The Ship of Theseus (Metaphysics of Identity)
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- Опубліковано 21 лис 2024
- Join George and John as they discuss and debate different Philosophical ideas, today they will be looking into the Ship of Theseus.
This is a very interesting thought experiment pondering upon the metaphysics of identity. What gives an object its identity? Consider the Ship of Theseus, a famous ship that has been on display in a museum for thousands of years, over time the ship has needed maintenance, repair and refurbishment. However after two thousand years in the museum we find that today all the original parts have been replaced with newer parts.
So is this still the same ship or a different ship altogether?
Watch the debate and discover the paradox.
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#shipoftheseus #metaphysics #philosophy
![The 'Ship of Theseus' Problem [Illustrated]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/iVlIZJTwgyQ/mqdefault.jpg)
![The 'Ship of Theseus' Problem [Illustrated]](/img/tr.png)
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This is going to get more views after that WandaVision finale
Agreed
I’m definitely here from Wandavision lol
That’s why I’m here :)
only reason i’m here
Hahahaaa... Here I am
Whose here because of the WandaVision finale !
Me
Me too
You got me 😂😂😂
Mere yaaa
Sup
anyone else sent here by Wanda Vision??
Same
Utilitarianism: So long as the ship of Theseus does what the ship of Theseus is supposed to do "sit in the museum, inspire awe etc) it remains the ship of Theseus regardless of its parts.
Social contract: If the public agrees that it is the ship of Theseus than it remains the ship of Theseus regardless of its parts. Unless the public changes its mind.
Aristotle: Materials are made up of their parts so replacing the parts makes it something different from the ship of Theseus.
Socrates: Theory of forms. If it has the fundamental form of the ship of Theseus it remains the same ship regardless of parts.
Legalism: The ship of Theseus is defined by the different interests and agreements that people have in it. The owner, the insurers, etc. The Ship of Theseus is defined according to their contracts and covenants as to what can be done with it and what actions would fundamentally change it.
Interesting but not a two word phrase I'm looking for.
You do know its about Christ if you change the person is it still him lol look at robocop what they did to him in a film its part of it Christ like
“Neither is the true ship. Both are the true ship.”
- White Vision
Superpositioning
They should both definitely be treated like the true ship tho.
My friend who’s been trying to get into philosophy has been constantly bringing this up every time I talk about philosophy so it’s cool that y’all have a vid on it
In regards to the ship of Theseus, identifying when it is a new ship is very challenging because we aren’t ale to invoke something likes Locke’s memory account, because obviously the ship doesn’t have the ability to remember anything. Intuitively, I think after all the planks are replaced I want to say it constitutes a new ship, but if I extend that to my own body, it becomes problematic. Thanks as always Philosophy Vibe!
As always you're welcome, glad you're still enjoying the videos :)
Ship of Theseus not (the ship of Theseus) but missing out
Life of Theseus
Parallel Lives
ua-cam.com/video/ldoh71uNZmk/v-deo.html
I would say if the ship contains over 50% of its original material, it’s still the same ship. As soon as the original parts constitute less than 50% of the ship, it ceases to be the original ship.
I mean I think an amount is still arbitrary, rather we should value importance, for example humans are considered alive with brain function, if you were to replace 97% of the person with prosthetics and kept the brain 3% of its original self I would argue it’s still that same person. So rather the ship would still be the same ship until you chance a part that makes it exclusively a ship. However there can still be some debate since now u have to argue semantics and definitions ie what makes a table and chair different if they look the same.
That's literally what I was thinking
@@agspeekz the next issue becomes placing value on different items. Your head constitutes less than 10% of your body but if you were to put that on another body, would you still be you? Just makes you think.
@@retiredtk Late but not the same thing. Your brain is your entire identity. But a ship is a ship and thus its entire body is its brain in this case unlike you
@@JunkoEnoshima. let's say someone switched memories and personality with two different people but they had the same brain brain and body are they the same people?
This is basically the philosophy of the Japanese manga Houseki No Kuni (Land of the Lustrous).
