Aeronca C3 - The Impossible Turn?
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- Опубліковано 24 чер 2024
- Many years ago I explored the options for flying the 'Impossible Turn' in the Aeronca C3; I practice 180 degree turnbacks regularly, along with glide approaches and side-slipping. The turn procedure itself is very straightforward but the subject is often debated. I do what is best for me; this film is only offered as food for thought.
Jack Jefford photos used with thanks to the Jefford family.
Music: 'Honeysuckle' by Honeyroot.
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I have had two engine failures on departure, returned, and lived. You are correct! Lower the nose steeply, roll in a steep bank, do not pull back and load the wing. A steep turn with very little "G" load will bring you around with less altitude loss. The first power loss was a Smith Mini-Plane and the second was a Stinson 108 at night. Practice! Know the limits of what you fly, or di,,,,
You have the perfect airplane for the impossible turn. I soloed all my zero timers at Ag Flight in less than ten hours in the Aeronca 7AC, which had the powerful 65 hp Continental. Low power and dirty, pulls a lot of wind, high lift, and slow is the better way to train pilots using Wolfgang's principles like the law of the roller coaster and what the airplane wants to do in Stick and Rudder. You mentioned Wolfgang's very important principles in your description of how you accomplished the impossible turn. You mentioned that the slower we go and the more we bank, the less radius of turn. So we get around quicker but we do not pull on the stick, thus a 1 g turn at any bank angle. We don't safely increase rate of turn by pulling and increasing g loading, we safely increase rate of turn by increasing bank angle without pulling or doing what the airplane (neutral dynamic stability) wants to do in a turn...put its nose down and not stall. Your use of energy management, the law of the roller coaster, also was all "Stick and Rudder" both in takeoff in ground effect to near cruise (still slow) and in deceleration and ridding yourself of potential energy of altitude so that, "you blend the approach glide, the flare-out, and the slowing up of the airplane all into one maneuver so that, when you arrive at ground level, you arrive in three-point attitude, all slowed up and ready to squat." p 302 of S&R. Great flying and thanks for the video.
Thank you for the long comment. I’ve read ‘Stick and Rudder’ many times. It’s a book that takes a little getting into for students, mainly because it’s not always understood or encouraged by instructors. My first aircraft was a 7AC Champ, a super aeroplane.
Well done for keeping this old girl alive! So good to see her. My memories of her from 1955/57 at Southend.
Splendid, still going strong. I hope you are too!
@@FlyingForFunTrecanair Yes, still going strong, almost 80 years old. G-AEFT used to be parked up at Southend with Ercoupe G_AKFC, Auster Autocrats G-AJEO and G-AJUE and Auster Autocar G-AMFP. There was also an Auster Aiglet parked near of the Girls Flying Corp, but I can't remember the registration. All useless info, but just a bit of the C3's history.
@@raymondhoward1581 : History and reminiscences are never useless!
In this wonderful world of digital everything, the bones of todays history will disappear with the next hard-drive meltdown... those photos and newspapers found during renovations in days gone by will simply not exist in the future!
The rego's above may be just the clues somebody is looking for... if they are not, they still made me smile.
Go well, Old Timer... (I'm only 78!) 😜
Well tuned & maintained engine.
It gets lots of attention but is simple to maintain.
The fabric looks old, like it may not pass the punch test much longer. 🧐
@@jamesburns2232 Then it will get a recover.
Never seen a JAP flat twin.
Awesome. Thanks
Generala-Aviation's Extremely Fat Taildragger!
Looks like a fun little airplane! I can imagine it was the model for the little airplane in the Barney Bear cartoon.
The dehangering shots were a neat touch.
Thanks; all by chance as I’d forgotten my tripod. The iPad was propped up on a chair, wedged between two wheel rims and an old Austin Seven crankshaft!
Thank you so much I love seeing ol’ FT still flying. Most people don’t know how important of a plane they are watching
It’s certainly a most historic machine 🙂
Very nice video. Kind of nostalgic; I know Mr. Jefford's daughter Carmen who is a geologist in Alaska. I also had an Aeronca 7 AC with an 85hp. Very fun and forgiving airplane. Thx!
Tremendous, thanks for posting!
