Thanks for the free education ... Today I learned of something I've never heard of "quick spool valve" now I gotta educate myself on this item ... I'm glad I haven't bought my turbo part just yet ..this may just be a game changer for me !!!
Great information Richard,I’ve learned more from your test then in 47 yrs of reading and building my own stuff and my buddy’s projects.Your test are among the best there is,I would put you up with Jenkins,Nicholson and Smokey .I understand your test,love the 5.3 ls test the best na or turbo.I got a crazy idea for you a duramax diesel turbo on a 5.3, it has variable vane turbo.I don’t know how you tolerate the wannabes asking dumb questions and motors nobody cares about.I did love the Cadillac 500 test. The little Gm V6s are great and they will run even stock.Had a 3.1 in 92 Corsica and a 90 3.1, I would watch that with interest .Love your Vlogs!!!!
For the Honda D and non vtec B series i mostly saw people running a .63ar turbine. I had a t3t4 .63 on my b18b1 and it was dead till 4500rpm. I switched to a .48ar and the thing lights off whenever you want like a factory turbo. I'm running it at 16psi and I just starts running out of breath at redline so its great if your power goal is 250-300hp.
In terms of response, NA and Turbo cars react to Cam overlap differently as well... The other thing in terms of response, is manifold runner size to the turbo... Yes smaller 1.25" runners to the turbo flange improve response with little to no affect in back pressure up to 800whp on a 4cyl... Morrison Fabrication did an in depth comparison showing this.
@@amandagirl8042 From a practical, financial and reliably standpoint, a v8 would be better. I don't think the LV3 is a garbage. It's essentially an LT1, with 2 cylinders chopped off. The performance shop that did this swap, they already have several turbo v8 swaps in their G-Body cars. They wanted to do a one of one and they can because they have the resources, financial, and fabrication skills to do so. You know man to each is his own.
I looked into this quite a bit. I currently have a turbo lq4 swapped Grand national and considered swapping to the new 4.3L. it is roughly 200 lbs lighter than an iron block LS like the LQ4. The cylinder heads flow and perform similarly to the Gen 5 head. But at the end of the day as mentioned it is actually more work to swap it in than an LS or an LT. There is no off-the-shelf manifold to convert it to port injection. there are no off-the-shelf turbo manifolds like hooker makes for the LS which are great. it's not well established how much horsepower the direct injectors can support even if they were swapped to the LT4 units given that there are only six of them. It does use the same front end accessory drive as the Gen 5 V8 which comes with the same power steering challenges. after spending quite a bit of time considering it I didn't see much point other than the purely emotional reason of having a v6 in the Grand national but then again it's not the v6 that came in it.
LQ4, BTR stage one torque cam/Springs, gt45, diy turbo kit. Budget turbo build for a 4x4 k5 blazer. Thats the plan thanks to You! Thanks for the knowledge sir!
the size of the up pipe going to the turbo on subarus definitely effects response. So on moderate to large sized turbos (for a given engine) it's definitely something that should be considered.
The most interesting thinbgs for me would be seeing what can be done on a completed setup. So modifications wirh different spark timing to help spool, Lean spool, Turbo blankets (Which are said to help spool) aswell as insulation for headers for example. Also Porting manifolds and eshaust housings would be interesting to see. Especially Gasket matching on turbo/manifold and Manifold to head. i see a lot of potential there especially with cheaper parts!
What I've read to be critical to boost response so far is the volume of exhaust manifold pre-turbine that each cylinder can see. If all else is equal this increases the effect of the blowdown pulse, which is basically free energy (pushing the exhaust out doesn't cost much power, but VE changes due to backpressure at overlap certainly does). For example an inline 4 with a 'close coupled' twin scroll turbo might have 6" between valve and turbo flange on the short legs and 12" on the long legs, and each cylinder can only pressurize its own runner plus one more before everything goes through the turbine. If you have a flat 4 with a high mounted turbo, even if twin scroll, you've got 3-4 FOOT manifolds and the turbo isn't as responsive. Compare twin scroll Lancer Evolution vs twin scroll Legacy 4th Gen vs low-mount Legacy 5th Gen/FA20 WRX. The shorter manifold cars have better response even though power and torque peaks are similar. Another thing about twin scroll manifolds is that they avoid 180 degree blowdown on I4's, 120 degree on I6's, and 90 degree blowdown problem on cross-plane V8's, which is generally worth 3-5% VE by itself.
Would be interested in hot side or cold side sizing test - if you haven't built one yet, not a big deal to use go up/down a size if there's a non-trivial win
Few things. First, thanks for this video. I can listen to you talk about motor shit for hours. I listened my whole long ride to work. Next: someone asked about a cutout. You kinda switched gears on that and maybe assumed he was talking about the wastegate. He was talking about a cutout. Which I just put one on my down pipe. Made what I can feel was a pretty noticeable difference. How can I be sure? Well it’ll light the tires up at 70-80 mph with the cutout open. Close it, no tire spin. That’s my scientific test lol. I have some ideas for you. The intercooler pipe test you mentioned, you need to use the same intercooler, so just use one that has an inlet as big as the biggest pipe size. Of course use adapter couplers. Maybe even try staggered sizes. Say the turbo has a 2.5 outlet. Run 2.5 to intercooler. Then on the other side of the intercooler run 3”. Would be interesting to see if there’s any effects. And try it opposite. The air is hot and expanded on the turbo side so it could be bigger, then it’s cooler out of the intercooler, so maybe it’ll have better response with smaller pipe on the engine side? Just some ideas. I have many many more.
I have one I haven’t seen. I used to hear that the v-band inlet turbine housing spool up faster then the regular t4 4 bolt turbine housings. You should do all 3 with the same are v-band vs t4 open vs t4 divided
This was a great discussion! Probably one of the best I've seen you do ever! All those little details that people are talking about are simply about 2%, 3%, 4% gain that's for competitive drag racing if you absolutely positively have to be the fastest and that's your edge. Rod stroke ratio doesn't matter until you're going more than 6,500 RPM.
@@exploranator Dwell time at TDC and friction on cylinder walls have zero effect on power below that. Long rods increase dwell time for complete combustion at high RPM. Friction on the wall with steep rod angle increases drag exponentially at high RPM. Also the forces of inertia want to shoot the pistons through the head. long rods slow down more before reversing direction. Eases the shock going from up to down. That's the dwell.
I know it would be silly as hell but a big bang episode with a 2.5L gen2 Ford Probe engine would be a great video.. The KLDE is a super under-rated motor.
I like what Ferrari did with their 80s F1 turbo car--the 126C2. When the driver shut the throttle, a butterfly valve shut in the turbo compressor intake (cut down on surge at 70 PSI boost?). Then a couple valves opened and admitted air and fuel into the exhaust just before both the turbine inlets, and the resulting blowtorch powered the turbines and kept them spinning. Nice flame effects. Me? I don't race anymore. I just press the gas pedal a little sooner on a twisty road.
Having lighter wheels and BBs will have faster, more linear response while cast wheel, journal bearing turbos will do the opposite but when they do start making boost, the torque/boost hits way harder.
@@okevolutionviii I think that's more a function of the compressor size relative to the engine size and aerodynamics. a bigger wheel will spool slower, and have a bigger hit.
Most of the things that increase horsepower naturally aspirated, do so by increasing the air/fuel mixture through the engine (displacement, cam, heads, intake manifold, etc). Increasing the horsepower this way would also increase the exhaust energy available to spin the turbo. However, increasing the compression ratio increases the horsepower not by increasingly the air/fuel flow through the engine, but by increasing the amount of mechanical energy extracted from burning the same amount of air/fuel. It increases the thermal efficiency of the engine by decreasing the amount of energy being thrown out the exhaust. It seems to me that increasing compression ratio would actually increase the lag? Just from a theoretical point of view, the closest I've ever gotten to a engine dyno is watching you excellent videos :-)
I think if you look at modern turbo engines you will find that the twin-scroll setup is common (BMW N54 engine was twin-turbo and when the N55 came out it was a twin-scroll). This allowed for less weight, less, plumbing, and quicker spooling without sacrificing upper rpm performance. They develop boost extremely early (1+bar at the low 2000 rpm range). I believe someone makes a quick spool valve assembly for the T3 or t4 flange that directs all the airflow to the outer side of the turbine until boost pressure reaches x number and then the valve opens up to allow full flow to both sides. It's all mechanical and quite simple. I believe originally made for Diesel Cummins applications (HX35?), but the Japanese car guys started using them for gas applications. The Y pipe or manifold should not be divided (we are not using the twin scroll to benifit from exhaust pulses in this application). It is simply there to increase velocity before the turbo can generate reasonable boost. In effect cutting the AR in half until boost reaches x number. It would be an easy test on the dyno to get actual numbers and the boost map with and without any other changes than the quick spool valve. As far as variable vane turbos I only have experience with the ones used in VW/Audi diesels. They are complicated and prone to failure (the vanes jamb up). I enjoyed watching your video and learning from a guy with so much knowledge and experience. Keep up the good work.