The characters are sentient humanoid gemstones and it’s established that their memories are stored in the stones that their bodies are made of and that losing a piece of their body can lead to lost memory and identity. Over the course of the story the main character, Phosphophyllite, has so much of their body lost and replaced with different types of materials that they experience an intense identity crisis because while they are still Phos in name, there’s so little of their original body left (literally just their torso), are they really still Phos?
honestly i was reading through these comments waiting to see someone talking about Land of the Lustrous lol.
This reminds me of the story in the NY Times this morning about old rock bands getting together for reunion tours even though some and at times all original members are missing. Can there be an Eagles reunion concert if only one of the original members is present and at what point did they stop being the Eagles?
Noah P -- Ditto the Beach Boys, one must assume.
And every recipe comment on the internet. “I loved the stir fried chicken with ginger and shallots “ recipe but i am vegan so i swapped the chicken for tofu, and i used leek and galangal instead ..... and added some lemongrass and chilli.
Me after Ship of Theseus convo with Vision:
I require elaboration.
I struggle with this paradox on a car my parents purchased new in 1951 that I am now renovating. At what point does it cease to be the car my parents purchased? I want it to remain "their" car, yet many parts are in need of replacement because of wear and deterioration. I also want it to be moderately driveable. At least for now, I'm drawing the line at "normal wear and replacement items" I.e. things they would have naturally replaced had they continued to drive the car. Should I need to replace fundamental parts that weren't intended to wear out and be replaced such as the frame and body tub and engine block, it will then be a different car. Regardless, it's a question that causes me pause for every part I'm unable to restore.
Exactly! And what about insurance! Will your parents insurance (if they didn't let it lapse) still cover the car with all your renovations or will you have to get new insurance as if it is a different car. Same goes for permits.
But then again, was this the car that they used to drive you around in, the one you borrowed as a kid? When you sit in it does it feel special to you in the way only the "same car" could?
Definitely didn’t understand what this concept was in WandaVision until this video so thank you so much! BUT why can’t there be an arbitrary cut off? I would say that the Ship of Theseus no longer remains the Ship of Theseus when the percentage of replaced parts exceeds over 50%
Also here bc of WandaVision
Ok let's say that's the case. Then can you say that 49 % change will not change the ship.
Consider a band with four people one person goes it's still the original band, then after two people goes it should be the original band and after third person goes it will still be the original band
Or we can say if two person goes it will change the band and then if one person goes it will change the band.
It's the perspective of different person that creates different cuttoff
Therefore we cannot have a clear cuttoff
@@thomasshelby2630 I love your response. Thank you so much for responding to my proposed theory. I love your analogy. In your scenario, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I think it’s more difficult with bands because of the significance that certain members play in its identity. When Kurt Cobain died, so did Nirvana. Could the Black Eyed Peas be the Black Eyed Peas without will.i.am? Fergie wasn’t an original member so it’s clear that the role she was in was replaceable. Unless you’re a hardcore fan of them, you wouldn’t know who the other members are like that by name (other than the two I mentioned). In my book, will.i.am is the integral core of the group. It’s a different band if he’s no longer in it. However, I don’t this is the same scenario as the ship though. My percentage theory can work for a ship but not for a band. Since one component of the band is more important than the others. I’m going to stop here because I don’t want to ramble on too much. What do you think?
50% by what measure? Discrete parts that can be carried individually? If that's the case, what if the ship is composed (for simplicity) of 500 planks and 4500 nails? Does merely replacing 2500 rusted nails while all the original planks remain intact make it no longer the Ship of Theseus? Or perhaps it's 50% by mass. In that case, what if over 50% of the mass of the ship resides in the heavy oak skeleton on which all of the hull and deck planks are attached? That means you could replace all of the exterior visible planking with, say, pink plastic sheets and it would still be the Ship of Theseus. Or skip the replacement and just strip it down to that skeleton only and it would still be the Ship of Theseus.
None of these scenarios seem satisfactory. And do we include non-discrete parts in this calculation, like paint or pitch? If the entire ship is repainted or resealed because all of the original paint or pitch dried up and fell off, how much new paint is equivalent to one new deck plank for purposes of determining the ship's identity?
