Let's have a little discussion on this thread. Wanna know if you disagree, wanna add on some points, or if you agree at all. And please, lets try to be civil.
My favorite rrat is that at first the contracts were WAY too lenient and the talents made out like bandits, but Gunrun invested the Big Bucks in Silicon Valley and other ventures that came crashing down and now the contracts are dogshit to compensate, so the talents have no reason to stay. I really believe bad business decisions is gonna be VShojos demise this year.
I mean Vshojo is a company that has had some problems cough cough froot cough and a bit too much freedom remember the nux situation you can argue nux was wrong yada yada but you have to admit they threw him to the wolves and the vtubers themselves keep everything the models and merch and everything so vshoujo was running on borrowed time until they decided yeah I’m done bye if they’re offered something more to stay longer and the cherry picking talents like Haruka and no hate to her but still and sorry for my rant😅
This already happened in the UA-cam sphere and is why you dont see many talent agencies anymore like Machinima and shit, because their business model fails once the creator gets too big. Vshojo doesn't offer enough to the talents to make it worth the revenue cut, at least if you're in Hololive you get the chance to do idol activities as well as using their recognizable brand, same applies to Niji but less idol and more creative freedom. I disagree that Vshojo is going to bounce back from this however, it's entirely likely that the girls convince each other to leave the company and go solo, I don't think 3 talents leaving is a coincidence and they probably talked about it a lot between themselves, the likelihood of Ironmouse, K-Son, etc. leaving is high and they would take their massive fanbases with them too.
@@MrAlquimista666 Woah, he did that? Is there proof of that or is this just speculation. I mean, if the contract terms got worse this year compared to last year, of if the company made a loss, it makes sense.
Thats pretty much it. It was never an agency in the first place. Nyanners, Mousey and Melody created Vshojo company as a representation of them for sponsors, merch deals and other things, and then they recruit their friends along the way.
Hololive only hires top tier established streamer is wrong tho. Some of the talents they hired have low followings in their previous career, or straight up amateur with almost 0 experience (Subaru & Kobo is the perfect example of this). Hololive, or YAGOO just have a very darn strong BYAKUGAN to see and recruit the talents with best skill & POTENTIAL. They very rarely miss with their recruits.
When I heard about Silvervale and Veibae leaving, I didn't think much off it. Stuff happens, and sometimes people leave. Nyanners leaving too shows me the problem is deeper than I first thought.
@@EndoftheBeginning17 it's not the vtuber boom ending, it's the platform revenue dying. Revenue is down like 60% on youtube per view... it's apparently worse on twitch, since revenue is down, what the brand is doing to get alternate revenue really really matters. It's fine if vshoujo doesn't get you any promotional deals or mech sales when the money rolls in from streaming, but when the streaming money dries up and vshoujo isn't doing anything to promote you or get you alternate sources of revenue, then its a big problem. The girls leaving have been with vshoujo for a long time, i suspect they've been told "we're new, we're working on it" for years, and they were content because the income was good anyway, to wait for the alternate sources of revenue. well streaming revenue is in the trash right now, so the lack of alternate forms of income really starts to hurt, and if i were a vshoujo talent who's been told for years they're working on it, i'd probably leave as well. i mean why stay if they can't get you merch and promotional deals? The cooperate management (mis management) of vshoujo has been out in plain sight for years now. you'll see more talents leaving soon too. Why doesn't this happen to hololive? because hololive has worked really hard to build up promotional deals and merch sales. Streaming income can go in the trash and those girls are all still swimming in the cash. Hololive's recent financials claimed they were making (hololive itself) almost 1.2 mil per talent in NET revenue, that is pure earnings after splitting earnings with the girls and paying staff... 1.2mil per talent. think about that one. they're making far more money from merch sales and promos then they do from streaming. So much so they're talking about making their own streaming platform so they don't need to share 30% with youtube. you don't do that if you're worried about streaming income, you do that when all your alternate forms of income dwarf what you make streaming.
Fck Nyanners. But Vale leaving and Bae is big. Veibae deff though has been wanting to go solo for a while esp after getting with soda and seeing how successful he is without any agency's and Soda's connections can help her a lot too
@@arizona_anime_fan Jesus….. almost 1.2M per Talent! But it makes sense if you think about it. They make the boys and girls work for it. Singing classes, dancing classes, offline events, merchandise ideas, projects, voice acting, live concerts, and minimum streaming hour per week on top of all that.
@@MenrvaS people don't realize how much offline work these Hololive girls do. Some are busier than others but if you look at their offVtubing activities, they are no different than your regular singers, idols, celebrities, whatever you want to call it. The difference is that they also streaming
VShojo's biggest problem is not understanding how to run a business in the first place lol It banks on big people but honestly gives them no incentive to join except for "freedom to say what they want". Although that's where many of their issues and dramas stemmed from is they represent a brand and would say some terrible stuff for their image. There's a reason for PR speak and most of the talents clearly weren't gonna fit into a corporate space. The whole thing made absolutely no sense. It was literally just a clique. This is also a reason why people need to stop saying talents should quit and start their own agency. That's a dumb idea because you're burdening them with so much more than what they already do. If you want an organization like OTK(indies coming together type orgs) you gotta really plan it, have good staff, and a collective understanding on how to run a business.
I agree! Freedom is nice, however too much freedom for your staff can spell death of a group. Hence all the drama that the girls kept making, really ruined the brand image. And them leaving basically says a lot, to not only the group as a whole but also the individuals of who there were. Very toxic.
@@jeppyjep yeah but unlike otk who all came together and were involved in the bts stuff, vshojou are more divided in the manager side and the talent side. To make an example in otk while they have their own streamer career they also are involved in other stuff (brands deals, merch, collabs etc) much more than vshojou seems to be. In vshojou case the way that was formed made it so that the manager side and the talent dont interact (?) That much, like most other vtuber companies the vshojou girls are managed by the company. In otk is the other way around
@@Dustwj842 Exactly this, and despite some controversies and incidents, its been the most successful out of the orgs that have been organized like this...at least for now. It all depends on if they can keep momentum or sell out like past groups have.
This is why a corporation to cover (read: guide) you on your lapses is a strength in itself, regardless of any subjective feelings you have towards organisation-grown Vtubers. Case in point - Rmb Gundou Mirei? Although she's still worryingly suspended after 5 weeks, the heat has been taken off her because Anycolor basically put themselves stage front and ushered her backstage to not say a word further. If this was VShojo handling the same matter, their "freedom" mentality would have put them through continuous flak until the offender is thrown into a pit of needles to die a slow death. A lot of people need to realise that a corporation can both shield and bolster your standing, but you too must pay your own dues and respect the powers and processes that keep you in the field, even with IRL work.
So basically VShojo was or still is merely a management firm for already established independent Talents to get better networking and not a production company like Cover or Anycolor who creates their own Talents and manages them until the end. Once the girls are capable in getting better sponsorship and marketing deals on their own without the help of VShojo’s management, ironically because they helped the girls to connect with the right people initially, it will inevitably run it’s course.
Vshojo company model is nothing new, in the earlier days of youtube with SMOSH, MindCrack, Machinima and going to the newer ones like OTV, Geexplus, Dream Team.
@@edenromanov Actually… I don’t think being a management firm for independent VTubers is such a bad idea. If they promote themself as such to the general audience, they might even get new talents under their belt who aren’t too keen on joining an actual VTuber agency/company and abandoning their current persona and community that is attached to it, but want the benefit of having a management team that can help you reach even more people and work out better business deals for the future. The question is if the VShojo Team already sees themselves as such or if they actually thought they were a company like Hololive for example, with talents who would stick with them till the end.
@@edenromanov Honestly their business model is fine. They just need to recruit more talents to they can keep a pool of like 10 or so in circulation. Having a company where people come and go can definitely work.
@@DaMechaTalks _"The question is if the VShojo Team already sees themselves as such"_ Kson described them as exactly that every time she mentioned their business model.
I wonder why Vshojo never thought to market themselves as a springboard in an attempt to mitigate how bad they would've looked when bigger named talents leave, and especially in bulk like this. Why not have leaving as an intended part of the business... like "graduation" for example?
Because their first wave wasn't even a new group of content creators but already well established ones, even as small as Nyan and Vei were originally they already had a presence in the Vtuber community and creator space. They shot themselves in the foot for having Mouse, Mel and others be their company's face since it looked more like a group made by successful creators than a stand-alone group that is recruiting talents. The JP branch didn't help since its more like an adoption center since they haven't gone their way to recruit more talents and seems to be just a place for JP creators to go to after graduating
As the guy mention most of them are established names when they first started Melody was well known for her adult content and collaboration with Nuxtaku vei and Nyanners has been on the internet for years on 4chan and other sites. The only talent they really had homegrown was silver, mouse, and zentreya. Froot and haruka were established indy talent meanwhile the japan branch were former Hololive members which should've help them gain attention especially now since Ironmouse is one of the biggest Vtuber on twitch but yet the company focusing on is selling merch and not really promoting
You've never worked as an agent in your life and I can tell from this statement. VShojo talents are self employed and mostly managed by VShojo. That's the deal and it works as long as both parties are happy, however due to changes internally and externally, the new contracts aren't viable for everyone and as such they've shook hands, walked away from the table and gone their separate ways, that's business, it's how it's always worked. This isn't like a traditional Nijisanji and Hololive situation where they pretty much own you. It's a simple gig, there's nothing wrong with what either party has done, you have just made that up in your head.
I disagree with the idea that Mouse and Mel leaving won't kill Vshojo. Their brand would be SO DAMAGED at that point that I don't see them recovering. I don't watch them as much as I used to, but I do like most of the girls in Vshojo. No hate, just really disappointed because I thought that the idea of starting the group with multiple already established names had a lot of potential to it and it was all wasted. As months passed, it would seem they only existed to sell merch. They rarely have collabs, one member can't commit to streaming, they only onboards friends, they mishandled the auditions and doxxing situation, and their JP branch is going nowhere.
Disagree with the first part. While people who don't follow VShojo members probably don't have a good opinion of them, fans of their current talents still hold a positive opinion. I think what Historian is trying is to say is to not piss off their remaining fanbase, especially the ones who are willing to blow money on merch and events.
Mouse leaving alone would kill Vshojo she is one of the Biggest names in the industry. At the start the entire Draw of Vshojo was her melody and nyanners. Being easily some of the most recgonizable None japan based vtubers. VSHOJO sold itself on them and Their assosiation is what drew in other talents like haruka nyanners leaving already has everyone wondering what kind of bullshit is going on behind closed doors being a founding member and one of their biggest original cast if Mouse or mel left Vshojo would not recover and likely lead to a trickle of other cast leaving as well.
@@noctotainlowry9246et's be fair here, Mouse as talented as she was would be nowhere if it weren't for Melody (and Vshojo as an effect), and let's not kid oirselves here, the western vtubing scene blew up because of Melody. Even the JP audiences got a wind of Melody because she was a subject of Hololive's Coco Kiryu (yeah yeah we all know who she is now) morning show at one time. Silver, Vei and Nyan at that tine were only talked about in 4chan's /vt/ but they were brought into a more mainstream audience thanks to Melody and Vshojo. With that said, it's up to gunrun to make Vshojo a lasting brand with the clout Melody and co had started, so it can still stand even with Melody leaving.
Doesnt Mel have stocks in Vshojo, to a degree that she has say in the company? I doubt she would leave. With Mousey...tbh the writing is on the wall, the fact that her bestie(Nyanners) left is already a big uphill battle for Vshojo in the negotiations, plus she already is signed to a new and good talent agency, she wouldnt be totally on her own.
@@Phyrrax i am not sure if mel has stock or not as i am not all the savy when it comws to the side of a organization but wouldent all the original founding members have stock given they are the entire reason it is around in the first place?
Relating it to sports, groups like VShojo, Cyberlive, etc. are like talent agencies where they represent the “players” in negotiations with brands, help them with legal and accounting matters, etc. Where as HoloLive and Niji are like the actual sports teams, where you get drafted, sign a contract to play for that team, you wear that team’s uniform, you get a jersey number, etc. And you can get dropped, traded, or quit the team, at which point you have to turn in your uniform.
If we are going with the (I’m assuming American because you said draft) sports team analogies, VShojo is basically the Dallas Cowboys of the VTubers. They’re the hot team with all the pizazz but neither of them had made to even the Conference Finals since 1996 Actually nevermind, VShojo would make the finals faster than the Cowboys
Hololive is a hermetically sealed company. Their talents are recruited then provided with models, characters, etc. While prior experience and popularity can be a large boost, this has never been directly leveraged. It took a while for people to realize their prior identities and it wasn't until council second gen that people started to actively and quickly fishing out who was who. Hololive really was primarily focused on talent and personality, strongly supported by the Hololive infrastructure. The main constraint of Hololive is that you pay for the stability with freedom, though this has improved recently. Vshojo was a good idea because it was the thing that indie vtubers needed to give them legitimacy to be able to compete with Hololive. It promised this as well as management support and logistical support, but as years went on, the girls realized that the extent of that managerial support wasn't as significant as they expected and that they didn't gain legitimacy either because in their case that came from audience size exclusively as they weren't willing to compromise their personality to become individually brand friendly. This was a large reason they were willing to join a "talent company" like Vshojo, because they promised them they could keep that freedom. But that freedom also meant that Vshojo could not give them legitimacy they hoped for. What even is legitimacy? Legitimacy is becoming Tokyo's tourism ambassador. It goes beyond just brand awareness. It goes beyond popularity. It's becoming a household name. Legitimacy is when your family members know who Gura is and not because you told them. There's levels to that and none of the vshojo girls former, current or future will ever get that in any measure thanks to vshojo. They can only get that with their own viewer numbers. Unfortunately, the more 18+ you get, the more you cuss, the more degenerate you are, the bigger the threshold gets, and vshojo didn't seem to lower that threshold in any meaningful way. Hololive has ballooned to the point where they have built the image of their own company as well as individual image of each of their talents to where they appear as more and better than they are in reality. That's what a brand can do. People are more likely to buy a product simply because the label has reputation, irrespective of what the quality of the product actually is. There is corelation between product quality and brand quality and if the former lowers significantly for long enough, the latter will also diminish. However, there is a certain buffer that the brand quality offsets. This is why the Hololive girls are getting more freedom now, more opportunities and can be more yabai and cuss more. It's because they, and their company built up that reputation and brand quality to where certain allowances are now available to them. Vshojo simply isn't providing a service worth the amount they are charging. That's all it comes down to.
Most fans of Hololive fans dont know the VA's identity, real or Imagined Add to that that Kiara is a troll that keep throwing hints about Gura must have work at Disney during Disney Minecraft Collab and Kiara was to bring "you weren't who I was expecting" (Sena Howard) at there off collab (followed by a few seconds of silence before Gura sighd and says"I dont know what to say about that") buried that bullshit theory😹
Personally I don't think Vshojo is doing bad in terms of promoting their talents, rather than just being tech support. GunRun is extremely good at tech, and always helps out the girls when needed. Nyan leaving was a financial decision, Vei leaving was financially motivated and she's dating Sodapoppin so yeah you can guess where that's going. Silvervale leaving was bc she doesn't view friendships the way others do aka she is more extroverted and wants constant interaction. Vshojo is a supporting pillar for brand deals, projects and potential collabs. Not a massive promotion machine which extends their talents publicity other than a few lore videos which are directed by the talents themselves. A talent joins, gets a pillar in which it supports her projects, gives her contact to potential collaborators which can help her. It's very apparent bc the talents get to keep everything including IP and such.
@@fyiatflyta In terms of talent promotion, I'd say they're doing what they can, which is not to the level of what Hololive does, but I wouldn't say that they are doing a bad job with that necessarily. In terms of stability, vshojo is rather shaky. Their failure to handle controversy properly adds to that.
Again it has been said a million times but Vshojo also just doesn’t DO anything for the talents. Nijisanji release new merch, voice packs, and shit for their talents almost every other week. And Hololive while releasing less merch also organize more events and big concerts for their talents. I literally cannot think of anything Vshojo has done for their talents recently.
