What did you think? Any other mixups you would have dropped in? also you can peep this vid if you want to see what they put in - ua-cam.com/video/V1WkV_XJwlU/v-deo.htmlsi=Pa6mXejCVnTogWnh (also pls subsscribe)
> “Fighting Game Mixups but they ACTUALLY get Increasingly Unfair” > First clip you choose literally isn’t a mixup it’s an unblockable so there’s no guessing wrong/right you just get hit Idk LK you were talking a lot of shit on the original video about stuff that isn’t a mixup but then you immediately place something that is also not a mixup If it’s supposed to be in increasing order of unfairness that’s one thing but you’re putting something that’s entirely outside of the scope of a mixup into the discussion with a mixup
The Miyako mix isn't really mix, but it only works in the left corner due to bugs cause you aren't truly in the corner in the left. But both versions of elbow can be answered with standing shielding
Also, doesn’t mixup imply the person has to make a choice. 50 50 has always been what I have heard everyone describe as a mixup. What I feel you’re showing is “tech”. Feels very much like you’re just baiting the argument when you know your definition is really personal to you and your insisting it is absolute. So, you’re the expert if you say so, but that also means most people are wrong including people using the term before you ever started playing fighting games. When I was growing up sometimes people would literally use the phrase “50 50 mixup”. You win but it’s an awfully pretentious victory.
When Faust in strive gets hitbox mix with k crow in the corner if they are launched in the air. (Aka just do 2s after mix mix mix corner carry) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
The most unfair mixup is saying "don't jump" out loud to your opponent, and then immediately doing a move that hits them as they're jumping. They jump 100% of the time, trust me.
That works for overheads too. I play Ultimax with friend a lot and he never blocks overheads, so now I say “I’m gonna Raging Lion” and then hit him with it even though he was properly warned.
@@ezmoney4598The honest mix is always my favorite playing with friends lmao, nothing like directly stating your intentions and watching them run directly into it. I always tell them they have trust issues after 😂
LK shows us footage of Strive being played on the surface of the sun and asks us "what is happening?" I don't know man I can't see ANYTHING let alone the mix.
jin with the fucking "Am I glad he's frozen in there, and that we're out here,and that he's the sheriff, and that we're frozen out here,and that we're in there, and I just remembered we're out here.What I want to know is, where's the caveman?" ass mix
As soon as I saw this I was thinking "That fucking Piccolo clip better be in here" and I was not disappointed. I love the fucking win pose as if he's going "Learn the matchup."
52:17 No, Trunks! Just because the move is called "Change the Future" doesn't mean you can just shift Bardock around in time and space however you like! There's *rules*!
If we're asking what the "original" mix-up is, it is the Left-Right as seen in Street Fighter II. I didn't have the term mixup in 1991, but I knew this SFII trick. And "if you started with SF4 you are a Boomer?" I played Karate Champ, I must be dead.
I usually think about the high-low mix-ups but I guess that both axes were always present back then Though I would say the left-right is a slightly more advanced form of mix-up
The moment Izayoi appeared I was ready with the "Ain't no one actually blocking this". I wasn't even good with her and I could create layers of "Where is she going?"
the go1 test is so real. it reminds me of the interview with kamone talking about how players like go1 made it hard to balance the universal options for opening up players in dfci because like. they work on average joes but basically NEVER work on him. so it became a question of do you ramp it up or accept that he's going to be an outlier obviously he's not a superhuman who can block everything but it's definitely an interesting situation
The most fucked up mixups are IRL mix-ups. You see/hear a mf churn their stick to DP so you bait it and then they don't do the DP 💀 or you hear someone slam buttons to burst and they don't burst 😭
Lowkey, I ask people if they blocked my wack ass mix up that I just labbed only to tell them after that it was an unblockable that could have beaten by trying something other than blocking.
I think while the chipp clip is definitely not the second craziest mix of the ones in the video, there are much more egregious instances. Top players or even fairly good players can definitely watch that clip and think "I'd consistently block half that shit" but it still has two clips of the airdash FD jump slash which is a very legit mixup depending on the timing of the FD
I think fundamentally, overreactions aside, the thing you run into here is that a lot of people just don't share your definition of "mixup". To many people, probably most, repeatedly attacking someone on the ground with lows/overheads that they need to react to, is something that they'd call a "mixup". Not a particularly strong one, but they'd still call it that.