I love the hinging/fold flat door design, wheel clearance where you need and simplicity where you don’t, and as for the tailskid guide...genius!
Did you see how the tail skid slides off the trolley? The wheels fall off, it’s all quite deliberate!
I donnnoo lol it's a cute lil thing but....
a plane you have to literally FOLD THYSELF IN HALF then slip CATTYCORNERERDSIDEWAYS KINDA slippin in like puttin your hand in a GLOVE :) or ''some thing like that'' lol hahahahahahahahaha ummmm yea... gnats butt over a rainbarrel, kinda tight, my navy supervisor woulda sayd.... lol
lol simple yuup I kinda like it lol it is cute an quirky ;)
@@alexmikhael5061 Like a bear climbing into a rubbish bin!
@@FlyingForFunTrecanair lol I totally read that:
like a bear crawling into a RABBIT DEN !! LOL HAHAHAAHA yupyuypyup :) awesome!
Wow!
I'm no pilot but your video made me think back to my childhood where I'd take my uncle's Flying Dutchman sailboat out on the ocean with a couple of friends (or my girlfriend ;-) to just have some fun or a peaceful sail!
Getting her into the water was just as casual as you were, taking it out of its hangar, getting her prepped and ready to go, and then cleaning her up at the end was very reminiscent of my times with that beautiful sailboat!
Thanks!
Splendid, thanks for posting 👍
Always wondered how a pilot could squeeze into a C3 cockpit, now I know! Great video thanks.
Like a bear climbing into a rubbish bin!
That sure looks like fun!
“…temptation to pull back on the stick to reduce rate of decent.” The fear of hitting the ground cause us to inevitably hit the ground. Or maybe it’s the hope that does it?
Sublime opening sequence, with the hangar and start. Well done!
I’ll make a film about the perils of trying to stretch the glide another day. We know that raising the nose to stretch the glide is wrong but I understand the temptation. The opening sequence was a bit of an experiment; I forgot my tripod and home made iPad holder so those bits were all filmed on an iPad propped up on an old chair!
Dangit, that was so beautiful and relaxing….
I went watching this 3 times over in a row.
Thank you, it was a nice film to make.
Great content! Something to think about and try (at altitude). I cut my teeth in an Aeronca 7AC which I loved dearly. The impossible turn discussion is common here here in Arkansas and the rule of thumb is to use the best L/D speed which in my Liberty xl-2 ( certified version of the Europa) is 79 knots while stall is 44. I don't know what the best L.D on a C3 is, but seemed you were using a slower speed combined with a steeper angle. I have been told a hammer head turn also works, but never tried it in my Liberty. Obviously all experimentation needs competence and altitude. thanks for the thought provoking video.
Whoever told you to try a hammerhead with an engine failed is a criminal, or plain stupidd or a big liar. Tell him to prove it with an engine failed at the TPA straight in departure. Lets see. No power hammerhead. Cant believe some pilots are such liars.
Beautiful flight. This is what flying is all about.. Thanks for a great video.
Thank you!
Interesting stuff. I wouldn't have expected those results so this is very thought provoking. Beautifully flown, filmed and edited too, by the way - true to the spirit of this very special aeroplane.
I’ll make a sequel to this film when the wind is from the south-east. Options are strictly limited when taking off in that direction at Roche, it’s a great excuse for another film.
@@FlyingForFunTrecanair I shall look forward to that.
Nice video thanks for sharing
Most enjoyable! I was smiling the whole time.
Excellent 👍
Ditto! 😄
My darling wife bought “Winging It” for me many years ago. An excellent book and an enjoyable read.
It's a great book. I picked up my copy in Anchorage in 1998, whilst on a Douglas DC6 tech course at Northern Air Cargo. Seems a lifetime ago now.
beautiful machine
Wow!! So many comments -- heartening proof Nick that you have a a happy and appreciative following. This is indeed a lovely video that encapsulates the joy of flying 'low 'n slow' in a classic aeroplane whose dumpy looks are superficially redolent of a kids toy. But that wing is a most efficient structure and for all its puffs and putters, the wee engine works splendidly. I'm in a similar league flying my little D9 Jodel that wins patronising raised eyebrows in some quarters - until they hear my operating costs! It's the KISS principle in action!
