Old Mechanic Trick To Repair Threads On A 70 Year Old Tractor!
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
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My first experience with Heli-coil: the clutch bell crank (Z-bar) ball stud snapped off in the block of my old 68 camaro that Matt drove to HS. Repaired it with Heli-coil, and has held perfectly ever since (Mark put that same motor in his 70 chevelle a few years later....Still holding). Thanks for the great (seriously) tutorial so I can see all the things I've done/still do wrong! LOL.
Hey Dr Lee.
Hope all is well with you and yours ❤️
@@ISXCUMMINS565 We're all good brother! How are you guys doing?
in many cases, you can simply drill a new hole a half-inch away from the old hole and tap it out then drill a matching hole in the bell housing or object you are bolting together ....did this with the EGR valve on my old 1997 ford f150 4.6l as both of the bolts were frozen in the Aluminum and broke off as they had been together for 20 years of extreme heat and then cold with motor exhaust .....so on the new EGR valve, I cut the flang making it open from the hole to the outside like a slot and simply drilled a new hole in the intake next to the broken bolt allowing me to use a nut and bolt to mount the new EGR valve. many ways to fix broken bolts stripped threads and I find the beast is just making a new mounting hole and flang hole to accommodate the new bolt location is much stronger and can even add 2 new bolt locations one on each side of the damaged mounting location for even stronger than before mount....just my 2c
amazing explonation ,thanks a lot for this video
I never heard of Time-Serts before this, so it prompted me to look them up. Expensive! Seems like they priced the kits based upon the value of the repair and the urgency of the need to get it repaired.
I use silver HVAC tape to make the surface I'm drilling a mirror so I can see if i'n square to the surface. Cheap and easy.
That's a great idea sir!!
I don't know how well it works but it has all the hallmarks of a darn fine method. The shinier the better obviously and I had some that was dull in its shine and would be a fuzzy reflection. It will surely show any slight misalignment though . I got it stuck into my ideas file for future reference , thank you. A great idea.
Love your videos always good time God Bless have great day
Glad to see all is going well!!
OLDER mechanic ( before helicoil ) tap for the next size bolt! “Green” Loctite is for threads already occupied. Blue for applications where you are pretty sure you will remove the bolt. Red is when you will be willing to heat and beat to remove.
Full strength of a threaded junction occurs when there is a full 1 1/2 revolutions intact.
yeah his definition of old is 30. my first thought on this block was just longer bolt and a nut. or braze it, drill it and tap it the same size. helicoil or insert is not a fix.
Try the right size bolt 7/16-14. He to young to know about 7/16
@@thomasme9676 Maybe its crappy bolts from China.
Actuly if its cast iron u can cut tap out with ox acet torch
good tips.
Good info!
Kinda interesting fact about LocTite. When I was in the military our supply guy ordered more red LocTite than we were supposed to have. He noticed the bottles were only about 2/3 full so he filled them all to the top, reducing the number of bottles on the shelf. Clever hu? Nope, the liquid set up in the bottles, hard as a rock! Turns out LocTite (red anyway) sets in ABSENCE of air. Another example of your tax dollars at work 😉
Hello from Virginia
I agree Time-serts are light years better. The company is based in Reno Nevada.
The question, though, is whether or not the cops want you to know about it!
THIS ONE WEIRD TRICK
Very often on a job like that you can just drill and tap for the next size up bolt. Cheaper than heli coil and mostly stronger. If you don't have the room for a bigger bolt head use cap screws.
I only use genuine Heli-coil, not copies and have never had a problem. Also, if the thread location is difficult I make up my own jig from 1/2" of thicker material, usually a piece of square or flat stock. On a drill press or similar I drill 2 holes of the correct size, I leave the first one and tap the second with the Heli-coil tap. Returning to the hole to be Heli-coiled, I use the plain hole as a drill jig to ensure it is square. I then insert the tap into the second hole until it starts to protrude. I use this as a tap guide. I know that where the bolt hole in question is a big part of this, and it may not always be possible but I have found it works for me. I never Loctite Heli-coils but I know plenty of guys who do. Lastly, Walton sell "tap extractors" which can remove roughly 50% of broken taps, the best idea is to try not to break them in the first place, one turn forward and 1/2 a turn back.
