Honestly, I really like the rival trope, especially whenever the two characters actually have a deep respect for each other. Like, Vergil and Dante respect each other, but always end up battling each other and laugh it off as just "How they've been since they were kids" or how Sonic and Knuckles compete but in a more friendlier manner and turn things into a silly competition.
raiden and sam as well, raiden doesn't cut sam into pieces like he does with other bosses edit: raiden also sheathes sam's blade and gives it to wolf to keep 'in memory of sam' after he's killed
To me, I think rivalry is about the motivation of the characters and not just for the sake of being bad. And it could take on different forms besides the villains or jerk tropes. Depending on the story, it can bring the characters more in depth and flesh them out more
"Rivalry is about the *motivation* of the characters" Precisely why Vergil is simply the greatest and sexiest rival character of all time, seconded only by Jetstream Sam.
@@TheActualRealDrPepper Commitment is also big in things. Rivalries don't pan out if the characters aren't committed. Pokemon rivals, amirite? Vergil and Dante are super committed, I mean Vergil's life is essentially his rivalry by DMC5, so that's something else that matters.
My favorite dynamic in media is the triangle between hero, villain and rival. Usually the rival isn't the big villain of the story, but will work either along side the villain or against them, but also against the hero. It always culminates satisfyingly.
I love how Vergil , while not the progenitor of rival characters, was done so well that having a character that mirrors the protagonist became a staple of character action games Hell, even Platinum games , a studio largely made up of the people who made the first DMC, took notes from this and have included a rival character with this philosophy in mind, for almost every major game they've made since Jeanne and Jetstream Sam are just the most popular examples
Would the Black or Blacker Baron count as a rival for Jack Cayman, then? I suppose Madworld and Anarchy Reigns aren't *major* games (although Madworld is their firstborn), but you got me curious. NEVERMIND, i suppose in AR Leo is meant to be Jack's rival in a way. I also want to take this opportunity to say that i think the character design in Anarchy Reigns is largely pretty awesome. Big Bull and Douglas Williamsburg for the win!
One thing I wanna add about Dante and Vergil is how they fight when they have each other’s weapons. Vergil fights very similar to Dante when using the force edge, just not doing some things like the sword master skills. Dante, when using the Yamato in DMC 4, uses it like a side-arm in combat, but still knows how to use it like Vergil, showing that they both know how each other fights, likely from observing one another in battle
Something that i always liked was that in DMC4, the Yamato moveset in the Darkslayer Style was a copy-paste of Vergil's combo in DMC3, with the exception of the Judgement Cut. Vergil's JC is fast, precise and almost instant, while Dante's version is slow, more chaotic, really drives home the fact that, even if Dante can immitate Vergil's moves because he has seen them, he doesnt really know how to use them. Even the name changes from "Judgement Cut" to "Slash Dimension".
@@yrgmustard3635 i’d say that dante is still slightly superior just because is a master of multiple styles and weapons. Vergil is more of bruce lee kinda guy(practice one kick 10000 times rather than 10000kicks once)
There's a lot more you can add to wanting Vergil to win. You almost want him to win, because he's processing through his grief in the worst way. Throughout the whole series, Vergil is obsessed with power. Obsessed with the power he didn't have to be able to protect his family. To protect his mother. He becomes so obsessed with it that he's even willing to kill his twin brother, Dante. Time passes on, and Dante has been able to move past his grief. Especially after he meets a young devil hunter with a mysterious arm, Nero. He sorta becomes a mentor figure for him, and it becomes stronger when you eventually learn that Nero is Vergil's son. Dante was finally able to find people he can be close to again. He finally had some semblance of a family. Vergil was alone. He had nobody, because he shut everyone away in his pursuit of ultimate power. In DMC 5, he's literally willing to split his humanity away if it meant he'd be unstoppable. However, Dante was able to connect to both sides of himself. He acknowledges that he's a human that's half demon, instead of demon who's half human. Dante had something Vergil never did, and that's what always allowed him to defeat him. It's not until the end of DMC 5 where he starts to question what his life could've been like. And it's only until he's finally able to connect to his brother and son that he's able to find something he never had. If we get another game, maybe they'll explore more with that. Who knows what they have in store for one of gaming's greatest rival's. I just hope that it's a jackpot.
Vergi is not just a rival, he's an indirect teacher of the game too. He punishes and humiliates button mashers and rewards those who takes the time to learn Dante.
just like any boss should be, also in vergil's case don't forget that in dmc 3 he teaches you his fighting style as you progress the game, somewhat inspiring you to learn his tricks, attacking after the enemy missing, attacking from above, dodging and then punishing
Personally, my favorite Rival in gaming is Dark Pit from Kid Icarus Uprising. For one, he's the physical manifestation of Pit's inner demons. Not only is he stark black compared to Pit's white, but he's also Pit's complete opposite personality-wise. While Pit is heroic, kind, and fiercely loyal to his goddess, Dark Pit is destructive, mean, and disloyal to literally everyone. He refuses to serve anyone and values his freedom too much. In fact, that's the biggest thing about Dark Pit. After stealing Pandora's powers, he gains infinite flight which is something Pit yearns for but can never achieve. Dark Pit can choose whether or not he wants to help someone while Pit has to serve his goddess' every command, almost simp-like even. When you get down to it, one is free, and the other isn't and likely never will be.
I also love the implication that he isn't an "evil copy" or "opposite copy" but a "mirror image" of the "nature" of Pit's soul, freed from the "nurture" of his past.
Pittoo is one of my favorite rival characters despite quite literally being a "clone." Despite him coming off as your typical edgelord rival, he has a shocking amount of depth to him and isn't really that bad of guy. He just looks after himself more than anything.
I've heard a case made that Dark Pit's personality is somewhat an inversion of normal Pit's. Pit's top priority is following Palutena, Dark Pit's is doing what he wants to inside. About medium on their priority list is a shared goal: beating the underworld army into a fine paste. Towards the bottom of Pit's priority, and the top of Dark Pit's, is protecting his image, both to the external and internal direction. To Dark Pit, that means acting the part of the cool disaffected loner archetype, hiding any flaws he has behind that act. He does care, at least a little, but he will let *no one* catch on, since that'd ruin his cool guy persona.
Using your sonic example, I personally love the "win through any means" type of rivals. The example being Metal Sonic. The character simply wanting to prove superiority makes things simple enough where ya can take em really any direction. Metal's been the big bad, the lackey, and in the comics even a reformed good guy. They can have codes, be absolute bastards, help or only hinder the hero's simply cause they wanna win or at least have the chance later to win. To me at least this makes a good rival
Canonically, he was never reformed, and that's the way we sonic fans like it. He is better off never having a redemption just like him never talking, he may get character development but we like him as a cold and angry machine.
The best rivalry trope: when they actively protect each other because they want to fight each other at their peak, or want the satisfaction of beating them themselves.
Good: "I team up with you cuz i want to be the top dog" "I team up with you cuz i fd up" "I team up with you cus I hsve standards" "Im pretending to be weak to see who and what you are both mentally and physically"
Halo 3, the flood team up Master Chief and Arbiter to stop Truth. Grant, Truth army was depleted and back against the wall, but it show that Flood is intelligent to think long term rather just adding two new corpses to stop the ring from firing.
I have to say, Majima is one of the greatest rivals, IMO. I love his insane attitude and how his one goal is to live crazy and make Kiryu stronger to have a better rival overall. It's pretty nice
Honestly I love how before Vergil, video games didn't have the giant push to put a rival into every action game they made. Sure I guess sonic adventure 2 and a few others had it, but it never became apparent until after DMC 3. Even games like metal gear rising and Asura's wrath had to have a rival
there were rivals in games long before vergil, megaman had blues/rockman, street fighter had ken, megaman x had 2 with vile and zero. the list grows alot if you include rpgs, the tales series for example is filled with big rivals like leon or ras(ToD1 and 2). Sephiroth is probably even bigger as an example of rivalry, and i wouldnt doubt vergil in DMC3 was either based or had alot of influence from him.
@@marcosdheleno perhaps, but Vergil was done the best. Hell he only shows up in the games for a few minutes yet you feel the struggle between him and Dante through gameplay. He's the best rival in video games. Others are close, but none surpass Vergil when it comes to narrative through gameplay
Something that really elevates Vergil is how in every game he's in (even when he was Nelo Angelo or Urizen) he is given three dedicated boss fights, where the first time you fight him he wins, the second time even after getting a little stronger is defeated because Dante has grown at a faster rate, and by the third fight he's also stepped up his game and is stronger than ever. It really drives home that not only does the rival push the hero to become stronger, but the hero also pushes the rival. If the rival is always losing they don't feel as much like a rival but just a recurring enemy, and if they're always winning they feel more like they're just a monolith that is always being chased instead of someone who is also growing alongside the MC. For longer running series where rule of 3 can't really hold on it's more about letting the rival and hero trade wins and losses and ensure that they get upgrades in pairs instead of all the new fancy stuff being given to the hero.
This is especially true in 3, story wise specifically, the first fight he doesn't use devil trigger(which a player may or may not expect him to have) and wins, implying how he's so strong that he was basically holding back and still beat dante, the second he finally starts to use his full power and they are basiclly tied but are interrupted and in the third dante wins but they are still pretty close in power levels...
Agreed. Rivals don’t work if you just always stomp them. The trilogy fight in dmc3 is perfect with how it shows the brothers have grown throughout that story. Raiden getting whooped in his first fight with Sam really drives his thirst for revenge in the entire game
When you think about it, Sonic’s got a number of rivals, each with their own goals and reasons to be Sonic’s foils You already talked about Knuckles You have Shadow, a brooding edge lord variant of the speedy blue hedgehog, with the same power and abilities plus his own. Including tapping into the chaos energies, something only Sonic could do in his super form. Unlike Sonic, Shadow uses his power to destroy the world, before he had a quick change of heart Then there’s Jet the Hawk. Cocky, arrogant, carefree and speedy like Sonic, but unlike Sonic being selfless and somewhat altruist, Jet’s a greedy @$$hole who takes whatever he wants, regardless if who gets hurt Then there’s Metal, Sonic’s evil robot doppelgänger. This one’s a bit of a twist. Instead of the protagonist trying to be better than the rival, it’s the other way around. Metal is obsessed with being better than Sonic. Heroes being a prime example. Each fight in the game, Metal is secretly hiding in the shadows,analyzing Sonic and his friends. All to evolve into his perfect form Edit: HOLY [Cungadero] I was not expecting that many likes Edit 2: 500+ Likes? WHERE ARE YOU PEOPLE COMING FROM?!
There's also Blaze in the rival department arguably. Who is a sort of Parallel Sonic of sorts, both being fast and nimble. While Sonic is free and open to others, Blaze is more reserved and calm.
Honestly in terms of Sonic Rivals, Jet felt the most like an actual rival to Sonic. Some like Metal come off as just another obstacle (More due to the poor handling of him later on) or just stop having that kind of rivalry like Knuckles after Adventures. Meanwhile Jet being cocky as Sonic, can actually outspeed Sonic in his own way, and is more of a thief and treasure hunter in comparison to the heroics of Sonic. And sure Jet is an asshole, but there is a comradery between the Babylon Rogues that I like. Wave and Storm bounce off Jet really well as support for him and his goals. And the Babylon Rogues all felt like rivals to their respective characters as well.
@@jacobfoxfires9647 I can totally see Wave as a rival to Tails. The two are equally talented in engineering, and there personalities clash. With Tails as the plucky tike happy to help others, while Wave is egotistical, often acting like the big sister to the Rogues. Even she was impressed by Tails’ hoverboard though never admitted it. So impressed that she was jealous and sabotage it. Storm however I don’t really see as a rival to Knuckles. Not much going between them outside of being meatheads
I just came here to listen praises be told about Vergil and Jetstream Sam, man technically they have little screen time but their impact in the industry and storytelling wise is transcendental.
