’m gonna get hate for it but I never liked venom as an antihero. Venom is a fantastic villain and should always be a villain first and foremost. That’s why I love this version of venom.
This is a great video essay that you’ve made! There was a lot of information that I didn’t know existed and it was broken down immensely. While this is not my version of Venom, I still think he was portrayed in such a unique way and he felt more lively. I commend Insomniac for making this great character with their own twist while staying true to other aspects of him from previous media. I hope we could see more of Venom in future and see how he can evolve later in the series.
When it came to the Game Awards last year I wanted Graham Phillips (Harry Osborn) & Noshir Dalal (Bode Akuma Star Wars: Jedi Survivor [who just so happens to play Mysterio])to have been nominated for best preformance.
I agree with your analysis of Venom, but Spider-Man 2 is pretty implicit with a lot of the symbiote’s traits, and it doesn’t spend enough cutscene time exploring how the symbiote accentuates the host’s personality.
When Peter gets the suit he becomes more violent and angry, but more importantly he vocalizes resentment towards people he previously showed unending compassion toward, the game doesn’t really state where these emotions would be coming from until after the fact; which I say is better then not at all, but could be better gestured toward while we have black-suit Spider-Man.
When Harry becomes Venom, the cutscene after killing Kraven shows the symbiote actively manipulating Harry into this idea that “healing the world” and “spread the symbiote” are synonymous. Done by the symbiote impersonating the voice of Harry’s mom. Manipulation towards Harry is pretty obviously showing the symbiote as the one in charge, but I could excuse it if they showed Harry attempt to justify what he heard and sell it to other characters. Unfortunately, act 3 really speeds through all the plot points, so in order to make things concise they just turn Harry and other characters into unwitting puppets as quickly as possible. Act 3 hinges a lot of the conflict on character drama that really wasn’t set up in a smoothe sequential order, but rather makes things boil over without showing the “simmering” stage.
40:00 This is exactly how I felt the symbiotes increased aggression came from as well! I thought this was my own little headcanon because I haven't seen or heard anyone else point it out.
Hell yeah Evan, great video!
I have absolutely no words to describe the way I feel right now! There are so many things you brought up that I never would've thought about before! I'm actually playing Spider-Man two with new game plus and I just finished the agent venom mission. I already loved this Symbiote story since the game came out, but you explaining how it was also a main character really opened my eyes to things I never thought about before! thank you for making me love this game, this Symbiote, and this version of venom even more than I already do! 😁❤️
I know that I am writing this before I watch the video but really looking forward to watching this and taking your view on the characterization of Venom as a character. Keep up the content!
Hes great
54:47 I kid you not I thought you were making a Ben 10 reference since Harry is played by Graham Phillips 😂😂😂
I don't care what people say, I love this version of Venom in Marvel's Spider-Man 2 because he's vicious and unpredictable like Ultimate Venom in the Ultimate Spider-Man video game, which shows how much I love the Ultimate Universe.
Half of this paragraph is useless just say “I like this vicious and unpredictable venom”
@@DigitalRag3X Whatever 😒😒
Unpredictable? My guy he had the most standard take over the world plan ever, unpredictable would’ve been if they had Venom stalking Peter and haunting him, psychologically
Unpredictable? He literally had the most generic take over the world plot ever
@@mrmelonman2893Harry was a dying man who wanted to heal the world, and the symbiote offered him a twisted version of that dream through turning others into symbiote infected zombies. The game made Venom more than just a stalker out to kill Spider-Man. Venom was actually a threat to the safety of not only New York City but the entire planet. And his relations with Peter (being that Harry is his best friend) as well his motivations makes Venom a very sympathetic character.
Venom doesn't want to take over the world for no reason, Harry wants to help people with the same suffering as him, but the symbiote gives him the twisted version of what he wants. Venom was great but needed more screentime.
This is a beautifully explained breakdown. I played the game twice and never took an Indepth look at all of this. Made me tear up alil again towards 40:00
Peter being venom would’ve been a fantastic twist with the plot of being a better spider man turnt up to 11 and having a reversal of Pete and Otto in the first game and Peter can “retire” because he almost caused a alien invasion
You're not the only one that loves venom as a number one favorite Spider-Man villain character!
