Why is PAYDAY 3 The Way It Is?
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- This is also a response video.
Kknowley's video: • What Makes Payday 2 Be...
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Hey mate! Thanks for making this response video (apologies for being slow on the uptake as UA-cam has only just decided to recommend it to me!) I appreciate your candor and video-making approach, it was an entertaining watch and I also get the impression that we're both on a similar wavelength as far as Payday 3 is concerned. I love the core gameplay and just want to see everything outside of that built upon.
I'm hesitant to point fingers at anyone when it comes to addressing specific complaints as we just don't know the details, but I do feel that the NDA (be it contractual to Plaion, or an internal one) has had a massive impact on the quality and consistency of communication. Regardless, I'm hoping your optimism is about to be rewarded as Update 2 looks brilliant. I know that the team listens to all feedback, especially when as well formatted as this, so keep it coming.
Holy...you actually responded what.
But yeah, I am excited for cook off and murky station, I'm optimistic about payday 3's future and it's definitely something new and needed to be expanded upon.
I'd like to get an interview with both of us when you're up for one to discuss PAYDAY 3's future.
Honestly it is quite regrettable that Almir and the rest of the dev team is bound by NDA. I'm sure that, if it were in their hands they would craft the best experience they could for the payday fanbase but it is rather unfortunate that deep silver had them sign an NDA. not only does this keep fans out of the loop bit it alienates their fanbase more than the launch of payday 3 already did. say what you will about the server issues, I say what I say about the game from a point of "I want the game to get better so everyone can enjoy it." you do raise a few good points in your video though, I can't deny that.
I get that it sucks but, money does talk a LOT.
I wanted to make this video so people can understand from not just a consumer but also a business perspective.
@@Crasherbasher Yeah, that's understandable. I honestly respect the business perspective quite a bit because there is quite a lot that goes in behind closed doors that we, as consumers, don't know about so thank you for shining a light on that.
Bro you literally hit the nail on the head. You missed out a few things, one thing was them buying the Valhalla Game Engine which wasted years of development on Overkills the Walking Dead and maybe even Payday 3 at the time.
Most of your points were thought out, logically said, putting many things in context with the why and how. I couldn't of said it better myself, and I'm glad that someone can represent my views with a considerably bigger voice than my own, which will hopefully gain some attention and consideration.
I do so too, hope it circulates to Kknowley or Red Archer
On the safehouse point, it wasnt that we wanted a copy of Safehouse from Payday 2. My expectation / hope was that a safehouse implemented in payday 3 would be way cooler. at least an interactive vault that displays your money building up c
I was hoping for a truly customizable safehouse. Like it starts off as some rundown abandoned place that's been spruced up a little. The Payday Gang are starting sort of from scratch, after all.
Then you rob banks and collect money and then you customize the floor to be marble, or nice wood. Maybe your safehouse feels like a fortified bunker, maybe mine feels like a shady drug den, maybe we can visit each other safehouse, I dunno. I just like customization.
As seen in the story, they're on the run with no money, people know who they are. They can't afford the risk.
@@CrasherbasherEven on the run, the gang could form a caravan as a mobile safe house of sorts. And the lore is just started. Who knows what the gang will be in next few years. 🤔
@@Crasherbasher Lol, bro, the story is written by people, they could make up any sort of plot device they want. We're not tied to anything just because "they're on the run," because they're fictional characters inside a fictional universe.
if you think its because of the server down hours... and not for the lack of content, or even anything similar to payday 2, you are completly out of your mind.
Did you watch the video
@@Crasherbasher after you said that in the video i stopped. You were going to start saying "uhhhh but payday 2 start was shit too" like 200 other youtubers, and you cant compare 10 years of content... just no. Don't start this bull***t
No, I did not actually, that tells me everything.
@@Crasherbasher yeah i watched a little bit more to find your hipocrisis. 7:45 really? Pre-planning was LORE WISE? And other b***lshit you try to defend aswell... commmmmon. Be less a piece of ****. Why defend this **** that yourself told was a last resort game to keep the company. I don't even know why i belived you.
Dude tagged a bigger youtuber to tell the world that a shit game is fun actually insane
Yeah.
😂😂😂 yes this game isn’t good.
I honestly love everything you had to say. You really pointed out that Payday 3 isn’t just “Payday 2.5”.
