I hope I don't have to put it back on. It always felt like a band aid to me. But if I need to go back to it I still have it. I'm a little nervous to be running without bump stops.
@@DougBugBuilderI think you're going backwards valving the coils. Suspension tuning is already a lot of work. Youve built one of the best perunner Ive ever seen. You can't tune for everything, big jumps and big whoops its impossible. Big air is for the baja racer. Set it up for big whoops and chops that's where your going to be most of time. Find a place with whoops set up a slow speed camera and go threw at different speeds. You'll get a good idea of what you need to do. Take care bro.
Hey man, That's some interesting changes. So hurry up warmer temperature's so you can get out and test. So thanks for sharing ✌️ Peace from Melbourne Australia.
Great to keep the weight down. I thought bypass shocks had little needle valve adjusters so you didn't have to take them apart. There is so much to choose from these day's. I can't wait to take my first drive on my new build. Glad to see your using nitrogen on the recharge.... I'm running 150 psi on my fox reservoir shocks as well.
Hi buddy. I'm happy to see you again working. Interesting testing to you. I'm to under reconstruction with my buggy, I was Rolling over, now I have to rebuild it, redesign things, I'm happy to work to. The thinking for construct it's beautiful, I csn use all my brain neurons 😂😂😂 Wish you all the best
I think the main advantage to not having any valving in the coil over and using the external bypass is the ease of tuning. No need to disassemble the coil over to tune your valving. A coil over can certainly be tuned to provide more than enough compression and rebound control but to tune to certain track conditions the external bypass takes only moments. Regardless I’m sure you’ll once again make something enviable. Good video. Creates good conversation.
Nice build im from Alabama and would love to do a custom ifs to my 1988 s10 4wd . Been watching your vids for a year now, good work im impressed with your build
Thanks! 👍 Funny you mention S10. I had been toying with making a mini stadium style truck for a while. I was going to base it off of an S10 style truck.
In my experience, shock tuners always run a bit of valving in the coilovers to help reduce the work the bypass has to do. This keeps heat down and keeps oils between the 2 more even so you don't fade on just 1 causing unpredictable dampening. Personally, I would not recommend getting rid of your bumpstop, however, I would be running a 2in stroke bumpstop instead. The 4in stroke is really for the rear of a truck where you have a much closer ratio of bumpstop travel to suspension travel. This would save weight as 2in bumpstops are much shorter and you still have the benefit of a bumpstop for the really "oh sh*t" moments. I look at bumpstops as my backup plan for unforeseen circumstances, not something you want to regularly be hitting if that makes sense. So I guess the best thing for you to do is find the valving that works for how hard you want to push the car, then throw the bumpstops back in just for a good backup plan if you get wild! Also, we always run 200psi, and rarely hear of anyone going 150. Last thing, did you setup ground clearance at full bump 2.5in factoring in tire squish? Tires will compress under load 1-2in so if you didn't factor that in you could be slapping your chassis on the ground! Keep the videos coming!
Believe me, I'm nervous to not have the bump, but I'll see how it goes. I like the idea of going with a 2" if I do put them back in though. The chassis will sit with the bump fully compressed, or now the bypass fully compressed and the chassis will be off the ground 2.5". That's how I set the front and rear both up. I'm assuming 2.5" of squish on the tires, any more and I could contact the ground.
I personally would add a set of closed cell foam bumpstops of at least 3" high to have a progressive mechanical bumpstop. That timy rubber ring mounted on the damper now will do nothing on a one-wheeled landing.
Hey I love your projects. I am starting to design my own rear suspension thanks to your great videos. I was just wondering what size CVs you are running, and what sort of travel are you getting out of the rear?
The transaxle side are 930s, the hub side are made for a Toyota Tacoma Hub. They are slightly larger than 930s. Both sides and the axles are made from 300m material, so they should be as strong as possible. It's not uncommon for people to run 934s in a setup like this. I'm getting about 18" of travel. The suspension stops about 2 1/2" before the chassis hits the ground. It'll do 22", but by the time you put on limiting straps and bump stops it's about 18". Which honestly seems to be plenty.