I also absolutely love venom as well, We definitely have a lawn in common Evan!
(I even like tnas Spider-Man series as well)
That was one of the best breakdowns I’ve ever scene, well done Even 👏 👏👏
Gotta love that it's the voice of Moe from the Simpsons playing Eddie and Venom in the OG 1990s Spider-Man TAS.
I’m sure this will finally change some people’s minds. Thanks for making an analysis on Venom, Evan. I’ve been waiting so long for this!
you cant gaslight people into liking a venom that is absolutely nothing like him
3:49 Venom as Spider-Man’s Greatest Failure. Yeah.
And now Sting’s ‘Monster You Created’ is playing in my head.
Arcane is a masterpiece!
Your UA-cam channel is absolutely amazing! The content you create is both entertaining and informative,The production quality, creativity, and passion you put into your videos are evident in every frame. keeping me hooked with every video. Keep up the fantastic work, you're doing a fantastic job! 😊👍
Awesome breakdown, Evan 👍🔥. Still kinda hoping we get a Venom game one day. It’s shame they cancelled that online multiplayer Spider-Man game. Swinging with friends would have been so fun.
_I feel like people will appreciate Spider-man 2's story more after more time passes._
Bro you killed this damn video I’m sitting here high, watching it while eating a Debbie cake and just hearing how smooth you are with your words the cut scenes the swinging, and that rage part was hard as fuck.😂
This is probably one of the greatest narrative lore’s that I’ve ever known about in my life (especially for a video game). Absolutely insane and incredible. Also, I really hope that Insomniac decides to do Scorn and Hybrid in the future since they already did Scream and with them teasing Carnage now, cause that would make me go ballistic.
Future Foundation was gonna play a huge role originally in SM2, but I think what was cut is gonna be in the Venom game. I don't know how else they could do it.
This is the best breakdown of all time.
I still believe the symbiote to be a conduit for all those negative actions/emotions that Peter/Harry faced. They were all brought to the forefront once they dawned the suit
I think Carnage is gonna play a huge roll in Knolls return in the Insomniac gamerverse because he keeps preaching the "CRIMSON HOUR" I'm not gonna just ignore the prophecies he's preaching and their connection to Knoll.
You believe Knull could be in the Venom game?
Honestly it would be cool 😎 but who knows if they will go there right away, for all we know venom could do well enough to have its own trilogy.
I'll accept Harry Osborn as Venom as a antagonist and final boss for this game, but if they make a Venom solo game, I seriously think either Eddie Brock or Flash Thompson should become his next host, I think Venoms own should star someone who actually was Venom host in the comics.
Agreed
Agreed but that’s not gonna happen. It wouldn’t make sense continuity-wise for their universe and they’ve already made their decision of keeping Harry in there
@hotarot2700 Just because Harry Osborn is still alive does not mean he's going to be Venom anymore, especially since him coming out of that coma would ruin Norman Osborns motivation for going after Spider-Man. I also doubt Harry will want anything to do with the Symbiote after the Hell put him and his friends through, also the leaked title is called Lethal Protector implying Venom will be killing criminals, I can't picture Harry killing criminals on his own free will.
@@robertkenny1201 thank! You! that’s what I’ve been saying this whole time. people don’t understand that harry staying bonded to the symbiote would completely undermine Norman’s story going forward after that scene. without that, he has no reason to go through with hunting down Peter and miles. Harry would be okay, and that’s all that would matter in the end. no G serum, green goblin period. plus does anyone think Harry would be okay with killing or eating bad guys? especially after how he reacted to when he killed kraven? I don’t and it doesn’t make sense going forward. hell even the doctor said the chances of him coming out of his coma is slim.
@latonbradford6622 So I guess the chances of Eddie Brock being introduced into this universe and becoming next host isn't so unlikely after all.
31:50
Never heard this dialogue before.
