STEAL this Mechanic: Vampire the Masquerade for D&D
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- Опубліковано 20 лип 2024
- Today’s video is all about ✨THEFT✨ - we’re stealing the Relationship Map idea from Vampire: The Masquerade for our D&D games! This tool will take your players' interest in their quests and in each other to the next level AND make your life as a DM easier to boot. We’ll cover what a Relationship map is, what things you should include, and how it can improve your D&D game!
00:00 Steal this Mechanic
00:20 What is a Relationship Map?
02:12 Relationship Map Example
11:09 Vampire the Masquerade for D&D
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#DnD #CurseOfStrahd #DungeonsAndDragons #RPGTips - Розваги
Do you use something similar to V:tM's Relationship Maps? What other game systems have mechanics that you like to "borrow" from?
I really like the momentum/threat system in Dune: Adventures in the Imperium. Players gain points of momentum if they roll more successes than they need to, and can use that momentum at a later point to buy more dice. If they want to buy more dice but don't have any momentum, they can instead generate threat points for the gamemaster, which works the same way but for npcs opposing the party.
So a player can acchieve something now, and pay for it by giving an advantage to the opponents.
That mechanic would probably work in most games that have some currency that lets you reroll or buy dice like FATE or Shattered Moon.
Borrow, or rob?
@@Saniello Oooh I haven’t read through that one yet, I’m excited to check it out and give it a whirl!
@@janehuskmann1914 Or a secret fancy third option - “reappropriate”? 😂
I enjoy using Fiasco's sharing relationships to the person to the left and right of you, as well as sharing needs, pretty similar to this I'll give this a try.
The *best* game mechanic worth "stealing" is from a kid's tabletop RPG, _Magical_ _Kitties_ _Save_ _the_ _Day:_ During the character creation stage players read through a Choose-Your-Own-Adventure-style story, where their choices determine both their character's initial stats and backstory.
I’ll have to read through it! I’ve actually really wanted to play that one- I played Heckin’ Good Doggos with a parent who was learning it to play it for their kids and had a BLAST so I’m sure Magical Kitties isn’t any different!
VTM acknowledged, all is good in the world
I found your channel during Kraken Week and I'm glad I did. I even made reference to your adventure hooks video in my own. Love the content and gaming tips!
Ahhhh thank you so much! 😊 Your video is definitely on my list! Slowly but surely I’m watching every single one!
Ditto!
We desire . . . a Shrubbery! You said easily obtainable.
A Shrubbery you may have! But only if you defeat the Black Beast of Arrrghhh first 😉
just watch out for the Knights who say Neet!
@@tomjohnson4922I hear they have a new name now, didn't catch what the name was, they got incredibly Irrate when I asked what 'it' was changed to
@@unluckystaravia2352 I think as long as everyone can avoid the taunting Frenchmen, we should be okay.
I am going to be entirely honest. I tried to make a relationship map for a vampire game and it was exhausting. I felt like I needed to write a short novella just to finally be a Vampire Cowboy who does bounty hunting. Like it was more work than I have ever put into any other character. I didn’t get to play him for very long but I spent the better part of a month making him so I can’t get rid of him.
That’s… unusual. It took our group about 2 hours for our entire session zero for V:tM. That includes full character creation, relationship maps, discussion of attendance expectations, etc. Everything.
I think it’s okay for certain games or mechanics to not vibe with certain people! I always say that I’m “Theater Kid Adjacent” so I love doing a super deep dive into my characters AND everybody else’s 😂 But I’m definitely the type of person who likes to write pages of lore and background for my PCs in D&D (for my eyes only obviously haha), so I can see where other people would find it exhausting!
Reading this I can't help but feel like something's off about your approach. It shouldn't feel it shouldn't take more than a few minutes So write down some lines on the paper with some opinions attached to it.
@@endorsedbryce Honestly it took our group a bit, but a lot of that had to do with character creation as a whole our first time. It was a process I loved and I definitely pre-read everything, but I can understand where it might not be everyone’s cup of tea 🤷♀️ Some people are much more comfortable with more emergent style of character creation and backstory development and prefer it to happen as they go - and some of us are theatre kids 😂😂😂
As for some of the comments, I can struggle with writing, and I was also trying to learn the system and figure out everything mechanically. And then I had to create information for about half a dozen characters. Which was, very tiring. It was the most prep that I had to put into a character.
THIS IS GOLD. God I hadn't even thought of porting this over!!! Thanks for cracking my mind open.
Doing this definitely makes the setting feel more alive.
We ended up using the relationships section in Candela Obscura, which are meant for PC connection ideas, to make a side cast of V5 style NPCs attached to our characters.
Yesss I also really like the relationship section in CO! That’s a great way to use that!
I prefer the relationship map that happens in Fiasco, since it is usually not just connections, but also comes with an inbuilt tension.