Personally, for me at least: I would love for a rival to have interactions with characters outside of the player. So it can fully showcase just how special the dynamic between them is. Probably why I loved Hop from Sword/Shield. Also I don't care if they are a jerk or a kindhearted person: as long as I feel they have some semblance of effect on the other characters and/or story, that helps. Frankly I'd even be okay if it showed the two rivals were evenly matched for a good chunk of the story; not always one being better than the other for the whole time.
Something interesting about Hop is that he begins as a rival, but ends as no longer one yet is still a foil. The protagonist and him have the entire recipe to be rivals. - Same goal (want to be champion). Check - Known each other since childhood. Check - Close relationship. Check Yet his story subverts the typical rival trope by making him feel hopeless in reaching you and his brother's level and beating you over time. Rivals are meant to motivate each other towards their owns goals. To go even further beyond! But this one boy just didn't have the drive he thought he had.. His foil works in fact as you get stronger, he seemingly...never does. Even tho he didn't have _that_ much depth to him(since he is a pokemon character), his character arc is something I've never seen anywhere else. Probably because, that character would no longer be a rival anymore.
My favourite part of the team-up with Vergil is that it's multiplayer. If you have another controller connected to your console, another person can use it to play as Vergil
Raziel and Kain from the Legacy of Kain series are a very worthy mention. The most mature rivalry I've ever read, one that was caused by greed and jealousy, but ultimately led to hate as well as pity, respect, admiration, and by the end of the final game, even redemption
I was about to refute your argument based on how the gameplay doesn't make it justice (even when I love these two to death) but then I remembered their final fight in Defiance. Because damn. Controlling Kain first only to switch to Raziel in the second round was a genius move and I screamed at that moment. It truly showcase their rivalry in actual combat, which until then it was mostly a mental battle mixed with a persecution.
My favorite rival in more recent titles is V2. He shows up twice, never says a word, and yet, has so much personality and memorability that it’s impossible not to hate/love the thing.
I feel like you remember V2 too fondly. Sure, his first battle is nothing short of fantastic and memorable. It doesn't have climatic buildup, but instead surprises you with V2's moveset that closely mirrors how most players play the game. It takes player off guard, it is brutal and unforgiving. I had to use assist mode to beat him. But second encounter with V2? He is a joke and isn't much better than in first battle. For some reason, he was much easier for me to defeat in second battle rather than first one. I didn't use assist mode and it took me under 10 attempts. Besides, I think V2 was done dirty. I think he would have worked much better if he was a recurring boss who'd begin weak but get stronger, better and use more weapons as the player massacres through layers. Starting off weak and mirroring a typical beginner player with poor movement and non-existent weapon combo skills, and culminating in an insane dance of quick-drawing, coin flip chaining and shotgun blast parries.
@@crapposter8201 That's just you dude, V2 2nd fight destroyed me many many times, and surprises the player by pulling advanced techs that players would use (coin chaining).
9:59 “conflicting personalities” proceeds to show Ethel and Cammuravi, two commanders from different nations (Keves and Agnus) with arguably similar personalities, serious yet kind.
They were in the game for a short amount of time, but man those 2 made a big impact, also i love how the fandom really wants them to fuck XD, i dunno is just works for some reason.
I would like to add another rival: The Edge from Furi. Even if he only shows up for 5 minutes (or an hour if he beats the shit out of you), this guy is one of the most charismatic videogame characters I ever met, despite the lack of lore. He trained day and night just to fight you and all he wants is to have the most memorable fight of his life. And he has a lot in common with Vergil and Sam: - He's cool af. - His soundtrack is a banger (A Big Day/Something Memorable, by Kn1ght). - He uses a katana (and a f*cking wooden oar) - It requires skill to defeat him. If only he would be a playable character... Plus, he has one of the best quotes: "Excellence is not an art, is pure habit. We are what we repeatedly do".
Bro i loved the edge boss, every time i fight him i play jetstream sams battle theme cuz he reminds me of him so much, but furi is just a good game in general
vergil and jetstream sam are some of my favourite charcaters in any games, period. the rival trope is awesome, especially when both sides care about eachother deep down.
V1 and V2 in ultrakill are great, and they don’t exchange a single word other than “You aren’t getting away this time” outside of that line, all of the story dynamics between them are shared by actions, gameplay, and who he is to your character
@@ultraferal6138 Gabriel works, but I still see V2 as the better fight because he is literally you but stronger, forcing yourself to be the better machine and overcome him
I loved the bayonetta/jeanne rivalry, you have the typical protagonist with a missing memory that is looking for the truth, and an old friend who has to kill her, because if she gets her memory back, the entire world ends. And then they had to screw it up at the ending (she was mind controlled all along) *sigh*
Basing myself out of what I've seen from rivals in videogames up to now, here is what I think a rival should look like : They should be more powerful than you. Throughout the entire game. Even at the end. They are a test, to show that you've truly surpassed them and yoursleves. Making them feel powerful would obviously be through elements such as making a very hard boss, a boss you can't beat, or just make them cool. They also need to reflect the protagonist, but with differences. It makes them feel like they are just as you, and that way it is reflected better that you beat them out of skill. Ofc, the difference only goes so far, they need to be different characters (another reason would be what I wrote above). Obviously, they need to be challenging moraly. The protagonist's whole reason to fight is his ideals, and thus them being questioned, means that your whole reason to fight against the rival is questioned. But what I think is the most overlooked part of a good rival, is that you feel bad for them. As you mentioned in the video, you felt bad for Vergil losing in DMC3, even though that means saving humanity. I may add to that I felt terrible for Sam's death. His death is made so tragic by the fact that he too used to be a protector of justice, but he just lost his way in believing that he couldn't fight against large PMCs such as World Marshal of Desperado. This part of what makes him challenge Raiden's ideals in the first place. Raiden believes that he can stop Marshal/Desperado's plan, while Armstrong is the embodiment of failure in doing so. That ties up really nicely with his death, because Raiden beating Sam means that there IS a chance for PMCs to be challenged. In fact, Raiden manages to shake Sam's beliefs. BUT, in order for Sam to be proven wrong, Raiden MUST kill him. This is why Sam's death is tragic. Raiden was so close to proving to him that there is hope, and to make him go back to the right side, yet he was unable to do so, and never would have been.
I just really love the rival trope in video games. It continues to get better when we have Platinum and the team behind Devil May Cry, in addition to other games regardless of genre. Admired the rivalry between Dante and Vergil, Raiden and Sam, Bayo and Jeanne, Travis and Henry, Kiryu and Majima, Sonic and Knuckles/Shadow/Silver, Sora and Riku/Roxas/Yozora, Red/Ash and Blue/Gary(including everyone else in the franchise), Rex and Jin/Malos, Morrigan and Lilith(among others), Ryu and Ken(and so on), The Wicked Twisters and Darkbringers, even Squall and Seifer. Such a beautiful feat when it comes to challenging the player, watch them improve, and settle the matter. With the rivals having their sympathetic side also; something that video games will always recapture.
There is certainly many rivals even depicted in many different types of media. I think Ryuko and Satsuki from Kill La Kill being very similar to Dante and Vergil in those aspects. But I think video game rivals do stick out the most. Bayonetta and Jeanne being both Umbra witches with a type of history that Bayo forgets, Travis and Henry both being brothers and also having a samurai and knight theme respectfully along with other Eastern and Western influences, and I think my pick being Asura and Yasha. Loved Asura’s wrath and the dynamic between Asura and Yasha was great to see. From them being students under 2 other demigods who are also rivals in their days, Yasha being calm and emotionless and Asura being angry and very emotional, and how they are related with Asura marrying Yasha’s sister and making them brother-in-laws. Even their fighting styles which has Asura being a major brute that pummels enemies vs the clean cuts Yasha can do with his hands. And their final battle, MAAAAAAAAN. Probably my favorite rivalry in all of gaming.
Vergil 1 and 2 were tough, but Vergil 3 had my adrenaline at 200%, clutching my controller so bad, and blinking once a minute... I was playing normal. To be fair, this was after 1 hour of suffering beating Arkham and subsequently accidentally deleting 7 hours of progress at 2am (which I clutched back through in 1:30-ish, pain....)
What I love about Capcom's handling of Vergil in DMC5 is that they boiled down his and Dante's rivalry to a simple coin toss: nature vs nurture. Dante and Vergil were always polar opposites that got along like oil and water, but the fact that we're playing Dante as the "hero" may have been an arbitrary twist of fate. When they were younger, Dante was actually the more antagonistic twin, always taking his brother's stuff and picking fights with him. If Eva hadn't died, or if Vergil had been the one she found first the day he did, Dante may have grown up to be a complete psychopath. He was certainly on his way there before meeting Lady in DMC3, as he didn't care about anyone or anything. But Dante sympathized with Lady and the loss of her family, and it reminded him of his mother's compassion. But if he believed, like Vergil did, that his mother chose to save his brother and left him to die, Dante could have gone completely mad like Joker, or Kefka.
Vergil is absolutely the most top tier picks in terms of video game rivals. Even to this day I can't think of one who comes anywhere near as close as a challenge, and as someone where the player themselves are given a strong motivation to beat Vergil too. Not to mention the deeper meaning behind why Vergil does what he does and how he got there, seeking power so that he can never feel as scared and helpless as he was on the day his family was attacked by demons just adds a delicous layer of sympathy for Vergil, and how hurt he must have been to have chosen this path for himself. And yet despite all his efforts and sacrifice, Dante always wins in the end, one way or another he is set back and punished even more, until he finally starts to open up to Dante's way of doing things and seems to feel a genuine sense of peace by the end of DMC 5, the rivalry between he and his brother Dante is no longer that of hatred but is closer to just friendly competition and fun.
Yup. You hit the nail on the head. You know you have a good rival when you can get your audience to kinda be rooting for them while also rooting for the main character.
I feel like the best rival antagonistic relationship is Borderlands 2 with Handsome Jack (who is the antagonist) I would call him a rival because you were the only vault hunter to survive the train trap so he ups the ante on everything. He constantly calls you to shit talk just to prove a point that he is better and the hero of the story. He sees you as a rival to his power and authority and therefore does everything to stop it. He poses a threat by killing Roland with like zero difficulty, bombing your only safe haven and having already won.
Zuko and azula. This is especially seen at the end in their final Agni Kai with both displaying the skills they have . Zuko who uses multiple stances and forms to block and attack while azula solely relied on her fire power. Etc
Howdy, I’m a writer and I love writing all kinds of rivalries, so I appreciate that you uploaded this video and thought I could add in. I like to use Rivals as both development for characters, as well as something to write aside from the main plot. I like to write Goro Majima style rivals who just pull up out of nowhere, scream “YOU’RE TO LATE I AM ALREADY FORKLIFT CERTIFIED!” Tussle with the hero, and vanish. I especially like having my rivals separate the heroes so there could be a race to deal with the rival character and catch up with the team to fight the bad guy. Okay that’s all I gotta say. ✌️peace.
The Kamen Rider fan has an opinion on Rival Characters? Who woulda thought? To the narrator who gave credit to the first great Rival in the Metal Gear series: you're pretty good. Overall, a great analysis. I know that after everything that was said about him in it, the man in the mirror's nodding his head.
