In Adrian Newey's book he comments that all this power meant that teams didn't worry too much about aero - they could stick a big wing on and power through. You can kinda tell from the looks of a lot of the cars. But when turbos went it set the stage for aero developments to take over.
My friend was turbo technician / engineer for Lotus in that era. He said Senna insisted on getting a fresh turbo for his last ultimate qualifying lap in the session, so they developed a procedure to swap the turbo on a hot engine during the session in the pits. Amazing to think of them replacing 1000° turbos and sending him back out in just minutes. It’s all in the margins. Always has been in F1.
@@AmirPomenProbably bought extra manifolds and exhausts with them, undo the oil/coolant lines, send the manifold nuts off with an air tool.. Deal with actually removing the turbo from the exhaust once it’s cooled off.
I work in oil and fuel development. Ive seen and touched ceramic engines and turbos that are so thermally efficent that you can still handle them when they are glowing orange without burning yourself.. They are still uncomfortably hot, but it doesnt burn you. Yes its a head scrambler. Everything you know says dont touch it, but you can.
I always loved a quote from James Hunt regarding turbo F1 engines back in that era . "When you first hit the accelerator nothing happens , then Everything happens !"
As someone who loves classic F1 I love these historic videos you guys make. Really does an amazing job of putting the viewer in that time period where we can't take things like electronics and other technologies for granted.
The drivers know full-well what they're getting into, the cars have to be so light to counter the sheer weight of the balls needed to drive that fast, I say LET THEM COOK!
They were very concerned about safety in the 80's, well after the incidents of 1982 they were....they weren't very good at it, they were just learning...I'm not sure if the safety record for F1 in the 80's was due to the safety precautions or just pure luck.
Always remember that in light of these modern F1 fans that immediately crown Lewis or now Max as the greatest driver ever. Likely either one back in the day would not have lived long enough to rack up that many starts or wins. Imagine Jimmy Clark or Ayrton Senna in a current winning car? This year in particular Max V. is unchallenged, that's not great racing. Thus it cannot be considered a great accomplishment.
@@crusherbmxI bet Spa-Francorchamps had something to do with their gradual obsession over safety. Even in modern days, the track is still taxing the driver’s skills in a way others tracks struggle to do, and dont get me started on the old layout’s Masta Kink.
I'm so glad I was able to experience the amazing sounds of the Turbo engines of the 80s at the Detroit Grand Prix! The backfires, flames and the sound bouncing off the buildings of downtown Detroit!
I was in Detroit in 88. That was when F1 was spectacular. They might be turning faster lap times now but they don’t look on the edge of being out of control.
I got into f1 in 2014 but the 80s turbo is my favorite era. The sound is intoxicanting. The boost threshold of those days was imfamous. I heard once you get back on throttle way before you would in a normal response throttle.
This is the kind of video I absolutely LOVE from driver 61. Detailed history of racing tech development, with good storytelling and fascinating facts and context. Answering dozens of questions I didn’t know I even had! Thanks Scott and the whole Driver61 team. I’ve learned so much over the last couple years. You guys do an amazing job!
It would still be plenty fun to just drop the instantaneous fuel flow limit to see how much the current ICE elements could really make if fully uncorked in qualifying mode
remove RPM limit and fuel flow limit and I'm game... would love to see the drivers have an overboost button... just limit total fuel for race... need more Kablooeys
@@RCRitterFPV the rpm limit is (afaik) 15.000. when you look at the telemetry during a race you gonna see the drivers shifting at around 12.000rpm, so the rpm limit is not really a concern rigth now since the engines loose performence when reffing that high sadly (might be fuel economy also, but i'm not sure about that)
@@tommymaddox6785 Steel is stronger (and also not less dense than cast iron, for any practical purposes) but cast iron is much more brittle than steel. you can cold bend mild steel, roll it, knock dents out,... cast iron cracks from the stress of welding without proper heat treatment alone. So the presenter is very wrong, but you aren't correct either. But you probably didn't waste hours for it.
What's more insane is I worked for a company that supplied some of these engines with turbos and looked at the drawings and a few samples that came in for rebuilds (historic racing series) and they were surprisingly different than what is currently used. I would love to have one on the shelf to poke around and talk about with others.
Worth noting the current gen turbos are insane on a whole nother level, I've seen those too and they basically aren't turbos, they're like an entirely new technology.
@@turbo_brian Honda's initial turbo design for their 2015 engine wasn't the normal "snail" turbo, it was elongated to reduce its diameter to help with the "Size zero" concept, so it was ICE engine designers trying to make a turbine without really knowing how to build one. After it blew up every other race they went and asked their jet engine department for help. Now it's more of a "snail" turbo, but I would love to see the complexity of it...
I remember the days of turbo F-1 cars, in qualifying trim they came out of tight corners like a dragster! Up at the 1986 Montreal GP Mansell and Senna were battling for the pole and the speed and sound was incredible! Between shifts there would be an explosion like a stick of dynamite 🧨!!!
One thing you need to also remember is, they were pushing 1k+ horsepower in a car that had very basic steering/gearing so it was a major handful to drive these things. They were brutes, like bucking bronco's. Absolutely LOVE the early to mid 80's cars.
