Good test, I think you proved that a Hyd Oil change and filter does make a difference. I'll make sure to clean and replace oil and filter 100 Hrs. on my JD 1023E that is for sure. Thanks for showing us, Tim. You the man!!
Cool testing! Great stuff! So sounds like people are confused about the premise behind hydrostatic vs a gear transmission, and how they generate power to the ground differently. A gear transmission gets its power directly from the engine via gear ratios. Higher gears give you higher speed but less power and vice versa (Lugging a car in tip gear low rpm you have no acceleration, but in first you can take off quick but can’t go fast). With hydrostatic your uncoupling the engine from the wheels by using a pump to build pressure against a valve body that can be opened or closed. Pressure is based on rpm of the engine and flow based on how open or closed the valve is. In neutral the flow is bypassed at a lower pressure to recirculate fluid does it doesn’t overheat and cool the pump. When you open the valve (press either pedal) the flow is redirected to a maximum flow based on how open the valve is. Consequently when the valve is partially open you are building more pressure in the valve body than in the circuit your calling flow to until you hit stall pressure, (which is the relief / maximum allowed pressure the system was designed set at) at which time the valve is limiting your force through the transmission. With the valve all the way open the flow can be unrestricted to pressurize the entire load on the transmission giving you the most power until you reach stall pressure again. When you’ve stalled the transmission with the valve all the way open all excess flow and pressure is re directed through the bypass circuit again to keep fluid moving through the pump so it won’t be damaged from cavitation or overheat. So of course clean filter and fluid will help keep maximum flow and keep pressure restriction to a minimum for the most power to the ground. Hope that’s understandable lol.
I understand that, but in order to get the lift max out of these systems you have to run the rpm @ max throttle. Understanding at idle I can’t lift a full bucket but at WOT I can lift it even albeit slow against the relief/valve. If I’m at WOT I expect to run high enough pressure to overcome the relief valve, but at an idle does it produce the same pressure? Is it constant pressure pump? Or a variable pressure pump? So an affect of rpm against the prime mover then? I’ll meet you in the middle there. Im not sure if there’s any load sensing, these sub compacts are pretty bare and simple w/low gpm’s. I believe just open-center. One pump provides for everything. I wish they separated the hydraulics on its own pump, but that would be asking a lot of such a tiny platform.
Oh I did some looking, only thing I could find on the pump for the 1025r is that it’s set @2000 psi off the manifold regulator and the 1023 and 2025 gen 2 have pumps set @ 2150 psi. Not sure why the 1023 has more pressure, but I don’t see anything about load sensing. Also to satisfy my curiosity I found they didn’t put dual pumps in until the 2032. Guess maybe I’m due for an upgrade haha
Tim, I always enjoy the videos. The viscosity of oil varies with temperature, so without knowing the temperature of each test you can actually draw no sound conclusion, especially with regard to the filter as the oil is filtered on the way back to the tank, not on it way to the pump. If the filter can't pass enough oil (dirty etc) pressure will rise and eventually the filter bypass will trip and excess flow will not be filtered at all, allowing unfiltered oil back to the tank then to the pump. (this same process happens with the engine filter and is based on the idea, it's better to have enough oil flow regardless of it's cleanliness). Also oils breakdown over use and time gaining moisture and dirt. Hence oil and filter change interval. Hope this helps and God Bless
I’m not sure how that equates to rolling weight but I use my 1025r to move boats around at my shop. My driveway has about a 7% grade and I’ve never had a problem pulling boats up it. The heaviest was about 10k lbs. I enjoy your videos and appreciate the time you put into it.
I just shared this video with a forum member who is considering purchase a light weight box blade for his 1025R. I reference this video, the max pull at 6:42 and the specifications for the light weight box blade, which were under the max pull number. Thats as far as I’m going as I ‘m spent due to any answer I gave seemed to be rebutted. I decided I don’t care if he buys the wrong attachment and pulls it apart. How you are able to read some of the comments I see on some of your videos and not get phased by it has me respecting you in yet another way. I guess your skin is simply thickener then mine. Thank you for continuing to produce and share your content. Both of you Tim and Chrissy do an amazing job.
Very informative video! Would be really interesting if you could do a load cell test on the loader at the pins with the load cell anchored at different lift heights just to compare to what JD sets the specs at... Kinda like you did with the weights in the bucket
Funny you should post this today Tim. I had to pull my stuck Ram 2500 diesel with a partially full dump trailer up a slight slope today with my BX23s. The combo In total weighed at least 10,000 lbs. I know it was rolling weight but I was still impressed. In an earlier comment someone stated that they wished Tim still had the BX he used to run the comparative tests on. If your looking for specs on BX pulling power, Messick's did a pull test comparing Turf and R4 tires. Search for "Messicks Turf Tires VS. R4 Tires". Most of the results were reasonably close to the 1025R with the one exception being low range, 4wd, R4 tire pulled more than his load cell could measure (3000 lbs load cell). Could have been an anomaly but I suspect that having cold or cool hydraulic fluid as I believe Kobotas did will make some difference. What sub-compacts can pull is really quite remarkable!