Personally (And I mainly just wanna talk about my favourite rival in Pokémon.) I think a fantastic example of a rival in Pokémon is Silver. I actually think aside from N, he is the best rival. Something really sets him aside from other rivals in Pokémon. He's a jerk, but unlike blue, he's not a lighthearted bratty bully. He's malicious. He hates everyone including you, hiding his own insecurities by calling everyone else weak. His insecurities and hatred never let him get close to anyone and you see this as the game goes on, you see him single handedly want to take down team rocket. All because of the betrayal he felt from his dad. Every time I play, I love seeing his evolution with his Pokémon too. He views Pokémon as tools through most of the game, not giving them the proper care they deserve. And it takes him the entire adventure to realise he was wrong. Along the second half of the game he constantly questioned what he was doing wrong. Until victory road battle, where he finally acknowledges it. He broke down that defence. As he realised this, he began to care fore his Pokémon. His Golbat finally evolved, and if you talk to elm at the end of the game, he mentions Silver tried to give the stolen Pokémon back, only for Elm to let him keep it because the starter loved and cared about Silver. You and his Pokémon helped him recover slightly from the trauma of his past, letting him know it's okay to care for others, and to let them care for you. And this rings true where in the "final rival battle" you don't battle him, you battle beside him. Still as rivals, but without the hatred. I just, love seeing this, perhaps I missed out some bits or even over dramatised them, but I loved this dynamic a lot, as it felt a lot more dramatic than other rivals, and it's fairly hidden if you just don't pay attention, similar to N. It's what makes them great.
I'm with you on rivals should be challenging the protagonist to become better, which makes me love N, Silver, Wally, and Blue above all other rivals. But what makes Blue number one for me is that he never fails to tell you that he's better than you, making you strive more to prove that cocky brat a thing or two.
The way Solo-Wing Pixy was in AC0 was beautiful, even tho he "betrayed" us and joined a world with no boundaries, he still acted as if he were our brother per say in the final dogfight over Avalon
Another great rival is probably Ryuzo from Ghost of Tsushima, his example works in reverse. Upon meeting the guy he starts expressing that he's pretty jealous of you and everything you've achieved and then later it is revealed that you and him were childhood friends that you had beat in a tournament long ago. So when he eventually becomes a villain, you are angry about this but also the see that the writing was on the wall.
I miss Bass/Forte. I want to fight him more in the classic series but out of the 11 classic series games we only fight him twice. Bass stands out cause he sees himself as the best and is often insulted that Wily moreso relies on armies of bots instead of just Bass.
I like the rival trope in video games because usually the level where you fight them is usually just a boss fight and I don’t have to fight any trash mobs and I like that.
I’m known to develop a rivalry with other and can confirm these. I’m more of the opposite and mirror counterpart, being whatever they’re not. Getting better with every encounter or Even handicap my opponent bringing them down to my level. When I have my showdown it test of resolve and even skill but there one thing. Thing are better when I have history with the person and I get to be confident. Keep or break my moral the growth from the encounter. I’m basically if Lillie become Marnie turn Klara.
v2 from Ultrakill is a fun rival; not a word is said between the player and the other robot, yet the similarities in models and fighting strategies provide some extra relatability to the attitude it gives off. The robot behaves as an angry showoff, and in your second encounter, shows annoyance at its defeat. What I really love about it is that it *learns* from its defeat, and starts using more of the players arsenal in the next fight. Both bots are after the same goal of continuing to live off of the blood of enemies; basically they're after survival in the violent harshness of hell. They're a classic biOni like you've mentioned, literally being blue and red. A difference of your bot is noticeable with small secrets in the games levels, where your bot can read books and other lore options, and over the [the rest of the text is irrelevant], expresses some wonder for the environment; like from Claire De Lune playing in 1-4, the calming music of 5-1, appreciating views from secret soul-orb spots, or even the simple option to customize your perception of the environment to PSX graphics. I could only wonder if that could imply that v2 could also enjoy these little things. In summary, Buy Ultrakill
one Capcom rivalry that isn't talked about because the game is kinda obscure but it's so good is Gene vs Azel, from the clover studio's game "God Hand", challenging battles, opposites, lots of exposure on the story (even if its a simple straightforward type) and the thing he does after the last time you fight him its, kinda memorable
Praising sonic stories makes me pretty happy, not only because there my favourite games ever but I kind of feel like most non sonic fans overlook these. Thankfully people talk about this which might let people realise this
here's a good rivalry: Zero and X Zero's red, and has a serious and seemingly cold personality, Doesn't tend to openly show his emotions, and is usually focused on the mission, he's also really powerful. X is blue, he's pacifistic at heart, but won't hesitate to fight for the peace he longs for, and tries to reason with his foes before deciding to fight them. and then they have their final rival battle in MMX5. Also the character development of both characters is amazing (anything after mmx6 is not canon, literally, oh and i have my own canon to cut out mmx6 as well), and thats why i love the mega man zero series.
I'm surprised you didn't dig into how the rival trope has been used in fighting games. Ryu and Ken, the Street Fighters, Ragna the Bloodedge and Jin Kisaragi of BlazBlue, Sol Badguy and Ky Kiske from Guilty Gear, the generational 3-way rivalry of Heihachi and Kazuya Mishima with Jin Kazama, the Kings of the Iron Fist. That's just games too, think about how many other products include an indulgence in the trope, Son Goku and Prince Vegeta, Spike Spiegle and Vicious of the Red Dragons, Amuro Ray and Char Aznable, all being excellent examples of that "Red Oni, Blue Oni" trope in media.
I low key wished you would’ve talked about Sephiroth and Cloud too, I personally think that Sephiroth is way more of the main antagonist than a rival, but also serves as a good rival for cloud too.
A rival that always comes to mind when I think of this dynamic is Asch from Tales of the Abyss. He looks similar to you, fights in the same style, but somehow is much stronger and communicates with you through telepathy at various key moments. There are a few battles with him scattered throughout, sometimes as a team, sometimes as you alone, but the character is really interesting and has relationships not just with the villain group but with some of your hero friends as well.
Gorou Akechi is especially a great rival for Joker in Persona 5 Royal, as there, we actually see their blooming friendship/rivalry play out as it was meant to happen in the original Persona 5, with showing that Joker values their bond just as much as Akechi does, and we see more of Gorou's past. Though in either game, his development is somewhat stifled by the English version of his final cutscene; before the Third Semester in Royal; making him say the line, "So, my final opponent is a puppet version of myself." In Japanese, it's much better, as he says, "My final opponent is the puppet I used to be, huh..." revealing fully that he is done being a puppet. He also seems to place the emphasis in his final wish to Joker in either game with, "End Shido's crimes in my stead," in Japanese rather than the possibly more self-serving, "Change his heart in my stead," that we get in English.
I would consider Lost judgements Jin Kuwana to be a great Rival because his character is kind of like yagamis (they even have similar moveset).He is somebody you understand but his way of delivering Justice is something that is left for up for you to Judge making for interesting conflict between yagamis way of Justice in contrast to Kuwanas way of Justice
One idea I came up with while doing some creative writing was for there to be two rivals. One would be more physical in his approach while the other is more psychological warfare. Both want to shatter the protagonist's self-esteem but their methods and reasons for it are different. Protagonist would have to face both and overcome them by showing he will not be beaten down (literally and figuratively).
Rival design 101: Take the absolute key elements of your character, invert everything else, keeping the key elements the same, keeping in mind what those reversions due to the actual character add backstory and personality reflecting and involving those. Then simply put them in the way of the original character, maybe even letting them fuck with each other on occasion outside of Just raw combat.
Good rivals are so fun to watch, seeing each character surpass and fall behind their rival over the course of the story or seeing one grow to equal the other is so cool. Not sure if she counts as a rival but I like Hornet from Hollow Knight. She's one of the few sane enemies who matches The Knight in size and maneuverability and each encounter with her (be it dialogue or a battle) shows how she's beyond you in most aspects. She watches and leads The Knight, seeing if they're able to complete the impossible mission it was born for, always one step ahead. Even after her first fight it doesn't feel like you've won, she just brushes her self off and leaves. Just another test. When you meet her in the City of Tears she tells you to meet her in the Cast Off Shell after researching Hallownest's sacrifice, goading you to use the now open world to find everything you need to beat her and prove your worth. As you progress through the best route and figure out more about the world, you feel yourself getting closer to her (both in skill from all the areas you've conquered and knowledge from all the lore you've discovered). Then you finally get to the Cast Off Shell she told you about so long ago and she finally faces you with her full strength. Defeating her here feels like you've earned the skill and knowledge to finally defeat the Hollow Knight. And in the best route she even assists you in getting to the True Final Boss, showing how you've gained her belief and respect.
A personal favourite of mine was always Liquid and Solid Snake, especially with its culmination at the end of MGS4 as 2 old men. “The war is over, but, we still have a score to settle.” “Show me what you’ve got Snake!”
I honestly half-expected you to mention Ace Combat series, or even Project Wingman. In the series, you, as an ace, will always have your counterpart, an enemy ace whose story and achievements are even more lauded than you. There will always be a battle between you and them at some point in the story, which can be the end of the game (Zero for example) or just a push for you before the end (7 and 4). Well, anyway, nice video!
This is so helpful! I'm trying to write my first fantasy novel, and I want to give my main character (and maybe other characters later on) a rival and had no clue how to start. So thank you so much MangaKamen!
Beastars as a series is rife with all sorts of rival pairings, and the pairings really help flesh out characters! I think my personal favorite one from it has to be the first one we see, between Legoshi and Louis. They're equally innocuous at first glance, seeming quite typical of their carnivore/herbivore roots, but you see how much they're displaced in their community as the comparisons start to be drawn, and you see how they develop and grow much richer in their personalities. It's something that continues throughout the entire run, and I enjoyed it at every turn
Which yeah makes a lot of sense. They both harbor a dark secret and a desire to be more than they are. Legoshi with his desire to use his power as a carnivore for the safety of others. Louis with his desire to be stronger by any means, regardless of his upbringing and the fact of him being an herbivore. They're both striving to break the barrier that holds them, which is why they butt heads a lot. But also why they respect each other quite a lot.
I know that he probably isn't a rival, but one of my favorite characters I always considered a rival is Siegmeyer of Catarina from Dark Souls. He never challenges the player directly, but the story progression related to him always does have a small (or kinda crazy) challenge for the player. In Sens Fortress, helping him is a very basic puzzle. In Anor Londo, its a combat challenge. In Blight Town, its a lesson on preparedness and always bringing enough consumables (Even if it is a little late in the game), and in the Demon Ruins its a bit of a culmination of everything, the puzzle is putting the plan together. It helps that Siegmeyer is always wherever he's going before you get there, and Siegemeyere is a pretty good character.
I actually have two super rivals for a comic I’m working on. One’s an assassin who’s been killing metahumans since before the Big Bad Evil Guy gave every character his cosmic blood (his gimmick is he ends both fights on his own terms) and the BBEG who literally tanks the MC’s win/loss ratio as his introduction
I agree completely on a good rival, I do want to point out about Pokémon rivals that choose a starter weak to your starter having happened much earlier than in sun and moon at least from what I can remember.
