The Counterintuitive Physics of Turning a Bike
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- Опубліковано 14 лип 2015
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A HUGE thanks to Michael Aranda for aerial and slow motion photography and Wren Weichman (@wrenthereaper) for helping with the 3D bike animation.
Bike references mainly from:
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Next time i got for a cycle im gonna play close attention to my turning as Ive never noticed this before, its mostly subconscious i guess but thinking about it i probably do steer slightly to the other direction first.
xisumavoid hello Xisuma I'll try to do that to
It has a much more pronounced impact on a motorbike because there is also the gyroscopic effect to take into the equation. This is because a motorbike wheel has more mass and rotates a higher speeds. It's probably also worth noting that the amount of counter steering required is quite small for a large impact on direction. So don't go nuts with it ;)
who turns like that?
grigas003 Anybody who races.
xisumavoid I tilt first, so I don't have to do that... :P
Now I forgot how to ride a bike...
Same
Same
Haha funny lol
I saw another explaination of bicycle. But it was different method. I can't realized that. Please help me.
@breezelow unknown you are deluded
When i go straight in a bike i feel calm
but when i take a turn i start to panic
I think u mean kalm and panik
SAME
yeah my bike like a girrafe neck doing zig zag but it just grows and make a sharp-smooth turn
i got a bmx...does this work as well as a normal bike
@@jenajelema yep physics applies the same on all bikes
You learn this in motorcycle safety and certification class. What this video fails to mention is the speed factor. At very low speeds this concept is not as dramatic. You feel like you are just turning the handlebars to turn. And you are. The concept still applies, you just don't sense it. At high speeds, like on a motorcycle, the concept is very noticeable. You are taught to "press" the handlebars in the direction you want to turn to start the bike leaning. Your body will then lean with the bike, you will go around the curve, and then straighten up as you come out of it. The more you ride, the less you think about it, and it just becomes a natural "instinct". But if you think about it when you do it, it is fascinating. Can't really appreciate the full concept until you are going 80 mph on the highway into a curve on a motorcycle. It is exhilerating to say the least!!!
These are two different things, you're confusing a driving technique with physics. The latter _always_ applies even with extreme low speed (otherwise the bike would simply fall)
@@arpad2188 correct however the force needed is so low its barly noticable where you can call it not countering
@@arpad2188 Are you implying that the entire process of driving does not entirely involve physics ? Everything from speed, weight, design and degree of freedom has an effect of motor vehicle mobility. That driving technique is based on physics.
At 220 kph on a motorcycle, if you don't do the right thing, you die.
i used to be able to ride a bike now after watching this i keep crashing
Focus on the weight of pressure you put on your pedals and bars and turn with your hips not your handle bars.
biking feels so natural, i dont even remember doing any of this
Xzqwerty2324zX I know it’s 3 years late but I agree so much. Biking is like a fifth limb.
@@darthgriffin7741 i know this is 1 year late, but biking is like in our blood. in fact, if you watch videos of a 'backwards bicycle', youll see its hard to ride one. go check it out.
Darayat Neato, I will look that up, thanks!
@@darayat2657 muscle memory
You don’t even need to use the handlebars.
I ride hands free for miles at a time even with turns. Lol
I was expecting they would say something about the recent fly-by of Pluto... but apearently learning how to turn a bike is more important...
caramida9 its not that its important but minute physics doesn't really make videos out of recent events especially just because its related to science. try science news blogs or channels XD
This channel isn't really about astronomy.
Electric Bacon it is about physics, which includes astronomy.
*****
lol
They're both equally unimportant because neither are planets
This actually does a really good job at explaining why its so darn hard to learn how to ride a bike.
It also explains that phenomenon when you are about to fall off the edge of something while riding, but you can't just steer away from it and end up falling in anyway, you try to turn away, your weight shifts, and you then only are able to turn off that edge.
It's not that difficult to learn how to ride a bike. I learned it when I was 7, alone. My grandpa took off my learning wheels and then I just practised, it took me about 5 days.
Learning to ride a bike is easy. You don’t really think a whole lot about this concept. It just happens
@@Oolampara_Chekkan yippie
@@Oolampara_Chekkan Dude you're so cool, but you're not everyone. Having trouble learning to ride a bike is a universally widespread experience, and your single account doesn't change that.
The real issue is that a lot of people learn with training wheels, which completely eliminate this effect, because it stops your bike from leaning the way it would without.
this is right only if you use the handlebars like some kind of bicycle noob
The entirety of the Dutch population agrees with you sir.
KakashiFNGRL And Danes.
Nick Adams And Sweds
Satakarnak you forgot the second e.
Nick Adams So you ride a unicycle or what?
If you turn the handlebar to the right, you will go right, trust me. You might fall to the ground by left side of the bike if you dont lean right to increase centripetal force, but that doesnt mean you are turning left. Its quite annoying when "scientists" focus on trying to impress the people with "mind-blowing facts" more than investigating the universe, isn't it, MinutePhysics?
PRO3LEMS Yep, you'll fall off the bike if you don't lean in the direction you turn as well, but you'll Never have luck if you turn the opposite direction and lean in the right direction or don't lean at all. But that's something any living being automatically does anyway even when walking/running or you'd fall over because the support below your body went elsewhere and not where it was. I guess the science is pointing at something odd that happens if bike was driven by a brick.
PRO3LEMS You clearly do not understand the concept of exaggerating to help drive home the underlying principles... though I agree that MinutePhysics could have done a better job of explaining that it's all about getting your center of gravity to the side of the bike you want to turn in.
The forward momentum of your body will mean that your body will want to keep moving in the same direction. turning the handlebars, and thus the front wheel, will mean that the forward movement becomes harder to maintain due to friction, and the wheel will change it's trajectory to the path of least resistance. Your body, being disconnected from the friction that made the wheel change trajectory, will keep on its own trajectory, meaning the bicycle will go to the side and the body will no longer have the bicycle underneath it.