Poor mans science is good enough science for me. Actual footage and actual real time testing and numbers to boot. Good enough for me and you got a subbie.
Yes, very interesing. Courtney did a demo & his 1025R pulled his F-350 & gooseneck (about 11-12k lb.) up the driveway/hill from his shop. W/just the truck, it did it w/ease. W/the trailer too it strained a bit bit still did it. I suspect it would've pulled a couple thousand more pounds. Was very impressive.
Brian Smith 2025r does have a slightly bigger pump. It’s pushing just a bit more pressure in the lines. And the hydraulic pressure is where you get your power from. It’s why the 2025r can lift a bit more and probably pull a little more also. But I’d love to see the same channel with a 2025r. I have one and would love to see the difference
The internal relief is set by pressure (usually a spring), by pressing the pedal more it allows for more flow. So you might gain more pressure by increasing the flow. Kinda like how your loader lifts weight. Anytime you hear the engine being pulled down more, you should be using more psi to turn the wheels. It all really depends on how Deer have their hydro system setup.
I have a 2025r and routinely pull a 4500 lb. personnel lift around my yard. I realize I’m not pulling the whole weight as it’s a rolling load but I estimate it’s at least half. I tried it with a 1025r but couldn’t get enough traction not to spin. I tried the 2025r and it had the traction it needed. I’m very pleased with ny 2025r.
I know this is an older video Tim but I can explain the reason you are seeing a slight increase in drawbar pull when you continue to push the pedal down further. Since you are continuing to increase displacement of the propel pump, and its dumping all of its flow over relief, the further you push the pedal the more oil you dump over the cross port relief. The relief valve has a pressure rise rate that is affected by the amount of oil being dumped over the relief. So, you are saturating the relief valve and its taking more upstream pressure to push the oil over the relief valve. That increases the loop high pressure to the piston motor in the transaxle, which bumps up your drawbar pull a little. If you repeated this test by doing a pulldown (get the towed vehicle rolling, then slowly apply brakes until you stall the 1025R) you'll also get a much higher max drawbar. Stalled piston motors have a much lower starting torque than a piston motor that is spinning over 100rpm's, due to efficiencies and the design of axial piston pumps & motors. In fact, on the same ground I bet if you are doing a pulldown you can end up spinning the tires in low range and/or stalling the engine. Love your videos! Keep them coming!!
I believe this test. I hadn’t noticed much while building my pond with my 2720 that over the hours the tractor was losing a little power as I also slowly got used to the difference. However, after completing the pond and then changing the air, fuel, oil, and hydro fluids and filters there was a noticeable change in the sound of the tractor (quieter) and the power was back to when it was new. It now has just under 400 hours and runs like new again!
Like you, I always thought that letting up a little on the go pedal gives you a bit more pulling power versus having it all the way down. Maybe having the tires stationary instead of turning changes the how the hydro system reacts to pulling a load?
Your test would be great as an example of you pulling a stump out of the ground. Pull to your max and if it doesn't move, get a bigger tractor. It however is a poor example of towing. If towing on a flat grade for example, your highest reading would likely be just before the trailer moves. After that the force would decrease. If you gradually push the throttle after that, I think you would find the force to remain similar but the speed would increase. Obviously uphill the force would be a little higher and downhill you might read zero. Short answer is your test was valid for certain conditions and not others but still neat to see the limit for our small tractors! Love the content. Keep up the work.
Excellent test Tim! This is the stuff I like to see most. Having those shavings in the screen certainly has an affect on hydraulic flow in the Transmisson at least that’s what I’m gonna say. The first time I heard you say Deere suggests a longer interval for the first oil change I said in my head no no no do it at 50 lol. Great video and this just proves the point; also, who wants all that metal sitting in there transaxle for all them extra hours? I know I don’t. Great job!
I recently found your channel and as a subcompact tractor owner I enjoy your videos. I wonder if ud be able to get a higher number without the weight? If maybe holding up the 500lbs could be using some of the available hydro pressure. It's amazing what these little tractors and do. I know what I've towed with mine 10ftdump trailer filled with manure, all the trailers around the farm, and my 6000lbs hurricane deck boat. Its very impressive.
Great stuff Tim. Being a new owner of the 1025R it’s interesting to see all of your testing and options. What I realize is that JD must be listening to these videos, as many of the upgrades and mods are already in place on my 2023!! My question to you is, does 2400 pounds of pulling for a tractor this size good, fair or poor? What were you expecting? Great videos as always! Thank you!