Thank you for showcasing part of my episode of the podcast
4:14
Peter literally got bird poop on his suit 😂
Dude you did an amazing job in this video, you should be hired for future insomniac spider man games because thanks to you I learned more about the symbotie
The ONLY criticism I really have, is that we didn't get to see the typical aspect of Venom sort of haunting Pete. Everything else, perfect 🤌.
Great work on the video! This must have been an absurd amount of work and really quite mentally straining. 👏🏼
Harry walked straight into Aunt May's house and sat across from MJ just chillin. If that's not haunting Peter, I dunno what is
@zacharybosley1935 That's Harry. I do agree though, I liked the tension that gave.
I mean like in the 90s cartoon, spectacular series etc, where he'd show up randomly round the city. Not quite sure how you'd do that in a game though anyway. I'm very very happy with what we got but if I has to give any criticism, that would be it
Would’ve been cool they did something similar to the Man Bat jumpscare(s) from Arkham Knight where Venom randomly attacks you while you’re swinging. Not sure if it would work better as a mini boss fight, a QTE, or Venom just leaving after scaring you, but there are options to make it work
I personally wasn’t a big fan of Venom in the game but I love these sorts discussion videos, I’d love more in the future :)
Great video essay
My theory is that Symbiote was in coma at first, but it woke up after Harry went full rage, when he saw peter getting stabbed by Kraven. It chose peter to bring all that rage that he's been hidden all this time to consume to become stronger.
Eventually Venom became complete when it went back to Harry with this rage, who deep down wanted revenge towards kraven and the hunters for what they did to EMF, which was his biggest dream and Peter too for betraying him after saving his life.
This video deserves way more
I actually like this venom abit more than the normal one. Because he doesn't actually want to hurt anyone(other than Kraven and Miles)because in his mind,what he is doing is right. It was definitely a risk for them to make Harry venom but I think it was a risk that paid off because the story of the game was better for it. It also wouldn't make sense for anyone else to be Venom. Harry's story makes perfect sense to me. This was a great video👍
This breakdown is going to be awesome. 😃😃
Yup
Would have been cool if there was a mission with Miles and Harry as agent venom on where they actually get to know each other. Maybe even after the mission they get pizza or something and there we get them bonding over their shared losses.
After replaying the game 5th time i understand venoms part in the game and his motivations best venom iteration
Hey, I'm a fan or your channel. How you doing?
@@Shahriyararin63 Great
@@PhoenixPlayz636 mee too
Same this my favorite Venom cuz he’s a Villain not a goofy clown
@@DarkLord-hl1fihe's a character, not a goofy ah alien goo, who creates apocalypse
great analysis
this is a different take on the character, but points well made
Personally, I’m still bumped out the fact that they didn’t give venom web shooters and things of that nature but yes, in the game even in the miles boss fight they could’ve had more interactions as you said in the video. Overall, I still think this character has more potential to be fleshed out even more.
great job man on this awesome video with venom in Spiderman 2.
Just finished replaying the game and while I love this version of Venom, the third act definitely feels a bit rushed, especially after doing all the side missions beforehand. Do you think it's possible that we could get a dlc expansion for the third act, akin the Assassin's Creed 2 expansion?
AC2's expansion extended the ending or added more context?
I absolutely loved this video only thing I hate is Sony for rushing Insomniac into them scrambling the 3rd act thats why it feels rushed I feel as though maybe if the game was delayed to summer or fall of 2024 the 3rd act would've been just as long if not longer than act 2 which is needed for Venom
Great vid broski….hella underrated
Happy that the end of this video kind of pounts out the all around theme of sm2 which is death/loss
To be honest I like this version of Venom in Spider-Man 2. Instead of just being motivated to kill Peter it takes a page out of Web of shadows to take over the world and we see in a few scenes of how it tries to take over Miles and MJ. It’s also a nice touch that they added Scream because it would show the full potential of the symbiote rather than just making copies of itself. It’s not a perfect story but I like how Insomniac explores the effect it can bring to the other characters when they get involved. It’s like they thought what would happen if Eddie never got the symbiote.