This is what constitutes a lean, since gravity is now lowering the body. Maintaining this course will lead to the body eventually hitting the ground. This is when a bicyclist will usually turn the wheel in the opposite direction, meaning changing the trajectory of the front wheel to one that intersects with the trajectory of the falling body, and due to the rigidity of the bicycle's frame, your body ceases to fall.
At the end of the "turn" you steer the wheel even further towards your own body; thus bringing the bicycle back underneath your body+bicycle's center of mass.
Added: There can be no "lean" without the offset from the center by the bicycle front wheel turning, when the beginning state is one of balance. The "lean" that some commenters are talking about is the same kind that you can do standing, by leaning your torso to the left and jutting out your hip to the right, making yourself look like a boomerang.
The turn that makes the bike leave the balanced point underneath your center of mass is very slight, and gets more and more subtle as speed increases, which is why trying to hold your balance going very slowly looks like wild flailing, while maintaining balance while going fast is imperceptible.
PRO3LEMS impressing people is the first step to get them interested since the love for science is not so great especially in america.
ALSO i mountain bike pretty extremely and im counter balancing all time. This means I lean on the opposite side of the bike than i am turning. So if i am turning left i lean on the right. If you lean on the same side you are turning, you will slide out while mountain biking. You can see even road bikers doing this counter balancing technique because they are going at very high speeds and they want to decrease their chances of sliding out.
PRO3LEMS Trololo lolololo
Wait I've always just turn it the direction i was going and lean to stabilize it. I'm even trying to rack my brain remembering instances that i did sometime like what was mention in the video for any reason other than some simple fun. I'm confused, this is intuitive. We even walk the same way, simply shifting our weight the direction we want to go.
TeamLaughOutLoud So I have I.
TeamLaughOutLoud Yeah if you lean actively it is intuitive. However the video describes how if you don't force the bike to lean in a direction steering right makes you actually turn left.
TeamLaughOutLoud I recommend trying it, with reasonable speed push one hand forwards, the wheel will go one way and you will lean the other, you can instigate very quick turns like this. Even if you "just lean" you will probably be doing mild counter steering without even knowing it, your brain just picked it up.
TeamLaughOutLoud you have to turn in the opposite direction if you didnt make any effort to lean your body
TeamLaughOutLoud Actually the initial counter-intuitive handlebar turn is done pretty much involuntarily when trying to keep balance when leaning. You don't actively turn the thing in the opposite direction, it just... happens.
This doesn't seem correct at all. You lean to the right to turn right, Why would you need to either lean or turn to the left first at all?
Rylo151 Did you watch the video? He explains why. It seems counter-intuitive when explaining it, but it feels completely intuitive when actually driving a bike.
Rylo151 You're missing a distinction. He didn't say "lean" to the right to turn left; he said "turn" to the right to rotate left. When you turn a bike, the center of mass shifts, causing a lean. When you lean a bike, the center of mass shifts, causing a turn. The lean is the equal and opposite reaction to the turn. So either you make a very slight turn in the opposite direction which you intend to go, which creates conditions for the lean which carries you through the turn, or you make a very slight lean, which creates conditions for the turn which carries you through the lean. That's why it's called "counter-intuitive". If you place accelerometers on your bike, you will find that before you turn in the intended direction, your bike will experience a force in the opposite direction.
There's a motorcycle video that explains it pretty well (search for no body steering), but basically the only way to turn a bike is to move your weight off the contact patch of the tires, and the bike's design makes it really easy to move the contract patch with a lot of precision while shifting your own weight is harder. It's possible to steer a bike with just weight shifting but it's so much more difficult than steering with the handlebars that it's more of a stunt than practical transportation.
Alexander Roderick whatttt??? steering using body weight shifting is more difficult then using handlebars??? the fuk? I don't use the handlebars at all while steering, only to keep balance and stability, in fact nowadays I can ride without holding onto the handlebars and even steer again without touching the handlebars
Daniel Sultana Yes, most people learn how to do that. It is however a lot harder to do than simply steering with your hands at your handlebars, it's harder to drive perfectly straight, and it's more likely that you're going to fall off your bike that way.
The really odd phenomenon is adults learning to ride a motorcycle. Despite knowing how to ride a bicycle, and how that bicycle turns, at least subconsciously, you need to teach an adult how to turn a motorcycle. For some reason many adults will fight with the notion of counter steering a motorcycle, which is compounded once they learn to lean into turns, and are actually required to steer into the turn to keep the turn on the correct radius.
One of the aspects of riding a motorcycle I particularly enjoy is finding that balance point in a long sweeping curve between shifting my body mass and keeping my steering input neutral.
Ace12GA Is that actually a problem? I have never driven a motorcycle but I know I could get the bike I had a few years ago up to 20 mph and even at those slow pedaling speeds I still had to pull on the left handle to keep a right turn from being too sharp.
I have riden motorcycle plenty of time, and I can tell you that you never ever turn the handlebar to do a turn when you are cruising. Its always just leaning with your body to turn. If you are driving very slow, or turning after a red light, then you should use the handlebar to turn. Otherwise, turning the handlebar at high speed just spells disaster.
