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Are You For Serious? Skip the Overlaps and Strap
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- Опубліковано 10 бер 2022
- Instead of overlapping and underlapping, we just strap our walls together. There are a few reasons for this. I can cut all 3 plates at the same time with the beam so so they are identical. Training new guys always leads to mistakes and a lost of production. Since we frame our exterior walls as big as possible and lift them in with the forklift, we don't notch the plates. This keeps the wall stiffer during lift. All our interiors get strapped to the exterior anyway. The IRC requires 3 nails at laps, and allows for strapping.
I use the CSHP strap from Simpson Strong-Tie because I can shoot it with a framing gun (full round head). A roll is $65 and will last more than 1 house. When I climb the ladder to nail top plates, I bring the strap with me.
I lose the time in cutting the straps (maybe 5 minutes/house), but I can significant time by cutting the identical plates. On top of that, no mistakes.
Some will say overlapping is "the right way" and it certainly is the traditional method and works great. Since we basically panelize onsite, we've adapted accordingly.
www.strongtie.com/coiledstrap...
up.codes/viewer/washington/wa...
In Australia we have done similar to this for about 30 years , occasionally I’ll still do a half scarf lap joint but not often
We use a gang nail plate . It’s about 3” x 5” with heaps of spikes that get hammered in .I go one step further tho and sink a nail in o each frame through the plate
This man is literally cutting corners……. And strapping them together
😂😂😂
but is actually a great idea
He'd never make it at Wendy's. They don't cut corners.
Strapping top plate intersections is acceptable in the International Residential Code.
@@bbqpitmaster1324 what's the alternative to this?
"Can't do it. And I know cuz I've never tried it" 😂😂
😂🤣😂Yes!!
Beat me to it.
Next short better be trying it! The supplies are there to fix it if it fails, right? ha
We’ve all worked with a guy like this before. He’s smug and in love with himself but also unfortunately right and worth listening to
But you had imagined it so..
Builder-framer-remodeler-general contractor- my vote is for the overlaps.
Absolutely. A strap is only strong in tension. Solid lumber is much stronger in compression, shear, bending, and torsional loads. By using a strap those connections don't add anything strength unless they are in tension.
Test it bud
@@bobbygetsbanned6049: The guy that made this video doesn’t understand anything about what you are talking about. You are totally right. He is only thinking about tension and he doesn’t understand everything else going on. Very very bad what he did.
It's for sure weaker. I also know because I've never tried it
Fer sher. It's science
This guy gets it
Fax
Metal straps only hold it in one direction. Interlocking plates hold the wall in place from 3 directions.
Hit the top of that wall with a sledgehammer and see if it moves. Now overlap the 2×4's and see if you can move it. Here's ur sign...
You give me a sledge hammer I'll take a whole house down .
Overlapped or not.
@@bigboreracing356 doubt it. Ain't no wittle fella here, buckshot. And I don't get your point. Don't burn your house down man.
@@bigboreracing356 get back to your stretching soy boy.
@@bigboreracing356never insecure in this body sculpted by angels lil man, just letting you know, I'll bet my house that I'm not about to burn down , that I am at least 4 times your size. Bucko buckerton
Reason for top plate is to lock the walls together, your walls are weaker and not locked in.
"Locked in."
Nailed it.
(Straps across would help more. ... with laps.)
No laps not as strong, but strong .. they need brackets with only straps.. because......... "lock in"
I just like the idea that Inspector Snoop Dog comes rolling up on the job site for an inspection, “Now what’s all this shizzle, my nizzle?”
Inspectah snoop in da house!!!!😂🤣🤣
You just used a replacment word for the n-word, which is racism. You are hereby canceled!
I Lmao! Thanks James
@@southernstar4353
For shizzle my nizzle!
@@southernstar4353 shut up mah nizzle
When you overlap less likely to twist as lumber dries out
This is the comment I came for
As an hvac new home installer, for all my framer bros out there please nail top plates to joists thank you❤️
I’ll keep overlapping top plate. I can add and subtract.
Seriously
Exactly
Fr
Not hard , if you're a carpenter, this should take next to no time to figure out
Yeppers. Love that math.