Great test Tim. Like seeing this type vid as well as the on site work. Load cell would probably be great for loader capacity testing too. Just watched Neil @ Messick's do the same type test with a Hydrostatic vs. Gear drive L3901 so pretty fair test. I won't be the spoiler here but check it out. I'm considering a L3901 or 2038R and hoping Tim will do a compression:). Kubota doesn't seem to have anything else in that same HP as I think an LX would be a better comparison with respect to features. I'm old school & like gears but the advantage of a Hydrostatic for doing loader work & for using something like the Brush Mulcher Tim demo'd seems invaluable. I've even pushed snow in a p/u w/a manual trans and other than when drag racing back in the day I've never burned up a clutch but I could see doing loader work getting old with a gear driven tractor & burning up a clutch and even cutting grass in tight areas could be much more difficult. As much as I really want a gear driven tractor I think Hydrostatic is probably the better way to go.
Makes me wonder what Jonny would pull if it a solid connection instead of a fluid drive. Then again, I think if one wanted greater power, one would acquire a larger tractor.
Tim, yes there reliefs valves but they don't open until they get to a preset value. So oil is slipping between the rotating group and valve plate. When pushing all that oil over the relief you generating lots of heat and sheering the oil. FYI I've been in the hydraulic business for 25 years.
I suspect the viscosity difference between the used oil and new is what really made the difference. Oil, regardless of type will break down (looses viscosity) to some degree from heat/usage over time.
When I changed the hyd. fluid for the first time on my Kubota 2650 at 50 hrs. I cut the filter in half to see the inside and was amazed at how dirty it was . ( Filters doing their job )
Good video. May I suggest a stock tractor pull between subcompacts? Maybe 3 or 4 brands? I'm interested to see ( for fun and competition) and can't find any example on youtube or anywhere. This video is the only thing close. Thanks 👍
Shoot yeah man I loved it in some Situations you can only pull from reverse try pulling with the bucket to see what we come up with keep them videos Rolling
Great video. The comment about cooler air being more a factor than clean oil is very interesting. Any chance you can redo the test (in your spare time) on a warmer day?
In order to understand why it pulls harder at full pedal you simply need to understand how a variable displacement piston pump works. Moving the pedal moves the swash plate to a greater angle creating more flow to your fixed displacement motor, this results in more pressure up until you hit the relief pressure. Higher engine speed will have more flow at the same swash plate position so that also makes perfect sense. What does Johnny weigh in that configuration? Would be interesting to see what your tractive force percentage is (vehicle weight / pull weight). I'd guess you are around 85-90% which is excellent.
I edited my comment. I said fixed displacement pump but I meant motor. A hydrostatic trans is a variable displacement pump directing flow rate and direction to a fixed displacement motor.
Hi Tim, I had quite the chuckle regarding the "Cheeseburger ballast! Ok, now that you have everyone"s attention, how about using a large tree for an anchor, and then test Johnny 2 & 5 as well as Vinny!
Man I can't possibly explain it but I love watching the smallest "real" tractors getting beat lol also have to admit I'm actually surprised how much that mini-me tractor can actually exert. I'm still running my 88' Deere 1050 which is basically between a new 4 and 5 series. She doesn't have modern comfort but she's almost pathetically reliable. Still new enough for very strong hydraulics, 6' fel with an 8 model quick connect backhoe with a 10' boom. She runs over 16" ground clearance and I've used every single inch a couple times in rediculous mud, where the 52" tall rears are the only reason she paddled through so I could access the back couple acres for my firewood. The new tractors are the most powerful most refined ever, yet theyve lost some of their "real man's" reliability. For those of us who do all the work/maintenance/repairs ourselves we're screwed if we need to do any diagnostics, then the newer emissions man it's always something, gain on one end to loose on another.... As always, excellent video you crazy bstrd! Haha
It seemed like you never gave it a chance to max out while doing the pedal test. The scale continued to go up. Couldn’t tell if you left the pedal where it was if it would max out then press the pedal further down and see if you get more power.
So, everything else being equal, your pulling power is going to be greatest when the torque output of the hydrostatic transmission is the highest... which is going to (generally) be at lower speed input. A hydrostatic transmission can move fluid at either a high flow rate and low pressure or low flow rate and high pressure, but not both at the same time. The extra pulling force you were seeing as you gave it the beans was likely due to the transmission running at a more efficient speed given the input hydraulic flow/pressure. There are a lot of other factors that go into it too.
Nice test tim ,and nice too see that there is a different bevor and after. Maybe you can try next time to only clean the filter and than the pull test 💪💪👍
I'd like to see if running each test over undisturbed ground makes a difference. I think running the tires over the same area of the ground creates compaction and grooves for better traction.
the goal of this test was to ensure ZERO slippage (100% traction). Eliminate slippage as a variable. We achieved that goal. Allowing slippage introduces another variable, and makes testing more difficult.
I'd be interested to see how much it would pull in a trailer. I have a 2520 and I pulled an f150 out of my neighbors yard because he was stuck in the mud. It was up hill about 6 ft rise over 400 feet. It pulled it with ease in low range
The fluid change only made a difference. Because of the anti wear additives were refreshed. I think for the screen to degrade the output it would have to be clogged.
Hi Tim, Very interesting test. I'm seriously considering getting a 1023E with a quick change bucket, QC grappel & mower deck with load&go feature plus a rear ballast box. Let me know your thoughts if you would..
