Yep, completely spot on. Being a good sportsman is important, but there is a chance for people to do that during the instructions and after the fight. Once the instruction to fight is given, then it's game on, time to be sharp. There have been no breach of the rules of the sport, the instruction to fight was given, dude got caught in a leg lock and got submitted. Nothing about that is unfair. If we're going by that logic then we might as well let our opponents call time out in the middle of the fight if they're taking too much punishment lol. The moment the fight starts be ready, if you aren't, and you lose, then you really have nothing to complain about afterwards. Great video as always coach.
I think glove touching is useful in training where there isn't a referee watching every move, in that it shows both participants are ready to spar and helps avoid unnecessary injuries. In the context of a professional bout I agree there doesn't seem to be as much need, especially if there is a pre match handshake or glove touch.
Danger! I appreciate the message here. Your logic is flawless. The two chief instructions of the referee are: i. Protect yourself at ALL times ii. Fight! And, fighting is NOT sparring, while at the same time, sparring is NOT fighting. Thank you for the Lesson(s). Pure Love & Respect. Two Tigers
When talking about how some fighters incorporate fouls into their strategy, I immediately thought of basketball, and how the last 2 minutes of any game often boils down to an avalanche of intentional fouls as teams try to force possession
Or how some players are experts at drawing shooting fouls, like James Harden. He's fully within the rules and definition of what constitutes a foul, even though it looks super wonky to the eye.
Once the ref/ring official has instructed the fighters to “protect themselves at all times” means put you game face on! After you’re sent to your corner with instructions to “Fight!” - if you haven’t got your mindset right for the fight… that’s on you. 100% brutal honesty, as usual, Coach - there are the ‘rules’ and then there are the *rules* and ya gotta know em.
That whole fist bump after the referee says “fight” in order to gauge range is something I’ve done in stick fighting. Helps that I’ve only ever fought with people I know I’ll be drinking beer with afterwards though.
@@fancyphantom8103 losing means your dead or maimed. There is no referee to stop the fight. Joint manipulations are joint breaks, mor often than not weapons are involved...its not rocket science
I dunno, instantly hitting an Imanari roll and grabbing a leg lock without taking any damage sounds about as pretty dang clean a win as you can possibly get. Most MMA practitioners can only dream of winning their fights that easily.
In a fight with rules if I'm being pushed to the brink, I don't care about how "nice" I look. I try to push through with mean enough intentions, but I do make sure to genuinely show respect after the fight.
Ref: Protect yourselves at all times Fighter: *Doesn't protect himself, gets tapped* Ref: *Calls fight for other fighter* Fighter: *Surprised Pikachu face*
I remember when Mayweather got headbutted like 3 times by Victor Ortiz one of them with real intent to injure, dude tried to act like a wild ram. After the third Ortiz went for the fist bump and Floyd just layed him out. I couldn't believe the reaction from Larry Merchant after, ridiculing and calling Floyd the dirty fighter. So much dirty stuff happens in a fight that absolutely no one notices, but the chumps get restless over paddy cake 🤨
I also hates how it ruins the pacing of the fight. I want 1...2...3 ready and who ever has better reflexes should jump first and give the first attack. Not this we don't know what is the exact moment when the fight actually begins...
Fist bumps are great to see. BEFORE OR AFTER the fight! You can touch up again at the start of a round. But don't get pissed if the other guy doesn't comply at thar time! Sportsmanship is great to see. But when it's time to fight. PUT EM UP SON!!
Ramsey could you do a video about the long guard in the context of boxing? It is something that fascinated me but I can’t seem to find a video that hits the spot.
Professional fouling is a thing in all sports. From soccer, to waterpolo, to combat sports. A point lost means nothing if you knock your opponent out, and knocking him out may be a lot easier if his groin hurts, or eye can't see, or other pain is slowing him. Professionals understand professional fouling, laymen don't.
I think the big difference between dirty boxing and dirty fighting (MMA or otherwise) is the extremely limiting ruleset of boxing. The more restrictive a ruleset, the easier it is to be seen as dirty. Arm drags might be dirty boxing, but not dirty fighting. I'd expect a lot of boxers, even ones that think arm drags are dirty boxing, would agree arm drags aren't dirty outside the context of boxing. I'd also expect them to think that throwing a bunch at the NCAA Wrestling Championships would be pretty damn dirty, even though they're boxers, and that's what they do. Because it's not what wrestlers do. But socking your opponent after the bell when he doesn't expect it is dirty fighting whether you're competing in muay thai, boxing, MMA, or karate. One is dirty because using a loophole in the rules to do something they don't quite expect you to do. The other is just being a dick.
One of Bernard Hopkins' favorite techniques was a lead right straight followed by him coming forward into the clinch and "accidentally" head-butting or shoulder striking his opponent. He was so good at masking it that referees rarely gave him warning about it. Crafty and cunning. He loved punching guys on the hip bone during the clinch too. He'd make sure to punch on the opposite side that the ref was on. Man, great way to screw up a guy's movement for the rest of the fight
My wrestling coach in high school taught us getting the fist into the opponent when clinched up on the ground. That was a filthy tactic, but it worked.
in my opinion every fighter that instigates the gloves touch is the real dirty fighter considering that he would contribute into a tradition that pressures all fighters to follow through in order to avoid being judged but instead putting themselves under a disadvantage and causing a dilemma that could've been easily prevented
Your opponent won't always hear the bell for ending the round and you'll not always hear the bell. You will get hit in the groin and hit some one in the groin. You will get head-butted and you will head-butted.