My dad got to see the Renaults at Watkins Glen in 77 and 78, and he said that the drivers would carry as much speed as they could through the corners, then get on the throttle and hope that the car was still pointed in the right direction coming out of the turn. He also noted that they would leave tracks on the uphill when the turbos kicked in, that's how much of a difference they made.
Maybe I'm in the minority, but i think it would be much more exciting to have formula 1 with the current cost cap and basic major outlines for car size and weight, but allowed the teams to choose how to get the results it wants in anyway. Id love to see v10s and v12s against turbo v6s and such. Im dreaming of course but man is it a fun daydream!
Yes, now that there is a cost cap, they should look at keeping other restrictions to a minimum. The cost cap will naturally limit things like fuel consumption, crashes and unreliability.
That's what WEC did (maximum downforce allowance), and it gave us the beauty that is the Peugeot. And honestly each hypercar is so different from one another. Absolutly love to see it
Awesome video - I just went to Watkins Glen this past weekend for the Sahlen’s Six Hours race. I sadly was born too late to see any F1 cars there, but I have had the privilege of seeing IndyCar there back in 2017.
I owned a 1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire back in the late 1970's that I bought from the original owner. I remember having to check a fluid it used called "Jetfire Turbo-Rocket Fluid. Yes TURBO. It was the first American car with a TURBO. It ran good, but when gas was being rationed it was a pain. The car averaged 9 MPG so it was not to great when I had to ride 47 miles each way to and from work each day. I sold it to get a more economical car with better MPG.
I WISH I would have been a little older to be able to really appreciate this. I feel like I totally missed out of such a cool, analog time in racing history.
Not only did using excess fuel cool the turbo for more power, but it could also be used to help eliminate turbo lag. Ferrari were the first to really capitalise on this (as far as I'm aware) midway through 1981 by combusting fuel INSIDE their turbo compressor to keep it spinning even when off throttle and reduce lag. Another big thing to note was that when McLaren were running their TAG-Porsche engine (late 1983-1987), they didn't run special qualifying engines like the other top teams. They'd turn up the qualifying boost pressure, but the likes of Renault (and their customer Lotus), BMW (with Brabham and later Benetton) and Honda with Williams would all run totally new engine blocks which were essentially disposable just for qualifying and could turn up the boost even higher as a result. It was therefore actually quite rare to see the McLaren-TAGs right up at the front in qualifying, even in 1984 where the car was truly dominant in races since in quali they were always at least 100 horsepower down on their main rivals. They made up for it however in race with their excellent engine management system provided by Bosch, solid reliability (though this began to waver especially in 1987 as it became clear that the engine was losing competitiveness, driving them to push it harder for more performance) and very solid power in race trim (since they ran less quali boost, this also meant they lost less power compared to their rivals going from quali to the race) One last minor thing, but the pictures you showed of the F1 car you drove around 4:40 were of the non-turbo Lotus 91 from 1982.
I did a lot of practice in simulator until finally I managed to deal with that turbo lag. It was annoying first but now it is quite fun. In the end I do something similar to what Senna did, popping throttle to keep revs high without spinning before exiting slow corners. And that works great with weak karts too.
I’d love to see you do a series on the technical aspects and innovations of super touring cars. Lots of manufacturer involvement with big money being thrown around towards the end. I have no doubts there’d be a lot of content there given all of the different brands and models in the categories life cycle and different approaches they all took to turn road cars into fully fledged race cars.
Excess fuel is also used in piston airplane engines, when you operate in high power mode, the fuel system adds ca 10% more fuel than it is necessary because most full power use happens during climb - when you are slower and less air passes through the air-cooled engine to cool it down :)
Some cars do it too. My fl5 civic type r will set the AFR to 11.5:1 for WOT under boost. That means in those conditions it injects 12% more fuel than there is oxygen to burn it with.
@@ASJC27 It's the common way to reduce the exhaust gas temperature (EGT) to stay under the limit for gasoline engines. For diesel engines, as you're in excess of air, you usually reduce/limit the fuel injected to limit the temperature.
Yes, pretty standard in aircraft engines. I fly with a Lycoming YIO-540-exp. Takeoff is always done full rich regardless of field altitude to prevent the cylinders from overheating until we reach cruising speed and the airflow is enough to cool them. That isn’t my procedure- it is in the engine manual.
@@michaelschlachter1628 it seems your engine has an altitude compensating fuel system. Like a Cirrus SR20 with the Continental engine - anything but cruise is done full rich, even if you are 8000'. Do that in 99% of Lycos or Contis in ordinary planes and you will be glad to fly straight at that altitude :). I was mentioning the feature of many aircraft engines where the current mixture is enriched even more if you are at or very near the full throttle. I experienced throttle reducing by itself slightly on an aircraft without adjustable friction when I could not hold it by hand in the climb and the CHTs just went past 420F in a whim.
This kind of technological and technical competitiveness is what made me interested in F1. As a kid watching the F1 news analyzing each bit of design was always interesting. If F1 becomes spec series, I might stop watching it.
One of the main reasons you gotta love F1. When engineers go above and beyond around the rules. And often comes the best inventions ever that will lately improve road cars. Just art. And we do see that nowadays often too, but people quickly start hating instead of admiring it. F1 became too football alike with this new type of fans.