I hope you keep updating on venom content as well as go over old venom comic , cartoon , and games 🤝🏾💯
Spectacular video Evan your breakdown of venom was amazing
Awesome video!! 👍👍👍👍
Now we need a lore video about Anti-Venom.😊
I agree with your breakdown but I also personally feel that there was an element of stress at play here with how MJ, Pete and even Harry/The Symbiote just aired out their dirty laundry in a fight and it was part of them breaking free from the symbiotes hold on them. I could just be looking way too deep into it but I think back to how Pete and Harry were feeling energized and upbeat. But the relentless force of Kraven brought out the animal in them both and kinda corrupted the symbiote in a way.
Loved it. Cant wait to see what the Future holds for Venom in the Solo Spinoff Game
Yeah well I think Flash Thompson or Eddie Brock shpuld he his host this time.
I personally really like this version of Venom.
Spectacular Spider-Man needs a third season.
I could be wrong about this but I think Peter will give the Anti-Venom suit to Harry in the third game.
Amazing video Evan keep it up.
I guess venom had the last roar in the end
You are SERIOUSLY misunderstanding the symbiote in this game. Did we watch the same opening cutscene? The suit gives him a sadistic nightmare telling Harry he will NEVER be free.
He talks about hearing from his mother as he slept in his treatment container. It gave him the idea for the Emily May foundation. We then see the suit play off the ideas that it put itself inside Harry’s head when convincing him to agree to the plan to spread more symbiotes across the planet.
It immediately on contact tried to take Connor’s arm. It is evil. It gaslights everyone into believing it is Harry in the driver seat, but we are constantly shown after the Kraven fight, Harry is just a puppet and a battery.
Pay attention to dialogue please.
I didn't hear the suit speak in that opening cut scene. Did I miss something? I'm genuinely curious. When I played this game the other three times before the big update came out, I used headphones. This time I didn't use headphones and after the agent venom mission When the Symbiote reaches for Peter again you hear Tony Todd's voice in the controller say, "Peter" and that scared the shit out of me! Is it something like that where I should not use headphones during the opening scene?
@@Motherofdragons4780 He means as Norman is making contact with Harry and letting it bond with him Norman says “I’ll never let you go” and Harry starts screaming it’s the symbiote pretty much directly talking to him through Norman in a nightmare it induced Harry with telling him it’s not gonna let go of him
@@Sully.. oh wow! I didn't know that, I just assumed it was showing when Norman put Harry in that tank and attached the Symbiote to him! That's interesting!
@@Motherofdragons4780 I thought that too on my first play though lmao I thought what a weird and seemingly painful thing to do in the potentially last time he would interact with his kid then when Harry mentioned he had awful nightmares I put it together and realized that the symbiote was still isolated and floating in the tank while it was on Norman and Harry I also thought dang he kinda just passed on the suit pretty easily that’s odd then the realization happened lol
Yeah that opening cutscene isn’t clear that it’s the symbiote posing as his dad and with the imagery of the pod shutting closed, and considering the fact even at the end of the game, and hell, throughout before even the first game with Harry’s mother which caused his experiments on Martin Lee, I personally took that opening scene (and assume most people did) as Norman’s inability to let his loved ones go. He’s clearly not over his wife’s death and has kept his son in a pod for years, being treated on by a massive hail mary of something he doesn’t even fully understand, I definitely buy that Harry is having a nightmare about his dad keeping him on life support with extreme experiments because he cannot just let his family go. Ffs at the end of the game, he called someone asking for the G-Serum because the symbiote is gone and his son is again terminal.
Going even further, if we do take Dr. Connor’s incident as a malicious attack by the symbiote and not a reasonable panic attack by a scientist being grabbed by an completely unfamiliar alien that’s trying to bond with him, Norman taking this alien that supposedly attacked the first person it came into contact with and using it to TREAT HIS SON FOR YEARS is further confirmation that Norman is not someone to let his son go because that is an extreme measure to take when your son is dying and you own the biggest biotech company in New York. Norman is characterized by not letting go of his son after being traumatized by his wife passing and seeing how extreme he is with this (Martin Lee, Devils Breath, potentially dangerous alien creature), I wouldn’t put it past Harry feeling suffocated by his dad’s inability to let his family go.