I definitely love doing Fiasco style maps! I know they’re not some people’s favorite because they don’t love interparty tension… but I do! 😂
Within the first minute every Rogue player left 🤣 “living NPCs”
Lol! That "because we're not savages" needs to be a recurring clip. 😂
Nice content! I've been finding that TTRPG content can be really general, so it's nice to see videos that are more "ok, there's this, this is how it works, feel free to use it" rather than a long lists of "oh it depends"
Thank you for the kind words! And it’s for sure very general! Different things work for different GMs looking for different vibes at different tables and the best way to explore what you like is seeing what’s out there and trying things you’re interested in! 😊
Good stuff. My personal favorite are the hometown and relationship questions from Kids on Bikes. They are very quick and evocative. I use them in almost all my games now.
Yesss I love Kids on Bikes! I’ll definitely be highlighting that one at some point 😊
I played a lot of VtM, and looking at my DMing prep, I'm laughing because I've already nabbed for it and didn't realise it.
I also like the VtM influence rules, and it works well in D&D, but you have to restrict the amounts.
It’s such a good system for storytelling, I imagine the more I play the more that’ll probably happen too! 😂
I see the "3" and "5" on youe shirt and kept thinking "3.5e", Fun with ADHD 😂
I've been debating on trying this for awhile, but I haven't been running long term D&D games to really use it.
There is a similar thing in Kids on Bikes that revolves around a Q&A session with the players to establish how they know and what they feel about each other. It's been a lot of fun to incorporate into session 0.
I love Kids on Bikes! I’ve only been a player in that one for short games, I’ll have to read through it! 😊
@@StephaniePlaysGames I've only played a few myself, but I'm planning a Kids on Brooms game so I'm finally digging into the rules as written. The Q&A portion really is a stream lined version of the VtM method that focuses on the players more than the setting. It lacks the touch stones and other NPCs but really encourages the players to build bonds instead. My players have also been eager to bring it into other systems on their own, so that says a lot to me.
Fun ideas presented well 😀
Thanks for the kind words!
Good channel and good topic! I have been playing and, more often tbh, reading RPGs for decades and I have quite a few of these. Subscribed! To answer your questions, I have certainly thought in relationship maps, but have never written one up. Might do so if I ever publish anything, though. As for your second question, the game that has the most usable mechanics in a D&D game to me is Unknown Armies. Its schools of magic would make good magical items, the avatar system would make a good alternative boon/warlock system, and its madness meters could be mapped to ability scores for those wanting more psychological horror in their games.
Yesss I also love to read through RPG systems and settings! I’ve actually never heard of Unknown Armies and now I’m very excited to add it to my reading list! 😊
@@StephaniePlaysGames If you liked Vampire, you *may* like Unknown Armies, since it's also a "hidden world" modern fantastic horror, but imagine instead of vampires conspiring against each other in Gothic skyscrapers, it's the cast of Tiger King. Who also happen to be wizards. If nothing else, I do think Greg Stolze is one of the most skilled prose stylists in the industry.
Stephanie, WHYY....er, I mean, subscribed 💜
JEN! 💕😂 Thanks friend!
Cool idea. I definitely like anything that gets players more invested.
I have a slight challenge doing this with a fallout campaign i started. They are all childhood friends that grew up in the same vault (players decided this unanimously). So there is already a ton of best buddy energy and their collective desire is to protect their vault relatives from the wasteland that they just stepped out into for the first time ever. It's been both easy for me as GM, and hard in some ways to make more complex life long connections like your map. We decided to do "campfire stories" where the players roundtable and make up stories on the spot that automatically become canon. My hidden reason has been to find people from their past i can then "put at risk" or involve in the campaign arc. Fun campaign so far. Never done anything like it before.
Oh man! I really want to try Fallout! The book is so pretty and I’ve always loved the games. I actually really love the way you tried to troubleshoot that, it’s funny and it’s a proactive player choice for who they bring on stage for you to target 💁♀️😂 I feel like as you go there’ll be other NPCs they latch onto as well!
Apocalypse Keys goes even further, driving inter-party attachments out of the character creation process, building this relationship map using Bonds, and then allowing the players to utilize those bonds in roleplaying moments to alter dice rolls. It is a core component of the game engine, rather than an optional bolt-on.
Oooooh I’ll have to check it out! I actually think it’s in my library because I’m pretty sure a friend enjoys their character creation as well. Thanks for the recommendation! ☺️
I've never done the relationship map. Does everyone work on it together or is this just for the GM. But whenever I run a one shot I always use the fog from curse of strahd to trap everyone in one area so the one shot doesn't become a 15 shot lol
Everyone makes it together! It’s really fun, especially when one character admires another but that character thinks they’re annoying and stuff like that 😂 And for sure those characters can’t actually escape without *ahem* doing THE THING, but I really like the lack of metagaming so I thought it’d be a reasonable goal at the start of the game before they have to alter it
@@StephaniePlaysGames you must run the best games
Hahaha I don’t know about that- but I do know that I certainly try to!!