Thank you, there’s beauty in simplicity.
So So good Nick
Thank you, it's a subject we'll visit again.
I find this unique aircraft fascinating. If I were a licensed pilot I think I'd be looking for one to buy. Great video. Thank you!
Good choice!
Lovely video, thanks. I particularly like the tail wheel track to get the aircraft in and out of the hangar, simple but effective 👍
Did you see the trolley wheels fall off at 0:55? 😂
@@FlyingForFunTrecanair I thought that was all part of it 🤭
Regarding the 'impossible turn'. One important missing bit of info with this is that a 180 degree turn puts you off to the side of your takeoff track so to line up with your departure runway actually involves something like 270 degrees or more unless the airfield is very wide, otherwise the last turn to align with the runway may cause a wing to hit the ground, or an attempt to hasten the turn using rudder is tried - always a bad thing which leads to heartbtreak.
Always love your videos.
It wasn’t missing, I was keeping it for the practical demonstration for another film. However, you are quite correct, the manoeuvring after the initial turn adds more ‘degrees’ to the turn.
Flying at its purest
Nice to see the C-3 flying and flying well. Sweet hanger set up too.
I always look forward to the next video - and have not been disappointed yet! Ace.
Thank you. I think we’ll visit the subject again soon, the feedback has been good.
I adore the 2 cylinder Aeroncas. Arthur Ord-Hume was a keen follower and with his friend rebuilt a rare UK built example. I managed to get hold of a copy of "Flying for Fun" it is such a wonderful read (as was the little film). Fantastic videos many thanks!
Arthur, along with Paul Simpson, rebuilt an Aeronca 100, G-AEVT. Unfortunately Paul Simpson crashed it shortly thereafter. They then rebuild G-AEFT, using a certain amount of parts from ‘VT. That is why ‘FT is a bit of a hybrid.
My dad grew up in aviation when it was common to have reduced power from the engines or quit, his teaching when I was a Teen student aviator was know the area surrounding the airport and always keep in mind PICK A POINT...which means ALWAYS look for a possible landing place. It was good advice over my 35 years in aviation.
Very good advice. I do similar, in fact ‘Devon1944’, who has commented on this film, once described me as a ‘field fancier’ as I have a list of suitable fields to be used if needed!
I find it interesting to watch the many aviation videos on the "University of UA-cam". Watch the eyes of the pilots... it is not too hard to work out who might survive a nasty surprise! 🥴
I did this in a Super Cub. My engine quit at 400 feet with a glider on tow. I waggled my wings as I did not want the two rope to drop into the field of an irate farmer who had threatened holy hell if we dropped another tow rope into his field located at the end of our runway. I had been told this was common practice with some of the other pilots. At the very least I figured we would lose the rope.
When the glider pilot did not respond to the signal, I kicked him off and turned 180 degrees back to the field. Needless to say I did not have sufficient altitude to pull the nose up and stop the windmilling propeller. The spinning prop served as a massive air brake slowing the aircraft down, necessitating a very steep angle of descent.
As I rolled around out of the turn at zero altitude, I had my eyes glued to the wing tip to watch it just brush the grass as I leveled out to align with the grass strip. The remaining momentum carried me up the hill to a stop directly in front of of the fuel pumps.
When I looked up at the float gauge, I realized the cork ball had stuck in the tube at the halfway mark. My mind had painted the red fuel I thought I saw underneath. No one on the field ever realized what had happened. Later, while talking to another tow pilot, I mentioned the stuck cork float. He asked why I would use the fuel gauge as all he ever did was count the number of tows. "Why not count the number of tows?" he asked? And that is exactly what I did after that incident. Oddly I had always used time to gauge my fuel in other types of flying as I had been ingrained with the idea of never trusting a fuel gauge, but I never thought I could misread a sight gauge.
What saved my life was hundreds of hours of Ag flying, where I was conditioned to always put the nose down and always go under, never over wires, (and on occasion, bridges). Thus my first instinct is to always put the nose down. If the nose is kept level in a turn the aircraft quickly loses airspeed. The steeper the turn the quicker the airspeed loss. If the nose is pulled up even slightly in a turn without power, the aircraft will stall immediately and the turning moment will result in a spin. This is the dreaded stall/spin scenario that kills pilots turning back to a field after a power loss.