Mehhhh overlapping top plates is better. Locking one top plate into the other is more lateral strength than that strap can give.
Yep, lapping the top plates creates one monolithic unit. I don’t think these straps are necessarily a lesser method. However I’ve always understood metal strapping as a redundancy protection in stick framing as opposed to a replacement for correct cuts/joints/corners/T’s/laps etc. No structure is natural disaster proof.
Overlapping for sure. That strapping is thick enough to throw numbers off for rafter cuts
@@southsidebaynuts, just pretend it's not even there, gonna be fine. It's not goin' nowheres.
@@southsidebaynuts you only need one number or maybe two to cut the whole roof anyway so just don’t hook the straps w your tape. Or subtract a sixteenth/eigth
@@robr601
Or be smart enough to just do overlaps which have always been done, is a better system and had absolutely zero flaws. Anybody that can't be trained to figure out overlaps needs to learn to sweep floors...
The weight of a house, under a snow load or heavy wind, slightly more stress than the test you didn’t do.
"Because we're too lazy to add or subtract 3.5 inches"
Or too inept lol.....rookies
But what if it's a 2x6 wall
@@bradleysmith2530 then add 5.5 or whatever the width is lol
Haha
Not lazy, efficient.
Raising a generation of framers who don't know how to correctly frame a house...
Sad isn't it? And they still complain they don't get paid enough!
Yeah, our dystopian carpenters are gonna wonder where all the straps are
Ok boomer
This is fine, not how I was taught but I’m sure it works just as well
@@bobbygetsbanned6049Lick that boot. You can bury your head in the sand. That won’t make consumer goods any less expensive or make wages any higher.
You clearly lack the understanding of how loads get transfered between structural members if you think this is as strong as an overlap. Those straps only work in tension. They don't provide structural integrity in any other direction. An overlap does. You can prove it to yourself very easily. Take a sledge hammer and smash the corner of that wall 90 degrees to that strap. Do the same with a traditional overlap...then come back and tell me again which is stronger.
Couldn’t have said it better , it’s just someone justifying not knowing what they are doing
This should be a highlighted comment! As well as someone else mentioned sheet rock cracking around doorways.
Take a sledgehammer and smash a 2x on the flat and tell me we shouldn't be using steel flanged beams for our compressive loads instead of top plates.
I mean, sure, you're making an argument, but it's one that's using an outlandishly excessive example to prove a point.
Walls are being nailed to perpendicular walls all along the length of the abutting studs before you even get to the top plates, so if you're skipping that and are so reliant on the connection between the top plates, you're going to use a beefier steel plate (which the engineer would have spec'd, like a Simpson Tie Plate).
But even that doesn't make any sense. Look at metal stud partitions, like in commercial or Southern Florida construction. Often the walls are held off so drywall can fully cover each side of each wall, and they still get screwed together where they intersect.
In fact that's often done when the walls are held off the exterior 3/4" to use the drywall as the air barrier layer to just run continuous past the interior partitions in normal wood construction.
I doubt in many instances people are taking running leaps at walls. Kids, maybe, and spastic pets, but they're putting holes in drywall before they're moving walls.
@@ABZD019 My comment was in response to the guy in the video saying his metal strap joint is not weaker than a solid wood overlap. I didn't say it wasn't adequate for internal partition walls. I'm saying that his claim saying it's just as strong is false. That thin metal strap is weaker in all directions except tension. My suggested sledge hammer test will prove it. The top corner of the wall will twist and bend that thin strap with a sufficient hit while a solid wood overlap will not move.
If that metal strap was 3/16" or 1/4" thick I wouldn't have said anything.
@@internettoughguy
Tension is one of the forces that acts in shear. If you whack that wall in that corner you are putting tension on the strap on the side you're whacking, and compression on the other. That's why coil straps are also used in resisting shear overturning as well as uplift forces.
If that strap only worked in uniform and immediate tension parallel to its length, they'd be useless even in resisting uplift unless you strapped 4 sides of everything, because the real world is 3D.