Not everyone is exceedingly over respectful once the fight has started. Even of it violates you ideal of how fighters should behave, it happens. So you best be prepared to win, regardless of any potentially dirty actions (in your opinion) your opponent might take. Granted, there are jerks like in any other sport. It is a fight.
So its the difference of being a gentleman (touch glove), being super sportsmanship (wave no to touch glove) , being competitive (direct take down at start), super competitive (make foul into strategy), dirty (constantly disobey rule and try to avoid penalty)
So, I finally saw my first street fight today....on the streets. And, it was every bit as un-fight-like as you have described. It was mostly just flailing without connecting, and hair pulling. Which makes me think....since I don't have any hair...would I win every street fight?
It’s shocking how un-fight like most street fights are, and even more shocking how much the participants brag about how intense and insane and violent it was afterward.
I feel like a lot of people's definition of a 'dirty' move would be any advantageous action taken after a clearly well-intentioned action from an opponent. I see both sides of the argument. Defend yourself at all times is the GOLDEN rule. I mean, it's told to literally everyone in every combat sport. But I personally couldn't feel comfortable knowing some dude just reached his hand out for a bump/shake and I drop him for it.
There's one of chapters in Game of Thrones when Bron, which was a selsword, duels a knight and kills him, the lady of the castle argues" but sir, you didn't fight like a knight!!!" And Bron replies"yep, he did"...
When Alex v & max Holloway touch gloves every round, I read it as saying "we're both badasses, respect for getting to where you've got, we're both just doing a job, we'll be mates afterwards even if I knock your head off" Probably something they need to discuss before the match, & smesh them all over social media should someone break their word
When your not Paroding me or demeaning the level of wrestlers I've trained with @Ramsey Dewey I often agree...glove touch at the center not at the beginning of the round except for the last round of a Championship Fight...where I see it as a sign of acknowledgement that both were good or touch enough to make it this far. I did before at center or salute or bow no glove tough and none of this hugging stuff until after...it's the hurt business...when the round is on you're job is to hurt the other guy. Do your job every second and stop staring in the mirror. Also, Niel isn't the only one taught to be SADISTIC by Uncle Gene
Dirty boxing was a term used for pre modern era boxing tactics. These tactics were used because gloves were smaller so clinching was used more. Namely Jack Johnson was amazing in the clinch. Personally I don't view it as dirty. As opposed to nut crackers like Andre Ward and Bernard Hopkins
Hi Ramsey big fan of the videos just wondering what martial arts do you think is best for kids to start off with my kids do MMA and Thai boxing . But I just wondered what you think is the best martial arts for kids to start off with for a practical self defense
The only thing that would be dirty If. I signal for glove touch You agree As you go to touching the glove I throw a cheap shot. But The ref says fight it's go time. And you're not required to be a sportsman. Outside the rules of the cage.
Right on. Is it dirty? Yes. Is punching someone in the face dirty? Yes. It's a fight. One guy decided to fight, the other decided to try to fist bump after being TOLD to fight.
nice 😁👍 My gym is called Dirty boxing but it's because of my crapy sense of humor. "Dirty boxing, get your hands dirty" 😅 Not something that people tend to forget 😉
Hey Ramsey i have a question but before that i hope you and your family are making it through the lockdown okay. Now I'm having trouble in sparring were I'm holding back to much so much so that its not only effecting me and my training but my gym mates as well i don't know why but i have this huge fear of hurting them which i know sounds dumb but i honestly can't help it because i don't want to ruin there career by giving them concussions or damaging there internal organs. How do you think i should get over this fear? And did you ever go through this yourself?
Hello Mr Dewey I’d like to ask you a personal question I don’t know if you’ll answer but it’s worth a shot. You’ve mentioned a few times that you had a near death experience and was hospitalized many times in your youth. Going through harsh times that stopped you from doing many things you enjoy or things in general (I assume), how did that affect your faith? Did you have doubts or certain questions towards God? How’d you keep going and stay hopeful? Sorry I know that is insanely personal, it’s just I’ve been going through something physical (it’s also been stressful and life changing) this past year and half and I’m trying my best to stay positive and trust the lord. I know my situation isn’t as bad as your past hardship.
My thoughts of faith wouldn't change. Whether natural disaster, accidents or events from other people. Example: “Go get Isaac, your only son, the one you dearly love! Take him to the land of Moriah, and I will show you a mountain where you must sacrifice him to me on the fires of an altar.” (Genesis 22:2)
Hey Coach. What are your thoughts on Pro Wrestlers joining MMA promotions and fighting in their matches? Do you think it’s a help or hindrance to them? Thank you.
