Nice, that seems like a much safer alternative 😊. I've been in the vicinity of wheels that have disintegrated and have seen the aftermath and it's not pretty. Thanks for the share 👍😁👍.
I love it! The thin web is a great idea and means you don't lose any/much clamping thread. My bench grinders vibrate like crazy, some of these balancers might be worth making for those too. Thanks for the idea! Cheers, Craig
Common wisdom seems to be that balance doesn't matter on wheels less than 8", but then some say it doesn't matter under 10"--so where do you draw the line?
@@sierraspecialtyauto7049 Good question. One of my grinders uses 6" wheels and one uses 8" wheels. I do use a mix of stones and wire wheels and buffing mops, and I'm pretty sure the wire wheel is the worst offender of the lot. Looking around I see various methods and tricks for balancing those, so I might get on with that first, and come back to the stone balancing hub only if it seems necessary. Cheers! Craig
Perhaps you can answer a question I've always had about the way I've seen wheels balanced, using the idea that the heavy side will always go down. Static balance with shaft through center and parallel, horizontal support bars. It doesn't answer the problem of dynamic balance. The wheel is going to be spinning! Big difference on how far from the center the weight is either added or removed for dynamic balance.
I think your answer, unsatisfactory as it is, is in two parts: 1) That until relatively recently a dynamic balancer would have been either technically infeasible, or only affordable in an aerospace environment, probably costing upwards of $100K when an average engineer's annual salary was maybe $15K. A static balancer probably cost around $100. 2) The wheels are pretty homogeneous, so the imbalance is probably down to thickness variations for the most part. And the arbor bearings are pretty beefy. All this meant that a static balance on normal size wheels was "good enough"
@@lwilton "I think your answer, unsatisfactory" Not sure why you think my "question" was unsatisfactory. It was after all a question, not an answer. I do think the solution presented is very good. I do like the idea of an odd # of holes.
@@Larry1942Will I think @l wilton meant "the answer I am giving you" is unsatisfactory, not that your question was. I'm a rank beginner at this, but my feeling is that his answer is very good (as was your question).
Sorry, you misread my sentence, it didn't stop at "unsatisfactory". In retrospect I could have said "the answer" rather than "your answer", which I'd intended to mean "the answer to your question". Let me try that answer again: "The somewhat unsatisfactory answer is that dynamic balancers cost too much until very recently, and static balances worked well enough, even for 18 foot diameter airplane propellers." In 1971 I had a job working on software for a jet engine fan balancer. The balancer took up 5 6 foot high relay racks in the test stand, was connected by a 600 baud telephone line to a computer on the other side of the country, and took about 20 minutes to compute the balance solution, after punching out the test data on paper tape, feeding it into the teletype, and waiting for it to print out the weight and angle.
Here is an idea to try as “cheap dynamic balancing” - new smartphones have accelerometer sensors built in and there are apps that use that sensor to measure vibrations of the phone. I used one called VibSensor for a different project. It provides separate visual indication of X, Y and Z movement. 1. Balance the wheel statically then mount it on the grinder. 2. Strap the phone tightly to the grinder’s spindle housing. By trial& error reposition & adjust the set screws to minimize the vibrations. The phone + app serve as “dial indicator “ for vibrations. I think this could work. I intend to make this balancing wheel some day and try it myself but perhaps someone could test it sooner?
I share your scepticism regarding drilling diverts in grinding wheels. After talking to several toolmakers and engineers who use wheels there was a universal look of horror at the very concept of using 'damaged' or 'modified' wheels. After contacting several suppliers and manufacturers of abrasive products the answer was unequivocally that they would never recommend this method of balancing as it would almost certainly compromise the integrity of the wheel. I have found that, in practice, most modern wheels do not need balancing due to tight manufacturing standards. I do have a few hubs I have made which copy the Jones and Shipman type. I use them on the odd occasion that I find a wheel which has been dressed off center and needs help. Great video, keep up the fab work.
Well done Joe! Haven't got my Chavalier 618 set up yet, but these would also work well on Bench Grinders, especially the Harbor Freight bench grinders.
@Richies Restorations Might be fine almost all the time, but--you can't ring a wheel after you mount it, so you can't check it. Just doesn't feel good to me.
Hey Joe, I don't have a surface grinder(yet) but I like that idea more than material removal, kind of like how you're thinking. If I ever get one, a few of these hubs will be made!