When I went to retrieve the tow rope I expected to be blasted by the farmer meeting me at the door with tow rope in hand. Sure enough he answered the door with the tow rope in hand, but as I was about to apologize he handed me the rope and said; "no need to apologize, I saw the whole thing". Turned out he had been a pilot in WWII.
As I managed the glider operation, I banned the glider pilot (A West Point "ring knocker") that had ignored the signal, from flying when I was managing the field. Worse he had been carrying a student glider pilot with him when it happened.
The lesson learned was never, ever trust ANY fuel gauge - period; always fly by the clock. And always keep the nose down in a turn, especially at low altitudes. Better to hit the ground flying in control then to stall and spin in.
What a great post, thanks for sharing.
Question. Im a student pilot. What is the Vglide speed of that airplane. And what is the propeller stop airspeed. Thanks. So i know how to slow down from Vglide to the prop stopped speed so it glides better than the factory says...
@@CFITOMAHAWK There are no published speeds for the aircraft, it is so old there is no Aircraft Flight Manual. Have you found a ‘propeller stop’ airspeed published for any aircraft?
@@CFITOMAHAWK Are you really a student pilot? You make claims about teaching on single and multi engine aircraft on your channel page. If you are an instructor then you'll know there is no such thing as a published prop stopped speed.
The impossible turn is only impossible in impossible aircraft. As you pointed out, it can be fine in a slow aircraft like this. A suitable egghead could no doubt fashion a clever equation relating climb rate to airspeed and windspeed and direction to decide when it is possible. All I know is it wouldn't work in a Bonanza, but probably would most of the time in a 150HP Super Cub.
Absolutely 👍
My first airplane was a `47 Aeronca Chief. In 2 years I flew it 430 hours and moved up to a Cessna 140. I hated the 140 and got an RV-4.
Nice classic airplane and old fashioned stick and rudder advice. Good content sir.
My pleasure 🙂
My uncle, Christy Golson, flew with the Jeffords at Broken Bow, Nebraska in the 1930s. Thank you for the reminder.
Fantastic!
Simply beautiful!
Nice to see you flying again. You really have a blast in the C3 😊. Love the hangar, very simple. Thanks
Nice little film and an interesting one, thank you. Also poignant- back in 2020 I was having some lessons in an ultralight with a family friend. He went to great lengths to teach me engine failure procedures very early on, only to be killed as a result of an engine failure on take off, quite shocking at the time. It remains an ambition to gain my license one day, the sense of freedom cannot be beaten.
Good luck, a gift of wings is worth the effort.
Proper flying by the seat of your pants ! really great to see, many thanks for sharing.
such a wonderful aircraft, happy landings!
Thank you 🙂
Beautifully filmed and edited. I loved the inside the hangar sequence. I suppose the impossibility of a turn depends on the proficiency of the pilot but especially on the aircraft type. A rope break at 200 feet in a glider is something a student pilot can manage. A loss of thrust on takeoff in a 172 or a Cherokee at 200 feet is a strictly straight-ahead proposition for anyone. This should be obvious to everyone but here in the USA it must be said. Best wishes.
The turnback is most definitely aircraft and pilot specific.
Your comment about people who do not want to practice emergencies is spot on. I was a terrible pilot until I moved from the big airport to a small airstrip and found a new instructor who emphasized that I should fly every approach as though I had an engine failure, and preferably with a crosswind or even a tailwind if possible. Several years later, while conducting low level aerial photography, I had an engine failure. To land into the wind what meant landing in a field of cut timber and stumps. To land crosswind meant landing in a plowed field. I did not even knock the nose gear off the Cessna. No pilot should miss any opportunity to fly a simulated engine out landing.
A good instructor should constantly encourage learning, including for himself. Have you read 'A Gift Of Wings' by Richard Bach? Drake the Outlaw is a fine man!
@@FlyingForFunTrecanair Drake the Outlaw; you need a cape sir!