I also think a ship is likely to have distinctive parts that are more critical to its identity than others, much like core members of a rock band. A ship might have a unique figurehead at the bow, Theseus's personal emblem painted on the side, a unique flag, or other distinctive parts that originally set it apart from other ships of a generically similar design. An argument could be made that removing or replacing these moves it closer to being a different ship faster than removing or replacing some more generic part.
the moment when it was broken, it stopped being the ship of theseus - now it attains a new identity, the broken ship of theseus, that was once the ship of theseus
That's cute. 😅
The answer is merely, that the more you think about something, the more problems you find. You can't prove there's not a soul in the ship that at any point jumped from one ship to the other. So maybe it's just as difficult to answer as analysing beauty
It stopped being the ship of Theseus once the ship left Theseus’ possession
I think a simple Presupposition could fix this paradox. That is if the change is less than 50% it's still the same ship, but if the change is more than 50% it's not the same ship anymore ☺️
The Vision had all of us interested in identity metaphysics for the first time ever LMAO.....who says Marvel can't lead to furthering your education? LOL
true
why not, Warner Brothers taught us classical music and opera? :)
I came here because of vision 😂
Same dude
Wandavision gang we here! Enlighten us please 🙌🏾😂
We require elaboration
@@SupahSmashBrotha96 😂😂😂 yesss
Yes 👍
@@SupahSmashBrotha96 I understood that reference 😂
the guy on the left sounds like a rock god who's years of illicit drug use has caught up with him
what if it is the ship only until the last piece remains? so when removed the last original piece, it stops becoming the ship of theseus.
Think of your car insurance. Your car insurance covers your car, which is usually defined by the registration, pink slip, and most importantly your insurance contract.
But what if you keep your car for a long time and slowly replaced it piece by piece until it didn't have any of the original parts anymore?
If your insurance company refused to cover it you would argue that it is the same car according to your contract with them and they had to cover it regardless of the parts.
In doing so you are arguing that what is "your car" or more to the point the insured car is defined by something more than just its physical parts. You are saying that what is "your car" is defined by the contract between you and the insurance company (as to their responsibility to provide coverage for your car) and not the specific parts that physically make up your car.
But that is only if you replace the parts of your car bit by bit. Because car insurance contracts almost all have a "total loss" provision that defines certain levels and types of damage as destroying the car. Basically, if certain parts of "the car" are all destroyed at once then it is no longer "the car" but a pile of scrap.
Even if you independently fix the car after your insurance company rules it a total loss, they will not cover you going forward, because under your contract that car no longer exists. In the eyes of the insurance company and your insurance contract the car you repaired from total loss is a different car! You will have to get new insurance.
That is one modern example of how the Ship of Theseus thought proble shows that how things aredefined by both their physical properties and conceptual ones.
So if I make a Ship of Theseus replica and I use one original Ship of Theseus plank, is it THE Ship of Theseus?
An easier way to understand this is Trigger's Broom
Trigger: There's a saying among us roadsweepers, look after your broom.
Rodney: Because then your broom will look after you?
Trigger: No Dave, just look after your broom. And that's what I've done, maintained it for 20 years. This old broom... has had 17 new heads and 14 new handles in its time.
Sid: How can it be the same bloody broom then?
Trigger: Here's the photo. What more proof do you want?
I know I wasn't the only one brought here by wandavision.
It is now a replica of the ship.
The original part ship is the rebuilt ship.
I thought this at first but because the changes were gradual the new pieces became part of the existing ship. Essentially it evolved
@@elbrones That only works if Thesues was using the ship during those changes. The thought experiment specifically says changed in a museum.
I think it’s a semantics debate that has no grounds in Objectivity. Matter is in a constant state of change, everything is always changing, eternally. Identity is just a label we attribute to familiar patterns. Boats didn’t exist until we made them, it’s recognizability is man made.
I mean if you want to REALLY dive into metaphysics, you could argue the "Ship of Thesis" changed and is no.longer the "original" as soon as it left port as NO two objects or people can be exactly the same unless both created identically at an exact single moment in time😂
I think the ship with more than %50 of the parts is the ship. Or if they can both be the ship as long as each one has at least one original piece.
If the “ship of Theseus” is defined as the original ship completely intact with all of its original planks, then the minute you remove one plank, you no longer have the entire ship of Theseus. You only have part of it. The more planks you remove, the less of it you have, until eventually you have none of it.