It did. The first time a rival takes a starter weak to yours is with Bianca in Black & White (though there's also Cheren who takes the one with the type advantage, and is treated as a more serious threat to you than Bianca). There's also Shauna is Pokémon X&Y, who is barely even a rival since she's just a part of a friend group who travel together in Kalos
I come here right back again to Thank Mangakamen. Thank you so much for introducing me to Metal Gear Rising Revengeance. It was So fun to play especially when I learned how to Parry. I've heard so much about Metal Gear Rising but I never really had the Money. And I didn't think my Parents would be convinced to buy me a Game that has a LOT of Gore. So I continued to just be Spoiled for the Game. But I didn't hear too much about it. So my Experience wouldn't be Unique. But there would be things I wouldn't know. Like how Parrying is the Best way to Beat the Game. And that if I don't learn parrying at the Beginning of the Game I'm Fucked. So after learning that the Game got so much more Fun and Satisfying! Then came the Moment I so dear Love. The fight against Sam. The first time I fought him. I was Dumb. Forgot how to Parry. Forgot it even existed. But this time. This time I was ready to Let Jack Let er Rip! It was Fun! It took me so Long to fight him. At the same time it didn't take forever as I thought it would. But the Moments when I parryed. They made it so satisfying when I hit him right back. But after beating him. I knew that I needed to fight him again on another time after Beating the Game and get the S on fighting him. But then I realized the Second I got to Armstrong with the 5 Healthpastes and 200% health. I realized. I was Dead. Ok so the 200% health was a lie. For fighting him at his Beginning. But then when I got to his ACTUAL Fight. I had 200% Health. But that 5 Healthpastes went down 2. So I was left with 3 Healthpastes. It hurt me when i fought him. And I was getting SO FAR EACH GODDAMN TIME! I LOVED IT! Wait. I'm mixing my Old Save with my new Save. So the old Save I didn't have 200% health. But that 5 Healthpastes thing. That whole ordeal. Was real. But with the new Save I learned my lesson and tried to get away from him. Unfortuanally 1 Healthpaste didn't make it to the ACTUAL Fight. But it made things easier. Only a TINY Bit. The rest I needed UA-cam to tell me what to do. But all it told me to do was Grow balls and actually Parry at the Right times and watch Armstrong's Movements. I was Fucked. I knew it. So after waiting after Long hours I played jetstream's mission again and after SO Long of listening to "The Only Thing I Know For Real" I finally got the S Rank. And I Cheered! Then I went about to the Next Mission and with my newfound Confidence I was destroying everything in my Path. Then I fought the Metal Gear and Lost so Much Health and Lost the 1 Healthpaste. But it was all worth it when i hear the Music while I used the Metal Gear's own blade against it. So Fun. But then I got to Armstrong. And I was being Destroyed. After Hours upon Hours just Beating him up I finally got to his 100% Health and I thought I was Fucked. I was Never going to Beat him. But then I continued and eventually. I ripped out his Heart and forced him to Watch as I crushed it with my Hand. That. Felt SO Satisfying. All I had left was 0 healthpastes and health that was Starting to Dwindle. But it felt so good. And now. I've beaten Metal Gear Rising. I don't know what to do with my life now. But I could say the Same thing as I had Beaten the Halo Series, Elden Ring, Call of Duty 4 Modern Warefare, and Call of Duty Ghosts. I beat them all on hard and it Felt good with the Challenge. It felt amazing
Katanas are actually easier to cut with than double edged, European style blades, because they're more optimized for it, what with their thick spines and curved, single edged blades. Double edged swords tend to be thinner and flex and wobble a lot during cutting, but are a little more versatile and better at thrusting (something we see Dante do a lot of).
I love Dante and Vergil and I personally think that while Vergil's presentation in DMC3 was better and more impactful. I still find it amazing that they've managed to make him the climax of DMC5, where he absolutely steals the show at the very end with just a rather small amount of screen time and then kicks your butt.
@@salsamancer I get that, but Urizen only represents Vergil's power and lust for power. Urizen doesn't really grow and his only real motivation is defeating Dante, which he fails to do because he shed his humanity. Overall the only time Urizen acts as kind of a Rival is when he beats you in the prolog and after that Dante wipes the floor with him twice anf even lectures him about humanity. V represents his human side, his emotions and his fragileness. But I think V's arc of accepting his humanity isn't really well portrayed in the game compared to the manga (Visions of V). The only time Vergil is a Rival again is when he becomes whole again and immediatly establishes himself as a threat strong enough to easily beat Dante who is exhausted from his fight with Urizen. I get that in a nutshell this game is about Vergil hiring Vergil's brother and Vergil's son to defeat Vergil. But I am rather talking about the fact that someone, who has only played DMC5 so far and who might not even understand Vergil's arc, can still recognize Vergil as a legitimate threat and Rival during his actual screentime at the end. SO ENOUGH OF ME NERDING AROUND I NEED TO FINISH THIS COMMENT AT ONE POINT
@@platinumvind Still, the fights between Nero and Urizen/Vergil kinda follow the same pattern as Dante and Vergil in DMC3. In the prologue, Nero gets his ass kicked against Urizen. In Mission 8, he manages to actually fight him (despite him having absorbed a lot of blood since their last meeting), but still goes down when Urizen gets serious and needs to be bailed out by Dante. However, in Mission 20, Nero clashes against the restored Vergil... And actually wins.
In my opinion, Dr. Ivo eggman robotnik will always be sonics greatest rival. I think the ways they both fight perfectly contrasts with each other, what sonic represents (freedom and nature,) and what eggman represents (control and what evils technology does to nature.)
One of my favourite uses of the rival trope has to be in Sekiro. It's both great from a story and gameplay point of view. I also love the fact that unlike with Sam, the game lets you beat Genichiro at the start while still keeping the rivalry intact. On a first playthrough his introduction serves much the same purpose as Sam's, showing him as our superior so the player is motivated to improve in order to beat him. But on subsequent playthroughs, beating him gives you a bit more of his personality, that he's ready to do anything to achieve victory - an important character trait that'll serve very well as a showcase for thei rivalry. And afterwards every encounter is a show of progress for the player/Sekiro, and regress for Genichiro. By the final boss that dynamic between them has climaxed, showcased perfectly by rendering him more of a speedbump to the actual final boss, than a boss himself. And said actual final boss is only there because Genichiro's use of any means necessary has also climaxed with him literaly opening a gate to the underworld to beat you. This guy goes from going "hey look" to distract you, to necromacy. It's a lovely dynamic
6:25 You know, one way to demonstrate how the rival is strong is showing he can beat you without effort or with a handicap. Imagine using a fire type pokemon and lose to a grass type one from your rival. That would show a lot of skill from their part.
For the hop from sword and shield defense i belive hop didnt picked a starter to be effective against you but he did to be effective against Leon who picked 3rd starter
That actually makes a lot of sense, since at the beginning of the game Hop talks big about how he's gonna be the next champion and beat his brother (at least until he got utterly wasted by Bede), so it makes sense he would want to choose the Pokémon that is good against Leon's starter
Dante and Vergil. What can I say, it's one of the best Rivalries and something I love about it is the family interpretation. See, after the loss of their mother Vergil has become power obsessed... but as I was playing Devil May Cry 4 again because it's my second favorite DMC, I noticed something. When Nero gets Yamato, Vergil's Sword, he speaks about having an obsession for power, needing more, and because he lost "her". The monologue to confused screaming can be taking as Nero losing his girlfriend and a fear of that, but in context, it makes more sense if Yamato is speaking through Nero, speaking with Vergil's desires. Realizing that I just get another appreciation for Vergil's character. Why did I say that? Because with this, I think it's Vergil's misguided obsession with power was created with a desire to protect his mother, making his dark ambitions to prove himself right, it doesn't matter if he puts others through his own pain, just as long as he can prove that all he needed was more power. However, he's a Son of Sparda, a Demon who sacrificed himself to battle and conquest out of his love, a Demon known as the Legendary Dark Knight by Humans. To Demons he's a traitor, a traitor that has wrecked havoc against his own kind. It is Sparda's humanity that allowed him to go beyond the power of a regular Demon. Dante Denied his Devil Heritage, however, Dante is more like Sparda than Vergil, and I think that's neat. Nero is kinda like Dante, except I'd like to say the Grandson of Sparda is even more like Sparda. Nero is fighting for his girlfriend and wife, of which I can't spell the name, a romantic calling to Sparda's full reason to fight, Love, not just in humanity, but of someone in his life. It's what allows Nero to realize his power as a Demon to stop his Father and Uncle from killing each other (even though I have story problems with the disconnected story of 5, power and story progression, combat of V, 5 is my 4th favorite DMC) TL;DR Wow these characters have some neat interpretive shit going on
Install Raid for Free IOS/ANDROID/PC: clcr.me/fNYIaA and get a special starter pack Available only for the next 30 days
while i don't play raid cause i simply don't have time i am happy that you get a pretty good living out of this
You have committed crimes against skyrim and her people what say you in your defence
Ooh yay thanks you!
I would like to know where you got the bit with Raiden and Sam dancing on the stage to that music
@@graveslayer9666 Search up their name with Yakuza 0.
Honestly, I really like the rival trope, especially whenever the two characters actually have a deep respect for each other. Like, Vergil and Dante respect each other, but always end up battling each other and laugh it off as just "How they've been since they were kids" or how Sonic and Knuckles compete but in a more friendlier manner and turn things into a silly competition.
I also like it when they have similar powers.
raiden and sam as well, raiden doesn't cut sam into pieces like he does with other bosses
edit: raiden also sheathes sam's blade and gives it to wolf to keep 'in memory of sam' after he's killed
This is a reason why people ship rival characters
Kirby and meta kinght they keep trying to kill each other but we know their bffs
Or doof and perry
To me, I think rivalry is about the motivation of the characters and not just for the sake of being bad. And it could take on different forms besides the villains or jerk tropes. Depending on the story, it can bring the characters more in depth and flesh them out more
"Rivalry is about the *motivation* of the characters"
Precisely why Vergil is simply the greatest and sexiest rival character of all time, seconded only by Jetstream Sam.
@@TheActualRealDrPepper
Oh, good. Why, that's very good. Yes, I like that... Now I'm a little motivated.
@@TheActualRealDrPepper Commitment is also big in things. Rivalries don't pan out if the characters aren't committed. Pokemon rivals, amirite? Vergil and Dante are super committed, I mean Vergil's life is essentially his rivalry by DMC5, so that's something else that matters.
@@TheActualRealDrPepper Facts no cap
M O T I V A T I O N
My favorite dynamic in media is the triangle between hero, villain and rival.
Usually the rival isn't the big villain of the story, but will work either along side the villain or against them, but also against the hero. It always culminates satisfyingly.
Meta knight😎
Shovel Knight's Black Knight😎
Like star wolf
Naruto and Sasuke
@@andimari9194 except Meta Knight is through and through a good guy.
I love how Vergil , while not the progenitor of rival characters, was done so well that having a character that mirrors the protagonist became a staple of character action games
Hell, even Platinum games , a studio largely made up of the people who made the first DMC, took notes from this and have included a rival character with this philosophy in mind, for almost every major game they've made since
Jeanne and Jetstream Sam are just the most popular examples
In Nier Automata too. 2bs rival is God
@@DiceOL As someone who's never player Nier Automata, this sentence sounds insane
@@martinstephenortiz4628 Welcome to JRPGs, where we fight and kill God with the power of friendship.
@@martinstephenortiz4628 it's more metaphorical.
Would the Black or Blacker Baron count as a rival for Jack Cayman, then? I suppose Madworld and Anarchy Reigns aren't *major* games (although Madworld is their firstborn), but you got me curious.
NEVERMIND, i suppose in AR Leo is meant to be Jack's rival in a way.
I also want to take this opportunity to say that i think the character design in Anarchy Reigns is largely pretty awesome. Big Bull and Douglas Williamsburg for the win!
The fact that Vergil and Sam having the same Japanese VA (Hiroaki Hirata) makes it even better.
Sanjiiii
yeah their mid japanese va
@@lennyface8771 ?
Also Dante and Sephiroth, this has no bearing but I just wanted to mention this
@@therealchaosguy Indeed, thanks to the awesome Toshiyuki Morikawa.