@@richardholdener1727 Understood. Sizing for intent (build boost at low rpm for a mid HP increase and a flatter torque curve vs same engine designed max torque/hp above 3000 rpm). The title says "lose the lag" and using a twin scroll (not for its inteded purpose of taking advantage of exhaust pulse) and adding a quick spoole valve you could kind of have the best of both worlds (large AR for the 3K and above and building considerable boost at 1800-2200 rpm). Sizing still very important.
Please Do a Step By Step Dyi Blow Throw Carb . Turbo install . Where Lets say U . Buy each parts . off the inter net . I have a Small Block Ford with a Carb . Thank u .
Review the compressor map for the turbo compared to the engine by itself. The turbo has to be above its most efficient point when it's working its hardest. The idea is that when you roll onto the throttle, the turbo goes through its most efficient phase as you spool and max out the system. A pair of 58mm tubos on a 6.0 would be a responsive setup!
Using remotely mounted injector, much the same connection as back pressure sensor, you can inject fuel into your turbo hot side. Ferrari played with this concept on the 488. (Not sure if they implemented) its way more efficient than two-step, as it doesn't heat the valves. Richard could do this on the dyno pretty easy. Maybe diesel injector is better? Obviously its little more technical than that, but its something along those lines. What you think?
Garrett's turbine exhaust flow charts.....I noticed that you can use Borg Warners turbo selector (Match Bot) to produce exhaust flow numbers (lbs/min) which can then be used in the charts. How do you correctly use that data along with the charts when choosing different A/R housings? I assume you would need to chose a housing where all the points fall below the lines(pressure ratio by turbine flow) in the chart? Or does something else factor in? thanks!
From what I read about divided vs undivided turbine housings is the divided supposedly spool a little quicker in a proper setup but I'd imagine there has gotta be some reduced flow from the vane reducing volume of the housing.
I think this just shows you need to put a long runner N/A intake on the 3800 Big Bang whether it’s a series 2 (plastic) or series 3 (aluminum) when you get that point. Love the videos by the way!
Richard, why is controling the wastegate with boost pressure not mensioned? With a 3/4 port controller you would plumb boost pressure to the top of the wastegate diaphragm and keep it shut not allowing any early opening of the gate which happends on "dumb" wastegats. Essentially reaching the boost target earlier since non controlled gates always leak, and more in proportion to the pressure that they see. 10lb spring will be fully open at that pressure sure, but it would start opening long before.
I'd like to see some tests with variable valve timing and tuning it to " kick in" when boost comes in or if it makes more power engaging before or after the turbo comes up on boost.....
Not a comment but rather a question. I noticed you mentioned something about 6 cylinder engines. Looking for some information/feedback for the 3.8 turbocharge v6 custom built setup (8.3:1) for street performance. Possibly a custom cam setup which would raise the operating range far above the stock engine heads and small cam profile. Maybe a fast ramp cam, something that would allow for a lot more mass air flow without the back pressure something that would not have a lot of overlap at higher rpms understanding that duration will increase. And possible turbos for a setup like that. (produce around 800hp while having good turbo response) Any feedback would be appreciated.
Building a 300 HP @ 5,000rpm 4.7 Jeep 6 stroker for my 2,200 pound Crosley drag car. Redline is 5,500. Leave on trans brake at 2,500. Peak torque 300 @ 4,500. What turbo for 500 HP, in case I want to go faster? I watch every video and have learned a great deal. At 79, I'm not too old to learn, haha.
got a challenge build for you. take a 4.8, stroke it with a 3.9 crank. but try to do it with as many oem parts that you can. im trying to build a stroker 4.8 for my yukon, need more torque for this heavy pig. trying to keep the stock 4l60, but i plan on a very mild turbo setup, around 500-600 hp, later on when i get the money. might just rock the oddball 350ls, if i can make it work
@@richardholdener1727 i just think it would be interesting to see what such a boost to cu in would do to a stock motor. do it as a slow build up. first stroker, then headers, then cam
@@richardholdener1727 Not that I found, but I just sent them an email anyway. Just being lazy & hoping for a normal answer without having to wade through any advertising jargon being injected into the answer?
@@staylebutler9135 He does have a video that sorta mentions it, you gotta wade through several to find it though? Not a real detailed explanation though
There are diesels that use a blower/turbo combo but they use a blockoff plate on the intake of the supercharger(making it run in a vacume) and bypasses the it when the turbo comes on boost
So anti lag is air and fuel being lit in the exhaust pre turbo correct? Accomplished by killing spark to a cylinder(or more?). I'm assuming then that as long as the air fuel ratio is correct it will burn amidst the exhaust gas. With a diesel killing spark and getting fresh air and fuel past the combustion chamber isn't really possible. What do you think about propane and compressed air injected into the exhaust manifold for anti lag? I thought about trying to spin the compressor wheel with compressed air aimed right at it as well but you mentioned it didn't work. I have a stock turbo diesel and it's a dead turd until 2500 rpm and boost. I want that fixed without the complexity of adding a supercharger, because I've thought about that for sure I have a m90....
Richard please elaborate on what you mean by big bang in regards to a neon srt4. I own a srt4 and you have piqued my curiosity. EDIT: I just watched your latest video and subsequently your explanation of what a big bang motor is. I don't know if you ever ran the srt4 to find its limit but if not then I can save you some time. The rods will let go on a neon srt4 engine around 400 to 450 hp. Some manage to make it to 500 but they are uncommon.
@Richard Holdener not sure what the TQ would be. Either way, you will window the block. These engines are capable of 1500hp fully built, and by fully built, I mean rods, pistons, head and main studs, and crank strap kit (to strengthen the bedplate mains), ported head, cams. I would really like to see a srt4 max effort video rather than a stock bottom end power video. Blowing up a motor trying to reach 2khp would be a much bigger bang and a much worthier endeavor, in my opinion.
Wondering what you would recommend for an offroad rock buggy 6.0L ls turbo build. Looking for around 800-850hp, high low end torque, and be able to run 91 octane as anything higher is hard to come by where I live. Love your videos and would love to know how you would build a motor for this application. From your videos I'm currently leaning towards a 7875 turbo with .96 a/r, twins may be easier to package though. Would also like to know what cam, and any other info you could provide.
@@richardholdener1727 yes. It gets both trail wheeled and raced on hard core obstacle courses. Right now I have 550hp na ls and it's a bit sluggish out of the hole until after 3500 rpm. So trying to both improve that and add more top end as some of my competitors have 840hp and pull away on the straights
I went from watching Richard's videos and dreaming about swapping an LS in my old truck, yesterday I pulled the trigger on a turbo, Boy I hope I chose well, wanting 700 at the tire( responsive as possible) like those 125,000 Raptors. Have a 6.0 truck Norris Trailblazer SS on the fence about keeping my 317s or going 799 the turbo is a VS GEN1 BILLET S475/83 T4 1.10 should that be about right for 800ish at crank? How about on 91/93 gas with the 317's at that power level.. because if not I might as well add some compression.
I think that exhaust cutout question was referring to having the cutouts post-turbo, not sure if you answered it from that perspective. Basically, how much does exhaust backpressure after the hotside affect spoolup, boost, and exhaust manifold pressure?
if the exhaust is big enough to support the power level-there will be no gains from cut outs-if the exhaust is too small-then there will be gains from increased exhaust flow. Improving the exhaust flow after the turbo is very helpful
@@richardholdener1727 true, lots of moving parts but porsche has been using them for years not sure who else other than dodge on my shelby back in the 90's
Richard, would a couple GT-35's blowing thru a 800cfm Holley on a 306 inch small block Ford with a comp cams extreme energy 274 h with afr 165cc heads be a good choice for street? It will be drag raced occasionally as well.
Also for that other video regarding leaving a stock cam in it and allowing the turbo to make the power. you would have to run more boost to get the same power output correct? and couldn't the more boost have a negative effect on power, like if you live in a hot area and maybe the intercooler is having a hard time? Like running a stock cam 5.3 at 17 psi sounds a lot more dangerous than a cam 5.3 at like 8-10psi.
Banks Performance is trying a blower feeding turbos, maybe you should try it? A roots or screw blower seems to be the choice since you’ve mentioned a centrifugal blower is soft at the bottom
Richard has said he's going to do a compound super-turbo on the Buick 3.8 that he just got. Banks' new video on his super-turbo monster truck engine has shown some problems.