I mean that would fulfil the definition he gave of mixup, it's two attacks that will hit within a similar frame that you have to guess between, the issue is that most of the time they do not hit in a similar time or there's some other option select
@@lukemacinnes5124 Would BBTAG's original Gordeau/Ruby attack onslaught count as a mixup? Its basically a 4 way guessing game of you trying to block between high/low, and left/right at the same time in one blockstring. The main thing is that while you are getting sandwiched between the 2 characters and they are both attacking you... its visually very hard to see which move is going to hit you/you need to block. But then again, while GO1 never played Blazblue Cross Tag Battle... I doubt he would have ever gotten hit by that mixup. That being said, Gordeau was eventually nerfed and changes to system mechanics made this sandwich effectively non-existant.
@@lukemacinnes5124I think the difference they are getting at is that in LK's framework, a 4 frame low and an 8 frame overhead that can be done from the same position do not count as a mixup because you can option select on defense and cover both. But many players would still call it a mixup because it's unreactable. I think LK's definition is a lot more robust because it draws a line between those things you have a way to cover even if it's not by reacting, and the situations where you truly have to hold the mix and just guess.
i think the thing is, those are mixups to people that don't know how to play vs said characters well. they don't know how to fuzzy every string they do, therefore they are being mixed up because it is effectively the same to them as a frame tight mix. someone like LK with an insane amount of competitive experience wouldn't perceive something like that as such, because its not "real" and is something that has learnable counterplay
I think the definition of a word comes down to whether or not that word accurately communicates an idea. "Mix-up" in my view is anything that could be seen as ambiguous for the defender. This broad definition makes sense because it's just how people use the word. If people use the word that way, then that's the definition. Not all mix-ups are equally good though, it's a spectrum. The strict definition you use for "mix-up" feels more like what would be called "true mix-up" since it can't be safely OSd against. But even a "bad" mix-up like a jump in overhead vs empty jump low (in a slow-paced game like Street Fighter) is still a mix-up.
Great video. One thing I'd like to point out with the Akuma and Skullgirls L/R mixups is the additional layer of exploiting the opponent's preblock. In both of these games, when the hurtbox shrinks to accommodate for the incoming attack, sometimes the attack will proceed to hit crossup. When holding forward to block crossup, however, the attack hits same-side as the hurtbox never changed. These are humanly unblockable/hard-to-blockables where you have to switch guard perfectly or essentially tap guard on the correct frame. Forward momentum is usually always needed to pull these off, of course, but several characters in both games were/are able to consistently take advantage of this. Skullgirls has applied band-aid fixes to certain attacks, but the truth is you can do this with nearly everyone thanks to the simple concept.
I mean you're also fighting Arakune and are already cursed if you are under threat of guard crush bugs, I don't think there's any specific part of that hell you can single out like that.
Nothing warmed my heart faster than to see all the SG clips be at the end of the video in the "just unfair section." When people tell me about the mix in their modern game, I laugh and dust off the ol Skugs copy and boot it up.
I know it isn't your wheelhouse, but really needed some marvel clips. Umvc3 is full of various grimy ones, but stuff like vergil raw S, haggar 236L, doom stuff, or at the very least, a zero sougemnu+jam session mix. For mvc2 you could find a random MSP tutorial, and just play it all out, and that would do the trick, but even more specifically, magneto's high-low,cross-up/non-crossup instant stuff. I think even stuff like iron man, and guard breaks in general probably count too.
CvS2 has a Corner Steal, but only for player 2. - In order for the cross-up to work, the opponent's feet must be facing the corner while their head is facing away from the corner. Certain characters can hop over p1 and steal the corner. It's why we used to switch sides every game in a set.
For like a decade or so I didn't know how important fuzzies are because I heard strong players are good at guessing. At the start I even believed that fuzzy is just a fancy term for randomly switching between high/low guard due to misinformation. I took the concept more seriously when I struggled to mixup floor 9 and 10 players from Strive tower with my Happy Chaos.
Absolutely loooovee this video. I kinda knew about these but seeing all these examples makes it super clear on what each are Also skullgirls is awesome
Here to attened Mix ups 101 with professor LK. Great video, I really learned to appreciate mixups from watching you play more and more and it changed my perception of games a lot and added SO much to my gameplay
4:45 there actually is some secret tekken sauce: The sidestep mixup. some sidesteps have other moves while still allowing a bunch of the normal options,so using your frames to savely sidestep can start a 50/50 mixup. claudios Sidestep 4 or back 1 is a very classical mid low mixup.
The first mixup that really made me go "wow" was way back when I got hit by Dhalsim doing fireball into teleport. Made me into the man I am today. I literally only play characters with projectile setups because of that. Dudley rose in 3S was another that always made me feel fuzzy.
It's funny that you say that that Baiken mixup you gave as an example of collision-box mix-up is supposed to look like a cross-up. I was convinced looking at it that you were going to land in front, and I was totally taken by surprise when Yipes said he thought it was a cross-up. Maybe because I don't play GG, my idea of what a cross-up should look like in that game is "wrong" or something, so I was "right for the wrong reasons" about why the example you gave landed in front.
