Thanks James for a high quality, inspiring and informative video. It seems that over the years research and development in air suspension technology has progressed way beyond R & D in coil suspension technology. So there is much room for development of coil shocks and forks. If revived interest in coil shocks and forks continues and even increases then maybe we'll see such needed development of coil suspension technology. Coil shocks and forks might then become lighter and offer more adjustable functions and other features similar or identical to those of air shocks and forks.
Thanks! I appreciate a deeper look into the benefits and tradeoffs of coil suspension. I swapped to a coil shock a couple years ago and love it. Going full coil would be nice, although like you say it is a little heavy. When I ride with full rigid 29-er riding friends I can't keep up on long climbs and I have to slow down for them on some descents. I prefer that grip with low stiction, but there is a tradeoff in weight. My rollover would always be an issue since I am on 26" wheels, so my riding group is an extreme comparison.
I love White Ranch (one of my favorites) I live in Arvada. I have the 11/6 and air has never worked for me. I just talked to them today and found out about this option, i'm getting it done Monday and having my old 11/6 upgraded to the new build. Great video brother I liked your commentary. We should go ride some time ! PEACE
Thanks man! White Ranch is by far my favorite go to within 20 minutes. Glad you're getting some upgraded parts for the 11/6. So much sweeter. Would love to ride. My wife and I moved into an RV, but we'll be back in the area. I'll keep our whereabouts up to date here and other social media. Will hit you up when we're back in CO!
@James Stoup So how do you manage the travels with the bikebag now? Cause you can't lock the compressed coil into place right ? Will finally get a bike again after 5years without biking (had to sell my dh for food, that's how poor i was) and i admit i never thought about the hassle it will be to reset the both suspensions every time. Also how hard was it fitting the push into the fork? i assume you need a lot of tools in order to do that.
I don't use a bike bag for my bike anymore since I'm able to drive to all of my travel destinations. That being said, I never had an issue with getting the bike into my EVOC bike bag as is. Even when I had air shocks on the bike, I didn't let out any of the pressure. Glad you're getting back into biking again. It really is fun. Don't sweat having to reset your suspension all the time. I've not had to do it much at all. Installing the coil in the fork wasn't too hard. You need some tools for sure -- I think they list them on their website. If not, you can always send the fork to PUSH and have them install it for you.
James Stoup I'm in europe so sending the fork to push would cost me more than buying the tools imo :D I will try my fork as is (fox 36 grip2) and see how it feels on the long runs. Thing is, you can't go back to air anymore and having never tested the push i would be quite mad if i didn't like it after putting it in the fork :/ (since the fork is brand new) What size is your frame? apparently XL+ frames have some troubles fitting in EVOC bikebags Yeah riding was really fun, can't wait to get back on the bike ! 3months to get the money i need for the rest of the parts together and UK here i come :D
I’ve always liked coil shocks/forks. I have my 2012 Pivot Mach 5.7 with Marzocchi RC3’s with Avalanche kit and Avalanche Woodie rear shock. So nice it’s ridiculous. Plush and small bump compliance is terrific. Long story short, the extra grams are well worth it. I totally agree with you.
So agree with you. I'm super sad Marzocchi isn't around anymore. I had a 888 Ti that was freaking awesome. Amazing fork. Now they're basically rebranded Fox :/
Good video and insight to the coil switch. I too switched to a coil on the back end of my slayer and am loving it. May well switch to an mrp ribbon coil up front, we'll see. Please please please sort out your cables up front though hehe 👌
Hi James. I have the same suspension setup you have on an aluminium 29er enduro bike. Looking to get a smash pot and a fast fenix rear coil shock as they don't make an 11 6 for my bike. Are you able to carry more speed through rock Gardens, over roots etc and have you noticed any reduction in arm pump if you have descents long enough? Thanks Jonny
Hey Jonny. Glad to hear you're making the switch. To answer your question, yes I can carry way more speed. The coil setup doesn't get overheated and lose dampening on long descents. Coil is so supple that it eats all smaller chunk no problem, and with the additional midstroke support, it still feels very supportive. I have way less arm pump on coil than the air setup I've run previously. And no problems jumping anything I need on the trail as well.
@@JamesStoup Amazing. Thanks so much. Im going to the alps this summer. Would you upgrade the forks to coil first to remove arm pump? I ride clipped in so not so much of an issue with feet being blown off the pedals. Thanks again
@@jonathanhowson6420 front and rear work together. Changes to the rear can have a pretty big effect on the front that causes arm pump. I'd get a bike setup that you feel comfortable on more than trying something new just to avoid arm pump. Don't want to be trying to dial in your setup while on facation.
@@JamesStoup just to let you know I bought a Vorsprung Smashpot and upgraded the front to 170mm and then got a Push 11 6 for the rear. The coil made a huge difference in the alps last summer along with the ridiculous power of some Magura Mt7 brakes. Coil all the way for me now :)
I'm about 185 all kitted up. I used this chart to set it up. www.pushindustries.com/pages/ac3-support I got the green coil for my 170mm. I set LSC to 12 from closed and HSC 14 from closed. That being said, my LSC and HSC could use a bit more dialing in, and aren't correct from their chart (they base it from the open position). Rebound is different too, so I set that based on feel.
Added weight to a bike can easily be countered by getting stronger as a rider. A couple more trips to the gym, a couple less beers, either way it's an easy fix. But poor suspension performance because of how lousy air shocks/forks are results in learning poor riding techniques to compensate. Which would you rather be? Stronger with top notch suspension? Or weak with poor riding skills and a super finicky shock? The choice was easy for me. Man I jumped on coil shocks the moment they started making them for trail bikes. Haven't gone air fork yet but I will soon. Such a big difference. And Darren and the guys at PUSH are awesome. Many of my friends run 11-6's. I'm on Cane Creek because I'm a poor dirtbag. Sidenote: Yer Knooooooooooolly. Nom nom nom nom. I need a cold shower now. ;) Great video! Subbed.
Yes, this absolutely! Suspension setup is so important, because setup wrong you train your body to do all the wrong things. Breaking bad habits is really hard, so it's better to learn the right way first. Cane Creek is awesome too! I know some people have issues with their reliability, but I've not had issues with any that I've run. Ride what ya brought! Dude I love my bike! It's so awesome, thanks for the compliments and sub. :) If I end up your direction, I'll hit you up and we can ride!
I'm not a big guy, so take what I say with a grain of salt. My understanding of bigger guys using coil is due to PSI limits on air springs. At a certain weight you'll hit the max PSI and you still may not end up at the correct sag. Coil resolves this since there isn't an air spring with a max PSI. The issue that a lot of bigger guys will run into is that they will need to service their suspension more often. My understanding is that the higher pressures put more stress on the damper. Speaking of the damper, due to being bigger, they're not valved for bigger guys. So they just sort of work, instead of working really well.