The oil pump is attached to the engine. Higher revs means more pressure in H. oil to wheels and implements. Faster bucket and naturally the mower and tiller need to be up there high! They need power.
This is one thing getting into my first hydrostatic transmission that I’m not going to like. I’m a Farmall person, pulling a load that won’t move means engine bog or your digging ruts. So this is going to feel weird when I get into harder work with our new little machine.
Hey Tim I really liked this video, Hey next Fluid changes Give Lucas hyd. Fluids and oils a try, It really helps in my LSMT125 and the hydrastic Drive is noticeably quieter with Lucas. Take care God Bless Respectfully TA Luck
Interesting. I'd be curious those numbers from a Massey Ferguson gc1720. Our 2018 gc1720 at work will stall the engine in high and low from idle to full throttle. I wonder if it would pull harder or they are not at efficient with power use. Now in my uses from pulling to driving up steep hills it will always power out first and can kill the engine if you let it in high or low.
i feel like i have more power after a shower to are you sure it had anything to do with the oil change :P nice video Tim now strap that ventrac up and show us what its made of
Hey Tim you ever have to grade ?? I get grading calls all The time and I’ve struggled to get it done I’m better now but I would love to see a how to grading job in a tractor I mean how to bring up grade and down !! How to establish a benchmark etc start to finish let’s do it ?
Also show how to have a grade with drainage like a 1% fall or so I think 1% is an inch at 8 ft . More if ya have lots if water which your new property does I’m sure ! How’s your pond project in the back yard winter Is here any progress buddy ? Have ya diverted any more of the swamp ? Or built it up ? I forget does your 2038r have top and tilt in the rear ? I think it does with backhoe anyways love the videos as always that again buddy was your inspiration that made me chase my tractor business dream and I’m loving it ! And please let’s do a grading video of real grading
That is an interesting test. Now let's see some comparisons to other tractors! Glad to see Katriel made it back home for a visit!
i think them was inserts from older video of them cleaning the tractor. look for the one of taking the plastic off the seat video.
Good test, I think you proved that a Hyd Oil change and filter does make a difference. I'll make sure to clean and replace oil and filter 100 Hrs. on my JD 1023E that is for sure. Thanks for showing us, Tim. You the man!!
I saw a big Casey in the background I think also you need to do the same test with different tractors
"Cheeseburger ballast" - a critical element for use in scientific research to ensure accurate results !! Informative video as always, Tim - thanks !!
a tip : watch series on flixzone. Been using it for watching loads of movies lately.
I wanna see the f250 in low range do a pull test.
I thought it was a f350
Most be a old video, trees are green in Nov. and you have Different rear tire on the 1025r, very informative video Tim, Thanks
Cool testing! Great stuff! So sounds like people are confused about the premise behind hydrostatic vs a gear transmission, and how they generate power to the ground differently. A gear transmission gets its power directly from the engine via gear ratios. Higher gears give you higher speed but less power and vice versa (Lugging a car in tip gear low rpm you have no acceleration, but in first you can take off quick but can’t go fast). With hydrostatic your uncoupling the engine from the wheels by using a pump to build pressure against a valve body that can be opened or closed. Pressure is based on rpm of the engine and flow based on how open or closed the valve is. In neutral the flow is bypassed at a lower pressure to recirculate fluid does it doesn’t overheat and cool the pump. When you open the valve (press either pedal) the flow is redirected to a maximum flow based on how open the valve is. Consequently when the valve is partially open you are building more pressure in the valve body than in the circuit your calling flow to until you hit stall pressure, (which is the relief / maximum allowed pressure the system was designed set at) at which time the valve is limiting your force through the transmission. With the valve all the way open the flow can be unrestricted to pressurize the entire load on the transmission giving you the most power until you reach stall pressure again. When you’ve stalled the transmission with the valve all the way open all excess flow and pressure is re directed through the bypass circuit again to keep fluid moving through the pump so it won’t be damaged from cavitation or overheat. So of course clean filter and fluid will help keep maximum flow and keep pressure restriction to a minimum for the most power to the ground. Hope that’s understandable lol.
s1283 pressure isn’t based on rpm of the engine, pressure in a hyd circuit is based on the the torque of the prime mover
s1283 this will likely be an open loop circuit with a load sensing pump
I understand that, but in order to get the lift max out of these systems you have to run the rpm @ max throttle. Understanding at idle I can’t lift a full bucket but at WOT I can lift it even albeit slow against the relief/valve. If I’m at WOT I expect to run high enough pressure to overcome the relief valve, but at an idle does it produce the same pressure? Is it constant pressure pump? Or a variable pressure pump? So an affect of rpm against the prime mover then? I’ll meet you in the middle there. Im not sure if there’s any load sensing, these sub compacts are pretty bare and simple w/low gpm’s. I believe just open-center. One pump provides for everything. I wish they separated the hydraulics on its own pump, but that would be asking a lot of such a tiny platform.
