Why the ROG Ally can't beat the Steam Deck
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- Опубліковано 1 чер 2024
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Why does the Asus ROG Ally struggle to beat the Valve Steam Deck at lower TDP settings, even tho its AMD Ryzen Z1 Extreme is much more powerful than the Van Gogh APU inside the Steam Deck? Let's find out...
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0:00 Intro
0:43 ROG Ally vs Steam Deck Hardware Specs
1:50 AMD Ryzen Z1 Extreme APU
3:01 NordPass
4:20 Custom Design vs off-the-shelf / Van Gogh vs Phoenix
5:41 Chip Design Analysis
10:06 ROG Ally vs Steam Deck TDP Analysis
11:16 Performance Impact
12:54 ROG Ally vs Steam Deck - Which one is better? - Наука та технологія
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There is is also a factor of the operating system. Basically in Linux vs windows scenario Linux always wins in terms of amount resources it needs to run in comparison to windows which also results in better power efficiency because the less resources you use the less power drawn will be. Valve is using SteamOS which current version is based on Arch linux while ROG Ally uses standard windows with all its bloat which will have also Asus bloat included. Not to mention windows and older game compatibility is meh at best and dont get me started on windows updates.
It seems like the Z1 extreme is just the 7840u laptop apu
@@liamconverse8950 It is the whole Z1 Extreme is basically a marketing ploy to make potential customers thing that this is some kinda custom chip when in reality is standard production APU with changed volatges.
The Steam Deck feels more and more like it was designed according to principle that was famously employed by Gunpei Yokoi at Nintendo: "Lateral thinking with withered technology"
Course, using PCIe 3 vs 4 is less extreme then going for monochrome LCDs when color is already common place, but the basic philosophy is comparable.
yeah the gameboy pretty much beted on longer battery duration.
Can you explain that principle to me?
@@Lestibournes it’s squeezing everything out of affordable (usually older) tech for your specific use case. Remove everything that is extraneous and nonessential to your purpose. For a battery powered gaming device you are trying to save every tiny bit of power possible while still providing a fun experience.
While not a direct 1:1 comparison, since Valve basically modified cutting edge (for the time) technology during the Decks development, you can still see how they kept the design philosophy close to heart. I think this philosophy is particularly evident with the trackpads, the performance efficiency at lower TDP, and SteamOS itself.
Still would’ve liked an OLED display tho.. 😅
@@HolyBlowhole thanks
Ive always thought this.
I dont think a SD 2.0 is on the way, as valve is trying to improve the compatibility of steam os for backcatalog of games... Mindlessly improving hardware before optimizing the software is the main problem of pc gaming. And i want to believe steam deck is an effort to show people you can use older hardware. Nintendo has a similar approach, they dont use super powerful hardware and do not do main hardware revisions to their consoles for almost a decade... Also using linux instead of windows is a statement in itself, "not using bloated software so you do not need high hardware". Anyway these are my two cents
The Switch came out 6 years ago.
It's in development but it'll take time.
@@Lestibournes yes, but the SoC the Switch uses, an Nvidia Tegra X1, came out in January 2015. So the internals were already quite outdated from day 1 of release, lol. I think they slightly erred with the memory however. Higher clocked memory gives a significant improvement on the Switch and they could’ve squeezed more out of the SoC if they had done that.
Nintendo has always put more emphasis on the the games than on the hardware. That is the correct strategy, in my opinion.
DX9/10/11 is really not the problem. Proton's DXVK has done an amazing job to getting those titles working. Even reaching out to Devs for help with online play. SD2 is definitely coming, and Dev's should be convinced of it's usefulness.
Now it looks like the VR console will be next. It makes sense that Steam wouldn't want two new expensive hardware products out fighting each other for customers' gaming dollars at the same time.
Most reviews at the moment are “if you use double the power on a more powerful chip gives you more power than the steam deck” I’m glad you delved into the silicone level which demonstrates the care and attention that went into the valve chip 👍
The mockup does a great job conveying just how much die area the Steam Deck devotes to its GPU compared to the Ally. One device is min-maxed for the task of 'portable gaming machine', the other is just a (very good) laptop APU stuffed into a Switch/Steam Deck form factor.
On the other hand, my Switch never actually leaves the house, and I'm sure many other people treat theirs similarly. So as you point out, a more power-hungry device still has its place.