Great idea, thank you for sharing. I am in the process of making balancing hubs for my surface grinder. I cannot get comfortable with drilling the wheels, or paying for the good adapters. I have more time than money.
Great tip for a project. Thanks! You might want to consider using an odd number of holes. With an even number of holes, having two screws directly across from one another would have no effect on balance. One the other hand, when considering an odd number of holes, having two screws almost directly across from one another would give the smallest possible adjustment to balance.
Good thought, Brian. I suspect it would depend on exactly how far out the wheel is and exactly where a screw is in relation to the heaviest spot. Even would be (marginally) better in some cases, odd in others. With 16 holes, lots of chances to get to a good result.
@@sierraspecialtyauto7049 With the light side of the wheel pointing up, install two screws apart from one another , but above 9 and 3 o-clock (that is the reason for the odd number of holes). This will result in much less counterweight effect than having just one screw at the top. If that is not enough weight, move both screws up one position. Continue moving the screws up as needed. At some point, the two opposing screws will have more effect than just one screw centered on the light side. At that point, if more weight is needed, install only one screw centered on the light side, and continue to fine tune using opposing screws again if needed. Using this method will gave the finest possible resolution on balance.
Hey Joe, I know that I am late to this, but I need to say that the only people that think it's okay to tamper with a grinding wheel, are the ones that haven't been there when one explodes! I am a retired machinist after over a half century in the shop, first job at 13 years old in the shop where my dad was a die maker. I have seen wheels explode and it is scary and life threatening! You couldn't pay me enough to use a wheel that has been modified like that! Just my 2 cents. Nice work on the ballancer.
Pretty good idea how it's sort of like trueing balance wheel for a watch only we call it poising the balance. Good show hope you can elaborate on upcoming videos.
Great idea I too really don't like the idea of drilling divots in the wheels. Scary thought but why do you go to so much effort for concentricity on ring and all. As long as it fits the hub that is quite enough. The weights will act on its imbalance as well. Actually if the balancer is a bit out of balance it could be used as a benefit by orienting it. But that would seem fiddly. Really a great tip. Thank you.
Great idea....maybe. Do you think the plastic would holdup off balance at 3500 rpm?? The plastic ring would be off balance, to balance the grinding wheel. Would be a lot of pressure on the thin web of plastic. Or am I wrong?
@Maciej Jan Długosz , you might want to brush up on the latest, 21st century, plastics. Have you heard that metal is even being printed? BTW, the award would only be given if you are foolish enough to stand in line with the wheel with the guard off at any time. And don’t forget safety squints.
Thank you for the shout-out. I have an article on balancing rings on my website on kineticprecision.com. I am completely in agreement with Joe about drilling out wheels to balance.
Barry, Why so critical of this gentleman who spent much more than five minutes preparing and demonstrating his balancing ring? The first two minutes are the reason for the last three.
Nice Job. 👍👍
Great idea!
Great idea and execution
Very nice Joe.
Nice work
Nice video Joe. Love the idea. Thanks! Joe
Nice, that seems like a much safer alternative 😊. I've been in the vicinity of wheels that have disintegrated and have seen the aftermath and it's not pretty. Thanks for the share 👍😁👍.
Great idea Joe.
Thanks, Tom. Hope your move is going well.
Very nice idea Joe! I will steal this idea.
Help yourself, Yuchol. Want to be a charter member of Spencer Webb's ASPCGW?
I love it! The thin web is a great idea and means you don't lose any/much clamping thread. My bench grinders vibrate like crazy, some of these balancers might be worth making for those too. Thanks for the idea! Cheers, Craig
Common wisdom seems to be that balance doesn't matter on wheels less than 8", but then some say it doesn't matter under 10"--so where do you draw the line?
@@sierraspecialtyauto7049 Good question. One of my grinders uses 6" wheels and one uses 8" wheels. I do use a mix of stones and wire wheels and buffing mops, and I'm pretty sure the wire wheel is the worst offender of the lot. Looking around I see various methods and tricks for balancing those, so I might get on with that first, and come back to the stone balancing hub only if it seems necessary. Cheers! Craig
Thanks Joe, I like the idea.
Thank you, Steve. You're a big part of the reason I've been wanting a grinder. It's been fun watching you bring yours back from the scrap pile.