As you instructed take the time do a helicoil right and it works just fine...✌
Awesome tips mr Cox! Thanks. Working with small engines helicoils are a life saver
I like to use McMaster-Carr for inserts, great selection...
She gonna purrrr like a kitten!
Is money/availability specifically the reason you went with Heli-Coil over the Time-Sert? These days, there are suppliers selling them by the each/pair/ten, and there are a few USA makers of suitable taps for very good prices. My personal favorite, after trying everything from junky bargain brands to name-brand Time-Sert taps, is an outfit out of Florida called Suncoast Precision. They make a whole spread of DTI taps and the price is excellent.
The last Time-Sert I had to install was a size I didn't have handy, and the tap went for about $22 on ebay. Similarly, the supplier selling the inserts charged me something like $20.50 for ten M10x1.25x25mm inserts, shipped.
Hey Stephen is chucky2009 ever gonna make another channel I miss those vids
Thanks for the update!! Glad to see this is coming along!
One of my favorite way was to repair bad bolt holes with bad threads was to tapping out to a couple sizes bigger fine thread lock with green loctite and redrill the hole to the side you need
It’s the wrong size bolt. The holes are 7/16.
Glad someone saw what I did
You should use some kind of tapping fluid. It makes cutting the threads easier. The chips can stick to the tap instead of the new cut threads. The threads will look and feel better. You will almost never regret using a tapping fluid cutting threads.
Never use tapping fluid on castiron it makes it gummy sticks to the tap and drill bit making it easier to break
I’ve used both Helicoils and Timeserts. TimeSerts are absolutely the way to go, buy yea, hard to get and very expensive.
Can't disagree. My problem with the Timeserts and other full section inserts is that in many cases there is not enough section in the part being rethreaded to allow for proper load distribution, especially if the component cannot be mounted to a suitable machine for accurate drilling, etc. One trick with Heli-coils and their competitor inserts is to change from coarse threads to fine threads of the same nominal bolt size. This is an old school trick from the aircraft industry. Aircraft has used thread coils in brand new components where light alloy castings are working close to the safety factor. Coarse threads are preferred in cast materials, but Heli-coil will spread the load by having the larger external thread to spread the load lowering the stress pattern.
@@geoffmorgan6059
I agree with that. I used to maintain aircraft. A&P/IA.
Is that for smoking sally. Interesting.
A lot of older tractors used 7/16 diameter bolts!???
Great tip steve I have used a few helicoils over the years as long as its a good quality helicoil and you take your time and do it right they normally work.
I always would take a chisel after the Heli-Coil was in and crush the last thread so the Heli-Coil can't back out same on the other end for pass-through holes or not tap all the way through.
That was a very good tutorial on how to repair threads. Adam Savage of Mythbusters fame, showed how to make your own drill/tap guide. I liked the one you demonstrated with.
once the hole has been retaped, what's wrong with just putting another bolt in there?
Thats fine if you're just clamping stuff together with the room and nothing rides on the bolt like a pulley or something.
But only if your just clamping stuff with the room!
Great info/example. I wouldn't call it an "old mechanic trick" but yea helicoils are great! Timeserts are a little nicer. Ever use them? I apologize if you mentioned them, may have missed it in video.
I've found that needle nose pliers on the tang and pulling up towards the top of the hole break it off clean everytime for me. I don't typically have to do small holes like that so needle nose in that instance might not work. One thing you gotta watch out for when setting large helicoils, is to ensure the coil is compressed when starting it, or you run the risk of jumping threads and ruining the coil. I've ruined plenty 1-1/2 helicoils by not paying attention to how the ring on the install tool had drifted back too far.
Could probably also go to oversized bolts if you have room for them.
Enjoyed the video. Nice pointers on cleaning and waiting the proper amount of time to let the Loctite to set. Thanks bud.