But most old things are never "completely intact". Almost anything discovered has cracks or is worn down or has missing pieces. So why should a key part in defining what is the ship of Theseus need to be whole?
Well you can do general maintenance but how much lol how many parts its got and who dose the maintenance Theseus himself or just other guy !! .
Trigger's broom he gets it then repairs it him self is it his or someone else's its a 2 part item so it run out of part easy ! .
Even Dr who is a sorta Theseus paradox if part of him is changed is it still him
THE INCARNATIONS OF THE DOCTOR
If you change the person is it still him lol look at Robocop what they did to him in a film its part of it Christ like
Missing from this
Life of Theseus
Parallel Lives
The real question is if they could preserve the original parts to build another ship. Why didn't they just preserve them and put it back as the original ship?
If not for Wandavision i may have never known this interesting paradox🙂
An introduction to the concepts of substances and accidents could resolve this perhaps.
Wanda vision anyone ?
I think the question itself is at fault here - or rather, how the question is asked. We should ask "why is it the Ship of Theseus", not when does it stop being that. If we answer "it is the Ship of Theseus because it has all the planks that Theseus originally stood on when he sailed" then we answer correctly - from a certain perspective. However, if over the time, all the pieces broke, and the museum fixed the ship in order so it is well maintained, and recognizable as a ship, then we answer "it is the Ship of Theseus because even though it doesn't have all its original parts, it looks like the ship of Theseus, and for many many years, had all the original parts, and even while it slowly has been reconstructed using new parts, it never stopped representing what it was originally representing: the ship Theseus once sailed". With this answer we also escape the problem of rebuilding the ship of the old parts: first, there's no need to do that, since the original ship is what we store in the museum, that's what we show to the public, and second, the old parts are broken, so they can't be used to construct the ship again, anyways.
This is it . why people going so technically. You just narrate root of the concept.
You just described it's material and formal causes. There are two more causes, efficient and final.
I am here after watching Wandavision.
Many more are to come.
When we replace a part of ship we should clour it and say this is not the orginal part, we put this part to maintain the ship to be in a shape.
Something can exist in spirit & fact.
Ship 1 exists in spirit as The Ship of Theseus as parts are replaced in perpetuity.
Ship 2 exists in fact until it decays & loses form.
Allegory for life & death or reincarnation.
The question of if it is the same ship or not is dependent upon the viewer's understanding of reality and interdependence and impermanence which shows beyond doubt that there is no such thing as a "THING" apart from the aggregates that create conditions for the perception of a 'thing'. There is literally No-Thing (not the same as 'nothing'). No chair, no you, no me, no "fill in the blank with a noun". There are only many parts which can consistently be shown to be made of other parts including physical dimensions, materials, as well as the perception of them and their environment. So there was never any single 'ship of Theseus' in the first place and there will never be one ever. No matter how many people give it the name or point to the ship itself, it won't change the fact that there is no 'shipness' to the aggregate of wood and nails in the bay, let alone any trace of 'Theseus Shipness'.
For if I stood you in front of the ship itself and asked you to show me what is the single essence of the aggregate groups makes it a 'ship'...or "where is the shipness of this thing" ... you would not be able to find it no matter how long or hard you tried to find it.
Therefore, the question is inappropriate and unanswerable due to inherent ignorance of the viewer. They try to answer using incorrect data and understanding of reality itself. Thus a paradox is created due to the incorrect view of 'thingness'.
Desperately looking for a two-word phrase based on this paradox. I think it had to do with antiques and their value. Maybe that arbitrary point in time/ replaced part where it loses it's original identity/worth.
IOIOIOIOIOIOIOIOIOIOIO KEY TO OPEN UP MULTI-UNIVERSE AS WELL AS MORE.
GREETINGS YEE OF WHO STILL THINKETH YEE ARE YOUR PHYSICAL BODY UNDERSTAND AND KNOW THAT YEE ARE MUCH MORE AS YEE ARE A CREATION FORCE WITHIN YEE AS ALL HAVE THE SAME BEGINNING FROM FORM TO FORMLESS LIMITLESS WE ARE ALL ONE
It stops being the ship of Theseus when the last original plank is changed. Then it becomes a replica/copy. Everything after the first replacement is a form of mending like a prosthetic limb.