Problems still exist and it’s obvious but it’s only a matter of time to see if & how they’re resolved
Good video and you made a lot of good points, however I will say it seems you defend indefensible positions for seemingly no reason other than to explain why something is, even when that should have be done a different way to begin with to avoid the problems it created.
For instance the NDA: it’s probably is not good for a company to sign away rights to talk about content development, or, at the very least, this is bound to upset the community. Sure you can explain why they signed it, but it’s still not a good decision for the games health, and they put themselves into that scenario.
They (most likely) had nowhere else or nothing left to go for.
I'm not defending, I'm just showing an explanation.
Im honestly having a blast despite of me being level 103 with over 100 hours , it gets repetitive sometimes but the overall gameplay is absolutely amazing
Imma just jump to kknowley's defense on one point. That being Crime net. I took it as a point of less about the story and more about functionality. Because as a Matchmaking UI it was far better than what I've seen of payday 3 so far. All the information you needed to know about a given heist that popped up or even from the contract broker was right there, ranging from info about difficulty, XP buffs/debuffs, Type, contract source, rewards, and finally player count.
In pay day 3, from what I've seen, you hop into a lobby (private or public doesn't seem to matter) and choose a heist from a menu that's honestly even more ghoulish then the absolute unit of a list from the contract broker in Pay Day 2.
Sure, I'll give you that we probably shouldn't have gotten crime net as it was, but there's also no denying that what seems to be in the game is the exact opposite of intuitive. A problem that will only get worse with more heists, if payday 3 doesn't shut down in a year or two (not saying that it will, but we've seen alot of games, especially OVK:TWD shut down in less that time).
As verbatim, it probably didn't matter if there was a server browser for Deep Silver (or Starbreeze), they demanded something sellable.
@@Crasherbasher Then forgive me. I did rewatch to vet the statement. however considering we're all talking about the problems with payday 3, It would've been better to lead with the practical reasoning over the story reasoning which would have less priority. Not to say that the story reasoning is invalid in anyway as I previously relented.
Yeh
If we get a progression system fixed and a new heist soon I’ll be happy
They've stated looking into the progression system
And a new heist (syntax error) is coming this winter
At 4:46 there is like a half sec cut of Boris Johnson resigning, them’s the breaks I guess lol
idk why but payday 2 to me looks like it has more realistic graphics than payday 3. maybe im just on crack rn
That's...an opinion
Dirty Ice and the Sharkes bank heist soundtrack when going loud are my favorite tracks. They slap!
It's a tie between NRFTW and Gold and Sharke for me
The Sharke bank hiest soundtrack sound like its saying "big chungus" and i love it
@@dalbagsingh8971 the breakdown between waves sounds so sick! I just want it looped endlessly.
Personally my biggest issues are the matchmaking and lobby systems. Often putting me in empty lobbies, not filling the server after a certain objective and not keeping the team together after a heist. If there was a server browser and those issues were ironed out the game would be twice as enjoyable.
It'll probably happen, it probably wasn't implemented first, they just needed SOMETHING to satisfy Deep Silver
I wish that you could join a game in progress at any point, I am happy to join a game as its ending. Its annoying striking it lucky and finnding a good team then you cant just roll into another game with them, and Having to wait to matchmake playing solo is dumb af. Always online is my biggest hate with the game.
I do not think that it is exusable that there are MASSIVE steps back. We, as consumers who bought the game for 40/60/90 dollars have every right to be pissed of if a sequel is mechanically worse than what came before. Payday 3 is not Payday 2, and it shouldnt be, however there are many things that should have been in Payday 3 coming from Payday 2. Payday 3 SHOULD have been a better, more fleshed out payday 2 - which is basically what a sequel is supposed to do...
Different team over the years.
@@Crasherbasher Which is kinda usual for game development... So what exactly is your point? People still paid money for it and therefore can be angry with them going radio silent about patches etc.
Also are they bobviously building on payday 2 legacy and fame.. which makes "different team over the years" even worse as an excuse.
I understand how you want to use that argument, but it is really just not very good.
No duh that it's a mess involving a paid product.
It's however not a complete loss/rip off, think Borderlands 3 where steam, the literal 90% of a majority for BL had to get Epic or wait a whole year. The game was nigh unplayable and tarnished what made BL2 great.