Great video, advice, and techniques Stephen, thank you!
Stephen Cox you are the first person on youtube to say that about taping
I miss Chuckee’s tractor videos.
Thank you Steve. Good stuff. Be well.
awesome knowledge , thanks for sharing
BRAZING TORCH AND WATER WORKS WELL ON BROKEN TAPS PUNCH WILL BREAK IT LIKE GLASS
Hey Phillip, do you know of a video demonstrating that? Thanks 'Doc'
@@marcsheldon6512 NO VIDEO THAT I KNOW JUST THE WAY I REMOVED A LOT OF THEM IN MY MILLWRIGHT DAYS . TAPS ARE HARD AND BRITTLE.SMALL BRAZING TIP CONCENTRATING HEAT ON TAP TO GET REALLY HOT PUT WATER ON IT MAKES IT EVEN MORE BRIITTLE SO IT WILL BREAK UP WHEN HIT WITH A PUNCH
@@philliprowell6588 this is a great comment
My UA-cam Algorithm has left you & Jason out in the Matrix somewhere... I’m so glad to be back in loop!!! Thanks again for all you do! (Both of you) So I’m getting old and Forgetful I guess... and that was a great refresher for me... I’ve used Helicoils for at least three and a half Decades, hard to believe how long they have been around. I remember the first time I had to use one!
At the time I was wrenching out of my driveway, neighbors 1986 Ford Escort had problems with the Left front brake caliper coming loose. The top of two holes had been cross threaded before and the last shop that worked on it had tried JB Weld in the hole... well you can guess what a 17 year old seeing shoddy work, who just got my ASE certificates was thought of... needless to say Returning from Active Duty 4 years later I got to do the Brakes again, and the valve cover, a few other things... do good work today and business is going to come tomorrow!!!
Thanks again guys!!!
I've done a few of these in aluminum components for marine engines. For drilling straight, one trick I've come up with (while laying next to the engine down in the belly of the boat) is to run the drill at slow speed as I get the bit aligned. The bit will kind of then want to align with the hole, centered and straight, and then I check from multiple angles that it looks like it's going in perfectly before proceeding. I might even back it out after getting JUST barely into the hole and go back in as normal and drill at a higher speed all the way through (or not, as it may be a blind hole).
Again, as you say, you're working with a handheld drill and not a drill press or any kind of fine-tuned apparatus, so it makes it more difficult to be perfect, but this method has worked for me and I am sure the material being aluminum has something to do with it, but I bet if you worked with something harder and made very slight contact with your bit, you could use the same method for steel or cast iron.
Flexplate dust cover should be 1/4 20 but previous owner just put in a couple larger sheet metal screw which worked themselves out. Never used a helicoil. Will the 1/4 20 size helicoil work, do I need to tap?
Have no idea??
Thanks
Am I the only shadetree thinking the bolt size is incorrect, or the solution would be to chase the threads(should always be done on rebuilds) and a washer even a custom halfmoon washer and nut even if I gotta dremmel a /32 outa the block face to set the nut into?
If the Cast Iron has wallered out previously IMHO why allow it to occur again? That thin flange with old Cast is the problem, and a helicoil will not help that.
You can use 3 2 1 blocks too. They need to make a tool with a recess for greaseable bolt production.
Steven you the Man not trying to Lightening yer Thunder Brother, just a thought....Love yer vids man glad to see that Green goin again man, Gods werk
If it’s green and it’s the Elmer’s glue type of material then it’s not Loctite Steve. It’s just a generic thread locker.
Too many people use the brand names like Q-Tip and Kleenex as general names for cotton swabs and facial tissues (snot rags). Loctite is no different. It’s just the most common thread locker.
Something I found out was using a drill bushing, socket, or short piece of pipe to help drill straight and also to help tap the hole. I had to repair 3300 blocks, heads, timing covers for over 30 years.