Excellent video --
wow this video really helped explain the biggest "shortcoming" (slower RAM) I thought the Deck had and now makes me appreciate those choices 👍 just wished Valve would have communicated it themselves as gamers always want the latest and greatest even though it might not be in their best interest 🤷♂
This really couldn't be communicated without a good comparison point.
@@mutantmagnet Not to mention right now Valve wins either way, they want more handhelds out there right now they dont need to convince ppl the deck is better since its sold millions already, they just want more x86 handheld out there that can eventually run their Steam OS, the os is what they will try to convince ppl to get in a couple years away from windows.
Very insightful! I would not underestimate the software differences, though. Steam OS has a lot of tweaks even to the Linux kernel to optimize for gaming workloads. I think it’s unlikely Windows has undergone similar optimization for the Ally.
Yeah, I was thinking this too
Steam Deck: Fully custom APU + Fully custom Linux OS
Ally: Off the Shelf APU + Off the shelf Windows + software to slightly tweak power consumption
Valve definitely killed it with Van Gogh. Excited to see what they cook up in their next chip. My personal use case does lean me towards the ally.
The beautiful thing about the Valve using Linux for the SteamDeck is that they could optimize the drivers and kernel for their specific hardware and usecase. This flexibility doesn't exist on Windows.
You can also install Linux just like any PC idiot on the rog ally
In all honesty, for my use case, Valve knocked it out of the park. I love my Asus parts in my PC, but I haven't used it in a long time as the deck is just so fun. It is very interesting what they did to make it happen, custom chips seems to be the future, build for the use case not for general all purpose.
I wish Asus well and hope its successful but I'll definitely be waiting on the deck 2. Touch pads... I need them, plain and simple, without them I will not consider buying.
Phawx also thoroughly tested the Z1 extreme in Ally against the 7840U inside a GPD Max.
7840U manages to handily outperform the Z1E at the same power levels and has a significant delta at lower wattages as well.
It's all related to voltage regulation in the Ally. With proper tuning, it should be able to match the Deck at lower TDPs, outperforming might be a stretch for now.
They need to enable the AI core in the Z1E Chip in the ROG ally
I’d also imagine it’s the regulators, since that seems like something asus is having trouble with atm
There's a serious problem with the unit when it falls behind by 40% compared to 7840U at all power levels in most games. Even falls behind the 6840U at some power levels. 10W 5W are the biggest problems with the Ally and the Z1E.
You explained it really well! Thank you. I hope ROG can improve its performance at 15W!
Karl!!!
Whoa! Karl Rock! didn't expect you to be here in ROG ally video!
ayeee yooo
Wow didn't expect karl to be in this video. When I saw this I was like what the heck😮!
Hey Karl, didn't expect to see you over here.
ASUS probably gave people early access so they can get early feedback. Valve did the same thing. The two companies will compete for our $, which is good for us.
Watch ayeneo go.. ok, time to best this
Valve has proven, like with their games and recent HW (VR), the painstaking process of attention to detail and UX design. The Steam Deck I believe is the TRUE handheld device, where I believe Valve has taken notes from Nintendo with fully utilizing and compromise with HW. The idea of making use of HW while plugged in a handheld is odd to me, it's not a true handheld experience. As you said the Ally lacks to power itself at lower tdp lvls with its increased core count/CUs, and IO.
I've watched the Phawx, and the 7840U and Z1 Extreme while the same, the 7840U handles voltages, freq differently while still within ~10W, the same as the Ally and performing better. Interesting watch, and maybe the Ally could be improved on.
Thinking about it, I am curious how the regular Z1 will handle with fewer 2 cores to power and 4CUs that'll potentially be sufficiently powered at lower wattage. Although the $100 difference in MSRP between this and the extreme is weird. I think if it were priced at $550 it'll be more competitive compared to the deck with a 512GB nvme storage and the better screen.
@@BobDevV That's fair, I completely forgot the mediocrity that was the steam machines and its precursor with the dual trackpads and planted the seeds for proton. Also, holo iso is a great shout, thanks for bringing it to my attention.
Yes I think the regular Z1 is probably destined for the scrap heap. Why launch an inferior powered version of your product a couple of months later when your line up is designed around the most powerful handheld.
@@hgh1727 True, and the MSRP $100 difference is like the 7900 XT vs XTX, it's a play to get you to go for the expensive option unless you don't live in the US
Great video! I am all in on Steam Deck because I price made it easy to take the risk. With how amazing it has been I will not be replacing it until Valve makes something significantly more powerful (keeping those track pads of course)
I finally understand and u made it easy to know actually how different there devices are and what kinda wattage u want to use so now u know where there sweet spots are good video for sure !!