@@FlyingForFunTrecanair Once upon a time I was a freightdog flying with some pilots who are often quoted in flying magazines, including Smithsonian Air & Space, when the subject is the DC-3. We had some Drake the Outlaws; some would share their experience and knowledge, a couple Drakes thought that if a new copilot did not know as much as they did, they were incompetent, and would not share their experience; "J" actually threw a tantrum when I employed a technique "K" taught me. "J" was by all opinions a hot stick but he was a horrible left-seater to fly with if one wanted to learn, and detrimental to learning.
@@FlyingForFunTrecanair 'A Gift Of Wings' - a wonderful book. "Return of a Lost Pilot" and "Cat" - two of my favorite stories.
@@fredkitmakerb9479 I was a freight dog too, thirty years ago. Thankfully the captains were generally good and willing to share; now I'm a grey haired old soak and I try to pass on what I've learned - sometimes learned the hard way.
Gostei da doçura do vôo do Aeronca. Muito legal.
Parabéns SBSL
Many years back I had an Aeronca AC15
Best plane I've ever flown,
And used to practice short circuits and really steep turns descending at the beginning of the run way,
Always using a side slip,
And never seen anyone else practicing landings like that, and often thought to myself, Why don't other pilot practice same turns, as one day they may need to do it,
And i can see them sweating it, from not practicing it
Mine were always done power off, and could put it down within a few feet of roll
Then I used to watch other pilots always taking huge circuits, and often wondered why they do that, since many of them, would never make it back to the run way if they had a power failure,
That plane you got is a real antique and I wonder what it was stressed for, probably not aerobatic,
But looks like a real challenge with such little power and a slow climb rate.
All good stuff. The C3 is typical Aeronca; well built, tough and mildly aerobatic - with the camera turned off!
Imperial gallons - those were the good old days - benzine of the pink countries.
My petrol has a small amount of red two-stroke oil added. A good upper cylinder lubricant and makes the petrol pink, just like an atlas should be!
Beautiful,thank you man.
cute little bugger........unique plane...engine sounds healthy
The fuselage taper has the bottom match the grade on which the little plane sits: very artfully designed.
The whole thing is artful; from the way the engine blends into the cowling to the dinky-do landing gear for minimum drag. All very pleasing.
@@FlyingForFunTrecanair Yes; you are right about that. A plane like that makes for the best kind of flying, doesn’t it?
Yep, definitely pays to practice those procedures......gives you confidence too. When I was gliding, (approx. 30 years), it was compulsory to do annual stall /spin checks with an instructor. Another good one is to practice "Ground Rush" - spinning low down, but at the top of a tall hill so that you have plenty of spare height to recover should you need it.
I think spin training should be mandatory; many national authorities have removed it from the PPL syllabus, which is a foolish act of dumbing down.
That choke position is hilarious !
Yup!
Brilliant as always!
I've been tempted to experiment with similar manoeuvres, at height and with a forced landing field in easy reach, but have always shied away from seriously going through with it in someone else's aeroplane.
Very enjoyable to follow your adventures in "FT" and I look forward to more episodes.
Devon 44.
We know what to do on your next biannual!
@@FlyingForFunTrecanair That would be very interesting! 🥴
Аэронка прекрасна!
Yes it is!
Looks like a cub who let itself go..
Que vídeo maravilhoso!
Thank you!
I've flown a 7AC, but your Aeroknocker makes the Champ look space-age!
You can still sort of see the Airknocker DNA in the Citabria fuselage.
@@Hooligan-F8F yes, still triangular aft of the rear spar, just like the Roche-Dohse Flivverplane!
I wouldn’t mind a video on your hangar construction
Good idea. Someone else asked about the doors a while ago so I’ll make a film soon.
That sure is beautiful country you get to go flyin over.
Cornwall, just across the river from England.
Oh yes, the River Tamar; I see it on Google Maps.
Loved the roulette comparison, nothing more true!
I'm very critical of those who cheerfully fly around and never consider or practice emergencies.
@@FlyingForFunTrecanair When i was in the USAF, emergency practice was part of every flight. Not always the same, but always a few.
Thank you.
Last on your check list before take off should be , E , for eventualities. What you are going to do if you have a engine failure on take off at 50 100 and 400 feet .
G'day,
Great stuff !
I agree,
Trying to slowly gently glide around a 180° Turn, with Wings Flat - will indeed yield a lower Sink Rate....