They can't even protect their talents. They threw Nux under the bus for warning people about a serious scam (which the organization did allow, according to reciepts they refused to acknowledge) they'd swept under the rug for months, then permitted their talents to start a harrassment campaign on twitter, then refused to take accountability for it. It went into straight character-smearing territory rather than objective criticism, and only stopped when Nux backed down after he'd cleared his name. Private apologies won't cut it for public condemnation, especially when those people incited their communities to act spitefully towards one of their own. In that, they showed how they value their reputation more than the wellbeing of indie talents, and are willing to scapegoat and perpetuate troubling standards in their own team just to skirt by that issue. Then Silver got harrassed for playing a game, only to be met by dead silence from their coworkers and management. The 7 months comment seems out of line, but when you consider that her harrassment online made headlines the fact that no one reached out to her in her own agency must have been pretty disheartening. Vshoujo may have bad contracts or good ones, but the way they protect their talents - both current and potential - is far too lacking.
fr. if the talent just wanted someone to take care all behind the stuff scene. might as well just join mythical talent and pay them to do stuff for you
The main problem that V Shojo is having right now is the fact that they're supposed to be for the Indies and yet they aren't really supporting them enough to be worth choosing them over a talent agency. Obviously JP will probably stay because V-Shojo JP is actually doing pretty well all things considered but the fact is that before becoming Indies all 3 of them had a large following that they brought over with them. V-Shojo is making power moves but it's staying power is not really changing. JP Mousey and the remaining members are fine but the fact is that it will come to a point where they don't exactly need the support that V-Shojo gives them anymore. The primary problem that's plaguing them is the question of if they are a Talent Agency or a Vtuber Corporation with a Talent Agency on top of that. If they're a Talent Agency they need to start giving more support to the Talents in general for whatever endeavors they need and not going radio silent. If they're a Vtuber Corporation they need to figure out and nail down what makes their contract so unappealing to renew and focus on rebuilding good faith with the Talents Past and New. There are some people whose livelihoods depend on getting a decent paycheck and having fun with friends is just a cherry on top. That's the sort of Niche that V-Shojo has put themselves in, but that brand is currently faltering because of so many people leaving for one reason or another. Now for Nyanners Silvervale and Veibae it's kinda clear that the reasons they left were for Censorship reasons more than anything else but you can't really fault V-Shojo for having censorship on those members specifically once you've seen their previous history on the Internet to an extent. I think those three were the Three that were most liable to leaving down the line for that reason. Though considering the fact that they were 95% uncensored one has to wonder how bad the Contract really was to make them leave or if they were always planning to at some point? I personally think it was a combination of the two. Veibae didn't really need V-Shojo anymore and kinda wants to do her own thing as an Indie for the best or worst. Which is fine more power to you. It's really Silvervale and Nyanners where the cascade starts taking shape because Silvervale wasn't really defended by V-Shojo where it counted and made the mistake of feeding the Troll which made a massive feedback loop of toxicity that ultimately culminated in her leaving. Nyanners is admittedly one of the ones where it's either solely on V-Shojo or solely on or because of her with no real in-betweens.
Just following some of my favorite hololive members, COVER does a crap ton for their talents. Artists that make their models, rigging 3D models, new clothing and accessories, idol concerts, music producers to help them write original songs (Gura's Reflect is a perfect example of that), tech support, merch...what is VShojo offering? That's a good question.
What you've described there is Cover working very hard to establish and maintain the *characters/personas/IPs* that they create more or less from scratch; the amount of support that they give to the talent/voice/actor is comparably less. Coco is always the prime example and although it was technically an amicable graduation, a clean break, it is widely known that Cover could and should have done a whole lot more to support her.
@@Psyche_TH Widely known how? Because someone on some board interpreted some words by Kson in a way that fit their "companies evil" mindset? I really want to know, what do you mean by "widely known", because unless you have a video or recording of Kson actually, unequivocally stating so, your "widely known" facts are just "widely believed" conjectures
@@Psyche_TH Should have done more? Cover literally abandoned their biggest market for her, Lost perms to stream some of the biggest games like Genshin, and invited the harassment of an entire country. What "more" are you asking for?
@@Psyche_TH What do you mean by "widely known"? You mean that a bunch of people you know have that opinion? Even if that were true, Coco was an extreme edge case that drew the ire of an entire country and its government; a country they fully abandoned the effort for. Using her situation as representative of Cover's efforts for their talents is cherry-picking the evidence. The Mana Aloe and Uruha Rushia terminations are significantly better examples to draw from for evidence of Cover's alleged mishandling of talents, but I believe even those are on shaky ground as Cover elucidated reasons as to why those terminations happened. Hitomi Chris is another termination that happened after announcement, but I don't know the background on that. Not to forget that Cover has maintained the vast majority of their talents on the Hololive side: over the course of around ~four years and introducing ~45 talents (Numbers are off the top of my head; including ID and EN) only five have graduated/been terminated (again off the top of my head: Mana Aloe, Uruha Rushia, Hitomi Chris, Kiryu Coco, and Tsukumo Sana; Not counting the ones from Hololive China). That is certainly at least in part due to Hololive's clout and the owning of the character IPs, but if the support was as insufficient across the board as you imply, we should have seen more members leaving. Speaking of the support, you've drawn an arbitrary distinction between supporting the character and supporting the person behind it. There are certainly things that the talents do on their own: I don't remember who spoke on it (it was either Calli, Moona, or Axel), but some portion of the costs for MVs, maybe all of it, comes out of the talent's wallet. Setting up Collabs, streams or songs, and of course the streaming itself, etc. also comes from the talents. Talents also have to lay down rules with chat, but I don't know if Cover at least offers to provide mods. But is isn't as though Cover does nothing: one thing is the joint statement they had with Nijisanji to pursue legal action against people defaming their talents, though I'm not sure what action has been taken in pursuit of this since then. Another thing that I've heard talked about extensively from the Tempus boys is the securing of permissions to play games: from what I hear, they literally have a whole team of people dedicated for this that are constantly reaching out to companies, working on contracts, etc. so the talents can play games without the fear of DMCA takedown. Calli has talked about calling her manager when she messed up personal things: I think she accidentally locked herself out of her apartment once and called J-chad to help. Management has also appeared on-stream for multiple members when they're doing hand-cam stuff. And of course, there's the concerts, the concert streaming, the appearances on TV, the new costumes, the 3d models, the merch, etc., all of which would be extremely difficult for the talents to do on their own, if not impossible. I don't see how making agreements with the venues, with the streaming sites, with the TV media, making new models which I do not believe cost the talents anything, providing areas and equipment for 3d streams and for recording, handling the design and production of merch, etc. does not count as supporting the talent. And that's only the things we are able to see. Yes, this increases the visibility and marketability of the character/IP, and perhaps that is the main goal of this, but that does not mean it does not benefit the talent as well. The two aren't mutually exclusive; heck, I'd say they're mutually inclusive: Anything that helps the character helps the talent, and vice-versa.
@@Psyche_TH found the hololive hater here. even coco/kson said on her stream that the main reason she leave hololive was because she wants to do "more" in her stream that might cross some youtube line like early asacoco...but since hololive continually growing and become big, they need to put some line and that kinda restrain her creativity so she decided to leave even though she was hololive top earner by miles at that time do more research if you want to hate some company...im sure cover is no saint but just dont blindly hate them either if you dont have some facts and just use your biased opinion
A VTuber Talent Agency is an amazing idea. The problem is that they've put themselves in a weird middle ground where they act like a talent Agency, but want the brand recognition of a Management Company. The whole benefit of a Talent Agency is that you have your big names, but then you have hundreds or thousands of small names too. That way you bundle the big and small names together. Big names get better rates then they would alone, and the small names also benefit from having an agency take away a lot of work they'd otherwise be doing themselves. As a result big names have a reason to stay, and small names become loyal to the agency that's helping them grow. Management Company's work with way smaller rosters because they own the talent IP. Since VShojo doesn't own their talent's IP, they don't benefit at all from having a small roster, and that smaller roster doesn't really benefit the vtubers either. If they want to work out long term they need to open the floodgates and let in A LOT more vtubers.
@mushmush Mythic talent agency is a good example of how a talent agency should work. They launched with like 12 big names and then let in a large number of talents of various sizes.
I mean, I know silver vale left probably because of how useless they were during the Hogwarts drama, and Veibae said its just because of money. But Nyanner's leaving too was outside of my expectations. I wouldn't say she left because of drama, but man, how bad was the contract that even an OG like Nyanners left. I mean, most of the members of Vshoujo don't really need to join an org, they are pretty well off without it.
Maybe her contract has not changed a lot since she joined? Good contract in the beginning, poor now I mean, if you stay in a company for N years and your salary, position and benefits are still same and you are not happy with it, I would search for a new job and then quit in the current one or in their case be a freelancer (ofc if you know you can make at least a little more money, she can) Is just my guess
I think Hogwarts was more of a reinforcement of something that she probably already believed about the company, that vshojo won't do jack shit. That epiphany moment would've happened during Nux or right after.
@@fwiffo thinking about it like that, then damn, the new contracts they were given were really just THAT bad. yep, wouldn't be shocking if another talent drops them soon
@@fwiffo it's probably a combination of all of the above. Vshojo just seems so incompetent and hands off most of the time, it probably wasn't worth the effort. Also, I kind of disagree with the Nux thing not being a factor, even a little. It kind of opened a lot of people's eyes to how the Vshojo girls operate, which is self oriented and so willing to backstab a friend who has helped them when they were starting up.
Unfortunately imo Vshojo is in a unrecoverable downward spiral. Even if Vshojo changes their recruitment strategy who in their right mind would want to sign up for Vshojo auditions when they fucked up so bad the first time? The scale of their auditions controversy which led to the Nux drama soured the well of potential new applicants since not only did they waste everyone's time they also ended up harming innocent applicants due to the data breach. Trust in Vshojo is at an all time low.
And then they just brought on an already-established streamer who was already friends with a bunch of the members. They may as well hang a sign on their door that says "Don't bother applying"
@@fwiffo You can't deny its a bad look to host open auditions and then just hire someone who is practically in the group already. It makes it seem like you'd have a better chance trying to get into an actual corp. VShojo gets held to a different standard because they operate completely differently. Niji/Holo invest a ton of money creating original characters/models and finding streamers who are good fits for them, VShojo seems more like "bring your own model/IP, sign this, and we'll give you a cut of merch sales"
@@fwiffo I never said they only hire friends, all I did was agree that the whole audition thing was a bad look, no amount of defensive paragraphs will change that, it just is what it is. Please don't tag me in any more of your novellas thx
@spearofneptune5896 They gotta do more than just debut Henya to change my mind about the company trajectory. I'll patiently wait to see how things turn out in the future but my overall thoughts are still largely the same.
Say what you want about Hololive back in the day but considering how they've done better in mitigating drama and preventing drama, Hololive's business model is the best of the large ones at this point. Niji doesn't nurture their talents (The failure and gradual graduation of Niji ID is due to lack of support and bad business practices, compared to Holo ID where it can stand on its own instead of being "budget EN") outside of Golden Gooses like EN (Luxium) and Vshoujo can't offer anything to let their big names stay. Freedom schmeedom, but if y'all suck at managing and choosing your talents it falls apart, and Hololive isn't as "restricted" as people say nowadays.
I don't want to be mean, but I think for Vshojo having Silvervale, Veibae, and Nyanner leave in exchange for Henya, Geega, Kuro, and Matarakan was a great trade and the best thing that happened. It seems like Vshojo is trying to pick people who are not just talented but would mesh well with their existing talents. The previous members have traits that worked against cohesion with its members. It's a group that has been learning and growing from it's mistake and experience to be something better than expected. The same cannot be said of Nijisanji though...
I think the problem is, when Vshojo started, it wasn't really meant to be the central focus, the company wasn't the entity. The company was very clearly someone (Gunrun, I guess) identifying that there was a group of very successful Vtubers who were all close friends, but all independent. The girls already existed, they already were playing together, they already liked eachother, and the company was someone else saying "Hey, you people all like one another, why not band together and make an org that helps raise all of you up together". It was basically a glorified Twitch Stream Team, which are (or were) functionally the same thing just without the monetary aspect. You join, you host/raid members, you interact and support and raise everyone in the group up together. Simple premise. The problem is money. The company exists not because of the girls, and not because of their success, but because of their RELATIONSHIP with one another. And so if the company stops working, or money gets between it, the people will just say amongst themselves "We already make money, and we still have our relationship, so what do we need a contract for?". If the company or the contract doesn't add value to the relationship, then all it does is make everyone involved miserable because its' like sand getting in the cracks. It just grates and annoys and irritates, and it causes people who wanted to be close, to stop being close.
VShojo demonstrated how you bounce back from bad publicity. 9 months ago, many thought they were in trouble but made good decisions that paid off. In comparison, Niji has had years of built up criticism come crashing down on them when the rumors being a black company went from speculative to CONFIRMED by their own hand.
I don't think he's that petty. When the camera is off at least. They used to be his friends and he's a good person. He'd probably still feel bad for them. Me on the other hand.... I still hate them for what they did to him and I apprecciate seeing them fall apart.
I feel for Haruka, she just got into Vshojo not long ago. She has a dedicated fan base so hopefully she’ll be fine. I think the company needs to look to hire different people, maybe look at streamers that bring something unique to the company rather than a massive following first and foremost.
she'll be fine like the rest of the members. got to remember all of these members were successful indies long before they joined with the exception of nazuna.
Haruka still has a lot to gain from joining Vshojo unlike the girls that have left(any growth they would have had from just being in the same group has already been made) as a newer member the best thing she can do I Collab like crazy with the remaining members of Vshojo she wants to Collab with and just wait out this storm(until her contract expires) maybe in a year or two Vshojo will be in a better place than it is now hopefully, and if not Haruka can also jump ship.
I think they just screwed up from the start by not going at it too professionally. By making it a sort of friends thing they likely put unprofessional people in positions where its awkward to remove them from without hurting friendships. They have a huge history of drama and stuff caused by stuff being played too loose. Nux thing, the Hogwarts thing, the announcement of silvervale and vei leaving while they were live. All these things are stuff that management should be controlling.
@@LCJammer and even then, it's only *nazuna* that wasn't established before vshojo (or in this case that is directly owned by vshojo iirc). She is far from a rookie and arguably has more of a diehard fanbase than the others.
@@bonogiamboni4830 Nazuna would have been fine regardless of the route she took; she left Hololive with one of the most diehard fanbases over a million strong. As far as I'm aware, Froot is the only one who _truly_ debuted as a part of Vshojo and didn't just bring in an already established fanbase. _Technically_ there's also Hime when it comes to debuting as a _Vtuber,_ but considering how she practically never streams using her vtuber persona, she's barely even a real member.
I think the thing you brought up about the auditions meaning something is their wasted opportunity. Like, their business one would assume would be: 1-Hire already successful talents. 2-Grow the brand's name thanks to those talents while helping them grow themselves. 3-Use that growth and name to start "seeding" new talents that can gain clout from the first ones through collabs and brand power before it's too late and the first ones leave. 4-Continue with your new established creators with maybe different contracts (IP Negotiation etc) that were born under your brand so when the first ones leave you are already established as a recognizable and reliable brand of talent production. I feel they stopped at point 2 and trusted too much the "loyalty" that the girls could've had without realizing that it is very naive
At this point it seems the only good og member of Vshojo is Zen, who isn't even all that involved all the time, keeps her distance, keeps her privacy, just streams. I don't know there might be drama that I haven't heard about but she seems okay.
@@ivansyomkin2156 I don't think Mouse has done anything really but I do remember she said or did something during the Nux Fiasco, just not exactly what
@@un_id5775 People make mistakes. I hate how the internet acts as if one mistake (even a bad one) determines your whole personality and automatically means you are bad.
@Ivan Syomkin the vshojo girls were known for drama before they even joined vshojo, mouse and zen are the only ones I had never heard of being in drama before vshojo they aren't hated because of one thing
@@ivansyomkin2156 True. I mean she did sincerely apologize to Nux. And it seems that both of them aren't keeping against each other. However the damage was done. Vshojo's aren't allow to collab with Nux anymore, which is why that drama was stupid on so many levels. Of an, "ok, we collab, appreciation of a PSA video" to "1 vs 1 sensitively offended of a PSA" to "all vs 1 unintentional attacks of an uploaded important PSA during that time". its so dumb.