Thanks for showing the performance difference between a custom gaming APU and a general APU.
I have a Steam Deck already and it’s pretty great, waiting for Steam Deck 2 to upgrade 😂
Same oled steam
This is an awesome video. While I suspected the difference was due to the steam deck having a more specialised chip, it was interesting to hear the intricacies and design decisions that likely went into the final build of the APU
I preordered the ally. can't wait to play I'm sure they will update the software and firmware just like steam deck has done over the last year
Congrats! The Phawnx has done some testing, and he believes there's still more headroom for performance
Agree 🎉
When I get my ally I’m going to install a new OS or try to get rid of all the bloatware. I've heard it's confirmed that you can download the armory crate software afterwards so i'd probably be able to increase performance more than stock windows.
You shouldn't expect updates on the ally. After Asus sell their devices, they have no motivation to make updates. Steam want to make the Steamdeck better, because they wan't that people keep playing, so they can sell games on steam. Also Windows 11 on the ally limits the possibilities for upgrades. So better you buy whats you get with the ally and don't expect them to repair bugs.
@@alexh7513 Did you copy and paste this? Nothing original about this comment at all
The goal is long battery life for portability. They should be focusing more on that in future products. If it's just playing at home, gaming laptop exists.
But you can’t even buy a new laptop with a decent apu in it (6800u, 7940hs) for the price of a ally let alone one with a decent dgpu.
Can easily attach it to a power bank to get tons of life while using max power
I checked and in my region a Laptop with 3050(performs the same according to Techpowerup) and a 12500H(4P 8E) costs 100 bucks more.
Gaming on a laptop is horrible in my opinion, people buy these devices because they want a handheld.
YES! #MBison_meme
Great original analysis!/ There have been countless comparisons between both of these but you somehow bring something fresh and original!
I think this is one of my favorite videos you have made so far! Thanks for the insights!
Hugely informative video. Assuming you are correct this is a really excellent explanation of what I have been seeing other creators struggle to grapple with.
I think customizing is a super interesting and often overlooked aspect of hardware design. It's relatively "easy" to design a good all-around product that performs well within common TDP ranges. But as soon as you move towards the extreme, be it very high or ultra low power draw, specialized hardware truly shines.
I hope the ROG Ally will improve its low TDP performance with further firmware and driver updates. But even if it would be able to catch up to the Steam Deck, a simple look at the hardware specs is all you need to realize the amazing work Valve has done with the Van Gogh APU.
The 8 Zen4 cores is a bit overkill for a handheld. Yeah, it's a high performance laptop chip. There's rumors that the Van Gough chip was originally developed for Microsoft Surface but they ended up not using it.
so the APU from the deck use from 4W to 15W and the Rog from 9W to 30W...
what about the rest of the devices?
or that account for the other pieces as well?
I invested heavily in ASUS and they have disappointed me. I will be buying the Steam Deck even though the Ally is better.
Till you get you hands on the deck I absolutely love mine 😎
Lol wanna buy mine? Cause i already ordered my Ally🤷♂️
@@dennardanthony8582 Same! My steam deck has been sitting on a shelf in my closet for the last few months. The steam deck made me realize I want portable pc gaming. It also made me realize how much I took windows compatibility for granted lol.
I learnt today about using FSR on the Steam Deck, it allows for a lower resolution to be used, then lock frame rate at 40 and you can turn the graphics settings up for a game.
The mocked up die analysis explains a lot! I don't really see this kind of analysis much on other channels. You definitely deserve more subs! Come on algorithm....
Any idea if half the cores on the Z1E were to be parked by software or from bios. would the saved amount of power be sent to GPU instead? wouldn't that (theoretically) make it behave closer to VG? I think 99% of Ally user will not use more than the extra 4 CPUs cores it has.
According to The Phawx's rigorous experimentation, they've come to the hilarious conclusion that disabling cores in the 6800U doesn't really save power to the GPU. In fact, it sometimes results in lower performance at the same TDPs. Now, while we haven't tested it on the 7840U, I'd bet my collection of vintage floppy disks that you'll likely witness a similar comedy of errors. So, my friend, it seems like disabling cores won't give you any superpowers, but hey, at least you'll have a good laugh and the same TDPs!