Just take the time and do it the old school way and overlap your top plates . I framed for 25 years and always followed the way I was taught by old school framers . I never get my balls busted by building inspectors as everything looks as it should with no excessive hardware hanging out. Solid work just not the way I would do it .
Monday rolls around and my hungover butt keeps messing up top plates.... We just end up plating after all walls are up. This might be faster
That's the American spirit!
Do it the same way it's always been done regardless of what comes around.
Just because it's the old school way doesn't make it right, comma I hate the argument the older way is better it's better and somehow the newer more advanced way is worse
this is why old houses are still standing, while new ones fall apart the first storm.
@@erikzorger3311 Thank you . Old school Manufacturing use to be metal ,wood etc now everything is made of plastic . I mean come on it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand that stuff nowadays is junk and made to break so you buy it again
Anyone who says "We never make mistakes" is a liar
They never make mistakes on underlaps and overlaps bc they never use them.
This is better and quicker, you added another step to the process. I’ll stick to the old way
over in NZ and i think Aus is the same. we mainly stand the frames with a single top plate, as we plumb/straighten walls we use gang nail plate. then come over with the 2nd top plate, usually overlapping. its not required though, we are fully allowed to stand with 2 plates already on then nail plate like this
And Dr Dre is at the door!! C’mon bro!!
I always forget that part of the lyrics 😂😂
"For those of you who have to train new people"
Just cut corners to certail to their generation of incompetence, straps suck.
Ah
The entire framing methodology for the last 70 years has been designed for cutting corners and saving money.
Don't take yourself so seriously bud. Modern framing is just stick houses. Using straps instead of overlaps is going to make very little difference.
@@definitelynotcole In other words. "We've been cutting corners for 70 years to squeeze profits, whats one more gonna hurt?"
@@jamesbaker3153 all I'm saying is metal straps are not going to be the point of failure in this building system.
Besides looking at this guy's work I'd take him over 90% of the framers I've worked with on-site. Half these jacka***s whining on the internet are probably in that 90%.
@@jamesbaker3153 go back to handsaws and hand driven nails, no one is stopping you
Im gonna call bs. It is weaker. Its not about if I can yank the walls down. If you cant UNDERSTAND why overlapping is stronger then you should NOT be framing homes. Sorry but you are dead wrong.
Metal is stronger soft woods. You're wrong
@@NickOvchinnikov youre statement is dumb and out of context. The over lap gives it stability. The strap is just a strap. Good luck with all your halfassed work.
P.s. you are wrong wrong wrong
@@NickOvchinnikov metal is stronger on a pound for pound basis but we’re talking about torsion strength. Those metal straps cannot be the same thing as a full length of 2x4 overlapped. Also, wood and metal expand and retract differently.
@@NickOvchinnikov metal is not stronger than wood I can snip it with a hit if the claw hammer claw until you get into 1/4” steel
@@Grggeorge what world do you live in where wood is stronger than metal? Go and hit a piece of timber the same size with your hammer and see how well it stands up. Saying that it is weak because you can break the metal by hitting it with a sharp object is stupid. I could cut the whole wall down with a few swings of an axe. It doesn't mean that the wall won't hold up for what it's designed to do.
So you people are saying there is an alternative way and that this guy is wrong?
Is this something he decided himself outside of regulations?
Is he making his own way?
There are reasons for regulations!
First of all I never understood lapping anyway except for interior perpendicular exterior wall connections, usually after the roof or second floor joists are put on and is basically ready to be punched out you nail the walls to the bottom cord of the trusses or bottom of the second floor joist that should hold it plumb till it gets rocked the drywall is what gives the wall it's rack strength. Besides a typical perpendicular wall connection or corner is going to have a drywall backing nailer that's going to connect the two walls together with nails and give it just as much strength until it gets drywalled.
"And I know because I've never tried it"
Basically every single teenager ever.... LoL
Between the pullout and shear of 16 nails, even if they're not ring shank, and the strength of that flimsy-LOOKING 20 gauge strap, that wall isn't going anywhere.