It didn't look like she was going over visually, but by the distance and angel of movement. By the standards of that game's air dash, that's what should've happened.
Reset is just when u end the combo 'permaturely' for any purpose. U let the opponent land/recover early(usually back to standing instead of the normal knockdown) but you have enough advantage to do whatever u want which leads to mixups. Downside being there is the potential for the opponent to interrupt or escape if they guess right. They can be used for more than just mixups tho like to avoid combo limits or reset combos scaling for more damage since the sequence is no longer a true combo, among other things Idk enough about strive tho. This is just what I understand
So let me see if got it correctly: So for strive it would be: Strike/throw for sol, air dash high land low for Millia, fuzzy guard for Bridget/Bedman, left right for Slayer and well Baiken for corner stealing?
@lordknight it would be cool to see a part 2 of this featuring some smash melee stuff because it is probably the only game that has offensive and defensive mixups DURING combos because of Directional Influence. This is most prevalent in melee by far
The Tekken OS is sidestepping mixups which is the second layer. The second layer is beaten by homing moves or realigning with your opponent by pressing forward or back, then pressing a fast button like jab.
Now I'm just remembering Rakugakids, specifically Darkness for that one projectile forces you to block forward instead of backwards while he's still in front of you. Really need a mugen character of him...
I'd recommend asking a high level player like Anakin, PhiDX, etc., but Teeken 8 mixes are generally Mid/Low, but I've seen some folks consider SS vs Linear or Homing a form of mix as well. There's all of the different options to try and get off the ground vs. trying to keep your opponent on the ground as well.
I fondly think back to MBAACC Miyako whenever corner mixes are a subject, even if the tells have become more apparent over the years. Also, that Izayoi shit is gonna keep me up at nights now...
i would argue that mixups dont necessarily have to have such a close windows to be considered mixups, the read is part of a mixup, in a strike throw you cant react to a throw you have to read it, either by jumping or by teching either way you have to expect it and press before the next attack; and your list of "mixups" are basically strike throw, left right and high low, most of the list are either one of these. strike throw airdash high low instant overhead/fuzzy -> basically a high low exploiting blocking mechanics similar to avoiding crossup protection left right corner steal -> its a left right collision box -> its an ambiguos left right either way broken crossup protection -> left right but what about timing mixups? maybe you are doing a true string or whatever but you delay your timing just enough so they think they can fight back and when they do you do it faster so now they get punished, and maybe hiting an air button with a certain timing is a left vs with another timing a right but they cant really be sure, maybe with a faster timing they think you are going for a high but you actually whiff and go for a low? any way its still a left-right-high-low mixup so what does it matter, maybe they are expecting a certain attack and want to parry so you delay your timing on the string so they miss the window and get punished could be a better example of a timming mixup
Yeah it's obvious they're also cardinal mixups, but those described have very specific contexts and don't follow the traditional conventions of left-rights and high-lows due to the way they break the game (and genre)'s rules.
Honestly, Break The Law should beat burst if it doesn't already and 6K should be made faster than 5D. When Zato is in tournament he is always a treat to watch.
17:10 Wait, do the collision boxes actually touch, or do you just delay the jH so that you have less forward momentum, since empty airdashes are slower than cancelled ones?
Hey, LK, I've noticed throughout this video that you've been pausing and unpausing to show stuff slowly. If you pause the video and use the < or > ( , or . ) keys, you can go through a video frame-by-frame.
your categories are way too restrictive. mixups only count if the two options are within only 2 frames apart? nah, everything's a mixup when youre like me and can neither react nor fuzzy
The thing is, Satsuki can also threaten a command grab if you threaten a shield, making you have to guess if she is going to grab or do a normal 4 way mix
And then Iori just grabs you by the head, switches you to the other side, does a quick combo, does the same thing 2 more times, jumps over you and throws a kick backwards, somehow.
Maybe I'm wrong cuz I haven't played in a minute but I imagine hwoarang has some crazy mix up game. I mean in general Tekken just has twice as many options for each character than any other fighting game, king actually is in the geniuses book of world records as the fighting game character with the longest move list, but to be fair a chunk of that is for his grab combos, which now that I think about it is THAT a mix up since he can do different grab combos from the same starting grab? Probably not since I'm pretty sure you don't have to press the right button before each move, fun thought though.
Long time Zappa main here. IIRC, if you use the dive attack after an airborne dog move, the dive isn't an overhead and should be able to be blocked either way. Many of the second follow up attacks added in +R are nerfed versions of their original move. Granted this is especially hard to know for anyone that isn't a Zappa main. As for the gold burst, I'm pretty sure it's because of the input error on the taunt. I'm pretty sure that KBNova tried to catch them trying to punish the taunt since the dog was finished attacking.