One thing I wanna add about Dante and Vergil is how they fight when they have each other’s weapons. Vergil fights very similar to Dante when using the force edge, just not doing some things like the sword master skills. Dante, when using the Yamato in DMC 4, uses it like a side-arm in combat, but still knows how to use it like Vergil, showing that they both know how each other fights, likely from observing one another in battle
Its also intended from a narrative stand point as they are meant to be equals in powers and combat strength and abilities
Something that i always liked was that in DMC4, the Yamato moveset in the Darkslayer Style was a copy-paste of Vergil's combo in DMC3, with the exception of the Judgement Cut.
Vergil's JC is fast, precise and almost instant, while Dante's version is slow, more chaotic, really drives home the fact that, even if Dante can immitate Vergil's moves because he has seen them, he doesnt really know how to use them. Even the name changes from "Judgement Cut" to "Slash Dimension".
@@yrgmustard3635 i’d say that dante is still slightly superior just because is a master of multiple styles and weapons. Vergil is more of bruce lee kinda guy(practice one kick 10000 times rather than 10000kicks once)
@@SuperLari1234 ah no vergil has multiple weapons as well but prefers using the yamato
There's a lot more you can add to wanting Vergil to win. You almost want him to win, because he's processing through his grief in the worst way. Throughout the whole series, Vergil is obsessed with power. Obsessed with the power he didn't have to be able to protect his family. To protect his mother. He becomes so obsessed with it that he's even willing to kill his twin brother, Dante. Time passes on, and Dante has been able to move past his grief. Especially after he meets a young devil hunter with a mysterious arm, Nero. He sorta becomes a mentor figure for him, and it becomes stronger when you eventually learn that Nero is Vergil's son. Dante was finally able to find people he can be close to again. He finally had some semblance of a family. Vergil was alone. He had nobody, because he shut everyone away in his pursuit of ultimate power. In DMC 5, he's literally willing to split his humanity away if it meant he'd be unstoppable. However, Dante was able to connect to both sides of himself. He acknowledges that he's a human that's half demon, instead of demon who's half human. Dante had something Vergil never did, and that's what always allowed him to defeat him. It's not until the end of DMC 5 where he starts to question what his life could've been like. And it's only until he's finally able to connect to his brother and son that he's able to find something he never had. If we get another game, maybe they'll explore more with that. Who knows what they have in store for one of gaming's greatest rival's. I just hope that it's a jackpot.
OMG. You said jackpot.
What a GOOD comment!
I would like the next game to be dante and vergil fighting in the demon world while having usual sibling banter
In DMC4 Dante says something related to Agnus
Not even Capcom put that much thought in the plot
Vergi is not just a rival, he's an indirect teacher of the game too. He punishes and humiliates button mashers and rewards those who takes the time to learn Dante.
just like any boss should be, also in vergil's case don't forget that in dmc 3 he teaches you his fighting style as you progress the game, somewhat inspiring you to learn his tricks, attacking after the enemy missing, attacking from above, dodging and then punishing
Personally, my favorite Rival in gaming is Dark Pit from Kid Icarus Uprising. For one, he's the physical manifestation of Pit's inner demons. Not only is he stark black compared to Pit's white, but he's also Pit's complete opposite personality-wise. While Pit is heroic, kind, and fiercely loyal to his goddess, Dark Pit is destructive, mean, and disloyal to literally everyone. He refuses to serve anyone and values his freedom too much. In fact, that's the biggest thing about Dark Pit. After stealing Pandora's powers, he gains infinite flight which is something Pit yearns for but can never achieve. Dark Pit can choose whether or not he wants to help someone while Pit has to serve his goddess' every command, almost simp-like even. When you get down to it, one is free, and the other isn't and likely never will be.
I also love the implication that he isn't an "evil copy" or "opposite copy" but a "mirror image" of the "nature" of Pit's soul, freed from the "nurture" of his past.
Pittoo is one of my favorite rival characters despite quite literally being a "clone." Despite him coming off as your typical edgelord rival, he has a shocking amount of depth to him and isn't really that bad of guy. He just looks after himself more than anything.
Eh, Pittoo is okay, I guess. Now a great rival is Chaud from Battle Network.
I've heard a case made that Dark Pit's personality is somewhat an inversion of normal Pit's. Pit's top priority is following Palutena, Dark Pit's is doing what he wants to inside. About medium on their priority list is a shared goal: beating the underworld army into a fine paste. Towards the bottom of Pit's priority, and the top of Dark Pit's, is protecting his image, both to the external and internal direction. To Dark Pit, that means acting the part of the cool disaffected loner archetype, hiding any flaws he has behind that act. He does care, at least a little, but he will let *no one* catch on, since that'd ruin his cool guy persona.
But the best thing about Dark Pit, is that his theme fucking SLAPS.
Using your sonic example, I personally love the "win through any means" type of rivals.
The example being Metal Sonic. The character simply wanting to prove superiority makes things simple enough where ya can take em really any direction.
Metal's been the big bad, the lackey, and in the comics even a reformed good guy.
They can have codes, be absolute bastards, help or only hinder the hero's simply cause they wanna win or at least have the chance later to win. To me at least this makes a good rival
Canonically, he was never reformed, and that's the way we sonic fans like it. He is better off never having a redemption just like him never talking, he may get character development but we like him as a cold and angry machine.
@@mr_indie_fan
To each their own.
I like both Metal as-is
And when he was shard in the comics
Wait Metal's a good guy in IDW comics
@@senabecool7232
Idw loves a switcheroo, they even turned megatron from transformers into a good guy.
The best rivalry trope: when they actively protect each other because they want to fight each other at their peak, or want the satisfaction of beating them themselves.
Ever consider of doing a video about good and bad ways of having enemies teaming up against a powerful foe?
Good:
"I team up with you cuz i want to be the top dog"
"I team up with you cuz i fd up"
"I team up with you cus I hsve standards"
"Im pretending to be weak to see who and what you are both mentally and physically"
Asuras wrath is one
Lego Marvel 1 final battle is a neat example imo
Halo 3, the flood team up Master Chief and Arbiter to stop Truth. Grant, Truth army was depleted and back against the wall, but it show that Flood is intelligent to think long term rather just adding two new corpses to stop the ring from firing.
is it bad that i immediately thought of vergil again during he dante's fight with arkham
I have to say, Majima is one of the greatest rivals, IMO. I love his insane attitude and how his one goal is to live crazy and make Kiryu stronger to have a better rival overall. It's pretty nice
Honestly I love how before Vergil, video games didn't have the giant push to put a rival into every action game they made. Sure I guess sonic adventure 2 and a few others had it, but it never became apparent until after DMC 3. Even games like metal gear rising and Asura's wrath had to have a rival
Fair, but metal gear always had liquid and solid.
Naked Snake had Ocelot in MGS3. Liquid and Solid were near perfect rivals. Raiden and Vamp since MGS2 and MGS4 were perfect Rivals before Sam.
Asura and Yasha were handled pretty well tbh
there were rivals in games long before vergil, megaman had blues/rockman, street fighter had ken, megaman x had 2 with vile and zero.
the list grows alot if you include rpgs, the tales series for example is filled with big rivals like leon or ras(ToD1 and 2). Sephiroth is probably even bigger as an example of rivalry, and i wouldnt doubt vergil in DMC3 was either based or had alot of influence from him.
@@marcosdheleno perhaps, but Vergil was done the best. Hell he only shows up in the games for a few minutes yet you feel the struggle between him and Dante through gameplay. He's the best rival in video games. Others are close, but none surpass Vergil when it comes to narrative through gameplay
Something that really elevates Vergil is how in every game he's in (even when he was Nelo Angelo or Urizen) he is given three dedicated boss fights, where the first time you fight him he wins, the second time even after getting a little stronger is defeated because Dante has grown at a faster rate, and by the third fight he's also stepped up his game and is stronger than ever. It really drives home that not only does the rival push the hero to become stronger, but the hero also pushes the rival. If the rival is always losing they don't feel as much like a rival but just a recurring enemy, and if they're always winning they feel more like they're just a monolith that is always being chased instead of someone who is also growing alongside the MC.
For longer running series where rule of 3 can't really hold on it's more about letting the rival and hero trade wins and losses and ensure that they get upgrades in pairs instead of all the new fancy stuff being given to the hero.
This is especially true in 3, story wise specifically, the first fight he doesn't use devil trigger(which a player may or may not expect him to have) and wins, implying how he's so strong that he was basically holding back and still beat dante, the second he finally starts to use his full power and they are basiclly tied but are interrupted and in the third dante wins but they are still pretty close in power levels...
Agreed. Rivals don’t work if you just always stomp them. The trilogy fight in dmc3 is perfect with how it shows the brothers have grown throughout that story. Raiden getting whooped in his first fight with Sam really drives his thirst for revenge in the entire game
He also gets three fights against Nero as well. Once in the first mission, their rematch in mission 9, then their proper duel on the Qliphoth
When you think about it, Sonic’s got a number of rivals, each with their own goals and reasons to be Sonic’s foils
You already talked about Knuckles
You have Shadow, a brooding edge lord variant of the speedy blue hedgehog, with the same power and abilities plus his own. Including tapping into the chaos energies, something only Sonic could do in his super form. Unlike Sonic, Shadow uses his power to destroy the world, before he had a quick change of heart
Then there’s Jet the Hawk. Cocky, arrogant, carefree and speedy like Sonic, but unlike Sonic being selfless and somewhat altruist, Jet’s a greedy @$$hole who takes whatever he wants, regardless if who gets hurt
Then there’s Metal, Sonic’s evil robot doppelgänger. This one’s a bit of a twist. Instead of the protagonist trying to be better than the rival, it’s the other way around. Metal is obsessed with being better than Sonic. Heroes being a prime example. Each fight in the game, Metal is secretly hiding in the shadows,analyzing Sonic and his friends. All to evolve into his perfect form
Edit: HOLY [Cungadero] I was not expecting that many likes
Edit 2: 500+ Likes? WHERE ARE YOU PEOPLE COMING FROM?!
There's also Blaze in the rival department arguably. Who is a sort of Parallel Sonic of sorts, both being fast and nimble. While Sonic is free and open to others, Blaze is more reserved and calm.
Don't forget about Mario, who was a major rival of his in the console wars.
You forgot Big the Cat. The greatest adversary in the history of fiction.
Honestly in terms of Sonic Rivals, Jet felt the most like an actual rival to Sonic. Some like Metal come off as just another obstacle (More due to the poor handling of him later on) or just stop having that kind of rivalry like Knuckles after Adventures. Meanwhile Jet being cocky as Sonic, can actually outspeed Sonic in his own way, and is more of a thief and treasure hunter in comparison to the heroics of Sonic. And sure Jet is an asshole, but there is a comradery between the Babylon Rogues that I like. Wave and Storm bounce off Jet really well as support for him and his goals. And the Babylon Rogues all felt like rivals to their respective characters as well.
@@jacobfoxfires9647 I can totally see Wave as a rival to Tails. The two are equally talented in engineering, and there personalities clash. With Tails as the plucky tike happy to help others, while Wave is egotistical, often acting like the big sister to the Rogues. Even she was impressed by Tails’ hoverboard though never admitted it. So impressed that she was jealous and sabotage it.
Storm however I don’t really see as a rival to Knuckles. Not much going between them outside of being meatheads
You know I finally noticed that jet stream Sam made Jack armless just like him. I just finally noticed that hahahahah.😹
I just came here to listen praises be told about Vergil and Jetstream Sam, man technically they have little screen time but their impact in the industry and storytelling wise is transcendental.
i just wish we had another boss fight with sam before the last
"You just find him hot"
You described every white-haired villain especially if from Japanese entertainment
Sam is a dark haired brazilian, and it's even hotter than Vergil (and has more cake too).