Part of the issue, I think, is that even if VShojo wants to become an org-first kind of organization, they would need to make a significant overhaul to their branding. VShojo has pretty firmly made their presence on the scene known as a place for Coomer baiters, which makes it hard to compete for sponsors against companies that promote casual or idol branding.
They did box themselves into a corner there, but it comes with the territory of choosing Vtubers with borderline NSFW content, so it's all on them in the end.
The thing that tells me how "not worth it" Vshojo is now is that Nyanners left. Nyanners is a founding member. Silvervale leaving was expected. Veibae leaving wasn't, but it's whatever. But, a founding member leaving tells me that something is going on in the company to warrant leaving.
To add to it, it was in short succession to Silver and Vei leaving Vshojo too, meaning whatever is going on is definitely not good. My guess is that what Veibae said implies that finances aren't really being handled well and the contract is looking like a bad deal to some of the talents.
I think VShojo had always been like the one agency that was top 3 alongside Niji and Holo. But after seeing so little interactions between its members, it's pretty obvious that they are all very anti-collab in a sense that inevitably causes leaving of talents like now. Another way to avoiding this kind of issue happening again is just have more activities or events with your talents and have them befriend each other and not leave them with their own ways.
@@ElliotKeaton Well I guess that is how they wanted to differentiate then so be it. At least their newer talents now has their Avatar personally made so maybe it's changing.
I think Nyanners leaving is a bigger deal than you made it out, since she is one of the foundational members. She’s along the same lines as Mouse and Mel. Like imagine if Miko or Suisei left Hololive, and what that would signal for the future of the company. The fact that they couldn’t offer her enough to keep her is a sign that VShojo is a living corpse.
Main problem of VShojo is they dont own the Vtubers IP, maybe i am wrong but only 3 members are original. Mean the girls can leave with no damage at all. Like in hololive when Rushia was let go and join VS they create new IP and people knew, but she can say who she is because they will sue her.
@@ElliotKeaton not really as much as big coco was she is not comparable to such miko/suisei/sora/peko leaving, the impact way too big, for some they are the face of holo, coco never was viewed as such
The large company can't do "we let our staff do what they want" in 99% of cases. It needs direction, which includes some restrictions as well. Hololive as a company has clear set of rules, which makes them a reliable partner for talent and other companies that want to do business together.
Here's the thing, they shouldn't be a company. They should just be a group of streamer rather than being a company because there's some expectation from company, such as protective of their talent and employee, and they just couldn't provide it.
Well, a few months later and i consider swapping out Vei and Silver for Henya and Geega to be a major trade-up. I've also noticed that since those old members left, the current ones have been meshing and collabing and getting along and feeling a lot more like a team than before
VShojo was most definitely a clique. I called it the 'Nyanners extended universe'. Isn't necessarily evil to make it an exclusive club but.... It was very bad business from the VShojo side. Once that clique loses its luster, then ya have nothing. I legit never even understood WHY they did that open audition thing in first place when they were never going to hire anyone from it. People talk about the Nuxtaku situation, but really that just surface level of the drama. The reality was, I saw so many indie Vtubers excitingly do the VShojo audition considering VShojo was what inspired em in first place.... And yet everyone got brutally rejected. All those indie Vtubers now are doing successful on their so, it was only VShojo that got hurt in rejecting em. If VShojo wants to continue, they gonna need to do a real audition this time. No more Super Clique, hire randos who have potential like all the Vtuber companies.
That's because they only wanted the big names, see Vshojo doesn't have any former streamers that know how to grow a business either on Twitch or UA-cam. All the other big streamers had been big for awhile. I'm not even sure why Zen joined, Buffpup and RoseDoodle and all the others that had been around didn't want to join if there was no long term benefit. Nyanners and Vei and silvervale to a degree were brand new and needed guidance, Mouse had been around but up until 2020 had always been a small streamer as she didn't do it for making money but to socialize. It was a hobby of hers until she started taking responsbility at home. Melody definitely needed someone to assist her with Legal as a e cam girl she's basically screwed otherwise, no one would give her the time of day for anything remotely high level reputation. Hie did it as something to do but she wasn't used to streaming to such a large audience right away. There is a learning curve she needed. Froot has done all right but she's a moderately prolific artist. She could, similar to Ina or Sana pivot her business back to illustrations and make models for games a and VTubers quite easily.
@@fwiffo wha.... Why would they hire 5k people? Normally it's 5 per 'gen'. They never debuted a new 'gen' from the audition. Like I said, having the audition be pointless was only bad on VShojo. Cus if they did get a new generation hired, these 3 people leaving wouldn't of been as hard of a blow that it was. HOPEFULLY new audition / new generation is on the horizon. Without it, VShojo would actually in danger of collapse.
When vshojo started I thought they would open with the handful of large vtubers to start and debut new ones as they went on. They should really start debuting new original members
Wow, I'd somehow completely missed all the stuff about people leaving Vshojo. I did always think Vshojo's business model seemed pretty limited in terms of revenue avenues, unless they take a cut of the profits from the talents like traditional agencies do, but in that case, how would all these big indies even benefit from joining? There's probably stuff I'm not considering, but all this does seem to give some merit to my initial thought process.
Originally it was networking, with them socializing and becoming friends before joining - The simple question is when was the last time you saw someone NEW on a Vshojo stream?
It's probably a harsh situation on the business side because the organization received quite a lot of seed money to grow the brand, and I don't think anyone feels they're showing enough professional ambition on that front. Some of the merch has been below Nijisanji-tier and Niji isn't known for consistently good merch.
09:40 Pretty most if not all the girls ij Vshojo made sure keeping their IP was part of the contract, I mean they were all(mostly) preestablished Vtubers so they had little reason to give away their self made IP, it also makes sense because they decided to make Vshojo together on the idea of talent freedom, all their doing now is using that freedom to leave the company legally because they feel Vshojo no longer benefits them, more power to them i say, amd hopefully Vshojo will notice this and consider amending their contracts soon so they wont lose even more talents.
@@edenromanov Froot was an illustrator before she became a VTuber. She designed her own model originally. She also designed Hime's as well. Yes Froot is Hime's mama. I'm not sure how Froot got recruited but I think it was largely due to Hime talking to her about it, but she's the resident artist / Apex player. She's Ollie levels of obsessed into Apex Hime owns her own model and she even used it in order to audition into hololive (She has a video on her own channel dating from the same time as the HoloEN auditions were called) - at the time she called the character Tokyo mew mew girl - Hime Hajime came about later and it's actually a really dirty slang term. No way she could ever collab with any japanese person. It's really that bad of a term.
IMO, the reason is Occam's Razor. Management agencies and talent firms give people connections and resources for a cut. When the talent outgrows the agency, it makes sense to go independent, financially and for the freedom. No matter how good a job is, no one wants a boss. I truly think the answer is real simple, the same reason anyone changes a job or company, just moving on with life. Wish them all the best.
All I'm gonna say is that if Hime Hajime leaves VShojo, its absolutely over. She's the breadwinner of VShojo, she brings in the money and the views, she's VShojo's version of Hololive's Gawr Gura. If she were to leave it'll be completely unsalvagable. I hope my oshi Hime Hajime doesn't leave VShojo. I love Hime Hajime.
Just in case, this comment was purely satirical, I know she streamed only twice last year, how tf is she sposed to be the breadwinner of VShojo. Despite that I still find Syd-… I mean Hime’s irl form very entertaining.
when they joined Vshojo got them 70/30 split on twitch subscriptions, and vshojo took a share of brand deals and merchandise. But now EVERYONE is getting 50/50 it's probably not worth giving up that share. Also Mouse hasn't resigned yet, if she leaves, that's it, not only is she their biggest star, she's also their biggest cheerleader.
I feel like Mouse and Melody ARE Vshojo. If they leave then it is absolutely over. Zen too! I think that if Vshojo wants to keep recruiting high value and well established talents then they need to start brining more opportunities for their talents. They need more concerts, special merch, convention appearances, more of the stuff that agencies do. They need some big name collabs that an indie could never negotiate. They need to provide services that an indie could never get on their own. If they don't then they are just kind of circling the drain.
Sounds like you're comparing apples & oranges here.... speaking from a business perspective, a talent _"factory'_ is going to be a very different business model to a talent _agency_ or collective. From my limited knowledge, the large orgs that you're comparing VShojo with actually hire performers to fill Vtuber characters that the company itself creates & manages, like an actor on a TV show. And like TV, the performer doesn't own the rights to that character so they can't take it when they leave. On the other hand, VShojo sounds like a talent agency... agencies _partner_ with established talent to manage the business side of things on their behalf (like an actor's agent or gaming streamer org - they source sponsorship opportunities, negotiate with merch vendors, etc). But importantly, they have little to no say in the creative elements of the Vtuber's business... it's a business partnership rather than an employment relationship. When you look at it in this context, the fact that some Vtubers didn't renew their contract with VShojo isn't alarming or indicative of the same issues as it might in other organisations. Formal business relationships end all the time... maybe the talent has outgrown VShojo's capacity to offer value, maybe expectations or targets weren't met, maybe they had a falling out. But I certainly wouldn't call unrenewed contracts a death knell for VShojo... it's a fundamentally different business.
I no longer watch vtubers but I just wanna study their business model and see how the general public attention towards any vtubing company changes over time, be it constant or totally annihilated
Question for you: what made you stop watching vtubers? Its pretty clear that the vtuber boom is stopped and I'm trying to get as many point of testimony from people that got out of it.
Totally annihilated i don't think so, but my prediction they'll go back to become a niche in broader anime world. The vtubers industry is still quite strong at least in Japan and SEA (or Indonesia for me) idk about in the west but Vox's outfit reveal during live was still had tens of thousands view i guess is still strong as well
cant wait for silicon valley types to try going into vtuber business, maybe another FaZe situation perhaps? Snoop Dogg is now a vtuber? That shit sounds like it'd be so entertaining.
@@apolloisnotashirt I mean... let's be real here, Vshojo IS the FaZe of vtubing. A company that only get people already big to soak up their clout and produce nothing in return.
@@Pers0n97Count me in. stopped watching vtuber clips also skipped holofes and other stuff too.. Feels like vtubers getting more into controversies nowadays though thats not the reason i stopped watching them maybe it was boredom
What worries me is they took an 11 mil funding round last year. From an investment standpoint if i saw a company or startup, in a volatile space like entertainment, that i just put 11 mil into lose a number of talented members that make up part of its brand, I would be very worried. The business model needs to be fundamentally changed or revisited. If it wants to be a creator first company that's fine, but you need to be operating like a horse stable, Sure you have a bunch of horses that are legends in their own right, but you need to rear new talent too preferably before your old winners have to be put down and turned to glue. While your old winners are in their prime you use them to build up your stable rep and income so you can reinvest those winnings into building something bigger and better. This also allows you to take a shot at unknowns and see if you can groom them into winners without the worry of losing everything on a bad bet. Otherwise what are you? Just a holding house for people who could otherwise still do as good or better without your help. What unique solution or mode of operation are you offering that makes these talents WANT or HAVE to stay committed to your brand? Whoever came up with their business strategy really skipped the part of business school that talks about employee retention techniques and stratagems as well as retention's relationship to company growth, success and innovation.
Yep, I'm still on my own little boycott of Vshojo because of it and I'm torn. I'm somewhat happy Vshojo isn't doing well, but it will make it harder for me to avoid their content as individual vtubers than as a company
To me personally the way to go is doing what they do now, but scout out up and coming talent, that has a bit of clout, but still has more than enough room to grow. You dont really need to create original characters. Do a whole gen with 3 or 4 people and let them interact with eachother behind the scenes for a while to create a bond and see if they have chemistry before debuting (how Holo does it). Give them freedom, but set some boundaries, atleast on social media. Look at Phase Connect, those girls have a ton of freedom and say/do crazy things, but Sakana always steps in if shit gets too wild and says no to things. And if you have "middle shelf" talent, they will be willing to listen, unlike those they hired who are too big to listen to anybody. Let them collab more with eachother...as it is now, every talent had they own clique outside of Vshojo and there was pretty limited interaction between certain members. Lastly...dont pander to a certain demographic (you know who Im talking about), that woke shit only bites you in the ass...which we clearly saw. The most important thing...defend your talent in time of crisis, dont leave them hanging like Silver...talent needs to trust the company to have their backs.
VShojo always seemed like Gunrun wanted to hop on the vtuber bandwagon, realized that managing talents is actually a lot of hard work and cut it down to being a merch/advertising contract and spin it as "talent freedom." So from my point of view they were already half-assing it out the gate. There's no "saving VShojo" because it is designed to be a low-effort operation and anything that would save them requires effort. Good riddance if it crashes and burns imo, the talents themselves are and will be fine.
I never consider Vshojo as a Vtuber company. Its more like a friend group who kinda starts a business. I mean, Nyanners, Melody and Ironmouse are the founding members who set-up the "company". Nyanners even hangs out with Gunrun on an IRL stream. Its not like Hololive or Vshojo where they are a talent agency who scouts people. With Vshojo, they'll recruit their friends, as seen with Kson and Haruka.
VShojo's recent troubles... aren't as massive as they seem. The reality is that its a group of streamers under a banner that don't collab often,don't really hang out and don't fully support each other. It's a company that connects a bunch of indie streamers more than anything. Nyanners may have left but I'll bet she still collabs with Ironmouse,I'm sure Silver might stream with some of her former brandmates,same with Vei. It's not like anyone graduated.
Haruka, and Mel need a middleman because they uh, need a businessman to run shit for them IMO. Kson and Nazuna probably will benefit by having someone IN AMERICA who speak fluent English looking to market them. And Zen needs a frontperson if they want to stay totally anonymous. Anonymity is actually a selling point of the agency. Froot is an artist and probably needs a middleman? But VSHOJO probably struggles to make money since wrangling streamers is an, unenviable job, and marketing them seems to be going through a bust period. I cannot imagine having no leverage over STREAMERS and trying to get them show up to an event together and ON TIME. So some streamers probably benefit from agencies, but then you have to make an argument for VSHOJO being attractive, and keeping the agency solvent.
I personally wouldn't mind Vshojo as a company failing and die. After the mismanagement of their talents with that nux incident and still wanting to lie about things just to make them look better says a lot about what they are as a company
Once Ironmouse is gone, that is that for Vshojo. It will be like Hololive losing Gura or VOMS losing Pikamee. Once your biggest star is gone, you will struggle to keep fans and you will crumble as a business. I also feel sorry for Nazuna as Vshojo pretty much gave her second chance to experience what she had before and now her senpais are leaving one by one.
I mean i think that hololive can survive the individual graduation of any of their l talents. It all depends of the frequency and circumstances. Remember how much doom and gloom there was around Cocos grafuation and Rushias termination, yet hololive endured. I think that one thing that would actually damage Hololive would be if an entire gen graduated at once, that would worrisome.
I'd say losing Sora or Fubuki would be a bigger example, although saying that Hololive has built up quite a lot of strong pillars now that I think it'd take a batch graduation or a lot in quick succession to really set something like that off, Coco and Rushia leaving set a tremor through the company for an example (both were the company's biggerst earners in terms of super-chats) but the company is still going strong now.
Finally mowtendoo can go back to making cool videos instead of clout chasing weeaboo vtubers who are morally questionable and can in one go destroy the entire progress we've made to get japanese companies to allow us to enjoy japanese media and do collabs
I think that it won't work anyway. Bringing smaller talents won't do much imo because as you've said the girls made the company "popular" and not the other way around. Aside from part of the community going away with the girls there is a problem of them not interracting with eachother. How ofted do they collab within Vshojo? For example in Holo the collabs are pretty often so the new fans are more likely go to the other members aside from the one they saw the first/their oshi. Also they often talk about eachother so there's that as well
Really the only way for VShojo to stop the exodus is to pivot to a traditional talent agency (eg Mythic Talent/Loaded) or go full vtuber agency(hololive/Niji). The former would require them to start providing better services to their talents and the later is just as Nousagi said, start hiring fresh talent
They're better going the way of Mythic and provide both sponsorships as well as merch contacts. This is what they do already so they ight as well just open the flood gates. I don't think going traditional would work for them at this point as people expect them to be about Talent freedom. if they did this in Japan as it is with merch and sourcing sponsorships for small indies it would be huge. There's literally no one in JP doing that as far as I know. With the number of companies serving these markets it's about their only chance at survival. If you look at a company like UwU market, whom you only ever hear about on Things VTubers Say news, they are actually a huge company with over a 100 Vtubers they do merch for, and Mythic is going to pick up a lot of decent sized VTubers in the next year same with UTA for sponsorships.