But the slow Airspeed and
Low Rate of Turn around the Compass Card ;
Means that at 300 ft then trying to Maintain "Best Glide" might only yield 3° per second going around the Compass, and that will involve
Bashing into the Ground after between 120° and 175° of the
Needful 180° has been achieved.
Which means
Crashing rather than
Landing.
Whereas
In Theory,
45° of Bank at 45° Nose-down,
Gravity (Thrust) equals Drag,
While half the
Lift goes into
Sweeping around the
Azimuth,
Rather than mere
Delicate Toe-prods of
Rudder to pedal around in
Yaw...
If you can achieve 15° of Turn per Second, then instead of crashing well short of the Fence, your method involves
Completing the Turn
With sufficient Height
Under the Bum as to be able to
Alight with rather more
Elegance...!
Well played !
Keep on keeping on...
Stay safe.
:-p
Ciao !
Thank you 😂
Yes, that’s the idea. 45 bank or greater; pitch to Vbg or a little below; fully co-ordinated.
A 45 bank doesn’t lose half the lift - closer to 1/4 ( actually 3/10 )- a common misconception of many pilots.😢
You speak like a Brit and dress like a Yank. I had a hard time reconciling the two until I learned we share the same sense of humour and passion for flying. Well done, old man!
I am very keen on the USA and American things in general. Jeans and shirts are practical, mine are bought from American Eagle when I'm in the USA.
Beautifully made video, beautiful and cute classic airplane, all great.The issue of the "impossible turn", "semi-impossible turn", "russian roulette turn", or however you call it, the records show "the turn" winning the odds battle, even sometimes against pilots especialized on safety, as it happened this year.
Nose down to Designed Minimum Maneuvering Speed (DMMS), mostly straight ahead with few mild turns, consistently better the odds, which we pay with the non-renewable life-credit-card. Fly as if some emergency is always going to happen. Flying is too good to be spinning a one bullet chamber about it. Happy skies to all!
It's no battle against any odds, a turn is made when it is appropriate to do so. I had an engine failure in a microlight a couple of years ago and ended up back on the airfield, without injury or damage, after turning back. To land straight ahead was not a healthy option. I'll cover this incident in a later film. Flying might be a game but its one we play for keeps.
@FlyingForFunTrecanair Not "a battle against any odds"? Really? The majority dead beg to disagree. I am really happy that you are so consistently successful with the "impossible turn". Maybe you found the exact successful technique and I certainly hope that's the case and everyone adopts it.
Meanwhile, my technique is learning from the dead, making their passing away worthwhile, and honoring them with my constant learning attitude toward the smart living and the mistaken dead. Flying is just too good.
@@philalcoceli6328 No dead people have contacted me so their opinion or disagreement has not been registered; maybe in a future film we'll have a dabble with a planchette and find out. It worked for Dr Honey.
@@FlyingForFunTrecanair Dead people speak more than loud enough when most present aviation practices are "written in their blood"
@@FlyingForFunTrecanairPresent aviation practices are loudly "written in the blood" of the dead.
Not all turnbacks are impossible turns as you said too. That comes from ignorants of turnbacks. I learned the 2 kinds in 1997. You practice them level flight at Vglide speed over a one mile highway section at 1,k feet over it. Sim a runway between less than a mile between on ground. With a left crosswind first. Thats is the runway. Fly along at Vglide speed with some flaps to see better. sim a take off, LET THE CROSSWIND PUSH PLANE TO SIDE OF RUNWAY for one minute. (sim a minute of climb but dont). So Stay level first few times. Sim a partial power engine fail after a minute. Do a Teardrop Turnback first, not the harder Hook turnback. Troubleshoot on first leg of Teardrop Turnback. Turn Vglide 45 on second leg of Teardrop Turnback.
Turnbacks are the most compelling reason to maintain runway heading, not centreline, after departure. As long as the 180 degree turn is made into the wind then hooks / teardrops are minimised. Thanks for your thoughtful post.
What a little beauty! Is the forward vis in flight as poor as the video suggests, or are you able to look over the nose and down a bit?
Forward vis is limited and obscured by various bits of ironmongery.!