Oh I did some looking, only thing I could find on the pump for the 1025r is that it’s set @2000 psi off the manifold regulator and the 1023 and 2025 gen 2 have pumps set @ 2150 psi. Not sure why the 1023 has more pressure, but I don’t see anything about load sensing. Also to satisfy my curiosity I found they didn’t put dual pumps in until the 2032. Guess maybe I’m due for an upgrade haha
Tim, I always enjoy the videos. The viscosity of oil varies with temperature, so without knowing the temperature of each test you can actually draw no sound conclusion, especially with regard to the filter as the oil is filtered on the way back to the tank, not on it way to the pump. If the filter can't pass enough oil (dirty etc) pressure will rise and eventually the filter bypass will trip and excess flow will not be filtered at all, allowing unfiltered oil back to the tank then to the pump. (this same process happens with the engine filter and is based on the idea, it's better to have enough oil flow regardless of it's cleanliness). Also oils breakdown over use and time gaining moisture and dirt. Hence oil and filter change interval. Hope this helps and God Bless
I’m not sure how that equates to rolling weight but I use my 1025r to move boats around at my shop. My driveway has about a 7% grade and I’ve never had a problem pulling boats up it. The heaviest was about 10k lbs.
I enjoy your videos and appreciate the time you put into it.
I just shared this video with a forum member who is considering purchase a light weight box blade for his 1025R.
I reference this video, the max pull at 6:42 and the specifications for the light weight box blade, which were under the max pull number. Thats as far as I’m going as I ‘m spent due to any answer I gave seemed to be rebutted.
I decided I don’t care if he buys the wrong attachment and pulls it apart.
How you are able to read some of the comments I see on some of your videos and not get phased by it has me respecting you in yet another way. I guess your skin is simply thickener then mine.
Thank you for continuing to produce and share your content. Both of you Tim and Chrissy do an amazing job.
Thanks Doug. Sometimes the comments really bother me, other times they don’t. The more absurd, the less they bother.
@@TractorTimewithTim I like the way you look at it.
Very informative video! Would be really interesting if you could do a load cell test on the loader at the pins with the load cell anchored at different lift heights just to compare to what JD sets the specs at... Kinda like you did with the weights in the bucket
Great episode. It would be investing to see the new tires repeat this test
Noticed the Good Works decal, another good source of information
Funny you should post this today Tim. I had to pull my stuck Ram 2500 diesel with a partially full dump trailer up a slight slope today with my BX23s. The combo In total weighed at least 10,000 lbs. I know it was rolling weight but I was still impressed.
In an earlier comment someone stated that they wished Tim still had the BX he used to run the comparative tests on. If your looking for specs on BX pulling power, Messick's did a pull test comparing Turf and R4 tires. Search for "Messicks Turf Tires VS. R4 Tires". Most of the results were reasonably close to the 1025R with the one exception being low range, 4wd, R4 tire pulled more than his load cell could measure (3000 lbs load cell). Could have been an anomaly but I suspect that having cold or cool hydraulic fluid as I believe Kobotas did will make some difference. What sub-compacts can pull is really quite remarkable!
Poor mans science is good enough science for me. Actual footage and actual real time testing and numbers to boot. Good enough for me and you got a subbie.
Welcome! Thanks for the kind words.
Yes, very interesing. Courtney did a demo & his 1025R pulled his F-350 & gooseneck (about 11-12k lb.) up the driveway/hill from his shop. W/just the truck, it did it w/ease. W/the trailer too it strained a bit bit still did it. I suspect it would've pulled a couple thousand more pounds. Was very impressive.
Wow, the stable of equipment in the background with the US flag waving is awesome! Enjoyed the video. I had no idea the 1025R was such a beast!
Wish you had a 2025 so we could see it there’s any difference in the 1 to 2 series. Not sure if the 2 series has larger pumps or not.
Brian Smith 2025r does have a slightly bigger pump. It’s pushing just a bit more pressure in the lines. And the hydraulic pressure is where you get your power from. It’s why the 2025r can lift a bit more and probably pull a little more also. But I’d love to see the same channel with a 2025r. I have one and would love to see the difference
@@4Jeffv yes but, you can adjust the pressure up on the 1025/26 a couple hundred PSI.
The internal relief is set by pressure (usually a spring), by pressing the pedal more it allows for more flow. So you might gain more pressure by increasing the flow. Kinda like how your loader lifts weight. Anytime you hear the engine being pulled down more, you should be using more psi to turn the wheels.
It all really depends on how Deer have their hydro system setup.
I have a 2025r and routinely pull a 4500 lb. personnel lift around my yard. I realize I’m not pulling the whole weight as it’s a rolling load but I estimate it’s at least half. I tried it with a 1025r but couldn’t get enough traction not to spin. I tried the 2025r and it had the traction it needed. I’m very pleased with ny 2025r.
