Had a drill sergeant in basic training overhear someone say they've never seen this movie. That night, he took us into the classroom to do "land nav training." Instead, he said it is truly unamerican to have not seen this movie, so he played the movie for the entire company.
@@shawnthomasbrown3867 he won drill Sgt of the cycle. He wasn’t my platoons, but was universally respected by the entire company. He cared more about creating good soldiers than he did acting like a psychopath. Carried more weight that way imo.
True fact: Rick Rescorla served as a lieutenant in this battle. He went on to become a security expert working for a very large banking firm. He was in one of the towers on 9/11. He was responsible for evacuating over two thousand people from the firm he worked for. But he knew that there were more people from the other tenants who needed to be rescued. He went back in, but never came out. RIP to that bad ass.
That’s an incredible story. God bless the veterans who continue to serve in various capacities, whatever the need, in and out of the military. And everyone who finds a way to be useful and beneficial to others in spite of all the forces driving us toward selfish, stingy lives. It’s a fight til the day you die.
Sgt Major Plumlee was a real badass. Not only did he participate in this battle, he was in the 82nd previously and jumped into Normandy and in Market Garden. Guy was legit.
He made all four 82nd jumps. Sicily, Salerno, Normandy, and Holland . My father was with the Canadian 1st Inf Div. They had to recover the bodies of the paratroopers they accidentally dropped into the mountains at Salerno.
I thought I remembered hearing/reading about Plumley and claims of stolen valour? If I recall correctly some of his claims of combat exploits and awards were proven to be lies or extensively embellished. He wore many awards to which he was not entitled and an extensive review of his service records raised many questions and doubts. I believe the US Army even began an investigation after information was brought to light and that they themselves confirmed the discrepancies
I was a Grunt. Never saw combat. Was in 1989-2004. It just never happened. However I was 7ID from 89-92 and my senior NCO's were all from the 173rd in Vietnam. My platoon Sergeant said you want to get so low your buttons get in the way...then return fire with well aimed shots. They were a treasure trove of field craft and experience. I listened.
Ranger Bat then the OPFOR at Ft Polk before 9.11. Maintaining the Ranger Standard while conducting non stop guerilla type operations as a singleton or as part of a company sized operation was extremely challenging. Look up the history of the 509 and see how it is related to both Ranger and SF units. Seeing individuals wearing a black beret perched on their head like a chef's hat and with a uniform that looks like you slept in it still offends my sensibilities.
Also can I just say, Joe Galloway was a fucking badass. He actually earned a Bronze Star during this engagement. Also.....he actually picked up a rifle and used it.
I was friends/ worked with a Vietnam Vet that served as a huey door gunner, he told me this movie was the only one to ever get close to portraying Vietnam, especially Huey calvery and Huey gunships based on his experiences... I was honestly shocked that he watched it when it came out, he didn't really talk about his time in Vietnam to anyone except a couple of other local vets that I talked with after he passed, and for some reason me as a teenager. I guess maybe because I surprised him by knowlege and interest in military history at a young age, or maybe I reminded him of someone he knew... He never told these stories to his own kids, or even my dad, one of his closest friends for decades, which is how I knew he was ever in Vietnam before Jack told me a few stories at seemingly random times when we were alone at work (my summer job)... One was about how his best friend over there was killed by a 12-14 year old boy while on R&R 😐 He passed away several years ago from multiple cancers that absolutely ate him up. It turned out to be from agent orange dispersion flights around their helo base and from helicopters he was on doing deforestation runs... It was already too late for treatment by the time he was diagnosed, and he had obviously dealt with the pain for years before seeking answers, but he still hung on as long as he could... RIP Jack. This movie will always remind me of him 👍
I was one of the FX guys on this show and had the pleasure of meeting col. Hal Moore of which Mel character is based on.He was the on set consultant and Mel listened to him. I was on second unit which is the action unit my most recognizable contribution is the Napalm strike.
I had an uncle who piloted a Huey medivac in Vietnam. Apparently, when he came home, he didn't say a word for weeks, was skin and bones, and the only thing he ever said was he'd retire before he ever had to go back into the service. The nicest, humblest man you could ever meet.
Saw this in the theater alongside a large group of Vietnam veterans on opening day, I've never seen so many men with tears in their eyes in my life. Moving experience for sure.
I went to the Infantry Officer Advance Course in 1989 and they had a full day seminar with LTG Moore and about 20 of the surviving NCOs and officers from this, including Ernie Savage. Truly amazing to spend time with these great soldiers. Hardest part of this movie is the notifications to the wives. Heartbreaking.
One of the most haunting things I’ve ever heard is from Joe Galloway in reference to Jimmy Nakayama. “That Boy is my Nightmare”, sometimes there is just no warning for PTSD.
The reason you hear the comments about Custer was due to the fact that before this war before they went to Vietnam they were re-activated as the seventh cavalry which was Custer's unit
Imagine how they felt when the "refugees" that got imported were put up in his towns only hotel for the rest of their lives. My family watched their status as some of their California towns first founders fall into confusion as other cultures overwhelmed the townspeople and bought up property with welfare money. My family members killed to protect that town but the government imported the enemy every damn time in every conflict after WWII, so my German family that served America in WWI fighting their brothers were truly betrayed. Obviously they didn't serve in WWII after seeing what "the good guys" did.
@@spacecowboy1438 what are you on about? The US did not 'imported the enemy' from every conflict after WWII. Germans, italians, and japanese immigrants were already in the US before any world wars. Grenada? Panama? Iraq? Afghanistan? There aren't massive swaths of refugees from those countries in the US. Only 'imported enemy' would be the nazi scientist brought over to work for the American government.
My dad is not someone who goes to see movies often but when this came out he wanted to go. He said it took all he had to not get up and walk out because the movie did such a good job showing exactly how it was in Vietnam. He told me a few people his age did get up and leave at times. Like many he doesn't talk about Vietnam beyond his first impression of what he was going into was the jungle on fire at the base he was landing at. So I thank every soldier who goes out and does what most can't/won't do.
There are several points in history when you can only imagine what it was like for these warfighters in those situations. I late Marine, Chosen vet, related how everything went sideways when his unit received a mass retreat for all UN forces. He said in reality it was a rout, mass chaos, fire and snow everywhere. He said all you could do was get back to the coast because nothing was going to stop the 300,000 Chinese regulars that had flooded over the N Korean border.
Col Moore is a GOAT in league with Maj Dick Winters. He studied the Indochina French War, studied books and spoke with French vets, then learned everything he could about helos and vertical envelopment.
First time I met the green berets was when I was a young marine in a convoy preparing to ambush an army unit . It was a night op and We saw a flare pop. We all looked at it like it was so pretty. Then all hell broke loose . No one in the convoy survived . 5 green Berets took out 6 squads of tank killers . After the maneuver we learn what special operators can do . I was 18 and fascinated how easy you can die .
Years ago when this movie first came out on DVD set down the watch this my dad who was a Vietnam vet. He made it part way through it and said he couldn't watch it anymore he said it brought back too many memories.
My dad always makes fun of military movies, but this one and Forest Gump he says are the closest to the reality he remembers from his enlistment in air cav in 1968. He had me kind of later in life, so I didn’t get to talk to him as much about it as I wish I had, but then he never wanted his daughters to know much about the ugly parts anyway. Im glad you watched this one on here. Thank you.
15:20 fresh sock and powder was the best they could do back in the day. Mole skin wasn’t invented in 1967. When I was a LRRP we used to wear ladies nylons to prevent blisters. It sounds weird now but it was all we had back then.
This is one of Mel Gibson’s greatest movies. Easily one of the best War films ever made in my own personal opinion anyway. I love this film because it is so violent and realistic. lol
I was in a Unit call ANGLICO for 8 years, and we did nothing but CFF and CAS. Thank you for explaining the JTAC roles, I feel like people don't understand the difficulty of controlling aircraft and moving mortar tgt locations while trying to fight the enemy and move with the team. Mad Respect guys, keep up the good work.
Just discovered your channel - have never found a more intelligent, informative and balanced commentary - I look forward to seeing all the rest!!! Cheers from Ireland!
I’m forth generation 1st CAV (INF). Well done! It’s a unit and combat patch I wore with true pride. Thank you for showing such respect to this movie, this historical battle and the men fought in it.
My grandfather was MACV SOG on fob 4. He actually arrived a few weeks later to the company this movie was made about, and they had very little numbers. He helped put the body of the guy he replaced on the helicopter. Lifespan for scout platoon leaders was pretty low. We didn't know what group he was with until he passed, and found his team coin.
Love the interviews with the SOG guys that multiple podcasts have done. Those guys were cowboys and absolute beasts. Plus their sense of humor is great.