Buckle up because it's a little long, but should help answer a lot... Fair fighting is an invention of people thinking they shouldn't lose. Assuming yours doesn't teach Cobra Kai style maybe your when you're training in your dojo there is an etiquette, however this is because you are both there to learn and help raise each other up... fighting isn't about that (at least not at a professional level, nor a survival level, nor a militaristic level... although we try sometimes to make the last out to be that way, usually to our detriment). Fighting is about trying to make the other guy look really bad, and trying to make yourself look really good at the same time in the same space doing roughly the same thing (I say roughly because if one fighter is doing a bunch of flips to impress and the other is going in for a punch to knock him out both look good, but only one of them was really fighting... the other was just showing off). Where I think it gets confused is that it is considered by many a sport, and so there becomes this weird expectation of sportsmanship... But let's be honest, martial arts has become sport in some cases but it never started as one. Ultimately, however, there will always be 2 expectations of almost all athletes sharing stage with other athletes... win at all cost and make each other look good (this second part is kinda confusing, but fact is people don't want to come see Couture vs Liddell and have the fight drag forever nor do they want to see Rocky vs Apollo and see one of them knocked out in the first 10 seconds... it's good fighting but it's bad entertainment). As long as people are paying a lot of money and there is a lot of money being made the second criteria goes largely unchecked, but when people stop wanting to pay for it because it's just not entertaining anymore then the second rule comes back into play. The hope of coarse is that you can have both without any problems by simply allowing each fighter to find their own best level, after all did anyone ever expect the Rock to take down the Undertaker at WrestleMania?... No, the Rock was always a B level wrestler... but when you heard he was going up against Stone Cold at WrestleMania people bought tickets just for that because the two made each other look unbelievable (sometimes drawing more sales and interest than the "main event"). The Hagler Hearns War was the same way, neither were Ali or Tyson but that fight was unbelievably awesome in the eyes of pretty much anyone that saw it (and if there had been a repeat without a doubt a ton of money would have been made by everyone aside from the spectators... but they're paying to be entertained and if it repeats something like last time will likely spend as much or more next time for the same experience). As mentioned in the Russell Crowe movie Gladiator this has always been the case and always will be. Professional fighting isn't war, and shouldn't be a matter of survival (though some certainly end up that way), but it is definitely a sport therefore a performance... if that performance suffers then everyone suffers, not just the guy whom loses... everyone loses. I would say that any fight in which everyone loses is not a dirty fight but rather simply a bad fight, and any fight where everyone wins is not necessary a clean fight but definitely a good fight... that being said I am not surprised many people can't tell the difference between these concepts and thus begging the question how to make a fight look good. Short answer, people have been trying to get that right for ever... it's an ongoing practice like medicine or art... and it changes frequently. Thanks for reading, now click on here and comment. Lol 🤣
the pet a cake could even be the "dirty move" because as a fighter you know the rules, but the public don't, so if they don't know it you can use it against your opponents public image, but that is still useless to me. the loser of the fight was certain he was going to lose so he didn't want to receive the booing so he tried something to redirect the booing after losing.
Good clean fight? - don’t feign being kicked in the balls just to get a breather in a tough fight (I’ve seen it numerous times) - don’t DELIBERATELY kick someone in the balls, but do it subtly (seen that too). The touching gloves thing is just respectful to your opponent, that’s all. A mutual acknowledgement that you’re about to really hurt eachother, and one of you may genuinely be killed...extremely rare, but possible. It’s pretty rare for ANY fighter to ignore this unspoken rule, but sure, technically it’s perfectly fine to immediately rush someone, or completely ignore the split-second glove-touch and immediately teep them in the face...but you’ll get a reputation as another Charlie Zelenoff. No thanks 🙏
I think it’s fine to differentiate between fighter who often break the rules in order to win, vs fighters who win within the rules. Not to say I have any right to morally judge the people who break the rules, because I’ve never been in their situation before. But what would be wrong with praising fighters who win within the rules. Course that has nothing to do with the extra glove touch
Strategy in competition is inherently dirty. The goal is to win. In combat, whether you win or lose suddenly matters 10,000% more than in any other competition imaginable. Any fighter who competes and wins is a dirty fighter. Period.
Colby Covington with the eye poke in every fight. Then he acts immediately. Chandler and Justin had an eye poke and they both stop and make sure both are good. Some are dirty and some aren't.
"dirty" in the context of MMA is someone who constantly cheats and gets away with it. Petr Yan is a great example. The guy grabs gloves, the cage and hair, kicks/knees downed opponents, sneaks in headbutts, etc. And I do think it's fair to criticize that. Most fouls like these simply can't get penalized harshly immediately, because they can happen accidentally. So you give the benefit of the doubt and let the fight continue. But the rules still explicitly state "don't do that". So yes, constantly doing this to sneak in a small advantage is possible, because it probably won't cost you points. But it's still against the agreed upon rules, so don't do it. Don't milk the unfixable bug in the system. Fighting is ugly, true, but combat sports follow rules like every other sport. And in every sport you follow the rules. Not doing that can give you a victory, but it also makes you an asshole (sorry, I know you don't like swearing, but in this case it's the correct term imo). Now, most professional athletes do that to a degree. Soccer players foul each other or pretend to get fouled to earn a penalty shot, basketball players stall in the last minutes of a game, race car drivers force opponents off the road etc. If you want to do that to win, it's your decision. The rules don't allow it, but the nature of the game let's you get away with it. Enjoy your victory, but don't complain if everyone calls you out for being what you are: a cheap asshole who had to milk the rules to get an edge. Armchair violence and Rob from McDojo recently discussed grooming in martial arts and Rob said something that also applies here, although we're obviously talking about vastly different levels of immorality here: "just because something is technically legal, it doesn't mean it's morally right to do." You asked where the idea of morality/honor in combat sports came from. It's not the movies. It's the basis of society. You don't mistreat your fellow men. And breaking the rules in a mutually agreed competition is a form of mistreatment and in a fight, where the health of the participants is on the line it's even worse. I agreed to you punching me in the face, so that's not mistreatment for the next minutes. But I didn't agree to you poking me in the eye. As soon as you deliberately do that, you discarded your morals and my health to get ahead. Depending on the philosophical perspective, that's not just immoral, that's downright evil. Do you want to be evil?
to me a dirty fight is being so afraid, you soil your underwear, take them off and throw them at the opponent... not that this has ever happened to me.
Idk, I guess I feel like "good clean fights" do and always should exist in sport. When you step in the cage, its not a "real fight". Youre playing a game for money, fame, or whatever. So trying to apply all these "it should be a real fight" rules is counterproductive. Are we brawling for blood or fighting for sport?