Ace12GA This. It's always wild to see adults, especially those who have ridden bicycles for years, have to try to reconcile the fact that all their low speed experience and intuitions on a light weight thin tired vehicle has taught them nothing about what you need to do to make a heavier two wheeled vehicle initiate and tighten up a turn. Then inevitably they try to "just lean it through the turn," run wide, grab a handful of front brake and have an awful time.
dontknowdontcare Have you ever had to dodge road debris on the highway? Without using countersteering you're putting yourself at the whim of whether or not you're riding a line that'll hit it. Obviously tons of people cruise around that way with no skills to get them out of a jam, hence the high single vehicle accident rate among motorcyclists, particularly unlicensed ones, but I hardly think you're doing yourself a service by not knowing some shit that'll possibly save your life.
dontknowdontcare If you have to dodge something at high speed, pushing the handle bars is the only way. Strong push on one handle side to turn sharp, then strong push on the other side to re-straighten. Best practiced on a road with no traffic of course.
+dontknowdontcare
wrong. look up twist of the wrist
48 seconds in and almost certain that I'm going to crash next time I ride my bike to work.
A lot of people are pointing out that this isnt *that* correct. I think this applies mostly when going at higher speeds as turning the cycle to the right at a higher speed means the momentum overcomes the friction more and just makes it difficult.
Fresh you don't even need handle bars at higher speeds. Just lean and the bike will turn
I personally find the physics of bikes fascinating... so I, for one, adore these recent videos! Thanks so much! :)
I was never conscious of how to turn on on a bike. After so many years, one never stops learning. Thanks.
I hope I'm not the only one who wants to grab a bike and try this (and the "let a bike keep itself up" thing from 2 weeks ago).
that isn't counter intuitive regardless of how much physics geeks argue that it is. to turn on a bike you lean into a turn, that is absolutely intuitive to any adult even if they have never ridden a bike in their life.
kght222 it even applies to walking or running. making it intuitive.
it is like saying an 8 year old playing mario kart doesn't have any understanding that they can drive on the outside wall of a turn.
kght222 Of course it's intuitive, that's why most people can do it. But if you analyze each of the steps involved, they _sound_ counter-intuitive, that's all the video was getting at.
ThalesII no, they don't sound counter intuitive, if they were a child wouldn't understand leaning into a turn without allot of explanation.
a child understands leaning into a turn after the first time they run and turn while running.
Cool. Thinking about this video, I tried something on my bike. If I first shift my weight to the right without turning the handlebars, and then turn the handlebars right, the bike and I really do turn right. In other words, I don't need to twist the handlebars left in order to turn right. Also, as others have pointed out, you can turn by just leaning. This also does not require a left turn of the handlebars.
That's how I've done it for a while, but this way allows you to turn faster I believe
Instead of debating this, the easiest way you can test this is by getting on a bike and steering with one open palm. You might think that only being able to steer with your right palm will mean you obviously turn left because that's the only direction you can turn the handlebars, but surprisingly not being able to turn the handlebars to the right will prevent you from completing a stable left turn.
So what happens when I ride my bike without using hands? I don't lean left then throw myself right to make my right turn, i lean right and make that right turn??
If you've learned to ride a motorcycle after learning to ride a bicycle, this concept of counter-steering is mind blowing at first - you do have to think about what you're doing versus when you're on a pedal bike.
by simply getting your bike into position a bit on left lane you can maneuver sharply to the right. this way is much smoother driving than staying in right lane and the steer hard while leaning to the right then fall on your knees or goes too wide when maneuver.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that anyone who rides bikes competently doesn't steer first, and allow the bike to try to throw you off. That's the fastest way for your face to get personal with the ground.
Cool video. I learned the concept when I got my motorcycle. In the classroom it didn't make sense, but out practicing it all came together. That's how you start to steer a motorcycle, specially a heavy one or when going fast; all the leaning in the world will not get the bike to turn.
This is one of those things where it's like trying to explain how to walk. Once you learn how, and you've been doing it your whole life, you're amazed at how complex it really is. My first real "car" was a motorcycle when I was 16 years old. I watched a video about how you have to "countersteer" in order to turn the direction you wanted to go and I thought I learned something I was doing wrong. Turned out, I had been doing this by instinct since I learned how to ride a bicycle when I was 5. When I started to overthink it, it messed me up. So odd.
It is because you are American
No, it's because you're Vietnamese
Bro i live ine Europe
I cyckle everyday
Peter Nguyen Are you saying Vietnamese people can't live in Europe ?
I know at least 3 local Vietnamese people here in Denmark, that say they are Vietnamese,
but apparently not according to you ?
ajkorras well i don't think so. The Vietnamese i know are very nice people indeed. And not as ignorant ore narrowsighted as you!
Since Vessel comments are even more ignored than YT comments, if you can believe that, I want to repeat my comment here:
Sorry, but this doesn't make sense. Of course you go left if you turn the handlebar left, provided you can keep the bike balancing upright by weightshifting. Which is fairly easy at low speeds. At higher speeds, you initiate a left turn by leaning in to the left, and again, the handlebar going to the left. That you have to apply torque to the handlebar to keep it pointed the right way is obvious. If you wanted to say that you initiate the left lean by turning right, I could buy that, although not necessarily either. But even if you meant to say that, you did not. I for myself like to "swing out" to the right before making a left turn at higher speeds, but thats part increasing the radius to allow higher speeds, part show of.
Franz Reischl You clearly do not understand the concept of exaggerating to help drive home the underlying principles... though I agree that MinutePhysics could have done a better job of explaining that it's all about getting your center of gravity to the side of the bike you want to turn in.
Franz Reischl Exactly, if explained it doesn't make sense, that's why it's called "counter-intuitive". But you do do this.
When you ride a bike right next to the curbstone (like 1cm away), it's actually very hard for you to turn away from it because you subconciously know that if you want to turn away from it, you are first going to have to turn into it, causing a crash.
Franz Reischl Everything you just wrote was how you turn when you first lean but this video was about what happens if you turn the handlebar first. Because if you turn the handlebar left and don't lean left the bike will lean right initiatin a right turn.
fighttothedead Not if you keep upright by weightshifting, as was my first point.