Has your engineer looked at a single LVL/LSL/PSL, or good plain ol' 2x6 top plate for the exterior walls so that you can run single top plates on the interiors? If the sheathing is overlapping either up onto the second floor or over the blocking between overhangs, even in a high seismic zone that should allow plenty of nailing area to substitute against the second top plate.
And as far as drywall cracking.....what? Vibration frequency would have to be nuts in order to pop drywall screws and fracture the paper facing. And how do you reduce vibration in the first place? Separate elements. So a strap would allow a lot less vibrational force than a beefier sized 1 1/2" x 3 1/2" lapped splice. And the biggest issue isn't vibration, it's wood expanding and contracting in greater amounts than the drywall, so the less wood you can screw to the better, and again a little strap would allow a shorter top plate which allows for a smaller amount of movement in the wood.
Nothing wrong with overlapping plates. Wood good. Nothing wrong with straps. Steel good.
But to those who think steel strapping is inadequate, or somehow lesser, think about this. We're not driving wooden dowels through our sheathing to put our houses together like it's timber framing. We're not using 1x8 diagonal sheathing anymore. We're using nails and adhesively bonded panel sheets. Things evolve, and this is just another newer way of doing something the right way. Doesn't mean your way is wrong.
You're completely right. The blind adherence to some of these methods is borderline dogmatic.
In 10 years, code will require no strap.
3 words. Expansion and contraction.
It's not just about being yanked apart, it's also about how much structural rigidity and vibration your walls have. I have a feeling a wall like this is going to have drywall cracks all over the place.
Nope been doing it for 15 years 👍👍
@@AwesomeFramers can you link what the product is? Also I was under the impression the whole point of the second top plate was for overlapping and when point load layout is changed (16oc walls to 24 oc roof). I have seen framed a 24 oc single top plate, but they had to let in pretty hefty Simpson plates. I think they were 1/4" thick, and used 0.148x1.5" nails
@@griznatle Simpson strongtie, can't quite tell but maybe the coiled strap cshp18?
No you won't - there are a bunch of other components securing the connection. It does not rely on lapping plates. The corner itself, the ceiling joists or finger blocks, etc. This research is exhaustive over many decades. Look it up.
@@griznatle www.strongtie.com/coiledstraps_specialtystraps/cshp_strap/p/cshp
Chapter 6 in the link in the description shows the gauge "tie plate" for single top plate connections. It's not beefy at all 👍
I can confirm this, I put 4 nail in a board and Snoop Dogg did indeed show up at my door
Certainly not a shortage of Tools on that job site!!😂
Check your facts: I thoroughly reviewed the framing section of the IR Code book and it never mentioned Snoop Dog once!
The reason we do it this way is because we're not smart enough to do it the right way 😂
It is absolutely never a waste of time to teach somebody who is just learning, the right way to do something. It's not a waste of time, it's an investment in their future as well as yours. I'm incredibly grateful for the people who have taken the time to teach me the correct way to do things along the way, and I'm astounded you would even say something like that.
It’s not that hard to add 3-1/2” or to train people. You keep doing it your way, I’ll keep doing it mine
It’s about quality control. If you have experienced guys across the board, then you’re considered lucky these days.
Been raining on that job
If it's good enough for the inspection... what about elevation at the joint? Ever have any issues there?
Did this for a recent build in Oregon and the inspector didn’t even quesiton it one bit!! 👌👌 send it brother!!
To be fair that dont mean much. Code is the like bare minimum.
What county? I know the code book here in Oregon requires a double top plate locking in as it’s code for lateral movement.
Nobody does their job right in Oregon. Least of all people working for the government.
'and I know because I've never tried it'. I burst out laughing. Very nice.
Next time he will be using gorilla glue “ the strongest glue on earth “lmao!!!! 🤣😂🤣😂
Good luck with that Wet decking!!!
I know most of the force acting on walls comes from above and not from the sides but wood-on-wood gives me a sense of comfort that a strap-on simply cannot. That sounded wrong.
What area do you build in? And are your walls standard heights? Meaning interior height is same as exterior height? I’m building in Kitsap County Wa.