Now granted I understand that throughout Spider-Man 2, Harry is happy to be alive and out of the pod, I’m not saying he wanted to die but we don’t know how he got in that pod. We don’t know if Harry knew what happened with Connors or if he knew about Lee. If he did and even if he didn’t, because the pod was clearly one of the most extreme risks Norman would’ve made to keep Harry alive, Harry could’ve felt hopeless and might’ve given up on himself but wasn’t allowed to give up because his dad would not let him go. Really think about it for a second. How many attempts, how many doctors, how much advanced science and how much resources would Norman have already tried on Harry to cure him before putting his son in a pod with an alien? How many times has Harry seen failure after failure after failure after his mother already died from the same illness?? How much hope can a dude have when all fails and everything basically says you’re incurable? Norman refuses to give up because he can’t lose another loved one. He will never let his son go as long as he can still have him. I really think this is far more accurate to the nightmare scene than the symbote because if it was the symbiote making those dreams happen, wouldn’t he mention it to Dr. Connors upon release? Or mention it to Peter when they he finds out about the suit? He seems completely fine wearing the symbiote throughout the game so I don’t see your claim holding up, oppose the constant reminder that Norman is obsessed with keeping his son alive throughout both games.
I think you’re honestly hyper focusing on the symbiote and the idea of it being evil without considering Norman’s character in context to the nightmare and the extremely human reaction to having alien goo cling to your arm. Like seriously dude, people freak out if a commonly known creature crawls on them, let alone an alien. Connors is a biologist. He is more aware of the possibility of becoming infected with a virus or a parasite and considering the alien life-form was a slimy thing, yeah I wouldn’t want whatever that is to infect my bloodstream either so I’d probably cut my arm off too to prevent whatever it can do to me, become permanently effective across my body. It’s stupid that he reached out with a bare had but that’s besides the point because we’re discussing it potentially having harmed Connors or if he just freaked out about it grabbing him when he did willingly touch it.
So glad you brought up how this game isn’t the only one where the symbiotie is evil. So many people especially on twitter seem to think that’s the case, and while I love spectacular SM they ignore that part of the show where it’s also just typical evil alien.
The thing is they WERE going to make Venom more of an anti-hero for the third season so that’s why it gets a little pass
It's not that he's evil that's the problem, it's the fact that venom MAJOR CHARACTER TRAIT IS TO HATE AND DESPISE SPIDERMAN. which is completely missing from this game. That's why his name is venom, it's to symbolize that he is Peter's poison. And with the fact that the symbiote and Harry aren't even in unison he's not venom. U can like this character all u want but he's not venom
This breakdown is gonna be very dope. To me, Insomniac's interpretation of Venom even though it's Harry is like a combination of Eddie Brock/Venom from Unlimited (plans to take over the world with symbiotes) and Spectacular (personal connection to Peter Parker and motivation of rejection)
He never said anything about Peter rejecting him
@@Symbiotespiderman215 I mean Peter rejecting the symbiote.
Nah this venom is very very different. It’s nothing like the comics. Tbh this story is basically Harry osborn’s green goblin arc but done with venom. Which is not a bad idea. I find this venom pretty scary tbh, because he holds this dying man captive and he wants to use him to spread his race. He doesn’t want to let go, neither the dying man can let go cause it’s the only thing keeping him alive. Spider-Man 2’s story is like a horror movie. Their friendship is so innocent and beautiful. Then symbiote comes in their life, and breaks them apart. Then after Peter got rid of it, it went after Harry and refusing to let go, while Peter is desperate to save him.
@@thespider8654it's great
@@Symbiotespiderman215he did
I have yet to watch the whole Analysis and don't hate me for this but I watched the conclusion to find out what your real thoughts were. After watching that part I'm not only looking forward to watching your Deep Dive into Insom's Venom and you have given me a new appreciation for this take on Venom and this game.