I think there's 1: taking advantage of your opponents weaknesses like his assumption that you'll touch gloves, then there's 2:deliberately trying to cheat and getting away with it. I have no problem with the 1st situation. He has an injured leg? kick it. Cut up eye? Throw hooks to that side of the head. Wanting to touch gloves because he wants his fans to see how sportsmanlike he is? BAM. IMANARI ROLL. The 2nd case is absolutely detestable. You enter the ring with pre-established rules and an agreement to follow them. Subverting those roles is horrible. Purposely eye gouging, headbutting, etc, should be enforced very strictly. I don't even recommend doing these things even if they win you fights. Sure, you might get the victory that night, but if opponents never accept a fight with you because they don't want to fight a cheater, then isn't your career as a fighter compromised?
It does look really cool 🙂 however the referee always says things suggestive for sanctity like, "if you're not going to touch gloves walking in, please do so now." It leaves options: touching gloves to separate themselves in clash-like fashion while at the ref, or the staredown until the second glove touch; the ones with the morals who touch gloves twice, and those with no respect! Touch my glove, homie -- imanari roru 😅👊
I guess a, "good, clean" fight would be along the lines of someone not getting poked in the eye, having the foot stepped on, kicked in the nuts, or hit with a forbidden art, like the Vertebreaker, or something 😂
In all of the thousands of fights I have seen, officiated in, reffed, competed in, judged, and commentated on, I have never once heard a referee say that before, let alone encourage a second glove touch after the bell.
I guess this topic is a pure "fighter topic". A "nice" professional fight is hard to imagine. The spectators want to see good and fair fight. I am not a fighter, but I can imagine (correct me if I am wrong) 2 fighters step in the cage (or ring) with that intention. Of course they will try to win as fast and easy as possible. On the other hand, a fighter (no matter how good he is) will only earn big money if people want to watch his fights. I guess already the Roman gladiators knew this rule.
Basically, any competitive sport is "dirty". Winning requires using the rules in any possible way. In basketball, you are NOT allowed to hit a guy... well... you can do it 5 times before you're expelled from the game, so... you ARE allowed. The only way to have a "clean" fight is when it is not competitive.
@@RamseyDewey which is why every sport has its own rule set, made to steer the competitors towards a type of behavior. If the sport becomes less attractive or more dangerous or anything undesirable, you simply change the rules. Happens all the time.
Was it a fist bump or did he just throw his punch waaay to early? 😉 Hmmm, maybe all those self defence techniques where the opponent leaves his arm out are actually defences against a fist bump... 🤔
The extra glove touch is kinda anachronistic, it's implying gentlemen try boxing for a bit, before any of these new fangled MMA techniques. If you like to shoot, then maybe a bit more distance between you and your opponent favours you. If you're good in the stand up, then you want the other guy to touch gloves and get within range. Or you favour the 'Gong and Dash', this was my first experience of an MMA fight, a friend of mine used to train at the same place as James: ua-cam.com/video/y1AqEoqd2Zc/v-deo.html
For me every professional - one who makes money out of it, for those who always use the word inappropriately - should milk the rules in their favor. Some are obsessed with chivalry, not understanding what the word means and using it more to satisfy their inner 'feeling', at the end of the day being a loser in your profession does not put food on your table. Even now - everyone is glorifying or complaining strategies milking the rules, are they making the sport worst or better, but it's the same just on a different scale as tactical abuse of rules.
Yep, completely spot on. Being a good sportsman is important, but there is a chance for people to do that during the instructions and after the fight. Once the instruction to fight is given, then it's game on, time to be sharp. There have been no breach of the rules of the sport, the instruction to fight was given, dude got caught in a leg lock and got submitted. Nothing about that is unfair. If we're going by that logic then we might as well let our opponents call time out in the middle of the fight if they're taking too much punishment lol. The moment the fight starts be ready, if you aren't, and you lose, then you really have nothing to complain about afterwards. Great video as always coach.
The fist bump is emotionally bullying your opponent to harmlessly close distance
I think glove touching is useful in training where there isn't a referee watching every move, in that it shows both participants are ready to spar and helps avoid unnecessary injuries.
In the context of a professional bout I agree there doesn't seem to be as much need, especially if there is a pre match handshake or glove touch.
Danger! I appreciate the message here. Your logic is flawless.
The two chief instructions of the referee are:
i. Protect yourself at ALL times
ii. Fight!
And, fighting is NOT sparring, while at the same time, sparring is NOT fighting. Thank you for the Lesson(s). Pure Love & Respect.
Two Tigers
When talking about how some fighters incorporate fouls into their strategy, I immediately thought of basketball, and how the last 2 minutes of any game often boils down to an avalanche of intentional fouls as teams try to force possession
Or how some players are experts at drawing shooting fouls, like James Harden. He's fully within the rules and definition of what constitutes a foul, even though it looks super wonky to the eye.
Once the ref/ring official has instructed the fighters to “protect themselves at all times” means put you game face on!
After you’re sent to your corner with instructions to “Fight!” - if you haven’t got your mindset right for the fight… that’s on you.
100% brutal honesty, as usual, Coach - there are the ‘rules’ and then there are the *rules* and ya gotta know em.
That whole fist bump after the referee says “fight” in order to gauge range is something I’ve done in stick fighting. Helps that I’ve only ever fought with people I know I’ll be drinking beer with afterwards though.
I disagree with you sometimes, but you’re spot on this time. I agree with what you said 100%.
yeah me too, last video it happened to me in the "creator clash" but in this one he is spot on
"There's no such thing as a dirty fight when you're fighting to win." - Karen Marie Moning
"If you are not cheating, it means that you are not trying hard enough" I heard this years ago, and it still holds the truth of combat
Sports are not combat
@@davefletch3063 One of the definitions of combat is to "engage in a fight with" so techinically yes a cage fight is combat.