@@rickrack78 Yes, he said that late in the video. He has done marine Duramaxes in the past that had the blower before the turbo. Maybe he wanted to research something different.
@@richardholdener1727 , how well does the blower keep up with the turbos? I can think that the blower’s parasitic drag drops off. Maybe some reed valves that allow bypass air between the two? There was a company back in the 80’s that turbocharged tow/RV type trucks. They added a spacer between the carb/throttle body injection and intake. The spacer had a reed valve between. The turbo inlet was above the reeds and outlet below. When boost came up, it shut the reeds and routed through the turbo. A pretty slick setup for low boost towing.
I'm curious to see a boosted low reving combo. Curious about the Triton V10 with a turbo. How do you turbo a motor like this where it's not ment to rev to the moon but is large displacement? Can I turbo it the same as similar displacement LS? I like that T76 with larger AR. But would it be responsive in a heavy truck?
Thanks for the upload, very instructive. I'm in the process of building a bbm 451. I messed up and ordered a s475. It has an a.r. of 1.32. Do you think a horse power goal of 750 to 850 is feasible. Does my n.a. h.p.need to be kept down to around 400 or will 500 be okay. I'm just wondering because I was going to run trick flow heads but from what I've read they say run just average cast heads. Do you think the s475 will carry power close to 6000 r.p.m......thanks
Just out of curiosity would back pressure help if the wastegate was installed on the hot side of the turbo housing. The reason I ask is cuz I seen this on sloppy mechanics where Matt had welded wastegate off the exhaust housing off the turbo.
I'm gonna clarify what I said. You cannot change the relationship between boost and backpressure at a fixed air mass flow. If you go to the gt45 challenge video with 4.8v454 and look where each engine makes about 410hp and compare the boost to backpressure at those points. If you compare the boost to backpressure of the 454 at about 9psi boost and 4500 on the graph to the 4.8 at 6400 and 8.5psi boost. Those engines are making almost have the same airflow at those rpm points and the turbo has the same working pressure ratio, airflow, and not coincidentally, backpressure. It wouldn't matter what 410hp engine you put that turbo on, running it at 9psi boost will have nearly the same backpressure.
If you want to do twins (parallel), do you just double the power output of the turbo? For instance, would putting two 500 hp turbos give you 1000 hp potential?
I'd be curious of a test of headers vs manifolds in regard to drive pressure. It does seem a bit odd to me that the intake side of the motor behaves so similar NA vs turbo, but the exhaust side doesn't seem to give a flying fuck. One thing I've noticed is that on Subarus which generally have a garbage hot side stock (really poor manifold design) they won't spool til like 3k rpm even though the turbo lights off and peaks early. From a driving perspective it feels really goofy, but that could also be down to how the boost control is mapped. It calls for high boost down low and tapers out aggressively.
@@richardholdener1727 Well yeah, because it's a tiny turbo and they don't want to overspeed it. What I'm saying is that considering that, it's weird that it takes as much rpm as it does before the turbo lights off. Compare that to the more modern WRX with a twin scroll equal length header and they basically spool right off idle.
I would like to know if you took FE log manifolds and reversed them, say two passenger side logs reversed them so the exits are facing forward with a 2.5 crossover pipe and a mount for the turbo on the passenger side and the exit pipe under the passenger side of 4 inches and split it into twin 3 inch pipes into an X and 3 inch pipe to exit in front of the rear wheels. I am thinking about a GT 45to a water intercooler and to a hat on a 750 3310 on a 4.1 bore 3.984 stroke V8 420 ci. What should my hp goal be ? And NA ? I keep grabbing old threads.
It depends on what you mean by things like "stress" and "high/low". All other things being equal both engines wouldn't be making the same power. Unless some other factors where different to compensate which would affect the engine's "stress". A small turbo at "high" boost is usually less efficient than a large turbo at "low" boost (depending on the characteristics of the compressor) as generating higher boost, in addition to usually causing more backpressure and thus pumping losses, has the byproduct of generating more heat which diminishes the charge's oxygen density which means less fuel can be burned and less power generated. If you had two 5L engines, one with a smaller turbo one with a larger turbo, both can make the same power (until you exceed the capacity of the smaller turbo) but the 5L with the smaller turbo will likely need to burn more fuel to make the same power due to it being a less efficient way to compress air - it's proving the same amount of oxygen but it has to work harder, pressurize the air more, to do it.
@@madvtecyo546 Further, a "small" turbo will spool up faster, but run into a performance ceiling before the large turbo. If this ceiling is at or above your power goals, then you are golden.
Hi Richard . My build is 6.0ls sloppy stage two , hooker black heart headers 801bs.inj. Truck manifold . Could you recommend turbo size. Also I am running 40l60e in s-10. Thx.
I read a book by Smokey yunick and he said put the longest rod possible that will fit in the engine. the way I understood it was longer rods make more torque and that translates to hp in higher rpm. torque x rpm is part of the hp equation. it might be a fun video for you to do. take a 350 put 400 rods of 5.5 compared to the 5.7 stock 350 rods and then 6.0 rods and test it to compare them it would be fun to find out.
@@richardholdener1727 according to what I read it was supposed to increase rod to stroke ratio and make more torque. also supposed to decrease piston speed in the bore allowing for more rpm or decrease rod load at higher rpm 5000 to 7000 or more
@Richard how does splitting from one larger turbo to 2 smaller turbos help with boost response and max HP potential? I'd assume the smaller turbos help with boost response, but will it push through the efficiency map of the turbo more easily because it's a smaller turbo?
@@richardholdener1727 I wasn't sure if the smaller turbine having a lower mass in theory, meant that they'd spool faster than a bigger single turbo. But they also only get half of the exhaust flow each. Sounds like a dyno test to me 😀. Two 250hp turbos vs One 500hp turbo
Son had a Vega with a 350 sbc with Lunati race cam, etc set up for drags. I t had 3000 stall,holley strip dominator, etc and was driven daily on the street. Wouldn't idle below 1500, and had low vacuum. changed to Rhoades' hyd lifters and got the idle down to 900, and improved drivability, and gained some vacuum back. Couldn;t you use rhoades lifters to improve spool-up on turbo response?
What I'd like to see on turbos is a comparison of how a choked hot side effects power. I have an N54 powered BMW and an M52B28 with an HX35 on it and I'm struggling to make the power I think I should make on the built M52, lots of people are telling me it's the hot side of the HX35 is too small but I look at the itsy bitsy turbos on the N54 and question why those tiny turbos could make more power than the HX35.
Sorry I missed this live feed. So twin GT45's would double the backpressure capacity of the setup, but does it also double the horsepower potential? I.E. Does a 5.3L LS with twin GT45's = HP capability of ~1200hp? Different tack - We have a 2014 Ram 3500 with the Holset VGT. The actuator has crapped out right around 4000hrs (as expected). Is there a better way to resolve this issue than buying a "rebuilt" (most likely just harvested from the junkyard and tested) replacement or the City Diesel $900 upgraded replacement?
I’m 3 years late with my question but what about twin VSR 67/66/96ar on a 5.3 at 10-1/2 to 1 compression? Would that be a decent window to drive the turbos and make good power?
@@richardholdener1727Hey Richard appreciate the response sir, it’s currently setup for E85 and my goals are 1000hp, the short block is the pro ls kit with 10 over 2cc domes, heads are 220 / 61cc chamber, I purchased the holly high ram and the btr stage 1 turbo cam, but I’m currently not to sure about the cam and intake combo supporting the goals.
Would two GT35s at 12 lbs on a 385 hp 394 ci FE with short headers turned around and the turbo close and with the two turbos how big of an intercooler would I need. The goal is 700 hp and 600 lbs ft . Compression Ratio is 9.5:1 intake is a Holley Street Dominator single plane and 750 Holley rpm peak desired is 6100-6200 , cam 27OS 224@.050 .531 lift 110 LSA and 50 degrees overlap. Head flow 265 cfm. I have this engine in the car now., would widening ring gap at this level? I forget the gaps, but the pistons are 4032 forged that built in 1999. I am basing it on 386 hp though it likely makes 425. Do I need a balance tube after the intercooler?
sorry for the spam as well but sitting here thinking and listening to you, with the exhaust size and turbo response, but you could do your standard turbo kit then simulate a rear turbo set up and put the turbo wayyy back behind the dyno
schrick cams across the pond makes/made a 288/272 cam for the bmw b20m engines , it was meant for turbo setup na was 272/272 sport , 288/288 semi and 302/302 race (high idle) does a 288/272 cam work in a na setup proberly :)
You were just saying that if you increase the compression that the turbos work better but i am being told that i need to reduce compression in order to run turbos or pro charger just to let you know what i have Its a blueprinted 351dart blocked, CHI 3V pro series cleveland headed 438 ci holley efi ,dominator v5 ecu with 13.5 to 1 compression do i need to bring the compression down in order to run a turbo or procharger or am i running a little to much compression it dynoed at 804hp at 6500 rpm on 93 pump gas ,with a 100 shot of nos 93 pump gas 1043 hp at 6500 rpm im torn because i have a good friend who says i have to reduce compression and then people telling me as long as i have the air and fuel mixture right i will have no problem with my compression i have watched so many of you videos that i have a bunch of faith in what you know from experience
Can you throw out a turbo you would recommend for low compression 454 8:1 compression with “towing” cam shaft, is the gt45 still small for this application?