I'm really happy with them. I've used them over some pretty good terrain, and made lots of valving changes with them. I've had them taken apart quite a bit and I've had no issues with them.
you ever considered ORIs? we shaved about 250lbs off our car using them. (switched from triple bypass ADS shocks and coilovers, similar to your setup).
@@DougBugBuilder I'm no bypass tuning wiz, but they worked pretty well the way we received them. I work directly with ORI, so we were inevitably going to run them regardless. My job was to make them work a least as good as the shocks we pulled off, if not better. My honest opinion: They're comparable in performance, but entirely different in concept. To know how to make either one work well, you need to understand how they work, and understand it well. We're still playing with them, trying different configurations and such. We managed to finish an Ultra 4 national race and king of the hammers with them. I will say this. The biggest performance gains come from geometry, not the suspension. The weight saving was a surprise to all of us, being that the ORIs are mostly made out of aluminum and do not run a coil at all.
Why no valving in the C/O? Typically a CO/Bypass pairing is to split high speed and low speed compression roles. A position sensitive shock like a bypass is better suited to handle high speed compression while a CO is better suited for Low speed compression thus the two share duties and distribute the work to the best shock for the job
That upper link was one of my favorite parts of the rear end build. Good by old friend.
I hope I don't have to put it back on. It always felt like a band aid to me.
But if I need to go back to it I still have it. I'm a little nervous to be running without bump stops.
@@DougBugBuilderI think you're going backwards valving the coils. Suspension tuning is already a lot of work.
Youve built one of the best perunner Ive ever seen.
You can't tune for everything, big jumps and big whoops its impossible. Big air is for the baja racer. Set it up for big whoops and chops that's where your going to be most of time.
Find a place with whoops set up a slow speed camera and go threw at different speeds. You'll get a good idea of what you need to do.
Take care bro.
Hey man,
That's some interesting changes.
So hurry up warmer temperature's so you can get out and test.
So thanks for sharing ✌️ Peace from Melbourne Australia.
Hello Kevin, the mornings are still really cold here, and windy!
But hopefully it will get warmer soon.
Peace amigo. ✌
Great to keep the weight down. I thought bypass shocks had little needle valve adjusters so you didn't have to take them apart. There is so much to choose from these day's.
I can't wait to take my first drive on my new build. Glad to see your using nitrogen on the recharge.... I'm running 150 psi on my fox reservoir shocks as well.
Hi buddy.
I'm happy to see you again working.
Interesting testing to you.
I'm to under reconstruction with my buggy, I was Rolling over, now I have to rebuild it, redesign things, I'm happy to work to.
The thinking for construct it's beautiful, I csn use all my brain neurons
😂😂😂
Wish you all the best
Rollover! I hope you're alright.
That's definitely a good time to redesign a few things while you're in there making repairs.
@@DougBugBuilder thanks, i'm ok
I think the main advantage to not having any valving in the coil over and using the external bypass is the ease of tuning. No need to disassemble the coil over to tune your valving. A coil over can certainly be tuned to provide more than enough compression and rebound control but to tune to certain track conditions the external bypass takes only moments. Regardless I’m sure you’ll once again make something enviable. Good video. Creates good conversation.
That's how I was looking at it. I guess it just turns out I needed more valving than I thought.
Nice build im from Alabama and would love to do a custom ifs to my 1988 s10 4wd . Been watching your vids for a year now, good work im impressed with your build
Thanks! 👍
Funny you mention S10. I had been toying with making a mini stadium style truck for a while. I was going to base it off of an S10 style truck.
Excellent as always.
Thanks!