General Moore stayed true to his promise. No man under his command ever became MIA. Moore fought for years to get Bruce "Snakeshit" Crandall and Ed "Too Tall" Freeman the Medal of Honor. Crandell to his credit, insisted that his name be withdrawn from consideration, until Freeman received his. Their medal citations are a testament to their genuine badassery. Joe Galloway received the only civilian Bronze Star with V awarded during the entire Vietnam War, for his actions in the Ia Drang.
One of the best things that they showed during this movie are small little scenes about the tactics and situations they were facing. In the early beginning there's a scene where they joke about the French army being a joke but later Moore is reading a book about the French war in Vietnam and he was breaking down every mistake the French made and what the result was. Another is before they fly into the battle they discuss how the enemy hit another unit or outpost inflicted no casualties and then retreated to the mountains and he just felt it was an ambush and with how big the landing zone was and how far away it was he would not have full strength for hours. It highlighted alot of the mistakes that where made especially the belief of superiority. The North Vietnamese effectiveness with their tunnels is almost identical to how the Japanese used their tunnels and bunkers against the US on Iwo Jima and Okinawa and those were two of the hardest battles in the Pacific during WW2
Also, I’m not military nor do I have family in the military but I love these videos because you guys really help me understand what’s actually going on in military/war movies (which are my favorite to watch). So, thank you guys and thank you for your service
Blachawk Down and We were Soldiers came out in the movies a few weeks apart in late 2001 or early 2002 I think. I watched both movies and I was sold in joining the Army. I enlisted a few months afterwards and in July of 02 I was in Ft Benning GA for Basic training. I enlisted as an 11X-Ray and I ended up becoming an 11 Charlie. Fun fact...while I was in 30th AG, Pat Tillman was there processing. I think he got there a couple of weeks ahead of my group.
For blisters I used to use a hypodermic needle to drain the pus and I would attempt to keep the needle in place and refill the cavity with neosporin. This way the blister was still full of a liquid but it was healing at a faster speed and providing a small level of physical pain resistance. I would apply superglue over the hole and do a couple layers and make it a hard cap. If anything was going to burst open it would be a different part of the skin, make it solid. Something I learned from a paramedic who liked hiking
"We Were Soldiers Once, and Young" by reporter Joe Galloway and LTG Hal Moore was required reading at IOBC 2/11 Inf back in the day. Excellent read, lessons to keep you and your men alive.
The book the movie is based on is absolutely astounding. Covers the events of the battle and events going on around it in much greater detail. Written by the Colonel and the reporter. Well worth the read.
It sure is, and it relates the entire Ia Drang engagement as it was, which was about three times as involved as what the film portrays, what with two other (major) landing zones, casualties, and eventual withdrawal.
My dad was in the 1/9th 1st Cav in 68/69 in Vietnam. He told me of all Vietnam war movies he’d watched, this one was the most accurate to his experiences in Vietnam.
I'm sure I'm not the first to say but the book Colonel Moore and Joe Galloway wrote about the battle is very good cause it also explains the nastier fight a few miles away where an American unit got literally cut apart. Ia Drang was a hell of a place
The Vietnam scenes were filmed on Fort Hunter Liggett in Central CA. While on deployment in 03-04 we worked with technicians on Camp Roberts that were extras in this movie.
Big props to Buck talking about war and the enemies perspective at roughly 6:30. Kurt as well. That might be the first time I’ve heard a member of the US military, in interviews podcasts or when meeting in person, talk like that. I think you guys have far more combat experience than any soldiers I’ve met or heard discuss that subject…..I think your perspectives on the “good vs evil” narrative and having a good amount of combat experience is related.
The people who don't understand this dynamic are the ones who demanded that statues of Confederate Generals be pulled down. They are the ones who continually call Confederate Soldiers "traitors", and saying that they were only "defending slavery". I'm a boy from Minnesota, so my loyalty was always with the North. But while I studied the Civil War (back when I was in 7th through 10th grades) I became an admirer of the men who fought for the South. There were amazingly brave, courageous, and self-sacrificing men on both sides of that horrible conflict; and ALL of them were Americans. I was a Supply Administration Specialist in the Marines, and served in peacetime, so I have no combat experience; but I do know that a true warrior doesn't hate his enemy; a true warrior RESPECTS his enemy, and doesn't take that enemy lightly.
As a cavalryman this movie, and the unit involved holds a special place in my heart always, especially since 2nd infantry division was my unit. As far as rucking pain is concerned, on the 12 miler at the end of cav osut I had hip pain and shoulder pain, but the eyelets for laces on my boots digging into my shin was one of the worst pains ever, nearly made me quit that ruck.
Absolutely a huge fan of you guys addressing just how important foot care is. We all know, if we are honest with ourselves, that very few men can tough it out with a terrible blister rucking for 30 miles with 50 lbs on your back. Some may make it a few miles... but when it gets worse with every step, in combination with other aches and pains the accumulate through training I can imagine that foot trouble has been a road block for many in SFAS that prevented them from making it all the way. The best solution is preventative care - like Buck said, when you notice the blister it's basically too late already.
Try doing a 25-miler with a cracked bone in one ankle and twisting the other ankle in a washout rut. To complete Infantry School you had to finish the 25 mile hump through the "hills" of Southern California after a week out in the field doing live fire ranges and platoon-on-platoon ambushes and assaults. We'd get a 10 minute rest after every hour to sit down, change socks, powder your feet, and/or have doc apply or replace mole skin on blisters. But taking off your boots becomes a bit difficult with both ankles swelled up, almost impossible to get them back on. Luckily we had a good doc who wrapped my ankles up nice and tight with ace bandages, but it still wasn't a picnic. Other docs just put guys with similar injuries straight on the medical vehicle. Usually by mile 5 most of the weaklings had dropped out and were on the medical vehicle, and were going to get recycled and had to do the course entire course again. After mile 10-15 the only thing to stop you was a serious injury and I had both but finished. My 5'9" 100-nothing pound body outlasted taller, stronger, and more muscular guys showing its 90% mental.
The thing about the chopper pilot is he was going back and forth for days bringing home bodies with his helicopter drenched in their blood and filled with holes.. this was his way of helping those men on the ground. That's why that scene got me.
Dude, your points about micro management are spot on. It kills the creativity of the team and doesn't allow for the growth of your troops. I loved utilizing the creativity and thoughts of my joes. Not that I let them run the squad but we worked so much better together when we listened to each other's ideas, good or bad. They trusted me (their squad leader) to make the best calls after going over ideas (if the time allowed it) and I trusted them to move and complete the job with a purpose. Not to mention communication was easier since we were all on the same page. I loved being a good ol' buck SGT.
My father in law has a friend that flew with Major Crandall, I asked him about the scene where he pulled his sidearm on the other pilot, he told me that he wasn't flying with him at that time, but he had heard the story and if you knew him you would believe it
Another good review ! Sometimes you have to mention that these are "films" , not "documentaries" . I always appreciate that you lads never glorify War, never sugar coat thé absolute horror it creates. Have you watched Danger Close, about thé Australians in Vietnam ? It is definitely on a parr with We Were Soldiers.
To the tough guys listen to this video. I rucked a ton and never had terrible foot issues, but once I got to selection my feet went to shit. Buy a foot care kit because even if you've never had issues it will happen when you're not prepared for it. Also, don't be afraid to see the medics at selection for minor foot care issues.
It cost me my place , in the 82nd. I made it through Basic/AIT , Jump School, and on to the 82nd. After 8 months of OJT with Combat Engineers, they realized the problem was just too bad, and gave me a Medical. They offered me a desk Job, but I was ABN INF , with a secondary as 12B1P. No, a desk just wasn't going to do. AATW
I had a blister break and get infected on one of my ankles during Boot Camp. My foot swelled up, and thought they'd have to cut the damn thing off. I was on light duty for about a week, and was in danger of being set back in training before the infection went down. But it taught me that you don't ignore "small things" like blisters anywhere near or on your feet.
The one thing this movie does that I don't think any other movie has done is covering the impact on the wives and girls back home. As a soldier I never thought about...how my wife would be told if the worst case happened. And Hal's wife in this is a true "Household 6". I can't recall a war movie ever giving that topic any exposure. So IMHO this might be the most well rounded treatment of war and its impact ever. It is not anti-war...but not pro-war. It describes flaws in leadership but also great leadership. It brings the war home on the battlefield and at the home front. Really a classic if you think about the difficulty of covering this war. Thanks for the video!
Hal Moore, Basil L. Plumply and Joe Galloway were all behind the camera and they said the film was true to everything that happened. According to Basil L Plumply’s family Sam Elliot who played the Sgt Major underplayed him and he was as tough as they come. Kurt and Shawn you need to read the book because the next battle at LZ Albany was three times as bad as LZ X-Ray.