I have a '62 Chevy II, an IFS, T-56 Magnum 6-speed manual transmission, Currie 9" Ford rear end with 4.30:1 twin trac posi, 4-link setup. Looking to build/acquire a 700 hp turbo or TT setup using an LS3 base. Any suggestions for ignition or ECU? I'm new to this, so my question might not make sense... if I swap an LS3 TT into that old car, what electronics would I need to control ignition advance, boost control etc..?
@@richardholdener1727 Thanks. Was planning on an EFI for cold start days (I live at 6,000' elevation where there's lots of snow half the year - and I'm building a daily driver). I guess I'm assuming that EFI offers better cold start... is that a correct assumption? If EFI, would MSD offer a viable solution? Thanks again. Very much appreciated.
I would like to see the Gen 3 Hemi 392 comparison, stock intake, sniper intake and then the edelbrock Hemi intake. Especially under boost on all 3.....????????
Ive been looking into superchargers which is what i prefer but from what ive realized, i dont have SC money. Am i right in assuming that 6 grand minimum is what im looking at for a supercharger?
How much horsepower do you think I'd be pushing if a had an LQ9 with LS3 heads, LS6 high lifter cam, LS3 43lbs injectors, LS3 90MM throttle body, 1¾ long tubes, cold air intake and lq4 intake
I just picked up a 2014 6.2l from a high country pickup I'm having to sleeve the block and I have no clue about the heads that came with it I know they are not the 832. They are rec port heads but one head is damaged. So tell me what you would suggest for this motor. It will be in a street application not drag.
@@richardholdener1727 I dont know much about the 6.2 its newer all the stuff that came with it looks like a 6.0 setup as far as fuel rail and injectors are concerned has rec port heads and I have a trailblazer ss type intake that came with it. I've been told mixed things about the 6.2 This is new territory for me if it was older ls stuff it would be different but this my 1st newer engine. I picked it up for 150 bucks thought it would be worth playing with.
Why is higher compression ratia helping with spool? My understanding is that the power efficiency is going up by raising the compression ratio, the exhaust temperature should actually go down and so the flow on exhaust when more off the power from your fuel is used in the cylinder. Actually thinking about it, when you ad compression ratio you take a fraction of displacement away from the cylinder head, I know from research that the spool time is getting better with higher compression rate, but I just can't get my head around why? All the best and keep up the great work👍
(1) cylinder head volume has no bearing on engine displacement (2) higher compression = higher cylinder fill due to increased suction on intake & scavenge on exhaust = more exhaust flow
What is a good turbo for a honda k24a2 to make about 500wheel hp max. Looking for alot of response since i want to AutoX and track it..G25-660? G30-770?
@@richardholdener1727 yeah like ebay gt45is 600 s475 is xxx, like a buyers guide based on the turbos you use so we can reference to a previous dyno test video.
Way too many turbos out there mate. I'd suggest looking up how to read compressor maps and that way you'll be able to find out what each turbo will produce and a bit more
@@anthonycamillos3719 The answer to the question: "how much time to you spend at X amount of boost" will go a long way towards answering his question of "which turbo to buy" just by looking at the compressor maps. If he is towing a lot up large hills, he will want one that makes a bit higher boost for his combo and is still in the efficiency island. If he daily drives a hot rod and only occasionally goes into higher boost, he will want a turbo sitting happily in the efficiency island while in low boost, and spools up mighty quickly when into higher boost, I think.
Holdener is a legend 🙌🏾
Thanks for the free education ... Today I learned of something I've never heard of "quick spool valve" now I gotta educate myself on this item ... I'm glad I haven't bought my turbo part just yet ..this may just be a game changer for me !!!
The Lancia Delta S4 from the 80' had supercharger and turbo on the 1,8l.
It was a killing machine!
Great information Richard,I’ve learned more from your test then in 47 yrs of reading and building my own stuff and my buddy’s projects.Your test are among the best there is,I would put you up with Jenkins,Nicholson and Smokey .I understand your test,love the 5.3 ls test the best na or turbo.I got a crazy idea for you a duramax diesel turbo on a 5.3, it has variable vane turbo.I don’t know how you tolerate the wannabes asking dumb questions and motors nobody cares about.I did love the Cadillac 500 test. The little Gm V6s are great and they will run even stock.Had a 3.1 in 92 Corsica and a 90 3.1, I would watch that with interest .Love your Vlogs!!!!
THOSE GUYS ARE LEGENDS-I'M MORE OF A KNUCKLEHEAD
Great video! Completely demystified yet another part of all the builds we are trying to put together. Thank you!
For the Honda D and non vtec B series i mostly saw people running a .63ar turbine. I had a t3t4 .63 on my b18b1 and it was dead till 4500rpm. I switched to a .48ar and the thing lights off whenever you want like a factory turbo. I'm running it at 16psi and I just starts running out of breath at redline so its great if your power goal is 250-300hp.
In terms of response, NA and Turbo cars react to Cam overlap differently as well...
The other thing in terms of response, is manifold runner size to the turbo... Yes smaller 1.25" runners to the turbo flange improve response with little to no affect in back pressure up to 800whp on a 4cyl... Morrison Fabrication did an in depth comparison showing this.
"Latest" GM 4.3L is LV3. Jost Performance has swapped one into a Grand National, lots of fabrication work for the lower and upper intake.
what a waste of time put a v8 in it the v6 garbage is just that garbage
@@amandagirl8042 From a practical, financial and reliably standpoint, a v8 would be better. I don't think the LV3 is a garbage. It's essentially an LT1, with 2 cylinders chopped off. The performance shop that did this swap, they already have several turbo v8 swaps in their G-Body cars. They wanted to do a one of one and they can because they have the resources, financial, and fabrication skills to do so. You know man to each is his own.
@@charleslowe522 yep it's a 262 ci engine. Take that divide by 6 then multiply that by 8 equals 348 or 349
I looked into this quite a bit. I currently have a turbo lq4 swapped Grand national and considered swapping to the new 4.3L. it is roughly 200 lbs lighter than an iron block LS like the LQ4. The cylinder heads flow and perform similarly to the Gen 5 head. But at the end of the day as mentioned it is actually more work to swap it in than an LS or an LT. There is no off-the-shelf manifold to convert it to port injection. there are no off-the-shelf turbo manifolds like hooker makes for the LS which are great. it's not well established how much horsepower the direct injectors can support even if they were swapped to the LT4 units given that there are only six of them. It does use the same front end accessory drive as the Gen 5 V8 which comes with the same power steering challenges. after spending quite a bit of time considering it I didn't see much point other than the purely emotional reason of having a v6 in the Grand national but then again it's not the v6 that came in it.
What I usually do is: hybrid or garrett GT style turbo, stock or RV cam, rising boost curve, small intercooler and BIG downpipe.
Works just fine.
LQ4, BTR stage one torque cam/Springs, gt45, diy turbo kit. Budget turbo build for a 4x4 k5 blazer. Thats the plan thanks to You! Thanks for the knowledge sir!
the size of the up pipe going to the turbo on subarus definitely effects response. So on moderate to large sized turbos (for a given engine) it's definitely something that should be considered.
The most interesting thinbgs for me would be seeing what can be done on a completed setup. So modifications wirh different spark timing to help spool, Lean spool, Turbo blankets (Which are said to help spool) aswell as insulation for headers for example. Also Porting manifolds and eshaust housings would be interesting to see. Especially Gasket matching on turbo/manifold and Manifold to head. i see a lot of potential there especially with cheaper parts!
What I've read to be critical to boost response so far is the volume of exhaust manifold pre-turbine that each cylinder can see. If all else is equal this increases the effect of the blowdown pulse, which is basically free energy (pushing the exhaust out doesn't cost much power, but VE changes due to backpressure at overlap certainly does).