@@Ali-dp6xv this is true. I did an experiment with desktop Ryzen 1700x a few years back. I disabled 4 cores hoping I could overclock the remaining 4 cores to higher clock and lower temps. No clock improvements and no lower temperature 8 cores vs 4 cores
I'll wait for steam deck 2. Thanks for the review.
You do realize you're looking at potentially waiting for close to at least another half a decade for Steam Deck 2, right?
Thanks for the update. 🙏
The Steam Deck has Steam OS and has an optimisation advantage. Where as the Rog Ally has Windows which already has great compatibility. I feel like it would be more of a chore to use Windows on a handheld. I definitely prefer a console ui on handhelds.
Great video. I'm already hyped for next steam deck release with new custom chip.
So that's why Rog Ally struggled against Deck at lower power consumption. Great analysis.
The RoG thrashes the steam deck, the software was behind, but the new drivers gave it a serious boost over the steam deck.
Great video. Would love to see a video comparing laptop and desktop cpu architecture.
It’s bad that this video made me want to get a steam deck now purely from the design considerations.
Update: I bought a Steam Deck and it feels amazing and really well polished, Valve did an amazing job at designing and producing it.
I work from home now, I'm always by an outlet so it'll almost always be plugged in. Given that, what would be the better option so i could play and relax on the couch with my family while they watch tv?
Great video! I don’t see Valve using anything less than maybe a Zen5 or Zen6 on their next gen SteamDeck. I would expect it to still have 4 to 6 CPU cores and 8-10 RDNA GPU Cores.
I think Valve were genius in creating a true custom APU. I also love the analysis by the Phawx. A mother difference I have noted is the impact of using a quad channel memory setup on the Steam Deck and the GDP Win Max 2+ compared to the dual channel memory setup on the ROG Ally.
I can't wait for the next Custom APU from Valve for Steam Deck 2. I think it will be 4C/T Zen 4 and 12CU RDNA3 Lpddr 5-6400 quad channel targeting 1080p 60fps with 30% better better life with the same battery capacity. I love how Valve is managing expectations and not over promising.
Microsoft and Sony have been doing for a long time and Nintendo with NVidia for that matter
@@Futura2500 doesn't take away the genius. All those companies have a long history of making gaming Consoles yet none of them have a Handheld Console to rival the Steam Deck. Valve saw a potential market no one was tapping into. I admire Valve for their contribution to Gaming on Linux as well. Can you imagine moving forward if game developers include Linux as platform they are targeting for each game, the impact that would have. Even if they don't, what Valve have achieved with their Proton layer is short of witchcraft. I love their holistic approach with both active software and hardware development that truly gets what Handheld Gaming in this age is all about. When it comes to AAA gaming on Handhelds and on Linux nobody even comes close to Valve.
Valve already said that they aren't planning on changing the steam decks hardware for a long time. That's a smart move on their side, cause keeping hardware the same will allow for game developers to optimize for steam decks hardware
The Ally was misquoted as dual channel. It's quad channel just like the Deck, 800 MHz per chip versus the deck's 687.5.
The Math: the deck's 5500MTS is 4 channel, 1375 MT/s per channel, which is 687.5 MHz for DDR [*Dual* Data Rate]
Asus isn't running similar chips at 1600 MHz. The teardowns show 4 chips just like the deck and they would need to be doing 1600MHz [3200 MT/s] to be dual channel by the same math to hit 6400 MT/s.
@@pondracek I'm pretty sure the ROG Ally is running a dual channel memory setup. Check your sources and your calculations again.
Deck 2 Custom APU:
* Zen4c - style little cores laid out in a power optimised physical IP cell library.
* Memory on-package using the lowest power HBM variant available at design finalisation time.
* GPU: RDNA 3.5 (a tock design fixing whatever issues made RDNA 3 performance below expectations).
Also, relevant system-wide feature to keep the GPU down-clocked and cool:
* Display: 1920*1200 native, relying on OS support for upscaling from any framebuffer resolution, including dynamic resolution by forcing the application's window to resize to hit TDP and frame time targets in a fake fullscreen windowed mode.
i will own both, i think the ally will be my number 1 device though
It most certainly can beat the Deck . Sold my Deck and picking up the Ally ...
You have answered many questions. Thank you. I think this shows that no firmware/software update will fix the lower TDP performance on the ROG Ally.
Really interesting video, I've never thought about it like that!