The only thing that was drastically altered was the end of the battle. That is if I remember the book right. Which I read 20 years ago. There was no dramatic charge up the hill where the choppers then tore the enemy apart. If I remember correctly.. the Vietnamese simply melted away on the third day and the battle just stopped. Very anticlimactic by Hollywood standards. So they had to make a dramatic victorious ending.
When you look at a picture of SGMAG Plumbly after he retired, he actually looks like a kindly old grandpa. But when you see him when he was still serving, you'd be hard pressed to want to get near him for fear he'd bite your head off just for fun.
I enlisted in the Army after having dropped out of college due to financial difficulties. I did return to college after having served and I earned my Bachelor of Arts in December 1992. I wanted to attend law school, but I began to develop the onset of my VA diagnosed PTSD, anxiety, and depression. I served as a United States Infantry Sergeant, and I earned my Combat Infantryman Badge for my service inside the Korean DMZ (December 1983 - December 1984). I subsequently served as a Police Sergeant, and I retired as a Federal Investigator. The fear and anxiety can be managed, but you fool yourself into the irrational concept known as, "I must bury my emotions." But, the vivid thoughts memories will be and are triggered by the most obscure exposures to a stimulus. Every single day of your life is filled with a direct bond to and with everyone who has experienced the futility of a firefight.
As the result of using Full Auto alot during the Vietnam War was the reasons they put 3-round burst in later M16s (before bringing back full auto but that's another story).
I love this beers and break down. I remember wanting to be a machine gunner because of the the scene where he asks the gunner to get to his position in the beginning
Even though it is a naval film, I would love to see you all review and react to Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World as a treatise on combat leadership and motivating your men when the odds seem stacked against you.
04:00 I think the Vietcong and NVA were still using old communist strategies like human wave attacks. They weren't as concerned about casualties. Hence the more haphazard ambush where they simply started charging.
As important as the "win" was for the guys, for the validation of the concept of the air mobile/air cav doctrine, it was equally important if poignant that as the enemy commander recognized the bravery and skill of his adversary...he also understood the truth and stated it at the end. We thought we had "won". This "win" only extended the war because we thought we had the answer to beat the North Vietnamese. We didn't and eventually we withdrew. We forgot, as we often continue to forget, the primary lesson of Clausewitz.
Kind of. Tactically, the US was superior to the North Vietnamese in every way. Every major battle (not skirmish or fire fight) was a victory for the US armed forces with a stunning loss of life for the VC and the NVA. After the failed invasion during the Tet Offensive of 1968 the North Vietnamese commanders were ready to commit suicide fearing they had just lost the war because of the loss of life and losing all the territory they had initially gained. Somehow they got their hands on an American newspaper and changed their minds due to all the anti war rhetoric. Then they knew all they had to do was make it as bloody and costly for the Americans as they could and just wait out the American public. It was the politicians that really prevented the US from an overall victory. Operation Linebacker and Linebacker II blasted Hanoi back to the Stone Age and leveled the Ho Chi Minh trail. The North Vietnamese would cry uncle, go to the peace table only if the bombing stopped, then during the peace talks would rebuild and rearm, then launch another campaign. SecDef McNamara and his "whiz kids" were accountants at Ford and GM and treated the military as a profitable company. They had expectations for every XX bullets fired there should be XX dead bad guys. You can't fight a war with that kind of micromanaging. LTG Hal Moore said it himself in the book that when he was called to DC immediately after this battle to meet with the President, the Secretary of Defense, and the Army Chief of Staff to brief them on his encounter he said he knew this war was already lost after that meeting. LTG Moore said that the things the US military needed to do in order to win victory they all denied permission to do. LTG Moore said that the NVA all pulled back into Laos and Cambodia and that the US military needed to cross the borders and go get them and their supply hubs and the US military couldn't do that. The Marines at Khe Sanh were constantly shelled from artillery positions inside Laotian and Cambodian borders and the Marines couldn't fire back. Talk about being hand cuffed, and still under these ROEs Gen. Westmoreland still tried to fight a war of attrition. HOWEVER, not to be too harsh on the politicians they did have a big monster to worry about - any misstep they took could possibly pull communist China and/or the USSR into the conflict.
this is why i watch you guys. so knowledgeable. literally listened to you guys describe every emotion i had in my head with the whole blister situation, it was fucking spot on hahah. you guys know your shit.
The talk about taking care of your feet spoke to my soul. Got heal blisters real bad in ‘03 that my DI would kick during every hygiene inspection when I was a boot. Still have the scars to this day from those damn things. Taught me a valuable lesson that I still champion to this day
@15:00 about the nerve damage in our feet. now i see why flat-footed people should avoid the infantry. I'm flat footed and served in the Marine Corps Infantry and my feet are so bad the VA has to prescribe pain killers to numb the pain just enough for me to function in everyday life. I credit my VA Docs for saving my life, but mannnn the pain is real, and can WILL stay with me for the rest of my life. Luckily, I've developed the ability to tolerate that pain just enough to function like everyone else around me. What you said about blisters and feet pain is 100% facts! I hope modern day service members and Vets are taking your advice/words to heart. Semper Fi
Fun fact: The cool part about about Army Attack Aviation; they are treated as maneuver and they can be given guidance/requests for CAS from non-JTAC/non-JFO personnel. But it’s obviously smarter/easier to have a JTAC or FO managing those assets for you if they’re already providing coverage
Nice I’m glad you guys finally did this one. And one of my professors in college since he helps a lot of vets met the real Hal More 10 years ago. And to Mel Gibson a lot of credit for how he dose war movies he likes to show people what veterans actually go through and he also did it when he did hacksaw ridge to with Andrew Gardfelid 7 years ago.
I grew up watching we where soldiers, saving private ryan and brave heart all on vhs and now this is easily one of my favourite youtube channels im so glad i found it
The only BS part of this movie was them charging up the hill, it didn't happen. What happened was the NVA pulled back allowing Moore's battalion to be pulled out and the rest to walk out to the second part of the battle at LZ Albany. Sgt. Savage was a badass and took command of the remainder of the cutoff platoon until help arrived. Great movie and thank you for the knowledge of your experience to help fill in the gaps. My father got to Vietnam 2 weeks before this battle took place, he was an RTO with the 1st Infantry. Thankfully he came home, but my Great-uncle was KIA in '67 as a Major with Air Force.
I agree there was no charge up the hill. Here is my list of inaccuracies between truth and the movie. Inaccuracies 1) The French Groupment Mobile 100 was not wiped out. They took heavy losses but formed a perimeter and held on. They were not eliminated as the movie portrayed. Nguyen Huu An was not in this fight 2) Cav patches were not worn in the fight, these uniforms were not issued until after the fight at X-Ray. 3) Hal Moore did attend Harvard but not until after he came back from Vietnam 4) Plumley did not say Herrick wanted to win medals. Moore considered promoting Herrick to lead a Recon Platoon and Plumley said “Forcefully”…”If you put Herrick in there he’ll get them all killed” 5) Plumley had no issue with Savage. Plumley was very tough and fair, but he wasn’t a dick. 6) The NVA had no underground bunkers on the Chu Pong Massif. After the fight at X-Ray when the B-52’s were sent in there was nowhere to hide. Colonel An just watched the bombing runs, counting them. He said they got close enough to make him deaf in one ear for a week but not close enough to kill them 7) The flashlight on Moore’s Right Breast survived the battle and did not stop a bullet 8) When the men in the First Cav left for Vietnam all of their families were kicked off Fort Benning. Most went to live in Trailer parks or stayed with family. But they did not reside near each other on base. Julia Moore saw Jack Gell’s funeral on the news and flipped out insisting she be informed of any casualty thereafter and would follow the vehicle sent by the Army to wherever the family lived 9) Hal Moore already knew Joe Galloway and so did Plumley. 10) Jos Galloway carried his own weapons; he did not need to be given an M-16 by Plumley. 11) Charlie Beckwith had given Galloway an M-16 a month prior at the Siege of Plei Me 12) The actions of Jack Geoghegan prior to his death were the real actions of Walter Joe Marm eliminating a machine gun nest for which he got shot up and was awarded the Medal of Honor. Geoghegan was shot while helping the injured Godbolt in real life and in movie. 13) Barbara Geoghegan moved to Connecticut to be near Jack’s parents. When news of his death reached Jack’s parents Barbara was visiting Jacks elderly aunt whose husband passed 2 years prior. She was not living on Millers Loop at Fort Benning. 14) Julia Moore accompanied the Army Chaplain for the families of 1/7 who all lived off base. Robert McDade was not married and the job fell to the Executive officer and Sergeant Major’s wives for the 2md of 7th. 15) There was no final charge and thus no direct support from Huey’s as Mel Gibson comes face to face with enemy lines. This never happened The enemy simply retreated from the Battlefield 16) The Huey’s had no fixed guns in 1965. Crandall and Freeman were awarded the MOH based on their 20+ flights into enemy fire with no fixed weapon system. They had door gunners. 17) The French Bugle was recovered by Rick Rescorla not Clyde Savage and it was recovered by Rescorla at LZ Albany not LZ X-Ray. 18) The NVA did not leave the Massif. Most of them were regrouping in the forest/ jungle below while other units were moving toward the LZ in support 19) Weapon and Uniform issues too numerous to mention. 20) There were not enough M-16’s of the original version available for the movie. So, a later version is used 21) Improper awards worn by men who could not have earned them prior. 22) Improperly worn insignia
@@jenniferlenfestey5335 Moore and Crandall knew each other prior to the battle. They worked for months with the 11th Air Assault Division (Test) They practiced the concepts of Air Mobility together.