I'm not giving payday 2 or payday 3 a pass. I'm saying that there's an understanding as to why the way things are.
@@Crasherbasher So? That is in no way an excuse for having to reinvent the wheel a second time, or even worse, lack features that were present at the start of the previous games.
Different team. Different pubisher.
The problem with this whole line of thinking is that it infantilizes Starbreeze and pushes all the blame onto the publisher. Now I'm not saying many of your points aren't true, but that doesn't mean Starbreeze should be let off the hook for the problems. If Deep Silver was the primary reason for the problems then I agree that the proportion of blame is not in the right place, but no matter what situation Starbreeze was in, the decisions that led up to it were also made by them. I'm not saying that those decisions were necessarily wrong ones, but the larger financial context they put the company in are on Starbreezes shoulders and in extension from that, the terms of their deal with Deep Silver are also. I'm not saying it's good, I'm not saying Deep Silver didn't give Starbreeze the wrong end of a shit-stick, I'm just saying that publisher meddling is not always something unexpected. I condemn the publisher for the problems they cause, but many dev companies are in contracts with their publishers because of way fewer of their own decisions and have to deal with even worse terms.
Maybe I'm seeing this wrong, if there are extenuating circumstances that affected Starbreezes financial situation that I don't know of, please tell me.
All I'm saying is, shit on Deep Silver but don't simply swap Starbreeze with them in your criticism, there's a lot of blame to go around for this mess.
Also, when they do improve it, of course we should also then acknowledge this and proportion our further criticism or then praise around the changes.
Just don't do all-or-nothing on this.
EDIT: Also, just because most of the people aren't the same, shouldn't mean that good lessons from the past can be forgotten and that's just okay. If you take over an IP, you should carefully study that IP to determine what works and what doesn't and then iterate and expand those thinking being very mindful of the original. If you want to do something very different, go for it, but then you shouldn't call it Payday.
I didn't say I was defending Starbreeze. I just gave some insight with how it was made.
Plus, even if the invisioned learn from previous developers, there's too many to count for that to be true.
Borderlands 3, Luigi's Mansion, Dead by Daylight, Modern Warfare/CoD, etc etc.
@@Crasherbasher I know you didn't explicitly say that, but your video as a whole does give a lot of reasons many would use to excuse the problems from them. Again, not saying you personally do, that's just why I wanted to point those things out. And yes, there are many games where people didn't learn the lessons of the past, but that doesn't make it good or acceptable. Again, I know you didn't say that, but your statements imply a level of reasonableness to the outcome that I think is unwarranted. Just because bad things happen often doesn't mean they are okay or shouldn't be criticised.
I don't want to come off too negatively though, I agreed with some of your other points, it's just that often when you agree it doesn't always warrant a comment, whereas a disagreement more often does :)
Aye, tis true, thanks for at least understanding
a upgraded Payday 2 years down the line, would've been the better option.
I see points here, but... some of them are hit and miss. but yes, greedy Executives are terrible. You are literally comparing DLC to a supposed to be fully released game in some of these points.. Its just.. bruh.. Yes they caused outrage. But PD3 is a complete downgrade overall to a payday game.
I just think if it wasn't for Deep Silver, Payday 3 would've been amazing. It probably would've been Payday 2 but a new engine, story. BUT the cut scenes in PD3 is a power point and no actual video...
I wish they used the actuall running animations for pistols, like now it only holds the pistol down and it used to be so stylish running with a pistol in your hand like why? 😭
New engine I suppose
@@Crasherbasher but what does the engine have to do with the anims? I am a small dev and from what i know there arent many big changes to how animations work in general.
Different team? Idk really
I can’t believe you called payday2 progression bloated and payday3 harsh but fair one had me playing for hundreds of hours and the other got me bored after 30 there’s a clear superior progression.
Ah yes 500x100 levels that mostly involve doing a certain pattern over and over again yeah not bloated
@@Crasherbasher Because having to get 50-100-...-1000 suppressed/ADS/hipfire/kills with every weapon definitely isn't bloated or a pattern of any kind. Just like having to beat heist X on Normal-...-Overkill Y times.