Franz Reischl
That only works with a low velocity and a light bike though. Did you ever drive a motorbike? There it is essential to initiate the turn in the described method.
Or you can lean into the turn before you move the handlebars. It's not essential to counter turn one way prior to turning the other way.
Stuperfluous It is essential and that's what we do every time we turn.
No it isn't, watch how Professional racers take corners on bikes.
They lean and turn the direction they want to go, not turn the opposite and lean in the direction.
You can make the turn either way, but turning the opposite way just slows you down.
Not a-Theist You're wrong. Yes, they aren't turning the opposite way before every corner, but they are applying opposite force to the handlebars to initiate the turn.
This video is merely exaggerating the action.
Non-sense. In order to initiate a lean to one side, all I need do is shift my centre of mass over to one side of the bike's, which I can do all whilst keeping the front wheel straight as an arrow. As soon as the lean is initiated I can steer into the turn. Whilst I need to apply a force against the bike to lean, I do not need to apply a torque about the steering column to do so.
I get the mechanics described in the video but to say that one MUST initially counter-steer is not true.
I agree with Stuperfluous.
I'm just gonna stick with the bike going where I turn the handle
I've never had to countersteer in order to steer a bike. I just lean in the direction I want to turn and gently turn the handlebar in that direction, I never have to turn right and _then_ left in order to make a left turn. For a greater turn, lean further. It's that simple.
To the people who are saying "You can also just lean without steering to initiate the turn". If you did that without any steering input at all you would just tilt the bike in the opposite direction and still have the center of mass right above the wheels.
Even when it feels like you are leaning without steering you are actually steering. It's just that the steering input needed is usually small and since you are already making constant small adjustments to keep the balance it just becomes another one of those except this one shifts your balance slightly off center.
This definitely applies when I'm on my motorcycle and going fairly fast. I don't notice it as much when I'm going slower (both on my bicycle and on my motorcycle).
OK OK The demonstration is exaggerated!! You don't actually have to go in the wrong direction to make a turn, as you turn the bars in the wrong direction the bike starts leaning and once it leans you settle into the turn with the bars in the right direction. Those saying "I just lean to turn" will find they push on the bars as they do so and counter steering without knowing it (when you do no handers you lean the bike and it countersteers itself initially). And yes at really low speed you steer in the direction you want to go.
*****
Then you're just going to slow. The movement is subtle at low speeds,
but it's physically impossible to lean without first moving the bike out
from under you to the opposite side.
superdau I was referring to "too slow" when leaning is not required for turning. It was for the pedants.
***** I really want to put these "expert" bike riders on Destins backwards bikes to show them just how much they really do countersteer
It is intuitive to most people, but not to those who try and analyze on their first ride. In1950 my little brother was miffed that he would not be allowed to ride my first bike until I had learned to ride it. I had worked to get it. He had already ridden our cousin's bike, and I had failed to ride that one at first try, leaving me out of the fun.
It took me a while on my own bike because I tend to think things out, making the mistake illustrated in the first part of the video. He just got on and rode.
The same problem arose for me when I got my first recumbent bike. Balance by weight shift is so much a part of standard bike riding that I had to learn to do the counter-steering into a lean minus the differential pedal pressure I had been using.
Twenty-five years and a trip across the U.S. later on the recumbent make getting on a standard bike now a bit shaky for me still.
Thank you for this clear demonstration. I taught several kids to ride, in a very short period of time, by showing them this not so intuitive process. It also works when you are running. To turn suddenly right, you have to put your left foot out to the side and push off it. Same with the front wheel of a bike. People say they just lean to the right, but that is not possible, if you start out perfectly balanced. Try it. Balance with one foot right in front of the other, so you can't push off to one side. Then try to lean, suddenly, to one side. You just bend in the middle.
I don't turn right by turning left... I turn right by turning right, not left first, just right.
Trini Kid or maybe he’s like literally any person in the world who didn’t watch a minute long video on how to U-Turn.
I've done that my entire childhood, and never noticed it, I thought I was just leaning right or left to turn....
That's makes so much sense
I just fought with an entire shift of my workers about this and everyone said I was wrong. Amazing how the majority is just wrong a lot of the time.
Wait wait wait, i.. i do this, ehmm. Yeah i don't know how to ride a bike anymore
its simple if you want to go right turn left. u want to go left turn right
Or just fucking turn right and lean to the right to go right like all normal human beings do
You cant just lean to one side. Where you pressing against to change your state??
limtd slipdf are you telling me you're driving your bike in empty space?
Look. Physics. If you knew physics you'd not be arguing. If you would like me to explain quickly, ask.
***** Yes exactly. Unless someone pushes you to the side you want to turn, or you are in the turn already.
limtd slipdf Look. Reality. In ideal physics it might be impossible, but in reality it's possible. Btw just because you think you're a physics genius doesn't mean you have to be condescending. Explain to me how this guy gets his bike to turn without steering at all and how he leans to one side without "pressing against anything to change his state": ua-cam.com/video/_SWdCutqSWQ/v-deo.html ? He must be a wizard breaking physics and shit.
While riding in a straight line, use only one hand to pull on one side of the handle bars very lightly. you will notice you DO start to turn in the opposite direction you're pulling. its hard to notice when you are holding the handlebars with 2 hands because its something you've always subconsciously corrected for,
I didn't used to be very interested in physics, but these videos made me love it. Thank you!
For those trying to say "this video is wrong, you just lean in the direction you want to turn" I recommend checking out this video. it actually shows that even with no hands on the handlebar, you still countersteer with your weight.
Most of the video is about motorcycles, but also includes bicycles. Must of the information is the same for both.
The reason most people do not think they countersteer is because it is ingrained into us when we learn and becomes so second nature that its like breathing. The movement is so miniscule that you barely notice it.