31:14 Fun fact, we also have IR Illumination rounds for use with night vision. I only used them with our mortars, but IR Illumination can be used with arty and I think even 40mm grenade launchers. I've never seen the 40mm in use though. Also, it's a lot more than a few seconds to know if you're off. Probably more like 30-40 seconds. Mortar missions at night are so much more challenging, especially on FDC (fire direction control). You're calculating multiple guns at the same time. One gun will be running illumination, which has to have been fired and adjusted in not only the correct grid, but in elevation too. Also taking into effect when the illumination round is expected to illuminate and last. To fire on a target with mortars, you have to be able to see the target, so you are timing illumination to show the target and impact with HE after that to help FOs give adjustments. That's what makes firing on known points so much easier/faster. You can tell your gun line to fire on information they already have written down at their own gun. You give them the ability to fire without a lot of information. Illume gun knows the deflection, elevation, and timing to fire rounds. A good gun grew will have a "stair-step" look in the sky where your illumination is going out as the next round begins to pop in the sky.
In 1978 I was working with a guy that was in this battle as his baptism of fire in Vietnam. while he went out on other patrols he was never as scared as he was during this battle.
18:06 You're right, I almost got taken out by a blister during a Disneyland campaign. Started at 10:00am and lasted through 10:00pm. I was able to ignore it through the Haunted Mansion, but it started becoming mission critical during It's a Small World...barely made it through Space Mounted. I almost missed the fireworks at the end of the closing parade because of the pain. It was so bad that I turned down a Dole Whip.
The last time I had a blister (not that long ago) I had walked to the town next to mine and was on my way back home and it affected my walk to the point my hip was starting to hurt badly. when I looked at it covered the whole heel. was an unpleasant experience, luckily for me I’m pretty good at daydreaming and that helped kept my mind off it.
The Vietnam highland scenes were filmed at Ft Hunter Ligget, a bunch of extras are PSYOP guys who had just finished their AT there. One of the helicopter pilots was one of my guys from 361st PSYOP.
Great take guys an thank you for your service when this took place was early vietnam they didn't have mole skin then and then Hal Moore gave technical advice on this I went In 1981 11m and infantry scout again thank you for your service way above my grade God bless
Love this movie, the amazing story behind it, and y’all’s reaction. Also, if you liked The Ranch, I’d recommend tracking down Titus, the sitcom Christopher Titus did on Fox many a year ago. Stacy Keach plays a very similar dad.
31:45 We were taught to close or cover one eye. It helped. But you still don't want to look either directly at it, or even nearby the actual flare. That sh't is pretty bright.
41:18 not enough props is given to Tactical Air Controller Parties I feel, especially in these olden days where your TACP air space control systems were radios, maps, and whatever the forces on the ground could demarkate themselves with. There are a thousand and one variables at play just queuing up aircraft, and every single one is always changing as the situation develops.
It took everything I had not to punch my monitor when you guys couldn't remember Col Hal Moore's name! When I entered the Army in 84, we had No Bang, Semi, and Full. Sometime in 87 after I got to Bragg, we got the M16A2's with the round hand guards, remodeled forward assist, and the BIG change was No Bang, Semi Auto, and 3 Round burst. It was said that the rate of fire with 3 round burst was still comparable to full auto. IDK if that's true, never fired my weapon in DS/DS, not even for the CIB (13F2P Forward Observer).
33:58 I think that is exactly why they did that later on... they had 'scouts' out in the woods, in positions the rest of the troop knew about (to keep friendly fire to a minimum as much as possible), purely to make the enemy 'turn' and face different directions all at once.
During the Vietnam war we were trained to fire 3 round burst when on full auto which worked great in the bush as long as you maintained fire discipline. But mainly we fired in semi-auto mode.
Extensively traveled throughout Vietnam a bunch of years ago. Studied the war a bunch in school prior. Coincidentally enough whole on a very boring detail after SOPC I my buddy was just finishing the Tunnels of Cu Chi book. Fascinating. Went to numerous war related sites while in country. Visited and crawled/walked through both the Cu Chi “fighting tunnels” and the Vinh Moc “shelter tunnels”. Very different purposes. Very different design and construction. Equally impressive. Really says something about the fighting spirit of the Vietnamese people, but experiencing it just for a moment only confirmed all of the stories, books, movies, etc. Wasn’t a big fan of the tunnel guide. It was pouring, wet and muddy red clay. I didn’t care. Nothing I didn’t experience in basic let alone the start of my failed attempt through the pipeline and beyond. Everyone else on the tour bailed on side tunnels. I wanted to go the whole tunnel. He turned to me as I’m in full duck squat and said “many Americans die in this tunnel, good luck.” Flashes the light down a 100m pitch black tunnel. I thought to myself, “what’s dick.” I’m off quickly going into a low crawl. Almost got stuck and had to drag my day pack behind me. Not claustrophobic, but for a moment the fear monkey was tapping on my shoulder. All I could think about was the circumstances by which the statement the guide said before unfolded. Simply crawling alone in the dark was challenging enough. Toss in the poisonous snakes, insects, booby traps, battle hardened soldiers and anything else a very creative and resourceful enemy could imagine and it’s amazing anyone ever came out alive. Less than a football field later I saw the light and crawled my way out covered in clay and mud. Then there was a senior citizen giving a lecture on his experiences as a teenager living and fighting in the tunnels. Sat there wet and dirty listening for a half an hour. 🤯
Had a drill sergeant in basic training overhear someone say they've never seen this movie. That night, he took us into the classroom to do "land nav training." Instead, he said it is truly unamerican to have not seen this movie, so he played the movie for the entire company.
That's gold. lol
That’s a good ass drill and solid NCO
@@shawnthomasbrown3867 he won drill Sgt of the cycle. He wasn’t my platoons, but was universally respected by the entire company. He cared more about creating good soldiers than he did acting like a psychopath. Carried more weight that way imo.
@@TheBourbonWrench sounds like he was the type to earn it.
Must have been Army basic. No such luxury in the Corps.
True fact: Rick Rescorla served as a lieutenant in this battle. He went on to become a security expert working for a very large banking firm. He was in one of the towers on 9/11. He was responsible for evacuating over two thousand people from the firm he worked for. But he knew that there were more people from the other tenants who needed to be rescued. He went back in, but never came out. RIP to that bad ass.
That’s an incredible story. God bless the veterans who continue to serve in various capacities, whatever the need, in and out of the military. And everyone who finds a way to be useful and beneficial to others in spite of all the forces driving us toward selfish, stingy lives. It’s a fight til the day you die.
Knew about him but not that he was in Ia Drang. Very brave man.
Sacrificing your life to save others is admirable. Saving 2700 people? I don't have the words to express something that heroic.
@@jimreilly917 he was on the cover for the book when it first came out
We also was a MACV SOG operator with 5th SFG with I believe CCN.
Sgt Major Plumlee was a real badass. Not only did he participate in this battle, he was in the 82nd previously and jumped into Normandy and in Market Garden. Guy was legit.
He made all four 82nd jumps. Sicily, Salerno, Normandy, and Holland . My father was with the Canadian 1st Inf Div. They had to recover the bodies of the paratroopers they accidentally dropped into the mountains at Salerno.
You KNOW he made an impression on Sam Elliot. He showed up to his funeral.
I thought I remembered hearing/reading about Plumley and claims of stolen valour? If I recall correctly some of his claims of combat exploits and awards were proven to be lies or extensively embellished. He wore many awards to which he was not entitled and an extensive review of his service records raised many questions and doubts.
I believe the US Army even began an investigation after information was brought to light and that they themselves confirmed the discrepancies
I was a Grunt. Never saw combat. Was in 1989-2004. It just never happened. However I was 7ID from 89-92 and my senior NCO's were all from the 173rd in Vietnam. My platoon Sergeant said you want to get so low your buttons get in the way...then return fire with well aimed shots. They were a treasure trove of field craft and experience. I listened.
I worked with a man who was a LRRP with the 173. Had the privilege of speaking at his funeral. He made sure to live a full life.