According to Silvervale when she joined, vshojo doesn't get a cut from subs or donos. We know they handle merch and networking such as the time they made Kson pay for everything for her 3D live (this isn't weird) after helping her set everything up. The issue I think is their merch game is super weak. Just look at the stuff in their store, it's so mundane compared to what other companies and indies sell, and the talents don't even seem to care about their merch where other talents seem so excited about creating merch for their fans. Companies like Hololive make talents pay to have their mech made whereas in vshojo everyone has roughly the same stuff in the store with different skins and rrat but I don't think they're emotionally or financially invested in it. So there's no way to sweeten the dono/sub split, and VShojo talents own all of their IP because they paid for everything related to their IP, so I think it's hopeless unless you're Melody who has been burned without legal support or Kson who has been ripped off trying to make her own merch or similar. Even Nazuna is selling mousepads on her roommate account now.
We have no idea if it's hit Vshojo but theere when the Silicon Valley Bank when under (Collapse similiar to what happened to banks in 2008) it crushed supposedly about 60% of US venture capital
I thought about this a lot, and if you're someone like VShojo, you need to add value that the talents couldn't add themselves. VShojo tries that a bit, e.g. by having booths at conventions, but it's too small. But I'm thinking of stuff that actually grows the brand, e.g. VTuber awards, highlighting smaller creators (as you mention), making hololive-style IRL concerts, have the talent travel to do IRL collabs, organize the talent voice-acting in game hololive-style, make budget for bigger lore drops, etc. The thing is, none of them are necessarily easy, or will even make you a lot of money, but they give talent a reason to stay other than "money". Like, does someone at VShojo know for every single of their talents "what are the 3 biggest things wants to do but can't atm" and has tried to solve for it? I'm fairly certain in hololive the managers of the talents know this and give updates from time to time, and try to make stuff happen. Like, yes, there's stuff that the org wants, but I bet it goes in both directions. I've worked in the esports industry, with multiple professional players, and like, VShojo strikes me as one of these incredibly well-funded LA teams that just always buy the best players, do a couple of things to check a few boxes, and throw money at players until they die. I've seen this so often in the industry, I've seen the players benefit, of course, but there's so much potential, and so little *stuff* being done it actually makes me annoyed. With that said, I'm not entirely sure if that's enough, because working with already successful people is always dangerous, because successful people have the option to say "no" to you asking them for shit.
That's what i am saying, They just out grew an agency. What is Vshojo providing that they can't do themselves? They have seen their Indie friends kill it being indie and are thinking they can do the same.. and they can. What does Vshojo provide? Merch... It's much easier for vtubers to make their own merch now. Sponsorships? They are way easier to get on your own if your as big as nyan or Vei. Vshojo is providing nothing new that they can't get themselves without having to pay an agency a cut. It's just common sense to leave if you can do everything on your own, i mean why take such a pay cut when you can do everything yourself.
False talked about the what you get thing last year, where at least in the past, joining Vshojo would get you more growth, in addition to the contact with sponsors, some support, ect. But as you said, they can get all of the things Vshojo would get them elsewhere now. Vshojo is just a talent agency, but specifically for Vtubers. The problem is that now normal talent agencies are taking on Vtubers, so established talents don't need to go for Vshojo anymore. And they all have their own circles now, and unlike in a more traditional agency the talents are launched together, and would spend time getting to know each other and build chemistry ahead of launch, Vshojo talents are brought on solo, already with their own friend groups and stuff going on. So if another talent agency can offer more than Vshojo, there's no reason they wouldn't leave once their contract was up. Vshojo have no leverage against their talents. If Vshojo is going to stay relevant and survive, they need to find a way to find leverage against their talents to incentivize them to stay. And as you said, develop their own talents like other agencies. Even if they give the talents the option to buy their IPs, it will give something to have at the table and also help breath fresh life in.
fr. it would be hard to compete against mythic now if we talked about sponsors just look at all the big brand that worked with mythic. you can just go indie and have mythic manage you
Vshojo only selling point is networking and collaborating to build each talents individually. But I haven't seen them work together in ages. I wouldn't be surprised if the big time talents told management they don't want small indies cause they view them a competition instead of someone come in and build the group up together with collaborative quality content.
@@chuu3u It hired what seemed like a friend group. Publicly it seems some drifted away from being friends which happens then the contract renewal seems to not have been good in their eyes so they left. You have other groups of VTuber friends that aren't under an agency but seem to support each other better than VSjojo did. Some if not most don't join agencies due to what is happening with VShojo. The thing is once you get big enough you already have connections and know people who work on the stuff your brand does so it just is an unneeded middle man.
This video video kind of aged badly. But there's still the question if the business model is sustainable. We'll see this year. If Henya, Kuro and Matara leave, it'll mean VShojo provides good service to join but not to stay.
I could be wrong but given that Vshojo was backed by venture capital they were able to off their talents very generous contracts (I think they only retained merchandising rights from the talents). Now after the collapse of SVB and the death of venture capital they would have to get their money elsewhere presumably their generous contracts no longer became so, perhaps taking a cut of all a talents revenue where before there wasn't. The fact Vshojo needs its talent more than the talent needs what Vshojo offers is its Achilles Heel.
vshojo is neither hololive or nijisanji. what is it trying to be if not a real agency with real resources at their disposal? the biggest flaw is trying to create a “super group” of established vtubers instead of building up and cultivating talent. this way you create talent not keep hopping to different talents.
There is one ace in the hole that Vshojo has that, while it wont SAVE the company, will at least keep it somewhat stable: The talents situations. Ironmouse's condition, Melody's Adult streams, and Zen's text to speech model for example. The girl's are at this point able to go indie and receive more income, however because of how unique their situations are, they are more or less glued to the company as their own support for streaming and connections to support their ideas. Vshojo CAN recover, based on what we definitely know, the talents are leaving based on the contract, and aren't leaving from in fighting or position abuse. The talents know how to handle and support themselves, communication has shown to be lacking, but that's not toxic its rather natural honestly, that in a friend group you connect with certain others more. What the company Needs is to step back, examine what's wrong internally and externally, and use their own platform to improve and polish.
Yep let me tell you For span of 3 years, Vtubers are collapsing little by little. These dramas are the stains that will discolor everything in this industry
I think it may be compared to the kpop boom that we saw in the 2017-2020 in the West. I think its going to inevitably calm down at some point but probably will now be an option people may look to for streaming.
@@thetruth9952 honestly I firmly believe many things that got popular during COVID are going to lose that massive explosion of fans as more casual fans lose interest. With everything open again, people are not going to be online as much as they were before
Sorry I just don't see that being the case, not sure where you are looking. Growth in the western market has stagnated a bit, but concurrent viewers have not gone down on average. In JP you have people like Marine streaming a talking collab to 50,000+ people while hitting a more mainstream anime audience, and Suisei not far behind. Niji on average has gone down a bit, but they are spreading their viewers amongst too many talents, though many are still seeing growth in their viewership.
@@thetruth9952 Idk why it would seem "wacky" when vtubers are literally just normal streamers with 2d avatars, its super famous in japan, even more currently. Its like saying "oh im a youtuber", it could be said synonymously with being a vtuber in japan.
12:35 "How do we save VShoujo [theoretically]?" Well, i guess getting a certain Kettle under their brand with possibly owning her new IP might be one thing they could do...
I think vshojo could do like something similar to other agencies where they have adoption style audition and have an option for a traditional style audition. Because people that aren't vtubers will try to audition for a big company.
I don't hate Vshojo for this practice. There are so many great Vtuber talents nowadays across the globe and even with 3 talents leaving, the Vshojo name still holds weight. Whoever fills these 3 spots will bring along their audience and gain many more. Vei, Silver and Nyan will still do great since they keep their identity.
The problem is getting those talents now. The only talents available will be small one's that ca't get merch deals. There are a lot of companies that offer merch programs for smaller VTubers, such as UWU Market or sponsoship programs like Mythic talent or UTA. The only market for Vshojo is small talents, but they didn't even bother to show anyone from 2021 because none of the big names showed up and they didnt do any auditions in 2022 which they wshould have done right after Kson joined would have been the best thing. Vshojo's PR with Anime Expo was at the highest it had ever been.
Nice, he even ended like Moist lol. They can use the same model but for pre-existing lower and mid tier talents. Once they hit a certain size, cut them loose and charge them an exit fee.
Nah. The real reason is vtuber industries already reach its peak. Everyone knows that. Too many new vtuber each week and they all do same shenanigans sh*t that makes vtuber is not really exclusive anymore. Too many drama and toxicity that make it lose its charm. Also the world already turns back to normal. Thanks for this 6-7 years for entertain us.
@@fwiffoYour last paragraph is what it think. They should now build the business upon their friendship. Maybe Hime get this idea from Garnt and try to recreate Trash Taste in her own version.
I do agree with you. They need to have unknown talents that are Vshoujo IP's. That's pretty much the only way they will get to work this out. They could still add some known names, maybe by having one known and another 2 or 4 new ones, original IP's, for them per gen.
thb when ever i see Iron mouse, Kson etc i never think that i watch a VShojo member. While i was listing to your comments about what VShojo could do, I thought of greating events under thiere brand with the Talants could alos help build a bigger bond to thiere talants.
Unless they become more traditional vtuber agencies who recruit new and not well know talents and gets cuts of their profits for getting them started I can't see them surviving. They almost deserve it for wasting the Vtuber boom and not expanding and having so many top talents and watched them leave. Even then this is still like step one for them. They have to fix their shit behind the scenes and use whatever fame they have left to survive. Losing Nyanners after losing the other two is a big hit, but they can survive. They just have to do something before its too late.
It makes me sad that even when presented with a hypothetical question, some people in chat (much like the people on twitter we mock so much) immediately go for the scorched earth answer. "How would you save VShojo from collapsing?" => "We don't, F them" / "We don't, let them burn" / "Disband it" *That's the mindset that the people wanting to ban anime from the US have.* "If it's not for us, I hope it dies." It's the same kind of hypocrisy we call out over and over from the "twitter freaks". The only thing I'm always sure of is that there's always people on our side that are just like the ones we are arguing against. Guess the positive way to look at it is that the ones against us are all just people too, so we should think of them as such.
I mean, let's be real, Vshoujo as a company has been kind of a joke since the beginning, with how bad the support has been for it's talents in multiple areas. Coupling that with their incompetence in dealing with some serious situations they ended up in, at this point they would need to make a declaration of change of intentions big enough to repair their from the start weak image, and I doubt that's gonna happen. So yeah, "We don't, let it burn" is not an out there opinion to have. Personally, I don't care since I know most of their members already have a way to move on after the possible dissbanment of the company, and the ones that don't (Mel has admitted to need something like Vshoujo cus of her more "spicy" content) I just hope they find their own way.
Vshojo isn't really a talent agency though, they just centralize behind the scenes services. Vshojo does things that all the girls leaving are going to have to pay out of pocket for now. So either they weren't doing those things very well, or they tried to start switching their model to a more traditional talent agency. So it really doesn't matter if they collapse, in their wake the competent employees will create more sustainable business models with their highly specialized skillsets. Or the demand won't be there and so be it.
"Let them burn", "Disband it". If we assume more members will leave, and we have every reason to do so, then a VShoujo without the big names is nothing but a tainted brand. They already had a bad rep, and losing so many big names will make it worse. At that point, it's simply more cost-effective to start over without all the baggage.
Okay I'm the one who said disband it because: 1. We assume Vshojo is in red line on the money by the looks of many talents preferred going indie and not sticking to the new contract. 2. The brand of Vshojo already reaped some bad reps this past months 3. Vshojo doesn't have the power to control or have bargaining power with the talents. So what can you do? The only possible way is retaining the talents' freedom aspect till it bloom (we can say it doesn't) or start anew. How can they start new way/adapting with traditional way of vtubing while having so many bad reps and no money? Disband and rebrand it, or just like in the video, sell the asset and make new start. There are so many small vtuber corps that already disbanded their brand because...they are short on the money, and Vshojo is in it now until some miracle the talents/management can get sponsorship who willing to inject money to them.
![[HoloCure] WOOPIE v0.7 UPDATE!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pCgC9DedxYw/mqdefault.jpg)
Let's have a little discussion on this thread. Wanna know if you disagree, wanna add on some points, or if you agree at all. And please, lets try to be civil.
My favorite rrat is that at first the contracts were WAY too lenient and the talents made out like bandits, but Gunrun invested the Big Bucks in Silicon Valley and other ventures that came crashing down and now the contracts are dogshit to compensate, so the talents have no reason to stay. I really believe bad business decisions is gonna be VShojos demise this year.
I mean Vshojo is a company that has had some problems cough cough froot cough and a bit too much freedom remember the nux situation you can argue nux was wrong yada yada but you have to admit they threw him to the wolves and the vtubers themselves keep everything the models and merch and everything so vshoujo was running on borrowed time until they decided yeah I’m done bye if they’re offered something more to stay longer and the cherry picking talents like Haruka and no hate to her but still and sorry for my rant😅
This already happened in the UA-cam sphere and is why you dont see many talent agencies anymore like Machinima and shit, because their business model fails once the creator gets too big. Vshojo doesn't offer enough to the talents to make it worth the revenue cut, at least if you're in Hololive you get the chance to do idol activities as well as using their recognizable brand, same applies to Niji but less idol and more creative freedom. I disagree that Vshojo is going to bounce back from this however, it's entirely likely that the girls convince each other to leave the company and go solo, I don't think 3 talents leaving is a coincidence and they probably talked about it a lot between themselves, the likelihood of Ironmouse, K-Son, etc. leaving is high and they would take their massive fanbases with them too.
@@MrAlquimista666 Woah, he did that? Is there proof of that or is this just speculation. I mean, if the contract terms got worse this year compared to last year, of if the company made a loss, it makes sense.
I want to know what snuffy and others think who would be Haruka if Haruka in vshojo didn't exist
This business was like when 3 friends move into an apartment together, and it just ends poorly.
We've seen it many times with most of the network agencies in youtube.
Like all streamer houses, it's clockwork
Thats pretty much it. It was never an agency in the first place. Nyanners, Mousey and Melody created Vshojo company as a representation of them for sponsors, merch deals and other things, and then they recruit their friends along the way.
and everyone's sleeping with the landlord
Thats how Rooster Teeth started and Funimation as well
VShojou: We only hire our friends
Hololive:We only hire top tier
Nijisanji: FUCK ITS BEEN 3 MONTHS SINCE OUR LAST WAVE. HIRE THOSE PEOPLE!!!!
Sir, those are the night janitors.
Nijisanji rping as Guardsman Commissar
"ANOTHER WAVE"
Niji actually: *debuts 4 JP waves in 4 months*
Wactor: Lets hostage some vtuber and blackmail them
Hololive only hires top tier established streamer is wrong tho. Some of the talents they hired have low followings in their previous career, or straight up amateur with almost 0 experience (Subaru & Kobo is the perfect example of this). Hololive, or YAGOO just have a very darn strong BYAKUGAN to see and recruit the talents with best skill & POTENTIAL. They very rarely miss with their recruits.
When I heard about Silvervale and Veibae leaving, I didn't think much off it. Stuff happens, and sometimes people leave. Nyanners leaving too shows me the problem is deeper than I first thought.