@@fancyphantom8103 it is the difference between a game and life and death. Sport fighting is like little league compared to actual combat
@@davefletch3063So please enlighten me. What is "actual combat"
@@fancyphantom8103 losing means your dead or maimed. There is no referee to stop the fight. Joint manipulations are joint breaks, mor often than not weapons are involved...its not rocket science
Be ready or get folded.
I dunno, instantly hitting an Imanari roll and grabbing a leg lock without taking any damage sounds about as pretty dang clean a win as you can possibly get. Most MMA practitioners can only dream of winning their fights that easily.
Excellent Analysis
In a fight with rules if I'm being pushed to the brink, I don't care about how "nice" I look. I try to push through with mean enough intentions, but I do make sure to genuinely show respect after the fight.
That’s some God Tier equivocation there Ramsey. Nicely done 🤣
My first MMA coach said that it's only illegal if you lose because of it.
“Rules” vs *Rules*
Ref: Protect yourselves at all times
Fighter: *Doesn't protect himself, gets tapped*
Ref: *Calls fight for other fighter*
Fighter: *Surprised Pikachu face*
Yeeellllloooooohhhh. I love these videos boss. Keep it up. And keep the yhhhheeeelllloooo at the beginning.
I remember when Mayweather got headbutted like 3 times by Victor Ortiz one of them with real intent to injure, dude tried to act like a wild ram. After the third Ortiz went for the fist bump and Floyd just layed him out. I couldn't believe the reaction from Larry Merchant after, ridiculing and calling Floyd the dirty fighter. So much dirty stuff happens in a fight that absolutely no one notices, but the chumps get restless over paddy cake 🤨
#floyddidnothingwrong
As a fighter. I rarely touch gloves. We're not in there to be nice to each other. Respect is after the fight. Good video
I also hates how it ruins the pacing of the fight. I want 1...2...3 ready and who ever has better reflexes should jump first and give the first attack.
Not this we don't know what is the exact moment when the fight actually begins...
Fist bumps are great to see. BEFORE OR AFTER the fight! You can touch up again at the start of a round. But don't get pissed if the other guy doesn't comply at thar time! Sportsmanship is great to see. But when it's time to fight. PUT EM UP SON!!
Yup. Protect yourself at all times.
Ramsey could you do a video about the long guard in the context of boxing? It is something that fascinated me but I can’t seem to find a video that hits the spot.
Check out Jeff Chan, he made a few videos about it in the context of boxing alone
@@jaketheasianguy3307 Oh, I didn’t know about Jeff Chan until now - Thank you
I've always heard the phrase "dirty boxing" in reference to punching in the clinch.
Professional fouling is a thing in all sports. From soccer, to waterpolo, to combat sports.
A point lost means nothing if you knock your opponent out, and knocking him out may be a lot easier if his groin hurts, or eye can't see, or other pain is slowing him.
Professionals understand professional fouling, laymen don't.
every argument I needed got mentioned in the first 3min of the video
Good points
thats actually a good point lol never even thought about that
I think the big difference between dirty boxing and dirty fighting (MMA or otherwise) is the extremely limiting ruleset of boxing. The more restrictive a ruleset, the easier it is to be seen as dirty.
Arm drags might be dirty boxing, but not dirty fighting. I'd expect a lot of boxers, even ones that think arm drags are dirty boxing, would agree arm drags aren't dirty outside the context of boxing. I'd also expect them to think that throwing a bunch at the NCAA Wrestling Championships would be pretty damn dirty, even though they're boxers, and that's what they do. Because it's not what wrestlers do.
But socking your opponent after the bell when he doesn't expect it is dirty fighting whether you're competing in muay thai, boxing, MMA, or karate.
One is dirty because using a loophole in the rules to do something they don't quite expect you to do. The other is just being a dick.
One of Bernard Hopkins' favorite techniques was a lead right straight followed by him coming forward into the clinch and "accidentally" head-butting or shoulder striking his opponent. He was so good at masking it that referees rarely gave him warning about it. Crafty and cunning. He loved punching guys on the hip bone during the clinch too. He'd make sure to punch on the opposite side that the ref was on. Man, great way to screw up a guy's movement for the rest of the fight
"If you find yourself in a fair fight, then your tactics suck" - George Washington, perhaps.
Sounds like something Washington would have said!
It's like "unnecessary roughness" in American Football. The whole enterprise is unnecessary roughness.
My wrestling coach in high school taught us getting the fist into the opponent when clinched up on the ground. That was a filthy tactic, but it worked.
in my opinion every fighter that instigates the gloves touch is the real dirty fighter considering that he would contribute into a tradition that pressures all fighters to follow through in order to avoid being judged but instead putting themselves under a disadvantage and causing a dilemma that could've been easily prevented
Your opponent won't always hear the bell for ending the round and you'll not always hear the bell. You will get hit in the groin and hit some one in the groin. You will get head-butted and you will head-butted.
Not everyone is exceedingly over respectful once the fight has started. Even of it violates you ideal of how fighters should behave, it happens. So you best be prepared to win, regardless of any potentially dirty actions (in your opinion) your opponent might take. Granted, there are jerks like in any other sport. It is a fight.
I've always wondered why fighters don't just stick to touching gloves before the bell? There's usually quite a few opportunities...
Just on the title alone, “agreed”.
So its the difference of being a gentleman (touch glove), being super sportsmanship (wave no to touch glove)
, being competitive (direct take down at start), super competitive (make foul into strategy), dirty (constantly disobey rule and try to avoid penalty)
It’s just good sportsmanship, sign of respect before they’re about to beat the life out of each other.