One of the problems with "practicing" emergencies, is that the situation of a complete engine failure, with a wind-milling or stationary prop' is that the drag is increased relative to an idling engine with slow-spinning prop'. In the case of a wind-milling one, ie where the forward speed of the aircraft is causing the prop' to turn, the increase in drag is quite considerable. Ideally practicing the engine failure should be done well into a large field, using a genuine glide-approach with a stopped prop. We used to use large dinner-plate sized mushrooms in the middle of our glider-field, whereupon my instructor would cut it and pop it in a paper bag carried for the purpose, to fry up for his tea! If one rolled over it, a bollocking followed! If you practice such genuine stopped-prop approaches it MUST have a safe and landable undershoot. Using an actual aiming mark well into a large field, means that it you mis-judge it, you'll be able to safely land. Practicing such approaches at idle merely ensures that you're likely to have an unrealistic conception of how the aircraft will perform when actually dead-stick....
The drag from a windmilling propeller at idle is far more than with a stopped propeller. It is possible to pull the nose up and stop the propeller although one has to get close to stall speed to do this; again, I know this from experience. This film is just food for thought, not a ‘how to’ instructional film. I agree that there’s no substitute for ‘proper practice’ in to a suitable large area.
@@FlyingForFunTrecanair I think it's truer to state that the drag from an idling propeller MAY be greater than a stationary one. Or it may be less. As you know, there's a number of factors that can vary that: the number of blades, the pitch angle, how much power is being delivered and the airspeed of the aircraft, not to mention the rotational force required to start that propeller (and engine) moving. I would suggest that a prop' at idle is not in fact wind-milling, as it's rotation is chiefly coming from the engine. And this is the reason practicing with an idle engine during a practice forced landing may give a false perspective on how the aircraft will behave in glide-performance. I had an oil-loss in variable-pitch/3 bladed prop' Zlin many years ago. We kept the engine at idle to improve the glide performance, as completely dead-stick it came down like the proverbial brick, even feathered.
I would worry about getting out in a hurry. Love the sound of the two-banger. Does the C3 have serious adverse yaw to deal with?
Nothing is done in a hurry, including getting out. Adverse yaw? Yes, I'll demonstrate it in another film.
thank you i am smiling , what a neat little plane. i want to fly her, ha ha, but i dont fly..............
The C-3 is such an interesting plane, almost a powered glider, utmost in simplicity. That choke is a scary deal though. The results of your tests are interesting but I don't think applicable to many GA planes. AOPA did this with different aircraft and the results were sobering. The Bonanza being the worst. There is a video around somewhere of a Mooney successfully doing the impossible turn but it to like your C-3 is closer to a glider then an average GA airplane.
The choke is splendid, it concentrates the mind! Turning back is certainly dependant on aircraft type and pilot skill, this film is not a 'how to' although another film will look at practical examples. I intend to look at the C152 and C172 in the future but these films are information, not instruction.
@@FlyingForFunTrecanair understand this is not an instructional video, after all how many of us can even see a C-3 let alone fly one! Love the content, have always liked the C2/C3. There is a C2 in the Smithsonian I would love to fly!
@@johnmajane3731 the C2 in the Smithsonian is a beauty! Thanks for commenting, no harm in disagreement or thought provoking stuff either.
@@FlyingForFunTrecanair not at all. I have a 1955 Bonanza that I fly, love it and have had it since 1993 but most of my time is still in tailwheel planes towing gliders and instructing for years. Been a couple of decades now since I have flown a tailwheel plane but every time I see a 7AC my heart melts, special place for them since that was my first tailwheel plane.
@@johnmajane3731 The Bonanza is a fine ship. My first machine was a 7AC, I foolishly sold it in 1997 and have regretted it ever since.
keep your nose down. Does the Aeronca use right thrust to counteract torque or down thrust to avoid stalling?
No offset thrust at all, not enough oomph for such things.
Fun video. However, the impossible turn actually requires closer to 270 degrees of turn, not 180 degrees.
It can require more than 180 degrees in some circumstances but I was avoiding being prescriptive in this instance. Another film will look at some practical examples at the two airfields I fly from regularly, as both have poor options straight ahead on certain runways. It's all food for thought, not instruction.