I have the sudden dilemma of needing to replace my TALAS spring in my 2016 Fox 36. I thinking about the ACS3 and ride the same trails as you. What's your 6 month verdict? Worth every penny? Also how is the climbing with the ACS3. Does the small bump improvement and suppleness help in climbing; ie stopping you from being bumped off line by baby heads? BTW, I think you deserve more subs so I subbed!
Colorado Biking sorry to hear about the TALAS spring Kerry. 6 month verdict is that it’s awesome. Definitely worth the cash if you have to get a new fork or replace an air spring anyway. It’s hard to say about getting bumped off line. I don’t notice getting bumped off line, but the bike this is on is really slacked out and heavy. My climbing has gotten better so maybe it’s that? It is way more supple than an air fork. That first bit of travel feels really really nice. I definitely recommend it. The upgrade is heavier so if you care about weight you won’t like it. I don’t notice it really. Thanks for watching and subbing. I’ve been watching your videos for awhile now. LHOV looks awesome but unfortunately I didn’t get to ride it before my wife and I hit the road. I’d love to go riding with you when we loop back around your direction. Keep me posted on whether you get the upgrade or not!
Sorry bro can't help ya other than talk to the manufacturer of your bike. Different frames have different setups that a blanket set of settings just won't work for.
Hey Charles, not so much anymore, but we used to. We're lucky that we get to do a lot of traveling throughout the US now. We'll be back in the area though, so stay in touch and I'll hit you up when we're back. Thanks for watching!
My friend Ben swears up and down that his push rear shock made his bike feel like a totally different bike. He even offered to throw it on mine. To try to make me pull the trigger on one. What do u think?
If your bike can take a coil shock, it's rad. If it can't, there are options for custom tunes that are well worth it. I'd take a custom air shock over a coil for sure though. You can't go wrong either way, and it definitely feels like a totally different bike.
James Stoup yes it will fit. We both ride nomad 3s. He says we can trade for a week to see what I think. We are similar in weight as well about 5lbs off.
Pretty much if you have ever ridden a DH bike, it is near impossible to switch back to an Air shock. I used the stock air shock on my Nomad 4 for most of Snow summit bike season last year after trading up my Giant Glory Advanced. And you fell the rock gardens for sure with an air shock. I got a Cane creek CS coil and a Conrad Helm and there's a huge difference. There's also more confidence. The added weight is nice, because I don't second guess myself on jumps or drops. Its definitely a different feel, but it is also subjective. I've met plenty of riders at the DH park that prefer Air shocks and over coil. Their reasoning was all the same, less pre-load upon hit the jump. But I still stand by the engineering. You can tell when a bike was designed for a coil or an air shock. Pretty much YT bikes entire line was designed with an air shock in mind. Hence why you see Arron Gwinn sporting the stock Tues. But So a SC V10 or Nomad 4 those were definitely designed with a coil shock. The linkage plays a huge role in the kinematics of the bike. Conclusion: Should people be completely sold into getting a coil. Fuck no. But if you have never ridden on a coil bike, people should test it out. Go to a bike shop and rent a bike with a coil set up that has similar kinematic design as your current bike. Do this before you drop the money and realize coil isn't for you.
This so much! Thanks for the comment. Coil definitely isn't for everyone, but it seems to suit more aggressive riding than air. Like you said, different bikes work well with coil and others don't work at all. I've seen plenty of coils on bikes that shouldn't have them, and then folks wonder why they don't like it.
You dont even need to switch to a dh bike to notice that. I got a Cane Creek DB coil CS and all my friend feel like riding on clouds when using my bike, because they all have air shocks. In the rear a coil is definitely the way to go if your frame works with that, but up front i have my doubt, because you reall lack the progessivity.
I don't understand, why would you second guess yourself if the bike weights less ? I get your point about DH bikes but don't forget that nowadays you can have a DH bike with an air shock ;) Are you using your nomad in the low or high setting? Thought it was the opposite actually, nomad 3 was crap on air and coil was better while the nomad 4 is better with air shock
@@obi-wankenobi9871 acs3 conversion has an air bumpstop for the top 35% of travel, its as progressive as any air fork ive tried. I converted a 160mm lyrik and will never go back even if i could, which you cant.
Is there something like a good coil rear shock under $400? Most of the ones I've seen are too expensive and I'm just a casual biker who goes out once or twice a week. I have a Rockshox Recon RL which costed around $350 for the front suspension, I wouldn't expect to spend more than that for a coil shock. The same happens with the fork, I wanted to upgrade my SR Suntour because it was too damn basic and the travel was poor as soon as you enter the mountains, didn't find a good coil for that price range and gave the Recon air fork a spin. I don't regret it becaue I like how it feels, but I'd like to keep my rear shock in coil.
I'm not sure of anything new in that price range that won't be basic. You can try pinkbike.com for some used coil shocks that might be in your price range. If you can up your budget a bit more, something like this will make you happy for awhile www.jensonusa.com/Dvo-Jade-Coil-Rear-Shock.
James Stoup thanks, it does look nice but that's the problem I currently find with coil: love the feeling, hate the price, is not available for anyone. I guess I'll save a bit more to make the switch.
Is it the 36 with the GRIP damper or FIT damper? It looks like the performance has just the LSC adjuster? Either way I think my answer is the same. If you issue is with the air spring it will definitely be worth it. If you think the issue you are having is with the damper, then changing the spring won't do much for you. Much of the issue I had with my stock 36 was the fork feeling harsh at high speeds, and not using full travel with correct sag. I tried different air pressures, but I think that the air spring was not equalizing properly, or it was sticking too much. With the change, I run more HSC and LSC (I know you don't have this). I do this because the fork seems more plush, has less high speed chatter, and I can tune my ride height instead of trying to get the fork to feel good. So going back to the above, if it's the spring, the ACS-3 kit will really balance with your 11-6. If you think that it's more of a damper issue, a custom tune from PUSH or an Avalanche cartridge will get ya what you need. Hope that helps!
thanks for the awesome reply. i have the fox performance with the grip damper, ( so i have firm, medium and open fixed compression settings) i think my issue is with the spring itself. i have many of the same gripes you have about harshness at high speed etc. i have tossed around the idea of the avalanche cartridge too but im not sure which one is going to benefit me the most, right now seems like the acs based on your insight.
They're both good and you'll be happy either way. Plus to the Ava (since that's not covered in the video) is that it's super simple to bleed and change the oil in the damper. In some ways it pays for itself due to simpler maintenance that you can more easily do yourself.
They're generally pretty quick as far as turn around goes. If they're slammed it'll take longer, but mine was done in under 3 days or so for a revalve.