So, I finally saw my first street fight today....on the streets.
And, it was every bit as un-fight-like as you have described. It was mostly just flailing without connecting, and hair pulling.
Which makes me think....since I don't have any hair...would I win every street fight?
Probably. No one really wants to fight you on the streetz when you have no hair.
It’s shocking how un-fight like most street fights are, and even more shocking how much the participants brag about how intense and insane and violent it was afterward.
I feel like a lot of people's definition of a 'dirty' move would be any advantageous action taken after a clearly well-intentioned action from an opponent. I see both sides of the argument. Defend yourself at all times is the GOLDEN rule. I mean, it's told to literally everyone in every combat sport. But I personally couldn't feel comfortable knowing some dude just reached his hand out for a bump/shake and I drop him for it.
There's one of chapters in Game of Thrones when Bron, which was a selsword, duels a knight and kills him, the lady of the castle argues" but sir, you didn't fight like a knight!!!" And Bron replies"yep, he did"...
When Alex v & max Holloway touch gloves every round, I read it as saying "we're both badasses, respect for getting to where you've got, we're both just doing a job, we'll be mates afterwards even if I knock your head off"
Probably something they need to discuss before the match, & smesh them all over social media should someone break their word
Dirty fighting is where you break a rule to gain an advantage
When your not Paroding me or demeaning the level of wrestlers I've trained with @Ramsey Dewey I often agree...glove touch at the center not at the beginning of the round except for the last round of a Championship Fight...where I see it as a sign of acknowledgement that both were good or touch enough to make it this far. I did before at center or salute or bow no glove tough and none of this hugging stuff until after...it's the hurt business...when the round is on you're job is to hurt the other guy. Do your job every second and stop staring in the mirror. Also, Niel isn't the only one taught to be SADISTIC by Uncle Gene
Dirty boxing was a term used for pre modern era boxing tactics. These tactics were used because gloves were smaller so clinching was used more. Namely Jack Johnson was amazing in the clinch. Personally I don't view it as dirty. As opposed to nut crackers like Andre Ward and Bernard Hopkins
Hi Ramsey big fan of the videos just wondering what martial arts do you think is best for kids to start off with my kids do MMA and Thai boxing . But I just wondered what you think is the best martial arts for kids to start off with for a practical self defense
The only thing that would be dirty If. I signal for glove touch You agree As you go to touching the glove I throw a cheap shot. But The ref says fight it's go time. And you're not required to be a sportsman. Outside the rules of the cage.
Right on. Is it dirty? Yes. Is punching someone in the face dirty? Yes. It's a fight. One guy decided to fight, the other decided to try to fist bump after being TOLD to fight.
Yeah get your handshakes or whatever signs of respect you display out of the way prematch and after match. Once the bell rings it’s on.
Or twist his ears is legal
I always assumed that "clean", ment by the rules
Hearing Ramsey use an Aussie slang term is priceless!
nice 😁👍 My gym is called Dirty boxing but it's because of my crapy sense of humor. "Dirty boxing, get your hands dirty" 😅 Not something that people tend to forget 😉
"In your safe space in your face" Haha yes Ramsey
Hey Ramsey i have a question but before that i hope you and your family are making it through the lockdown okay. Now I'm having trouble in sparring were I'm holding back to much so much so that its not only effecting me and my training but my gym mates as well i don't know why but i have this huge fear of hurting them which i know sounds dumb but i honestly can't help it because i don't want to ruin there career by giving them concussions or damaging there internal organs. How do you think i should get over this fear? And did you ever go through this yourself?
Hello Mr Dewey I’d like to ask you a personal question I don’t know if you’ll answer but it’s worth a shot. You’ve mentioned a few times that you had a near death experience and was hospitalized many times in your youth. Going through harsh times that stopped you from doing many things you enjoy or things in general (I assume), how did that affect your faith? Did you have doubts or certain questions towards God? How’d you keep going and stay hopeful? Sorry I know that is insanely personal, it’s just I’ve been going through something physical (it’s also been stressful and life changing) this past year and half and I’m trying my best to stay positive and trust the lord. I know my situation isn’t as bad as your past hardship.
My thoughts of faith wouldn't change. Whether natural disaster, accidents or events from other people. Example:
“Go get Isaac, your only son, the one you dearly love! Take him to the land of Moriah, and I will show you a mountain where you must sacrifice him to me on the fires of an altar.” (Genesis 22:2)
If they wanted some padded down, friendly fights, they should have stuck to their kid karate classes or just live a less violent lifestyle
"get out there and train" we're going to have to if we don't want our limbs torn off and be slapped around with the wet bit.
Being a good sport before and after is what a gentleman does. But once the bell rings and it's go time, you have to let that Super Saiyan unleash.
Er, can't find the link to that previous video you talked about at the start of this one................
ua-cam.com/video/q8HqW_z-9eo/v-deo.html
Hey Coach. What are your thoughts on Pro Wrestlers joining MMA promotions and fighting in their matches? Do you think it’s a help or hindrance to them? Thank you.
Where is the video of you talking about arm dragging in Boxing?
Here’s one of them: ua-cam.com/video/hEsYS_R45HM/v-deo.html
Buckle up because it's a little long, but should help answer a lot...
Fair fighting is an invention of people thinking they shouldn't lose. Assuming yours doesn't teach Cobra Kai style maybe your when you're training in your dojo there is an etiquette, however this is because you are both there to learn and help raise each other up... fighting isn't about that (at least not at a professional level, nor a survival level, nor a militaristic level... although we try sometimes to make the last out to be that way, usually to our detriment). Fighting is about trying to make the other guy look really bad, and trying to make yourself look really good at the same time in the same space doing roughly the same thing (I say roughly because if one fighter is doing a bunch of flips to impress and the other is going in for a punch to knock him out both look good, but only one of them was really fighting... the other was just showing off).