My favorite car in project cars 1 or 2 is Lotus 98T with turbo 100% ... indeed hard to control but when you feel the car you know you can do everything!
Thanks for that video Driver 61! Everytime good stories from that era. It's incredible how much infos and films I didn't see from that time. Good that you are here to show us.
This information is good to know since i am from the nineties F1 fan i didn't know about the eras before much. You did a great job with the video well done and keep ythe good work
Let's calm down a bit: It was not the power, but the size that was the key to the championship cars, as I will show below. Also, that was 1400 for qualifying w/ Paul Rosche's "Hitler chip" in the BT52 and crazy fuels and dry ice in the intercooler, and you could only do this if you could afford to shit out engines. There are guys drag racing old pickups w/ that kind of HP and nutty boost, it's not rocket science. Piquet had one blow the crankshaft out of the bottom of the monocoque and nail itself into the track, qualifying was really just "burst testing" engines for the players who could afford to. Nothing in F1 is as groundbreaking as it seems. In fact, Rosche had been developing that very same engine (the BMW M12) for TEN YEARS in other racing championships, they decided to run it in F1 after a go in Formula Two. These were modified M10 BMW engines from a family car going back 20 years w/ over 100k miles on them so the iron had been seasoned for high turbo boosting (the M12 model) and ppl took note when they saw them perform in IMSA well before F1. Turbos, fan cars, active aero, ground effects, CVTs and a pile of other tech originated in OTHER RACING CHAMPIONSHIPS like the technology free-for-all freak show known as CAN-AM. HOWEVER, the real main advantage of the inline-4 turbo over its V6 Ferrari and Renault rivals is evident when you look at the one massive turbo on the engine. With one fewer turbo, two fewer cylinders, and eight fewer valves, the Bt52 had lower frictional losses and, therefore, produced less waste heat. Anyone ever own one of the old air-cooled Suzuki GSX-R 750 sport bikes? I have, a 1988. You remember what it's like after it gets hot, right? Like riding through molasses power-wise. Heat is the enemy. But the "Fun Sized" Bt52 had another ace in the hole: Aero. Because it ran cooler, the BT52 could be designed w/ smaller radiators, which meant better aero efficiency and straight-line speed. When you look at the car next to its rivals, it's like an arrow and they are like flying saucers. Those very skinny, short sidepods made it king of the long straights. Qualifying is a power show, racing is where you're going to pick up those 10ths here and there lap after lap for 2 hours. Ergo, Renault may have pioneered turbos in F1 but they never won a world championship in the Turbo era because BALANCE is often they key to F1. That's generally the rule until something shows up like active suspension that alone can leave everyone in the dust.
Had a Buick grand national in 2001ish, a v8 always got a jump on me, but you wait for the boost wave and blow by. They were amazing machines. Have a hemi charger now and recently rented an Audi rs4 I believe. It had no lag at all but made me miss that wave of power you knew was coming.
Good old toluene. Another good one is xylene. You can buy that as paint thinners from the hardware. Much cheaper than octane booster and has incredible knock resistance
Having a diesel truck with a big turbo, the VGT design really is one of the best adaptations to happen to the turbocharger. My truck is 6.6L, I could only imagine spinning up the same size turbo with 1.5L🤯 Also I wonder if they ever thought of running methanol to cool those motors back then. Like diesel it has more BTU's and burns slower and cooler. I'm guessing though because it used twice as much👀
wasn't there a time when they ran methanol? was it around this time? top fuel doesnt even have a water jacket because they dump fuel in to keep it cool. its effective.
I was a pit lane flaggie and 2nd Medic at the AGP. The toluene smell emitting from the exhausts was unmistakable. And yes, the lag was bad. Nothing, nothing, nothing, noth...ROCKET!!!!!!
I remember the lotus turbo lag in games, think it was project cars 2, felt like you were accelerating in reverse lol floor it and let off as the turbo kicked in or the wheels would spin 😄
Toluene came from the fuel volume limit. It's energy density and knock resistance made up for its slow burnrate. They had to heat it before getting to the injectors...
I didn't think UA-cam allowed pornography! 😱😆 Damn! I miss the turbo era! Listening to Senna go round the outside of Prost blat-blat-blat-blat-Hoooooowl!
Senna & the rest...it's like they all had a special feel for those machines...crazy talent...back then with no kind of safety...no abs & traction control...wild era.
1985 Ayrton Senna's Lotus 97T (with Renault-Gordini F1 V6 Turbo engine) was accredited in Monza's saturday qualifying session of about 1470 HP!!! Engine was made to last about 3 to 5 laps and then swapped!
As a racing driver, Scott wrung out milliseconds off of the laptime. As a UA-camr, Scott struggles to push the video duration past the ten minute barrier.
It should be remembered, that 1400 hp from the BMW was strictly for qualification only, and then for a single lap. The race engines were considerably reduced in power to last the race distance. Then there was all the special fuels which bore little resemblance to what you'd find in your neighbourhood petrol station. However, I do recall seeing this crazy mad cars at Brands Hatch. I also recall the huge difference in performance between the top teams and the ones at the end of the grid in those days. It was clear which teams had the money to spend on such exotic technology, and the bottom teams would trail in several laps back.