Ranger Bat then the OPFOR at Ft Polk before 9.11. Maintaining the Ranger Standard while conducting non stop guerilla type operations as a singleton or as part of a company sized operation was extremely challenging. Look up the history of the 509 and see how it is related to both Ranger and SF units. Seeing individuals wearing a black beret perched on their head like a chef's hat and with a uniform that looks like you slept in it still offends my sensibilities.
There's a song called 8th of November, about the 173rd
Also can I just say, Joe Galloway was a fucking badass. He actually earned a Bronze Star during this engagement. Also.....he actually picked up a rifle and used it.
"I'm a non-combatant"
"Ain't no such thing today"
Dude mad respect for that guy. Especially because he wanted to report the truth and face whatever dangers he didn't understand.
@@benn454 "Can't take no pictures from down there, sonny!"
And when he didn't flinch at the explosions the next day while the rest of the press corps hit the deck. Whole life changed overnight.
Opie
I was friends/ worked with a Vietnam Vet that served as a huey door gunner, he told me this movie was the only one to ever get close to portraying Vietnam, especially Huey calvery and Huey gunships based on his experiences... I was honestly shocked that he watched it when it came out, he didn't really talk about his time in Vietnam to anyone except a couple of other local vets that I talked with after he passed, and for some reason me as a teenager. I guess maybe because I surprised him by knowlege and interest in military history at a young age, or maybe I reminded him of someone he knew... He never told these stories to his own kids, or even my dad, one of his closest friends for decades, which is how I knew he was ever in Vietnam before Jack told me a few stories at seemingly random times when we were alone at work (my summer job)... One was about how his best friend over there was killed by a 12-14 year old boy while on R&R 😐 He passed away several years ago from multiple cancers that absolutely ate him up. It turned out to be from agent orange dispersion flights around their helo base and from helicopters he was on doing deforestation runs... It was already too late for treatment by the time he was diagnosed, and he had obviously dealt with the pain for years before seeking answers, but he still hung on as long as he could... RIP Jack. This movie will always remind me of him 👍
I was one of the FX guys on this show and had the pleasure of meeting col. Hal Moore of which Mel character is based on.He was the on set consultant and Mel listened to him. I was on second unit which is the action unit my most recognizable contribution is the Napalm strike.
thank you for the hard work.
I had an uncle who piloted a Huey medivac in Vietnam. Apparently, when he came home, he didn't say a word for weeks, was skin and bones, and the only thing he ever said was he'd retire before he ever had to go back into the service. The nicest, humblest man you could ever meet.
Saw this in the theater alongside a large group of Vietnam veterans on opening day, I've never seen so many men with tears in their eyes in my life. Moving experience for sure.
I went to the Infantry Officer Advance Course in 1989 and they had a full day seminar with LTG Moore and about 20 of the surviving NCOs and officers from this, including Ernie Savage. Truly amazing to spend time with these great soldiers. Hardest part of this movie is the notifications to the wives. Heartbreaking.
Same thing when I went through IOAC in 1998. I believe Ernie Savage worked at Building 4 at the time.
Same in 1990 when I went through
Totally agree. The notification scenes were a gutpunch for me.
The PTSD warning was very nice. People need to be reminded of the effects of combat. To most of us it’s only in the movies and need to be aware of it.
One of the most haunting things I’ve ever heard is from Joe Galloway in reference to Jimmy Nakayama. “That Boy is my Nightmare”, sometimes there is just no warning for PTSD.
The reason you hear the comments about Custer was due to the fact that before this war before they went to Vietnam they were re-activated as the seventh cavalry which was Custer's unit
Can’t imagine the Veterans came back from Vietnam would have suffered when the trees can trigger PTSD, mad respect to all veterans.
Imagine how they felt when the "refugees" that got imported were put up in his towns only hotel for the rest of their lives.
My family watched their status as some of their California towns first founders fall into confusion as other cultures overwhelmed the townspeople and bought up property with welfare money. My family members killed to protect that town but the government imported the enemy every damn time in every conflict after WWII, so my German family that served America in WWI fighting their brothers were truly betrayed. Obviously they didn't serve in WWII after seeing what "the good guys" did.
What about me I get PTSD when I play cod, battlefield,medal of honor, counter strike.
@@spacecowboy1438 huh? Imported which enemy lmaooo
@@spacecowboy1438 what are you on about? The US did not 'imported the enemy' from every conflict after WWII. Germans, italians, and japanese immigrants were already in the US before any world wars. Grenada? Panama? Iraq? Afghanistan? There aren't massive swaths of refugees from those countries in the US. Only 'imported enemy' would be the nazi scientist brought over to work for the American government.
My dad is not someone who goes to see movies often but when this came out he wanted to go. He said it took all he had to not get up and walk out because the movie did such a good job showing exactly how it was in Vietnam. He told me a few people his age did get up and leave at times.
Like many he doesn't talk about Vietnam beyond his first impression of what he was going into was the jungle on fire at the base he was landing at. So I thank every soldier who goes out and does what most can't/won't do.
That scene where the RTO calls out broken arrow on the radio gives me the chills.
Go outside
There are several points in history when you can only imagine what it was like for these warfighters in those situations.
I late Marine, Chosen vet, related how everything went sideways when his unit received a mass retreat for all UN forces. He said in reality it was a rout, mass chaos, fire and snow everywhere. He said all you could do was get back to the coast because nothing was going to stop the 300,000 Chinese regulars that had flooded over the N Korean border.
@@dmoney8602 the irony in this reply..
In the Navy Broken Arrow means some just dropped nuke on the deck or one is about to go off, time to just have a smoke and relax.
@@dmoney8602 speak for yourself
Col Moore is a GOAT in league with Maj Dick Winters. He studied the Indochina French War, studied books and spoke with French vets, then learned everything he could about helos and vertical envelopment.
First time I met the green berets was when I was a young marine in a convoy preparing to ambush an army unit . It was a night op and We saw a flare pop. We all looked at it like it was so pretty. Then all hell broke loose . No one in the convoy survived . 5 green Berets took out 6 squads of tank killers . After the maneuver we learn what special operators can do . I was 18 and fascinated how easy you can die .
Years ago when this movie first came out on DVD set down the watch this my dad who was a Vietnam vet. He made it part way through it and said he couldn't watch it anymore he said it brought back too many memories.
My dad always makes fun of military movies, but this one and Forest Gump he says are the closest to the reality he remembers from his enlistment in air cav in 1968. He had me kind of later in life, so I didn’t get to talk to him as much about it as I wish I had, but then he never wanted his daughters to know much about the ugly parts anyway. Im glad you watched this one on here. Thank you.
15:20 fresh sock and powder was the best they could do back in the day. Mole skin wasn’t invented in 1967. When I was a LRRP we used to wear ladies nylons to prevent blisters. It sounds weird now but it was all we had back then.
I didn't know that about mole skin. I do remember hearing about the nylons though and thought that was weird, but whatever works.
This is one of Mel Gibson’s greatest movies. Easily one of the best War films ever made in my own personal opinion anyway. I love this film because it is so violent and realistic. lol
No one cares
I don't know man, Payback was pretty good.
I think Mel Gibson produced Hacksaw Ridge as well.
Thanks!
thank you!
I was in a Unit call ANGLICO for 8 years, and we did nothing but CFF and CAS. Thank you for explaining the JTAC roles, I feel like people don't understand the difficulty of controlling aircraft and moving mortar tgt locations while trying to fight the enemy and move with the team. Mad Respect guys, keep up the good work.
truly an art
Jump Q?
@@shabut I wasn't but some of the guys in my unit were
Just discovered your channel - have never found a more intelligent, informative and balanced commentary - I look forward to seeing all the rest!!! Cheers from Ireland!
I’m forth generation 1st CAV (INF). Well done! It’s a unit and combat patch I wore with true pride. Thank you for showing such respect to this movie, this historical battle and the men fought in it.
My grandfather was MACV SOG on fob 4. He actually arrived a few weeks later to the company this movie was made about, and they had very little numbers. He helped put the body of the guy he replaced on the helicopter. Lifespan for scout platoon leaders was pretty low. We didn't know what group he was with until he passed, and found his team coin.
Love the interviews with the SOG guys that multiple podcasts have done. Those guys were cowboys and absolute beasts. Plus their sense of humor is great.
General Moore stayed true to his promise. No man under his command ever became MIA. Moore fought for years to get Bruce "Snakeshit" Crandall and Ed "Too Tall" Freeman the Medal of Honor. Crandell to his credit, insisted that his name be withdrawn from consideration, until Freeman received his. Their medal citations are a testament to their genuine badassery. Joe Galloway received the only civilian Bronze Star with V awarded during the entire Vietnam War, for his actions in the Ia Drang.