Can't the Leo delay the sweep to hit at the same time as the dust? I don't play Strive but I remember gatlings being hella delayable in that game, so you can just manually delay the faster option to hit at the same time as the slower option. Or are you supposed to react to any change in animation after the c.S and do the fuzzy based on that visual cue? Is that even possible?
24:40 I'm confused. Are you saying that a shimmy is not a mixup, or just this specific moment in Under-Night isn't a mixup? I don't see how a shimmy in general couldn't be a mixup.
This is a more nuanced shimmy where it's really about looking to see what the opponent is doing in blockstun. A shimmy on its own can be a mixup if it's an ambiguous throw range. Like literally one step back or immediate throw can force guesses if done correctly. Under Night has extensive defensive OSes. We can see Clearlamp glow green during the pinwheel then immediately whiff throw. It might have been an OS. It could have been a number of things but this character doesn't have a DP and the chain shift feature wasn't available. So Featherine was free to enforce their will and do psychological warfare. The moment Featherine got the throw, they also won vorpal which grants chain shift. The future implications off that could be like "no you MUST throw tech & shield for real, no OSing for you" and having access to vorpal/chain shift is very strong.
Skullgirls got some real dirt. Like People say it's a refined Marvel vs Capcom, but then they get hit with the nuttiest triple side switch, burst bait, assist covered, have to block within 1-3 frames, with multiple reset points ass mixup.
What did you think? Any other mixups you would have dropped in?
also you can peep this vid if you want to see what they put in - ua-cam.com/video/V1WkV_XJwlU/v-deo.htmlsi=Pa6mXejCVnTogWnh
(also pls subsscribe)
> “Fighting Game Mixups but they ACTUALLY get Increasingly Unfair”
> First clip you choose literally isn’t a mixup it’s an unblockable so there’s no guessing wrong/right you just get hit
Idk LK you were talking a lot of shit on the original video about stuff that isn’t a mixup but then you immediately place something that is also not a mixup
If it’s supposed to be in increasing order of unfairness that’s one thing but you’re putting something that’s entirely outside of the scope of a mixup into the discussion with a mixup
The Miyako mix isn't really mix, but it only works in the left corner due to bugs cause you aren't truly in the corner in the left. But both versions of elbow can be answered with standing shielding
ua-cam.com/video/p8UtX0Xebvg/v-deo.htmlsi=S0JJoc3GJz4h7dTm I would have put this in the video
Also, doesn’t mixup imply the person has to make a choice. 50 50 has always been what I have heard everyone describe as a mixup. What I feel you’re showing is “tech”.
Feels very much like you’re just baiting the argument when you know your definition is really personal to you and your insisting it is absolute. So, you’re the expert if you say so, but that also means most people are wrong including people using the term before you ever started playing fighting games. When I was growing up sometimes people would literally use the phrase “50 50 mixup”. You win but it’s an awfully pretentious victory.
When Faust in strive gets hitbox mix with k crow in the corner if they are launched in the air. (Aka just do 2s after mix mix mix corner carry) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
The most unfair mixup is saying "don't jump" out loud to your opponent, and then immediately doing a move that hits them as they're jumping. They jump 100% of the time, trust me.
That works for overheads too. I play Ultimax with friend a lot and he never blocks overheads, so now I say “I’m gonna Raging Lion” and then hit him with it even though he was properly warned.
i love shouting “LOW” the second i land a heat engager in T8
@@zeywopI say "don't go low" when my opponent has a mix-up on me, and input low parry as I say it. They always go low.
@@ezmoney4598The honest mix is always my favorite playing with friends lmao, nothing like directly stating your intentions and watching them run directly into it. I always tell them they have trust issues after 😂
The talkies are not a mixup but a question of trust
I always do what I say out loud 🥹
LK shows us footage of Strive being played on the surface of the sun and asks us "what is happening?"
I don't know man I can't see ANYTHING let alone the mix.
i’m not blocking that i’m bursting
if i get burst baited im crying
This is perfection in teo comments.
jin with the fucking "Am I glad he's frozen in there, and that we're out here,and that he's the sheriff, and that we're frozen out here,and that we're in there, and I just remembered we're out here.What I want to know is, where's the caveman?" ass mix
zoinks!
Using GO1 as the baseline of whether something counts as a mixup is GOATed
When he said, "Look at the analogue stick," my face did the 1000-yard stare
I honestly thought that F-Shiki was a Melty Blood character.
he is
Same for a while lol
He is
It's like 3 if you want to get technical
Well, it’s three of them and one is a girl.
As soon as I saw this I was thinking "That fucking Piccolo clip better be in here" and I was not disappointed.