Wanted to switch to coil rear shock but can’t find 1 that’ll fit my frame (2015 commercial AM V4 ) . The rear shock kinda fits inside the top tube. Tried RockShox, cane Creek and fox. Stupid frame!!!😡
Super awesome. I noticed the biggest difference with the fork. Obviously it feels completely different. It's far more supple off the top, so small bump is way better. There doesn't seem as much stiction (extra seal in the air shaft for the 36) so it moves better. Well worth the upgrade, you will not be disappointed at all. Unless you're a weight weenie :)
James Stoup thanks for the info! I'm not too concerned about weight! Already have a coil shock on my bike, I've just been thinking about matching the front to the back
The TLDW is the spring change makes a huge difference. You gain more plushness and less high speed chatter. You don't lose much in the way of tuning (unless you're in between 2 spring rates). I think it's well worth it.
@@JamesStoup OH NO! No more PUSH coil? HA!HA! What have you switched to? I am considering this coil and fork setup so would be curious what made you switch to something else. I've watched lots of your videos - always a first class job. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and opinions.
@@sparky9864 Biggest thing was a new bike. For the fork, I've actually gone back to air. It's a little harsher on the hands, but eats up big hits better than the ACS3 did IMO. The bumpstop just felt weird to me. On the rear I have a custom tuned Marzocchi Bomber CR. It's half the price (after being tuned) and 95-100% the same performance as the 11-6, just not as expensive. I don't ever use a climb switch so the dual circuit on 11-6 never got used. Some people will use it and love it, but to me it was gimicky. And I'll also argue, that a well tuned shock will have enough LSC that makes a climb switch pretty irrelevant.
@@JamesStoup Thanks for taking the time to reply and for the information. I found your bike build video - sweet! Was watching the Glorieta series when I got your reply. Thanks again and good luck with the races!
Thanks for posting this, James. Did you also look at the Fox DHX2 and if so, what made you pick the 11-6 vs. the DHX2? I'm on the fence on both for my Wreckoning. The DHX2 is appealing to me on the $ side, and is available with a climb switch. What do you think?
Ryan Schlagheck I did look at the DHX2. The biggest reason I did the 11-6 instead was because I found one for the same price as it would have been to get a DHX2 with the correct spring. PUSH does demo sales and you can pick one up for a more reasonable price. You can’t go wrong with the DHX2 however. Pluses to the 11.6 is that the spring isn’t supposed to lose tension over time like most other Springs. They will also custom tune the valve to match your ride weight and ride style and Bike. You really can’t go wrong either way.
Oh I’ll add hat I don’t feel the need for a climb switch. However the 11-6 has two compression settings. You can have one setup as a climb switch if you’d prefer and the other as a downhill setting.
James Stoup Thank you James and good info all around! I have experience with the Float X2 on two bikes and think I'd be happy with the DHX2 on my Wreck, and the weight diff with an SLS spring vs the 11-6 helps sway me, too. That said, an 11-6 at DHX2 money sure is interesting to me! Thanks for the info!
OK hear is why I chose Push (i'm a past customer FYI) I have been riding for a long time and air has never felt right for me (i could never get it to feel like everyone said theirs was) So when I built my Dream bike after a major surgery I said "spare no expense if they are the best and they are what the pro's use then i'm in. If this doesn't work then I give up." So my new frame strait out of the box got an 11/6 and WOW! I went and rode it on "Mount Falcon" and anyone will tell you that is one rough ascent/descent. First it climbed better than anything ive used. and the rear disappeared under me on the descent... My buddy asked me when we stopped "well how did it feel?" and i just stood their with my mouth open. I said "I don't know, I didn't feel a thing. I forgot all about it." And that was the truth, It did so well the rear end disappeared under me. I don't care how much it weighs IT IS AMAZING.
I absolutely love the ACS-3 in my 36 on my Pivot Switchblade. It is the best feeling fork I've had and I've done some cool stuff to forks in the past. I have a float x2 right now and often consider going for the push or not! It really depends on where I end up moving in the next year to finish out my doctorates. If the terrain is right then I'll make the plunge!
It's rad for sure. Though I'd say it's more of an air vs coil decision than anything. I don't really use the 2nd valve which is their biggest selling point on the shock. It runs pretty amazingly in the DH mode even for climbs.
James Stoup yeah for me is a suppleness decision. Keep in mind I’ve never ridden a coil with a climb switch where it changes that mid stroke and initial valve spike so I’m sure I’d be super stoked on the 11-6. I love the idea of consistency in shock performance though!!!
I have a nomad and spoke with a rep a few days ago. I’m 30 min away from the shop. You aren’t helping my wallet... still like my setup but more is to be desired especially for devils backbone and horsetooth mtn etc. That’s a crazy trial. I’ll have to check it out
Hi James .. i do have an older gen of coil forks on my bike .. i just love it .. i think air is not stable enough from time to time and a lot of bounces .. i would say "too plush" .. i have been saying this for long time .. and i say it again .. "love coil" even if it's old school .. ;-)
Right? It's weird, every year a new fork comes out with an upgraded air spring. I guess you can't really do that as much with coil so harder to sell product. Totally agree with you on air not being stable! It starts behaving weird on long descents. Coil for me!
Way cheaper for sure. I also think that switching forks isn't really worthwhile unless you don't like the damper. If you're happy with the damper and just want better small bump/high speed chatter reduction with less stiction, acs-3 is the way to go!
James Stoup I jumped on a nomad with full coil... The feeling of being planted was pretty amazing... The charger two damper seems great. Honestly, if I get to a point where I didn't like that damper there are other solutions for that as well! Ha!
I get acs3 coil conversion ion myTrek rail5 withb blue coil and have great expiriance with fox 36 .only when i get to last 35 pecent of travel i have first da klank niose maybe beacuse i put too much air .Trek rail is 25kg bike so i was scared on big jumps to get to end of travel and maybe that is the problem .i put 80psi of air so when travel get air is to hard .so i lower to 50psi and work ok maybe 10 more psi and it will be perfect.in general coil make my fox 36 ultimat to amaizing fork and i recom. to everevone who can find asc3 kit from PUSH Industris.rear shock is ROCKSHOK Select with Niklproof 400/65 light coil and have perfect balance with fork.
x2 is a very good shock!! BUT if you dont how how to properly adjust the dials then its not the right shock for a average person.. PUSH is def the way to go... Slap in in your bike and shred...
x2 is an amazing shock! I'm blown away how good it is an an airshock, though it definitely has a lot of adjustments that you need to play around with. It's definitely not a set and forget shock.
Man, I've got a new video coming soon that goes over this. I literately just did this. Long answer turned short, for the same price as getting a x2/dhx2 I can get a custom tuned VAN that runs circles around the float. So good!
Springs can be made lighter. In the same way that Swift makes springs for cars with far fewer coils in each spring. But it's more expensive. There are a number of downsides to air, and you touched on most of them. But they are very tuneable and versatile with just a pump. Springs can't match that versatility. It's a trade-off either way I think. Just gotta decide what you are able to live with.