I'm agree across the board. In payday 2's long development, I felt more that they loved the community but also needed money. This one feels like the roles are flipped and money is the first thought with the community being on the back burner. If it's a different company in the driver seat, that would make waaay more sense then the blatant ignorance of the community by the devs. I stand with Overkill as always. I hope they get back on track soon
In the story we are back to zero. So, why not have a safe house that we could build up. It could have made the payday gang feel like they getting back on their feet. Make the safe better, thats what I wanted. Also, I need to do something with all this damn money.
They're on the run from the conspiracy, so the new (old) safehouse is probably gone too.
If you sit down and think about it for more than a few seconds... They're on the run. You really think it would be a good idea to keep EVERYTHING you're stealing to start over in one place? Where it could all be wiped out again in one go if they're tracked down? The heists happen all over the place, it wouldn't make sense having a home base and traveling everywhere just to go back home with 20 bags full of cash. It makes more sense that they're moving from place to place.
Maybe further down the line with DLC we'll get an updated safe house and they'll add to the story to fit it in.
Guess fun ideas that only add more content to the bear bones game is conflicting with the lore masters. I'm sorry.
@@Crasherbasherwait a second, I just realized that your rebuttal to not having pre-planning was also because it doesn't fit into the lore. You need better arguments to justify missing gameplay mechanics.
Deep Silver/Starbreeze wanted something sellable.
This game took everything thing good from payday 2 and through it out the fu cking window like the excuse the devs use that it wasn’t out on release just doesn’t work
Not everything
You're probably thinking of Borderlands 3
Burger King coupons are a pretty good deal IMO
it just sounds like a bunch of hate on deep silver and overkill is okay and thats fine but there working as a team to create payday 3 thats been years in the making and it really underwhelming i dont i feel like overkill did this to themselves same with deep silver i feel like the game needs a big ui rework and some of the gameplay system the game was barley playable when it came out ive never been so sad for a game release i was so excited for payday 3 but was very disappointed ten whole years and this is what we got and its honestly not just payday 3 but so many games nowadays just come out unfinished but i guess people are still gonna buy a unfinished game and prey it gets better
I hope so
Good video but yeah there are some points that aren't as good as you may think they are, imo
The three that immediately stand out to me are the "you can't play for 4 days and that's the straw that broke the camel's back?" Yes, because it's the launch, that's why they made two betas, to not have this happen, plus Payday 2 wasn't unplayable at those points, Crimefest 2015 was a disgrace, but you could play the game you paid for. That's the big difference. Also they didn't take responsibility for the issues this time: the launch? blame of the third party server company, the PS5 having a beta version and the long time for the update? Sony's fault. The lack of Golden Edition DLC masks? Sony I guess. Why no other companies have those issue?
Second point: public lobbies, you could've just said "don't you guys have three friends that have $40?". Jeez, thanks Activision/Blizzard-man.
And third, you didn't actually argued against the numbers being better than the bars, which was the actual argument being pointed out in the clip you shared, you were saying that the current system of attachments is better, that's great, doesn't have anything to do with numbers being shown (maybe it wasn't even your intention to argue against that point, but to me it didn't come out as such).
Keep doing what you're doing, though. Even if I disagree with a lot of what you said, the more voices there are out there, the better.
The epic crossover made payday 2 unplayable for a week.
Then go find friends? Get a group together?
The bars themselves can be changed but his main argument was the lack of attachments/difference.
@@Crasherbasher how can I find friends in payday 3 if the lobby doesn't have chat at the very least?
why should I force my current friends to buy the game if they're not interested?
why do I have to go and look for other friends?
Again, same logic of "don't you guys have phones?"
It's not a good argument, when a chat can be added easily. It wasn't a good argument when Diablo Immortal was announced, and is not a good argument now.
The Epic crossover ruined online play, not offline play, again you could still play the game you paid for, and even if it weren't the case, the game was already out for 10 years, in the case of Payday 3 it was the launch, VERY different circumstances.
Literally from the transcript of the video in the clip you showed:
"Weapon stats have
been painfully dumbed down too right
back to how things were for release
Payday 2 which was a massive point of
contention back in the day meaning we
really are just going around in circles
numerical feedback is simply Superior
and there's nothing stopping the devs
from displaying the bars alongside
numbers."
Maybe he did argue against the attachment system now, just saying it's not in the clip you showed or close by it, would've been better to show that part instead.
Eh, it's what it is
Eventually (after 17ish months) when the contract is over, Overkill will most likely change a lot for the better. It took 10 years for payday, and as they've said, it wasn't a race, it was a marathon, that's how payday 3 will be.