One of the best things that they showed during this movie are small little scenes about the tactics and situations they were facing. In the early beginning there's a scene where they joke about the French army being a joke but later Moore is reading a book about the French war in Vietnam and he was breaking down every mistake the French made and what the result was. Another is before they fly into the battle they discuss how the enemy hit another unit or outpost inflicted no casualties and then retreated to the mountains and he just felt it was an ambush and with how big the landing zone was and how far away it was he would not have full strength for hours. It highlighted alot of the mistakes that where made especially the belief of superiority. The North Vietnamese effectiveness with their tunnels is almost identical to how the Japanese used their tunnels and bunkers against the US on Iwo Jima and Okinawa and those were two of the hardest battles in the Pacific during WW2
the Ranch is one of the best series I've ever seen! I've rewatched it at least 10 times if not more!
The Ranch was a solid ass show.
Also, I’m not military nor do I have family in the military but I love these videos because you guys really help me understand what’s actually going on in military/war movies (which are my favorite to watch). So, thank you guys and thank you for your service
Blachawk Down and We were Soldiers came out in the movies a few weeks apart in late 2001 or early 2002 I think. I watched both movies and I was sold in joining the Army. I enlisted a few months afterwards and in July of 02 I was in Ft Benning GA for Basic training. I enlisted as an 11X-Ray and I ended up becoming an 11 Charlie. Fun fact...while I was in 30th AG, Pat Tillman was there processing. I think he got there a couple of weeks ahead of my group.
This movie means alot to me. Thanks for reviewing this one guys
For blisters I used to use a hypodermic needle to drain the pus and I would attempt to keep the needle in place and refill the cavity with neosporin. This way the blister was still full of a liquid but it was healing at a faster speed and providing a small level of physical pain resistance. I would apply superglue over the hole and do a couple layers and make it a hard cap. If anything was going to burst open it would be a different part of the skin, make it solid. Something I learned from a paramedic who liked hiking
One of my high school classmates dad was a medic during this battle and was awarded a bronze star for his actions.
"We Were Soldiers Once, and Young" by reporter Joe Galloway and LTG Hal Moore was required reading at IOBC 2/11 Inf back in the day. Excellent read, lessons to keep you and your men alive.
The book the movie is based on is absolutely astounding. Covers the events of the battle and events going on around it in much greater detail. Written by the Colonel and the reporter. Well worth the read.
It sure is, and it relates the entire Ia Drang engagement as it was, which was about three times as involved as what the film portrays, what with two other (major) landing zones, casualties, and eventual withdrawal.
My dad was in the 1/9th 1st Cav in 68/69 in Vietnam. He told me of all Vietnam war movies he’d watched, this one was the most accurate to his experiences in Vietnam.
I'm sure I'm not the first to say but the book Colonel Moore and Joe Galloway wrote about the battle is very good cause it also explains the nastier fight a few miles away where an American unit got literally cut apart. Ia Drang was a hell of a place
That was 2-7 Cav at LZ Romeo. They were decimated the day after 1-7 Cav left LZ Xray.
I thought 2/7 Cavalry was decimated at LZ Albany
The Vietnam scenes were filmed on Fort Hunter Liggett in Central CA. While on deployment in 03-04 we worked with technicians on Camp Roberts that were extras in this movie.
Another great one. Thank you Gentlemen. The book is amazing. What they had too do after this battle was even more unbelievable.
Big props to Buck talking about war and the enemies perspective at roughly 6:30. Kurt as well. That might be the first time I’ve heard a member of the US military, in interviews podcasts or when meeting in person, talk like that. I think you guys have far more combat experience than any soldiers I’ve met or heard discuss that subject…..I think your perspectives on the “good vs evil” narrative and having a good amount of combat experience is related.
The people who don't understand this dynamic are the ones who demanded that statues of Confederate Generals be pulled down. They are the ones who continually call Confederate Soldiers "traitors", and saying that they were only "defending slavery".
I'm a boy from Minnesota, so my loyalty was always with the North. But while I studied the Civil War (back when I was in 7th through 10th grades) I became an admirer of the men who fought for the South. There were amazingly brave, courageous, and self-sacrificing men on both sides of that horrible conflict; and ALL of them were Americans.
I was a Supply Administration Specialist in the Marines, and served in peacetime, so I have no combat experience; but I do know that a true warrior doesn't hate his enemy; a true warrior RESPECTS his enemy, and doesn't take that enemy lightly.
As a cavalryman this movie, and the unit involved holds a special place in my heart always, especially since 2nd infantry division was my unit. As far as rucking pain is concerned, on the 12 miler at the end of cav osut I had hip pain and shoulder pain, but the eyelets for laces on my boots digging into my shin was one of the worst pains ever, nearly made me quit that ruck.
" what are you, the weatherman now?" best line in the movie.
Disagree. The best line of the movie is, "If any of you sons of bitches calls me 'grandpa', I'll kill you."
Absolutely a huge fan of you guys addressing just how important foot care is. We all know, if we are honest with ourselves, that very few men can tough it out with a terrible blister rucking for 30 miles with 50 lbs on your back. Some may make it a few miles... but when it gets worse with every step, in combination with other aches and pains the accumulate through training I can imagine that foot trouble has been a road block for many in SFAS that prevented them from making it all the way. The best solution is preventative care - like Buck said, when you notice the blister it's basically too late already.
Try doing a 25-miler with a cracked bone in one ankle and twisting the other ankle in a washout rut. To complete Infantry School you had to finish the 25 mile hump through the "hills" of Southern California after a week out in the field doing live fire ranges and platoon-on-platoon ambushes and assaults. We'd get a 10 minute rest after every hour to sit down, change socks, powder your feet, and/or have doc apply or replace mole skin on blisters. But taking off your boots becomes a bit difficult with both ankles swelled up, almost impossible to get them back on. Luckily we had a good doc who wrapped my ankles up nice and tight with ace bandages, but it still wasn't a picnic. Other docs just put guys with similar injuries straight on the medical vehicle. Usually by mile 5 most of the weaklings had dropped out and were on the medical vehicle, and were going to get recycled and had to do the course entire course again. After mile 10-15 the only thing to stop you was a serious injury and I had both but finished. My 5'9" 100-nothing pound body outlasted taller, stronger, and more muscular guys showing its 90% mental.
The thing about the chopper pilot is he was going back and forth for days bringing home bodies with his helicopter drenched in their blood and filled with holes.. this was his way of helping those men on the ground. That's why that scene got me.
Bruce Crandall and Ed Freeman both got the MOH many years later for their actions during this battle.
Dude, your points about micro management are spot on. It kills the creativity of the team and doesn't allow for the growth of your troops. I loved utilizing the creativity and thoughts of my joes. Not that I let them run the squad but we worked so much better together when we listened to each other's ideas, good or bad. They trusted me (their squad leader) to make the best calls after going over ideas (if the time allowed it) and I trusted them to move and complete the job with a purpose. Not to mention communication was easier since we were all on the same page. I loved being a good ol' buck SGT.
My father in law has a friend that flew with Major Crandall, I asked him about the scene where he pulled his sidearm on the other pilot, he told me that he wasn't flying with him at that time, but he had heard the story and if you knew him you would believe it
I have asked him about it and he says it didn't happen how it went down in the movie, but the threat and the intent was there.
Another good review ! Sometimes you have to mention that these are "films" , not "documentaries" . I always appreciate that you lads never glorify War, never sugar coat thé absolute horror it creates. Have you watched Danger Close, about thé Australians in Vietnam ? It is definitely on a parr with We Were Soldiers.
To the tough guys listen to this video. I rucked a ton and never had terrible foot issues, but once I got to selection my feet went to shit. Buy a foot care kit because even if you've never had issues it will happen when you're not prepared for it. Also, don't be afraid to see the medics at selection for minor foot care issues.
It cost me my place , in the 82nd. I made it through Basic/AIT , Jump School, and on to the 82nd. After 8 months of OJT with Combat Engineers, they realized the problem was just too bad, and gave me a Medical. They offered me a desk Job, but I was ABN INF , with a secondary as 12B1P. No, a desk just wasn't going to do. AATW
I had a blister break and get infected on one of my ankles during Boot Camp. My foot swelled up, and thought they'd have to cut the damn thing off. I was on light duty for about a week, and was in danger of being set back in training before the infection went down. But it taught me that you don't ignore "small things" like blisters anywhere near or on your feet.
An army marches on its feet.
The one thing this movie does that I don't think any other movie has done is covering the impact on the wives and girls back home. As a soldier I never thought about...how my wife would be told if the worst case happened. And Hal's wife in this is a true "Household 6". I can't recall a war movie ever giving that topic any exposure. So IMHO this might be the most well rounded treatment of war and its impact ever. It is not anti-war...but not pro-war. It describes flaws in leadership but also great leadership. It brings the war home on the battlefield and at the home front. Really a classic if you think about the difficulty of covering this war. Thanks for the video!