Sephiroth.
[sweats in Hwoarang from Tekken]
Rivals make everything better. Kirby vs meta knight. Raiden vs Sam. Dante vs Vergil. They’re all just chefs kiss and extremely iconic
Personally, for me at least: I would love for a rival to have interactions with characters outside of the player. So it can fully showcase just how special the dynamic between them is. Probably why I loved Hop from Sword/Shield.
Also I don't care if they are a jerk or a kindhearted person: as long as I feel they have some semblance of effect on the other characters and/or story, that helps.
Frankly I'd even be okay if it showed the two rivals were evenly matched for a good chunk of the story; not always one being better than the other for the whole time.
Something interesting about Hop is that he begins as a rival, but ends as no longer one yet is still a foil.
The protagonist and him have the entire recipe to be rivals.
- Same goal (want to be champion). Check
- Known each other since childhood. Check
- Close relationship. Check
Yet his story subverts the typical rival trope by making him feel hopeless in reaching you and his brother's level and beating you over time.
Rivals are meant to motivate each other towards their owns goals. To go even further beyond!
But this one boy just didn't have the drive he thought he had..
His foil works in fact as you get stronger, he seemingly...never does.
Even tho he didn't have _that_ much depth to him(since he is a pokemon character), his character arc is something I've never seen anywhere else. Probably because, that character would no longer be a rival anymore.
@@soldierstride554 I guess I think Hugh is only good rival without being a asshole
My favourite part of the team-up with Vergil is that it's multiplayer. If you have another controller connected to your console, another person can use it to play as Vergil
Raziel and Kain from the Legacy of Kain series are a very worthy mention. The most mature rivalry I've ever read, one that was caused by greed and jealousy, but ultimately led to hate as well as pity, respect, admiration, and by the end of the final game, even redemption
I was about to refute your argument based on how the gameplay doesn't make it justice (even when I love these two to death) but then I remembered their final fight in Defiance.
Because damn. Controlling Kain first only to switch to Raziel in the second round was a genius move and I screamed at that moment. It truly showcase their rivalry in actual combat, which until then it was mostly a mental battle mixed with a persecution.
My favorite rival in more recent titles is V2. He shows up twice, never says a word, and yet, has so much personality and memorability that it’s impossible not to hate/love the thing.
I feel like you remember V2 too fondly. Sure, his first battle is nothing short of fantastic and memorable. It doesn't have climatic buildup, but instead surprises you with V2's moveset that closely mirrors how most players play the game. It takes player off guard, it is brutal and unforgiving. I had to use assist mode to beat him.
But second encounter with V2? He is a joke and isn't much better than in first battle. For some reason, he was much easier for me to defeat in second battle rather than first one. I didn't use assist mode and it took me under 10 attempts.
Besides, I think V2 was done dirty. I think he would have worked much better if he was a recurring boss who'd begin weak but get stronger, better and use more weapons as the player massacres through layers. Starting off weak and mirroring a typical beginner player with poor movement and non-existent weapon combo skills, and culminating in an insane dance of quick-drawing, coin flip chaining and shotgun blast parries.
@@crapposter8201 lmao all you do is either spam projectile boost or yknow
up up down down left right left right B A
@@crapposter8201 That's just you dude, V2 2nd fight destroyed me many many times, and surprises the player by pulling advanced techs that players would use (coin chaining).
v2 sliding down the pyramid and seeing him shoot my own coins made the second fight for me. love him
@@xyvernthederg5760 yeah that was the coolest part of the game. it honestly felt like a movie
9:59 “conflicting personalities” proceeds to show Ethel and Cammuravi, two commanders from different nations (Keves and Agnus) with arguably similar personalities, serious yet kind.
They were in the game for a short amount of time, but man those 2 made a big impact, also i love how the fandom really wants them to fuck XD, i dunno is just works for some reason.
I would like to add another rival: The Edge from Furi.
Even if he only shows up for 5 minutes (or an hour if he beats the shit out of you), this guy is one of the most charismatic videogame characters I ever met, despite the lack of lore. He trained day and night just to fight you and all he wants is to have the most memorable fight of his life. And he has a lot in common with Vergil and Sam:
- He's cool af.
- His soundtrack is a banger (A Big Day/Something Memorable, by Kn1ght).
- He uses a katana (and a f*cking wooden oar)
- It requires skill to defeat him.
If only he would be a playable character...
Plus, he has one of the best quotes: "Excellence is not an art, is pure habit. We are what we repeatedly do".
Nice.
Bro i loved the edge boss, every time i fight him i play jetstream sams battle theme cuz he reminds me of him so much, but furi is just a good game in general
I love that you mentioned Furi. A seriously underrated masterpiece. Visuals, gameplay, music, the whole package. Thank you for bringing it up.
vergil and jetstream sam are some of my favourite charcaters in any games, period. the rival trope is awesome, especially when both sides care about eachother deep down.
V1 and V2 in ultrakill are great, and they don’t exchange a single word other than “You aren’t getting away this time” outside of that line, all of the story dynamics between them are shared by actions, gameplay, and who he is to your character
thats more of a doppelgänger fight honestly, i feel like gabriel fits better as a rival
@@ultraferal6138 Gabriel works, but I still see V2 as the better fight because he is literally you but stronger, forcing yourself to be the better machine and overcome him
I think Goku and Vegeta are effective rivals because they both have a desire of being stronger and a knack for fighting.
I loved the bayonetta/jeanne rivalry, you have the typical protagonist with a missing memory that is looking for the truth, and an old friend who has to kill her, because if she gets her memory back, the entire world ends. And then they had to screw it up at the ending (she was mind controlled all along) *sigh*
FINALLY. The Raid Sponsorship I never knew I needed to see. Congratulations! You earned it.
I like the Rival trope I am also a sucker for when the rival has similar powers to the main character.
Basing myself out of what I've seen from rivals in videogames up to now, here is what I think a rival should look like :
They should be more powerful than you. Throughout the entire game. Even at the end. They are a test, to show that you've truly surpassed them and yoursleves.
Making them feel powerful would obviously be through elements such as making a very hard boss, a boss you can't beat, or just make them cool.
They also need to reflect the protagonist, but with differences. It makes them feel like they are just as you, and that way it is reflected better that you beat them out of skill. Ofc, the difference only goes so far, they need to be different characters (another reason would be what I wrote above).
Obviously, they need to be challenging moraly. The protagonist's whole reason to fight is his ideals, and thus them being questioned, means that your whole reason to fight against the rival is questioned.
But what I think is the most overlooked part of a good rival, is that you feel bad for them. As you mentioned in the video, you felt bad for Vergil losing in DMC3, even though that means saving humanity. I may add to that I felt terrible for Sam's death. His death is made so tragic by the fact that he too used to be a protector of justice, but he just lost his way in believing that he couldn't fight against large PMCs such as World Marshal of Desperado. This part of what makes him challenge Raiden's ideals in the first place. Raiden believes that he can stop Marshal/Desperado's plan, while Armstrong is the embodiment of failure in doing so. That ties up really nicely with his death, because Raiden beating Sam means that there IS a chance for PMCs to be challenged. In fact, Raiden manages to shake Sam's beliefs. BUT, in order for Sam to be proven wrong, Raiden MUST kill him. This is why Sam's death is tragic. Raiden was so close to proving to him that there is hope, and to make him go back to the right side, yet he was unable to do so, and never would have been.
4:16 Thank you for your own definition
That intro with Raiden and Sam in disco club like Kiryu and Majima, I wish there's a spinoff game where they just chill together xD
I just really love the rival trope in video games. It continues to get better when we have Platinum and the team behind Devil May Cry, in addition to other games regardless of genre. Admired the rivalry between Dante and Vergil, Raiden and Sam, Bayo and Jeanne, Travis and Henry, Kiryu and Majima, Sonic and Knuckles/Shadow/Silver, Sora and Riku/Roxas/Yozora, Red/Ash and Blue/Gary(including everyone else in the franchise), Rex and Jin/Malos, Morrigan and Lilith(among others), Ryu and Ken(and so on), The Wicked Twisters and Darkbringers, even Squall and Seifer. Such a beautiful feat when it comes to challenging the player, watch them improve, and settle the matter. With the rivals having their sympathetic side also; something that video games will always recapture.
There is certainly many rivals even depicted in many different types of media. I think Ryuko and Satsuki from Kill La Kill being very similar to Dante and Vergil in those aspects. But I think video game rivals do stick out the most. Bayonetta and Jeanne being both Umbra witches with a type of history that Bayo forgets, Travis and Henry both being brothers and also having a samurai and knight theme respectfully along with other Eastern and Western influences, and I think my pick being Asura and Yasha.
Loved Asura’s wrath and the dynamic between Asura and Yasha was great to see. From them being students under 2 other demigods who are also rivals in their days, Yasha being calm and emotionless and Asura being angry and very emotional, and how they are related with Asura marrying Yasha’s sister and making them brother-in-laws. Even their fighting styles which has Asura being a major brute that pummels enemies vs the clean cuts Yasha can do with his hands. And their final battle, MAAAAAAAAN. Probably my favorite rivalry in all of gaming.
No way I felt like I surpassed Vergil in that third battle, I only just today beat him without items or orbs for the first time lol
vergils boss fights always felt like a duel you barely one everything you'd learned thought the game was jsut enough to conquer vergil
I feel you, even after beating DMC3 multiple times in DMD, Vergil is still kicking my ass often
Tbf, DMC3 DMD Vergil3 still scares me, even tho I've beaten it~
Vergil 1 and 2 were tough, but Vergil 3 had my adrenaline at 200%, clutching my controller so bad, and blinking once a minute... I was playing normal.
To be fair, this was after 1 hour of suffering beating Arkham and subsequently accidentally deleting 7 hours of progress at 2am (which I clutched back through in 1:30-ish, pain....)
"And in the case of Vergil.. you just find him hot."
I feel personally called out by this because I do, in fact, find that man hot.
Nice Quilfish cry @6:13
What I love about Capcom's handling of Vergil in DMC5 is that they boiled down his and Dante's rivalry to a simple coin toss: nature vs nurture. Dante and Vergil were always polar opposites that got along like oil and water, but the fact that we're playing Dante as the "hero" may have been an arbitrary twist of fate. When they were younger, Dante was actually the more antagonistic twin, always taking his brother's stuff and picking fights with him. If Eva hadn't died, or if Vergil had been the one she found first the day he did, Dante may have grown up to be a complete psychopath. He was certainly on his way there before meeting Lady in DMC3, as he didn't care about anyone or anything. But Dante sympathized with Lady and the loss of her family, and it reminded him of his mother's compassion. But if he believed, like Vergil did, that his mother chose to save his brother and left him to die, Dante could have gone completely mad like Joker, or Kefka.
Vergil is absolutely the most top tier picks in terms of video game rivals.
Even to this day I can't think of one who comes anywhere near as close as a challenge, and as someone where the player themselves are given a strong motivation to beat Vergil too.
Not to mention the deeper meaning behind why Vergil does what he does and how he got there, seeking power so that he can never feel as scared and helpless as he was on the day his family was attacked by demons just adds a delicous layer of sympathy for Vergil, and how hurt he must have been to have chosen this path for himself.
And yet despite all his efforts and sacrifice, Dante always wins in the end, one way or another he is set back and punished even more, until he finally starts to open up to Dante's way of doing things and seems to feel a genuine sense of peace by the end of DMC 5, the rivalry between he and his brother Dante is no longer that of hatred but is closer to just friendly competition and fun.
Vergil: "Where did you learn to count? We're even!"~
Rivals have to be my absolute favorite trope. It never gets old for me, honestly. Nothing beats a good rival character.