Interesting stuff 👍 I plan on using the Ally at 25w and up though so it’s still the way to go for me
It would help if we could disable some CPU cores i have option to undervolt (offset) and set memory speeds/timings. In theory that could be incorporated into Armoury Crate software without need to go into BIOS. That would close the gap between ROG Ally and SteamDeck
This is a fantastic and informative video! Thank you!
I would like a better CPU for the next Steam Deck and a slightly better GPU, maybe being at least 25% faster at the same power.
What I really would like is a Occulink 2 connector that I can hook it up to an eGPU for high end performance.
That or Valve can release Steam OS for everyone to use, but the vendors can have a "extra software features" update button to add in support for things they might add in like eGPU support and whatever else they want to add.
You nailed it, and in an extremely detailed fashion!
Thank you for shedding light on the mystery. I'll hold out for the next Steam Deck. Cheers!
I’m happy with my Steam Deck. I’ll most likely get the steam deck 2 when that releases. Great review btw.
Does the Asus Rog Ally run in Mexico?
Soooo heres my guess. Since the ally has more cores those cores need voltage to operate so at lower wattages power has to be distributed to those cores which may makes them less effective. The steamdeck has less cores soo there may be more voltage to those cores than whats being applied to the ally. I saw asus rog pulse pod cast and they mentioned making it possible to disable cores in the armory crate. If that happens then I guaranteed performance will increase
I would choose the Ally as I need a windows pc for travel. Handheld gaming was the bonus and almost half the price of the laptop i was considering... Already have the Steam Deck.
good choice.
Maybe Asus ROG Ally will get another SKU with Z1 and 720p/800p screen. This could trim loads/power draws and get closer to a more mobile usage oriented device... you know, maybe also some BIOS/firmware/OS updates to default to lower power draws, 720p screen resolution, maybe dynamic core parking akin to AMD's X3D solution to trim the CPU down to 4 or 6 cores... at half the core count and closer to Valve's take on VanGogh's architecture, the rest of the APU may be capable of better utilising power available. Lower screen res plus such tuning features could bolster Ally's use-cases.
And of course, disable by default/remove the useless and yet power impacting RGB lights on the chassis... It’s not adding anything, but it draws precious little mW of energy stored in the battery.
Or Valve updates their Deck with a chip made for
Where have u been all these years! I’ve always wanted a one u in my life to answer so many of my instinctive questions bothering me all the time.
🙏✌️🖖
You Video is truly Impressive how you Explain the APU
Why do people think that it is required for the Ally to beat the Steamdeck on every aspect? Those two can easily coexist and have their own identity and percs...
Let's not forget that the Steamdeck at release was NOT what it is right now. It used to slow down upon opening the fast settings, did not have a profile for each game, no 40hz, no Cryobites tweaking, no homebrew plugins, no GE proton, etc.
It's not crazy to think that seeing a big name pushing windows gaming on handheld will help create the same kind of movement the Deck benefited from. Even if it's not to the same extent Valve did because the Linux community is kinda boss!
Let's wait and see what kind of magic the community and some optimized drivers/software can bring.
Ofc they can coexist, that also my conclusion at the end of the video. In the end, although they look very similar, they are quiet different products.
@@BobDevV I know that Proton existed before the Deck..I just said that the Proton community really helped when it comes to making the SteamDeck what it is today, wether it's the main Proton or GE,etc
As for windows i never said nor implied that the Windows community could help the windows handlheld to the same extent that the linux community did with the deck. I just assumed that, at least, it can help polishing many things while AMD and Asus work on their Drivers and firmwares. Which could bring even better results than those that we already have.
I had many GPD and one Aya Neo, i remember pretty well tweaking the bios, handling drivers and having few tools like tdp switchers, tools for overclocking and undervolting, etc. And obtaining a 15-30% performance gain overall...Everything came from the community and helped squeeze the power of those handheld. A big part of The Phawx's succes is actually related to his work on Windows handhelds...
@@BobDevV There is no need for that much work...
The Ally already has it's own real percs(power, compatibility, screen)... Any plus is cherry on a pretty cool cake which can totally exist along the Deck.
I have the Deck myself and i'm pretty sure the Ally won't make up for Steam Input, or the Deck's pricepoint.
Still, i preorder the Ally because of what it can already do, and it's potential to do even better with existing solutions and probable new ones (+official drivers,etc).