Yes absolutely. While the 11-6 doesn't get you the adjustments of air, the custom tune in this case negates a lot of that. However the ACS-3 is awesome because it keeps a lot of the tuneability of the fork with coil. The air bump stop are your volume spacers, and as long as you're happy with your spring rate, you've got tuning options. It's always a trade off, and you've gotta pick the one that gives you most of what you want, or less of what you don't want.
I agree with the sentiment I've always maintained that air shocks were a bunch of hype when they first came out. And of course all the MTB Muppets jumped on the bandwagon without knowing a lick about physics or real performance. Obviously the big Advantage with air is weight and finite adjustability with regard to Spring rate. Although spring rate on a coil is much more linear and consistent. And even though air shocks have improved tremendously they will still never be able to match a good top-line coil shock. You can't argue against physics and science, although there are plenty of Fanboys who try 😄
@@archetypex65 Agreed. Marketing really gets the best of some of us mountain bikers. Ironically enough air with tons of adjustment outside of the suspension is better for manufacturers because they spend less money on making the product, it fits and works with every bike, they don't have tons of product sitting on the shelf, and now they just reap tons of profit. Profit that goes back into marketing to tell people how the new generation of their air suspension is more "coil" like. It never is. Unless you race XC or DH I really don't see the weight argument.
Pretty sure you already knew what you wanted to say in this vid before you even received the new bits. I'd call this less of a first impression and more of a theoretical justification to your wife of why you had to spend more money on your bike.
Pretty sure you already knew what you wanted to respond before you typed it out. I'd call this less of a insightful response and more of an assumption about my life (which is untrue) or jealousy. Thanks for watching!
@@JamesStoup of course I knew what I wanted to respond before I typed it. Otherwise I'd just be mashing the keys like this.. Fhfdhvghvjigfgjjfvnxhbkj I'm not jealous, I'm interested in getting Push suspension which is why I was disappointed with your misleadingly titled video. All you said was generic stuff about why you like coil suspension. Stuff which has been said over and over again every time the coil VS air question comes up and nothing about the Push stuff specifically. How was it to set up? How does the damping characteristics compare to the Fox shock you had? How was it compared to the other coil stuff you had? I think I remember you said you used to have coil before.. I wasn't a complete waste of my time watching it though, at least I have a good script for when I have to justify to my wife why I need to spend more money on bikes. P.S. Sorry if I offended you by presuming you had a wife.. Husband maybe?
@@smuy3782 Haha. Specifically regarding PUSH - not worth the $$. You're basically paying 2-3x as much for the ability to have 2 damper tunes. A well tuned damper doesn't require a climb switch. Buy a Marzocchi Bomber CR and send it to Avalanche. You'll spend half as much and get the same thing. Dampening characteristics were significantly better. Not sure how much explaining I need to do there. Fox uses the same shock for OEM that uses a smaller midvalve with poppets for adjustments. VS a custom tuned shimstack for your weight, bike, and riding style. Long story short custom tune > OEM period, regardless of whether you're using a coil or an air spring. All you're getting with PUSH is bling factor and custom tuned coil. Skip the bling and get the same performance elsewhere. RE: ACS-3 - I didn't like it. The concept is good, but the execution wasn't so hot. #1 they don't offer 180mm conversion, #2 they have/had issues with one of the parts near the topout that would break, #3 seals go back on the air bump stop, #4 the air bump stop felt super weird compared to some of the other alternatives. Dampening didn't change since I kept the same damper, but the fork was more supple and tracked the ground better. Bottom out was just really weird. So my suggestion is - 1. Send your shock or a coil off to Avalanche to get tuned. After you sell your old shock (if you buy a replacement) you'll come out saving more money. 2. If you want your fork done as well, I'd recommend the vorsprung smashpot. I haven't ridden it, but the design looks pretty bombproof compared to the other alternatives. Or get an avalanche damper. Or do both. Keep the money you've saved and now try to figure out the script you need to tell your wife why you're getting a new set of wheels :)
I like how you dump it at 5:06 in the spot where you told me "this isn't so bad, you can roll it." Lol
Haha yea. That was more an issue with my gimbal deciding it wanted to stop working cause it hit my leg.
that traction felt amazing on this vid. the suspension works really well, i this i will love once i do buy it !!!
Thanks James for a high quality, inspiring and informative video.
It seems that over the years research and development in air suspension technology has progressed way beyond R & D in coil suspension technology. So there is much room for development of coil shocks and forks.
If revived interest in coil shocks and forks continues and even increases then maybe we'll see such needed development of coil suspension technology.
Coil shocks and forks might then become lighter and offer more adjustable functions and other features similar or identical to those of air shocks and forks.
Thanks! I appreciate a deeper look into the benefits and tradeoffs of coil suspension. I swapped to a coil shock a couple years ago and love it. Going full coil would be nice, although like you say it is a little heavy. When I ride with full rigid 29-er riding friends I can't keep up on long climbs and I have to slow down for them on some descents. I prefer that grip with low stiction, but there is a tradeoff in weight. My rollover would always be an issue since I am on 26" wheels, so my riding group is an extreme comparison.
Super bikes with messy cables make me a sad panda
It's better now fo sure, but still no excuse for that nest of garbage up front.
Pretty excited most people do install on the ACS3 but no real reviews thanks for the video!
I love White Ranch (one of my favorites) I live in Arvada. I have the 11/6 and air has never worked for me. I just talked to them today and found out about this option, i'm getting it done Monday and having my old 11/6 upgraded to the new build. Great video brother I liked your commentary.
We should go ride some time ! PEACE
Thanks man! White Ranch is by far my favorite go to within 20 minutes. Glad you're getting some upgraded parts for the 11/6. So much sweeter. Would love to ride. My wife and I moved into an RV, but we'll be back in the area. I'll keep our whereabouts up to date here and other social media. Will hit you up when we're back in CO!
just put the ACS3kit in my Lyrik today and also putting on an 11-6 shock. cant wait to get out this weekend
Sick!!! You'll love it!
that trail looks amazing, really nice riding, great cam quality, you deserve more subs, great vid.
Thanks man. I just want to create cool stuff for other people to enjoy the same things I do.
awesome video dude!
5:16 recap? :)
@James Stoup
So how do you manage the travels with the bikebag now?
Cause you can't lock the compressed coil into place right ?
Will finally get a bike again after 5years without biking (had to sell my dh for food, that's how poor i was) and i admit i never thought about the hassle it will be to reset the both suspensions every time.
Also how hard was it fitting the push into the fork? i assume you need a lot of tools in order to do that.
I don't use a bike bag for my bike anymore since I'm able to drive to all of my travel destinations. That being said, I never had an issue with getting the bike into my EVOC bike bag as is. Even when I had air shocks on the bike, I didn't let out any of the pressure.
Glad you're getting back into biking again. It really is fun. Don't sweat having to reset your suspension all the time. I've not had to do it much at all.
Installing the coil in the fork wasn't too hard. You need some tools for sure -- I think they list them on their website. If not, you can always send the fork to PUSH and have them install it for you.