For example an inline 4 with a 'close coupled' twin scroll turbo might have 6" between valve and turbo flange on the short legs and 12" on the long legs, and each cylinder can only pressurize its own runner plus one more before everything goes through the turbine. If you have a flat 4 with a high mounted turbo, even if twin scroll, you've got 3-4 FOOT manifolds and the turbo isn't as responsive. Compare twin scroll Lancer Evolution vs twin scroll Legacy 4th Gen vs low-mount Legacy 5th Gen/FA20 WRX. The shorter manifold cars have better response even though power and torque peaks are similar.
Another thing about twin scroll manifolds is that they avoid 180 degree blowdown on I4's, 120 degree on I6's, and 90 degree blowdown problem on cross-plane V8's, which is generally worth 3-5% VE by itself.
Would be interested in hot side or cold side sizing test - if you haven't built one yet, not a big deal to use go up/down a size if there's a non-trivial win
Nice Video Richard, lots of very good examples in your presentation Tom V
Glad you enjoyed it
Check out Banks' latest video on his super turbo monster truck motor, he's discovered issues blowing through the screw style whipple super charger.
Until he backed off alittle
Few things. First, thanks for this video. I can listen to you talk about motor shit for hours. I listened my whole long ride to work.
Next: someone asked about a cutout. You kinda switched gears on that and maybe assumed he was talking about the wastegate. He was talking about a cutout. Which I just put one on my down pipe. Made what I can feel was a pretty noticeable difference. How can I be sure? Well it’ll light the tires up at 70-80 mph with the cutout open. Close it, no tire spin. That’s my scientific test lol.
I have some ideas for you.
The intercooler pipe test you mentioned, you need to use the same intercooler, so just use one that has an inlet as big as the biggest pipe size. Of course use adapter couplers. Maybe even try staggered sizes. Say the turbo has a 2.5 outlet. Run 2.5 to intercooler. Then on the other side of the intercooler run 3”. Would be interesting to see if there’s any effects. And try it opposite. The air is hot and expanded on the turbo side so it could be bigger, then it’s cooler out of the intercooler, so maybe it’ll have better response with smaller pipe on the engine side? Just some ideas. I have many many more.
EXHAUST CUT OUT? IF YOU INCREASE EXHAUST FLOW AFTER THE TURBO-IT CAN HELP
@@richardholdener1727 yes, I know. But a question you were answering....you kinda got sidetracked. Lol.
I have one I haven’t seen. I used to hear that the v-band inlet turbine housing spool up faster then the regular t4 4 bolt turbine housings. You should do all 3 with the same are v-band vs t4 open vs t4 divided
@@mattsautoservice3553 that's what I always say. So when I went to comment I was surprised to see you had beat me to it! P !
This is a great chat time. Thanks Richard.
This was a great discussion! Probably one of the best I've seen you do ever! All those little details that people are talking about are simply about 2%, 3%, 4% gain that's for competitive drag racing if you absolutely positively have to be the fastest and that's your edge. Rod stroke ratio doesn't matter until you're going more than 6,500 RPM.
Why do you say that?
@@exploranator Dwell time at TDC and friction on cylinder walls have zero effect on power below that. Long rods increase dwell time for complete combustion at high RPM. Friction on the wall with steep rod angle increases drag exponentially at high RPM. Also the forces of inertia want to shoot the pistons through the head. long rods slow down more before reversing direction. Eases the shock going from up to down. That's the dwell.
I know it would be silly as hell but a big bang episode with a 2.5L gen2 Ford Probe engine would be a great video.. The KLDE is a super under-rated motor.
I like what Ferrari did with their 80s F1 turbo car--the 126C2.
When the driver shut the throttle, a butterfly valve shut in the turbo compressor intake (cut down on surge at 70 PSI boost?). Then a couple valves opened and admitted air and fuel into the exhaust just before both the turbine inlets, and the resulting blowtorch powered the turbines and kept them spinning. Nice flame effects.
Me? I don't race anymore.
I just press the gas pedal a little sooner on a twisty road.
ANTI LAG-THEY ALSO HAD SPRAK PLUGS IN THE EXHUAST AND DUMPED FUEL
Dou you see much value in billet wheels, ball bearing etc?
Having lighter wheels and BBs will have faster, more linear response while cast wheel, journal bearing turbos will do the opposite but when they do start making boost, the torque/boost hits way harder.
0h99hi9
I’m pretty sure cast spools faster than billet. Cast is lighter. Billet can handle higher pressures
@@okevolutionviii one can argue it "hits harder" because its less responsive
@@okevolutionviii I think that's more a function of the compressor size relative to the engine size and aerodynamics. a bigger wheel will spool slower, and have a bigger hit.
From experience...
Get a good exhaust.
Get an EFR turbo from borg warner.. twinscroll.
Get a good tune...
Done...lol
Most of the things that increase horsepower naturally aspirated, do so by increasing the air/fuel mixture through the engine (displacement, cam, heads, intake manifold, etc). Increasing the horsepower this way would also increase the exhaust energy available to spin the turbo. However, increasing the compression ratio increases the horsepower not by increasingly the air/fuel flow through the engine, but by increasing the amount of mechanical energy extracted from burning the same amount of air/fuel. It increases the thermal efficiency of the engine by decreasing the amount of energy being thrown out the exhaust. It seems to me that increasing compression ratio would actually increase the lag? Just from a theoretical point of view, the closest I've ever gotten to a engine dyno is watching you excellent videos :-)
Why would more compression increase lag? That makes no sense 🤓
I think if you look at modern turbo engines you will find that the twin-scroll setup is common (BMW N54 engine was twin-turbo and when the N55 came out it was a twin-scroll). This allowed for less weight, less, plumbing, and quicker spooling without sacrificing upper rpm performance. They develop boost extremely early (1+bar at the low 2000 rpm range). I believe someone makes a quick spool valve assembly for the T3 or t4 flange that directs all the airflow to the outer side of the turbine until boost pressure reaches x number and then the valve opens up to allow full flow to both sides. It's all mechanical and quite simple. I believe originally made for Diesel Cummins applications (HX35?), but the Japanese car guys started using them for gas applications. The Y pipe or manifold should not be divided (we are not using the twin scroll to benifit from exhaust pulses in this application). It is simply there to increase velocity before the turbo can generate reasonable boost. In effect cutting the AR in half until boost reaches x number. It would be an easy test on the dyno to get actual numbers and the boost map with and without any other changes than the quick spool valve.
As far as variable vane turbos I only have experience with the ones used in VW/Audi diesels. They are complicated and prone to failure (the vanes jamb up).
I enjoyed watching your video and learning from a guy with so much knowledge and experience. Keep up the good work.
the twin scroll is not why they stock motors build boost so fast-its turbo sizing
@@richardholdener1727 Understood. Sizing for intent (build boost at low rpm for a mid HP increase and a flatter torque curve vs same engine designed max torque/hp above 3000 rpm).
The title says "lose the lag" and using a twin scroll (not for its inteded purpose of taking advantage of exhaust pulse) and adding a quick spoole valve you could kind of have the best of both worlds (large AR for the 3K and above and building considerable boost at 1800-2200 rpm). Sizing still very important.
Maximum boost by corky bell I think that's his name. Fantastic book even thought it's from the late 90s
Please Do a Step By Step Dyi Blow Throw Carb . Turbo install . Where Lets say U . Buy each parts . off the inter net . I have a Small Block Ford with a Carb . Thank u .
Review the compressor map for the turbo compared to the engine by itself. The turbo has to be above its most efficient point when it's working its hardest. The idea is that when you roll onto the throttle, the turbo goes through its most efficient phase as you spool and max out the system. A pair of 58mm tubos on a 6.0 would be a responsive setup!
Using remotely mounted injector, much the same connection as back pressure sensor, you can inject fuel into your turbo hot side. Ferrari played with this concept on the 488. (Not sure if they implemented) its way more efficient than two-step, as it doesn't heat the valves.
Richard could do this on the dyno pretty easy. Maybe diesel injector is better? Obviously its little more technical than that, but its something along those lines. What you think?
Garrett's turbine exhaust flow charts.....I noticed that you can use Borg Warners turbo selector (Match Bot) to produce exhaust flow numbers (lbs/min) which can then be used in the charts. How do you correctly use that data along with the charts when choosing different A/R housings? I assume you would need to chose a housing where all the points fall below the lines(pressure ratio by turbine flow) in the chart? Or does something else factor in? thanks!
From what I read about divided vs undivided turbine housings is the divided supposedly spool a little quicker in a proper setup but I'd imagine there has gotta be some reduced flow from the vane reducing volume of the housing.
It’s just a thin divider, not restrictive at all
I think this just shows you need to put a long runner N/A intake on the 3800 Big Bang whether it’s a series 2 (plastic) or series 3 (aluminum) when you get that point. Love the videos by the way!