This was such a good video, the differences going on at a silicone level aside, windows will be a mega negative for a handheld with resources in the background too
Steamdeck has over a year's worth of software and firmware updates. All the reviews and comparisons are against the pre-release marketing units of the Ally, so they are not representative of the actual market units. Asus has already said they've fixed a handful of the issues that have been brought to their attention during this marketing phase, and they've also said that more updates are coming via OTA changes. Yes, the Steamdeck is an awesome piece of hardware combined with SteamOS, but the Ally is going to disrupt the market that will only make it better for the consumers. It's an exciting time.
Thank you for the great video and breakdown of the hardware. It is really interesting to see the creativity of Valve and Asus.
The Ally is helping to sustain the handheld market 👍.
Steam Deck plays all the games I need on the Go or even acts as a entertainment hub for my TV.
Or play most games max settings on my PC using my Steam Deck.
It’s kinda like my Steam Deck turned into a Wii U controller 😁.
For me the software also makes the SteamDeck better, Windows can’t suspend games properly for instance, it drains the battery. That’s one reason Valve went with Linux, because they wanted to squeeze as much performance out as they could for as little power as possible.
It's been said million times: windows can suspend game, just turn off hibernate mode. Doing this has no effect on battery.
Another amazing video your chip analysis is on another level. You brought up av512 support for the ally and got me thinking these two handhelds should not be competing with one another. The deck is a switch competitor it only plays games. The ally supports full windows, external gpus and av1 encode/decode. I did not like buy the deck because it’s a huge handheld I wish it was half the size because the chip performance is so good at 10watts. So hopefully that’s what valve releases with next gen. With the ally it was made to cool 30watts so asus should have never let it’s tdp drop under 15watts in demanding games. At the end of the day I see two very different handhelds.
Last thing I’m calling it I believe we will see the cutdown ally chip out perform the deck at all tdps!!!!
For me Ally is a winner, windows OS allows anything you can install on a normal PC to be installed, that includes pirated games for those unable to afford them. Steam deck is tied to your steam account so only purchased games or EMU games.
No contest.
Steam loose out on my cash due to unavailability, I have tried for 3 months to buy one and only option is the 512gb, I wanted the 64gb version which I planned on upgrading myself.
Now the Rog Alley is out it's a no brainer, almost the same price as the current Steam Deck that is available but you a better screen, better CPU and install what you want and not tied to Steam OS and what games you have purchased there.
Shoot,,thats make sense,,thanks for ur explanation,,my heart goes to ally
Yeah, I think most fanboys forget that there are other places to get games (whether that's another store front or pirating). You don't even want to know what a nightmare it was to try to play my own, older, games from discs on the steam deck. I used a program to convert them to isos which are perfectly playable on windows but not at all simple on the steamdeck!
they have both pros and cons! rog ally is power hungry that is why it needs more TDP to play smoothly while SteamDeck consume less battery as much as possible with the help of low TDPs...but in the end it both offers same common goals...play games on the go
Great video!
Nothing replaces a steam deck like nothing re🎉places a switch
You can come close but it takes a lot of tinkering 😅
I have both and love them both but two separate systems
You can make some handheld devices do all both but not very well something will suffer
First off, very well done and insightful. Thank you sir.
Secondly, Steam Deck. One of the prime check boxes to tick with any handheld is battery life. I want to like the ROG Ally more, but what's the point of having access to all that power if I have to be near a wall outlet to enjoy it? I might as well keep gaming on my rig. The Deck destroys all its competition at stupidly low watts, and is much better at letting you pick your battles with the battery. You can limit frames, fine tune TDP number by number, and keep everything on a memory profile per game. The Ally has three modes that jump from one TDP to another, which doesn't let you optimize things your own way, which likely means you'll overshoot battery consumption simply based on how limited the options are.
What's the point of having longer battery life on the deck when I can't play half my game library? At the end of the day, these devices are for playing games and if I can't play what I want there's zero reason to waste money on it. This is coming from someone who has owned the deck since Sept 2022 and has been disappointed that I have to wait for proton updates to play much of my steam library.
@@jollyrancherchick Well, that just depends on where you buy your games from. A great majority of people buy well over half their library just on Steam, so the value of the Steam Deck is prominent in this market. When a company has a lead as heavy as Valve's, they can undermine other PC platforms, and it really won't have a widespread impact. If you have a library that's sizable on other launchers, then obviously the Steam Deck isn't for you. And that really kinda sucks for people like you, because as of right now, there is no device that can translate what Valve did with their custom APU over to a windows machine.