One way to think about it, is that you are changing linear motion for circular motion. To keep it simple and without a bunch of big words here. When you ride, you are moving forward, and all force is working to keep that bike straight up and down without any lean to either direction. In order to change that linear motion into circular motion, you have to create an oscillation or a "wobble". In order to start a wobble, you must start small. The countersteering basically creates a small "wobble" in one direction to start the disruption of the linear motion, so that you can use that wobble to break free from the linear motion altogether and turn the direction you want. Because we only need two oscillations or "wobbles" to achieve our goal, we only use two. However, you could continue the "wobble" if you wish.
This "wobble" also works because of centrifugal force. It is a good and a bad force. Without countersteering, centrifugal force would actually cause our bodies to be thrown off the cycle because they want to continue the linear motion. However, by starting the "wobble" you use it to your advantage.
For example: If you want to turn right, you make a small steer to the left which puts centrifugal force on you. When you then steer to the right,that centrifugal force works with you. Initially, that small turn to the left aids you in leaning. As you turn to the left your body wants to continue forward which is now more towards the right side of the cycle than the left, which displaces your weight and body position to be heavier on the right side of the cycle. As you then turn to the right, you are correcting, at least part way, for the small steer to the left and the bike helps you because by you turning to the right you are countering the first turn to the left which the centrifugal force wanted to counter anyways. So, when the centrifugal force aids you, you actually use that addition force to continue turning to the right *past* the straight line that the bike was trying to use force to return to, and you get more power to continue turning, and use your leaning to balance the remaining centrifugal forces.
Another thing is that cars can be subject to the same fates as cyclists who do not countersteer. The reason cars do not need to countersteer is because their center of gravity is so low, that they dont need the shifting of body weight to aid them. However, if a car is going fast enough or tries to "overcompensate" they can roll the vehicle because of the same centrifugal force.
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@@CanadianBoardCrew no Canididian.... you are...
Richard Mason learn to spell then come back
The concept is better explained using a motorcycle rather than a bicycle. Bicycles do not generally go fast enough for counter steering to be obvious enough to most people. Most people simply lean to turn. Where as in a motor cycle, you can clearly demonstrate the "push right go right" or "push left go left" principle. The effect is immediate and obvious.
Yea I was thinking the whole time that when I ride a bike I don't recall ever having to turn the opposite direction to turn the direction I want to. It is usually leaning into the direction I want while simultaneously turning the same way
Absolutely true. There is a critical speed below which counter steering does not work and above which counter steering does work. Motorcycles can attain that critical speed (about 20 MPH or 30KPH) but bicycles generally don't. Watch Keith Code's video "Twist of the Wrist" to see countersteering in action.
Yeah seems so obvious when you have been a rider from a long time you don’t even think about it but if you are in a left turn u push down on the left bar. Just thinking of pressing on the right bar makes me intuitively go, nah that will take me to the other direction. Its just natural i guess.
This is one thing I love about riding bikes... So deep.
Thinking back to the countless times I've made a corner on my bike, it's true... I go towards the outside of the corner before turning into it. I've found that it's the same deal when exiting a turn to begin going straight again - To straighten out after taking a right turn, I go left slightly to straighten out. This physical awareness of why you can turn on a bike really helps with learning how to ride a bike with no hands too, as the same physics apply to doing both things, despite them being quite different.
There are a few different forces at work that all combine to steer (change lean angle of) a bike;
1) Friction between the front wheel and ground as described in the video is by far the most effective (when you have two wheels on the road, i.e. you're not popping a wheelie). Search countersteering for more info.
2) Gravity applying torque once it's unbalanced, like after leaning with your body.
3) Rider inertia when moving your body can also (slightly) alter lean angle.
4) Gyroscopic precession of wheels. This is more the bikes way of stabilising itself than the riders.
I pretty much just lean slightly in the direction I want to go, and that works really well
Smarter everyday anyone?
Greg Buckingham they did work together on this
Greg Buckingham How could he not put a link to Destin's reverse bike video? It's so linked...
AstroBax Counterintuitive UA-cam dynamics
Daniel Sultana sure took them a while to post their side of the video... Lol
The inversed steering trick is something I experimented with on long dull trips. It is only really a thing when you don't touch the handlebar and give it a tap. Otherwise you just lean first.
The handlebars are more for precision adjustments
Absolutely correct, and even more true about motorcycles, which are heavier and also have heavier and faster wheels, so a stronger momentum is needed.
As a motorcyclist, I can tell you this is essential knowledge not only to to navigate corners at speed, but also stay safe. But you would be surprised how many bikers are unaware of this. Push left go left, push right go right.
Even instructors do not know the physics in this and comes with wrong information.
All you've done is convince me that nobody with any affiliation to this channel has ever been on a bike.
And I'm getting really sick of 1/3rd of the videos being commercials.
For those that aren't closed minded, there's a motor cycle video that shows this pretty well. It's by a guy named Keith Code, who started the Calif. Super Bike School. He even modifies a bike with a pointer attached to the steering stem pointing back over the tank. At speed the rider completely takes his foot off one peg, and to be completely honest here, the bike just veres in that direction, not near enough to accomplish an intended turn. He also has other demonstrations which would be valuable for any 2 wheel rider to see.Also counter steering is taught in all Motor Cycle Safety Foundation Classes that approve whether you receive your motor cycle license or not. They have you motor at 20 mph directly at the instructor and he waves which way to swerve to miss him, all done inside a lane of cones. Intention is to prepare you to miss a hazard you're going towards. Also slow speed turning may require you to use opposite body lean to remain upright, can you see that? There's not enough centrificle force to enable both you and the bike to lean thru the turn, so you let the bike lean while you remain in a more upright position.Another point I want to make is when you're moving slow, starting from a stop or any time you're really going slow, you may find it really hard to control your bike, front tire wants to go all over the place and you end up chasing which ever direction it wants to go. I'm sure everyone has experienced this, especially kids when their first learning. The key to smooth everything out and gain directional control is to drag the rear brake. Video; A twist of the Wrist, by Keith Code, it's the motor cyclist bible
i wished they explained counter steering bit more and how everything you do happens without thinking about it and comes out naturally.