I know this is an older video Tim but I can explain the reason you are seeing a slight increase in drawbar pull when you continue to push the pedal down further. Since you are continuing to increase displacement of the propel pump, and its dumping all of its flow over relief, the further you push the pedal the more oil you dump over the cross port relief. The relief valve has a pressure rise rate that is affected by the amount of oil being dumped over the relief. So, you are saturating the relief valve and its taking more upstream pressure to push the oil over the relief valve. That increases the loop high pressure to the piston motor in the transaxle, which bumps up your drawbar pull a little.
If you repeated this test by doing a pulldown (get the towed vehicle rolling, then slowly apply brakes until you stall the 1025R) you'll also get a much higher max drawbar. Stalled piston motors have a much lower starting torque than a piston motor that is spinning over 100rpm's, due to efficiencies and the design of axial piston pumps & motors. In fact, on the same ground I bet if you are doing a pulldown you can end up spinning the tires in low range and/or stalling the engine.
Love your videos! Keep them coming!!
I believe this test. I hadn’t noticed much while building my pond with my 2720 that over the hours the tractor was losing a little power as I also slowly got used to the difference.
However, after completing the pond and then changing the air, fuel, oil, and hydro fluids and filters there was a noticeable change in the sound of the tractor (quieter) and the power was back to when it was new. It now has just under 400 hours and runs like new again!
Like you, I always thought that letting up a little on the go pedal gives you a bit more pulling power versus having it all the way down. Maybe having the tires stationary instead of turning changes the how the hydro system reacts to pulling a load?
Hey, just an FYI I believe it has a pressure relief to prevent too much stress. However in reverse it doesn't, I've stalled mine out in reverse.
This just made me want to test my old Cub.
I hope Tim would start a Compact Tractor Show and do a max pull test...
Your test would be great as an example of you pulling a stump out of the ground. Pull to your max and if it doesn't move, get a bigger tractor. It however is a poor example of towing. If towing on a flat grade for example, your highest reading would likely be just before the trailer moves. After that the force would decrease. If you gradually push the throttle after that, I think you would find the force to remain similar but the speed would increase. Obviously uphill the force would be a little higher and downhill you might read zero. Short answer is your test was valid for certain conditions and not others but still neat to see the limit for our small tractors! Love the content. Keep up the work.
Excellent test Tim! This is the stuff I like to see most. Having those shavings in the screen certainly has an affect on hydraulic flow in the Transmisson at least that’s what I’m gonna say. The first time I heard you say Deere suggests a longer interval for the first oil change I said in my head no no no do it at 50 lol. Great video and this just proves the point; also, who wants all that metal sitting in there transaxle for all them extra hours? I know I don’t.
Great job!
I've been looking at the 1025R and found you video very helpful. Thank you.
Welcome to our channel! We have hundreds of videos dedicated to the 1025r! Check em out!
Good video Tim. I totally agree that changing the fluid/filter can make a big difference.
I recently found your channel and as a subcompact tractor owner I enjoy your videos. I wonder if ud be able to get a higher number without the weight? If maybe holding up the 500lbs could be using some of the available hydro pressure. It's amazing what these little tractors and do. I know what I've towed with mine 10ftdump trailer filled with manure, all the trailers around the farm, and my 6000lbs hurricane deck boat. Its very impressive.
Great stuff Tim. Being a new owner of the 1025R it’s interesting to see all of your testing and options. What I realize is that JD must be listening to these videos, as many of the upgrades and mods are already in place on my 2023!! My question to you is, does 2400 pounds of pulling for a tractor this size good, fair or poor? What were you expecting? Great videos as always! Thank you!
It was basically the same as the Kubota BX
"Cheeseburger ballast", I've got that piece of equipment myself LOL!
Tim cleaning the filter gave you more flow and if you filter the fine material from old oil it's still good oil
very interesting! I will prob be chainging mine at 100 hours for that reason as well... why not! I am at 80H now. so getting close! thanks! very cool!
I wonder what a comparable gear drive tractor would do.
Great test Tim. Like seeing this type vid as well as the on site work. Load cell would probably be great for loader capacity testing too.
Just watched Neil @ Messick's do the same type test with a Hydrostatic vs. Gear drive L3901 so pretty fair test. I won't be the spoiler here but check it out. I'm considering a L3901 or 2038R and hoping Tim will do a compression:). Kubota doesn't seem to have anything else in that same HP as I think an LX would be a better comparison with respect to features.
I'm old school & like gears but the advantage of a Hydrostatic for doing loader work & for using something like the Brush Mulcher Tim demo'd seems invaluable. I've even pushed snow in a p/u w/a manual trans and other than when drag racing back in the day I've never burned up a clutch but I could see doing loader work getting old with a gear driven tractor & burning up a clutch and even cutting grass in tight areas could be much more difficult. As much as I really want a gear driven tractor I think Hydrostatic is probably the better way to go.
Tim u should make a video of all your tractors and implements. Keep up the good work Tim love
Makes me wonder what Jonny would pull if it a solid connection instead of a fluid drive. Then again, I think if one wanted greater power, one would acquire a larger tractor.
*"cheeseburger ballast"* ... oh man Tim ! you just cracked me up ! LOL Happy Friday ! 😁
That’s a lot of power for a small tractor. I would have thought the numbers would have been lower.