Payday 2 took a decade to get to where it is and it was keeping the lights on
Payday 3 is going the same route
It's a marathon
This 100% love payday 3.
Great vid man, keep up the good work
Thank you, be sure to join my discord or subscribe for more vids like this
I just really hope that they stick to their vision and try to improve on that instead of mutating the game into "pd2 but modern"
Probably after 18 months (that's when the contract possibly ends)
Can't wait for the power creep :(
I will keep blaming the community for the downfall of Payday 3, no matter what.
And I was fucking right all along.
Lots of good points though it does kinda feel you are being more generous than needed with the devs
Mostly because I understand from a business and game developer perspective
So is it worth it to get the game or not I wanted to get it but it seems like it’s going through payday2 cycle
Worth it and if you need players, join my discord
100% agree with u bro. sucks there are so many dumbasses who have successful youtube channels. like this dude benji, i just watched a video from him and this dude doesnt even know what changelogs are.. but people watch his trash and believe him. thank you for pointing out all this stuff bro. snowflake world we live in
i truly think knowley didn't go to in depth is because hes a starbreeze partner
Who knows
Thank you for this video! Now people can see how wrong they are. I love payday 3!
People having a negative opinion on something you like doesn’t make them wrong 😂 it’s their opinion
Personal opinion, but I really enjoyed the H3 DLC. It was for a good cause and it was funny. May have not fit the tone of everything else at the time, but I really enjoyed that one.
At the time it was to help H3 with his lawsuit, which turned out all for nothing as it settled before the dlc.
Then years later, H3 is hypocritically dping what he was in trouble for
@Crasherbasher True, and I can agree with you on the H3 hiprocaracy. Not the biggest advocate for their channel lol. But the cause they were trying to fight in the lawsuit did have merit, and it was for a good cause, so I support DLC for that part alone. The developers (or whoever was responsible in the company) were trying to be on the right side of something. So I can never fault them for that. Even if it was with H3 lol
I like this guy
Thanks
7:34 he’s not gone. He’s uhh….
Well…
No spoilers
You mean where he was the president for a bit?
McKendrick is now.
I hope they retcon this
@@Crasherbasher oh yeah I forgot about that part I was just hinting that he is dead
Soo basically
It's all Deep Silver's fault
It's not much of a blame game
Eh, wouldn't put it past Overkill Starbreeze. Both parties could and maybe are to blame but let's not do that.
Loved your video, totally agree with all you said.
Payday 3 also gives me the feelings of playing payday 2 for the first time.
But I still don't get why people cry about not having offline mode.. Why don't they just create a private lobby?
Anyone who can afford to buy PD3 and a PC that runs it, also can afford internet connection...
It has to do with it being mainstream
What happens when OVK's servers shut down? Or when they break for days on end like on launch? Once those are gone, the game is over. Servers running on peer-to-peer means it can go on forever as long as at least 2 people want to play it online
Same with (hopefully, please) dbd
because with offline mode you can play even when they kill the servers
or hell, people could've played on launch, lmao
@@CrasherbasherIt's mainstream for good reason.
People aren't guaranteed to have Internet or good enough Internet to play games without massive amounts of lag all the time.
This is just a common sense position, has nothing to do with jumping on a mainstream bandwagon.
Great video good job.
Thank you
Hehe
U should play new heist bruhh
I did.
@Crasherbasher did you like it ?
@@Crasherbasher I thought it was decent fun
Yes
goober standpoint, massive amount of copium coming from this video. Get Real buddy this game is shit and will be for a long time.
Bruh.
eating a subway sandwich on a balcony, eating a subway sandwich on a balcony, eating a subway sandwich on a balcony, eating a subway sandwich on a balcony, eating a subway sandwich on a balcony, eating a subway sandwich on a balcony, eating a subway sandwich on a balcony, eating a subway sandwich on a balcony,@@Crasherbasher
You made an account just to respond to this video.
The hate-posting is real
Touch grass
Honestly, this video made me reconsider my stance with PD3, i think I might try to do that first heist I was locked out of on launch XD. But for real, I might wait for the next big update before I dedicate the space on my computer.
I really hated the new armour system until they fix it I'm not coming back to this game
You mean you need to be careful and not just run into a crowd of cops?