Driving these things seems similar to race drivers talking about rs 500 sierras saying the turbo came on like a light switch and a lot of good drivers ended up facing the wrong way as the turbo came on
Fun fact that the bmw 4cil used old blocks(from dtm maybe?). If a block had any “bubble” on the casted metal it would have already cracked in the past, so an old block meant it was good/strong to handle the boost
No, the block came from the 2002 road car, it was first used as the base for BMW's F2 engine in the early 1970's. They found that the blocks had to have at least 60K km of use to be seasoned enough to stand up to racing stress. Later the race shops started artificially seasoning blocks for racing use.
@john jones I did read that they were seasoned outside and to speed up this process the blocks were urinated on by employees. A sterling effort by Team BMW.
@@astonzappa That's kind of an urban motersports myth, they were outside because the race dept initially was buying the cores from wrecking yards, the second part sound completely made up. The seasoning process has to do with how many heat cycles the block had gone through which tempers and stabilizes the metal, a fresh unit didn't have the integrity for a strong foundation.
@@johnjones928No, that’s a myth like all other nonsense related to that engine. Source: a bmw F1 guy (can’t remember his name) from that era on Die alte Schule podcast.
1986 lineup might be the best ever. World Champions: K.Rosberg, Senna, Prost, Mansell, Piquet. Amazing drivers: Berger, Alboreto, A.Jones, Laffitte, Arnoux. On top of that you had those insane turbo engines. What a season!
The heat issues would be caused from running to lean (less fuel to air ratio) once they added more fuel and make it more rich (more fuel to air ratio) it wouldn't melt pistons. We didn't have oxygen sensors for our exhaust yet so it was certainly a trial and error for them to get it right.
1400hp is insane, it's 1500 more than my Passat.
Try turning it on
Wait you have -100 hp
It’s 1242 more than my Corolla XRS
🤣🤣🤣
You have minus 100hp?
In Adrian Newey's book he comments that all this power meant that teams didn't worry too much about aero - they could stick a big wing on and power through. You can kinda tell from the looks of a lot of the cars. But when turbos went it set the stage for aero developments to take over.
Excellent book, highly recommended
Read it once, will read it again
Just imagine neweys aero on one of those beasts of an engine
As Enzo said... aerodynamics is for people who can't build engines
Imagine the Layton house he designed with an M12 in the back.
My friend was turbo technician / engineer for Lotus in that era. He said Senna insisted on getting a fresh turbo for his last ultimate qualifying lap in the session, so they developed a procedure to swap the turbo on a hot engine during the session in the pits. Amazing to think of them replacing 1000° turbos and sending him back out in just minutes. It’s all in the margins. Always has been in F1.
That is crazy as fk
Using up more turbos in a weekend than a complete season this year.
I reckon that was achieved by using v-band clamp system?
@@AmirPomenProbably bought extra manifolds and exhausts with them, undo the oil/coolant lines, send the manifold nuts off with an air tool.. Deal with actually removing the turbo from the exhaust once it’s cooled off.
I work in oil and fuel development.
Ive seen and touched ceramic engines and turbos that are so thermally efficent that you can still handle them when they are glowing orange without burning yourself..
They are still uncomfortably hot, but it doesnt burn you.
Yes its a head scrambler. Everything you know says dont touch it, but you can.
I always loved a quote from James Hunt regarding turbo F1 engines back in that era .
"When you first hit the accelerator nothing happens , then Everything happens !"
As someone who loves classic F1 I love these historic videos you guys make. Really does an amazing job of putting the viewer in that time period where we can't take things like electronics and other technologies for granted.
Hats off to the drivers of this pre-safety era. They were daredevils and willing to seriously risk their lives to go fast.
The drivers know full-well what they're getting into, the cars have to be so light to counter the sheer weight of the balls needed to drive that fast, I say LET THEM COOK!
They were very concerned about safety in the 80's, well after the incidents of 1982 they were....they weren't very good at it, they were just learning...I'm not sure if the safety record for F1 in the 80's was due to the safety precautions or just pure luck.
Always remember that in light of these modern F1 fans that immediately crown Lewis or now Max as the greatest driver ever. Likely either one back in the day would not have lived long enough to rack up that many starts or wins. Imagine Jimmy Clark or Ayrton Senna in a current winning car? This year in particular Max V. is unchallenged, that's not great racing. Thus it cannot be considered a great accomplishment.
Here's the thing, there's plenty of safety in this era compared to the cosworth V8 era.
@@crusherbmxI bet Spa-Francorchamps had something to do with their gradual obsession over safety.
Even in modern days, the track is still taxing the driver’s skills in a way others tracks struggle to do, and dont get me started on the old layout’s Masta Kink.
I'm so glad I was able to experience the amazing sounds of the Turbo engines of the 80s at the Detroit Grand Prix! The backfires, flames and the sound bouncing off the buildings of downtown Detroit!
Mine was 1985 Mitsubishi Australian GP. Fantastic 😎👍
I was in Detroit in 88. That was when F1 was spectacular. They might be turning faster lap times now but they don’t look on the edge of being out of control.