I am glad to see that Casey has been returned to the homestead!
Nah, this was several weeks ago. In fact, Casey left between the two pulling tests!
Tim, yes there reliefs valves but they don't open until they get to a preset value. So oil is slipping between the rotating group and valve plate. When pushing all that oil over the relief you generating lots of heat and sheering the oil. FYI I've been in the hydraulic business for 25 years.
Very good test thanks
Makes me want to clean my hyd filer and clean the screen it seams like it is worth the expense
Tim keep up the good work.! Enjoy what I see on your vidios.!!! ✔⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐👍
Thanks for watching!
I suspect the viscosity difference between the used oil and new is what really made the difference. Oil, regardless of type will break down (looses viscosity) to some degree from heat/usage over time.
When I changed the hyd. fluid for the first time on my Kubota 2650 at 50 hrs. I cut the filter in half to see the inside and was amazed at how dirty it was . ( Filters doing their job )
Thats another real world test it would have been cool to do that to the Kubota thanks for always expanding your testing
I did! ...they were very close to each other. I was tired of the series, and I think the viewers were as well, so I didn’t include it.
@@TractorTimewithTim uh, no we were not tired of that series. :)
Next week Tractor pulling competition with Johnny 🚜😂
Good video. May I suggest a stock tractor pull between subcompacts? Maybe 3 or 4 brands? I'm interested to see ( for fun and competition) and can't find any example on youtube or anywhere. This video is the only thing close. Thanks 👍
Shoot yeah man I loved it in some Situations you can only pull from reverse try pulling with the bucket to see what we come up with keep them videos Rolling
Very interesting!! Do u have weights stripped down for a reason?
Stripped down?
Oh my. Strapped down.
Had one bounce off in my trailer once. I didn’t lose it, but it bounced off. So only there for road transport.
hi Tim it mite be interesting to test out the 2 series with the same motor against the 1025 just a thort thanks Paul
Great video. The comment about cooler air being more a factor than clean oil is very interesting. Any chance you can redo the test (in your spare time) on a warmer day?
How did you get the tool box on the side vs the back?
REALLY informative vid Tim - thanks!
In order to understand why it pulls harder at full pedal you simply need to understand how a variable displacement piston pump works. Moving the pedal moves the swash plate to a greater angle creating more flow to your fixed displacement motor, this results in more pressure up until you hit the relief pressure. Higher engine speed will have more flow at the same swash plate position so that also makes perfect sense.
What does Johnny weigh in that configuration? Would be interesting to see what your tractive force percentage is (vehicle weight / pull weight). I'd guess you are around 85-90% which is excellent.
I edited my comment. I said fixed displacement pump but I meant motor. A hydrostatic trans is a variable displacement pump directing flow rate and direction to a fixed displacement motor.
Been looking at buying one of those. got some testing I wanna do on a much bigger tractor😀
Hi Tim,
I had quite the chuckle regarding the "Cheeseburger ballast!
Ok, now that you have everyone"s attention, how about using a large tree for an anchor, and then test Johnny 2 & 5 as well as Vinny!
Man I can't possibly explain it but I love watching the smallest "real" tractors getting beat lol also have to admit I'm actually surprised how much that mini-me tractor can actually exert. I'm still running my 88' Deere 1050 which is basically between a new 4 and 5 series. She doesn't have modern comfort but she's almost pathetically reliable. Still new enough for very strong hydraulics, 6' fel with an 8 model quick connect backhoe with a 10' boom. She runs over 16" ground clearance and I've used every single inch a couple times in rediculous mud, where the 52" tall rears are the only reason she paddled through so I could access the back couple acres for my firewood.
The new tractors are the most powerful most refined ever, yet theyve lost some of their "real man's" reliability. For those of us who do all the work/maintenance/repairs ourselves we're screwed if we need to do any diagnostics, then the newer emissions man it's always something, gain on one end to loose on another....
As always, excellent video you crazy bstrd! Haha
is the transmission fluid hygroscopic? maybe replacing the old water contaminated fluid with new makes the difference
I think it would be nice to redo this test with turbo johnny.
My engine dies before the transmission stalls when doing a very similar test to this.
Yep!
It seemed like you never gave it a chance to max out while doing the pedal test. The scale continued to go up. Couldn’t tell if you left the pedal where it was if it would max out then press the pedal further down and see if you get more power.
So, everything else being equal, your pulling power is going to be greatest when the torque output of the hydrostatic transmission is the highest... which is going to (generally) be at lower speed input. A hydrostatic transmission can move fluid at either a high flow rate and low pressure or low flow rate and high pressure, but not both at the same time. The extra pulling force you were seeing as you gave it the beans was likely due to the transmission running at a more efficient speed given the input hydraulic flow/pressure. There are a lot of other factors that go into it too.
Nice test tim ,and nice too see that there is a different bevor and after. Maybe you can try next time to only clean the filter and than the pull test 💪💪👍
The filter is in the bottom of the sump. So, must drain the oil to remove it.