I love the fucking win pose as if he's going "Learn the matchup."
Piccolo Vortex is the end-all be-all of mixups
I find it extra funny since it comes from Piccolo.
"DODGE!" *Mangles a child with 4 way mix*
52:17 No, Trunks! Just because the move is called "Change the Future" doesn't mean you can just shift Bardock around in time and space however you like! There's *rules*!
"Screw the rules, I have money!" (pulls out his mom's credit card)
If we're asking what the "original" mix-up is, it is the Left-Right as seen in Street Fighter II. I didn't have the term mixup in 1991, but I knew this SFII trick.
And "if you started with SF4 you are a Boomer?" I played Karate Champ, I must be dead.
I usually think about the high-low mix-ups but I guess that both axes were always present back then
Though I would say the left-right is a slightly more advanced form of mix-up
to this day i cannot block throw tech left rights from boxer
The moment Izayoi appeared I was ready with the "Ain't no one actually blocking this".
I wasn't even good with her and I could create layers of "Where is she going?"
the go1 test is so real.
it reminds me of the interview with kamone talking about how players like go1 made it hard to balance the universal options for opening up players in dfci because like. they work on average joes but basically NEVER work on him. so it became a question of do you ramp it up or accept that he's going to be an outlier
obviously he's not a superhuman who can block everything but it's definitely an interesting situation
what is DFCI
@@ZachStarAttack dengeki bunko fighting climax ignition. Check it on the mizuumi
@@ZachStarAttack Dengeki Bunko: Fighting Climax Ignition. Its a French Bread game.
@@ZachStarAttackDengeki Bunko: Fighting Climax Ignition. Basically another anime fighting game.
Poverty fighting game?
That Jin mixup killed me in real life and wiped my hard drive
The lack of Peacock item drop and Ms. Fortune headless mix disappoints me greatly.
Peacock item drop is a true 50/50 cuz not even peacock knows which side it will hit
I was hoping for pre-change umbrella sqrt. Up to 6 way mix up just cause old ravenous needed it.
Man, I get distracted every single time. You have such a perfect skin. Next video should be a skin routine.
honestly? same. we need the method
I didn’t want to say it but you’re right
Wash + exfoliate 2x a week + moisturizer. Simple!
thank you, ive been thinking the same thing for months at this point
@@lordknightfgcno sunscreen?
The most fucked up mixups are IRL mix-ups. You see/hear a mf churn their stick to DP so you bait it and then they don't do the DP 💀 or you hear someone slam buttons to burst and they don't burst 😭
The keys and buttons on my pad just can’t be quiet, so I’ve started using this technique and it’s kinda working
Lowkey, I ask people if they blocked my wack ass mix up that I just labbed only to tell them after that it was an unblockable that could have beaten by trying something other than blocking.
5th circle of hell for you, I hope you like cinnamon in your hot chocolate
I think while the chipp clip is definitely not the second craziest mix of the ones in the video, there are much more egregious instances. Top players or even fairly good players can definitely watch that clip and think "I'd consistently block half that shit" but it still has two clips of the airdash FD jump slash which is a very legit mixup depending on the timing of the FD
Leading with a fridge sf6 clip is great
@48:00 A gimmick that is too funny even for BlazBlue, scientists thought it was impossible
I think fundamentally, overreactions aside, the thing you run into here is that a lot of people just don't share your definition of "mixup". To many people, probably most, repeatedly attacking someone on the ground with lows/overheads that they need to react to, is something that they'd call a "mixup". Not a particularly strong one, but they'd still call it that.
I mean that would fulfil the definition he gave of mixup, it's two attacks that will hit within a similar frame that you have to guess between, the issue is that most of the time they do not hit in a similar time or there's some other option select
@@lukemacinnes5124 Would BBTAG's original Gordeau/Ruby attack onslaught count as a mixup?
Its basically a 4 way guessing game of you trying to block between high/low, and left/right at the same time in one blockstring. The main thing is that while you are getting sandwiched between the 2 characters and they are both attacking you... its visually very hard to see which move is going to hit you/you need to block.
But then again, while GO1 never played Blazblue Cross Tag Battle... I doubt he would have ever gotten hit by that mixup. That being said, Gordeau was eventually nerfed and changes to system mechanics made this sandwich effectively non-existant.