@@EndoftheBeginning17 it's not the vtuber boom ending, it's the platform revenue dying. Revenue is down like 60% on youtube per view... it's apparently worse on twitch, since revenue is down, what the brand is doing to get alternate revenue really really matters. It's fine if vshoujo doesn't get you any promotional deals or mech sales when the money rolls in from streaming, but when the streaming money dries up and vshoujo isn't doing anything to promote you or get you alternate sources of revenue, then its a big problem. The girls leaving have been with vshoujo for a long time, i suspect they've been told "we're new, we're working on it" for years, and they were content because the income was good anyway, to wait for the alternate sources of revenue.
well streaming revenue is in the trash right now, so the lack of alternate forms of income really starts to hurt, and if i were a vshoujo talent who's been told for years they're working on it, i'd probably leave as well. i mean why stay if they can't get you merch and promotional deals?
The cooperate management (mis management) of vshoujo has been out in plain sight for years now. you'll see more talents leaving soon too.
Why doesn't this happen to hololive? because hololive has worked really hard to build up promotional deals and merch sales. Streaming income can go in the trash and those girls are all still swimming in the cash. Hololive's recent financials claimed they were making (hololive itself) almost 1.2 mil per talent in NET revenue, that is pure earnings after splitting earnings with the girls and paying staff... 1.2mil per talent. think about that one. they're making far more money from merch sales and promos then they do from streaming. So much so they're talking about making their own streaming platform so they don't need to share 30% with youtube. you don't do that if you're worried about streaming income, you do that when all your alternate forms of income dwarf what you make streaming.
@@arizona_anime_fanthat is an excellent analysis of the situation. Spot on!
Fck Nyanners.
But Vale leaving and Bae is big.
Veibae deff though has been wanting to go solo for a while esp after getting with soda and seeing how successful he is without any agency's and Soda's connections can help her a lot too
@@arizona_anime_fan Jesus….. almost 1.2M per Talent! But it makes sense if you think about it. They make the boys and girls work for it. Singing classes, dancing classes, offline events, merchandise ideas, projects, voice acting, live concerts, and minimum streaming hour per week on top of all that.
@@MenrvaS people don't realize how much offline work these Hololive girls do. Some are busier than others but if you look at their offVtubing activities, they are no different than your regular singers, idols, celebrities, whatever you want to call it. The difference is that they also streaming
VShojo's biggest problem is not understanding how to run a business in the first place lol It banks on big people but honestly gives them no incentive to join except for "freedom to say what they want". Although that's where many of their issues and dramas stemmed from is they represent a brand and would say some terrible stuff for their image. There's a reason for PR speak and most of the talents clearly weren't gonna fit into a corporate space. The whole thing made absolutely no sense. It was literally just a clique.
This is also a reason why people need to stop saying talents should quit and start their own agency. That's a dumb idea because you're burdening them with so much more than what they already do. If you want an organization like OTK(indies coming together type orgs) you gotta really plan it, have good staff, and a collective understanding on how to run a business.
I agree! Freedom is nice, however too much freedom for your staff can spell death of a group. Hence all the drama that the girls kept making, really ruined the brand image. And them leaving basically says a lot, to not only the group as a whole but also the individuals of who there were. Very toxic.
Isnt Vshojo the same as OTK? I never consider them as a Vtuber agency since they mostly a bunch of friend creating a group.
@@jeppyjep yeah but unlike otk who all came together and were involved in the bts stuff, vshojou are more divided in the manager side and the talent side.
To make an example in otk while they have their own streamer career they also are involved in other stuff (brands deals, merch, collabs etc) much more than vshojou seems to be.
In vshojou case the way that was formed made it so that the manager side and the talent dont interact (?) That much, like most other vtuber companies the vshojou girls are managed by the company. In otk is the other way around
@@Dustwj842 Exactly this, and despite some controversies and incidents, its been the most successful out of the orgs that have been organized like this...at least for now. It all depends on if they can keep momentum or sell out like past groups have.
This is why a corporation to cover (read: guide) you on your lapses is a strength in itself, regardless of any subjective feelings you have towards organisation-grown Vtubers.
Case in point - Rmb Gundou Mirei? Although she's still worryingly suspended after 5 weeks, the heat has been taken off her because Anycolor basically put themselves stage front and ushered her backstage to not say a word further.
If this was VShojo handling the same matter, their "freedom" mentality would have put them through continuous flak until the offender is thrown into a pit of needles to die a slow death.
A lot of people need to realise that a corporation can both shield and bolster your standing, but you too must pay your own dues and respect the powers and processes that keep you in the field, even with IRL work.
So basically VShojo was or still is merely a management firm for already established independent Talents to get better networking and not a production company like Cover or Anycolor who creates their own Talents and manages them until the end.
Once the girls are capable in getting better sponsorship and marketing deals on their own without the help of VShojo’s management, ironically because they helped the girls to connect with the right people initially, it will inevitably run it’s course.
Yeah Vshojo seriously needs to rethink their business model if they don't want to lose more members.
Vshojo company model is nothing new, in the earlier days of youtube with SMOSH, MindCrack, Machinima and going to the newer ones like OTV, Geexplus, Dream Team.
@@edenromanov Actually… I don’t think being a management firm for independent VTubers is such a bad idea.
If they promote themself as such to the general audience, they might even get new talents under their belt who aren’t too keen on joining an actual VTuber agency/company and abandoning their current persona and community that is attached to it, but want the benefit of having a management team that can help you reach even more people and work out better business deals for the future.
The question is if the VShojo Team already sees themselves as such or if they actually thought they were a company like Hololive for example, with talents who would stick with them till the end.
@@edenromanov Honestly their business model is fine. They just need to recruit more talents to they can keep a pool of like 10 or so in circulation. Having a company where people come and go can definitely work.
@@DaMechaTalks _"The question is if the VShojo Team already sees themselves as such"_
Kson described them as exactly that every time she mentioned their business model.
I wonder why Vshojo never thought to market themselves as a springboard in an attempt to mitigate how bad they would've looked when bigger named talents leave, and especially in bulk like this. Why not have leaving as an intended part of the business... like "graduation" for example?
This would have saved them some face at the very least.
Well the Talents never Graduated, they just left the comlany to be an indie.
Because their first wave wasn't even a new group of content creators but already well established ones, even as small as Nyan and Vei were originally they already had a presence in the Vtuber community and creator space.
They shot themselves in the foot for having Mouse, Mel and others be their company's face since it looked more like a group made by successful creators than a stand-alone group that is recruiting talents.
The JP branch didn't help since its more like an adoption center since they haven't gone their way to recruit more talents and seems to be just a place for JP creators to go to after graduating
As the guy mention most of them are established names when they first started Melody was well known for her adult content and collaboration with Nuxtaku vei and Nyanners has been on the internet for years on 4chan and other sites. The only talent they really had homegrown was silver, mouse, and zentreya. Froot and haruka were established indy talent meanwhile the japan branch were former Hololive members which should've help them gain attention especially now since Ironmouse is one of the biggest Vtuber on twitch but yet the company focusing on is selling merch and not really promoting
You've never worked as an agent in your life and I can tell from this statement. VShojo talents are self employed and mostly managed by VShojo. That's the deal and it works as long as both parties are happy, however due to changes internally and externally, the new contracts aren't viable for everyone and as such they've shook hands, walked away from the table and gone their separate ways, that's business, it's how it's always worked. This isn't like a traditional Nijisanji and Hololive situation where they pretty much own you. It's a simple gig, there's nothing wrong with what either party has done, you have just made that up in your head.
I disagree with the idea that Mouse and Mel leaving won't kill Vshojo. Their brand would be SO DAMAGED at that point that I don't see them recovering.
I don't watch them as much as I used to, but I do like most of the girls in Vshojo. No hate, just really disappointed because I thought that the idea of starting the group with multiple already established names had a lot of potential to it and it was all wasted.
As months passed, it would seem they only existed to sell merch. They rarely have collabs, one member can't commit to streaming, they only onboards friends, they mishandled the auditions and doxxing situation, and their JP branch is going nowhere.
Disagree with the first part. While people who don't follow VShojo members probably don't have a good opinion of them, fans of their current talents still hold a positive opinion. I think what Historian is trying is to say is to not piss off their remaining fanbase, especially the ones who are willing to blow money on merch and events.
Mouse leaving alone would kill Vshojo she is one of the Biggest names in the industry. At the start the entire Draw of Vshojo was her melody and nyanners. Being easily some of the most recgonizable None japan based vtubers. VSHOJO sold itself on them and Their assosiation is what drew in other talents like haruka nyanners leaving already has everyone wondering what kind of bullshit is going on behind closed doors being a founding member and one of their biggest original cast if Mouse or mel left Vshojo would not recover and likely lead to a trickle of other cast leaving as well.
@@noctotainlowry9246et's be fair here, Mouse as talented as she was would be nowhere if it weren't for Melody (and Vshojo as an effect), and let's not kid oirselves here, the western vtubing scene blew up because of Melody. Even the JP audiences got a wind of Melody because she was a subject of Hololive's Coco Kiryu (yeah yeah we all know who she is now) morning show at one time. Silver, Vei and Nyan at that tine were only talked about in 4chan's /vt/ but they were brought into a more mainstream audience thanks to Melody and Vshojo.
With that said, it's up to gunrun to make Vshojo a lasting brand with the clout Melody and co had started, so it can still stand even with Melody leaving.
Doesnt Mel have stocks in Vshojo, to a degree that she has say in the company? I doubt she would leave.
With Mousey...tbh the writing is on the wall, the fact that her bestie(Nyanners) left is already a big uphill battle for Vshojo in the negotiations, plus she already is signed to a new and good talent agency, she wouldnt be totally on her own.
@@Phyrrax i am not sure if mel has stock or not as i am not all the savy when it comws to the side of a organization but wouldent all the original founding members have stock given they are the entire reason it is around in the first place?
Relating it to sports, groups like VShojo, Cyberlive, etc. are like talent agencies where they represent the “players” in negotiations with brands, help them with legal and accounting matters, etc.
Where as HoloLive and Niji are like the actual sports teams, where you get drafted, sign a contract to play for that team, you wear that team’s uniform, you get a jersey number, etc. And you can get dropped, traded, or quit the team, at which point you have to turn in your uniform.
I love this comparison, really helps to break down why Vshojo is suffering from this right now and not a company like Hololive would
Big Market teams like LA or NY than Portland or Washington
If we are going with the (I’m assuming American because you said draft) sports team analogies, VShojo is basically the Dallas Cowboys of the VTubers. They’re the hot team with all the pizazz but neither of them had made to even the Conference Finals since 1996
Actually nevermind, VShojo would make the finals faster than the Cowboys
Hololive is a hermetically sealed company. Their talents are recruited then provided with models, characters, etc. While prior experience and popularity can be a large boost, this has never been directly leveraged. It took a while for people to realize their prior identities and it wasn't until council second gen that people started to actively and quickly fishing out who was who. Hololive really was primarily focused on talent and personality, strongly supported by the Hololive infrastructure. The main constraint of Hololive is that you pay for the stability with freedom, though this has improved recently.
Vshojo was a good idea because it was the thing that indie vtubers needed to give them legitimacy to be able to compete with Hololive. It promised this as well as management support and logistical support, but as years went on, the girls realized that the extent of that managerial support wasn't as significant as they expected and that they didn't gain legitimacy either because in their case that came from audience size exclusively as they weren't willing to compromise their personality to become individually brand friendly. This was a large reason they were willing to join a "talent company" like Vshojo, because they promised them they could keep that freedom. But that freedom also meant that Vshojo could not give them legitimacy they hoped for.
What even is legitimacy?
Legitimacy is becoming Tokyo's tourism ambassador. It goes beyond just brand awareness. It goes beyond popularity. It's becoming a household name. Legitimacy is when your family members know who Gura is and not because you told them.
There's levels to that and none of the vshojo girls former, current or future will ever get that in any measure thanks to vshojo. They can only get that with their own viewer numbers. Unfortunately, the more 18+ you get, the more you cuss, the more degenerate you are, the bigger the threshold gets, and vshojo didn't seem to lower that threshold in any meaningful way.
Hololive has ballooned to the point where they have built the image of their own company as well as individual image of each of their talents to where they appear as more and better than they are in reality. That's what a brand can do. People are more likely to buy a product simply because the label has reputation, irrespective of what the quality of the product actually is. There is corelation between product quality and brand quality and if the former lowers significantly for long enough, the latter will also diminish. However, there is a certain buffer that the brand quality offsets. This is why the Hololive girls are getting more freedom now, more opportunities and can be more yabai and cuss more. It's because they, and their company built up that reputation and brand quality to where certain allowances are now available to them.
Vshojo simply isn't providing a service worth the amount they are charging. That's all it comes down to.
Most fans of Hololive fans dont know the VA's identity, real or Imagined
Add to that that Kiara is a troll that keep throwing hints about Gura must have work at Disney during Disney Minecraft Collab and Kiara was to bring "you weren't who I was expecting" (Sena Howard) at there off collab (followed by a few seconds of silence before Gura sighd and says"I dont know what to say about that") buried that bullshit theory😹
Personally I don't think Vshojo is doing bad in terms of promoting their talents, rather than just being tech support. GunRun is extremely good at tech, and always helps out the girls when needed. Nyan leaving was a financial decision, Vei leaving was financially motivated and she's dating Sodapoppin so yeah you can guess where that's going. Silvervale leaving was bc she doesn't view friendships the way others do aka she is more extroverted and wants constant interaction. Vshojo is a supporting pillar for brand deals, projects and potential collabs. Not a massive promotion machine which extends their talents publicity other than a few lore videos which are directed by the talents themselves. A talent joins, gets a pillar in which it supports her projects, gives her contact to potential collaborators which can help her. It's very apparent bc the talents get to keep everything including IP and such.
@@fyiatflyta In terms of talent promotion, I'd say they're doing what they can, which is not to the level of what Hololive does, but I wouldn't say that they are doing a bad job with that necessarily. In terms of stability, vshojo is rather shaky. Their failure to handle controversy properly adds to that.
Again it has been said a million times but Vshojo also just doesn’t DO anything for the talents. Nijisanji release new merch, voice packs, and shit for their talents almost every other week. And Hololive while releasing less merch also organize more events and big concerts for their talents. I literally cannot think of anything Vshojo has done for their talents recently.
They can't even protect their talents.
They threw Nux under the bus for warning people about a serious scam (which the organization did allow, according to reciepts they refused to acknowledge) they'd swept under the rug for months, then permitted their talents to start a harrassment campaign on twitter, then refused to take accountability for it. It went into straight character-smearing territory rather than objective criticism, and only stopped when Nux backed down after he'd cleared his name. Private apologies won't cut it for public condemnation, especially when those people incited their communities to act spitefully towards one of their own.
In that, they showed how they value their reputation more than the wellbeing of indie talents, and are willing to scapegoat and perpetuate troubling standards in their own team just to skirt by that issue.
Then Silver got harrassed for playing a game, only to be met by dead silence from their coworkers and management. The 7 months comment seems out of line, but when you consider that her harrassment online made headlines the fact that no one reached out to her in her own agency must have been pretty disheartening.
Vshoujo may have bad contracts or good ones, but the way they protect their talents - both current and potential - is far too lacking.
fr. if the talent just wanted someone to take care all behind the stuff scene. might as well just join mythical talent and pay them to do stuff for you
@@chaseong9560 I'm so fucking glad there's more people out there that knows Nux was done dirty by Vbitches
The main problem that V Shojo is having right now is the fact that they're supposed to be for the Indies and yet they aren't really supporting them enough to be worth choosing them over a talent agency. Obviously JP will probably stay because V-Shojo JP is actually doing pretty well all things considered but the fact is that before becoming Indies all 3 of them had a large following that they brought over with them. V-Shojo is making power moves but it's staying power is not really changing. JP Mousey and the remaining members are fine but the fact is that it will come to a point where they don't exactly need the support that V-Shojo gives them anymore. The primary problem that's plaguing them is the question of if they are a Talent Agency or a Vtuber Corporation with a Talent Agency on top of that. If they're a Talent Agency they need to start giving more support to the Talents in general for whatever endeavors they need and not going radio silent. If they're a Vtuber Corporation they need to figure out and nail down what makes their contract so unappealing to renew and focus on rebuilding good faith with the Talents Past and New. There are some people whose livelihoods depend on getting a decent paycheck and having fun with friends is just a cherry on top. That's the sort of Niche that V-Shojo has put themselves in, but that brand is currently faltering because of so many people leaving for one reason or another.