Overlaps/log cabin or go home
The electrician will love you when he has to drill holes on the center for wires
Saving money on framing man labor only to fork out more for the elechickens
I guess they will have to run in next to the strap and through a stud . I don't think that's against any code.. maybe a little bit extra length of wire
That's not really a place for Sparky to be drilling anyways.
@@josephdestaubin7426 how do you figure. Wires run up studs through top plate. Been in many new builds. Run wires up the stud through the top plate. Keep it tight straight up.
@@ronaldoleksy8264 On a corner stud, that's unlikely and easily avoided.
Weekly homes in Houston use straps about like that with like 12 or 16 holes as just use single plate on 2x6 outside walls to roof gables etc. Also on 2x6 inside walls.
Framers usually only nail maybe 4 to 5 nails totals as hard for the inspector to see if he don't climb up there lol
I always overlap my top plates!
I'm a mechanical engineer.... It's same strength connection, but it's less rigid right out of the bat. So, if you want a wobbly house, this is the connection to use. It could be made much stronger and rigid by making the strap wider to separate the screws. Adding a perpendicular strap could also help. Nail only connections are also weak anyway. A 2x4 can hold thousands of pounds, but when fastened with nails, a small tilt will have your thousands of pounds quickly fold the structure. Anyway, without tests you can't really say for sure, but I sort of like them. I think it would make the house less prone to falling in an earthquake because of dampening.
So on the "Un-Appreciate" side, we have the "I'm scared of new or differnt things I haven't seen before" and on the "Appreciate" side you have all the smart people who practice critical thinking and quickly deduce that the channel is called "Awesome Framers" and we don't lie in the PNW
"We don't lie in the PNW" Dude I hope you don't mean the Pacific Northwest. Portland and Seattle? Jay Inslee alone, my god. And those junkies on every corner and in the woods behind half the houses? Just good honest salt of the earth types. Noones ever heard a shoeless methhead in a tutu tell a lie.
Claw on claw hammer can snip it in a couple swings and I’d yank it apart fast
A 1 inch piece of galvanized sheet metal with 4 closely nested fasteners. Is definitely not stronger laterally than a 3 1/2 board with 3 nails spread out and wedged into place with 2 other boards. You will have cracked sheetrock above the doors in no time. Think about it
Truth.
Why would it Crack above the doors?
@Mr Fingers I was looking at a door that was next to a corner at the junction where they used a strap. It will Crack in the corner of the room, especially with all the movement of a door right there.
You don't learn how to do foundations until you frame your own foundations and you don't learn how to frame until you drywall your own framing and you don't learn how to drywall until you mud your own work.
Yup done ✅ all this work for 20 years and your right
How long has this framing been exposed to the elements?
but if you overlap the top plates, it positively locks into the right position, and you benefits directly from the strength of the wood
Well I know what shear strength is and I bet I can pull that wall to the side way easier
So, without the straps, you'd have to make more cuts, to leave gaps for the top/bottom plates to overlap? And thats where you secure it? Am I understanding that right?
Essentially you don't have to make so many cuts and reduces errors from making so many cuts?
Where did you get you film camera 🎥?
I need one like yours .
I was framing custom homes in Dallas in the early '80s, 3 to 5000ft houses, overlapping the plates in the corners is just as strong.
This may have the same strength in terms of ripping apart, but I don’t think these straps will prevent those top plates from twisting and turning as they dry or shift.
I just can't believe you don't have a higher up brace on those second floor walls!
@@TheTrudell93 no, it's not a first floor wall. If you were a professional carpenter, you would know that that "ledger" is what we in the industry call a "skirt" for the "second floor".
Construction is also about production and profit..if u can stock cut a bunch of material to save time and money even if it's not as strong but strong enough to work than it's the way to go...over building when it's not necessary is dumb..and if for all the comments about making Walls sturdy u can just make sure the last stud in wall is fastened to a stud that runs in the wall running perpendicular to it...and if adding extra stud is issue than start your 16 stud from there
You guys rock
Waste of time! Everyone always looking for some stupid change to doing something when the original way is working. 😂
If it aint broke don't fix it
The shear strength of a steel 12-16 penny nail, whether hand nailed or put in with a gun, far out weights this 1/16" surface applied strap applied even with those same nails. A 1/16" x maybe 6" strap versus 1-1/2" x 3-1/2" of material for lateral load is why code says overlap your top plates.