Yup. You hit the nail on the head.
You know you have a good rival when you can get your audience to kinda be rooting for them while also rooting for the main character.
I feel like the best rival antagonistic relationship is Borderlands 2 with Handsome Jack (who is the antagonist) I would call him a rival because you were the only vault hunter to survive the train trap so he ups the ante on everything. He constantly calls you to shit talk just to prove a point that he is better and the hero of the story. He sees you as a rival to his power and authority and therefore does everything to stop it. He poses a threat by killing Roland with like zero difficulty, bombing your only safe haven and having already won.
Jetstream Sam is a Giga chad, and so is Vergil!
Change my mind!
Zuko and azula. This is especially seen at the end in their final Agni Kai with both displaying the skills they have . Zuko who uses multiple stances and forms to block and attack while azula solely relied on her fire power. Etc
Has anyone realized how Common Blue-Red Colour-scheme for Rivals is? Even Raiden and Sam.
Raiden - sam
Sonic - knuckles
Dante - Vergil
Donte - vergin
V1 - V2
@@godricktheminecrafted3113 Scorpion - Sub-Zero
Glacius - Cinder
phoenix wright and miles edgeworth
sorry i had to please dont publicly execute me
@@irisblink this Commentsection shall be a Document of Red-blue Rivalrys. Thx for contributing
@@seretith3513 heat miser - snow miser
Republican - democrats
Howdy, I’m a writer and I love writing all kinds of rivalries, so I appreciate that you uploaded this video and thought I could add in. I like to use Rivals as both development for characters, as well as something to write aside from the main plot. I like to write Goro Majima style rivals who just pull up out of nowhere, scream “YOU’RE TO LATE I AM ALREADY FORKLIFT CERTIFIED!” Tussle with the hero, and vanish. I especially like having my rivals separate the heroes so there could be a race to deal with the rival character and catch up with the team to fight the bad guy. Okay that’s all I gotta say. ✌️peace.
The Kamen Rider fan has an opinion on Rival Characters? Who woulda thought?
To the narrator who gave credit to the first great Rival in the Metal Gear series: you're pretty good. Overall, a great analysis. I know that after everything that was said about him in it, the man in the mirror's nodding his head.
Personally (And I mainly just wanna talk about my favourite rival in Pokémon.) I think a fantastic example of a rival in Pokémon is Silver. I actually think aside from N, he is the best rival.
Something really sets him aside from other rivals in Pokémon. He's a jerk, but unlike blue, he's not a lighthearted bratty bully. He's malicious. He hates everyone including you, hiding his own insecurities by calling everyone else weak.
His insecurities and hatred never let him get close to anyone and you see this as the game goes on, you see him single handedly want to take down team rocket. All because of the betrayal he felt from his dad.
Every time I play, I love seeing his evolution with his Pokémon too. He views Pokémon as tools through most of the game, not giving them the proper care they deserve. And it takes him the entire adventure to realise he was wrong. Along the second half of the game he constantly questioned what he was doing wrong. Until victory road battle, where he finally acknowledges it. He broke down that defence. As he realised this, he began to care fore his Pokémon. His Golbat finally evolved, and if you talk to elm at the end of the game, he mentions Silver tried to give the stolen Pokémon back, only for Elm to let him keep it because the starter loved and cared about Silver. You and his Pokémon helped him recover slightly from the trauma of his past, letting him know it's okay to care for others, and to let them care for you.
And this rings true where in the "final rival battle" you don't battle him, you battle beside him. Still as rivals, but without the hatred.
I just, love seeing this, perhaps I missed out some bits or even over dramatised them, but I loved this dynamic a lot, as it felt a lot more dramatic than other rivals, and it's fairly hidden if you just don't pay attention, similar to N. It's what makes them great.
I'm with you on rivals should be challenging the protagonist to become better, which makes me love N, Silver, Wally, and Blue above all other rivals. But what makes Blue number one for me is that he never fails to tell you that he's better than you, making you strive more to prove that cocky brat a thing or two.
The rule of thumb is: When in doubt, make a Char clone
The way Solo-Wing Pixy was in AC0 was beautiful, even tho he "betrayed" us and joined a world with no boundaries, he still acted as if he were our brother per say in the final dogfight over Avalon
Another great rival is probably Ryuzo from Ghost of Tsushima, his example works in reverse. Upon meeting the guy he starts expressing that he's pretty jealous of you and everything you've achieved and then later it is revealed that you and him were childhood friends that you had beat in a tournament long ago. So when he eventually becomes a villain, you are angry about this but also the see that the writing was on the wall.
I miss Bass/Forte. I want to fight him more in the classic series but out of the 11 classic series games we only fight him twice. Bass stands out cause he sees himself as the best and is often insulted that Wily moreso relies on armies of bots instead of just Bass.
You forgot Zero's 2 rivals: Elpizo and Himself.
I like the rival trope in video games because usually the level where you fight them is usually just a boss fight and I don’t have to fight any trash mobs and I like that.
I’m known to develop a rivalry with other and can confirm these.
I’m more of the opposite and mirror counterpart, being whatever they’re not.
Getting better with every encounter or Even handicap my opponent bringing them down to my level.
When I have my showdown it test of resolve and even skill but there one thing.
Thing are better when I have history with the person and I get to be confident. Keep or break my moral the growth from the encounter.
I’m basically if Lillie become Marnie turn Klara.
I'm surprised that you trolled us with a JetStream Sam home edition
v2 from Ultrakill is a fun rival; not a word is said between the player and the other robot, yet the similarities in models and fighting strategies provide some extra relatability to the attitude it gives off. The robot behaves as an angry showoff, and in your second encounter, shows annoyance at its defeat. What I really love about it is that it *learns* from its defeat, and starts using more of the players arsenal in the next fight.
Both bots are after the same goal of continuing to live off of the blood of enemies; basically they're after survival in the violent harshness of hell. They're a classic biOni like you've mentioned, literally being blue and red.
A difference of your bot is noticeable with small secrets in the games levels, where your bot can read books and other lore options, and over the [the rest of the text is irrelevant], expresses some wonder for the environment; like from Claire De Lune playing in 1-4, the calming music of 5-1, appreciating views from secret soul-orb spots, or even the simple option to customize your perception of the environment to PSX graphics. I could only wonder if that could imply that v2 could also enjoy these little things.
In summary, Buy Ultrakill
one Capcom rivalry that isn't talked about because the game is kinda obscure but it's so good is
Gene vs Azel, from the clover studio's game "God Hand", challenging battles, opposites, lots of exposure on the story (even if its a simple straightforward type) and the thing he does after the last time you fight him its, kinda memorable
Vergil is just an unapologetic asshole and that's why I like him it's truly something to strive for that level of power
Praising sonic stories makes me pretty happy, not only because there my favourite games ever but I kind of feel like most non sonic fans overlook these. Thankfully people talk about this which might let people realise this
here's a good rivalry:
Zero and X
Zero's red, and has a serious and seemingly cold personality, Doesn't tend to openly show his emotions, and is usually focused on the mission, he's also really powerful.
X is blue, he's pacifistic at heart, but won't hesitate to fight for the peace he longs for, and tries to reason with his foes before deciding to fight them.
and then they have their final rival battle in MMX5.
Also the character development of both characters is amazing
(anything after mmx6 is not canon, literally, oh and i have my own canon to cut out mmx6 as well),
and thats why i love the mega man zero series.
I'm surprised you didn't dig into how the rival trope has been used in fighting games. Ryu and Ken, the Street Fighters, Ragna the Bloodedge and Jin Kisaragi of BlazBlue, Sol Badguy and Ky Kiske from Guilty Gear, the generational 3-way rivalry of Heihachi and Kazuya Mishima with Jin Kazama, the Kings of the Iron Fist. That's just games too, think about how many other products include an indulgence in the trope, Son Goku and Prince Vegeta, Spike Spiegle and Vicious of the Red Dragons, Amuro Ray and Char Aznable, all being excellent examples of that "Red Oni, Blue Oni" trope in media.
I low key wished you would’ve talked about Sephiroth and Cloud too, I personally think that Sephiroth is way more of the main antagonist than a rival, but also serves as a good rival for cloud too.
A rival that always comes to mind when I think of this dynamic is Asch from Tales of the Abyss. He looks similar to you, fights in the same style, but somehow is much stronger and communicates with you through telepathy at various key moments.
There are a few battles with him scattered throughout, sometimes as a team, sometimes as you alone, but the character is really interesting and has relationships not just with the villain group but with some of your hero friends as well.
Gorou Akechi is especially a great rival for Joker in Persona 5 Royal, as there, we actually see their blooming friendship/rivalry play out as it was meant to happen in the original Persona 5, with showing that Joker values their bond just as much as Akechi does, and we see more of Gorou's past.
Though in either game, his development is somewhat stifled by the English version of his final cutscene; before the Third Semester in Royal; making him say the line, "So, my final opponent is a puppet version of myself." In Japanese, it's much better, as he says, "My final opponent is the puppet I used to be, huh..." revealing fully that he is done being a puppet. He also seems to place the emphasis in his final wish to Joker in either game with, "End Shido's crimes in my stead," in Japanese rather than the possibly more self-serving, "Change his heart in my stead," that we get in English.
Every subtitle: the rivalry name
Vergil: heres my theme song
I would consider Lost judgements Jin Kuwana to be a great Rival because his character is kind of like yagamis (they even have similar moveset).He is somebody you understand but his way of delivering Justice is something that is left for up for you to Judge making for interesting conflict between yagamis way of Justice in contrast to Kuwanas way of Justice
One idea I came up with while doing some creative writing was for there to be two rivals. One would be more physical in his approach while the other is more psychological warfare. Both want to shatter the protagonist's self-esteem but their methods and reasons for it are different. Protagonist would have to face both and overcome them by showing he will not be beaten down (literally and figuratively).
Rival design 101: Take the absolute key elements of your character, invert everything else, keeping the key elements the same, keeping in mind what those reversions due to the actual character add backstory and personality reflecting and involving those. Then simply put them in the way of the original character, maybe even letting them fuck with each other on occasion outside of Just raw combat.
Good rivals are so fun to watch, seeing each character surpass and fall behind their rival over the course of the story or seeing one grow to equal the other is so cool.
Not sure if she counts as a rival but I like Hornet from Hollow Knight. She's one of the few sane enemies who matches The Knight in size and maneuverability and each encounter with her (be it dialogue or a battle) shows how she's beyond you in most aspects. She watches and leads The Knight, seeing if they're able to complete the impossible mission it was born for, always one step ahead. Even after her first fight it doesn't feel like you've won, she just brushes her self off and leaves. Just another test. When you meet her in the City of Tears she tells you to meet her in the Cast Off Shell after researching Hallownest's sacrifice, goading you to use the now open world to find everything you need to beat her and prove your worth.
As you progress through the best route and figure out more about the world, you feel yourself getting closer to her (both in skill from all the areas you've conquered and knowledge from all the lore you've discovered). Then you finally get to the Cast Off Shell she told you about so long ago and she finally faces you with her full strength. Defeating her here feels like you've earned the skill and knowledge to finally defeat the Hollow Knight. And in the best route she even assists you in getting to the True Final Boss, showing how you've gained her belief and respect.
Lmao I started to play DMC because of Vergil. I simp too hard for him-
A personal favourite of mine was always Liquid and Solid Snake, especially with its culmination at the end of MGS4 as 2 old men.
“The war is over, but, we still have a score to settle.”
“Show me what you’ve got Snake!”