From reading a lot of the comments it confirms that people don't grasp the concept of counter-intuitive - even when shown an example.
As a kid I was on the handlebars of many rides, it freaks you out when the rider turns the opposite way and then leans - so this isn't something new to me. But when riding myself, I've never put any thought into it - it just happens.
messianicrogue Agreed. Because movement as a whole is counter-intuitive, even when walking. And it's very hard to imagine it when your logical mind is going, "I'm going to lean left, therefore, everything goes to the left."
I gave an example in a conversation about using office chairs, you know, the one with wheels. When you lean left, the wheels move towards the right from under you, because, you know, science. But it's hard to turn "I BELIEVE left means left" into "I UNDERSTAND left means right", especially without experience, knowledge, or really good logical skills.
Ng Jun Xiang I really loved your office chair example, I'm sitting on one of those now (although I wish it had less friction, for science!) and I had fun with that experiment :D
And you've never ridden a fucking bike
you must be terrible at riding if you turn like that
I grew up riding bikes, and I even had a friend become a professional BMX rider, and I can assure you that I have never seen anyone do this, because you learn very early to "lean" into a turn. Heck you can even steer a bike with no hands, with just your body weight.
I love you, MinutePhysics!
So much science in such a simple action! Brilliant!
I've never turned like that on my bike and I ride my bike absolutely every day.
ParaditeRs You do it without thinking. It's exaggerated in the video for demonstration. The amount of countersteer you apply in everyday riding is minute by comparison.
AngryPrawn I was thinking about that in retrospect, you're probably right. Amusingly, right after I watched this I had to ride my bike somewhere and the entire time I was watching how I was steering. Admittedly, I didn't notice any counter steer, I felt like when I turned I just leaned toward the direction I wanted to turn.
ParaditeRs Don't ever get on a motorcycle then! You will crash when you get above about 60 km/h. It is essential to countersteer in all but the gentlest of turns.
ParaditeRs The example in the video is highly exaggerated. Normal bike riding never looks like this, and the countersteering effect appears minute. What you're probably doing is "leaning with the bike" by which you're probably exerting a small force on the handlebars to the opposite direction of your lean that initiates your turn. It's so natural as to be unnoticeable in general riding, but there has been *TONS* of research on this phenomenon done for motorcycle riding, which works on the same physics but relies on it a lot more because of the higher speeds. Check out some videos on youtube of tests for countersteering that demonstrate how and why it works. :) Even people that do it for years on motorcycles never understand (and often don't believe) the physics initially, but that doesn't make them right and the whole of academic physics wrong.
The amount of people that don't believe this... Wow people can be dim. If you don't believe it ride your bike with no hands and just push your left handle with the tip of your finger and I bet you will end up turning left.
Edited because I mentioned the wrong directions.
I'm going to try that:p
Robert Briggs pushing the left handle is the same as turning the handlebars to the right. what the video is saying is youd have to PULL the left handlebar towards you in order to go right. which is wrong
bentleyboy72 Oops I worded that wrong. No if you push the left handle bar you will go left. I guarantee it.
Robert Briggs I think most people believe this but they know that just leaning the direction you wan to go is easier, coz he is basically saying your bike turns towards where you lean
Joseph Smith you cant just lean though. If you ride your bike with no hands you don't lean the way you want to go. You shift your hips under you to tilt the bike. you turn left to tilt the bike right to turn right.
An interesting note - The force a motorcycle uses to right itself at speed is more than enough to keep you from returning the wheel to the direction you wish to go. Thus we tend to teach people to keep opposite pressure on the bars throughout the turn as if the physics were weird enough already.
Wright Brothers' explanation on this -
"I have asked dozens of bicycle riders how they turn to the left. I have never found a single person who stated all the facts correctly when first asked. They almost invariably said that to turn to the left, they turned the handlebar to the left and as a result made a turn to the left. But on further questioning them, some would agree that they first turned the handlebar a little to the right, and then as the machine inclined to the left, they turned the handlebar to the left and as a result made the circle, inclining inward."
Push to go left, push to go right. That's the mantra I repeat for the first 5 minutes or so every time I get on my motorcycle. I practice it within my lane. Push the left grip to turn left. Push the right grip to turn right.
I was disappointed that this video didn't get into wheel geometry as a function of steering causing lean. It's the same principle that keeps a train centered on the rails. I recall that there is a good article on Wikipedia about it. Something along the lines of two-wheel vehicle dynamics.
This effect is so sublte on bicycles because at the speeds their traveling at and the mass they have, they're just not that stable, and destabilizing them is easy. This allows people to just lean into turns.
On *Motor Bikes* however, the forces are much greater, the bike is much heavier, everything is moving much faster, and at higher speeds you just can not lean the bike. You have to "counter steer" the bike exactly described in this video in order to get the bike out from under you, so you can turn.
The fact is, what MinutePhysics is describing here is a really subtle effect that people riding bicycles are mostly not aware of, which is why we're seeing the confusion. On motor bikes, this is a real thing that you really have to be conscious of.
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I find these bike physics videos the most entertaining thing ever.