A mechanic I’d like to see stolen is Loresheets from Legends of the Wulin.
Oooooh I don't know that one! I'm definitely going to look into it! 😊
hmm interesting... I like it. My plan once my current campaign is over is to run a more intrigue, political, more roleplay heavy one where someone tries to assassinate the king... this concept would come in handy.
Yesss I love political intrigue! I highly recommend looking at Justin Alexander’s blog and/or book if you haven’t already - he has some really great tips for this sort of thing too!
❤
Cats are sentient, they are not sapient. Humans are sentient and sapient. Trees are neither.
I have had very few players who want to invest this much into the role playing and the setting. How do you motivate this level of involvement? Also, as a DM, how do you keep up with it and reinforce it from session to session? It feels like a ton of work.
It is a lot of work, and it is certainly not for everyone and every party but it can be rewarding to watch it grow and change.
For better or worse you can't really motivate anyone to do these things if they aren't interested. You could however keep a modified version around for the players that are interested in the form of an in character journal. I've found that when one or two players are into it that is when the others will start taking notice. It's especially easy on a VTT where you can set it in the side bar and allow everyone access to read it.
I think in some ways I’m very lucky because my groups tend to go with the flow whenever I say I’m interested in trying something. I’m also very much a tinkerer by nature and very enthusiastic so I think a lot of people get excited just because I’m very excited. With that disclaimer thrown out there, I always just approach things with “Hey, I saw/tried this cool new thing and want to give it a shot with our group! If you guys hate it, we’ll only do it this once”. That way it’s low pressure and they don’t feel like every change is automatically permanent, it’s just opening the floor for discussion.
As for being a ton of work - I don’t keep up with it. I just facilitate everybody creating this together, and then as far as necessary updates like Desires I just have everybody update theirs the last 10 minutes of a session. So everybody is a hostage until it’s done, but they’re chatting about the session and being a hostage together! 😂 If that isn’t an option I just wouldn’t stress making sure their character is deeply tied into the story, I’d let them know that updating their Desire is the way to communicate with me so I know what they’re interested in - but some people just want to show up and roll some dice and that’s okay to me too!
Also agree with this - I’ve had proactive players get to have cooler moments because they’re more involved with things like this and then other characters start also becoming more proactive and invested! 😂
When you just lay out things in front of them and start asking directed questions. I think you'll find that people will get invested if you just offer them direction.
So the 2 different D&D 5e campaigns that I run I basically kidnapped the party and thrust them in another part of the world. No relationship with each other, and no connection to their past lives, and a rampant end of the world scenario happening... so definitely no time for any ties or relationships etc. 😅 I may be a bit railroady, but they are enjoying it. Next campaign I will probably try to use something like this to connect them with the world a little more.
Bahahaha I think that sounds like a blast! I think people are fine with a little bit more railroady stuff when you’re setting things up, especially if everyone’s having fun! 😊
Sound like my worst nightmare game
Ah yes, I * checks notes * …hate seeing what story ideas my friends have…
Next time, use some kind of mind mapping program to create the map. Your handwriting was hard to read on that paper.
You can make the map in stages, taking screenshots or exporting it along the way.
Great idea to apply relationship maps to D&D.
#boycottWotC
I sort of agree. The pen was low contrast, although I loved the paper and the flavor of being handwritten. The hard part is always making something the audience can work with. Speaking as someone who has to write slowly to write clearly, I'm going to counter point and suggest the handwritten form has great flavor, but maybe use higher contrast ink, and write a smidgen more slowly, then speed it back up again in editing. In any case, you do you, because your energy, passion, and thought you put into your vids is what makes you fun to watch 😀
Having done a few of these, I feel like you've glossed over the best part relationship maps. That's when you start making connections between different players' touch stones or other players characters and touchstone's, or touchstones and major NPCs.
Here you have PCs associated NPCs are mere bullet points. Give them their own bubble near the player characters. But further to the outside of the circle.
Then give two or three major NPCs their own bubbles in the middle.
Then during session zero we not only define the lines between the PCs. But also between each NPC and their touchstones. (Not all touchstones are positive or mutual relationships)
However where it starts to get good is when we choose to draw lines between any two NPC bubbles.
Perhaps your Sweet grandmother, is it ghoul or informant of another PC. Maybe your Sire is the bitter rival of another PC's sire.
Of course these relationships while known by the players aren't known by the payer characters at the start of the game. Leading to naturally occurring future conflicts and drama to be resolved later. I've seen entire plots weaved entirely out of the NPC to NPC connections that someone choose to throw down on the relationship map at session zero.
I wish we could just use ancestry/heritage/lineage instead of "species". It feels to me like even further in a direction away from all these different kinds of people just being people.
No. We get enough of that nonsense in real life. The species/races are different. Humans aren't elves. That's the reality of fantasy worlds. Those differences are interesting. Making everyone the same is boring.