As a combat wounded Marine veteran this movie and “Saving Private Ryan” are my favorite war movies.
Loved "The Ranch"... watched every episode!
Hal Moore, Basil L. Plumply and Joe Galloway were all behind the camera and they said the film was true to everything that happened. According to Basil L Plumply’s family Sam Elliot who played the Sgt Major underplayed him and he was as tough as they come. Kurt and Shawn you need to read the book because the next battle at LZ Albany was three times as bad as LZ X-Ray.
The only thing that was drastically altered was the end of the battle. That is if I remember the book right. Which I read 20 years ago.
There was no dramatic charge up the hill where the choppers then tore the enemy apart. If I remember correctly.. the Vietnamese simply melted away on the third day and the battle just stopped. Very anticlimactic by Hollywood standards. So they had to make a dramatic victorious ending.
When you look at a picture of SGMAG Plumbly after he retired, he actually looks like a kindly old grandpa. But when you see him when he was still serving, you'd be hard pressed to want to get near him for fear he'd bite your head off just for fun.
I enlisted in the Army after having dropped out of college due to financial difficulties. I did return to college after having served and I earned my Bachelor of Arts in December 1992. I wanted to attend law school, but I began to develop the onset of my VA diagnosed PTSD, anxiety, and depression. I served as a United States Infantry Sergeant, and I earned my Combat Infantryman Badge for my service inside the Korean DMZ (December 1983 - December 1984). I subsequently served as a Police Sergeant, and I retired as a Federal Investigator.
The fear and anxiety can be managed, but you fool yourself into the irrational concept known as, "I must bury my emotions." But, the vivid thoughts memories will be and are triggered by the most obscure exposures to a stimulus.
Every single day of your life is filled with a direct bond to and with everyone who has experienced the futility of a firefight.
As the result of using Full Auto alot during the Vietnam War was the reasons they put 3-round burst in later M16s (before bringing back full auto but that's another story).
I love this beers and break down. I remember wanting to be a machine gunner because of the the scene where he asks the gunner to get to his position in the beginning
Even though it is a naval film, I would love to see you all review and react to Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World as a treatise on combat leadership and motivating your men when the odds seem stacked against you.
Yes!!!
04:00 I think the Vietcong and NVA were still using old communist strategies like human wave attacks. They weren't as concerned about casualties. Hence the more haphazard ambush where they simply started charging.
The book is really good. I remember the battle started with LZ X-ray and ended with LZ Albany. When 1/7th sister battalion was ambushed.
1/7 and 1 co from 2/7 was at LZ X-ray .. 2/7 and 2/5 came into Lz Albany … I served with 2/7 at the time the movie came out
what took you so long , guys ? your beers and breakdowns is my favorite to watch , sometime i just replay old episodes
As important as the "win" was for the guys, for the validation of the concept of the air mobile/air cav doctrine, it was equally important if poignant that as the enemy commander recognized the bravery and skill of his adversary...he also understood the truth and stated it at the end. We thought we had "won". This "win" only extended the war because we thought we had the answer to beat the North Vietnamese. We didn't and eventually we withdrew. We forgot, as we often continue to forget, the primary lesson of Clausewitz.
Kind of. Tactically, the US was superior to the North Vietnamese in every way. Every major battle (not skirmish or fire fight) was a victory for the US armed forces with a stunning loss of life for the VC and the NVA. After the failed invasion during the Tet Offensive of 1968 the North Vietnamese commanders were ready to commit suicide fearing they had just lost the war because of the loss of life and losing all the territory they had initially gained. Somehow they got their hands on an American newspaper and changed their minds due to all the anti war rhetoric. Then they knew all they had to do was make it as bloody and costly for the Americans as they could and just wait out the American public. It was the politicians that really prevented the US from an overall victory. Operation Linebacker and Linebacker II blasted Hanoi back to the Stone Age and leveled the Ho Chi Minh trail. The North Vietnamese would cry uncle, go to the peace table only if the bombing stopped, then during the peace talks would rebuild and rearm, then launch another campaign. SecDef McNamara and his "whiz kids" were accountants at Ford and GM and treated the military as a profitable company. They had expectations for every XX bullets fired there should be XX dead bad guys. You can't fight a war with that kind of micromanaging. LTG Hal Moore said it himself in the book that when he was called to DC immediately after this battle to meet with the President, the Secretary of Defense, and the Army Chief of Staff to brief them on his encounter he said he knew this war was already lost after that meeting. LTG Moore said that the things the US military needed to do in order to win victory they all denied permission to do. LTG Moore said that the NVA all pulled back into Laos and Cambodia and that the US military needed to cross the borders and go get them and their supply hubs and the US military couldn't do that. The Marines at Khe Sanh were constantly shelled from artillery positions inside Laotian and Cambodian borders and the Marines couldn't fire back. Talk about being hand cuffed, and still under these ROEs Gen. Westmoreland still tried to fight a war of attrition. HOWEVER, not to be too harsh on the politicians they did have a big monster to worry about - any misstep they took could possibly pull communist China and/or the USSR into the conflict.
this is why i watch you guys. so knowledgeable. literally listened to you guys describe every emotion i had in my head with the whole blister situation, it was fucking spot on hahah. you guys know your shit.
The Ranch is one of the best shows in recent years. Wish they would make another season.
The talk about taking care of your feet spoke to my soul. Got heal blisters real bad in ‘03 that my DI would kick during every hygiene inspection when I was a boot. Still have the scars to this day from those damn things. Taught me a valuable lesson that I still champion to this day
@15:00 about the nerve damage in our feet. now i see why flat-footed people should avoid the infantry. I'm flat footed and served in the Marine Corps Infantry and my feet are so bad the VA has to prescribe pain killers to numb the pain just enough for me to function in everyday life. I credit my VA Docs for saving my life, but mannnn the pain is real, and can WILL stay with me for the rest of my life. Luckily, I've developed the ability to tolerate that pain just enough to function like everyone else around me.
What you said about blisters and feet pain is 100% facts! I hope modern day service members and Vets are taking your advice/words to heart. Semper Fi
25:25 is why Shawn and Kurt bring so much to the table in these videos.
Fun fact: The cool part about about Army Attack Aviation; they are treated as maneuver and they can be given guidance/requests for CAS from non-JTAC/non-JFO personnel. But it’s obviously smarter/easier to have a JTAC or FO managing those assets for you if they’re already providing coverage
As crazy as this movie was, to hear about sog groups of 6 to 10 guys going up against just as many NVA and VC. That is a movie I want to see now!
My dad still hates helicopter pilots. He says they always dropped him off where he didn't want to be and never picked him back up again.
Nice I’m glad you guys finally did this one. And one of my professors in college since he helps a lot of vets met the real Hal More 10 years ago. And to Mel Gibson a lot of credit for how he dose war movies he likes to show people what veterans actually go through and he also did it when he did hacksaw ridge to with Andrew Gardfelid 7 years ago.
Great video as always. Watch The Siege of Jadotville if you get a chance and do a reaction. Incredible story.
I grew up watching we where soldiers, saving private ryan and brave heart all on vhs and now this is easily one of my favourite youtube channels im so glad i found it
The only BS part of this movie was them charging up the hill, it didn't happen. What happened was the NVA pulled back allowing Moore's battalion to be pulled out and the rest to walk out to the second part of the battle at LZ Albany. Sgt. Savage was a badass and took command of the remainder of the cutoff platoon until help arrived. Great movie and thank you for the knowledge of your experience to help fill in the gaps. My father got to Vietnam 2 weeks before this battle took place, he was an RTO with the 1st Infantry. Thankfully he came home, but my Great-uncle was KIA in '67 as a Major with Air Force.
I agree there was no charge up the hill. Here is my list of inaccuracies between truth and the movie.
Inaccuracies
1) The French Groupment Mobile 100 was not wiped out. They took heavy losses but formed a perimeter and held on. They were not eliminated as the movie portrayed. Nguyen Huu An was not in this fight
2) Cav patches were not worn in the fight, these uniforms were not issued until after the fight at X-Ray.
3) Hal Moore did attend Harvard but not until after he came back from Vietnam
4) Plumley did not say Herrick wanted to win medals. Moore considered promoting Herrick to lead a Recon Platoon and Plumley said “Forcefully”…”If you put Herrick in there he’ll get them all killed”
5) Plumley had no issue with Savage. Plumley was very tough and fair, but he wasn’t a dick.
6) The NVA had no underground bunkers on the Chu Pong Massif. After the fight at X-Ray when the B-52’s were sent in there was nowhere to hide. Colonel An just watched the bombing runs, counting them. He said they got close enough to make him deaf in one ear for a week but not close enough to kill them
7) The flashlight on Moore’s Right Breast survived the battle and did not stop a bullet
8) When the men in the First Cav left for Vietnam all of their families were kicked off Fort Benning.