For a right leaning bike, the steering automatic turns to the right; if and only if the net weight of the handle lies in the front of the steering axle. Hence, when the steering is straight but leaned right (along with the bike) the steering will swing clockwise to drop down (close to the ground) as a result of gravity causing a clockwise torque on it resulting in the front wheel turning to the right. As a result of which you restore your balance ( i.e. a force towards the left ) which is easily understood as simply a result of your inertia (or) the centrifugal outward force which you SEEM to experience as you are unable to provide the large centripetal force needed for you to stay in the short radius path created by the turning of the front wheel. This is just one reason for the wheel to turn right. Interestingly, the wheels will turn right even if you have a straight handle or don't have a handle at all. The logic comes from the gyroscopic effect ( considered on only the front wheel for simplicity ). Just talking about the conclusion in brief: wheel initially rotates in a plane perpendicular to the road; the bike leaning right applies a a torque on the wheel such that the wheel should also have leaned right ( had it not being rotating ); but the rotation induces the gyroscopic effect whose conclusion says that the rotating body when acted upon by a torque will not have a tendency to rotate/turn in the same direction but it will have a tendency to turn in a direction that lies ahead of the expected direction in the sense of the rotation. Simple example/- a clockwise spinning top/beyblade touch it from the upside gently so that it should tilt/fall towards you, you will find that it will actually tilt towards your left ( this tilt will cause it to tilt on the left of itself ) each time lessening the magnitude of the tilt; so the tilted beyblade will rotate clockwise and stable itself. To learn why it happens Watch the video on GYROSCOPE by VSAUCE. Hence, rotating bike wheel leaning right will turn in a direction that lies ahead of its turning direction. I.e. Instead of the top of the wheel leaning right ( because of the torque ) the front of the wheel ( which is lying ahead of the top in the rotation sense of the wheel ) will turn right .
This was a really interesting video :) It's nice to know what I'm not thinking about because now I can think about it! Good video
Analysis I would like to see:
- Numerous videos on mountain biking preach "bike-body separation". In tight fast cornering, one stands on the pedals, pushes the bike frame to the inside, and one's body weight slightly outwards. By doing so, center of mass of bike+cyclist (with cyclist weighing more than bike) is kept above the point of the wheel contacting the ground, and the wheels do not wash out to the side.
- Road bikers generally do not do this, example GCN channel video on cornering. And watching a typical road bike race, the cyclists keep upper body in the same plane as the bike frame.
Q: why the difference? Is there a sound technical reason why this principle is better in one situation but not the other?
It seems to me that separation would be an even better choice on road bike, given that the tire is narrow and high pressure to minimize rolling resistance, whereas the mountain bike tire has a shape already intended to be very forgiving on a tight turn.
This is very apparent on motorcycles, especially at speeds above 30 mph. This video is correct.
Great video, I'll keep it in mind when I start riding bikes again :-)
I finally found a video to explain my friends countersteering, i tried to tell them that physics will always be right but they couldn't get rid of the fact that turning right actually means turning left
I never would have thought so many people were this passionate about how to turn a bike.
this explains why Smarter Every Day's video where he learned to use a bike that had handlebars that turned opposite to normal had such a hard time.
I understood everything you said, it makes complete sense, I've ridden a bicycle since young, and yet it's still wild to think about. :)
I came back 3 years after I first watched this video because I slid past the turn and crashed because I went to fast after a slight 2m downhill section. Thankfully there was grass and I technically slid sideways rather than crash so I wasn't hurt.
Lesson learned: Don't try to do fast turns the 2nd day of buying a bike.
I never thought about this - nice one :DD
To those who are confused, counter-steering is a gyroscopic effect dependent on the velocity and mass of the bicycle + you.
This effect doesn't happen on car because, when you steer to the right, the left tires are countering the counter-steering. You need to go at a certain speed with bikes in order for the effect to take place
The gyroscopic effect : when you drive a car and turn left, you feel dragged to the right on your seat. Same thing. The moving vehicule has it's velocity going forward, so the initial total force is forward. Lets say the wheel is steered by 10° counterclockwise, then the initial force is 10° off the steer direction, clockwise. The only movement allowed by the bicycle, in the direction of the force, is to lean doww/smack down towards the ground.
Of course, some of the force is transferred to the 10°-turn in time, which alleviates the initial forward force and eventually stabilises in that direction.
So, if you initially turn in the opposite direction you want to go, at a certain speed, the bike will counter-lean where you wanna go. Then, you resume to quickly steer in the direction you want. As the bike is now already in the direction you wish to go, the gyroscopic effect doesn't apply anymore.
TL;DR : Effect related to initial direction of force.
That made lots of sense. Thank you!
We fail to learn this simple phenomenon because we learn to ride a bike young and think: the bars in my hands MUST be turning the bike. It would confuse a child to tell them to lean a bike to turn, so we just let them figure it out on their own by experience. I've been closely watching my turning for the last couple years and i'm now far more confident in turns, especially on the MTB when screwing up can have dire consequences.
I'm reminded of the scene in Cars. However, I don't believe that they correlate that much.
Never noticed, I'll have to test that later.
Interesting. I never really paid attention to how I was steering the bike. Though when moving at really slow speeds I primarily use the handlebars to keep balance. This I think is where I actually notice this consciously. The bike at slow speeds wants to tip over faster. My bike leans to the left, I steer the bike to the right and the opposite for the other direction. The bike quickly reverses the lean once I steer this way and this happens faster then if I try shifting my body weight instead. I don't know when I started doing this. it just happened naturally (and probably pretty early on once I really started riding bikes a lot). So if I'm going really slow this is pretty much how I'm keeping the bike upright.
I see others in the comment section seem to disagree or seem to think they haven't been steering bikes this way. I've been riding a bike 20+ years now (as I don't yet drive and this is my only mode of transportation) so I've become experienced riding bikes I would think. :P
The major factor that this video seems to not mention is speed. Yes you can lean first to start a turn and that is fine and dandy if you are riding fast (and very much so with motorbikes). But the handlebar steering this video describes becomes a bigger factor when you are not going as fast and need to correct the balance of the bike faster. Simply leaning at this point won't do it. You have to actually steer the bike as this video describes to get the bike to go where you want because the bike will begin to tip over at a faster rate then you can fix by just leaning without disrupting your turn and going off balance and possibly falling off your bike. I haven't ridden a motorcycle before so perhaps the rules for them are different.