That was excellent, I was worried at first as there seem to be quite a lot of YT videos that are inclined to discount the impossible turn. I think it is important that the impossible turn mantra is not diluted, for low hours or less frequent flyers I feel they must keep the no turn back clear in their mind. However, you explained the situation and alternative very well. As you say.. practice practice.
As always, thank you for such a good video. I have learned from that.. BW
Decision making can be broken down into three skill sets; rule based, knowledge based and skill based. Less experienced pilots will primarily use rule based decisions; as experience is gained, then skill and knowledge can also play a part in the process. As the turn back is very dependant on pilot skill and knowledge of one’s machine, then it is most suitably taught once proficiency is gained. The problem today is that so few people fly for the pleasure of flight itself. They never explore the edges of their aircraft envelope and don’t really seek or get proper experience. A majority of the $100 hamburger brigade are just following a magenta line and getting fatter, not more enlightened (edited for typo).
@@FlyingForFunTrecanair thank you for the reply and sharing your experience....something you do very well.
So true.
Try to impart to students and the ones flying because they want to learn and love flight grasp things much better than the ones trying to be Captain in a day.
The tables with increased stall speed are for keeping level in a bank. If you are sacrificing altitude for airspeed….. well you just did the video and did it well.
Know your aircraft and your limits.
As a pilot it’s called the impossible turn because the 99.9% of pilots are not prepared for the turn and are dead 😮thus the term of course it’s not always impossible 😮but for me it’s straight ahead landing in a field open the door and go to dinner that’s what insurance is for AQP will help pilots prepare for emergencies ❤
What if there's no suitable site straight ahead? Insurance doesn't save your neck, it just pays to clear up the wreckage. AQP is good and will help, but like all training, the easy win is with those who want to learn. Dragging a stubborn mule is always thus.
ABOUT AS QUAINT AS ONE CAN GET ID SAY.
Point the nose down, lay off the Gs, she’ll come right around. That’s something I’m going to practice. If you can make the turn, then it must have been possible.
...and a decent bank angle, at least 45 degrees.
@@FlyingForFunTrecanair Oh yes, I remember the two intersecting inclined lines you drew on the wind screen with a grease pencil. I was thinking about those while omitting any mention of them (the plane won’t turn if ya don’t bank it, will it?).
@@clutchcrgo Not very well, no!
How does that tail skid work on hard surface runway?
like a bar of soap on a wet tiled floor!
Where are the instruments????
Hiding 🤣
Is that a Briggs & Stratton engine?
Yes, I stole it off my grandpa's lawnmower!
That plane doesn’t look right without you sittin in it.
I've little choice - there's no room to stand!
@@FlyingForFunTrecanair It must be 1:00 AM where you’re at; what’re you still doin up?
@@clutchcrgo The dubious joy of being a long haul skipper. Where am I? What time zone am I in? I don't know!
@@FlyingForFunTrecanair I live in Redwood City, right next to San Carlos. SQL hosted the “World’s Biggest Little Air Show” Saturday before last.
@@FlyingForFunTrecanair If you fly a left downwind for SFO, you’ll likely fly right over my pad.
Show that EFATO Turnback on the runway from about 700 agl and up at least. Sim at alt. is BS. I took turnback training on 2 kinds in 1995. There is a lot of BS on sim at alt Turnbacks. We did them on the runway too. Show it from 700 or up agl.. You are fooling yourself i see.
You said you are a student pilot? Quite the expert for sure.
Chokes dodgy
It works very well, far from dodgy. If you mean the location of the control, well, that just concentrates the mind.
THE WORD IS 'SPUN' NOT 'SPAN' please don't help to destroy our language.
I'd prefer if no-one span, spun or spinned their aeroplane into the ground; words don't hurt.
You are missing a comma after your shouty SPAN, please don't help to destroy our language.
A beautiful ugly airplane!!!
Slap-in a Honda Motor! OMG, you're flying an impending engine failure! Nice Aircraft, but, to be in-the-air, the MOTOR must Work, and provide decent Power...
You appear to be an expert, is it easy to ‘slap in a Honda motor’?
Fool
Had to quit watching at 4 minutes. Couldn't understand a damn thing you were saying!!
🤣 use captions or an ear trumpet.