Where I think it gets confused is that it is considered by many a sport, and so there becomes this weird expectation of sportsmanship... But let's be honest, martial arts has become sport in some cases but it never started as one. Ultimately, however, there will always be 2 expectations of almost all athletes sharing stage with other athletes... win at all cost and make each other look good (this second part is kinda confusing, but fact is people don't want to come see Couture vs Liddell and have the fight drag forever nor do they want to see Rocky vs Apollo and see one of them knocked out in the first 10 seconds... it's good fighting but it's bad entertainment). As long as people are paying a lot of money and there is a lot of money being made the second criteria goes largely unchecked, but when people stop wanting to pay for it because it's just not entertaining anymore then the second rule comes back into play. The hope of coarse is that you can have both without any problems by simply allowing each fighter to find their own best level, after all did anyone ever expect the Rock to take down the Undertaker at WrestleMania?... No, the Rock was always a B level wrestler... but when you heard he was going up against Stone Cold at WrestleMania people bought tickets just for that because the two made each other look unbelievable (sometimes drawing more sales and interest than the "main event"). The Hagler Hearns War was the same way, neither were Ali or Tyson but that fight was unbelievably awesome in the eyes of pretty much anyone that saw it (and if there had been a repeat without a doubt a ton of money would have been made by everyone aside from the spectators... but they're paying to be entertained and if it repeats something like last time will likely spend as much or more next time for the same experience). As mentioned in the Russell Crowe movie Gladiator this has always been the case and always will be.
Professional fighting isn't war, and shouldn't be a matter of survival (though some certainly end up that way), but it is definitely a sport therefore a performance... if that performance suffers then everyone suffers, not just the guy whom loses... everyone loses. I would say that any fight in which everyone loses is not a dirty fight but rather simply a bad fight, and any fight where everyone wins is not necessary a clean fight but definitely a good fight... that being said I am not surprised many people can't tell the difference between these concepts and thus begging the question how to make a fight look good. Short answer, people have been trying to get that right for ever... it's an ongoing practice like medicine or art... and it changes frequently.
Thanks for reading, now click on here and comment. Lol 🤣
the pet a cake could even be the "dirty move" because as a fighter you know the rules, but the public don't, so if they don't know it you can use it against your opponents public image, but that is still useless to me. the loser of the fight was certain he was going to lose so he didn't want to receive the booing so he tried something to redirect the booing after losing.
Hows the lockdown going?
Out of a small cage and into a slightly bigger cage.
A good clean fight = A Tennis or a rock paper scisors match maybe ?
Good clean fight?
- don’t feign being kicked in the balls just to get a breather in a tough fight (I’ve seen it numerous times)
- don’t DELIBERATELY kick someone in the balls, but do it subtly (seen that too).
The touching gloves thing is just respectful to your opponent, that’s all. A mutual acknowledgement that you’re about to really hurt eachother, and one of you may genuinely be killed...extremely rare, but possible.
It’s pretty rare for ANY fighter to ignore this unspoken rule, but sure, technically it’s perfectly fine to immediately rush someone, or completely ignore the split-second glove-touch and immediately teep them in the face...but you’ll get a reputation as another Charlie Zelenoff. No thanks 🙏
But youve already touched gloves, the second one is retarded
I think it’s fine to differentiate between fighter who often break the rules in order to win, vs fighters who win within the rules. Not to say I have any right to morally judge the people who break the rules, because I’ve never been in their situation before.
But what would be wrong with praising fighters who win within the rules.
Course that has nothing to do with the extra glove touch
Cage fighting is quite literally survival of the fittest
The day I take you down, Ramsey, is a day I can assure you I am breaking every rule in the book.
the fighters need to touch gloves again..... after the fight
Strategy in competition is inherently dirty. The goal is to win. In combat, whether you win or lose suddenly matters 10,000% more than in any other competition imaginable. Any fighter who competes and wins is a dirty fighter. Period.
I see Egg, I click Egg
is ramsey dewey the egg
@@firedude339 Egg with some brown nesting underneath it.
Colby Covington with the eye poke in every fight. Then he acts immediately. Chandler and Justin had an eye poke and they both stop and make sure both are good. Some are dirty and some aren't.
Pistol duelling?
"dirty" in the context of MMA is someone who constantly cheats and gets away with it. Petr Yan is a great example. The guy grabs gloves, the cage and hair, kicks/knees downed opponents, sneaks in headbutts, etc. And I do think it's fair to criticize that. Most fouls like these simply can't get penalized harshly immediately, because they can happen accidentally. So you give the benefit of the doubt and let the fight continue. But the rules still explicitly state "don't do that". So yes, constantly doing this to sneak in a small advantage is possible, because it probably won't cost you points. But it's still against the agreed upon rules, so don't do it. Don't milk the unfixable bug in the system. Fighting is ugly, true, but combat sports follow rules like every other sport. And in every sport you follow the rules. Not doing that can give you a victory, but it also makes you an asshole (sorry, I know you don't like swearing, but in this case it's the correct term imo). Now, most professional athletes do that to a degree. Soccer players foul each other or pretend to get fouled to earn a penalty shot, basketball players stall in the last minutes of a game, race car drivers force opponents off the road etc. If you want to do that to win, it's your decision. The rules don't allow it, but the nature of the game let's you get away with it. Enjoy your victory, but don't complain if everyone calls you out for being what you are: a cheap asshole who had to milk the rules to get an edge.