This thought experiment also doesn't work when applied to none objects like animals and people because then you introduce memory, experience and ones self worth/identity. You would still be you if your brain was put into a robot.
I don't see the paradox.
Who came here because of Wanda Vision?
ANSWER: Neither is the ship. Is the ship when Theseus actually is in command and owns the ship. Because we are talking about an object that has no self control or “data”. IF a person looses an arm and is replaced by a robot arm. Is it still the same person? YES! BECAUSE the mind that controls the body is the same! Makes sense? If Theseus was to sell the boat he built. And the new owners keep its original parts. Is it always going to be called the boat of Theseus? No! Because a new owner(and mind) is controlling the boat. So as an object with no conscious or self managed “data” or so. It only is what was created to be. Only a boat. Thats why in the Vison fight. They say “neither” and at the end when his conscious/data is restored he says “I am vision” cause all the info(memory, data, consciousness etc) is becomes the same person regardless of the physical body. Hope that made sense.
WandaVision brought me here 🤓
Applies to all living organisms. Atoms are moving in and out of organisms all the time.
When does one living organism cease having the same identity it did period X ago?
regardless it is still a ship. so over time EVERY cell in my body has been replaced. does that mean I am no longer me? Identity is a quality of consciousness, ergo a man is more than the sum of his parts. it does not matter what external position is claimed what matters is the object of the discussions perception.
Your neurons never get replaced. Everything that makes you think ( AKA your brain ) is never replaced.
@@casualcadaver Interesting cause Vision offers a similar answers like yours
If the ship remains the same ship if only a few planks are replaced wouldnt that mean that the new planks are also the ship of theseus. So it wouldnt really matter how many planks you replace. What matters is continuity.
Great video! Thanks!
You're welcome!
IOIOIOIOIOIOIOIOIOIOIO KEY TO OPEN UP MULTI-UNIVERSE AS WELL AS MORE.
GREETINGS YEE OF WHO STILL THINKETH YEE ARE YOUR PHYSICAL BODY UNDERSTAND AND KNOW THAT YEE ARE MUCH MORE AS YEE ARE A CREATION FORCE WITHIN YEE AS ALL HAVE THE SAME BEGINNING FROM FORM TO FORMLESS LIMITLESS WE ARE ALL ONE
By my opinion, which is ship of Theseus? It's decided by Theseus.. Like my phone.. I have throw away, sold, give away, and lost my old phones, but even if I have a phone right now, and I found/buyback/retrieve my old phone, I am the one who decided which is my phone, maybe one of them, maybe two, or maybe three, or maybe neither.. It's up to me.. So if it's in this case.. Shall we ask Theseus? We can't? This means neither of this ship is ship of Theseus.. The old original ship might be used to be the ship of Theseus.. What if Theseus deny it's no longer his ship? Maybe he give it to his friend? We Don't know..
Anyone Else Here Because Of Their Teacher? Religious Studies?
Nope. WandaVision.
So Vision without the stone is not Vision, because a part was removed, that makes him a whole new person, but with the body and the memories, he is Vision. The stone wasn’t vision, the stone was an accessory, Vision was the body and mind, so we do have Vision, but we don’t cause he’s white now changing the whole vision, but he’s still got the same parts without the stone so we actually do have Vision
Damn😪
Wanda will no matter what fall in love with every version of vision lol 😂
It's actually simple, no? The ship of theseus is not the ship of theseus already after the first plank has changed. It resembles a lot, but it's NOT the ship of theseus, even though, it's very very close to the same. And then, after each replacement, it gets less and less identical. Meaning, you would actually discard option A and keep option B. There wouldn't have been 2000 different ships, altough, there kind of would have, but it's at first the ship of theseus and the 1999 other times its an altered version (that keeps being altered) for the rest of the time.
If we allow our consciousness to recognize more realms of reality than the physical world this dilemma could be resolved. In the physical world the two ships can be understood with the language of mathematics, specifically with percentages. In the logical realm things are classified according to perspectives which is dependent on our reliance of authority.
but what recognizes the reality of your brain?