I'm currantly playing NG+ for the first time and I. AM. LOVING. IT! I know many people including yourself Evan think the game isn't perfect or not as good as the previous games but the new update just made it all the much better and everytime I replay MARVEL'S SPIDER-MAN 2 I love it even more for it's craftsmanship in how it surpasses the previous games down the Side Content, Gameplay, Graphics, Sound Design, Animation, Voice Acting and especially the part most people have a problem with The Story!
I know everyone is entitled to their own opinions but I think the whole story, especially in it's Third Act is a LOT better than what a lot of people give the game credit for. Just sayin.
Venom is one of my top favorite comic characters ever, but TBH I've never really been the biggest fan when Harry was the host. However, this game has changed my opinion on that.
This Venom was a BEAST and a true Avengers Level Threat. Both he and Kraven made Marvel's Spider-Man 2 my favorite game of 2023.
Just an excellent all around video man. Great, great job!!!
For me Venom never really cared about Harry for this reason: While he did do some heroic actions when he was bonded with Harry, his was likely done just to hide his alien nature since he was disguising himself as an exo-suit. It is also explicitly stated by Connors that the tank that Harry was in also subdued him, meaning Venom was also too weak to resist Harry's decisions, but after joining with Peter, he became strong enough to start enacting a hold on his hosts. He also attempted to bond with Peter Parker/Spider-Man whenever the two got into close contact with each other and forcibly refused to re-bond to Harry after succeeding in doing so. He also influenced Peter into not wanting to give him back, showing that Venom never really cared for Harry to begin with and only re-bonded with him since he had no other options. This is even emphasized by Connors, who notes that the symbiote chose Peter and left Harry on his own accord rather than Harry giving it to him voluntarily, showing that Venom only sees Harry as a pawn.
I hope you keep the anti-venom suit and appreciate it and include more abilities and skills in the third part of Spider-Man.
You did really well man, truly you did. Though I do have one and a half critiques if you don’t mind me saying.
For one, easy suggestion and this isn’t a huge deal but I find it kinda off when listening to a long video from you and you’re using your IGN news voice inflections. Like c’mon man, you don’t always have to have that voice in every video. It works well with news stuff I guess but it just feels weird in a long breakdown like this one for me.
Second-ish thing, this is even a lesser deal but while I loved how you talked about Harry and Venom both feeling rejected by Peter, I feel you didn’t go into that as much as I would’ve because honestly, this concept of Venom is my current favorite ever because with Eddie, all they share is a hatred for Spider-Man and that’s about it. Take literally any other villain like Green Goblin, Kingpin, Otto Octavious, Scorpion, literally any other Spider-Man villain and they would work equally well bonded to the symbiote as Eddie Brock. Now for Harry, they not only hate Peter together but they hate him for a shared reason as you said, they both feel rejected by Peter. I just wish you went a little further in explaining that they were also both left to die by Peter from their mutual perspectives. Harry (reasonably considering how many failures probably has Norman had with curing his son before the tank) doesn’t see any other way he can survive than the symbiote and speaking of, Peter literally went to Connors with the explicit intent to destroying the alien. Both the symbiote and Harry saw Peter as a friend they loved but both were essentially left to die by that friend which I think is a much deeper bond than Eddie ever had. While I always liked Venom, I never really cared for Eddie the same way because as I said, the only thing tied them together was a standard shared hatred that a dozen other characters already had so what made Eddie so special? So yeah, just wish you went a little more into this symbiotic bonding between these two but it’s not too big of a deal.