Now for Nyanners Silvervale and Veibae it's kinda clear that the reasons they left were for Censorship reasons more than anything else but you can't really fault V-Shojo for having censorship on those members specifically once you've seen their previous history on the Internet to an extent. I think those three were the Three that were most liable to leaving down the line for that reason. Though considering the fact that they were 95% uncensored one has to wonder how bad the Contract really was to make them leave or if they were always planning to at some point? I personally think it was a combination of the two. Veibae didn't really need V-Shojo anymore and kinda wants to do her own thing as an Indie for the best or worst. Which is fine more power to you. It's really Silvervale and Nyanners where the cascade starts taking shape because Silvervale wasn't really defended by V-Shojo where it counted and made the mistake of feeding the Troll which made a massive feedback loop of toxicity that ultimately culminated in her leaving. Nyanners is admittedly one of the ones where it's either solely on V-Shojo or solely on or because of her with no real in-betweens.
One of Niji's big problems is how BAD much of the merch is.
Just following some of my favorite hololive members, COVER does a crap ton for their talents. Artists that make their models, rigging 3D models, new clothing and accessories, idol concerts, music producers to help them write original songs (Gura's Reflect is a perfect example of that), tech support, merch...what is VShojo offering? That's a good question.
What you've described there is Cover working very hard to establish and maintain the *characters/personas/IPs* that they create more or less from scratch; the amount of support that they give to the talent/voice/actor is comparably less. Coco is always the prime example and although it was technically an amicable graduation, a clean break, it is widely known that Cover could and should have done a whole lot more to support her.
@@Psyche_TH Widely known how? Because someone on some board interpreted some words by Kson in a way that fit their "companies evil" mindset? I really want to know, what do you mean by "widely known", because unless you have a video or recording of Kson actually, unequivocally stating so, your "widely known" facts are just "widely believed" conjectures
@@Psyche_TH Should have done more? Cover literally abandoned their biggest market for her, Lost perms to stream some of the biggest games like Genshin, and invited the harassment of an entire country.
What "more" are you asking for?
@@Psyche_TH What do you mean by "widely known"? You mean that a bunch of people you know have that opinion? Even if that were true, Coco was an extreme edge case that drew the ire of an entire country and its government; a country they fully abandoned the effort for. Using her situation as representative of Cover's efforts for their talents is cherry-picking the evidence. The Mana Aloe and Uruha Rushia terminations are significantly better examples to draw from for evidence of Cover's alleged mishandling of talents, but I believe even those are on shaky ground as Cover elucidated reasons as to why those terminations happened. Hitomi Chris is another termination that happened after announcement, but I don't know the background on that.
Not to forget that Cover has maintained the vast majority of their talents on the Hololive side: over the course of around ~four years and introducing ~45 talents (Numbers are off the top of my head; including ID and EN) only five have graduated/been terminated (again off the top of my head: Mana Aloe, Uruha Rushia, Hitomi Chris, Kiryu Coco, and Tsukumo Sana; Not counting the ones from Hololive China). That is certainly at least in part due to Hololive's clout and the owning of the character IPs, but if the support was as insufficient across the board as you imply, we should have seen more members leaving.
Speaking of the support, you've drawn an arbitrary distinction between supporting the character and supporting the person behind it. There are certainly things that the talents do on their own: I don't remember who spoke on it (it was either Calli, Moona, or Axel), but some portion of the costs for MVs, maybe all of it, comes out of the talent's wallet. Setting up Collabs, streams or songs, and of course the streaming itself, etc. also comes from the talents. Talents also have to lay down rules with chat, but I don't know if Cover at least offers to provide mods. But is isn't as though Cover does nothing: one thing is the joint statement they had with Nijisanji to pursue legal action against people defaming their talents, though I'm not sure what action has been taken in pursuit of this since then.
Another thing that I've heard talked about extensively from the Tempus boys is the securing of permissions to play games: from what I hear, they literally have a whole team of people dedicated for this that are constantly reaching out to companies, working on contracts, etc. so the talents can play games without the fear of DMCA takedown. Calli has talked about calling her manager when she messed up personal things: I think she accidentally locked herself out of her apartment once and called J-chad to help. Management has also appeared on-stream for multiple members when they're doing hand-cam stuff.
And of course, there's the concerts, the concert streaming, the appearances on TV, the new costumes, the 3d models, the merch, etc., all of which would be extremely difficult for the talents to do on their own, if not impossible. I don't see how making agreements with the venues, with the streaming sites, with the TV media, making new models which I do not believe cost the talents anything, providing areas and equipment for 3d streams and for recording, handling the design and production of merch, etc. does not count as supporting the talent. And that's only the things we are able to see. Yes, this increases the visibility and marketability of the character/IP, and perhaps that is the main goal of this, but that does not mean it does not benefit the talent as well. The two aren't mutually exclusive; heck, I'd say they're mutually inclusive: Anything that helps the character helps the talent, and vice-versa.
@@Psyche_TH found the hololive hater here.
even coco/kson said on her stream that the main reason she leave hololive was because she wants to do "more" in her stream that might cross some youtube line like early asacoco...but since hololive continually growing and become big, they need to put some line and that kinda restrain her creativity so she decided to leave even though she was hololive top earner by miles at that time
do more research if you want to hate some company...im sure cover is no saint but just dont blindly hate them either if you dont have some facts and just use your biased opinion
A VTuber Talent Agency is an amazing idea. The problem is that they've put themselves in a weird middle ground where they act like a talent Agency, but want the brand recognition of a Management Company.
The whole benefit of a Talent Agency is that you have your big names, but then you have hundreds or thousands of small names too. That way you bundle the big and small names together. Big names get better rates then they would alone, and the small names also benefit from having an agency take away a lot of work they'd otherwise be doing themselves. As a result big names have a reason to stay, and small names become loyal to the agency that's helping them grow.
Management Company's work with way smaller rosters because they own the talent IP. Since VShojo doesn't own their talent's IP, they don't benefit at all from having a small roster, and that smaller roster doesn't really benefit the vtubers either. If they want to work out long term they need to open the floodgates and let in A LOT more vtubers.
This actually taught me something, thanks for this comment
@mushmush Mythic talent agency is a good example of how a talent agency should work. They launched with like 12 big names and then let in a large number of talents of various sizes.
I mean, I know silver vale left probably because of how useless they were during the Hogwarts drama, and Veibae said its just because of money. But Nyanner's leaving too was outside of my expectations. I wouldn't say she left because of drama, but man, how bad was the contract that even an OG like Nyanners left. I mean, most of the members of Vshoujo don't really need to join an org, they are pretty well off without it.
Maybe her contract has not changed a lot since she joined? Good contract in the beginning, poor now
I mean, if you stay in a company for N years and your salary, position and benefits are still same and you are not happy with it, I would search for a new job and then quit in the current one or in their case be a freelancer (ofc if you know you can make at least a little more money, she can)
Is just my guess
@@fwiffo my guess is the drama was the tipping point though.
I think Hogwarts was more of a reinforcement of something that she probably already believed about the company, that vshojo won't do jack shit. That epiphany moment would've happened during Nux or right after.
@@fwiffo thinking about it like that, then damn, the new contracts they were given were really just THAT bad. yep, wouldn't be shocking if another talent drops them soon
@@fwiffo it's probably a combination of all of the above. Vshojo just seems so incompetent and hands off most of the time, it probably wasn't worth the effort.
Also, I kind of disagree with the Nux thing not being a factor, even a little. It kind of opened a lot of people's eyes to how the Vshojo girls operate, which is self oriented and so willing to backstab a friend who has helped them when they were starting up.
Unfortunately imo Vshojo is in a unrecoverable downward spiral. Even if Vshojo changes their recruitment strategy who in their right mind would want to sign up for Vshojo auditions when they fucked up so bad the first time?
The scale of their auditions controversy which led to the Nux drama soured the well of potential new applicants since not only did they waste everyone's time they also ended up harming innocent applicants due to the data breach. Trust in Vshojo is at an all time low.
And then they just brought on an already-established streamer who was already friends with a bunch of the members. They may as well hang a sign on their door that says "Don't bother applying"
@@fwiffo You can't deny its a bad look to host open auditions and then just hire someone who is practically in the group already. It makes it seem like you'd have a better chance trying to get into an actual corp.
VShojo gets held to a different standard because they operate completely differently. Niji/Holo invest a ton of money creating original characters/models and finding streamers who are good fits for them, VShojo seems more like "bring your own model/IP, sign this, and we'll give you a cut of merch sales"
@@fwiffo I never said they only hire friends, all I did was agree that the whole audition thing was a bad look, no amount of defensive paragraphs will change that, it just is what it is. Please don't tag me in any more of your novellas thx
"Unfortunately imo Vshojo is in a unrecoverable downward spiral"
Boy, this Comment did age like raw Milk in the Sun 💀
@spearofneptune5896 They gotta do more than just debut Henya to change my mind about the company trajectory. I'll patiently wait to see how things turn out in the future but my overall thoughts are still largely the same.
Pounding his chest about the greatness of nijsanji aged really poorly.
Say what you want about Hololive back in the day but considering how they've done better in mitigating drama and preventing drama, Hololive's business model is the best of the large ones at this point.
Niji doesn't nurture their talents (The failure and gradual graduation of Niji ID is due to lack of support and bad business practices, compared to Holo ID where it can stand on its own instead of being "budget EN")
outside of Golden Gooses like EN (Luxium) and Vshoujo can't offer anything to let their big names stay.
Freedom schmeedom, but if y'all suck at managing and choosing your talents it falls apart, and Hololive isn't as "restricted" as people say nowadays.
If it works, it works
I don't want to be mean, but I think for Vshojo having Silvervale, Veibae, and Nyanner leave in exchange for Henya, Geega, Kuro, and Matarakan was a great trade and the best thing that happened.
It seems like Vshojo is trying to pick people who are not just talented but would mesh well with their existing talents.
The previous members have traits that worked against cohesion with its members.
It's a group that has been learning and growing from it's mistake and experience to be something better than expected.
The same cannot be said of Nijisanji though...
Everyone forgetting Haruka
I think the problem is, when Vshojo started, it wasn't really meant to be the central focus, the company wasn't the entity. The company was very clearly someone (Gunrun, I guess) identifying that there was a group of very successful Vtubers who were all close friends, but all independent. The girls already existed, they already were playing together, they already liked eachother, and the company was someone else saying "Hey, you people all like one another, why not band together and make an org that helps raise all of you up together". It was basically a glorified Twitch Stream Team, which are (or were) functionally the same thing just without the monetary aspect. You join, you host/raid members, you interact and support and raise everyone in the group up together. Simple premise.
The problem is money. The company exists not because of the girls, and not because of their success, but because of their RELATIONSHIP with one another. And so if the company stops working, or money gets between it, the people will just say amongst themselves "We already make money, and we still have our relationship, so what do we need a contract for?". If the company or the contract doesn't add value to the relationship, then all it does is make everyone involved miserable because its' like sand getting in the cracks. It just grates and annoys and irritates, and it causes people who wanted to be close, to stop being close.
VShojo demonstrated how you bounce back from bad publicity. 9 months ago, many thought they were in trouble but made good decisions that paid off.
In comparison, Niji has had years of built up criticism come crashing down on them when the rumors being a black company went from speculative to CONFIRMED by their own hand.
Somewhere at his home Nux is laughing seeing this whole thing unfold.
I don't think he's that petty. When the camera is off at least. They used to be his friends and he's a good person. He'd probably still feel bad for them.
Me on the other hand.... I still hate them for what they did to him and I apprecciate seeing them fall apart.
He may be too good-natured of a person to actively revel in their misfortune, but I'll happily do it in his stead.
I feel for Haruka, she just got into Vshojo not long ago. She has a dedicated fan base so hopefully she’ll be fine.
I think the company needs to look to hire different people, maybe look at streamers that bring something unique to the company rather than a massive following first and foremost.
she'll be fine like the rest of the members. got to remember all of these members were successful indies long before they joined with the exception of nazuna.
Haruka still has a lot to gain from joining Vshojo unlike the girls that have left(any growth they would have had from just being in the same group has already been made) as a newer member the best thing she can do I Collab like crazy with the remaining members of Vshojo she wants to Collab with and just wait out this storm(until her contract expires) maybe in a year or two Vshojo will be in a better place than it is now hopefully, and if not Haruka can also jump ship.
I think they just screwed up from the start by not going at it too professionally.
By making it a sort of friends thing they likely put unprofessional people in positions where its awkward to remove them from without hurting friendships.
They have a huge history of drama and stuff caused by stuff being played too loose.
Nux thing, the Hogwarts thing, the announcement of silvervale and vei leaving while they were live.
All these things are stuff that management should be controlling.
@@LCJammer and even then, it's only *nazuna* that wasn't established before vshojo (or in this case that is directly owned by vshojo iirc). She is far from a rookie and arguably has more of a diehard fanbase than the others.
@@bonogiamboni4830 Nazuna would have been fine regardless of the route she took; she left Hololive with one of the most diehard fanbases over a million strong. As far as I'm aware, Froot is the only one who _truly_ debuted as a part of Vshojo and didn't just bring in an already established fanbase. _Technically_ there's also Hime when it comes to debuting as a _Vtuber,_ but considering how she practically never streams using her vtuber persona, she's barely even a real member.
I think the thing you brought up about the auditions meaning something is their wasted opportunity.
Like, their business one would assume would be:
1-Hire already successful talents.
2-Grow the brand's name thanks to those talents while helping them grow themselves.
3-Use that growth and name to start "seeding" new talents that can gain clout from the first ones through collabs and brand power before it's too late and the first ones leave.
4-Continue with your new established creators with maybe different contracts (IP Negotiation etc) that were born under your brand so when the first ones leave you are already established as a recognizable and reliable brand of talent production.
I feel they stopped at point 2 and trusted too much the "loyalty" that the girls could've had without realizing that it is very naive
At this point it seems the only good og member of Vshojo is Zen, who isn't even all that involved all the time, keeps her distance, keeps her privacy, just streams. I don't know there might be drama that I haven't heard about but she seems okay.
Mouse? What has she done?
@@ivansyomkin2156 I don't think Mouse has done anything really but I do remember she said or did something during the Nux Fiasco, just not exactly what
@@un_id5775 People make mistakes. I hate how the internet acts as if one mistake (even a bad one) determines your whole personality and automatically means you are bad.
@Ivan Syomkin the vshojo girls were known for drama before they even joined vshojo, mouse and zen are the only ones I had never heard of being in drama before vshojo they aren't hated because of one thing
@@ivansyomkin2156 True. I mean she did sincerely apologize to Nux. And it seems that both of them aren't keeping against each other. However the damage was done. Vshojo's aren't allow to collab with Nux anymore, which is why that drama was stupid on so many levels. Of an, "ok, we collab, appreciation of a PSA video" to "1 vs 1 sensitively offended of a PSA" to "all vs 1 unintentional attacks of an uploaded important PSA during that time". its so dumb.
Part of the issue, I think, is that even if VShojo wants to become an org-first kind of organization, they would need to make a significant overhaul to their branding. VShojo has pretty firmly made their presence on the scene known as a place for Coomer baiters, which makes it hard to compete for sponsors against companies that promote casual or idol branding.
yeah i pretty much will never watch wshojo because that W stands for something.
exactly this vshojo basically vtuber version such like amouranth etc
@asch I wouldn't say that specifically considering she actually went through some shit but I get the point
They did box themselves into a corner there, but it comes with the territory of choosing Vtubers with borderline NSFW content, so it's all on them in the end.
Vshojo is coomer baiters? I thought that was NijiEN, seeing all the clips and tweets about sex jokes, roleplaying and everything.
The thing that tells me how "not worth it" Vshojo is now is that Nyanners left. Nyanners is a founding member.
Silvervale leaving was expected. Veibae leaving wasn't, but it's whatever. But, a founding member leaving tells me that something is going on in the company to warrant leaving.
Nyanners leaving would be like if Sora left Hololive or Tsukino Mito left Nijisanji
To add to it, it was in short succession to Silver and Vei leaving Vshojo too, meaning whatever is going on is definitely not good. My guess is that what Veibae said implies that finances aren't really being handled well and the contract is looking like a bad deal to some of the talents.