That's untrue and very easy to check. Look up the ratings for the straps 👍👍
No way this is faster. And overlapping plates isn't hard to figure out. My guys have a harder time with partitions facing up or down. Never seen that strap before but will definitely look for it.
Thats a muscial way to remember it 😮
It may be stronger in tension, probably not for twisting though.
Nice! Love it!
I like it. What type strap are you using?
It was the Strong Toe CSHP but that's been discontinued. Try the TP37
I know cause I never tried it.
THAT'S HILARIOUS 😂
Question...if you aren't overlapping the top plate, what's the point of the double top plate? 🤔 seems like more work with straps than just figuring out how to use a tape measure.
I did production framing for apartment buildings for a few years and I don't recall EVER having a problem that required pulling nails or top (or bottom) plates.
Mostly all of your lateral strength is coming from the wall studs being nailed together from top to bottom at each partition to another or at each outside corner. Double top plating is mostly used to span between the 16” o.c stud spacing so the floor joists, roof trusses, etc don’t need to land directly above each stud..
Someone correct me if I’m wrong 🤷♂️
No still need to land with in 4" of studs if they don't you have to put a stud under them.
There's always more than one way to skin the cat The house will be standing for a long time Good job brother
If the nails a long enough this will be stronger for sure
It's his way , so it must be the only way... 😆
Why use nails instead of screws? Is it about time and cost effectiveness?
Wait till inspector Harry Hardon shows up
The man seems like he knows what he's doing. 📡👽🇺🇸 RUN!!! It's much better when you like your work you know when instead of being like forced to do stuff you don't like.any strapping is better look at the weather channel.
Takes 30 seconds to cut your double top plates after the wall is framed. Still faster and easier than using straps
Is the blocking in the wall on flat to accept the osb joint?
Do you use CSHP18 or CSHP20…
What gauge strap do you use?
I know when we have hurricanes here in Hawaii lapped walls are usually still there, can’t really tell if something was strapped cuz it’s just a big pile a pickup sticks or just gone, that’s also why smart home owner dq the roof strapping cuz it’s far better for the roof to go byby then the roof pull the whole house along with it when going byby wind speed hits
Hopefully where you are located at, that this method is allowed to tie together your double top plate
I love the snoop added in there
I use half inch bolts to fasten my top plates. 😀
Interior nonbearing walls sure, exterior or bearing walls... I’d pass.
Frame Construction by Rob Thallon(2000)[one of the best books on North American house construction] has a section about advanced framing which shows the details of 2x6 @ 24 " OC single top plates with metal brackets, wallboard clips, etc. The purpose is better insulation and using less wood. Structurally it is and has been up to code almost anywhere.
😂 totally agree with the "training new people"!!?!
🤣 come on bro, do a project farm style testing
Yes but it's another step your adding, I like to try and cut out steps.
Why do they allow the floors to get wet , I know it will but I still believe that wood holds moisture even when it dries..
Do you do this on exterior walls?
Just added cost and it's more time I believe. It's not rocket science to over lap top plates. If you have people working for you who have trouble with this. Probably need different people.
What about Mondays?
I'm gonna disagree with you buddy. Overlapping plates creates a form of rigidity you simply can't get from a metal strap. That might work for a cabin in the woods with a limited CO... It's not hurricane or gale force tough. I'll bet you $100 if you got a come along out, and put an eye lag in the corner of that top plate where it meets the other wall, it would tear that strap loose and drop that wall. A single overlap won't let that happen. You'll pull the eye lag out first.
You can wrap! Can snoop frame?
This will be a problem when you string line and straightened the walls and l'm sure if you are using 12d nails you will probably split the wood that close to the end of the board ! Im old school!!
If I'm not mistaken, 1/8" steel strapping has a shear strength of like 4 tons or something. It's been YEARS since I had my cheat sheet.
This is pretty strong.