I honestly half-expected you to mention Ace Combat series, or even Project Wingman. In the series, you, as an ace, will always have your counterpart, an enemy ace whose story and achievements are even more lauded than you. There will always be a battle between you and them at some point in the story, which can be the end of the game (Zero for example) or just a push for you before the end (7 and 4). Well, anyway, nice video!
rivalry between snake and ocelot is s tier above all
Despite being short lived, Ethel and cammuravis rivalry was golden
This is so helpful! I'm trying to write my first fantasy novel, and I want to give my main character (and maybe other characters later on) a rival and had no clue how to start. So thank you so much MangaKamen!
Beastars as a series is rife with all sorts of rival pairings, and the pairings really help flesh out characters! I think my personal favorite one from it has to be the first one we see, between Legoshi and Louis. They're equally innocuous at first glance, seeming quite typical of their carnivore/herbivore roots, but you see how much they're displaced in their community as the comparisons start to be drawn, and you see how they develop and grow much richer in their personalities. It's something that continues throughout the entire run, and I enjoyed it at every turn
Which yeah makes a lot of sense. They both harbor a dark secret and a desire to be more than they are. Legoshi with his desire to use his power as a carnivore for the safety of others. Louis with his desire to be stronger by any means, regardless of his upbringing and the fact of him being an herbivore. They're both striving to break the barrier that holds them, which is why they butt heads a lot. But also why they respect each other quite a lot.
I know that he probably isn't a rival, but one of my favorite characters I always considered a rival is Siegmeyer of Catarina from Dark Souls. He never challenges the player directly, but the story progression related to him always does have a small (or kinda crazy) challenge for the player. In Sens Fortress, helping him is a very basic puzzle. In Anor Londo, its a combat challenge. In Blight Town, its a lesson on preparedness and always bringing enough consumables (Even if it is a little late in the game), and in the Demon Ruins its a bit of a culmination of everything, the puzzle is putting the plan together. It helps that Siegmeyer is always wherever he's going before you get there, and Siegemeyere is a pretty good character.
1:05 That typo... :-P
And Rivals are not easy to produce, but if it is done right, you almost wonder how they would play instead... :-P
Listen he had to go fast ok?
I actually have two super rivals for a comic I’m working on. One’s an assassin who’s been killing metahumans since before the Big Bad Evil Guy gave every character his cosmic blood (his gimmick is he ends both fights on his own terms) and the BBEG who literally tanks the MC’s win/loss ratio as his introduction
I agree completely on a good rival, I do want to point out about Pokémon rivals that choose a starter weak to your starter having happened much earlier than in sun and moon at least from what I can remember.
It did. The first time a rival takes a starter weak to yours is with Bianca in Black & White (though there's also Cheren who takes the one with the type advantage, and is treated as a more serious threat to you than Bianca).
There's also Shauna is Pokémon X&Y, who is barely even a rival since she's just a part of a friend group who travel together in Kalos
Kel from Omori was inspired by Dante and no one can change my mind
Good idea for a video. How about one of these for a romantic rival?
I can't run from yakuza you start to like it and it haunts you forever
Video Idea: What Makes a Good Superboss
I come here right back again to Thank Mangakamen. Thank you so much for introducing me to Metal Gear Rising Revengeance. It was So fun to play especially when I learned how to Parry.
I've heard so much about Metal Gear Rising but I never really had the Money. And I didn't think my Parents would be convinced to buy me a Game that has a LOT of Gore. So I continued to just be Spoiled for the Game. But I didn't hear too much about it. So my Experience wouldn't be Unique. But there would be things I wouldn't know. Like how Parrying is the Best way to Beat the Game. And that if I don't learn parrying at the Beginning of the Game I'm Fucked.
So after learning that the Game got so much more Fun and Satisfying! Then came the Moment I so dear Love. The fight against Sam. The first time I fought him. I was Dumb. Forgot how to Parry. Forgot it even existed. But this time. This time I was ready to Let Jack Let er Rip! It was Fun! It took me so Long to fight him. At the same time it didn't take forever as I thought it would. But the Moments when I parryed. They made it so satisfying when I hit him right back.
But after beating him. I knew that I needed to fight him again on another time after Beating the Game and get the S on fighting him. But then I realized the Second I got to Armstrong with the 5 Healthpastes and 200% health. I realized. I was Dead. Ok so the 200% health was a lie. For fighting him at his Beginning. But then when I got to his ACTUAL Fight. I had 200% Health. But that 5 Healthpastes went down 2. So I was left with 3 Healthpastes. It hurt me when i fought him.
And I was getting SO FAR EACH GODDAMN TIME! I LOVED IT! Wait. I'm mixing my Old Save with my new Save. So the old Save I didn't have 200% health. But that 5 Healthpastes thing. That whole ordeal. Was real. But with the new Save I learned my lesson and tried to get away from him. Unfortuanally 1 Healthpaste didn't make it to the ACTUAL Fight. But it made things easier.
Only a TINY Bit. The rest I needed UA-cam to tell me what to do. But all it told me to do was Grow balls and actually Parry at the Right times and watch Armstrong's Movements. I was Fucked. I knew it. So after waiting after Long hours I played jetstream's mission again and after SO Long of listening to "The Only Thing I Know For Real" I finally got the S Rank. And I Cheered! Then I went about to the Next Mission and with my newfound Confidence I was destroying everything in my Path.
Then I fought the Metal Gear and Lost so Much Health and Lost the 1 Healthpaste. But it was all worth it when i hear the Music while I used the Metal Gear's own blade against it. So Fun. But then I got to Armstrong. And I was being Destroyed. After Hours upon Hours just Beating him up I finally got to his 100% Health and I thought I was Fucked. I was Never going to Beat him. But then I continued and eventually.
I ripped out his Heart and forced him to Watch as I crushed it with my Hand. That. Felt SO Satisfying. All I had left was 0 healthpastes and health that was Starting to Dwindle. But it felt so good. And now. I've beaten Metal Gear Rising. I don't know what to do with my life now. But I could say the Same thing as I had Beaten the Halo Series, Elden Ring, Call of Duty 4 Modern Warefare, and Call of Duty Ghosts. I beat them all on hard and it Felt good with the Challenge. It felt amazing
Manga could've used Cheren and N, but red/blue does a good job of a rival anyways.
Katanas are actually easier to cut with than double edged, European style blades, because they're more optimized for it, what with their thick spines and curved, single edged blades. Double edged swords tend to be thinner and flex and wobble a lot during cutting, but are a little more versatile and better at thrusting (something we see Dante do a lot of).
I love Dante and Vergil and I personally think that while Vergil's presentation in DMC3 was better and more impactful. I still find it amazing that they've managed to make him the climax of DMC5, where he absolutely steals the show at the very end with just a rather small amount of screen time and then kicks your butt.
That's true only if you don't count Urizen and V as "screentime" for Vergil. Their story and arcs are part of Vergil's arc
@@salsamancer I get that, but Urizen only represents Vergil's power and lust for power. Urizen doesn't really grow and his only real motivation is defeating Dante, which he fails to do because he shed his humanity. Overall the only time Urizen acts as kind of a Rival is when he beats you in the prolog and after that Dante wipes the floor with him twice anf even lectures him about humanity. V represents his human side, his emotions and his fragileness. But I think V's arc of accepting his humanity isn't really well portrayed in the game compared to the manga (Visions of V). The only time Vergil is a Rival again is when he becomes whole again and immediatly establishes himself as a threat strong enough to easily beat Dante who is exhausted from his fight with Urizen. I get that in a nutshell this game is about Vergil hiring Vergil's brother and Vergil's son to defeat Vergil. But I am rather talking about the fact that someone, who has only played DMC5 so far and who might not even understand Vergil's arc, can still recognize Vergil as a legitimate threat and Rival during his actual screentime at the end. SO ENOUGH OF ME NERDING AROUND I NEED TO FINISH THIS COMMENT AT ONE POINT
@@platinumvind Still, the fights between Nero and Urizen/Vergil kinda follow the same pattern as Dante and Vergil in DMC3.
In the prologue, Nero gets his ass kicked against Urizen.
In Mission 8, he manages to actually fight him (despite him having absorbed a lot of blood since their last meeting), but still goes down when Urizen gets serious and needs to be bailed out by Dante.
However, in Mission 20, Nero clashes against the restored Vergil... And actually wins.
In my opinion, Dr. Ivo eggman robotnik will always be sonics greatest rival. I think the ways they both fight perfectly contrasts with each other, what sonic represents (freedom and nature,) and what eggman represents (control and what evils technology does to nature.)
One of my favourite uses of the rival trope has to be in Sekiro.
It's both great from a story and gameplay point of view. I also love the fact that unlike with Sam, the game lets you beat Genichiro at the start while still keeping the rivalry intact. On a first playthrough his introduction serves much the same purpose as Sam's, showing him as our superior so the player is motivated to improve in order to beat him. But on subsequent playthroughs, beating him gives you a bit more of his personality, that he's ready to do anything to achieve victory - an important character trait that'll serve very well as a showcase for thei rivalry.
And afterwards every encounter is a show of progress for the player/Sekiro, and regress for Genichiro. By the final boss that dynamic between them has climaxed, showcased perfectly by rendering him more of a speedbump to the actual final boss, than a boss himself. And said actual final boss is only there because Genichiro's use of any means necessary has also climaxed with him literaly opening a gate to the underworld to beat you. This guy goes from going "hey look" to distract you, to necromacy. It's a lovely dynamic
6:25 You know, one way to demonstrate how the rival is strong is showing he can beat you without effort or with a handicap. Imagine using a fire type pokemon and lose to a grass type one from your rival. That would show a lot of skill from their part.
For the hop from sword and shield defense i belive hop didnt picked a starter to be effective against you but he did to be effective against Leon who picked 3rd starter
That actually does make way too much sense.
That actually makes a lot of sense, since at the beginning of the game Hop talks big about how he's gonna be the next champion and beat his brother (at least until he got utterly wasted by Bede), so it makes sense he would want to choose the Pokémon that is good against Leon's starter
>uses goro majima clip
>never mentions him
>sadness.mp4
Dante and Vergil. What can I say, it's one of the best Rivalries and something I love about it is the family interpretation.
See, after the loss of their mother Vergil has become power obsessed... but as I was playing Devil May Cry 4 again because it's my second favorite DMC, I noticed something. When Nero gets Yamato, Vergil's Sword, he speaks about having an obsession for power, needing more, and because he lost "her". The monologue to confused screaming can be taking as Nero losing his girlfriend and a fear of that, but in context, it makes more sense if Yamato is speaking through Nero, speaking with Vergil's desires. Realizing that I just get another appreciation for Vergil's character.
Why did I say that? Because with this, I think it's Vergil's misguided obsession with power was created with a desire to protect his mother, making his dark ambitions to prove himself right, it doesn't matter if he puts others through his own pain, just as long as he can prove that all he needed was more power. However, he's a Son of Sparda, a Demon who sacrificed himself to battle and conquest out of his love, a Demon known as the Legendary Dark Knight by Humans. To Demons he's a traitor, a traitor that has wrecked havoc against his own kind. It is Sparda's humanity that allowed him to go beyond the power of a regular Demon. Dante Denied his Devil Heritage, however, Dante is more like Sparda than Vergil, and I think that's neat.
Nero is kinda like Dante, except I'd like to say the Grandson of Sparda is even more like Sparda. Nero is fighting for his girlfriend and wife, of which I can't spell the name, a romantic calling to Sparda's full reason to fight, Love, not just in humanity, but of someone in his life. It's what allows Nero to realize his power as a Demon to stop his Father and Uncle from killing each other (even though I have story problems with the disconnected story of 5, power and story progression, combat of V, 5 is my 4th favorite DMC)
TL;DR
Wow these characters have some neat interpretive shit going on