Ironmouse unironically carrying Vshoujo (for now)
Isn't Silvervale also a founding member?
wasnt Silvervale also a founding members? thats 2 founding members leaving in one go.
I think VShojo had always been like the one agency that was top 3 alongside Niji and Holo. But after seeing so little interactions between its members, it's pretty obvious that they are all very anti-collab in a sense that inevitably causes leaving of talents like now. Another way to avoiding this kind of issue happening again is just have more activities or events with your talents and have them befriend each other and not leave them with their own ways.
Your mistake was assuming that VShojo operated like Nijisanji and Hololive.
It's largely just backend support.
@@ElliotKeaton Well I guess that is how they wanted to differentiate then so be it. At least their newer talents now has their Avatar personally made so maybe it's changing.
I think Nyanners leaving is a bigger deal than you made it out, since she is one of the foundational members. She’s along the same lines as Mouse and Mel. Like imagine if Miko or Suisei left Hololive, and what that would signal for the future of the company. The fact that they couldn’t offer her enough to keep her is a sign that VShojo is a living corpse.
Silver's also a founding member.
@@luminous6520 that just speaks to how badly Vshojo screwed Silver over. They did so little for her, people barely remembered she was with them.
Main problem of VShojo is they dont own the Vtubers IP, maybe i am wrong but only 3 members are original. Mean the girls can leave with no damage at all. Like in hololive when Rushia was let go and join VS they create new IP and people knew, but she can say who she is because they will sue her.
_"Like imagine if Miko or Suisei left Hololive"_
Or Kiyru Coco.
@@ElliotKeaton not really as much as big coco was she is not comparable to such miko/suisei/sora/peko leaving, the impact way too big, for some they are the face of holo, coco never was viewed as such
The large company can't do "we let our staff do what they want" in 99% of cases. It needs direction, which includes some restrictions as well. Hololive as a company has clear set of rules, which makes them a reliable partner for talent and other companies that want to do business together.
you simply can't give women limitless freedom ☕
Here's the thing, they shouldn't be a company.
They should just be a group of streamer rather than being a company because there's some expectation from company, such as protective of their talent and employee, and they just couldn't provide it.
@@ReigoVassal You mean like Vinesauce?
Phase connect... **watch me**
Well, a few months later and i consider swapping out Vei and Silver for Henya and Geega to be a major trade-up. I've also noticed that since those old members left, the current ones have been meshing and collabing and getting along and feeling a lot more like a team than before
This aged hilariously badly. Especially when you consider how he's now praising the company's business model like it's the best out there now.
VShojo was most definitely a clique. I called it the 'Nyanners extended universe'. Isn't necessarily evil to make it an exclusive club but.... It was very bad business from the VShojo side. Once that clique loses its luster, then ya have nothing.
I legit never even understood WHY they did that open audition thing in first place when they were never going to hire anyone from it. People talk about the Nuxtaku situation, but really that just surface level of the drama. The reality was, I saw so many indie Vtubers excitingly do the VShojo audition considering VShojo was what inspired em in first place.... And yet everyone got brutally rejected. All those indie Vtubers now are doing successful on their so, it was only VShojo that got hurt in rejecting em.
If VShojo wants to continue, they gonna need to do a real audition this time. No more Super Clique, hire randos who have potential like all the Vtuber companies.
That's because they only wanted the big names, see Vshojo doesn't have any former streamers that know how to grow a business either on Twitch or UA-cam. All the other big streamers had been big for awhile. I'm not even sure why Zen joined, Buffpup and RoseDoodle and all the others that had been around didn't want to join if there was no long term benefit.
Nyanners and Vei and silvervale to a degree were brand new and needed guidance, Mouse had been around but up until 2020 had always been a small streamer as she didn't do it for making money but to socialize. It was a hobby of hers until she started taking responsbility at home. Melody definitely needed someone to assist her with Legal as a e cam girl she's basically screwed otherwise, no one would give her the time of day for anything remotely high level reputation. Hie did it as something to do but she wasn't used to streaming to such a large audience right away. There is a learning curve she needed. Froot has done all right but she's a moderately prolific artist. She could, similar to Ina or Sana pivot her business back to illustrations and make models for games a and VTubers quite easily.
@@fwiffo wha.... Why would they hire 5k people? Normally it's 5 per 'gen'. They never debuted a new 'gen' from the audition.
Like I said, having the audition be pointless was only bad on VShojo. Cus if they did get a new generation hired, these 3 people leaving wouldn't of been as hard of a blow that it was.
HOPEFULLY new audition / new generation is on the horizon. Without it, VShojo would actually in danger of collapse.
Vshojo is basically a network company, like OTV, GeexPlus, and the earlier days of UA-cam.
Literally just a Vtuber MCN, created after the MCN bubble popped and crashed.
It really feels like VShojo built their empire on a foundation of sand. Things are quickly starting to sink into the depths.
Well this vid sure aged well.
When vshojo started I thought they would open with the handful of large vtubers to start and debut new ones as they went on. They should really start debuting new original members
This aged like milk.
This aged like milk, haha.
Wow, I'd somehow completely missed all the stuff about people leaving Vshojo.
I did always think Vshojo's business model seemed pretty limited in terms of revenue avenues, unless they take a cut of the profits from the talents like traditional agencies do, but in that case, how would all these big indies even benefit from joining? There's probably stuff I'm not considering, but all this does seem to give some merit to my initial thought process.
Originally it was networking, with them socializing and becoming friends before joining - The simple question is when was the last time you saw someone NEW on a Vshojo stream?
It's probably a harsh situation on the business side because the organization received quite a lot of seed money to grow the brand, and I don't think anyone feels they're showing enough professional ambition on that front. Some of the merch has been below Nijisanji-tier and Niji isn't known for consistently good merch.
09:40 Pretty most if not all the girls ij Vshojo made sure keeping their IP was part of the contract, I mean they were all(mostly) preestablished Vtubers so they had little reason to give away their self made IP, it also makes sense because they decided to make Vshojo together on the idea of talent freedom, all their doing now is using that freedom to leave the company legally because they feel Vshojo no longer benefits them, more power to them i say, amd hopefully Vshojo will notice this and consider amending their contracts soon so they wont lose even more talents.
I'm pretty sure Vshojo only has Nazuna's IP and model, all the other girls own theirs
@@PyroXeNeX what about Froot I never heard of her before Vshojo I always assumed she and Hime were Vshojo IPs
@@edenromanov Froot was an illustrator before she became a VTuber. She designed her own model originally. She also designed Hime's as well. Yes Froot is Hime's mama. I'm not sure how Froot got recruited but I think it was largely due to Hime talking to her about it, but she's the resident artist / Apex player. She's Ollie levels of obsessed into Apex
Hime owns her own model and she even used it in order to audition into hololive (She has a video on her own channel dating from the same time as the HoloEN auditions were called) - at the time she called the character Tokyo mew mew girl - Hime Hajime came about later and it's actually a really dirty slang term. No way she could ever collab with any japanese person. It's really that bad of a term.
ironmouse's indirect shoutout to this video lol
"damn bruh, you really did talk about this stuff for 20 minutes, huh"
Where?
IMO, the reason is Occam's Razor. Management agencies and talent firms give people connections and resources for a cut. When the talent outgrows the agency, it makes sense to go independent, financially and for the freedom. No matter how good a job is, no one wants a boss. I truly think the answer is real simple, the same reason anyone changes a job or company, just moving on with life. Wish them all the best.
Bruh what happened to 5 hours later?
Sorry, i mean 2. LMAO
Good to see the Oshistorian return
All I'm gonna say is that if Hime Hajime leaves VShojo, its absolutely over. She's the breadwinner of VShojo, she brings in the money and the views, she's VShojo's version of Hololive's Gawr Gura. If she were to leave it'll be completely unsalvagable. I hope my oshi Hime Hajime doesn't leave VShojo. I love Hime Hajime.
@Ropewash I love Hime Hajime
She can become independent and nothing really would change. She would even get more money because of Vshojo's cut going away.
@@Devin11246 she's already independent and I think Hime Hajime is just a side hobby for her.
Hime Hajime leaving will be the FINAL YAB
Just in case, this comment was purely satirical, I know she streamed only twice last year, how tf is she sposed to be the breadwinner of VShojo. Despite that I still find Syd-… I mean Hime’s irl form very entertaining.
How did i knew it was going to be down to budget cuts
when they joined Vshojo got them 70/30 split on twitch subscriptions, and vshojo took a share of brand deals and merchandise. But now EVERYONE is getting 50/50 it's probably not worth giving up that share. Also Mouse hasn't resigned yet, if she leaves, that's it, not only is she their biggest star, she's also their biggest cheerleader.
Didn't think of that aspect - interesting
She probably got a bigger and better deal than the rest of the girls tbh..
I feel like Mouse and Melody ARE Vshojo. If they leave then it is absolutely over. Zen too! I think that if Vshojo wants to keep recruiting high value and well established talents then they need to start brining more opportunities for their talents. They need more concerts, special merch, convention appearances, more of the stuff that agencies do. They need some big name collabs that an indie could never negotiate. They need to provide services that an indie could never get on their own. If they don't then they are just kind of circling the drain.
This video aged like milk in the summer
Sounds like you're comparing apples & oranges here.... speaking from a business perspective, a talent _"factory'_ is going to be a very different business model to a talent _agency_ or collective.
From my limited knowledge, the large orgs that you're comparing VShojo with actually hire performers to fill Vtuber characters that the company itself creates & manages, like an actor on a TV show. And like TV, the performer doesn't own the rights to that character so they can't take it when they leave.
On the other hand, VShojo sounds like a talent agency... agencies _partner_ with established talent to manage the business side of things on their behalf (like an actor's agent or gaming streamer org - they source sponsorship opportunities, negotiate with merch vendors, etc). But importantly, they have little to no say in the creative elements of the Vtuber's business... it's a business partnership rather than an employment relationship.
When you look at it in this context, the fact that some Vtubers didn't renew their contract with VShojo isn't alarming or indicative of the same issues as it might in other organisations. Formal business relationships end all the time... maybe the talent has outgrown VShojo's capacity to offer value, maybe expectations or targets weren't met, maybe they had a falling out. But I certainly wouldn't call unrenewed contracts a death knell for VShojo... it's a fundamentally different business.
Vshojo will have to play an epis sax solo to woo me
I no longer watch vtubers but I just wanna study their business model and see how the general public attention towards any vtubing company changes over time, be it constant or totally annihilated
Question for you: what made you stop watching vtubers?
Its pretty clear that the vtuber boom is stopped and I'm trying to get as many point of testimony from people that got out of it.
Totally annihilated i don't think so, but my prediction they'll go back to become a niche in broader anime world. The vtubers industry is still quite strong at least in Japan and SEA (or Indonesia for me) idk about in the west but Vox's outfit reveal during live was still had tens of thousands view i guess is still strong as well
cant wait for silicon valley types to try going into vtuber business, maybe another FaZe situation perhaps? Snoop Dogg is now a vtuber? That shit sounds like it'd be so entertaining.
@@apolloisnotashirt I mean... let's be real here, Vshojo IS the FaZe of vtubing.
A company that only get people already big to soak up their clout and produce nothing in return.
@@Pers0n97Count me in. stopped watching vtuber clips also skipped holofes and other stuff too..
Feels like vtubers getting more into controversies nowadays though thats not the reason i stopped watching them maybe it was boredom
What worries me is they took an 11 mil funding round last year. From an investment standpoint if i saw a company or startup, in a volatile space like entertainment, that i just put 11 mil into lose a number of talented members that make up part of its brand, I would be very worried. The business model needs to be fundamentally changed or revisited. If it wants to be a creator first company that's fine, but you need to be operating like a horse stable, Sure you have a bunch of horses that are legends in their own right, but you need to rear new talent too preferably before your old winners have to be put down and turned to glue. While your old winners are in their prime you use them to build up your stable rep and income so you can reinvest those winnings into building something bigger and better. This also allows you to take a shot at unknowns and see if you can groom them into winners without the worry of losing everything on a bad bet.
Otherwise what are you? Just a holding house for people who could otherwise still do as good or better without your help. What unique solution or mode of operation are you offering that makes these talents WANT or HAVE to stay committed to your brand? Whoever came up with their business strategy really skipped the part of business school that talks about employee retention techniques and stratagems as well as retention's relationship to company growth, success and innovation.
Depressed Nousagi redebuing as Moist Nousag1
This really didn't aged well.
It’s like “wow who would have thought that just recruiting already famous people and not getting new members would hurt us!”
The Nux stuff left a bad taste in my mouth with Vshojo
Yep, I'm still on my own little boycott of Vshojo because of it and I'm torn.
I'm somewhat happy Vshojo isn't doing well, but it will make it harder for me to avoid their content as individual vtubers than as a company
To me personally the way to go is doing what they do now, but scout out up and coming talent, that has a bit of clout, but still has more than enough room to grow. You dont really need to create original characters.
Do a whole gen with 3 or 4 people and let them interact with eachother behind the scenes for a while to create a bond and see if they have chemistry before debuting (how Holo does it).
Give them freedom, but set some boundaries, atleast on social media. Look at Phase Connect, those girls have a ton of freedom and say/do crazy things, but Sakana always steps in if shit gets too wild and says no to things.
And if you have "middle shelf" talent, they will be willing to listen, unlike those they hired who are too big to listen to anybody.
Let them collab more with eachother...as it is now, every talent had they own clique outside of Vshojo and there was pretty limited interaction between certain members.
Lastly...dont pander to a certain demographic (you know who Im talking about), that woke shit only bites you in the ass...which we clearly saw.
The most important thing...defend your talent in time of crisis, dont leave them hanging like Silver...talent needs to trust the company to have their backs.
VShojo always seemed like Gunrun wanted to hop on the vtuber bandwagon, realized that managing talents is actually a lot of hard work and cut it down to being a merch/advertising contract and spin it as "talent freedom." So from my point of view they were already half-assing it out the gate. There's no "saving VShojo" because it is designed to be a low-effort operation and anything that would save them requires effort. Good riddance if it crashes and burns imo, the talents themselves are and will be fine.
I never consider Vshojo as a Vtuber company. Its more like a friend group who kinda starts a business. I mean, Nyanners, Melody and Ironmouse are the founding members who set-up the "company". Nyanners even hangs out with Gunrun on an IRL stream. Its not like Hololive or Vshojo where they are a talent agency who scouts people. With Vshojo, they'll recruit their friends, as seen with Kson and Haruka.
VShojo's recent troubles... aren't as massive as they seem. The reality is that its a group of streamers under a banner that don't collab often,don't really hang out and don't fully support each other. It's a company that connects a bunch of indie streamers more than anything. Nyanners may have left but I'll bet she still collabs with Ironmouse,I'm sure Silver might stream with some of her former brandmates,same with Vei.
It's not like anyone graduated.
Nothing changes lol
the analogy with a sport team trying to make a star player stay is pretty good . i can use that to explain to noirmies easier XD
Haruka, and Mel need a middleman because they uh, need a businessman to run shit for them IMO. Kson and Nazuna probably will benefit by having someone IN AMERICA who speak fluent English looking to market them. And Zen needs a frontperson if they want to stay totally anonymous. Anonymity is actually a selling point of the agency. Froot is an artist and probably needs a middleman? But VSHOJO probably struggles to make money since wrangling streamers is an, unenviable job, and marketing them seems to be going through a bust period. I cannot imagine having no leverage over STREAMERS and trying to get them show up to an event together and ON TIME. So some streamers probably benefit from agencies, but then you have to make an argument for VSHOJO being attractive, and keeping the agency solvent.
I personally wouldn't mind Vshojo as a company failing and die. After the mismanagement of their talents with that nux incident and still wanting to lie about things just to make them look better says a lot about what they are as a company
Once Ironmouse is gone, that is that for Vshojo. It will be like Hololive losing Gura or VOMS losing Pikamee. Once your biggest star is gone, you will struggle to keep fans and you will crumble as a business.
I also feel sorry for Nazuna as Vshojo pretty much gave her second chance to experience what she had before and now her senpais are leaving one by one.