My first use of Helicoils was in 1980 on a head bolt for a Chevy 307 engine, held the torque and never failed. I can't remember if I used any type of sealer on it but it was in an auto mechanic training school so I'm sure it was right at the time. 😎 Don't think I've ever used one since.
If there isn't much meat around the hole I use the Heli-Coil but if there is plenty of meat I like to use the E-Z Lok, inserts from McMaster Carr. The E-Z Lok
takes up more space in the hole than the Heli-Coil but I think they are stronger. I've found that if you heat the green loctite to around 350 degrees it will let go easily but
Red Loctite does not seem to ever let go no matter how you heat it. The trick with Loctite to get it loose is to not overheat it. At work we've actually started installing a gear on a air motor shaft with only green Loctite.
If you break a tap off in a customer's part then that is on you. The customer is not responsible for your mistakes. That would be fraud
lol...I just go then next size up, and you have SAE, or Metric to choose from. If you have Wentworth, even better.
Do you have a video of electric power tools in the service truck and how you keep them organized and how to keep the batteries charged on the go? As well as batteries for rechargeable flashlights, ect. I am a relatively new field mechanic and I have not quite gotten that aspect down yet. If the vid has been posted I can’t seem to find it haha. Thanks for any input. Absolutely love your videos by the way
I use helicoils all the time, definitely my go-to for stripped holes including blown out triton spark plug holes and never had an issue. If Its a fairly long hole I’ve even put two in back to back without an issue. As far as the tang goes I like to take a long set of needle nose pliers to grab it and then yank it UP real fast instead of pushing down on it. I tried non name brand time-Serts once on a stripped head bolt hole and it actually fractured when I went to do the final torque on it, just too brittle. Maybe the name brand ones are better but that pretty much ruined it for me because I ended up having to drill and tap it to the next size up, then had to drill the head so the larger bolt could pass through.
I broke a tap once and had good luck removing the stuck portion using a cutting torch, it was a through hole and I might have just been really lucky but the tap heated up more quickly the the metal I was tapping and I just gave it one squirt of the O2 and the tap was gone
Aren't the bolts on that Ford 7/16 - 16 threads per inch? The fact that there were still threads in the hole after you drilled it suggests that they were. Helicoil inserts are supposed to be installed one thread deep in the hole and the thread staked to prevent the coil from backing out when the bolt is removed. The Helicoil brand kits came with a threaded tool to install the insert and the handle for that tool is designed to be used to break the tang. Screwing a bolt in to break the tang will result in the bottom thread being deformed. The cheap sets that don't have the threaded installation tool can allow the insert to be installed into the tapered part of the thread. The off brand kits have a long taper tap that leaves too much taper in blind holes. I've installed hundreds of Helicoils and the off brand coils and have only seen a few fail when the tapped thread pulls out of the hole. I've never used any type of thread locker on an insert. Helicoil brand kits often cost more because they included a quality drill, a quality tap and the proper installation tool. Retailers started selling the cheaper brands. Other brands usually don't have a drill, have a low quality tap that has to have more taper to make it harder to break when tapping the hole and a split key to turn the insert to install it. To compete with the lower priced competitors, Helicoil started eliminating the drill bit too.
your using the wrong bolt steve , those bolts are 7/16
I was thinking the same thing s/b a 7/16-14 not a 3/8-16
Yep!!!
Using the next larger bolt thread is a option. If a Heli-Coil will work the larger bolt should very well.
Another trick you should try. Only tape hole till you leave a small amount of the tapered treads at the bottom. Coils will not twist out or in deeper. Also bolt will tongue down better. From a fellow tech.
How do you deal with that nub at the end when using heli coils to fix sparkplug holes? I wouldn't let that nub fall into the piston.
My biggest 2 mistakes are 1. Not setting the collar for the correct depth, and 2. Not having the correct length coil
Discovered those Big Gator guides several years ago. They're great for drilling out broken bolts if you've got the space for the guide. Been meaning to get the tap guides but never got around to it.
I like the time serts and keen sert but you need a lot more material to be able to remove heli coils have an advantage in that respect and I have lots of success with them if properly installed
👍 spot on on the thread repair!!!