Is the series 2 on the firebird plastic or what material is it?
What about the f body intake, or holdens, or zzps hv3 insert......
The hv3 insert basically takes away a good 2 inches of runner if not more.
@@emanueltorres4093 the f-body intake is aluminum
@@tylermcintyre5177 from what I read and seen, the FWD N/A intakes are the best flowing
Richard, why is controling the wastegate with boost pressure not mensioned? With a 3/4 port controller you would plumb boost pressure to the top of the wastegate diaphragm and keep it shut not allowing any early opening of the gate which happends on "dumb" wastegats. Essentially reaching the boost target earlier since non controlled gates always leak, and more in proportion to the pressure that they see. 10lb spring will be fully open at that pressure sure, but it would start opening long before.
THIS DOESN'T CHANGE THE SPOOL RATE OF THE TURBO (WHICH HAPPENS BEFORE THE GATE OPENS), IT JUST STOPS EARLY BLEEDING OFF-BUT IT ALWAYS A GOOD IDEA
I'd like to see some tests with variable valve timing and tuning it to " kick in" when boost comes in or if it makes more power engaging before or after the turbo comes up on boost.....
IF VARIABLE VALVE TIMING HELSP NA POWER-IT HELPS TURBO POWER
🔥🔥🔥🔥 great content man
Not a comment but rather a question. I noticed you mentioned something about 6 cylinder engines. Looking for some information/feedback for the 3.8 turbocharge v6 custom built setup (8.3:1) for street performance. Possibly a custom cam setup which would raise the operating range far above the stock engine heads and small cam profile. Maybe a fast ramp cam, something that would allow for a lot more mass air flow without the back pressure something that would not have a lot of overlap at higher rpms understanding that duration will increase. And possible turbos for a setup like that. (produce around 800hp while having good turbo response) Any feedback would be appreciated.
do what you can to make the na motor more powerful then ad a turbo to get you where you want to be (800 hp needs a good size turbo)
@@richardholdener1727 Have a PTE 7675 (1200hp) gotton feedback from others on a PTE6766 (935hp) running 83lbs injectors and c16 fuel.
Planning on using the Mercury Racing air to air manifold and a tvs1900 to feed a 7685 and a water to air to cool the charge on a k series in a mr2.
Mad K24 in a MR2! Respect!
Building a 300 HP @ 5,000rpm 4.7 Jeep 6 stroker for my 2,200 pound Crosley drag car. Redline is 5,500. Leave on trans brake at 2,500. Peak torque 300 @ 4,500. What turbo for 500 HP, in case I want to go faster? I watch every video and have learned a great deal. At 79, I'm not too old to learn, haha.
the cheap GT45 would work for that-also a GT35 might work if the hot side was big enough
got a challenge build for you. take a 4.8, stroke it with a 3.9 crank. but try to do it with as many oem parts that you can. im trying to build a stroker 4.8 for my yukon, need more torque for this heavy pig. trying to keep the stock 4l60, but i plan on a very mild turbo setup, around 500-600 hp, later on when i get the money. might just rock the oddball 350ls, if i can make it work
there is no factory 3.9-inch crank-an LS7 has a 4.0-inch-but its very expensive
@@richardholdener1727 i know that, i was looking at the k1 3.9, just dont know what else i would need besides rods to make it run
Any help you can give me, I would be grateful.
@@richardholdener1727 i just think it would be interesting to see what such a boost to cu in would do to a stock motor. do it as a slow build up. first stroker, then headers, then cam
Could you explain the "shuttle valve" that Banks uses in his twin turbo kits in a future video?
I'm sure Gale has a vid on that
@@richardholdener1727 Not that I found, but I just sent them an email anyway. Just being lazy & hoping for a normal answer without having to wade through any advertising jargon being injected into the answer?
@@derrelcarter9401 did you ever find out anything else about the valve?
@@staylebutler9135 He does have a video that sorta mentions it, you gotta wade through several to find it though? Not a real detailed explanation though
There are diesels that use a blower/turbo combo but they use a blockoff plate on the intake of the supercharger(making it run in a vacume) and bypasses the it when the turbo comes on boost
THAT WORKS WELL-LIKE THE LANCIA DELTA INTERGRALE GROUP B RALLY CAR
So anti lag is air and fuel being lit in the exhaust pre turbo correct? Accomplished by killing spark to a cylinder(or more?). I'm assuming then that as long as the air fuel ratio is correct it will burn amidst the exhaust gas. With a diesel killing spark and getting fresh air and fuel past the combustion chamber isn't really possible. What do you think about propane and compressed air injected into the exhaust manifold for anti lag? I thought about trying to spin the compressor wheel with compressed air aimed right at it as well but you mentioned it didn't work. I have a stock turbo diesel and it's a dead turd until 2500 rpm and boost. I want that fixed without the complexity of adding a supercharger, because I've thought about that for sure I have a m90....
I don’t know the answer to the manifold size question but I would love
To see the test🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Bahaha he said rotary when talking about heads!! 🤣 Snuck a good one in there lol
23:00 seen a fan clutch set up that gets the supercharger out of the way by simply throwing out at a set rpm. by that I mean stops being driven.
Hey Richard, all 3, a centrifugal, roots, and turbo would be funny lol!
You forgot the whipple
Richard please elaborate on what you mean by big bang in regards to a neon srt4. I own a srt4 and you have piqued my curiosity.
EDIT: I just watched your latest video and subsequently your explanation of what a big bang motor is. I don't know if you ever ran the srt4 to find its limit but if not then I can save you some time. The rods will let go on a neon srt4 engine around 400 to 450 hp. Some manage to make it to 500 but they are uncommon.
400-450-500 hp? got it, but it will actually be a torque number that breaks a connecting rod.
@Richard Holdener not sure what the TQ would be. Either way, you will window the block. These engines are capable of 1500hp fully built, and by fully built, I mean rods, pistons, head and main studs, and crank strap kit (to strengthen the bedplate mains), ported head, cams.
I would really like to see a srt4 max effort video rather than a stock bottom end power video. Blowing up a motor trying to reach 2khp would be a much bigger bang and a much worthier endeavor, in my opinion.
Wondering what you would recommend for an offroad rock buggy 6.0L ls turbo build. Looking for around 800-850hp, high low end torque, and be able to run 91 octane as anything higher is hard to come by where I live. Love your videos and would love to know how you would build a motor for this application. From your videos I'm currently leaning towards a 7875 turbo with .96 a/r, twins may be easier to package though. Would also like to know what cam, and any other info you could provide.
A TURBO LS FOR A ROCK CRAWLER?
@@richardholdener1727 yes. It gets both trail wheeled and raced on hard core obstacle courses. Right now I have 550hp na ls and it's a bit sluggish out of the hole until after 3500 rpm. So trying to both improve that and add more top end as some of my competitors have 840hp and pull away on the straights
I do have a factory cross fire intake and throttle body off a mid 86ish firebird. If you are interested.
I would love to see that intake with a moder ECM, and coil on plug ignition!
@@randallmason9687 question you would consider trying a LS cam for it?
I went from watching Richard's videos and dreaming about swapping an LS in my old truck, yesterday I pulled the trigger on a turbo, Boy I hope I chose well, wanting 700 at the tire( responsive as possible) like those 125,000 Raptors. Have a 6.0 truck Norris Trailblazer SS on the fence about keeping my 317s or going 799 the turbo is a VS GEN1 BILLET S475/83 T4 1.10 should that be about right for 800ish at crank? How about on 91/93 gas with the 317's at that power level.. because if not I might as well add some compression.
what about water injection in place of octane to tame detonation?
Hey Richard, Vodka and Sprite with a Lime slice squeezed would go great after this QnA 🥴
RASPBERRY LEMON DROPS
Thank you Richard!!
I think that exhaust cutout question was referring to having the cutouts post-turbo, not sure if you answered it from that perspective. Basically, how much does exhaust backpressure after the hotside affect spoolup, boost, and exhaust manifold pressure?
if the exhaust is big enough to support the power level-there will be no gains from cut outs-if the exhaust is too small-then there will be gains from increased exhaust flow. Improving the exhaust flow after the turbo is very helpful
Really, really great talk, thank you
Great information , just curious of your thoughts on variable nozzle turbos?
not sure on longevity
@@richardholdener1727 true, lots of moving parts but porsche has been using them for years not sure who else other than dodge on my shelby back in the 90's
Richard, would a couple GT-35's blowing thru a 800cfm Holley on a 306 inch small block Ford with a comp cams extreme energy 274 h with afr 165cc heads be a good choice for street? It will be drag raced occasionally as well.