Dan Skiver --- As we all know, everything, bar none, is a vibration of light. Light is the Creator, ergo all things have a God-given consciousness. Pat your car's dash and give the car a name and it'll go a lot longer than if you kick its tires. Only one ship has Theseus' vibration, the deck on which he walked, his sleeping quarters, the helm. Those are the things that made the pile of boards nailed together 'his' ship. In a very spiritual sense, the ship would in fact recognize him. The planks comprising the ship are irrelevant.
@@marilynguinnane4663 > all things have a God-given consciousness.
> Pat your car's dash and give the car a name and it'll go a lot longer than if you kick its tires.
I think you are delusional. We do not live in Toy Story.
@@HoTTDooDleZ -- I'm into metaphysics in a big way. You're plainly not. This does not make me delusional. And in fact, perhaps the makers of Toy Story abstractedly know a bit more than you do. Everything is a part of God, M.B. If you don't know that, learn it.
@@marilynguinnane4663 > Everything is a part of God
if God changes, he isn't really God, because something that can change, has unrealized potentials, so it isn't perfect. You especially run into trouble when it comes to some forms of powers or knowledge, since that would mean God isn't omnipotent or omniscient.
Pantheism is also refuted by the fact that the universe, including space and time started with the Big Bang. And everything that begins to exist has a cause. So by your theory you'd have a created creator or a designed designer.
Even the ancient Greeks answered this nonsense easily with Divine Simplicity.
> perhaps the makers of Toy Story abstractedly know a bit more than you do.
Sure they do. Just how the makers of Shrek really know about all sorts of magical creatures.
> I'm into metaphysics in a big way.
Take a heap of sand and remove one grain at a time. At what point does the heap of sand stop being mad at you?
our physical identities dont matter, it matters its value, for example. Every seven years i believe, every single cell in our body replaces. However it doesnt matter. I am still myself, and my value of myself matters. My physical features dont. Aswell as my blood. That changes too.
But what about the other parts of the ship that aren't made up of planks?
I was thinking that too but I don't think it's that relevant.
What if planks were ordered exchanged but *actually* didn't get exchanged but were put in a secret room? After 2000 years someone notices and replaces them all at once. Now transferring that to humans. If you were beamed (as in Star Trek) would you still be you? And if you were just destroyed and then reassembled by chance, thats still you? What if there was a minor difference? And now for the last twist: In the future, there may be a gazillion simulated humans (equivalent to biological humans - as the substrate of life doesn't matter). Among that vast number of people there will be some who are identical to you (because of the big number of variations) except for minor differences. Is that also still you? If yes, you will live forever (or at least again and again as long as simulations will be run with extremely high numbers of humans). Simulating one human life needs a minimum of 1800Ws, someone calculated. With the energy of our sun alone you could thus simulate 10^44 human lifes or 10^33 times all the humans who have ever lived.
It's still a ship and the identity still remains even if all the parts have been replaced.
Yup I'm here after Wandavision
similar question was first explained by Buddha 2500 years
When he spoke about what makes the self the self
this helped me
Glad we could help :)
Idk but I think Theseus wants his ship back!
Wouldn't it be a new ship when the final part of it was replaced
This is exactly how I look at Arsenal football club today, all the aspects of the winning team from 2002 have been replaced from the badge to the stadium and the players... is it still Arsenal football club?
If Harry, Zayn and Louis drop the band is it still One Direction?
My answer is both are ships full stop. The physical realm doesn't recognize the concept of ownership and whose atoms belonged to who. Thus its an invalid question that cannot be answered this way.
Your the only deistic philosopher in somesense
When 51% of the ship is replaced then it’s no longer the original ship regardless of the quantity of ships with original parts.
The physical form of the ship is not important. It is the idea, the mean of the ship that is more important to one. The ship of Theseus will always be the The ship of Theseus because it has been attached with a symbol, a idea or a meaning.
Also another point is, If you replace 100% of the ship and you tell someone that this is the original ship and the ship managed to do xyz then they will believe it. As long as that person is not aware of the ships part being 100% replaced. So does it matter at this point that the ship has had its parts replaced?
The problem is that the philosophers have a crisp view, we should have a fuzzy view, in fuzzy we deal with values between 0 and 1, in this case even if we have 2 ships the total membership values cannot exceed 1
IOIOIOIOIOIOIOIOIOIOIO KEY TO OPEN UP MULTI-UNIVERSE AS WELL AS MORE.