Use bolt and nut for pass thru hole. Would of been quick. Just saying.
You never put any tapping compound on the tap which also helps lubricate the cutting edge of the tap and threads being cut .
This is definitely a true story, threaded inserts are much better especially the ones with the locking pins. We have no issues getting them here but they are 5 times the cost of a heli coil.
thank god for farmers. Now if we could a bunch to run for congress. A big bunch
Cool video and hey I found out they make a activator that speeds up the drying time of loctite.
Great job. Thanks for sharing your experience.
It's a good practice to use loktite primer to improve lockup of the insert.
Keensert works very well, i think they are easier to deal with then timesert.
A lot of times you can go to the next size metric and not use an insert.
All bolts are technically springs.
i have seen different length thread inserts is it a good idea to use the longest one that will work or does it matter
Try to match the length to what was there before. That is the rule I use.
can u do more video on heavy duty truck otr thanks
Another tip. When originally drilling out the old threads, don't try to "waller it out". Just go perfectly straight in. I used helicoils every few days at my old job. Too many people would drill out the hole way too much and it causes problems when you tap it.
I never had an issue with doing helicoils, just keep it simple. I like doing them. Also, using cutting oil on the tap and like Stephen said, take your time and reverse the tap out if it gets too tough.
Why not just use a bigger bolt?
There is such a thing as a tap extractor.
A shop repaired the sparkplug holes. On my car and they forgot to use locktight. When I went to change my sparkplugs the hili coil came out with it. Lots of fun. It was one 3.4 dohc olds in the back.
You can tap it to the next size bigger
Can you purchase individual "time-serts"? Also another approach is to tap the hole out to the next largest fastener if it is possible to use with the other part being assembled and use a larger bolt.
I was wondering the same. Except for the larger sizes (spark plugs, glow plugs), the Time-Serts are about $6 ea or less. Basically, drill the hole out, counter sink it, tap it, insert the new threads.
@@danburch9989 Thanks, good to know that.🙂
I use the green loctite thread locker on my radio control vehicles. The biggest bolt they use is M5, so you don't want anything stronger or you'll snap it taking it apart.
Yeah, helicoils are good enough. We used them on nuclear warhead Nike-Hercules missiles back in the 60's
Man is Peter duke from zobie house flipping your brother y'all sound just alike. Took me a wile to realize it wasent you.
They make a tool to remove a broken tap
Just an FYI, NASA uses Helicoil all the time on aluminum parts. They trust a heli-coil more than a smaller thread.
When I was doing that work I made a set of those guides after snapping a tap or two. When I had a through hole I drilled out the thread and used the next bigger bolt. This was in the early '60s and I was a 15 yo self taught mechanic.
You're wearing the flag backwards on your jacket. Stars are to be to the left side.
Stars are typically toward the heart.
Acutally, it is not backwards. The US Flag Code requires the star field to be facing forward (in the normal direction of movement). Therefore, on the right shoulder, it appears backwards but is not. You'll also find the same arrangement on the right side of military aircraft, space shuttle and other equipment.
first time watching your channel and liked it. you didn't mention that there are 3 types of taps, there is the starting tap, the plug tsp, and the bottom tap.you need to use a starting tap first because it lines the tap up in the hole. it only has full depth threads at the back, the frontdoesnt
Where's chuckee
Stephen could a fella use J.B weld for metal to fasten that thread repair spring in place .
You're wearing the flag backwards on your jacket. Stars are to be to the left side.
Fire fighters are running to the action not away from it
Acutally, it is not backwards. The US Flag Code requires the star field to be facing forward (in the normal direction of movement). Therefore, on the right shoulder, it appears backwards but is not. You'll also find the same arrangement on the right side of military aircraft, space shuttle and other equipment.
@@jesseslaughter2990Thanks, I did not know that!
Thank you!
selling tools not skills
This is the best ever video on the subject. Very detailed for a DIY like myself. Thank you.
Hate auto correct
Great video!!
good video