I got into f1 in 2014 but the 80s turbo is my favorite era. The sound is intoxicanting. The boost threshold of those days was imfamous. I heard once you get back on throttle way before you would in a normal response throttle.
Did anyone notice it finished with “and I’ll catch you”. Like is he after me? Should I be afraid?
LOL SAME.
This is the kind of video I absolutely LOVE from driver 61. Detailed history of racing tech development, with good storytelling and fascinating facts and context. Answering dozens of questions I didn’t know I even had! Thanks Scott and the whole Driver61 team. I’ve learned so much over the last couple years. You guys do an amazing job!
It would still be plenty fun to just drop the instantaneous fuel flow limit to see how much the current ICE elements could really make if fully uncorked in qualifying mode
Ferrari noises 2019 :D
remove RPM limit and fuel flow limit and I'm game...
would love to see the drivers have an overboost button...
just limit total fuel for race...
need more Kablooeys
@@RCRitterFPV the rpm limit is (afaik) 15.000. when you look at the telemetry during a race you gonna see the drivers shifting at around 12.000rpm, so the rpm limit is not really a concern rigth now since the engines loose performence when reffing that high sadly (might be fuel economy also, but i'm not sure about that)
@@olerothemberg3869I think that’s because of fuel flow rules. From 12k-15k rpm, there’s more friction but not enough fuel to burn all the air.
@@andrewahern3730 yeah that might be. i kinda remember having read something like that some time ago
8:23 over 2000 horsepower per ton... wow
Why say over 2000, when it's more like 2300 hp/ton. That's terrifying.
@@bobbybobman3073at that point its a coffin on wheels
Once you hear "it needs a cast iron block" you know you're dealing with a ton of power..
Steel would be stronger unlike the statement from the presenter. However cast iron has better damping abilities than cast steel.
@@tommymaddox6785 Steel is stronger (and also not less dense than cast iron, for any practical purposes) but cast iron is much more brittle than steel. you can cold bend mild steel, roll it, knock dents out,... cast iron cracks from the stress of welding without proper heat treatment alone. So the presenter is very wrong, but you aren't correct either. But you probably didn't waste hours for it.
What's more insane is I worked for a company that supplied some of these engines with turbos and looked at the drawings and a few samples that came in for rebuilds (historic racing series) and they were surprisingly different than what is currently used. I would love to have one on the shelf to poke around and talk about with others.
Worth noting the current gen turbos are insane on a whole nother level, I've seen those too and they basically aren't turbos, they're like an entirely new technology.
@@turbo_brian Honda's initial turbo design for their 2015 engine wasn't the normal "snail" turbo, it was elongated to reduce its diameter to help with the "Size zero" concept, so it was ICE engine designers trying to make a turbine without really knowing how to build one. After it blew up every other race they went and asked their jet engine department for help.
Now it's more of a "snail" turbo, but I would love to see the complexity of it...
I remember the days of turbo F-1 cars, in qualifying trim they came out of tight corners like a dragster! Up at the 1986 Montreal GP Mansell and Senna were battling for the pole and the speed and sound was incredible! Between shifts there would be an explosion like a stick of dynamite 🧨!!!
❤❤❤❤❤
One thing you need to also remember is, they were pushing 1k+ horsepower in a car that had very basic steering/gearing so it was a major handful to drive these things. They were brutes, like bucking bronco's. Absolutely LOVE the early to mid 80's cars.
My dad got to see the Renaults at Watkins Glen in 77 and 78, and he said that the drivers would carry as much speed as they could through the corners, then get on the throttle and hope that the car was still pointed in the right direction coming out of the turn. He also noted that they would leave tracks on the uphill when the turbos kicked in, that's how much of a difference they made.
That turbo dog @ 4:24 thou lol
Maybe I'm in the minority, but i think it would be much more exciting to have formula 1 with the current cost cap and basic major outlines for car size and weight, but allowed the teams to choose how to get the results it wants in anyway. Id love to see v10s and v12s against turbo v6s and such. Im dreaming of course but man is it a fun daydream!
Yip I'm of the same mind.
Here is the box your car has to fit through. You have this much fuel per race. You have this much to spend per season. Go.
@@Firecul bingo!
I forgot a minimum set of crash safety features but I'd hope that is a given.
Yes, now that there is a cost cap, they should look at keeping other restrictions to a minimum. The cost cap will naturally limit things like fuel consumption, crashes and unreliability.
That's what WEC did (maximum downforce allowance), and it gave us the beauty that is the Peugeot. And honestly each hypercar is so different from one another. Absolutly love to see it
Awesome video - I just went to Watkins Glen this past weekend for the Sahlen’s Six Hours race. I sadly was born too late to see any F1 cars there, but I have had the privilege of seeing IndyCar there back in 2017.
I owned a 1962 Oldsmobile Jetfire back in the late 1970's that I bought from the original owner. I remember having to check a fluid it used called "Jetfire Turbo-Rocket Fluid. Yes TURBO. It was the first American car with a TURBO. It ran good, but when gas was being rationed it was a pain. The car averaged 9 MPG so it was not to great when I had to ride 47 miles each way to and from work each day. I sold it to get a more economical car with better MPG.
@10:07 "and i'll catch you *video ends*" ominous
When a channel knows exactly what I'm interested in!!