GREETINGS YEE OF WHO STILL THINKETH YEE ARE YOUR PHYSICAL BODY UNDERSTAND AND KNOW THAT YEE ARE MUCH MORE AS YEE ARE A CREATION FORCE WITHIN YEE AS ALL HAVE THE SAME BEGINNING FROM FORM TO FORMLESS LIMITLESS WE ARE ALL ONE
It is the ship of Theseus when I say so. It is not the ship of Theseus when I say it is not. There, paradox solved.
Ship of theseus is just a thought.
It's so much more than that, overtime the very foundation of your body (mosyly cells, skin etc) are replaced, with this, can you say for certain you are the same person as 4 year old you? If you believe you are, let's jump to the next part, memories. What makes a perzon themselves, is their memories, chances are you don't remember anything when you were four, if you do we'll swap it with 3 or 2. Nowthe question has a whole other meaning. Sorry i'm shit at explaining stuff but that's the point, its not just a thought its a paradox of life
Very nice
Thank you
Here because xqc said it in a gta roleplay
Oh my gawd vision u search it up in UA-cam🤣🤣🤣
who is here because of WandaVision
Wanda vision
The continued misnaming of the Ship Atheseus Problem is quite tiresome. Encyclopedias have been doing it for a century or so, and Google doesn't even recognize the proper nominative.
Our culture is losing its collective memory, and its only getting worse.
Could not this just be seen from a percentage stand point? Replace half the ship and now it is 50% The Ship of Theseus. Have only a few, it is 1% the Ship of Theseus. It's identity is lost piece by piece as opposed to in one definite moment.
B
wonderful videoo
Thank you.
i have an essay to writte with the title' who am i' ..would you have any other ideas or arguments on the problem of identity@@PhilosophyVibe
@martinaa-ev2zn we cover this in our Leibniz's Law video: ua-cam.com/video/VMJDe5rHvRI/v-deo.html
We also touch on this in our Modal Realism video:
ua-cam.com/video/cxt_uMkdrhc/v-deo.html
We do not have a specific video on personal identity yet, but it is something we will look into.
When more than half of it has been changed, it is no longer the same ship.
As the video points out, that designation is still seemingly arbitrary.
How do you justify 50.0000000000001% as still the "same" but 49.999999999999% as different? It seems rather arbitrary, right?
That also brings up an interesting position; what about at the point where the ship is precisely 50% original and 50% replaced? Is it both the "same" and "different" simultaneously?
I swear, "philosophers" are jus men with an unhappy marriage 😭
Does the ship have a soul? No. Does it have a consciousness, then? Yes. All things have a consciousness. All things pick up the vibration of the human being who owned it, or handled it. Then the steering mechanism of the ship would have Theseus' vibration, making the helm the determining factor. If the helm were left in tact on the original ship, in wouldn't matter how many planks were replaced because the helm carried the vibration of Theseus, marking ownership. If the helm were switched to a replacement ship, then THAT would be the ship of Theseus.
better mic please...
Neither is the true ship
Why is this a serious philosophical dilemma, it borders on intellectual sophistry, but apparently it's like one of the great conundrums in western philosophy. Especially when they use a museum piece as an example, when you would totally want the original ship with the original planks. That's the whole point of ancient archeological relics. So you would definitely go out of your way to say this is NOT the ship of theseus, it is a recreation. It is noteworthy that it started out that way, but then it just kept rotting, so we had to replace all the pieces, one by one. And so it's not the original ship. Firm, definitive answer. And no philosophical quandary about it.
If you're talking about a life form, whose cells are always dying and being replaced, and yet the living entity carries on as a whole without dying until natural causes set in, that's profoundly different. Because it's a living creature, and is thus something of a miraculous mystery of nature, radically distinct it would appear, from simple man-made constructions like a boat. The only germane similarity to this so-called paradox is that they both could be described or naively thought of as being comprised of various parts. So I strain to derive any sort of philosophical or contemplative value out of this thought experiment.
Maybe it's supposed to be like a Japanese koan. Something to clear your mind of thoughts, because it's so stupid. Like the tree falling in the forest, did anyone hear it, if there was no around to hear it! Which is another real humdinger.