@@lukemacinnes5124I think the difference they are getting at is that in LK's framework, a 4 frame low and an 8 frame overhead that can be done from the same position do not count as a mixup because you can option select on defense and cover both. But many players would still call it a mixup because it's unreactable. I think LK's definition is a lot more robust because it draws a line between those things you have a way to cover even if it's not by reacting, and the situations where you truly have to hold the mix and just guess.
i think the thing is, those are mixups to people that don't know how to play vs said characters well. they don't know how to fuzzy every string they do, therefore they are being mixed up because it is effectively the same to them as a frame tight mix. someone like LK with an insane amount of competitive experience wouldn't perceive something like that as such, because its not "real" and is something that has learnable counterplay
Brother, Nine is definitely suing Izayoi for copyright infringement after that shit, because that was some FUCKING WITCHCRAFT
I think the definition of a word comes down to whether or not that word accurately communicates an idea. "Mix-up" in my view is anything that could be seen as ambiguous for the defender. This broad definition makes sense because it's just how people use the word. If people use the word that way, then that's the definition. Not all mix-ups are equally good though, it's a spectrum. The strict definition you use for "mix-up" feels more like what would be called "true mix-up" since it can't be safely OSd against. But even a "bad" mix-up like a jump in overhead vs empty jump low (in a slow-paced game like Street Fighter) is still a mix-up.
It's a mix-up if I get hit by it
Great video, very enjoyable to watch, didnt think id get through it in basically one sitting
Wobbled by the fridges
Even the coldest can cook
thank you for uploading the class before the test
I am surprised you did not talk about the dreaded mix up that's actually unfair: The Rollback Mixup 😱
Great video. One thing I'd like to point out with the Akuma and Skullgirls L/R mixups is the additional layer of exploiting the opponent's preblock. In both of these games, when the hurtbox shrinks to accommodate for the incoming attack, sometimes the attack will proceed to hit crossup. When holding forward to block crossup, however, the attack hits same-side as the hurtbox never changed. These are humanly unblockable/hard-to-blockables where you have to switch guard perfectly or essentially tap guard on the correct frame. Forward momentum is usually always needed to pull these off, of course, but several characters in both games were/are able to consistently take advantage of this. Skullgirls has applied band-aid fixes to certain attacks, but the truth is you can do this with nearly everyone thanks to the simple concept.
This shit was godlike. The "did you block this" section was the most engaging part. Master class on content creation in fighting games.
54:54 HIDE YO WIFE! HIDE YO KIDS! THERE BE WITCHERY AFOOT
I would've added arakune's guard crush bug cross ups force the defender to voluntarily remove cross up protection for themselves
I mean you're also fighting Arakune and are already cursed if you are under threat of guard crush bugs, I don't think there's any specific part of that hell you can single out like that.
Nothing warmed my heart faster than to see all the SG clips be at the end of the video in the "just unfair section." When people tell me about the mix in their modern game, I laugh and dust off the ol Skugs copy and boot it up.
There should be a contest at Evo Japan called “Can you break Go1?”
I know it isn't your wheelhouse, but really needed some marvel clips. Umvc3 is full of various grimy ones, but stuff like vergil raw S, haggar 236L, doom stuff, or at the very least, a zero sougemnu+jam session mix.
For mvc2 you could find a random MSP tutorial, and just play it all out, and that would do the trick, but even more specifically, magneto's high-low,cross-up/non-crossup instant stuff. I think even stuff like iron man, and guard breaks in general probably count too.
CvS2 has a Corner Steal, but only for player 2. - In order for the cross-up to work, the opponent's feet must be facing the corner while their head is facing away from the corner. Certain characters can hop over p1 and steal the corner. It's why we used to switch sides every game in a set.
For like a decade or so I didn't know how important fuzzies are because I heard strong players are good at guessing. At the start I even believed that fuzzy is just a fancy term for randomly switching between high/low guard due to misinformation. I took the concept more seriously when I struggled to mixup floor 9 and 10 players from Strive tower with my Happy Chaos.
man your videos are so interesting and entertaining you know how to keep an audience invested
Absolutely loooovee this video. I kinda knew about these but seeing all these examples makes it super clear on what each are
Also skullgirls is awesome
The most insane mixup ever is the one in that GBA piccolo video since they all hit the same frame or really close to the same frame
The last clip
this shantae subway surfers is out of control
me hovering over the last 30 seconds of the vid to make sure i saw the color green over there
lk never disappoints.
Here to attened Mix ups 101 with professor LK. Great video, I really learned to appreciate mixups from watching you play more and more and it changed my perception of games a lot and added SO much to my gameplay
Perfect bonus clip lol. Amazing video
1:34 is it going to be on the exam?
I am delighted!
This is the most millia player video of all time
4:45 there actually is some secret tekken sauce: The sidestep mixup. some sidesteps have other moves while still allowing a bunch of the normal options,so using your frames to savely sidestep can start a 50/50 mixup. claudios Sidestep 4 or back 1 is a very classical mid low mixup.