I WISH I would have been a little older to be able to really appreciate this. I feel like I totally missed out of such a cool, analog time in racing history.
Not only did using excess fuel cool the turbo for more power, but it could also be used to help eliminate turbo lag. Ferrari were the first to really capitalise on this (as far as I'm aware) midway through 1981 by combusting fuel INSIDE their turbo compressor to keep it spinning even when off throttle and reduce lag.
Another big thing to note was that when McLaren were running their TAG-Porsche engine (late 1983-1987), they didn't run special qualifying engines like the other top teams. They'd turn up the qualifying boost pressure, but the likes of Renault (and their customer Lotus), BMW (with Brabham and later Benetton) and Honda with Williams would all run totally new engine blocks which were essentially disposable just for qualifying and could turn up the boost even higher as a result. It was therefore actually quite rare to see the McLaren-TAGs right up at the front in qualifying, even in 1984 where the car was truly dominant in races since in quali they were always at least 100 horsepower down on their main rivals. They made up for it however in race with their excellent engine management system provided by Bosch, solid reliability (though this began to waver especially in 1987 as it became clear that the engine was losing competitiveness, driving them to push it harder for more performance) and very solid power in race trim (since they ran less quali boost, this also meant they lost less power compared to their rivals going from quali to the race)
One last minor thing, but the pictures you showed of the F1 car you drove around 4:40 were of the non-turbo Lotus 91 from 1982.
10:06 @driver61 what do you mean your gonna catch me haha
Telling everyone at the end that you'll catch them is such an Alpha move.
I did a lot of practice in simulator until finally I managed to deal with that turbo lag. It was annoying first but now it is quite fun. In the end I do something similar to what Senna did, popping throttle to keep revs high without spinning before exiting slow corners. And that works great with weak karts too.
They were THE HEROS of my youth.
Saw the BMW engine some 30 years ago at the fair. This Turbo was really big!
I’d love to see you do a series on the technical aspects and innovations of super touring cars. Lots of manufacturer involvement with big money being thrown around towards the end. I have no doubts there’d be a lot of content there given all of the different brands and models in the categories life cycle and different approaches they all took to turn road cars into fully fledged race cars.
Excess fuel is also used in piston airplane engines, when you operate in high power mode, the fuel system adds ca 10% more fuel than it is necessary because most full power use happens during climb - when you are slower and less air passes through the air-cooled engine to cool it down :)
Some cars do it too. My fl5 civic type r will set the AFR to 11.5:1 for WOT under boost. That means in those conditions it injects 12% more fuel than there is oxygen to burn it with.
@@ASJC27 It's the common way to reduce the exhaust gas temperature (EGT) to stay under the limit for gasoline engines. For diesel engines, as you're in excess of air, you usually reduce/limit the fuel injected to limit the temperature.
@@ASJC27 All turbocharged petrol engines in production do this. Every one.
Yes, pretty standard in aircraft engines. I fly with a Lycoming YIO-540-exp. Takeoff is always done full rich regardless of field altitude to prevent the cylinders from overheating until we reach cruising speed and the airflow is enough to cool them. That isn’t my procedure- it is in the engine manual.
@@michaelschlachter1628 it seems your engine has an altitude compensating fuel system. Like a Cirrus SR20 with the Continental engine - anything but cruise is done full rich, even if you are 8000'. Do that in 99% of Lycos or Contis in ordinary planes and you will be glad to fly straight at that altitude :). I was mentioning the feature of many aircraft engines where the current mixture is enriched even more if you are at or very near the full throttle. I experienced throttle reducing by itself slightly on an aircraft without adjustable friction when I could not hold it by hand in the climb and the CHTs just went past 420F in a whim.
These cars where insane.
These drivers had to be insane to drive these monsters.
This kind of technological and technical competitiveness is what made me interested in F1. As a kid watching the F1 news analyzing each bit of design was always interesting. If F1 becomes spec series, I might stop watching it.
One of the main reasons you gotta love F1. When engineers go above and beyond around the rules. And often comes the best inventions ever that will lately improve road cars. Just art. And we do see that nowadays often too, but people quickly start hating instead of admiring it. F1 became too football alike with this new type of fans.
My favorite car in project cars 1 or 2 is Lotus 98T with turbo 100% ... indeed hard to control but when you feel the car you know you can do everything!
Thanks for that video Driver 61! Everytime good stories from that era. It's incredible how much infos and films I didn't see from that time. Good that you are here to show us.
This information is good to know since i am from the nineties F1 fan i didn't know about the eras before much. You did a great job with the video well done and keep ythe good work
Let's calm down a bit: It was not the power, but the size that was the key to the championship cars, as I will show below. Also, that was 1400 for qualifying w/ Paul Rosche's "Hitler chip" in the BT52 and crazy fuels and dry ice in the intercooler, and you could only do this if you could afford to shit out engines. There are guys drag racing old pickups w/ that kind of HP and nutty boost, it's not rocket science. Piquet had one blow the crankshaft out of the bottom of the monocoque and nail itself into the track, qualifying was really just "burst testing" engines for the players who could afford to. Nothing in F1 is as groundbreaking as it seems. In fact, Rosche had been developing that very same engine (the BMW M12) for TEN YEARS in other racing championships, they decided to run it in F1 after a go in Formula Two. These were modified M10 BMW engines from a family car going back 20 years w/ over 100k miles on them so the iron had been seasoned for high turbo boosting (the M12 model) and ppl took note when they saw them perform in IMSA well before F1. Turbos, fan cars, active aero, ground effects, CVTs and a pile of other tech originated in OTHER RACING CHAMPIONSHIPS like the technology free-for-all freak show known as CAN-AM.