FOR 1000 HP, YES OR GO SMALLER OR SINGLE GT45
Also for that other video regarding leaving a stock cam in it and allowing the turbo to make the power. you would have to run more boost to get the same power output correct? and couldn't the more boost have a negative effect on power, like if you live in a hot area and maybe the intercooler is having a hard time? Like running a stock cam 5.3 at 17 psi sounds a lot more dangerous than a cam 5.3 at like 8-10psi.
cam, springs and boost is usually best
Banks Performance is trying a blower feeding turbos, maybe you should try it? A roots or screw blower seems to be the choice since you’ve mentioned a centrifugal blower is soft at the bottom
Richard has said he's going to do a compound super-turbo on the Buick 3.8 that he just got.
Banks' new video on his super-turbo monster truck engine has shown some problems.
@@andyharman3022
Banks, seems to me to have said to put the blower before the turbos
@@rickrack78 Yes, he said that late in the video. He has done marine Duramaxes in the past that had the blower before the turbo. Maybe he wanted to research something different.
I did the compound supercharged 04 Cobra motor with the roots and twin turbos-it works well
@@richardholdener1727 , how well does the blower keep up with the turbos? I can think that the blower’s parasitic drag drops off. Maybe some reed valves that allow bypass air between the two? There was a company back in the 80’s that turbocharged tow/RV type trucks. They added a spacer between the carb/throttle body injection and intake. The spacer had a reed valve between. The turbo inlet was above the reeds and outlet below. When boost came up, it shut the reeds and routed through the turbo. A pretty slick setup for low boost towing.
I'm curious to see a boosted low reving combo. Curious about the Triton V10 with a turbo. How do you turbo a motor like this where it's not ment to rev to the moon but is large displacement? Can I turbo it the same as similar displacement LS? I like that T76 with larger AR. But would it be responsive in a heavy truck?
we added boost to a 440 Mopar, 454 Chevy, 455 Buick and 500 Cad
Thanks for the upload, very instructive. I'm in the process of building a bbm 451. I messed up and ordered a s475. It has an a.r. of 1.32. Do you think a horse power goal of 750 to 850 is feasible. Does my n.a. h.p.need to be kept down to around 400 or will 500 be okay. I'm just wondering because I was going to run trick flow heads but from what I've read they say run just average cast heads. Do you think the s475 will carry power close to 6000 r.p.m......thanks
THE S475 CAN MAKE NEAR 1000 HP SO YOU ARE FINE
Thank you very much for the reply. I really enjoy your videos. Happy holidays and keep pumping out the videos
I see the cold side are similarities the hot in the fact that the more free flowing they are the more power you will make.
Rear mounted turbos please
Please so many people wanna know
It's dumb adds lots of spool time
Rear mount is no different. Size it for what your doing my 67mm on my v6 makes boost immediately from 2k on
Just out of curiosity would back pressure help if the wastegate was installed on the hot side of the turbo housing. The reason I ask is cuz I seen this on sloppy mechanics where Matt had welded wastegate off the exhaust housing off the turbo.
THERE IS NO NEED TO WELD THE WASTE GATE TO THE HOUSING EXCEPT TO MAKE IT FIT
I'm gonna clarify what I said. You cannot change the relationship between boost and backpressure at a fixed air mass flow.
If you go to the gt45 challenge video with 4.8v454 and look where each engine makes about 410hp and compare the boost to backpressure at those points. If you compare the boost to backpressure of the 454 at about 9psi boost and 4500 on the graph to the 4.8 at 6400 and 8.5psi boost. Those engines are making almost have the same airflow at those rpm points and the turbo has the same working pressure ratio, airflow, and not coincidentally, backpressure. It wouldn't matter what 410hp engine you put that turbo on, running it at 9psi boost will have nearly the same backpressure.
the back pressure is higher on the 454 even at the same na power output (which happened at different rpms)
If you want to do twins (parallel), do you just double the power output of the turbo? For instance, would putting two 500 hp turbos give you 1000 hp potential?
YES
@@richardholdener1727 Awesome, thanks for the quick response!
I have stock 98 350 Chevy vortec engine was wanting add RV cam or torque style cam for towing. What would be good turbo for around 400 or 500 hp.
look at the GT45 video that posted today
I'd be curious of a test of headers vs manifolds in regard to drive pressure. It does seem a bit odd to me that the intake side of the motor behaves so similar NA vs turbo, but the exhaust side doesn't seem to give a flying fuck. One thing I've noticed is that on Subarus which generally have a garbage hot side stock (really poor manifold design) they won't spool til like 3k rpm even though the turbo lights off and peaks early. From a driving perspective it feels really goofy, but that could also be down to how the boost control is mapped. It calls for high boost down low and tapers out aggressively.
FACTORY TURBO MOTORS TEND TO HAVE A FALLING BOOST CURVE DESIGNED AND PROGRAMMED INTO THEM
@@richardholdener1727 Well yeah, because it's a tiny turbo and they don't want to overspeed it. What I'm saying is that considering that, it's weird that it takes as much rpm as it does before the turbo lights off. Compare that to the more modern WRX with a twin scroll equal length header and they basically spool right off idle.
I would like to know if you took FE log manifolds and reversed them, say two passenger side logs reversed them so the exits are facing forward with a 2.5 crossover pipe and a mount for the turbo on the passenger side and the exit pipe under the passenger side of 4 inches and split it into twin 3 inch pipes into an X and 3 inch pipe to exit in front of the rear wheels. I am thinking about a GT 45to a water intercooler and to a hat on a 750 3310 on a 4.1 bore 3.984 stroke V8 420 ci. What should my hp goal be ? And NA ? I keep grabbing old threads.
A GT45 WILL ONLY SUPPORT 700-750 HP
What has more stress on the motor, small turbo high boost? Big turbo low boost? Both making around the same amount of power. Thanks
It depends on what you mean by things like "stress" and "high/low". All other things being equal both engines wouldn't be making the same power. Unless some other factors where different to compensate which would affect the engine's "stress". A small turbo at "high" boost is usually less efficient than a large turbo at "low" boost (depending on the characteristics of the compressor) as generating higher boost, in addition to usually causing more backpressure and thus pumping losses, has the byproduct of generating more heat which diminishes the charge's oxygen density which means less fuel can be burned and less power generated.
If you had two 5L engines, one with a smaller turbo one with a larger turbo, both can make the same power (until you exceed the capacity of the smaller turbo) but the 5L with the smaller turbo will likely need to burn more fuel to make the same power due to it being a less efficient way to compress air - it's proving the same amount of oxygen but it has to work harder, pressurize the air more, to do it.
@@177SCmaro Thankyou for the response, some good info
@@madvtecyo546 Further, a "small" turbo will spool up faster, but run into a performance ceiling before the large turbo. If this ceiling is at or above your power goals, then you are golden.
Would twin gt45 clones on a LS1 be enough for 1000 to 1300hp and what kind of boost pressure on a stock bottom end with correct ring gap?
Hi Richard . My build is 6.0ls sloppy stage two , hooker black heart headers 801bs.inj. Truck manifold . Could you recommend turbo size. Also I am running 40l60e in s-10. Thx.
S475 OR 7875 GEN 2 VS RACING WORKS WELL TO 1000 HP
@@richardholdener1727 thanks. And thanks for sharing all the info with us.
Great vids but can you do some diesel stuff?
I read a book by Smokey yunick and he said put the longest rod possible that will fit in the engine. the way I understood it was longer rods make more torque and that translates to hp in higher rpm. torque x rpm is part of the hp equation. it might be a fun video for you to do. take a 350 put 400 rods of 5.5 compared to the 5.7 stock 350 rods and then 6.0 rods and test it to compare them it would be fun to find out.
I tested a 5.7 vs 6.0 rod-no change-but I do love Smokey
@@richardholdener1727 thank you for your reply I'll try to find that video
@@richardholdener1727 according to what I read it was supposed to increase rod to stroke ratio and make more torque. also supposed to decrease piston speed in the bore allowing for more rpm or decrease rod load at higher rpm 5000 to 7000 or more
@Richard how does splitting from one larger turbo to 2 smaller turbos help with boost response and max HP potential? I'd assume the smaller turbos help with boost response, but will it push through the efficiency map of the turbo more easily because it's a smaller turbo?
if the single and twins are sized to do the same thing-I think its similar response
@@richardholdener1727 I wasn't sure if the smaller turbine having a lower mass in theory, meant that they'd spool faster than a bigger single turbo. But they also only get half of the exhaust flow each. Sounds like a dyno test to me 😀. Two 250hp turbos vs One 500hp turbo
Son had a Vega with a 350 sbc with Lunati race cam, etc set up for drags. I t had 3000 stall,holley strip dominator, etc and was driven daily on the street. Wouldn't idle below 1500, and had low vacuum. changed to Rhoades' hyd lifters and got the idle down to 900, and improved drivability, and gained some vacuum back. Couldn;t you use rhoades lifters to improve spool-up on turbo response?
it might
Have you ever tried a 5in turbo outlet on the hot side because I have seen you talk about 3 1/2 in to 4in so I was wondering it would less back psi
4.5 is the biggest we have run
What I'd like to see on turbos is a comparison of how a choked hot side effects power. I have an N54 powered BMW and an M52B28 with an HX35 on it and I'm struggling to make the power I think I should make on the built M52, lots of people are telling me it's the hot side of the HX35 is too small but I look at the itsy bitsy turbos on the N54 and question why those tiny turbos could make more power than the HX35.