Most went to live in Trailer parks or stayed with family. But they did not reside near each other on base. Julia Moore saw Jack Gell’s funeral on the news and flipped out insisting she be informed of any casualty thereafter and would follow the vehicle sent by the Army to wherever the family lived
9) Hal Moore already knew Joe Galloway and so did Plumley.
10) Jos Galloway carried his own weapons; he did not need to be given an M-16 by Plumley.
11) Charlie Beckwith had given Galloway an M-16 a month prior at the Siege of Plei Me
12) The actions of Jack Geoghegan prior to his death were the real actions of Walter Joe Marm eliminating a machine gun nest for which he got shot up and was awarded the Medal of Honor.
Geoghegan was shot while helping the injured Godbolt in real life and in movie.
13) Barbara Geoghegan moved to Connecticut to be near Jack’s parents. When news of his death reached Jack’s parents Barbara was visiting Jacks elderly aunt whose husband passed 2 years prior. She was not living on Millers Loop at Fort Benning.
14) Julia Moore accompanied the Army Chaplain for the families of 1/7 who all lived off base. Robert McDade was not married and the job fell to the Executive officer and Sergeant Major’s wives for the 2md of 7th.
15) There was no final charge and thus no direct support from Huey’s as Mel Gibson comes face to face with enemy lines. This never happened The enemy simply retreated from the Battlefield
16) The Huey’s had no fixed guns in 1965. Crandall and Freeman were awarded the MOH based on their 20+ flights into enemy fire with no fixed weapon system. They had door gunners.
17) The French Bugle was recovered by Rick Rescorla not Clyde Savage and it was recovered by Rescorla at LZ Albany not LZ X-Ray.
18) The NVA did not leave the Massif. Most of them were regrouping in the forest/ jungle below while other units were moving toward the LZ in support
19) Weapon and Uniform issues too numerous to mention.
20) There were not enough M-16’s of the original version available for the movie. So, a later version is used
21) Improper awards worn by men who could not have earned them prior.
22) Improperly worn insignia
23) (if I remember correctly) Moore didn't meet Crandall until the battle.
@@jenniferlenfestey5335 Moore and Crandall knew each other prior to the battle. They worked for months with the 11th Air Assault Division (Test) They practiced the concepts of Air Mobility together.
So many good quotes and teaching points. Semper fi gents!
Amazing movie!
Please some day do Band of Brithers. Maybe a miniseries where you take a couple of episodes at a time 😊
I think the Bastogne ark and maybe the last patrol would be the best to look at. Also the training...and the D-Day, snd everything else. Nevermind.
31:14 Fun fact, we also have IR Illumination rounds for use with night vision. I only used them with our mortars, but IR Illumination can be used with arty and I think even 40mm grenade launchers. I've never seen the 40mm in use though.
Also, it's a lot more than a few seconds to know if you're off. Probably more like 30-40 seconds.
Mortar missions at night are so much more challenging, especially on FDC (fire direction control). You're calculating multiple guns at the same time. One gun will be running illumination, which has to have been fired and adjusted in not only the correct grid, but in elevation too. Also taking into effect when the illumination round is expected to illuminate and last.
To fire on a target with mortars, you have to be able to see the target, so you are timing illumination to show the target and impact with HE after that to help FOs give adjustments.
That's what makes firing on known points so much easier/faster. You can tell your gun line to fire on information they already have written down at their own gun. You give them the ability to fire without a lot of information. Illume gun knows the deflection, elevation, and timing to fire rounds. A good gun grew will have a "stair-step" look in the sky where your illumination is going out as the next round begins to pop in the sky.
Awesome breakdown guys!!
In 1978 I was working with a guy that was in this battle as his baptism of fire in Vietnam. while he went out on other patrols he was never as scared as he was during this battle.
Thank you for your service gentlemen.
18:06 You're right, I almost got taken out by a blister during a Disneyland campaign. Started at 10:00am and lasted through 10:00pm. I was able to ignore it through the Haunted Mansion, but it started becoming mission critical during It's a Small World...barely made it through Space Mounted. I almost missed the fireworks at the end of the closing parade because of the pain. It was so bad that I turned down a Dole Whip.
Fellas I appreciate your perspective. Thanks for doing this.
The last time I had a blister (not that long ago) I had walked to the town next to mine and was on my way back home and it affected my walk to the point my hip was starting to hurt badly. when I looked at it covered the whole heel. was an unpleasant experience, luckily for me I’m pretty good at daydreaming and that helped kept my mind off it.
The Vietnam highland scenes were filmed at Ft Hunter Ligget, a bunch of extras are PSYOP guys who had just finished their AT there. One of the helicopter pilots was one of my guys from 361st PSYOP.
Hal Moore. I remember telling my grandfather about this movie (CSM Dunn). He said, "oh, a movie about Hal. He was a good officer."
Great take guys an thank you for your service when this took place was early vietnam they didn't have mole skin then and then Hal Moore gave technical advice on this I went In 1981 11m and infantry scout again thank you for your service way above my grade God bless
Love this movie, the amazing story behind it, and y’all’s reaction. Also, if you liked The Ranch, I’d recommend tracking down Titus, the sitcom Christopher Titus did on Fox many a year ago. Stacy Keach plays a very similar dad.
31:45 We were taught to close or cover one eye. It helped. But you still don't want to look either directly at it, or even nearby the actual flare. That sh't is pretty bright.
41:18 not enough props is given to Tactical Air Controller Parties I feel, especially in these olden days where your TACP air space control systems were radios, maps, and whatever the forces on the ground could demarkate themselves with. There are a thousand and one variables at play just queuing up aircraft, and every single one is always changing as the situation develops.
When I was in Cav, I got to meet Joey Galloway and Gen. Moore before we deployed. It was one of the coolest experiences ever.
It took everything I had not to punch my monitor when you guys couldn't remember Col Hal Moore's name!
When I entered the Army in 84, we had No Bang, Semi, and Full. Sometime in 87 after I got to Bragg, we got the M16A2's with the round hand guards, remodeled forward assist, and the BIG change was No Bang, Semi Auto, and 3 Round burst. It was said that the rate of fire with 3 round burst was still comparable to full auto. IDK if that's true, never fired my weapon in DS/DS, not even for the CIB (13F2P Forward Observer).
@8:30 he's also the narrator in The Big Lebowski
My favorite military movie. Great breakdown guys.
My dad who was in Vietnam during Tet called this "recon by fire"
You guys break it down so good 🔥🔥
4:44 Yessirs.
Also, I'm wondering if that's just a director's idea of how to show the dedication and passion of the enemy.
33:58 I think that is exactly why they did that later on... they had 'scouts' out in the woods, in positions the rest of the troop knew about (to keep friendly fire to a minimum as much as possible), purely to make the enemy 'turn' and face different directions all at once.
During the Vietnam war we were trained to fire 3 round burst when on full auto which worked great in the bush as long as you maintained fire discipline. But mainly we fired in semi-auto mode.
Must agree, the Ranch is amazing, love it
Extensively traveled throughout Vietnam a bunch of years ago. Studied the war a bunch in school prior. Coincidentally enough whole on a very boring detail after SOPC I my buddy was just finishing the Tunnels of Cu Chi book. Fascinating. Went to numerous war related sites while in country. Visited and crawled/walked through both the Cu Chi “fighting tunnels” and the Vinh Moc “shelter tunnels”. Very different purposes. Very different design and construction. Equally impressive. Really says something about the fighting spirit of the Vietnamese people, but experiencing it just for a moment only confirmed all of the stories, books, movies, etc.
Wasn’t a big fan of the tunnel guide. It was pouring, wet and muddy red clay. I didn’t care. Nothing I didn’t experience in basic let alone the start of my failed attempt through the pipeline and beyond. Everyone else on the tour bailed on side tunnels. I wanted to go the whole tunnel. He turned to me as I’m in full duck squat and said “many Americans die in this tunnel, good luck.” Flashes the light down a 100m pitch black tunnel. I thought to myself, “what’s dick.” I’m off quickly going into a low crawl. Almost got stuck and had to drag my day pack behind me. Not claustrophobic, but for a moment the fear monkey was tapping on my shoulder. All I could think about was the circumstances by which the statement the guide said before unfolded. Simply crawling alone in the dark was challenging enough. Toss in the poisonous snakes, insects, booby traps, battle hardened soldiers and anything else a very creative and resourceful enemy could imagine and it’s amazing anyone ever came out alive. Less than a football field later I saw the light and crawled my way out covered in clay and mud. Then there was a senior citizen giving a lecture on his experiences as a teenager living and fighting in the tunnels. Sat there wet and dirty listening for a half an hour. 🤯
No good guys, no bad guys. We fought for each other. That is all that matters.