Armchair violence and Rob from McDojo recently discussed grooming in martial arts and Rob said something that also applies here, although we're obviously talking about vastly different levels of immorality here: "just because something is technically legal, it doesn't mean it's morally right to do."
You asked where the idea of morality/honor in combat sports came from. It's not the movies. It's the basis of society. You don't mistreat your fellow men. And breaking the rules in a mutually agreed competition is a form of mistreatment and in a fight, where the health of the participants is on the line it's even worse. I agreed to you punching me in the face, so
that's not mistreatment for the next minutes. But I didn't agree to you poking me in the eye. As soon as you deliberately do that, you discarded your morals and my health to get ahead. Depending on the philosophical perspective, that's not just immoral, that's downright evil. Do you want to be evil?
to me a dirty fight is being so afraid, you soil your underwear, take them off and throw them at the opponent... not that this has ever happened to me.
Idk, I guess I feel like "good clean fights" do and always should exist in sport. When you step in the cage, its not a "real fight". Youre playing a game for money, fame, or whatever. So trying to apply all these "it should be a real fight" rules is counterproductive. Are we brawling for blood or fighting for sport?
I think there's
1: taking advantage of your opponents weaknesses like his assumption that you'll touch gloves, then there's
2:deliberately trying to cheat and getting away with it.
I have no problem with the 1st situation. He has an injured leg? kick it. Cut up eye? Throw hooks to that side of the head. Wanting to touch gloves because he wants his fans to see how sportsmanlike he is? BAM. IMANARI ROLL.
The 2nd case is absolutely detestable. You enter the ring with pre-established rules and an agreement to follow them. Subverting those roles is horrible. Purposely eye gouging, headbutting, etc, should be enforced very strictly. I don't even recommend doing these things even if they win you fights. Sure, you might get the victory that night, but if opponents never accept a fight with you because they don't want to fight a cheater, then isn't your career as a fighter compromised?
Cowboy Cerrone is the worst in that regard, fist bumps every 2 minutes.
It does look really cool 🙂 however the referee always says things suggestive for sanctity like, "if you're not going to touch gloves walking in, please do so now." It leaves options: touching gloves to separate themselves in clash-like fashion while at the ref, or the staredown until the second glove touch; the ones with the morals who touch gloves twice, and those with no respect! Touch my glove, homie -- imanari roru 😅👊
I guess a, "good, clean" fight would be along the lines of someone not getting poked in the eye, having the foot stepped on, kicked in the nuts, or hit with a forbidden art, like the Vertebreaker, or something 😂
In all of the thousands of fights I have seen, officiated in, reffed, competed in, judged, and commentated on, I have never once heard a referee say that before, let alone encourage a second glove touch after the bell.
Pat a cake session. Lol 😆
And I always thought, dirty boxing is the western word for Panatukan... 🤔
I like it when a fighter goes for a post bell fist bump but then sucker punches his opponent 😂 if it's not against the rules it's not dirty...
I guess this topic is a pure "fighter topic". A "nice" professional fight is hard to imagine. The spectators want to see good and fair fight. I am not a fighter, but I can imagine (correct me if I am wrong) 2 fighters step in the cage (or ring) with that intention. Of course they will try to win as fast and easy as possible. On the other hand, a fighter (no matter how good he is) will only earn big money if people want to watch his fights. I guess already the Roman gladiators knew this rule.
What if mma fights were done in a mud pit?
‘If you’re fighting a fair fight you’re tactics suck.’- a random UA-cam commenter.
If it's :good and clean" it wasn't a fighrt.
Basically, any competitive sport is "dirty". Winning requires using the rules in any possible way. In basketball, you are NOT allowed to hit a guy... well... you can do it 5 times before you're expelled from the game, so... you ARE allowed. The only way to have a "clean" fight is when it is not competitive.
Can you imagine what freestyle wrestling would look like if the athletes could hit each other once, let alone five times before getting DQ’d?
@@RamseyDewey which is why every sport has its own rule set, made to steer the competitors towards a type of behavior. If the sport becomes less attractive or more dangerous or anything undesirable, you simply change the rules. Happens all the time.
Random fun fact about c0ckfighting: They attach razor blades to the chickens' feet.
. . . Nothing good and clean about that.
Well said, Filthy Ramsey San!🤭
I don't know man Miyagi was hitting people in the spine and balls rather freely I don't think that man was a fun of rules
Was it a fist bump or did he just throw his punch waaay to early? 😉
Hmmm, maybe all those self defence techniques where the opponent leaves his arm out are actually defences against a fist bump... 🤔
Paul Vunak was the dirtiest of them all!
Then you haven't heard of W.E Fairbairn lol. No disrespect to mr Vunak of course
I've seen a few point karate matches in the Olympics that were awfully nice nothing nasty about them
The extra glove touch is kinda anachronistic, it's implying gentlemen try boxing for a bit, before any of these new fangled MMA techniques. If you like to shoot, then maybe a bit more distance between you and your opponent favours you. If you're good in the stand up, then you want the other guy to touch gloves and get within range. Or you favour the 'Gong and Dash', this was my first experience of an MMA fight, a friend of mine used to train at the same place as James: ua-cam.com/video/y1AqEoqd2Zc/v-deo.html
For me every professional - one who makes money out of it, for those who always use the word inappropriately - should milk the rules in their favor.
Some are obsessed with chivalry, not understanding what the word means and using it more to satisfy their inner 'feeling', at the end of the day being a loser in your profession does not put food on your table.
Even now - everyone is glorifying or complaining strategies milking the rules, are they making the sport worst or better, but it's the same just on a different scale as tactical abuse of rules.