James Stoup I'm in europe so sending the fork to push would cost me more than buying the tools imo :D
I will try my fork as is (fox 36 grip2) and see how it feels on the long runs.
Thing is, you can't go back to air anymore and having never tested the push i would be quite mad if i didn't like it after putting it in the fork :/ (since the fork is brand new)
What size is your frame? apparently XL+ frames have some troubles fitting in EVOC bikebags
Yeah riding was really fun, can't wait to get back on the bike ! 3months to get the money i need for the rest of the parts together and UK here i come :D
You can't go back to air after switching to coil for sure. I think there's a EU distributor though you can talk to or demo. www.tftuned.com/
I’ve always liked coil shocks/forks. I have my 2012 Pivot Mach 5.7 with Marzocchi RC3’s with Avalanche kit and Avalanche Woodie rear shock. So nice it’s ridiculous. Plush and small bump compliance is terrific.
Long story short, the extra grams are well worth it. I totally agree with you.
So agree with you. I'm super sad Marzocchi isn't around anymore. I had a 888 Ti that was freaking awesome. Amazing fork. Now they're basically rebranded Fox :/
Nice video.
Whats the weight "penalty" ?
Dunno. For me not a penalty because the performance is far superior.
Do you Pump the Suspension up ist on the bike an Fill it up again and do you have your old air Suspension
Good video and insight to the coil switch. I too switched to a coil on the back end of my slayer and am loving it. May well switch to an mrp ribbon coil up front, we'll see.
Please please please sort out your cables up front though hehe 👌
Yea they're really nasty right now. That's todays job!
Hi James. I have the same suspension setup you have on an aluminium 29er enduro bike. Looking to get a smash pot and a fast fenix rear coil shock as they don't make an 11 6 for my bike.
Are you able to carry more speed through rock Gardens, over roots etc and have you noticed any reduction in arm pump if you have descents long enough?
Thanks
Jonny
Hey Jonny. Glad to hear you're making the switch. To answer your question, yes I can carry way more speed. The coil setup doesn't get overheated and lose dampening on long descents. Coil is so supple that it eats all smaller chunk no problem, and with the additional midstroke support, it still feels very supportive. I have way less arm pump on coil than the air setup I've run previously. And no problems jumping anything I need on the trail as well.
@@JamesStoup Amazing. Thanks so much. Im going to the alps this summer. Would you upgrade the forks to coil first to remove arm pump? I ride clipped in so not so much of an issue with feet being blown off the pedals.
Thanks again
@@jonathanhowson6420 front and rear work together. Changes to the rear can have a pretty big effect on the front that causes arm pump. I'd get a bike setup that you feel comfortable on more than trying something new just to avoid arm pump. Don't want to be trying to dial in your setup while on facation.
@@JamesStoup just to let you know I bought a Vorsprung Smashpot and upgraded the front to 170mm and then got a Push 11 6 for the rear. The coil made a huge difference in the alps last summer along with the ridiculous power of some Magura Mt7 brakes. Coil all the way for me now :)
just installed the acs3 in a 2018 fox 36 160 fit4. can't wait to go out and ride. what's ur weight, coil color, lsc, hsc, reb set to ?
I'm about 185 all kitted up. I used this chart to set it up. www.pushindustries.com/pages/ac3-support I got the green coil for my 170mm. I set LSC to 12 from closed and HSC 14 from closed. That being said, my LSC and HSC could use a bit more dialing in, and aren't correct from their chart (they base it from the open position). Rebound is different too, so I set that based on feel.
Added weight to a bike can easily be countered by getting stronger as a rider. A couple more trips to the gym, a couple less beers, either way it's an easy fix.
But poor suspension performance because of how lousy air shocks/forks are results in learning poor riding techniques to compensate.
Which would you rather be? Stronger with top notch suspension? Or weak with poor riding skills and a super finicky shock? The choice was easy for me.
Man I jumped on coil shocks the moment they started making them for trail bikes. Haven't gone air fork yet but I will soon. Such a big difference. And Darren and the guys at PUSH are awesome. Many of my friends run 11-6's. I'm on Cane Creek because I'm a poor dirtbag.
Sidenote: Yer Knooooooooooolly. Nom nom nom nom. I need a cold shower now. ;)
Great video! Subbed.
Yes, this absolutely! Suspension setup is so important, because setup wrong you train your body to do all the wrong things. Breaking bad habits is really hard, so it's better to learn the right way first.
Cane Creek is awesome too! I know some people have issues with their reliability, but I've not had issues with any that I've run. Ride what ya brought!
Dude I love my bike! It's so awesome, thanks for the compliments and sub. :) If I end up your direction, I'll hit you up and we can ride!
Is it true that coil shocks work better for bigger riders?
I'm not a big guy, so take what I say with a grain of salt. My understanding of bigger guys using coil is due to PSI limits on air springs. At a certain weight you'll hit the max PSI and you still may not end up at the correct sag. Coil resolves this since there isn't an air spring with a max PSI. The issue that a lot of bigger guys will run into is that they will need to service their suspension more often. My understanding is that the higher pressures put more stress on the damper. Speaking of the damper, due to being bigger, they're not valved for bigger guys. So they just sort of work, instead of working really well.
James Stoup Thank you so much brother! That’s pretty much my understanding as well.
As a lighter guy, I like coil because it reacts to smaller hits.
I have the sudden dilemma of needing to replace my TALAS spring in my 2016 Fox 36. I thinking about the ACS3 and ride the same trails as you. What's your 6 month verdict? Worth every penny? Also how is the climbing with the ACS3. Does the small bump improvement and suppleness help in climbing; ie stopping you from being bumped off line by baby heads?
BTW, I think you deserve more subs so I subbed!
Colorado Biking sorry to hear about the TALAS spring Kerry. 6 month verdict is that it’s awesome. Definitely worth the cash if you have to get a new fork or replace an air spring anyway. It’s hard to say about getting bumped off line. I don’t notice getting bumped off line, but the bike this is on is really slacked out and heavy. My climbing has gotten better so maybe it’s that? It is way more supple than an air fork. That first bit of travel feels really really nice. I definitely recommend it. The upgrade is heavier so if you care about weight you won’t like it. I don’t notice it really.
Thanks for watching and subbing. I’ve been watching your videos for awhile now. LHOV looks awesome but unfortunately I didn’t get to ride it before my wife and I hit the road. I’d love to go riding with you when we loop back around your direction. Keep me posted on whether you get the upgrade or not!
Thanks for the feedback. Ping me when you're back and let's get a ride in.
Nice video on the push coil. Good info! Do you drive an xterra? Looks very familiar in your video in the car.
Thanks! It's a Tacoma, but I'm driving a Tundra now!