I would like to mention one more small thing about Harry and Venom’s connection being narratively stronger than Eddie and that’s how they got bonded in the first place. Eddie is a reporter which sure, means that he goes places that can be dangerous and have extreme stuff going on so he does have more of a chance running into an alien entity. But you know who has far more of a chance running into an alien creature? Norman Osborne. The CEO of the biggest biotech company in New York. He has hundreds of scientists, researchers and labs all over the place. His reach with all those scientists and all his tech that probably includes satellites and seismic radars would definitely make him one of the first people possible to claim possession of an alien that landed in New York via asteroid. And yes, I’m glossing over the fact Peter usually finds the alien first and Eddie gets it from him (even though Norman likes to keep tabs on Spider-Man and probably could easily snag the symbiote for himself at the first opportunity), but honestly, how likely is Eddie to randomly be at the right place at the right time to get the symbiote from Peter, oppose to literally any other New Yorker? So anyways I think it’s another great, reasonable, narrative connection between Harry and the symbiote that Eddie unfortunately lacks. I’m probably gunna make a video talking about this whenever I’m out of my depressive rut but these things make Harry my personal favorite host for Venom because he feels so much more tied to the symbiote than Eddie or literally anyone else had and I honestly wish more people took their interpretation with an open mind without reflexively clinging to the status quo. Like people still hate this version of Venom simply because it’s not Eddie and I know it’s controversial to say but maybe, just maybe, a character that has existed for decades, might function better as a revamped concept. I personally think if people put down their pitchforks and Venom comics and actually thought about this new Venom, I think potentially this could be the new status quo. And yeah, maybe that means Eddie wouldn’t really exist anymore. Maybe he’d only be used as an adult supplement for Flash Thomson, being a bully for Peter in the office. But I just think the Venom concept works better for Harry than Eddie because of all the reasons I said here. I could even go further in saying Harry doesn’t usually have anything going with him other than being Peter’s friend and giving Peter a personal connection to the Green Goblin. But I’ve been rambling a lot already so, thanks for reading if you still are. Please share your thoughts in the replies and take my comment about the voice into consideration man. It’s not annoying, just feels weird ya’know?
I'm finally watching it. Early in the video but this is great. Nice work!!!
Woah, this is a feature-length film!
so exicted for this video. my goat ik you cooking.
Yup
28:36 Where did this audio clip come from? I would love to hear the rest of it?
I think there is some truth to what you’re saying, HOWEVER:
We did not need to go through this many leaps for Doc Ock nor Phin for character motivation and direction. I think Venom in this game is just alright. He’s not great or bad, just meh. Great analysis though, even if I think some of the reasoning can be a bit headcanon-ish
Ock & the Tinkerer have a pretty significant advantage over the symbiote, in the sense that they can straight-up tell people what they're thinking and feeling. The Symbiote can only communicate through Venom.
Good story-telling is not needing the characters to outright tell you how they are feeling. As an audience member, you should be able to tell what they are feeling based off of their actions. @@zacharybosley1935
I don't know why people hate this venom, or even Harry being Venom. Honestly, he's one of my favorite Venom adaptations. It was freaking cool playing as Venom as well and the way his character is was perfect. The symbiote isn't a monster or anything like that but it amplifies what the host feels and twists them.
We'll I fail to see how replacing Eddie Brock with Harry Osborn as Venom makes him anymore interesting.
32:39 Actually, I think that we will later find out (in either DLC or the next game) that Norman was bonded with the symbiote before Harry. In the scene where Harry first gets the symbiote, we see it crawl from Norman's body to Harry's body. At this moment, I think they're showing us that Norman had at least a small bond with the symbiote. There could be a little bit of foreshadowing in this scene.
It's just a dream, bro
I like when there is no reconciling the relationship between venom and Spider-Man. He hates Peters too much. It makes for a more compelling conflict. Harry and Peter would still be best pals if it wasn’t for the Symbiote controlling him. There needed to be some falling out between them to create more of a conflict and drama. Think spectacular Spider-Man. Eddie and Peters relationship is so much more compelling because Eddie started out as Peters closest friend before they have a falling out to the point of where their friendship can’t be salvaged. It’s much more tragic that way. But with Harry he’s still his friend. There’s no damage done to their relationship.
Eddie Brock and Peter Parker we're never friends.
@@robertkenny1201 I’m aware, but insomniac was coming at it from them being friends angle so they should’ve took notes from spectacular Spider-Man.
@spider-jonah-man7148 Yeah we'll assuming this Venom solo game coming is something tells me it won't be Harry this time.