The first mixup that really made me go "wow" was way back when I got hit by Dhalsim doing fireball into teleport. Made me into the man I am today. I literally only play characters with projectile setups because of that. Dudley rose in 3S was another that always made me feel fuzzy.
I'm glad the piccolo clip was not left out of this
A funny mix is the fact that Izayoi from central fiction just has a move that teleport behind the enemy full screen any height
It's funny that you say that that Baiken mixup you gave as an example of collision-box mix-up is supposed to look like a cross-up. I was convinced looking at it that you were going to land in front, and I was totally taken by surprise when Yipes said he thought it was a cross-up. Maybe because I don't play GG, my idea of what a cross-up should look like in that game is "wrong" or something, so I was "right for the wrong reasons" about why the example you gave landed in front.
It didn't look like she was going over visually, but by the distance and angel of movement. By the standards of that game's air dash, that's what should've happened.
Thank you for giving me Izayoi panic flashbacks.
20:32 I see what you did LK! You cant hide your jokes from me
from the thumbnail I thought this was a new kbash upload, lol
oh my god now i cant unsee it
20:32 what an edit 💀
So whats the difference between a reset and a mix-up? Like in that chipp clip at 25:20 for example
Reset is just when u end the combo 'permaturely' for any purpose. U let the opponent land/recover early(usually back to standing instead of the normal knockdown) but you have enough advantage to do whatever u want which leads to mixups. Downside being there is the potential for the opponent to interrupt or escape if they guess right.
They can be used for more than just mixups tho like to avoid combo limits or reset combos scaling for more damage since the sequence is no longer a true combo, among other things
Idk enough about strive tho. This is just what I understand
izayoi drive j.c in the thumbnail gave me actual war flashbacks holy hell
Shoutout to LK for having the restraint to not make every single clip Phantasma Kokonoe
This is what I've been waiting for!
So let me see if got it correctly: So for strive it would be: Strike/throw for sol, air dash high land low for Millia, fuzzy guard for Bridget/Bedman, left right for Slayer and well Baiken for corner stealing?
@lordknight it would be cool to see a part 2 of this featuring some smash melee stuff because it is probably the only game that has offensive and defensive mixups DURING combos because of Directional Influence. This is most prevalent in melee by far
The Tekken OS is sidestepping mixups which is the second layer. The second layer is beaten by homing moves or realigning with your opponent by pressing forward or back, then pressing a fast button like jab.
I really only blocked the Izayoi one because I stole that shit from SKD when I still played. Love to see it.
You can tell lord knight was a master at PowerPoint presentations
Now I'm just remembering Rakugakids, specifically Darkness for that one projectile forces you to block forward instead of backwards while he's still in front of you. Really need a mugen character of him...
*Skullgirls has cross up protection during blockstun (so during push block as well).
47:27 that's anime villain laughter
Sad that C-Roa corner orb oki wasn’t the prime example of cross-up protection breaking mix, that’s iconic
I'd recommend asking a high level player like Anakin, PhiDX, etc., but Teeken 8 mixes are generally Mid/Low, but I've seen some folks consider SS vs Linear or Homing a form of mix as well. There's all of the different options to try and get off the ground vs. trying to keep your opponent on the ground as well.
I fondly think back to MBAACC Miyako whenever corner mixes are a subject, even if the tells have become more apparent over the years.
Also, that Izayoi shit is gonna keep me up at nights now...
Nah the vending machine doing jab spd was wild😂
Darn good stuff.
i would argue that mixups dont necessarily have to have such a close windows to be considered mixups, the read is part of a mixup, in a strike throw you cant react to a throw you have to read it, either by jumping or by teching either way you have to expect it and press before the next attack; and your list of "mixups" are basically strike throw, left right and high low, most of the list are either one of these.
strike throw
airdash high low
instant overhead/fuzzy -> basically a high low exploiting blocking mechanics similar to avoiding crossup protection
left right
corner steal -> its a left right
collision box -> its an ambiguos left right either way
broken crossup protection -> left right
but what about timing mixups? maybe you are doing a true string or whatever but you delay your timing just enough so they think they can fight back and when they do you do it faster so now they get punished, and maybe hiting an air button with a certain timing is a left vs with another timing a right but they cant really be sure, maybe with a faster timing they think you are going for a high but you actually whiff and go for a low? any way its still a left-right-high-low mixup so what does it matter, maybe they are expecting a certain attack and want to parry so you delay your timing on the string so they miss the window and get punished could be a better example of a timming mixup
Yeah it's obvious they're also cardinal mixups, but those described have very specific contexts and don't follow the traditional conventions of left-rights and high-lows due to the way they break the game (and genre)'s rules.
I need to know how to do that Izayoi mix. PLEASE
Can someone tell song name at 54:30 ?