I'm kinda (kinda) in the same boat as you. I have over 200 games on GoG, but I own about double that amount on Steam. Not being able to play most of that GoG library is lame, but I'm gonna have a hell of a good time with the games that I own on Steam.
8 cores at 1GHz should use less power than 4 cores at 2GHz. Is it possible to radically underclock abd undevolt the Ally and use this fact to get better performance per Watt from it tgan from the Deck, at least on multicore synthetic bencharks that scale well like CPU ray tracing?
Thanks for concisely explaining what in my head I can only refer to as “Valves secret sauce” 😅
Also the Steam Deck's RAM runs in Quad Channel configuration which also adds to the performance. Yeah that makes sense why the Steam Deck out performs the Ally at wattages below 15 watts is because the Deck is optimized to run and performed at those wattages unlike the Ally. The only thing that is custom about the chip of the Ally is in name only the rest of it there is nothing custom about the Ally's SOC.
There is also the controllers, looks like the ones in the SteamDeck are much better. On the other hand, the ROG Ally looks very interesting as a portable desktop that you can hook to an USB-C hub
Windows has been getting destroyed by Mac for exactly this reason. The M1 Macbook Air easily has 3x or more the battery life of the next-longest-lasting 14inch laptop. It's ridiculous! I wish we had the Valve APU for Laptops. I'm desperate for a laptop that can run on 2-6W like an M1 can. It's not just "ARM vs x86", it's the wasted 3-4W that was mentioned in this video!
If I wanted to play while plugged in, why would I even be using a portable? Even if I did, I’d simply stream the games from my desktop system. Battery life is therefore a huge consideration for these devices.
Maybe you need a semi-portable system, e.g. because you switch between two homes. Or you use it for your daily commute which means sitting in a train for 1-1.5h, something that would work well with the ROG Ally.
These were my sentiments exactly, although to be fair around the release window of thebsteam deck, its battery life was worse than it is now. But after a year of updates, optimizations and quality of life improvements, its definitely in better shape! So heres to hoping that asus will continue updates and support on this front within its first year to improve performance and quality of life
For fair benchmark they need to delete shader chace folder and not connected to internet so both dont have any shader cache
What you're saying has insane implications for the future. The die space used by the gpu was minimal. If you do another custom soc again with the same gpu focus. We could see Xbox series s performance in a handheld.
A new video?! Merry Christmas to me!
Your videos never cease to amaze me. I recognize your video is largely about power efficiency, but I was in discussion last month, why consoles are often better in actual gaming than pc with some of the latest games. I believe due to balance and efficiency from the game design stage to pc hardware it’s programmed for in comparison to newest consoles. “Purpose Built vs All Purpose”, it’s not just about brute power. Your talk of custom design, balance, i/o, memory processing and bandwidth is translatable to pc gaming ecosystem.
Hardware manufacturers and game devs must establish balance. I believe pc gaming issues are largely due to data I/O and memory bandwidth at the software level. Devs can start by requiring SSD, (ideally NVME) and maybe VRAM rqmnt tiers such as 8Gb - 1080p, 10-16gb 1440p, 20gb+ for 4K. They should quickly adopt DirectX 12 Ultimate featureset, most importantly Direct Storage.
GPU manf. should ensure the VRAM amnt\bandwidth is suitable and balanced with gpu processing power at targeted resolutions. Stop starving powerful gpus with low bandwidth VRAM. PC does so many things well, but it must find a way to address and minimize its weakest links. Rising tide lifts all boats. Stop trying to use brute force and excess in one area to offset design flaws or shortfalls in others. There’s art and elegance to balance and efficiency.
Asus can still make a low power mode with 2-4 cores disabled. ( it might be possible via windows anyway). that should match or exceed the steam deck on battery life ( I alreay have a deck and considering the upgrade).
My Steam Deck plays everything i would ever want to play on the road. AAA games over rated and indie is where its at. and if i want it still plays the bigs games after they optimize for PC anyway
When it comes to community and company backing. No the ROG Ally can not compete. Bout it.
Which is HUGE.
Wow i learned a lot
Great video
Thx for explaining this
Hello High Yield, it's been a while since your last upload. I hope you're doing well and continuing to make consistent uploads. 😁
Don't dwell too much on videos with low view counts; learn from mistakes and move on. 🔥
I am looking forward to Steamdeck 2.
