Kitchen Cabinet Primer adhesion test - Zinsser Bondz vs Zinsser BIN
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- Опубліковано 15 лис 2024
- Preparing your cabinets with quality primer can make a BIG difference in how your final top-coat paint looks and lasts. Poor primer can result in your final coat paint no sticking or it can begin to crack or chip. Your top coat of paint can also turn out splotchy if your primer doesn't properly prepare your wood surface.
This video is to show the difference in adhesion between Zinsser Bondz and Zinsser BIN synthetic shellac.
I have been painting for over 40 years. I have been using BIN shellac for many years. It is fantastic on every surface. Seals stains beautifully sticks to anything, sands great and the finish goes on like a mirror. I had a stained wood ceiling a few years back that I need to paint and was afraid of bleed through. I happen to run into the zinzzer rep at the store and told me the advanced shellac water-based was fantastic. So I bought a few gallons and painted the ceiling. It bled like crazy. I thought maybe it drew the stain out and locked it in. I put a little finish paint over it and that bled like crazy too. So I went back to the store and bought the shellac bin and put a coat over the ceiling No bleed through at all. Dried in about ten minutes I put the finish coat on and it was perfect. I put up with the smell it is well worth it. I never even see the advanced at the store anymore. I don't even know if they make it anymore it was junk. As far as the gardz I used it once over lacquered cabinets and worked good. No better than the other zinzzer primer water-based cover stain which is a great primer as well. Don't let the name fool you cover stain does not cover stains, only BIN shellac does that. There's my two cents Thank you.
Oh my gosh I’m going to paint my cupboards soon and I just bought the bondz! I totally need to go back and get the BIN!
Any difference from the BIN Shellac vs the BIN Advanced Synthetic Shellac?
Cover stain is oil based and no bleed through ever
Never had bleed through with cover stain 35yrs here and used it in the uk aswell
Thanks so much for the comparison. Made my decision an easy one. Painting bathroom cabinets this week and I wanted to use the best primer and your video was great! Thank you 😊
I had painted some cabinets with Sherman Williams Extrene Bond Primer. Great product, it will stick to glass if it's clean. then I painted the cabintes with SW ProClassic and after just couple of coats it looked great. But, as I was about to start on the doors, i made sure the cabinets still looked good but noticed some grain and sap coming up through on the cabinets that I thought were complete. So I startted looking for a sap and stain blocker and found Zinsser BIN. Even better is the fact it comes in an aerosol, no cleanup hassles related to shellac based products, no brush or roller marks and dries in 10 minutes. i lightly sanded down just the areas that were coming through and spot treated the sap. 2 light coats. Then a quick, very light pass with a 229 sponge and 2 light coats of proClassic. Back to great again. so, I sprayed BIN on alll of the doors to seal and block everything in. A couple light sanding passes and then to light coats with the SW Proclassic. I love that aerosol version
I know this is two years after your video is posted, but I want to thank you for the test and showing the effectiveness of each of these. Also for filling wood grain, something that has worked great for me is the Aqua Coat. Thanks again
After seeing your video almost a year ago, I decided to try BIN Advanced. I had used BIN Shellac based primer in the past but I was looking for a water based primer with good adhesion to spray some kitchen cabinets. I cleaned the cabinets with TSP to make sure they were free of any grease. I then very lightly sanded them. Right before spraying, I quickly wiped everything down with deglosser. The adhesion was unbelievable. Unfortunately, I did have some bleed through from the old finish, but a second coat took care of that. Since then, I've used it on several projects including another kitchen.
Thanks for the video. If I hadn't seen your video, I probably would have never tried it.
Great video. I mean it. You gave great advise, showed an example, and most importantly, didn't waste my time! I find myself rolling my eyes listening to the crap that some people talk about that has nothing to do with their video subject. I would love it if all DIY videos were this well done. You should do a video on the next step. how many coats of primer, what if anything you do between them and then the paint coat. Brush or spray etc.
Nice video, glad to see testing done beforehand. The regular Zinsser Bin has high adhesion and stain blocking, we use it in Cabinet Refinishing quite a bit. Haven’t tried the advance version though.
Have you tried a vinyl sealer?
Exactly what I need to see. The BIN Synthetic Shellac is water cleanup. There is also a BIN that is shellac-based and not water cleanup.