Perhaps you can answer a question I've always had about the way I've seen wheels balanced, using the idea that the heavy side will always go down. Static balance with shaft through center and parallel, horizontal support bars. It doesn't answer the problem of dynamic balance. The wheel is going to be spinning! Big difference on how far from the center the weight is either added or removed for dynamic balance.
I think your answer, unsatisfactory as it is, is in two parts:
1) That until relatively recently a dynamic balancer would have been either technically infeasible, or only affordable in an aerospace environment, probably costing upwards of $100K when an average engineer's annual salary was maybe $15K. A static balancer probably cost around $100.
2) The wheels are pretty homogeneous, so the imbalance is probably down to thickness variations for the most part. And the arbor bearings are pretty beefy. All this meant that a static balance on normal size wheels was "good enough"
@@lwilton "I think your answer, unsatisfactory" Not sure why you think my "question" was unsatisfactory. It was after all a question, not an answer. I do think the solution presented is very good. I do like the idea of an odd # of holes.
@@Larry1942Will I think @l wilton meant "the answer I am giving you" is unsatisfactory, not that your question was. I'm a rank beginner at this, but my feeling is that his answer is very good (as was your question).
Sorry, you misread my sentence, it didn't stop at "unsatisfactory". In retrospect I could have said "the answer" rather than "your answer", which I'd intended to mean "the answer to your question".
Let me try that answer again:
"The somewhat unsatisfactory answer is that dynamic balancers cost too much until very recently, and static balances worked well enough, even for 18 foot diameter airplane propellers."
In 1971 I had a job working on software for a jet engine fan balancer. The balancer took up 5 6 foot high relay racks in the test stand, was connected by a 600 baud telephone line to a computer on the other side of the country, and took about 20 minutes to compute the balance solution, after punching out the test data on paper tape, feeding it into the teletype, and waiting for it to print out the weight and angle.
Here is an idea to try as “cheap dynamic balancing” - new smartphones have accelerometer sensors built in and there are apps that use that sensor to measure vibrations of the phone. I used one called VibSensor for a different project. It provides separate visual indication of X, Y and Z movement.
1. Balance the wheel statically then mount it on the grinder. 2. Strap the phone tightly to the grinder’s spindle housing. By trial& error reposition & adjust the set screws to minimize the vibrations. The phone + app serve as “dial indicator “ for vibrations. I think this could work.
I intend to make this balancing wheel some day and try it myself but perhaps someone could test it sooner?
Great alternative .
Hey Max--just got your stickers...thanks. Will be featured on the next regular video.
Excellent tip, Joe, Thanks
You're very welcome...thanks for watching.
I share your scepticism regarding drilling diverts in grinding wheels. After talking to several toolmakers and engineers who use wheels there was a universal look of horror at the very concept of using 'damaged' or 'modified' wheels. After contacting several suppliers and manufacturers of abrasive products the answer was unequivocally that they would never recommend this method of balancing as it would almost certainly compromise the integrity of the wheel.
I have found that, in practice, most modern wheels do not need balancing due to tight manufacturing standards. I do have a few hubs I have made which copy the Jones and Shipman type. I use them on the odd occasion that I find a wheel which has been dressed off center and needs help. Great video, keep up the fab work.
awesome Idea Joe .. ENJOYED !!
Thanks, Shawn.
that's a great idea mate! thanks for supporting #tipsblitz19 mate !
Thanks, JB.
Well done Joe! Haven't got my Chavalier 618 set up yet, but these would also work well on Bench Grinders, especially the Harbor Freight bench grinders.
Why are there small metal rings placed at the center of grinding wheels ?
I think that is a great idea. Great job on the video Joe. I will have to make one and give this a try.
Thanks, Randy. Glad you didn't mind my taking your name in vain!!
I too was not keen on the idea of drilling wheels by hey the balance ring looks to be a great solution.
Cheers
Peter
Glad you like it, Peter.
@Richies Restorations Might be fine almost all the time, but--you can't ring a wheel after you mount it, so you can't check it. Just doesn't feel good to me.
Hey Joe, I don't have a surface grinder(yet) but I like that idea more than material removal, kind of like how you're thinking. If I ever get one, a few of these hubs will be made!
Hey Everett, these will work well on HF bench grinders too.
Great idea, thank you for sharing. I am in the process of making balancing hubs for my surface grinder. I cannot get comfortable with drilling the wheels, or paying for the good adapters. I have more time than money.