@@robertkenny1201 that will be stupid if they shove in another host like Eddie Brock. Him and Peter have no relationship. It would be like Tom hardy venom. Their probably better off keeping Harry, at least he has prior history with Spider-Man
@spider-jonah-man7148 It would be a middle finger for Venom fans everywhere to have Venoms own game star Harry instead of Eddie also Harry coming that coma would ruin Norman's motivation for going after Spider-Man, and I doubt Harry would want anything to do with Venom after the Hell it put him and his friends through. Also the leaked title is called Lethal Protector implying Venom will be killing criminals in it, and I can't picture Harry Osborn willingly killing criminals on his own free will. I'm sorry to break this to you, but Eddie Brock is more likely to be introduced to take up the mantle. They could easily introduce Eddie Brock build up as a character and give him a motivation to hate Spider-Man.
Does anyone prefer Insomniac Spiderman over the movies because I do.
I genuinely like the Insomniac game's story more than most Superhero shows or movies.
What part of the game does Kraven say “I’ve seen your true form. You are death in beast flesh”?
It's from the second phase of the Venom vs Kraven Boss. It's a line that only plays if the fight drags on long enough.
There's actually a lot of instances of cool dialogue like this only playing when fights drag for too long. It's not just for boss fights, but regular fights in certain missions too. It's like Insomniac expected us to take longer to beat enemies on average.
An example of dialogue I like but is kinda stuck behind this format is the dialogue from the gameplay reveal. Peter has a cool line where he says "If Kraven wants a hunt, I'll give him one he'll never forget! He's gonna wish he never came to New York!" It's still in the game, but it's actually hard to trigger because that fight both has to be dragged out for a really long time, and the Hunter who speaks that prompts Peter to respond also has to still be conscious.
I was planning on a similar idea
Now that you’ve done it
Lemme get my inspiration
Alright alright
That was brilliant, really enjoyed it
Was cool explained only if it was as it is in the game. The Symbiote is evil from the start, as you could see in the first scene when it grabs into Connors's arm.
Venom is something else,a character with angry and sadness but a amazing character venom is my favorite spiderman villan and character
“The neversoft portrayal of Venom from the PS1 is a 1:1 of how he acts in the comics”
No wonder that’s the best video game Venom we’ve ever gotten
Having this broken down for me makes me appreciate the game more but at the same time I wish we would have gotten more with venom. Maybe I would've not been as harsh
God tier video my man, good job!❤️
i really like venom in Spiderman 2 he's really awesome.
Amazing video
I wish they would give Venom more time in SpiderMan 2..
It's crazy you mention Knull, because this Venom encounters Knull in a recent comic and Knull threatens and states how lucky Venom is he hasn't visited there yet
This video was long before that comic to be fair.
Not even a given the comic will be canon to the game in the long run anyway, as Insomniac might decide to retcon things further with the supposed Venom game.
That breakdown was a work of art someone should share this with insomniac ! What a game what a breakdown ! 🔥
It was fun seeing all the newer symbiote lore and even the dragon wings get incorporated. My only issue was Harry's original suit. I love Agent Venom and that made me think we probably won't get Flash Thompson as a host ever
In fact, all I wanted from Marvel's Spider-Man 2 was a feature to switch between a regular suit and a symbiote suit with one button, but unfortunately this did not happen.
Evan i will admit i was not the biggest fan of this version's venom since I was so used to other interpretation of venom especially Eddie Brock. And to be fair the cover art of the game where the spider men jumped venom and the promotional trailer for SM2, set my expectation accordingly that we were gonna have a big brawl spanning across the city. I liked how u considered the symbiote as a character and like u said the main themes of venom are still there but its written in a different manner with Harry Osborne. Im just really bummed out that we didn't have a longer 3rd act for this game with the city covered in symbiote goo it just felt so short and the story missions during that act didn't live up to its potential which soured me even more, cause the first game third act felt so robust compared to this game third act.
This venom is just a downgraded version of spectacular venom he's got no personality, no relationship with harry and the suit and he's just a monster who wants to make everyone like him, just like web of shadows.