HOWEVER, the real main advantage of the inline-4 turbo over its V6 Ferrari and Renault rivals is evident when you look at the one massive turbo on the engine. With one fewer turbo, two fewer cylinders, and eight fewer valves, the Bt52 had lower frictional losses and, therefore, produced less waste heat. Anyone ever own one of the old air-cooled Suzuki GSX-R 750 sport bikes? I have, a 1988. You remember what it's like after it gets hot, right? Like riding through molasses power-wise. Heat is the enemy. But the "Fun Sized" Bt52 had another ace in the hole: Aero.
Because it ran cooler, the BT52 could be designed w/ smaller radiators, which meant better aero efficiency and straight-line speed. When you look at the car next to its rivals, it's like an arrow and they are like flying saucers. Those very skinny, short sidepods made it king of the long straights. Qualifying is a power show, racing is where you're going to pick up those 10ths here and there lap after lap for 2 hours. Ergo, Renault may have pioneered turbos in F1 but they never won a world championship in the Turbo era because BALANCE is often they key to F1. That's generally the rule until something shows up like active suspension that alone can leave everyone in the dust.
Had a Buick grand national in 2001ish, a v8 always got a jump on me, but you wait for the boost wave and blow by. They were amazing machines. Have a hemi charger now and recently rented an Audi rs4 I believe. It had no lag at all but made me miss that wave of power you knew was coming.
“However the engineers got clever”
These guys are incredibly talented …
Always pushing the rule book !!
Great stuff .!
Like Porsche in the early 1970s, F1 in the 1980s thought every problem should be solved by adding more horsepower. Bonkers. Awesome video!
Cheers 🍺
10:00 "Thank you very much for watching and I'll catch you"
Thats sounds very ominous 😳
Gilles Villeneuve at 9:00!
Good old toluene. Another good one is xylene. You can buy that as paint thinners from the hardware. Much cheaper than octane booster and has incredible knock resistance
the video ending was a bit premature 😂 "I'll catch you"
I almost said out loud "But I haven't jumped-"
You can run but you can't hide.
That last "Ill catch you" felt personal
love the clips used in this, mostly those from another documentary surrounding duckworth/ford/beatrice
Oh my god, that Renault turbo was as big as a Leopard 2 tank turbo. And this monster of an engine pushes 60 tons over 1500 HP.
1300-1400lb stick shift go cart with 1400 hp these guys 👑
''Thanks very much for watching and I'll catch you'' 😳
Saving my day from boredom, thank God.
Having a diesel truck with a big turbo, the VGT design really is one of the best adaptations to happen to the turbocharger. My truck is 6.6L, I could only imagine spinning up the same size turbo with 1.5L🤯
Also I wonder if they ever thought of running methanol to cool those motors back then. Like diesel it has more BTU's and burns slower and cooler. I'm guessing though because it used twice as much👀
I'm guessing you've got a Duramax?
@@zakvilanilam3388 yes. Nothing special, but it'll scoot
Methanol burning slower means it's automatically out of the window
@@kristoffer3000 yeah I was thinking about that, but methanol injection at least. It's cooling benefits have to be applicable in some significant way.
wasn't there a time when they ran methanol? was it around this time? top fuel doesnt even have a water jacket because they dump fuel in to keep it cool. its effective.
Ford Benetton -88 with full power (qualifying power) did 0-402 m in 6.7 S and 270 km/h. It´s very impressive.
"(...) often resulting in smashed con-rods and metal smashing through the crankcase" -> "it's not good" haha killed me
"thanks very much for watching, and I'll catch you" - ominous words of parting.
I was a pit lane flaggie and 2nd Medic at the AGP. The toluene smell emitting from the exhausts was unmistakable. And yes, the lag was bad. Nothing, nothing, nothing, noth...ROCKET!!!!!!
I've always loved the smell of aromatics. Too bad they're so toxic...
In F1 can you just charge a battery from exhaust and use electricity to run the boost?
Happy memories. Thanks for that.
Scott: "Thanks very much and I'll catch you"
Me: "You won't catch me, I have a 1400hp!"
Fascinating as always , best channel in UA-cam !
He briefly alluded to them at the end without naming them, but the pop-off valves were hilarious, the sound they made
bro, 1400HP 600kg and manual gearbox... this soud more scary than dodge vipers
i liked
I remember the lotus turbo lag in games, think it was project cars 2, felt like you were accelerating in reverse lol floor it and let off as the turbo kicked in or the wheels would spin 😄
Use the clutch to rev it up. Lag, what lag?!
@@bertram-ravendo it a couple of times and you’ll be asking “clutch? What clutch?”
"Thank you very much, and I'll catch you---"
Feeling threatened now hahahhahahah
I wonder why the top speeds weren't closer to 300mph, especially on fast circuits. 1450hp and 550kg cars.