Great tip for a project. Thanks! You might want to consider using an odd number of holes. With an even number of holes, having two screws directly across from one another would have no effect on balance. One the other hand, when considering an odd number of holes, having two screws almost directly across from one another would give the smallest possible adjustment to balance.
Good thought, Brian. I suspect it would depend on exactly how far out the wheel is and exactly where a screw is in relation to the heaviest spot. Even would be (marginally) better in some cases, odd in others. With 16 holes, lots of chances to get to a good result.
@@sierraspecialtyauto7049 With the light side of the wheel pointing up, install two screws apart from one another , but above 9 and 3 o-clock (that is the reason for the odd number of holes). This will result in much less counterweight effect than having just one screw at the top. If that is not enough weight, move both screws up one position. Continue moving the screws up as needed. At some point, the two opposing screws will have more effect than just one screw centered on the light side. At that point, if more weight is needed, install only one screw centered on the light side, and continue to fine tune using opposing screws again if needed. Using this method will gave the finest possible resolution on balance.
Hey Joe, I know that I am late to this, but I need to say that the only people that think it's okay to tamper with a grinding wheel, are the ones that haven't been there when one explodes! I am a retired machinist after over a half century in the shop, first job at 13 years old in the shop where my dad was a die maker. I have seen wheels explode and it is scary and life threatening! You couldn't pay me enough to use a wheel that has been modified like that! Just my 2 cents. Nice work on the ballancer.
I have another project to add to the list. I love it, great idea.
Ha. I have two of your projects--arbor and balancing stand--on my list.
This is great. I feel the same about drilling my wheels. I just can’t do it!
Thanks for being part of #tipsblitz19
Thanks John. Glad to be a part of this year's blitz.
Awesome Joe...thanks for sharing and I got a project to add to the list
Pretty good idea how it's sort of like trueing balance wheel for a watch only we call it poising the balance. Good show hope you can elaborate on upcoming videos.
Thanks, Larry. When I get my balance stand built, I'll be recording it in use.
Great idea I too really don't like the idea of drilling divots in the wheels. Scary thought but why do you go to so much effort for concentricity on ring and all. As long as it fits the hub that is quite enough. The weights will act on its imbalance as well. Actually if the balancer is a bit out of balance it could be used as a benefit by orienting it. But that would seem fiddly. Really a great tip. Thank you.
How about 3D printing the ring? Then you can make enough so that all the wheels you generally use can be mounted on their own arbors .
Great idea....maybe. Do you think the plastic would holdup off balance at 3500 rpm?? The plastic ring would be off balance, to balance the grinding wheel. Would be a lot of pressure on the thin web of plastic. Or am I wrong?
@Maciej Jan Długosz , you might want to brush up on the latest, 21st century, plastics. Have you heard that metal is even being printed?
BTW, the award would only be given if you are foolish enough to stand in line with the wheel with the guard off at any time. And don’t forget safety squints.
if you listen to youtube you'll think a lathe is a necessary bench grinder accessory...
well thoroughly enjoyed this. we expect a lot more videos now you have gone down the rabbit hole of surface grinding. 😜
Yes, Ma'am. It will likely be a month or so before I get the grinder home, but I expect to feature it often.
New to your channel, new subscriber. Thanks for sharing. I like it.
Gary
Great job....lol.."man it's hard to make a 5 min video"....that broke me up..
A warning to anyone using earbuds - there is no sound on one channel.
I like it thanks for sharing.
Play Safe From Elliot Lake Ontario Canada.
Thank you for the shout-out. I have an article on balancing rings on my website on kineticprecision.com. I am completely in agreement with Joe about drilling out wheels to balance.
You're very welcome. I read the article weeks ago when I began my no-drill quest.
Sierra Specialty Auto We should start the ASPCGW.
@@SpencerWebb Ha. I'm in.
I don't even have surface grinder but looks like a fun project tho.
Thanks, Bert.
Would work on a bench grinder as well.
just realized I thought I was a subscriber....errr!!! just hit the button now....atb
You don't need a 5 minutes video. You wasted your (and ours) time for the first 2 minutes. Last 3 minutes are informative and interesting..
Barry, Why so critical of this gentleman who spent much more than five minutes preparing and demonstrating his balancing ring? The first two minutes are the reason for the last three.
Always with the negative waves, Barrie.