By now you've probably already finished the project, but there is a product called Aquacoat that can help fill pores as compared to dents, chipped or spot repair. It's to be thinly applied using several coats to fill pores. It's water based and doesn't have much of an odor. The consistency is sort of a gel or waxy feel. Sands almost to easy. If you put on to much or try to work it to much it will turn a funky brown color. Otherwise it dries next to clear. Also, comes in white. Good luck.
Bin Primer shellac is a great primer! I personally would use the original Bin Shellac primer i think its much better than the Bin Advance Shellac....
Did you do anything to the doors before you primed them or did you go right over the smooth clear finish?
it's always best to clean well and scuff with light sandpaper , HOWEVER , from your test , I can easily see Bondz performs poorly , you might as well us e a water based primer if that's all you get ..... Most Painters know BIN or Kilz Oil is about the best for sticking , and very few primers will hold up to a "Nickel scratch test" .... The primer does need to Bond , but a "decent Bond" is okay once the topcoat is one and it's all cured out . but yes , BIN is probably one of THEE BEST choices for a Bonding Primer on cabs .... I have used Valspar Water Based Bonding Primer as an undercoat , and it worked fairly well , I did clean and scuff though , I always do ..... It was a decent bond and application was great , dried fast ..... But I doubt it would hold up to the nickel scratch test .... metal scratches damn near anything ..... GOOD VIDEO THOUGH , I certainly learned Bondz "ain't all that" , I can see how it comes right off really , right back to the clearcoat of the original finish .... I'm not crazy about Zinsser ANYTHING except BIN .... I prefer Kilz to Zinsser on most products
You jest save my project thanks a lot man
Never heard of the Bondz stuff so I was curious. Is it for masonry maybe? What I do know is that BIN is absolutely brilliant stuff and I’ve never found anything better. Cheers for sharing 👍🏻
Thanks for helping me save time and money!
BIN is a go to great product but it should be noted that according to the manufacturer Bondz achieves full hardness and scrape resistance in 7 days.
Vinyl sealer smokes both of theses. Aqua coat for the grain white fell sealer. Shellac after a time hardens and gets brittle.
Shellac is hard as soon as it's fully cured, but there's no reason to put enough bin (the real stuff vs. the water based stuff in this video) on as a sealer that brittle would ever matter. Brittle isn't poor adhesion, it's high hardness. high hardness isn't a problem in a thin layer.
Did you sand down that cabinet door before applying that 'Bondz' product??
Wow, glad I saw this.
Great video test!
Did you sand and do proper prep work
My fear here is you didnt prep the surfaces...???... some products are more reliant on it... and should always be done... I would guess that the Bin would bond better regardless.. however Im guessing the Bondz would bond more that adequately, and probably be most elastic over time(very important... wood is always moving)... Zinsser makes very good primers... and by "Prep" I mean thouroughly sanding(#180ish, depending)... and then "Critical"... washing with TSP(the real stuff)... this etches it (its an acid)and removes any residue... Thoroughly rinse!!!... I have painted for over 40 years... never a call back... and rarely use solvent based these days... These chemists are good...
Thank you!
Bondz is good for really rough surfaces like brick walls...
Is the bondz waterbased ??? , I dont think I have seen it in the uk
Thank you can you apply water base paint over BIN primer
yes you can
@@cwsiggy77 I guess oil base BlN will work for both paint's
The bin he uses is water-based
Bondz need like 7 days to fully cure, water based.
I always used cover stain primer but is too much sanding the odor is so strong a lot voc also clean the the air less a lot time is no good for the air less oil based primer... universal bond primer for Kelly Moore is water primer easy clean the air less
Use a deglosser first to remove any varnish from the wood. Then apply primer.
Or just use some elbow grease and sandpaper.
I guess the issue with a shellac primer is that you don't have to. The surface needs to be clean - shellac will obviously bond to itself and wood if it's rubbed on even if there's oil on a surface, but it does have to be rubbed and then the oil needs to be wiped off of the shellac (french polish - I've finished a lot of wood by oiling the wood and then applying the shellac to wet oil, then wiping the oil off of the shellac once it's hardened).
Thx 🙏🏼 for the info.