How do you feel about pop? Does it feel as lively and poppy as on an air shock? I’m thinking of a push upgrade on my evil.
no
You should look into the dvo jade. Very solid shock and super plush. People say it’s the best out there
I'd love to try one out. There are some good air shocks out there, and I've really been digging the MRP Stage I've got on my other bike.
It's probably a very good shock but it's hard to argue that Öhlins is probably the best coil ou there. TTX 22M
@@archetypex65 Ohlins makes the hands down worst MTB suspension..
Do you have any clue on how I should setup my fox dhx2?
Sorry bro can't help ya other than talk to the manufacturer of your bike. Different frames have different setups that a blanket set of settings just won't work for.
Do you know the tuning guide for the dhx2? My dhx2 ride perfect with the setup from the tuning guide
You live in the area of White Ranch, like outside of Golden and Boulder? I live in Golden, would love to ride sometime if you are around
Hey Charles, not so much anymore, but we used to. We're lucky that we get to do a lot of traveling throughout the US now. We'll be back in the area though, so stay in touch and I'll hit you up when we're back. Thanks for watching!
Awesome! Let me know when your in the area and we can ride somewhere.
My friend Ben swears up and down that his push rear shock made his bike feel like a totally different bike. He even offered to throw it on mine. To try to make me pull the trigger on one. What do u think?
If your bike can take a coil shock, it's rad. If it can't, there are options for custom tunes that are well worth it. I'd take a custom air shock over a coil for sure though. You can't go wrong either way, and it definitely feels like a totally different bike.
James Stoup yes it will fit. We both ride nomad 3s. He says we can trade for a week to see what I think. We are similar in weight as well about 5lbs off.
Definitely do it. Disclaimer, your buddy won't be getting it back ;)
James Stoup hahaha too funny weak.
not a fan of coils myself but can completely understand why you wanna change out in you area are the trails loose and jumpy??
Better support over high speed bumps. I like riding tech trails and coil seemed to hold up a bit better through that stuff.
James Stoup yea I like flowy jumpy trail can't get into techy stuff although ews is my shit
Pretty much if you have ever ridden a DH bike, it is near impossible to switch back to an Air shock. I used the stock air shock on my Nomad 4 for most of Snow summit bike season last year after trading up my Giant Glory Advanced. And you fell the rock gardens for sure with an air shock. I got a Cane creek CS coil and a Conrad Helm and there's a huge difference. There's also more confidence. The added weight is nice, because I don't second guess myself on jumps or drops. Its definitely a different feel, but it is also subjective. I've met plenty of riders at the DH park that prefer Air shocks and over coil. Their reasoning was all the same, less pre-load upon hit the jump.
But I still stand by the engineering. You can tell when a bike was designed for a coil or an air shock. Pretty much YT bikes entire line was designed with an air shock in mind. Hence why you see Arron Gwinn sporting the stock Tues. But So a SC V10 or Nomad 4 those were definitely designed with a coil shock. The linkage plays a huge role in the kinematics of the bike.
Conclusion: Should people be completely sold into getting a coil. Fuck no. But if you have never ridden on a coil bike, people should test it out. Go to a bike shop and rent a bike with a coil set up that has similar kinematic design as your current bike. Do this before you drop the money and realize coil isn't for you.
This so much! Thanks for the comment. Coil definitely isn't for everyone, but it seems to suit more aggressive riding than air. Like you said, different bikes work well with coil and others don't work at all. I've seen plenty of coils on bikes that shouldn't have them, and then folks wonder why they don't like it.
You dont even need to switch to a dh bike to notice that. I got a Cane Creek DB coil CS and all my friend feel like riding on clouds when using my bike, because they all have air shocks. In the rear a coil is definitely the way to go if your frame works with that, but up front i have my doubt, because you reall lack the progessivity.
I don't understand, why would you second guess yourself if the bike weights less ?
I get your point about DH bikes but don't forget that nowadays you can have a DH bike with an air shock ;)
Are you using your nomad in the low or high setting?
Thought it was the opposite actually, nomad 3 was crap on air and coil was better while the nomad 4 is better with air shock
@@thibautnoah2599 A heavier bike is more stable.
@@obi-wankenobi9871 acs3 conversion has an air bumpstop for the top 35% of travel, its as progressive as any air fork ive tried. I converted a 160mm lyrik and will never go back even if i could, which you cant.
Is there something like a good coil rear shock under $400? Most of the ones I've seen are too expensive and I'm just a casual biker who goes out once or twice a week. I have a Rockshox Recon RL which costed around $350 for the front suspension, I wouldn't expect to spend more than that for a coil shock. The same happens with the fork, I wanted to upgrade my SR Suntour because it was too damn basic and the travel was poor as soon as you enter the mountains, didn't find a good coil for that price range and gave the Recon air fork a spin. I don't regret it becaue I like how it feels, but I'd like to keep my rear shock in coil.
I'm not sure of anything new in that price range that won't be basic. You can try pinkbike.com for some used coil shocks that might be in your price range. If you can up your budget a bit more, something like this will make you happy for awhile www.jensonusa.com/Dvo-Jade-Coil-Rear-Shock.
James Stoup thanks, it does look nice but that's the problem I currently find with coil: love the feeling, hate the price, is not available for anyone. I guess I'll save a bit more to make the switch.
Juan Carlos Alpízar I’ve heard the Rockshox Kage works great if your bike doesn’t have a weird leverage curve
i have the 11-6, is the acs3 upgrade worth it on a fox 36 performance with no hsc/lsc adjustment?
Is it the 36 with the GRIP damper or FIT damper? It looks like the performance has just the LSC adjuster? Either way I think my answer is the same.
If you issue is with the air spring it will definitely be worth it. If you think the issue you are having is with the damper, then changing the spring won't do much for you. Much of the issue I had with my stock 36 was the fork feeling harsh at high speeds, and not using full travel with correct sag. I tried different air pressures, but I think that the air spring was not equalizing properly, or it was sticking too much.
With the change, I run more HSC and LSC (I know you don't have this). I do this because the fork seems more plush, has less high speed chatter, and I can tune my ride height instead of trying to get the fork to feel good.
So going back to the above, if it's the spring, the ACS-3 kit will really balance with your 11-6. If you think that it's more of a damper issue, a custom tune from PUSH or an Avalanche cartridge will get ya what you need. Hope that helps!
thanks for the awesome reply. i have the fox performance with the grip damper, ( so i have firm, medium and open fixed compression settings) i think my issue is with the spring itself. i have many of the same gripes you have about harshness at high speed etc.
i have tossed around the idea of the avalanche cartridge too but im not sure which one is going to benefit me the most, right now seems like the acs based on your insight.
They're both good and you'll be happy either way. Plus to the Ava (since that's not covered in the video) is that it's super simple to bleed and change the oil in the damper. In some ways it pays for itself due to simpler maintenance that you can more easily do yourself.
Once you ordered your shock from Push, how long did it take you until you were able to pick it up?