Toluene came from the fuel volume limit. It's energy density and knock resistance made up for its slow burnrate. They had to heat it before getting to the injectors...
I didn't think UA-cam allowed pornography! 😱😆
Damn! I miss the turbo era! Listening to Senna go round the outside of Prost blat-blat-blat-blat-Hoooooowl!
Nice end to the video 😂
turbo = i got a subaru 2.0 really great - nice video thank you !
Senna & the rest...it's like they all had a special feel for those machines...crazy talent...back then with no kind of safety...no abs & traction control...wild era.
This was the best era of F1 and Red 5 racing flat out every lap…
They should bring back active suspension. Modern ground effect with active suspension would be fantastic
Didn't see the whole vid so don't judge, but did he mention the BMW 1500hp engine?
1985 Ayrton Senna's Lotus 97T (with Renault-Gordini F1 V6 Turbo engine) was accredited in Monza's saturday qualifying session of about 1470 HP!!! Engine was made to last about 3 to 5 laps and then swapped!
Better spool the turbos or Scott will catch you.
This makes me think of Murray Walker and James Hunt on Rene Arnoux’s excuse about the N/A vs turbo cars at Monaco 89
And all I can say to that is Bulls*it.
I am glad to know you will catch me!
Adelaide 1986 qualifying is absolutely crazy
Best F-1 times ever for the ones who love seeing engines at their very best...!!
As a racing driver, Scott wrung out milliseconds off of the laptime.
As a UA-camr, Scott struggles to push the video duration past the ten minute barrier.
6:11 thats cleetus mcfarlands oil pan😂 EDIT: it blew up when steve morris had it
So it’s not Cleetus’s pan then.
@@jonasthemovie it is now if they sold it to cleet
@@shadowcrj6402 Why would he use a ruined pan beyond saving?
Nvm I thought it survived but it clearly didnt🤣
It should be remembered, that 1400 hp from the BMW was strictly for qualification only, and then for a single lap. The race engines were considerably reduced in power to last the race distance. Then there was all the special fuels which bore little resemblance to what you'd find in your neighbourhood petrol station.
However, I do recall seeing this crazy mad cars at Brands Hatch. I also recall the huge difference in performance between the top teams and the ones at the end of the grid in those days. It was clear which teams had the money to spend on such exotic technology, and the bottom teams would trail in several laps back.
Driving these things seems similar to race drivers talking about rs 500 sierras saying the turbo came on like a light switch and a lot of good drivers ended up facing the wrong way as the turbo came on
"I'll catch you!"
Is that a threat? I don't know whether to be excited or not.
I only drove an old Porsche 911 Turbo. Boy, widow maker is quite the feeling you get, when you get hit by the power in a curve when it’s raining. 😅
Jeremy Clarkson on how turbos work: “A turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.”
love the classic ADELAIDE footage along with the recent motorsport festival footage too ling live " The Grand Finale " of 1995 attendance of 520,000 !
I can recall Senna screaming around Adelaide with Mansell. Deafening turbo was the era. Almost everyone had earplugs.
oh hey Its scott. This channel is worthy of watching.
Fun fact that the bmw 4cil used old blocks(from dtm maybe?). If a block had any “bubble” on the casted metal it would have already cracked in the past, so an old block meant it was good/strong to handle the boost
No, the block came from the 2002 road car, it was first used as the base for BMW's F2 engine in the early 1970's. They found that the blocks had to have at least 60K km of use to be seasoned enough to stand up to racing stress. Later the race shops started artificially seasoning blocks for racing use.
@john jones I did read that they were seasoned outside and to speed up this process the blocks were urinated on by employees. A sterling effort by Team BMW.
@@astonzappa That's kind of an urban motersports myth, they were outside because the race dept initially was buying the cores from wrecking yards, the second part sound completely made up.
The seasoning process has to do with how many heat cycles the block had gone through which tempers and stabilizes the metal, a fresh unit didn't have the integrity for a strong foundation.
@@johnjones928No, that’s a myth like all other nonsense related to that engine. Source: a bmw F1 guy (can’t remember his name) from that era on Die alte Schule podcast.
@@johnjones928 By urinating on the blocks as they sat outside
senna really used turbos to the limit his style of throttle while going through the corner made him so great
"It's likely your road car has a turbo"
Wishful thinking on my behalf, I appreciate it.
Great Job keep on doing such Great content
Finally out of topics! Back to 1980s F1 turbos.
That was super quick turbo charged narration
The acceleration and speed were out of this world. 🔥🏎
Is that the back straight at Baskerville raceway in Tasmania at 7:57 of that video? Looks identical
1986 lineup might be the best ever. World Champions: K.Rosberg, Senna, Prost, Mansell, Piquet. Amazing drivers: Berger, Alboreto, A.Jones, Laffitte, Arnoux. On top of that you had those insane turbo engines. What a season!
Bring this era back 😮
The heat issues would be caused from running to lean (less fuel to air ratio) once they added more fuel and make it more rich (more fuel to air ratio) it wouldn't melt pistons.
We didn't have oxygen sensors for our exhaust yet so it was certainly a trial and error for them to get it right.