In my experience, shock tuners always run a bit of valving in the coilovers to help reduce the work the bypass has to do. This keeps heat down and keeps oils between the 2 more even so you don't fade on just 1 causing unpredictable dampening. Personally, I would not recommend getting rid of your bumpstop, however, I would be running a 2in stroke bumpstop instead. The 4in stroke is really for the rear of a truck where you have a much closer ratio of bumpstop travel to suspension travel. This would save weight as 2in bumpstops are much shorter and you still have the benefit of a bumpstop for the really "oh sh*t" moments. I look at bumpstops as my backup plan for unforeseen circumstances, not something you want to regularly be hitting if that makes sense. So I guess the best thing for you to do is find the valving that works for how hard you want to push the car, then throw the bumpstops back in just for a good backup plan if you get wild! Also, we always run 200psi, and rarely hear of anyone going 150. Last thing, did you setup ground clearance at full bump 2.5in factoring in tire squish? Tires will compress under load 1-2in so if you didn't factor that in you could be slapping your chassis on the ground! Keep the videos coming!
Believe me, I'm nervous to not have the bump, but I'll see how it goes. I like the idea of going with a 2" if I do put them back in though.
The chassis will sit with the bump fully compressed, or now the bypass fully compressed and the chassis will be off the ground 2.5". That's how I set the front and rear both up. I'm assuming 2.5" of squish on the tires, any more and I could contact the ground.
Agreed. A 2 inch bump stop should be sufficient, once you re-valve everything
💯👏👏evolution is necessary👍
So true!
I personally would add a set of closed cell foam bumpstops of at least 3" high to have a progressive mechanical bumpstop. That timy rubber ring mounted on the damper now will do nothing on a one-wheeled landing.
I'll probably end up with something like that. I was thinking about it while I was setting this up.
Hey I love your projects. I am starting to design my own rear suspension thanks to your great videos. I was just wondering what size CVs you are running, and what sort of travel are you getting out of the rear?
The transaxle side are 930s, the hub side are made for a Toyota Tacoma Hub. They are slightly larger than 930s. Both sides and the axles are made from 300m material, so they should be as strong as possible. It's not uncommon for people to run 934s in a setup like this.
I'm getting about 18" of travel. The suspension stops about 2 1/2" before the chassis hits the ground. It'll do 22", but by the time you put on limiting straps and bump stops it's about 18". Which honestly seems to be plenty.
Thanks!@@DougBugBuilder
Hi doug, how are you, are you having fun with your buggy?
I hope you do
Ive seen much heavier trucks not use bypasses. Even a short phone call with an experienced tuner or geometry guy would get you down a different path.
Thanks for the info. 👍
After running them how do you like the locked shocks???
I'm really happy with them. I've used them over some pretty good terrain, and made lots of valving changes with them. I've had them taken apart quite a bit and I've had no issues with them.
you ever considered ORIs? we shaved about 250lbs off our car using them. (switched from triple bypass ADS shocks and coilovers, similar to your setup).
How was the transition going away from the bypasses?
Losing the springs and using nitrogen is interesting.
@@DougBugBuilder I'm no bypass tuning wiz, but they worked pretty well the way we received them. I work directly with ORI, so we were inevitably going to run them regardless. My job was to make them work a least as good as the shocks we pulled off, if not better. My honest opinion: They're comparable in performance, but entirely different in concept. To know how to make either one work well, you need to understand how they work, and understand it well. We're still playing with them, trying different configurations and such. We managed to finish an Ultra 4 national race and king of the hammers with them. I will say this. The biggest performance gains come from geometry, not the suspension. The weight saving was a surprise to all of us, being that the ORIs are mostly made out of aluminum and do not run a coil at all.
Why no valving in the C/O? Typically a CO/Bypass pairing is to split high speed and low speed compression roles. A position sensitive shock like a bypass is better suited to handle high speed compression while a CO is better suited for Low speed compression thus the two share duties and distribute the work to the best shock for the job
Initially I thought this Baja would just be to light for both. So I was going to do it all with the bypass. Turns out I was wrong. 🤷♂️
@@DougBugBuilder fair enough. Always fun to play around with things and see what works for you
The bump stop is unsprung weight so kinda irrelevant .
Unsprung weight is everything not supported by the suspension. The bump is sprung weight. But I understand what you are saying
@@MiahsBug I said it wrong
So , backwards . Haha
If I don't need it it's dead weight....
If it turns out I needed it them I'm dead meat... 😁