@@TractorTimewithTim Oke 👍
The atmospheric conditions could offer a slight performance advantage due to the density of the charge. I suspect it would be slight though.
Keep it up Tim!!!!
so.. isn't the tractor also pulling the added weight of the suitcase weights?
This test makes me cring!! Lol. Has to be the hardest torture test you can do with a hydrostatic tractor. It was interesting. Thanks.
Love these tests
Good test Tim, wonder what effect the clean oil and filter would have on hyd lift power
I'd like to see if running each test over undisturbed ground makes a difference. I think running the tires over the same area of the ground creates compaction and grooves for better traction.
the goal of this test was to ensure ZERO slippage (100% traction). Eliminate slippage as a variable. We achieved that goal. Allowing slippage introduces another variable, and makes testing more difficult.
Is that a new Rhino cutter in the background? Looks like there are 3 there now. I love the cutting videos let's see it shred some stuff.
I would love to see the results of the same test with the 2038R if you have the time.
I'd be interested to see how much it would pull in a trailer. I have a 2520 and I pulled an f150 out of my neighbors yard because he was stuck in the mud. It was up hill about 6 ft rise over 400 feet. It pulled it with ease in low range
Great insight. Thanks for this!
Tim thanks great test all your comparison are so great
God Bless
PaK
Interesting. Great video Tim.
id be interested to see this done again after the turbo is installed
The fluid change only made a difference. Because of the anti wear additives were refreshed. I think for the screen to degrade the output it would have to be clogged.
Hi Tim, Very interesting test. I'm seriously considering getting a 1023E with a quick change bucket, QC grappel & mower deck with load&go feature plus a rear ballast box.
Let me know your thoughts if you would..
Would like to see if there is a difference between LowVis and HighVis oil.
The oil pump is attached to the engine. Higher revs means more pressure in H. oil to wheels and implements. Faster bucket and naturally the mower and tiller need to be up there high! They need power.
This is one thing getting into my first hydrostatic transmission that I’m not going to like. I’m a Farmall person, pulling a load that won’t move means engine bog or your digging ruts. So this is going to feel weird when I get into harder work with our new little machine.
very interesting, wish you still had Kubota bx25d to test along side.
Did I miss something...didnt you say you had it in only 2 wheel drive on the first test while having it in 4 wheel the second test.
No, I tried 2wd and 4wd with both scenarios.
Hey Tim I really liked this video, Hey next Fluid changes Give Lucas hyd. Fluids and oils a try, It really helps in my LSMT125 and the hydrastic Drive is noticeably quieter with Lucas. Take care God Bless
Respectfully
TA Luck
Interesting. I'd be curious those numbers from a Massey Ferguson gc1720. Our 2018 gc1720 at work will stall the engine in high and low from idle to full throttle. I wonder if it would pull harder or they are not at efficient with power use. Now in my uses from pulling to driving up steep hills it will always power out first and can kill the engine if you let it in high or low.
Sounds like you are the man to perform the test!
@@TractorTimewithTim I absolutely would do the test if I had a load cell.
i feel like i have more power after a shower to are you sure it had anything to do with the oil change :P nice video Tim now strap that ventrac up and show us what its made of
I was wondering how the temperature affects the load cell ??
before the oil change didnt you have it two wheel drive. after the oil change four wheel drive......four wheel drive has no bearing on the test?
I tested 4wd before...just didn’t mention specifically when I switched it.
The lower the humidity the easier that air will flow through the engine resulting in more engine power. Also hotter fuel doesn’t give as much power
Now lets see you do the same test with the 2-series.
Hey Tim, can you do the same test with the Ventrac and the Kubota?
Kubota is gone. But I tested it when it was here. Essentially identical to the 1025r
@@TractorTimewithTim Looks like quite a few people here want to see "Vinny" put to the test...lol
Can you please tell us we’re you got that scale at?
Ebay
how does that conpare with a 4x4 F150
Ciao. My name Is alessandro.can you tel me please which kind of inserimento you use of pull test.thanks
Hey Tim you ever have to grade ?? I get grading calls all
The time and I’ve struggled to get it done I’m better now but I would love to see a how to grading job in a tractor I mean how to bring up grade and down !! How to establish a benchmark etc start to finish let’s do it ?
Also show how to have a grade with drainage like a 1% fall or so I think 1% is an inch at 8 ft . More if ya have lots if water which your new property does I’m sure ! How’s your pond project in the back yard winter Is here any progress buddy ? Have ya diverted any more of the swamp ? Or built it up ? I forget does your 2038r have top and tilt in the rear ? I think it does with backhoe anyways love the videos as always that again buddy was your inspiration that made me chase my tractor business dream and I’m loving it ! And please let’s do a grading video of real grading
Interesting. Now you need to repeat all your lifting videos with the fresh oil change. Haha!
Wish you would have compared the junkbota with Johnny on this test.
I did. They were basically identical.
I’d like to see you do that with the 2038, especially since I have one.