Even though the rog ally is a more basic chip, it works for me. I'm on my tablet right now, connected to an external power brick. So, really, I'll get way more than enough battery life in my normal use case before sitting near a charger, or putting the external brick in a charger. If we got a new custom chip though..... Lawd.... Custom, 6 cores, 16-20 cus should be possible.
my guess it’s the OS, SteamOS using Proton DXVK Translation Layer is MUCH faster than on Windows, that may be why.
I think the 8mb of Infinty Cache on the Steam Deck makes a big difference. Steam Deck has a fully featured RDNA2 GPU. Not even PS5 or Series X has any form of Infinity Cache. In fact, the Deck is the only RDNA2 based GPU (other than P.C GPU'S) to use Infinity Cache. The Phoenix chip doesn't use Infinity Cache and that's why it absolutely needs faster memory to compete. Infinity Cache is a brilliant way of reducing power consumption and bandwidth needs. No idea why no one uses it other than Valve.
What confusing about some people is that they expect these handhelds to perform beyond what current tech allows. Many people I see crapping on the stean deck say that Rog is better due to better graphics or newer tech bur forget that these are handhelds.
There's a disgruntled pattern about Ally "Reviews" going on with these lower tier youtubers who obviously have not had a hands on with the ally itself. They all seem to be "guessing" how bad it is or will be etc etc...
you forgot to mention the trackpads as an advantage for the deck, they improve the experience in certain games not designed to be played with a controller.
another thing to consider is game streaming, contrary to what the Rog Ally presentation said, cloud gaming DO WORK on linux, they implied you need windows for that wich isnt truth at all! in fact microsoft made some patches specifically targeting linux to improve the xcloud experience on it!
if we take into account that cloud gaming wont use the internal hardware too much, steam deck should be better at this use case too, since it probably wont need more than 10 watts to receive/decode an video streaming, you probably can reduce the consumption to 4W and get at least 8 hours of gaming , contrary to the rog ally wich cant go bellow 9w, and may struggle to decode videos if you reduce the clock too much.
trackpads ++
screen aspect ration ----
Never use track-pads or back buttons
I'm still team rog at the moment. I like my steam deck but after having spent years with high refresh rate monitors, 60hz just isn't enough for me most of the time. Sure the AAA titles won't be hitting high fps most of the time but at least you'll still have that option for older titles and lower demanding games.
Biggest criticism for the ally though is that resolution. I think 900p would have been the most ideal, even 720p would have been alright with me for this screen size and then you get the benefit of higher fps. I don't like using anything less than native resolution. 720p on a 720p native screen will always look sharper than 720p on a 1080p one.
Also don't really care about the battery. I mostly use my steam deck when plugged in anyway.
Valve wins on both scenarios just because even if they buy the ROG Ally, a part of these mobile pc gamers will buy games from Steam.
No matter how many competitors we all know that Valve somehow will benefit to it. Now Apple and their M silicons need to play catch up.
Very interesting! Didn't know Valve had done so much of the work on their chip
If Valve is doing something, they are doing it right. I feel like you can see that philosophy in all of their products.
Yep, for me personally battery life matters a lot as Im starting into trekking backpacking and Im also a truck driver all europe. Rog Aly is more powerful at higher wattage but I value more battery duration so steam deck 10 watts mode wins hands down no competition for my specific case scenario
Switch oled has good battery
@@ufcfan3940 even if switch has decent battery (depending on what games are being played) I dont want to buy one as games are very expensive and I like the freedom to dual boot windows 11 from sd card while keeping steam OS on internal storage.
Until there's a giant leap in battery technology it will always be the Achilles heel of all portable gaming. I love my steam deck especially playing diablo 3 and now 4. The ROG ally is definitely an appealing piece especially as a windows platform. It just looks like a power hog and would be more of a benefit hooking it up to a dock versus hand held gaming. If they support the Ally like Vavle 100 percent supports the deck then it will be an interesting path forward for all hand held gaming. But as a deck owner I'll be waiting for the ROG Ally to drop significantly in price over time because the deck was an investment. It would have been cool if Vavle did what they did with the steam machine on dual booting windows and steam OS but hey maybe they'll save it for the steam deck 2 especially faster charging lol
I don't need a super powered modern handheld. I just need something that will play older windows games portable like Kotor, twisted metal, beast wars, and so on.
Maybe emulation of Dreamcast & ps2 but since my 4 year old phone can do that idk