They're generally pretty quick as far as turn around goes. If they're slammed it'll take longer, but mine was done in under 3 days or so for a revalve.
Awesome, thanks for the quick response dude.
This video is blowing up nice job
Dude, the Knolly looks sweet!!! Nice taste in suspension components!
Thanks man! It rips. Thanks for watching and for the subscription :)
Dope, man! Which area in Colorado do you live? Let's ride!
Thanks man. I'm down in Denver. Totally down to ride. Shoot me an email or a message and let's set something up!
Wanted to switch to coil rear shock but can’t find 1 that’ll fit my frame (2015 commercial AM V4 ) . The rear shock kinda fits inside the top tube. Tried RockShox, cane Creek and fox. Stupid frame!!!😡
That sucks. Do any of them fit if you flip the shock around?
Not sure... might try that though. Thanks man 🤙
Sweet trail system!
Rad! How are you liking the conversion for the fork? Been considering it for my Lyrik
Super awesome. I noticed the biggest difference with the fork. Obviously it feels completely different. It's far more supple off the top, so small bump is way better. There doesn't seem as much stiction (extra seal in the air shaft for the 36) so it moves better. Well worth the upgrade, you will not be disappointed at all. Unless you're a weight weenie :)
James Stoup thanks for the info! I'm not too concerned about weight! Already have a coil shock on my bike, I've just been thinking about matching the front to the back
You won't regret it at all, and probably the cheapest option. Let me know your thoughts if you pull the trigger.
Coil 👍
that's a sick bike
Nice bike mate
How much difference between your air vs acs3 conversation? Is it worth spending $389 thanks
The TLDW is the spring change makes a huge difference. You gain more plushness and less high speed chatter. You don't lose much in the way of tuning (unless you're in between 2 spring rates). I think it's well worth it.
Awesome trail and review! I have ACS3 and have put in maybe 800 miles on mine. How much sag do you have on yours if you don't mind sharing? Thanks!
I don't have this setup anymore, but I ran about 15-20% on mine.
@@JamesStoup OH NO! No more PUSH coil? HA!HA! What have you switched to? I am considering this coil and fork setup so would be curious what made you switch to something else. I've watched lots of your videos - always a first class job. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and opinions.
@@sparky9864 Biggest thing was a new bike. For the fork, I've actually gone back to air. It's a little harsher on the hands, but eats up big hits better than the ACS3 did IMO. The bumpstop just felt weird to me.
On the rear I have a custom tuned Marzocchi Bomber CR. It's half the price (after being tuned) and 95-100% the same performance as the 11-6, just not as expensive. I don't ever use a climb switch so the dual circuit on 11-6 never got used. Some people will use it and love it, but to me it was gimicky. And I'll also argue, that a well tuned shock will have enough LSC that makes a climb switch pretty irrelevant.
@@JamesStoup Thanks for taking the time to reply and for the information. I found your bike build video - sweet! Was watching the Glorieta series when I got your reply. Thanks again and good luck with the races!
Thanks for posting this, James. Did you also look at the Fox DHX2 and if so, what made you pick the 11-6 vs. the DHX2? I'm on the fence on both for my Wreckoning. The DHX2 is appealing to me on the $ side, and is available with a climb switch. What do you think?
Ryan Schlagheck I did look at the DHX2. The biggest reason I did the 11-6 instead was because I found one for the same price as it would have been to get a DHX2 with the correct spring. PUSH does demo sales and you can pick one up for a more reasonable price.
You can’t go wrong with the DHX2 however. Pluses to the 11.6 is that the spring isn’t supposed to lose tension over time like most other Springs. They will also custom tune the valve to match your ride weight and ride style and Bike. You really can’t go wrong either way.
Oh I’ll add hat I don’t feel the need for a climb switch. However the 11-6 has two compression settings. You can have one setup as a climb switch if you’d prefer and the other as a downhill setting.
James Stoup Thank you James and good info all around! I have experience with the Float X2 on two bikes and think I'd be happy with the DHX2 on my Wreck, and the weight diff with an SLS spring vs the 11-6 helps sway me, too. That said, an 11-6 at DHX2 money sure is interesting to me! Thanks for the info!
OK hear is why I chose Push (i'm a past customer FYI) I have been riding for a long time and air has never felt right for me (i could never get it to feel like everyone said theirs was) So when I built my Dream bike after a major surgery I said "spare no expense if they are the best and they are what the pro's use then i'm in. If this doesn't work then I give up." So my new frame strait out of the box got an 11/6 and WOW! I went and rode it on "Mount Falcon" and anyone will tell you that is one rough ascent/descent. First it climbed better than anything ive used. and the rear disappeared under me on the descent... My buddy asked me when we stopped "well how did it feel?" and i just stood their with my mouth open. I said "I don't know, I didn't feel a thing. I forgot all about it." And that was the truth, It did so well the rear end disappeared under me. I don't care how much it weighs IT IS AMAZING.
First other person I've seen on UA-cam running a knolly! Huck yeah!!!
Cause they're the bomb!
I absolutely love the ACS-3 in my 36 on my Pivot Switchblade. It is the best feeling fork I've had and I've done some cool stuff to forks in the past. I have a float x2 right now and often consider going for the push or not! It really depends on where I end up moving in the next year to finish out my doctorates. If the terrain is right then I'll make the plunge!
It's rad for sure. Though I'd say it's more of an air vs coil decision than anything. I don't really use the 2nd valve which is their biggest selling point on the shock. It runs pretty amazingly in the DH mode even for climbs.
James Stoup yeah for me is a suppleness decision. Keep in mind I’ve never ridden a coil with a climb switch where it changes that mid stroke and initial valve spike so I’m sure I’d be super stoked on the 11-6. I love the idea of consistency in shock performance though!!!
Push and doctorate with a lower iq than me. Rich kid detected 😂
@@MikAnimal I’m the dumbest boy in the room! With all the billions and billions of dollars
@@Tkolbo_ not the dumbest but dumb
Eyes on the road dude, cool vid by the way👍
I have a nomad and spoke with a rep a few days ago. I’m 30 min away from the shop. You aren’t helping my wallet... still like my setup but more is to be desired especially for devils backbone and horsetooth mtn etc.
That’s a crazy trial. I’ll have to check it out
A Marzocchi Bomber CR tuned by Avalanche is basically the same thing (only 1 circuit though) for half the cost.
Nice Video, good info!
Thanks!
Hi James .. i do have an older gen of coil forks on my bike .. i just love it .. i think air is not stable enough from time to time and a lot of bounces .. i would say "too plush" .. i have been saying this for long time .. and i say it again .. "love coil" even if it's old school .. ;-)
Right? It's weird, every year a new fork comes out with an upgraded air spring. I guess you can't really do that as much with coil so harder to sell product. Totally agree with you on air not being stable! It starts behaving weird on long descents. Coil for me!
Have been weighing the pros and cons of an ac3 kit on my lyrik vs an mrp ribbon coil... This is way cheaper!