Really fitting for Izayoi shenanigans btw
The most unfair mix up is when your good character zato is turned into bottom one or two for 400 days and counting
Hold it. Zato deserve it
Honestly, Break The Law should beat burst if it doesn't already and 6K should be made faster than 5D. When Zato is in tournament he is always a treat to watch.
@@giantdinoboy8264Break the law did do that until they nerfed it to not, why you ask? Lol, Lmao
@@АртёмТор-к2юi hate u
@@АртёмТор-к2юu are so mean
11:09 into rage quit, hahaha😂
17:10 Wait, do the collision boxes actually touch, or do you just delay the jH so that you have less forward momentum, since empty airdashes are slower than cancelled ones?
Hey, LK, I've noticed throughout this video that you've been pausing and unpausing to show stuff slowly. If you pause the video and use the < or > ( , or . ) keys, you can go through a video frame-by-frame.
your categories are way too restrictive. mixups only count if the two options are within only 2 frames apart? nah, everything's a mixup when youre like me and can neither react nor fuzzy
AN HOUR OF MIX OH MY HDISC
The thing is, Satsuki can also threaten a command grab if you threaten a shield, making you have to guess if she is going to grab or do a normal 4 way mix
Fsats command grab costs meter and has horrible reward, meaning theyre not going to present that on sandoori.
"normal 4 way mix" is a disgusting sentence
That's fine, if she hits you she bombos you
Man that video is gone now. I miss that video.
And then Iori just grabs you by the head, switches you to the other side, does a quick combo, does the same thing 2 more times, jumps over you and throws a kick backwards, somehow.
One day izanami will feature in lk video but not today
Maybe I'm wrong cuz I haven't played in a minute but I imagine hwoarang has some crazy mix up game. I mean in general Tekken just has twice as many options for each character than any other fighting game, king actually is in the geniuses book of world records as the fighting game character with the longest move list, but to be fair a chunk of that is for his grab combos, which now that I think about it is THAT a mix up since he can do different grab combos from the same starting grab? Probably not since I'm pretty sure you don't have to press the right button before each move, fun thought though.
Long time Zappa main here. IIRC, if you use the dive attack after an airborne dog move, the dive isn't an overhead and should be able to be blocked either way. Many of the second follow up attacks added in +R are nerfed versions of their original move. Granted this is especially hard to know for anyone that isn't a Zappa main. As for the gold burst, I'm pretty sure it's because of the input error on the taunt. I'm pretty sure that KBNova tried to catch them trying to punish the taunt since the dog was finished attacking.
hisoutensoku yukari gap build is evil
I relly like this video pleas make more content in this style
When there's no cross up protection you have to block left-right-left-right sort of?
Can't the Leo delay the sweep to hit at the same time as the dust? I don't play Strive but I remember gatlings being hella delayable in that game, so you can just manually delay the faster option to hit at the same time as the slower option. Or are you supposed to react to any change in animation after the c.S and do the fuzzy based on that visual cue? Is that even possible?
Unfair mix-up was being in Poongko's bracket in 2011.
57:37 if she is in the corner and jin isn't then why isn't jin turned around
24:40 I'm confused. Are you saying that a shimmy is not a mixup, or just this specific moment in Under-Night isn't a mixup?
I don't see how a shimmy in general couldn't be a mixup.
@@killerkonnat is hovering just outside of poke range a mixup?
This is a more nuanced shimmy where it's really about looking to see what the opponent is doing in blockstun.
A shimmy on its own can be a mixup if it's an ambiguous throw range. Like literally one step back or immediate throw can force guesses if done correctly.
Under Night has extensive defensive OSes.
We can see Clearlamp glow green during the pinwheel then immediately whiff throw. It might have been an OS.
It could have been a number of things but this character doesn't have a DP and the chain shift feature wasn't available.
So Featherine was free to enforce their will and do psychological warfare. The moment Featherine got the throw, they also won vorpal which grants chain shift.
The future implications off that could be like "no you MUST throw tech & shield for real, no OSing for you" and having access to vorpal/chain shift is very strong.
Skullgirls got some real dirt. Like People say it's a refined Marvel vs Capcom, but then they get hit with the nuttiest triple side switch, burst bait, assist covered, have to block within 1-3 frames, with multiple reset points ass mixup.
Litchi, Akiha Vermillion, Mitsuru, Filia... i play many of these characters.
I need to learn this stuff, lol. It's literally free real estate for me.
Akuma from tekken 7..needed crossup protection. They tried to do it and screwed everything up lol
I thought the final clip would be the SFV clip of Cody going for Zonk Knuckle and it rolls back to him going for a crossup instead 🙃
LK keeps asking if i blocked that. brother i did not even block the fully charged 5D