I mean i think that hololive can survive the individual graduation of any of their l talents.
It all depends of the frequency and circumstances.
Remember how much doom and gloom there was around Cocos grafuation and Rushias termination, yet hololive endured.
I think that one thing that would actually damage Hololive would be if an entire gen graduated at once, that would worrisome.
I'd say losing Sora or Fubuki would be a bigger example, although saying that Hololive has built up quite a lot of strong pillars now that I think it'd take a batch graduation or a lot in quick succession to really set something like that off, Coco and Rushia leaving set a tremor through the company for an example (both were the company's biggerst earners in terms of super-chats) but the company is still going strong now.
gura leaving wont have such effect, it will otherwise if its pekora/miko
@@asch7983 wrong.
Finally mowtendoo can go back to making cool videos instead of clout chasing weeaboo vtubers who are morally questionable and can in one go destroy the entire progress we've made to get japanese companies to allow us to enjoy japanese media and do collabs
aged like fine milk
I think that it won't work anyway. Bringing smaller talents won't do much imo because as you've said the girls made the company "popular" and not the other way around. Aside from part of the community going away with the girls there is a problem of them not interracting with eachother. How ofted do they collab within Vshojo? For example in Holo the collabs are pretty often so the new fans are more likely go to the other members aside from the one they saw the first/their oshi. Also they often talk about eachother so there's that as well
Really the only way for VShojo to stop the exodus is to pivot to a traditional talent agency (eg Mythic Talent/Loaded) or go full vtuber agency(hololive/Niji). The former would require them to start providing better services to their talents and the later is just as Nousagi said, start hiring fresh talent
They're better going the way of Mythic and provide both sponsorships as well as merch contacts. This is what they do already so they ight as well just open the flood gates. I don't think going traditional would work for them at this point as people expect them to be about Talent freedom. if they did this in Japan as it is with merch and sourcing sponsorships for small indies it would be huge. There's literally no one in JP doing that as far as I know.
With the number of companies serving these markets it's about their only chance at survival. If you look at a company like UwU market, whom you only ever hear about on Things VTubers Say news, they are actually a huge company with over a 100 Vtubers they do merch for, and Mythic is going to pick up a lot of decent sized VTubers in the next year same with UTA for sponsorships.
It’s somewhat funny to me that the owner of Vshojo used to run the channel Mowtendoo, who you probably know from Blend W. That guy founded vshojo
He's the CTO. The CEO, GunRun, is a former OG Twitch employee.
According to Silvervale when she joined, vshojo doesn't get a cut from subs or donos. We know they handle merch and networking such as the time they made Kson pay for everything for her 3D live (this isn't weird) after helping her set everything up.
The issue I think is their merch game is super weak. Just look at the stuff in their store, it's so mundane compared to what other companies and indies sell, and the talents don't even seem to care about their merch where other talents seem so excited about creating merch for their fans. Companies like Hololive make talents pay to have their mech made whereas in vshojo everyone has roughly the same stuff in the store with different skins and rrat but I don't think they're emotionally or financially invested in it.
So there's no way to sweeten the dono/sub split, and VShojo talents own all of their IP because they paid for everything related to their IP, so I think it's hopeless unless you're Melody who has been burned without legal support or Kson who has been ripped off trying to make her own merch or similar. Even Nazuna is selling mousepads on her roommate account now.
Dude you called it with the debut of Henya
"replacing those talents is going to be hard" and then Henya debut and fucking carried Vshoujo to space
“Vshoujo is done!”
Henya: hold my beeru. Hold it dayo! *kettle noise begins*
Dude...this is like everything I thought almost exactly after I heard about those 3 leaving.
From what I understand a lot of venture capital and silicon valley money has dried up. Vshojo needs to make smart moves and an identity.
We have no idea if it's hit Vshojo but theere when the Silicon Valley Bank when under (Collapse similiar to what happened to banks in 2008) it crushed supposedly about 60% of US venture capital
I thought about this a lot, and if you're someone like VShojo, you need to add value that the talents couldn't add themselves. VShojo tries that a bit, e.g. by having booths at conventions, but it's too small.
But I'm thinking of stuff that actually grows the brand, e.g. VTuber awards, highlighting smaller creators (as you mention), making hololive-style IRL concerts, have the talent travel to do IRL collabs, organize the talent voice-acting in game hololive-style, make budget for bigger lore drops, etc.
The thing is, none of them are necessarily easy, or will even make you a lot of money, but they give talent a reason to stay other than "money".
Like, does someone at VShojo know for every single of their talents "what are the 3 biggest things wants to do but can't atm" and has tried to solve for it? I'm fairly certain in hololive the managers of the talents know this and give updates from time to time, and try to make stuff happen. Like, yes, there's stuff that the org wants, but I bet it goes in both directions.
I've worked in the esports industry, with multiple professional players, and like, VShojo strikes me as one of these incredibly well-funded LA teams that just always buy the best players, do a couple of things to check a few boxes, and throw money at players until they die. I've seen this so often in the industry, I've seen the players benefit, of course, but there's so much potential, and so little *stuff* being done it actually makes me annoyed.
With that said, I'm not entirely sure if that's enough, because working with already successful people is always dangerous, because successful people have the option to say "no" to you asking them for shit.
That's what i am saying, They just out grew an agency. What is Vshojo providing that they can't do themselves? They have seen their Indie friends kill it being indie and are thinking they can do the same.. and they can. What does Vshojo provide? Merch... It's much easier for vtubers to make their own merch now. Sponsorships? They are way easier to get on your own if your as big as nyan or Vei. Vshojo is providing nothing new that they can't get themselves without having to pay an agency a cut. It's just common sense to leave if you can do everything on your own, i mean why take such a pay cut when you can do everything yourself.
False talked about the what you get thing last year, where at least in the past, joining Vshojo would get you more growth, in addition to the contact with sponsors, some support, ect. But as you said, they can get all of the things Vshojo would get them elsewhere now.
Vshojo is just a talent agency, but specifically for Vtubers. The problem is that now normal talent agencies are taking on Vtubers, so established talents don't need to go for Vshojo anymore. And they all have their own circles now, and unlike in a more traditional agency the talents are launched together, and would spend time getting to know each other and build chemistry ahead of launch, Vshojo talents are brought on solo, already with their own friend groups and stuff going on. So if another talent agency can offer more than Vshojo, there's no reason they wouldn't leave once their contract was up. Vshojo have no leverage against their talents.
If Vshojo is going to stay relevant and survive, they need to find a way to find leverage against their talents to incentivize them to stay. And as you said, develop their own talents like other agencies. Even if they give the talents the option to buy their IPs, it will give something to have at the table and also help breath fresh life in.
fr. it would be hard to compete against mythic now if we talked about sponsors just look at all the big brand that worked with mythic. you can just go indie and have mythic manage you
Vshojo only selling point is networking and collaborating to build each talents individually. But I haven't seen them work together in ages.
I wouldn't be surprised if the big time talents told management they don't want small indies cause they view them a competition instead of someone come in and build the group up together with collaborative quality content.
A combination of not being friends anymore and not getting paid enough to stay together.
I'm glad Silvervale left that horrible environment.
Mouse said she still sees her as a friend and loves her, Silver was wrong about Mouse.
what happened with silvervale n the other vshojo girlies :((
@@chuu3u some of them threw her under the bus during the hogwarts legacy drama
@@ThraceVega what great friends and coworkers -.-
@@chuu3u It hired what seemed like a friend group. Publicly it seems some drifted away from being friends which happens then the contract renewal seems to not have been good in their eyes so they left. You have other groups of VTuber friends that aren't under an agency but seem to support each other better than VSjojo did. Some if not most don't join agencies due to what is happening with VShojo. The thing is once you get big enough you already have connections and know people who work on the stuff your brand does so it just is an unneeded middle man.
This video video kind of aged badly.
But there's still the question if the business model is sustainable.
We'll see this year. If Henya, Kuro and Matara leave, it'll mean VShojo provides good service to join but not to stay.
I could be wrong but given that Vshojo was backed by venture capital they were able to off their talents very generous contracts (I think they only retained merchandising rights from the talents). Now after the collapse of SVB and the death of venture capital they would have to get their money elsewhere presumably their generous contracts no longer became so, perhaps taking a cut of all a talents revenue where before there wasn't. The fact Vshojo needs its talent more than the talent needs what Vshojo offers is its Achilles Heel.
vshojo is neither hololive or nijisanji. what is it trying to be if not a real agency with real resources at their disposal?
the biggest flaw is trying to create a “super group” of established vtubers instead of building up and cultivating talent. this way you create talent not keep hopping to different talents.
There is one ace in the hole that Vshojo has that, while it wont SAVE the company, will at least keep it somewhat stable: The talents situations.
Ironmouse's condition, Melody's Adult streams, and Zen's text to speech model for example. The girl's are at this point able to go indie and receive more income, however because of how unique their situations are, they are more or less glued to the company as their own support for streaming and connections to support their ideas.
Vshojo CAN recover, based on what we definitely know, the talents are leaving based on the contract, and aren't leaving from in fighting or position abuse. The talents know how to handle and support themselves, communication has shown to be lacking, but that's not toxic its rather natural honestly, that in a friend group you connect with certain others more.
What the company Needs is to step back, examine what's wrong internally and externally, and use their own platform to improve and polish.
This aged BAD
Yep let me tell you
For span of 3 years, Vtubers are collapsing little by little. These dramas are the stains that will discolor everything in this industry
I think it may be compared to the kpop boom that we saw in the 2017-2020 in the West. I think its going to inevitably calm down at some point but probably will now be an option people may look to for streaming.
@@thetruth9952 honestly I firmly believe many things that got popular during COVID are going to lose that massive explosion of fans as more casual fans lose interest. With everything open again, people are not going to be online as much as they were before
Sorry I just don't see that being the case, not sure where you are looking. Growth in the western market has stagnated a bit, but concurrent viewers have not gone down on average. In JP you have people like Marine streaming a talking collab to 50,000+ people while hitting a more mainstream anime audience, and Suisei not far behind.
Niji on average has gone down a bit, but they are spreading their viewers amongst too many talents, though many are still seeing growth in their viewership.
Aren't like 6/10 of the most popular female streamers right now Vtuber from Hololive?
@@thetruth9952 Idk why it would seem "wacky" when vtubers are literally just normal streamers with 2d avatars, its super famous in japan, even more currently. Its like saying "oh im a youtuber", it could be said synonymously with being a vtuber in japan.
12:35 "How do we save VShoujo [theoretically]?"
Well, i guess getting a certain Kettle under their brand with possibly owning her new IP might be one thing they could do...
I think vshojo could do like something similar to other agencies where they have adoption style audition and have an option for a traditional style audition. Because people that aren't vtubers will try to audition for a big company.
I don't hate Vshojo for this practice. There are so many great Vtuber talents nowadays across the globe and even with 3 talents leaving, the Vshojo name still holds weight.
Whoever fills these 3 spots will bring along their audience and gain many more. Vei, Silver and Nyan will still do great since they keep their identity.
The problem is getting those talents now. The only talents available will be small one's that ca't get merch deals. There are a lot of companies that offer merch programs for smaller VTubers, such as UWU Market or sponsoship programs like Mythic talent or UTA. The only market for Vshojo is small talents, but they didn't even bother to show anyone from 2021 because none of the big names showed up and they didnt do any auditions in 2022 which they wshould have done right after Kson joined would have been the best thing. Vshojo's PR with Anime Expo was at the highest it had ever been.
@@EndoftheBeginning17and then along came a kettle dayo.
Nice, he even ended like Moist lol. They can use the same model but for pre-existing lower and mid tier talents. Once they hit a certain size, cut them loose and charge them an exit fee.
Step 1: Exclusively recruit talents that don't need you.
Step 2: ???
Nah. The real reason is vtuber industries already reach its peak. Everyone knows that. Too many new vtuber each week and they all do same shenanigans sh*t that makes vtuber is not really exclusive anymore. Too many drama and toxicity that make it lose its charm. Also the world already turns back to normal. Thanks for this 6-7 years for entertain us.
honestly seems like vshojo just went into the shitter and all the "friends" became distant and maybe enemies.
eh, the vtubing world will be fine.
I saw one dude who put it really well. Pretty much said that vshojo has become the equivalent of putting Faze in your name
@@fwiffoYour last paragraph is what it think.
They should now build the business upon their friendship.
Maybe Hime get this idea from Garnt and try to recreate Trash Taste in her own version.
Nux must be laughing at this cesspool crashing and burning
Vshoujo is pretty much suck on mousey teet😂😂😂
The day mousey leave Vshoujo will be ruins!
Lucky them that Mouse has teet to spare.
I do agree with you. They need to have unknown talents that are Vshoujo IP's. That's pretty much the only way they will get to work this out.
They could still add some known names, maybe by having one known and another 2 or 4 new ones, original IP's, for them per gen.
its so over for vshoujocels
thb when ever i see Iron mouse, Kson etc i never think that i watch a VShojo member. While i was listing to your comments about what VShojo could do, I thought of greating events under thiere brand with the Talants could alos help build a bigger bond to thiere talants.
Unless they become more traditional vtuber agencies who recruit new and not well know talents and gets cuts of their profits for getting them started I can't see them surviving. They almost deserve it for wasting the Vtuber boom and not expanding and having so many top talents and watched them leave.
Even then this is still like step one for them. They have to fix their shit behind the scenes and use whatever fame they have left to survive. Losing Nyanners after losing the other two is a big hit, but they can survive. They just have to do something before its too late.
It was just a matter of time. It has lasted a bit more than I expected, I'll give them that.
It makes me sad that even when presented with a hypothetical question, some people in chat (much like the people on twitter we mock so much) immediately go for the scorched earth answer.
"How would you save VShojo from collapsing?" => "We don't, F them" / "We don't, let them burn" / "Disband it"
*That's the mindset that the people wanting to ban anime from the US have.* "If it's not for us, I hope it dies." It's the same kind of hypocrisy we call out over and over from the "twitter freaks". The only thing I'm always sure of is that there's always people on our side that are just like the ones we are arguing against. Guess the positive way to look at it is that the ones against us are all just people too, so we should think of them as such.
I mean, let's be real, Vshoujo as a company has been kind of a joke since the beginning, with how bad the support has been for it's talents in multiple areas. Coupling that with their incompetence in dealing with some serious situations they ended up in, at this point they would need to make a declaration of change of intentions big enough to repair their from the start weak image, and I doubt that's gonna happen. So yeah, "We don't, let it burn" is not an out there opinion to have. Personally, I don't care since I know most of their members already have a way to move on after the possible dissbanment of the company, and the ones that don't (Mel has admitted to need something like Vshoujo cus of her more "spicy" content) I just hope they find their own way.
@@jackmesrel4933 You're part of the problem and you act exactly like the people you profess to hate.
Vshojo isn't really a talent agency though, they just centralize behind the scenes services. Vshojo does things that all the girls leaving are going to have to pay out of pocket for now. So either they weren't doing those things very well, or they tried to start switching their model to a more traditional talent agency.
So it really doesn't matter if they collapse, in their wake the competent employees will create more sustainable business models with their highly specialized skillsets. Or the demand won't be there and so be it.
"Let them burn", "Disband it".
If we assume more members will leave, and we have every reason to do so, then a VShoujo without the big names is nothing but a tainted brand. They already had a bad rep, and losing so many big names will make it worse. At that point, it's simply more cost-effective to start over without all the baggage.
Okay I'm the one who said disband it because:
1. We assume Vshojo is in red line on the money by the looks of many talents preferred going indie and not sticking to the new contract.
2. The brand of Vshojo already reaped some bad reps this past months
3. Vshojo doesn't have the power to control or have bargaining power with the talents.
So what can you do? The only possible way is retaining the talents' freedom aspect till it bloom (we can say it doesn't) or start anew. How can they start new way/adapting with traditional way of vtubing while having so many bad reps and no money? Disband and rebrand it, or just like in the video, sell the asset and make new start. There are so many small vtuber corps that already disbanded their brand because...they are short on the money, and Vshojo is in it now until some miracle the talents/management can get sponsorship who willing to inject money to them.
even without a script, your arguments and points still have such good flow and nuance. great critikal style video LOL