I used a lot primers I’m painter for 14 years I do a lot cabinets with clear finish I used the best primer Benjamin Moore universal primer for Kelly Moore the best I used already Sherwin-Williams primers Dunn-Edwards primers Home Depot primers nothing better universal bond for Kelly Moore the best
Nestor, have you used Dunn Edwards “Block It “ primer ? It’s a water based alkyd. Great product 👍
Good info. Thx
How about kilz original oil
Thank you Man
Thanks for sharing
Its amazing how little knowledge store employees actually have. Often they think they know a lot but if you inquire a bit you find out they've never really done what they're telling you will work. BIN always works and dries in 12 minutes, the down side is its $49 a gal, the fumes are dangerous and if you spray NEVER clean it with water you will clog your sprayer. Clean up with mineral spirits.
you can use amonia for cleaning your sprayer or brushes, and after that flush them with clean water, amonia is cheaper than alcohol for sure.
The exact cabinets in my kitchen thst I am about to paint. I already took 8 hours to use deglosser to clean them
I remember when I had mere 20 years experience. I would make a recommendation and the client would respond, "The guy at the Home Center says I aught to do...". Yep, the guy or gal at the home center is the expert. If the customer was that stupid, I wouldn't argue. It's not my house.
Ugh , customers have no idea how much work cabinets are.
Lol been literally no one in Home Depot has every paint anything but their finger nails
@@Skabanis ouch..but mostly true.
They ought to give the guys at the counter an hour a day to play with the products. The trouble with a lot of these (and maybe even the synthetic bin that is used here) is that the rep will push something new. I'm sure rustoleum would love to get away from having to source shellac, but it's well known. The bin advanced here gums up sandpaper and it's worked OK, but it's not similar to BIN and probably should have a different name. If the rep tells the paint guy that it works better for all situations, then what's the paint guy going to tell customers.
The *pro painter* may get sold something once, but they'll experiment and find out what's what.
btw - I get a lot of the same with toolmaking stuff (for woodworking). Long drawn out questions, I give very specific answers and why, and find out later they were ignored for bad advice. It's a little different situation, but when someone wastes my time, I let them go with their answer from then on and tell them I'm short on time if they ask again and just give them my suggestion.
Bondz needs 4 days to harden. Therefore this video is not accurate. I’m curious how it adheres after waiting for the full 4 days that the maker recommends.
Grain filler for the grain. I believe how i understand it, bondz is made for porous surfaces like brick,concrete. - the cabinet door is too smooth
You didn`t scratch surface at all so what you expect.
Hi there,
I just want to point out that Zinsser Bondz is to be used as a bonding primer. It's supposed to be used for surface that slick or glossy, or if you just don't feel like sanding little nooks or crannies. Bondz applies really easily and adheres to most surfaces. Then the topcoat is your protecting coat.
While your test is interesting, I don't think it takes away from the Bondz promise of adhering to most surfaces (even moist or humid surfaces) and then putting any type of top coat on top of it (even solvent based paints and epoxies).
Your comment contradicts the video evidence.
@@TheRayDog actually as a painter for almost 20 years, he's correct. The science of coatings is that the primer and top coats actually have different purposes and work together to achieve adhesion and a certain look.
Shellac vs bullseye 123?
I used 123 for 3 coats of primer on old finished knotty pine, kept bleeding through. One coat of the real thing shellac BIN and no bleed through. Been two years and nary a stain even with white topcoat, beautiful.
Used 123 on my 70 y/o concrete block boathouse (P free TSP for prep) over layers of who knows-what failing paint. Not a single chip after 7 years (Benjamin Moore latex topcoat).
I'm a believer of both for intended purposes, but I've pretty much switched to BIN.
The only reason she recommended it is cause its water based
Those two primers do not work. There are other products that really work lis SW extreme Bonding Primer, Monobond, Sierra High performance Acrylic Primer (Griptec).
Put your money where your mouth is and make a video backing what you are saying, it is easy to bark behing the fence !
macondo 01 poor girl I hurt your feelings. I hope one of day someone wipe off your tears 😭.
Well he just put one primer on a clear coated, unsanded surface and it passed a nickle scratch test. I'd say the BIN absolutely does work.
Same thing happened to me with bondz! It didn't bondz!!