With a 12cm hx35 on the m53 you should be good for 550ish bhp....after that you want a bigger turbine housing.
Sorry I missed this live feed. So twin GT45's would double the backpressure capacity of the setup, but does it also double the horsepower potential? I.E. Does a 5.3L LS with twin GT45's = HP capability of ~1200hp? Different tack - We have a 2014 Ram 3500 with the Holset VGT. The actuator has crapped out right around 4000hrs (as expected). Is there a better way to resolve this issue than buying a "rebuilt" (most likely just harvested from the junkyard and tested) replacement or the City Diesel $900 upgraded replacement?
I’m 3 years late with my question but what about twin VSR 67/66/96ar on a 5.3 at 10-1/2 to 1 compression? Would that be a decent window to drive the turbos and make good power?
what fuel and what power level?
@@richardholdener1727Hey Richard appreciate the response sir, it’s currently setup for E85 and my goals are 1000hp, the short block is the pro ls kit with 10 over 2cc domes, heads are 220 / 61cc chamber, I purchased the holly high ram and the btr stage 1 turbo cam, but I’m currently not to sure about the cam and intake combo supporting the goals.
Would two GT35s at 12 lbs on a 385 hp 394 ci FE with short headers turned around and the turbo close and with the two turbos how big of an intercooler would I need. The goal is 700 hp and 600 lbs ft . Compression Ratio is 9.5:1 intake is a Holley Street Dominator single plane and 750 Holley rpm peak desired is 6100-6200 , cam 27OS 224@.050 .531 lift 110 LSA and 50 degrees overlap. Head flow 265 cfm. I have this engine in the car now., would widening ring gap at this level? I forget the gaps, but the pistons are 4032 forged that built in 1999. I am basing it on 386 hp though it likely makes 425. Do I need a balance tube after the intercooler?
sorry for the spam as well but sitting here thinking and listening to you, with the exhaust size and turbo response, but you could do your standard turbo kit then simulate a rear turbo set up and put the turbo wayyy back behind the dyno
Thank you Richard!
schrick cams across the pond makes/made a 288/272 cam for the bmw b20m engines , it was meant for turbo setup
na was 272/272 sport , 288/288 semi and 302/302 race (high idle)
does a 288/272 cam work in a na setup proberly :)
You were just saying that if you increase the compression that the turbos work better but i am being told that i need to reduce compression in order to run turbos or pro charger just to let you know what i have Its a blueprinted 351dart blocked, CHI 3V pro series cleveland headed 438 ci holley efi ,dominator v5 ecu with 13.5 to 1 compression do i need to bring the compression down in order to run a turbo or procharger or am i running a little to much compression it dynoed at 804hp at 6500 rpm on 93 pump gas ,with a 100 shot of nos 93 pump gas 1043 hp at 6500 rpm im torn because i have a good friend who says i have to reduce compression and then people telling me as long as i have the air and fuel mixture right i will have no problem with my compression i have watched so many of you videos that i have a bunch of faith in what you know from experience
YES LOWER THE COMPRESSION-ESPECIALLY IF YOU RUN 93 OCATNE-IF YOU RUN VERY HIGH OCTANE RACE FUEL-YOU CAN KEEP IT THERE
@@richardholdener1727 thank you richard i think im just going to run it as a drag car no street driving I appreciate what you do immensely
Cylinder heads kinda goes with the less boost more power affect..
Can you throw out a turbo you would recommend for low compression 454 8:1 compression with “towing” cam shaft, is the gt45 still small for this application?
GT45 would work at 7 psi
I have a '62 Chevy II, an IFS, T-56 Magnum 6-speed manual transmission, Currie 9" Ford rear end with 4.30:1 twin trac posi, 4-link setup. Looking to build/acquire a 700 hp turbo or TT setup using an LS3 base. Any suggestions for ignition or ECU? I'm new to this, so my question might not make sense... if I swap an LS3 TT into that old car, what electronics would I need to control ignition advance, boost control etc..?
I forgot to mention my intent is to use a 6.2 liter anvil. Probably go with 10.5 CR.
you need either a stand alone efi ecu or an msd ignition controller if you run a blow-through carb
@@richardholdener1727 Thanks. Was planning on an EFI for cold start days (I live at 6,000' elevation where there's lots of snow half the year - and I'm building a daily driver). I guess I'm assuming that EFI offers better cold start... is that a correct assumption? If EFI, would MSD offer a viable solution? Thanks again. Very much appreciated.
I run fast or hooley-you can also use the stock ecu (tuned)
Build my twin turbo kit Richard!!
Got a question Richard can a stock bottom end 5.3 gen 4 handle twin T7875s
yes-please see the big bang 5.3L video
id like to see test comparing valve overlap / boost/ power. more power na is more power boosted but what about efficiency?
I would like to see the Gen 3 Hemi 392 comparison, stock intake, sniper intake and then the edelbrock Hemi intake. Especially under boost on all 3.....????????
Ive been looking into superchargers which is what i prefer but from what ive realized, i dont have SC money. Am i right in assuming that 6 grand minimum is what im looking at for a supercharger?
junkyard stuff is less
@@richardholdener1727 Do you have a good idea of superchargers to look for? Also, will it produce the same results as an gt-45 without lag?
How much horsepower do you think I'd be pushing if a had an LQ9 with LS3 heads, LS6 high lifter cam, LS3 43lbs injectors, LS3 90MM throttle body, 1¾ long tubes, cold air intake and lq4 intake
I just picked up a 2014 6.2l from a high country pickup I'm having to sleeve the block and I have no clue about the heads that came with it I know they are not the 832. They are rec port heads but one head is damaged. So tell me what you would suggest for this motor. It will be in a street application not drag.
Throw it away and buy a 6.0
isn't that a DI motor?
@@richardholdener1727 I dont know much about the 6.2 its newer all the stuff that came with it looks like a 6.0 setup as far as fuel rail and injectors are concerned has rec port heads and I have a trailblazer ss type intake that came with it. I've been told mixed things about the 6.2
This is new territory for me if it was older ls stuff it would be different but this my 1st newer engine. I picked it up for 150 bucks thought it would be worth playing with.
@@markbuskens6070 that bad huh. I've heard mixed but I've seen some crazy builds that are solid as well
Why is higher compression ratia helping with spool? My understanding is that the power efficiency is going up by raising the compression ratio, the exhaust temperature should actually go down and so the flow on exhaust when more off the power from your fuel is used in the cylinder.
Actually thinking about it, when you ad compression ratio you take a fraction of displacement away from the cylinder head,
I know from research that the spool time is getting better with higher compression rate, but I just can't get my head around why?
All the best and keep up the great work👍
COMPRESSION ADDS POWER-POWER ADDS EXHUAST FLOW-AND THERE YOU HAVE IT
(1) cylinder head volume has no bearing on engine displacement
(2) higher compression = higher cylinder fill due to increased suction on intake & scavenge on exhaust = more exhaust flow
What is a good turbo for a honda k24a2 to make about 500wheel hp max. Looking for alot of response since i want to AutoX and track it..G25-660? G30-770?
Can you make a list of turbo hp limits 600hp ,800hp, 1000hp.
FOR EACH TURBO?
@@richardholdener1727 yeah like ebay gt45is 600 s475 is xxx, like a buyers guide based on the turbos you use so we can reference to a previous dyno test video.
Way too many turbos out there mate. I'd suggest looking up how to read compressor maps and that way you'll be able to find out what each turbo will produce and a bit more
@@anthonycamillos3719 The answer to the question: "how much time to you spend at X amount of boost" will go a long way towards answering his question of "which turbo to buy" just by looking at the compressor maps.
If he is towing a lot up large hills, he will want one that makes a bit higher boost for his combo and is still in the efficiency island. If he daily drives a hot rod and only occasionally goes into higher boost, he will want a turbo sitting happily in the efficiency island while in low boost, and spools up mighty quickly when into higher boost, I think.
You know the thing