But I'm just going by how I've been doing things for the past 20 years. I definitely recall that I'm already steering my bike this way as the video describes. The only difference is speed determining if leaning first is priority to handlebar steering. Perhaps at speed I do both simultaneously. Even at speed I might be doing the turn on the handle bars like the video shows, but perhaps because at faster speeds the amount of time I spend doing that is very quick and I don't consciously notice it.
So yeah speed IS the determining factor in how quickly you perform these actions. At faster speeds the adjustments are much smaller because the bike is traveling a greater distance and the wheels can impart more force on the bike. But at slower speeds you have to spend more time doing those movements to achieve the same thing. Perhaps I'll pay closer attention to this next time I have to go out. :P
It's amazing how strongly people will deny doing something simply because they don't think about it. Counter steering on a bike like this is is something you do automatically without realizing it (just how like you might not have noticed I said "...this is is something...")
Wrong. I don’t
Counter steer. I steer normally
@@maalikserebryakov You're just proving my point.
They don't realize it that you actually push your handlebars to initiate a lean and that's basically a counter-steer, you intuitively push your handlebars to the right to lean right, but the bike actually steers left for a very short time before leaning to the right. The effects aren't as pronounced compared to motorcycles but it's definitely there.
When motorcycling through a fast curve and if the bend tightens up on you;
to get sharper steering to avoid running out of road, counter steering, usually unknowingly, moves the contact patch of the front wheel backwards, shortening the wheelbase and tightening up the steering., this also has a tendency to throw the back wheel out next, making it all very entertaining.
Lol I love how the comments are all saying that this is wrong as if MinutePhysics is an unreliable source. It makes complete sense the way he explained it and that's how it works under normal circumstances. Banked turns, moving really fast, and riding with no hands would make it seem like he is wrong, but if you slow everything down, the physics doesn't lie
Drive without hands, push the right handlebar away from you and you will go right. It sounds strange but it's actually true. This is also a "trick" they learn you when you start riding a motorcycle, really helps in some corners.
Even though it's an awkward way to make a turn on a bike physics with bikes are quite fascinating.
My bike is even wireder: I tried the thing you did in the last video but it was unstable and didn't correct itselve (When it's leaning right, it's steers left and falls down).
So in the in the secound phase when I am leaning to the right and making a right turn, I need to apply a slight torque to the right. Am I right?
This is how to quickly get out of the path of obstacles on a motorcycle, when there's no time to lean. To pass the obstacle on the right hand side, push the handlebar with your right hand. A very useful technique to know.
Love it! Very good video!
Never realized this phenomenon until now. Who knew turning on a bike would be so thought provoking
What makes the bike lean is not the fact that the wheel is no longer under the center of gravity, but the gyroscopic effect of the wheel itself. The effect is much more pronounced on motorcycles, which have heavier wheels--when you countersteer on a motorcycle, the bike will turn without the wheel moving significantly in the other direction. Generally you will have to be moving 15 mph or more for this to really take place. Try it sometime--ride straight down the road at about 20 mph, hands off the handlebars if you can. Then just nudge the handlebars slightly in one direction. Does your wheel move out from under the bike before you start to turn in the opposite direction? Not so much.
The bulk of these comments are pretty depressing: people using intuition to attempt to disprove an application of physics that is well-established as being counter-intuitive. Their version of the scientific method is: 1) do an activity, 2) come up with a hypothesis, 3) think back to that activity, pretend it was a controlled experiment, pretend relevant aspects were paid attention to, and declare the hypothesis true.
This video is correct - seriously. If you want more detail, read the wikipedia page called "countersteering." If the fact that you can steer while riding with no hands makes you think this video is wrong, then read the section of that page called "Countersteering by weight shifting." Then go ride your bike and try this stuff out now that you know what to look for. Really pay attention. Assume you are wrong even though it is difficult, because otherwise, how are you going to learn anything?
Someone got a new bike and wants to show it off.
I think I understand this now. Unfortunately already hurt myself pretty bad because of not knowing this. I was being dumb and speeding down a curvy hill while the roads were wet and one turn I got to my bike just wouldn't turn. Luckily I saw some bushes I would crash into if I continued course and mentally braced for impact. My large gear in the front sliced my leg open in two spots all the way to the bone about one inch long and the other an inch and a half long. Needless to say I now have permanent scaring for this. It was the middle of the night though and strangely for some reason, I didn't feel it at all. My guess is that it was due to adrenaline. On the way home I was riding under some street lights and noticed my leg had some blood on it. Didn't have a great view though and thought maybe I just got a couple small cuts. Even after getting in my house and taking care of my bike, still didn't notice pain at all. Finally sat down decided to look at my leg and wow, I finally noticed it and how deep the cuts were. Luckily my girlfriend had butterfly stitches and gause to put on, or I would have had to go to the hospital. I didn't want that because I don't have insurance and can't afford that haha. Wore butterfly stitches and gause there changing them out every so often for a few weeks. Luckily it was enough to hold the skin together during the healing process. Walking for the first few days after hurt a lot. Guess what I'm saying is that I just wish I knew about this before hand.
Its strange how one can intuitively do these things and then feel puzzled about it afterwards. I have never thought about this
Pretty cool.
This means that people learn to initiate a turn one way by making a brief, tiny turn the other way, and we don't even realize we are doing it.
Our "muscle memory" just knows to do it from our experience riding. And, of course, it's really neural pathways that "learn" the technique without our being consciously aware of it.