Way cheaper for sure. I also think that switching forks isn't really worthwhile unless you don't like the damper. If you're happy with the damper and just want better small bump/high speed chatter reduction with less stiction, acs-3 is the way to go!
James Stoup I jumped on a nomad with full coil... The feeling of being planted was pretty amazing... The charger two damper seems great. Honestly, if I get to a point where I didn't like that damper there are other solutions for that as well! Ha!
I get acs3 coil conversion ion myTrek rail5 withb blue coil and have great expiriance with fox 36 .only when i get to last 35 pecent of travel i have first da klank niose maybe beacuse i put too much air .Trek rail is 25kg bike so i was scared on big jumps to get to end of travel and maybe that is the problem .i put 80psi of air so when travel get air is to hard .so i lower to 50psi and work ok maybe 10 more psi and it will be perfect.in general coil make my fox 36 ultimat to amaizing fork and i recom. to everevone who can find asc3 kit from PUSH Industris.rear shock is ROCKSHOK Select with Niklproof 400/65 light coil and have perfect balance with fork.
x2 is a very good shock!! BUT if you dont how how to properly adjust the dials then its not the right shock for a average person.. PUSH is def the way to go... Slap in in your bike and shred...
x2 is an amazing shock! I'm blown away how good it is an an airshock, though it definitely has a lot of adjustments that you need to play around with. It's definitely not a set and forget shock.
Cool video, my last bike was also coil and the new bike is air. definately going to return to coil... plus 1 sub from me :)
Coil is the bomb for sure. Thanks for subbing and watching :)
underrated
Thanks dude!
@@JamesStoup no problem👍
Nice vid
It's so funny to think about, that people spend a lot of money to convert their Floats back into Vans ^^
Man, I've got a new video coming soon that goes over this. I literately just did this. Long answer turned short, for the same price as getting a x2/dhx2 I can get a custom tuned VAN that runs circles around the float. So good!
@@JamesStoup I also converted my bike from air to coil a year ago and MAN would I do it again! :) It's worth every single penny.
Air is way more adjustable for all kinds of riding! My two cents!
Hi there Alistair don't give up yet. Continuing development of coil shocks and forks will soon bring all coil suspension on par with air suspension.
Springs can be made lighter. In the same way that Swift makes springs for cars with far fewer coils in each spring. But it's more expensive.
There are a number of downsides to air, and you touched on most of them. But they are very tuneable and versatile with just a pump.
Springs can't match that versatility.
It's a trade-off either way I think. Just gotta decide what you are able to live with.
Yes absolutely. While the 11-6 doesn't get you the adjustments of air, the custom tune in this case negates a lot of that. However the ACS-3 is awesome because it keeps a lot of the tuneability of the fork with coil. The air bump stop are your volume spacers, and as long as you're happy with your spring rate, you've got tuning options.
It's always a trade off, and you've gotta pick the one that gives you most of what you want, or less of what you don't want.
I'm going with the fox coil. That one is way to expensive at over $1000
Air is dead..........
💨💨💨
I agree with the sentiment I've always maintained that air shocks were a bunch of hype when they first came out. And of course all the MTB Muppets jumped on the bandwagon without knowing a lick about physics or real performance. Obviously the big Advantage with air is weight and finite adjustability with regard to Spring rate. Although spring rate on a coil is much more linear and consistent. And even though air shocks have improved tremendously they will still never be able to match a good top-line coil shock. You can't argue against physics and science, although there are plenty of Fanboys who try 😄
@@archetypex65 Agreed. Marketing really gets the best of some of us mountain bikers. Ironically enough air with tons of adjustment outside of the suspension is better for manufacturers because they spend less money on making the product, it fits and works with every bike, they don't have tons of product sitting on the shelf, and now they just reap tons of profit. Profit that goes back into marketing to tell people how the new generation of their air suspension is more "coil" like. It never is. Unless you race XC or DH I really don't see the weight argument.
11.6 is good but expensive
I strongly disagree on your opinion that wood and wet don't go together 😉
Coil forever
Buy fox 36/manitou mezzer and close questions...
Coils>air
Pretty sure you already knew what you wanted to say in this vid before you even received the new bits.
I'd call this less of a first impression and more of a theoretical justification to your wife of why you had to spend more money on your bike.
Pretty sure you already knew what you wanted to respond before you typed it out. I'd call this less of a insightful response and more of an assumption about my life (which is untrue) or jealousy. Thanks for watching!
@@JamesStoup of course I knew what I wanted to respond before I typed it. Otherwise I'd just be mashing the keys like this.. Fhfdhvghvjigfgjjfvnxhbkj
I'm not jealous, I'm interested in getting Push suspension which is why I was disappointed with your misleadingly titled video.
All you said was generic stuff about why you like coil suspension. Stuff which has been said over and over again every time the coil VS air question comes up and nothing about the Push stuff specifically. How was it to set up? How does the damping characteristics compare to the Fox shock you had? How was it compared to the other coil stuff you had? I think I remember you said you used to have coil before..
I wasn't a complete waste of my time watching it though, at least I have a good script for when I have to justify to my wife why I need to spend more money on bikes.
P.S. Sorry if I offended you by presuming you had a wife.. Husband maybe?
@@smuy3782 Haha. Specifically regarding PUSH - not worth the $$. You're basically paying 2-3x as much for the ability to have 2 damper tunes. A well tuned damper doesn't require a climb switch. Buy a Marzocchi Bomber CR and send it to Avalanche. You'll spend half as much and get the same thing. Dampening characteristics were significantly better. Not sure how much explaining I need to do there. Fox uses the same shock for OEM that uses a smaller midvalve with poppets for adjustments. VS a custom tuned shimstack for your weight, bike, and riding style.
Long story short custom tune > OEM period, regardless of whether you're using a coil or an air spring. All you're getting with PUSH is bling factor and custom tuned coil. Skip the bling and get the same performance elsewhere.
RE: ACS-3 - I didn't like it. The concept is good, but the execution wasn't so hot. #1 they don't offer 180mm conversion, #2 they have/had issues with one of the parts near the topout that would break, #3 seals go back on the air bump stop, #4 the air bump stop felt super weird compared to some of the other alternatives. Dampening didn't change since I kept the same damper, but the fork was more supple and tracked the ground better. Bottom out was just really weird.
So my suggestion is - 1. Send your shock or a coil off to Avalanche to get tuned. After you sell your old shock (if you buy a replacement) you'll come out saving more money. 2. If you want your fork done as well, I'd recommend the vorsprung smashpot. I haven't ridden it, but the design looks pretty bombproof compared to the other alternatives. Or get an avalanche damper. Or do both. Keep the money you've saved and now try to figure out the script you need to tell your wife why you're getting a new set of wheels :)
@@JamesStoup legend! So hard to get an honest review of something someone has spent a lot of money on.
👍