"TOW" THE DRIVER THRU IMPACT! Milo Lines, PGA on Be Better Golf explains HOW TO HIT DRIVER
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- Опубліковано 14 чер 2020
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Thanks for giving me the time in front of your audience! The exposure has been great and their response has been overwhelmingly positive.
I have an issue with my wrist rolling in the back swing that I can’t seem to fix so my face is my main issue thanks for this video. I love the example of how it can go wrong when you do the drill to get the feel right. Incredible job!!
@@ronnleffler7201 qaaaqaqaqaa 111a111
how tight do u hold the grip
Please come back to So Cal. Brendon had to make the clinic on my wife’s Birthday.
Milo, to ingrain this move into one’s game, how long would you recommend someone plays with this drill in mind?
Brendon and Milo, great stuff. Love the simplicity of Milo’s swing. No huge face rotation. Turn thru, swing left, hands forward, face square.
Everyone who is serious about improving their swing needs to give this a try. Tried it at the driving range 2 separate times. Hit the ball more consistently than I ever have. I am 75 years old. Just finished my first 18 holes using it. We were playing a 4 person scramble. My tee shot was used on every shot except one. I need to feel that I am pulling the driver head into the ball. I keep pulling even after impact. Works great! I had not played this course in over 2 years. I was hitting it distances that were hard to believe. I will be using the method with my irons after I practice more. The ball goes exactly where it should. Club face control seems to be the only variable. The path is very stable. Thanks Milo!
I found a way to do that without thinking about backswing, face position or really anything but doing one simple thing: Swinging into my finish position. Once I identify the Finish Position I want, I just swing to it. I find it simplified the swing greatly. Have never in my life stuck the ball as solid and straight. And has made partial swing shots now possible, which introduces variety of flight trajectories. And that's the key to scoring in wind and conquering partial shots.
Whoa what was also impressive was at 3:21 when Brendon speared the ground with the alignment stick. Great follow through man.
If Milo talks - I listen. Man knows his sh** and his channel is a great resource. This video struck a good balance. No unnecessary add-Ons - just solid drills and fundamental concept clarification. I’m gonna find it hard to be patient enough to wait for the next one!!😄🤙🏻
Now, I have to save this into my playlist and watch it 3 times a day to engrave it into my head permanently.
Milo,
This is revolutionary for someone like me. Back in the 1980s we were taught to keep the upper left arm tight to our chest throughout the entire swing and return the handle to address position at impact. That was supposed to create consistency.
What it created was consistency all right: A consistent high spin low launch drive. That’s the opposite of the low spin high launch drive the best drivers in the game use. Downwind we hit it a ton but into the wind we were toast.
I’m going to try this drill after dinner this evening. It seems physically sound to me but it sure will feel different.
John
18 handicapper. Watched this video. Shot +1 in a nine hole competition. I finally get it. Thanks.
Let’s hope your great performance is contagious!
I've been struggling with getting a positive attack angle for years! I'd have paid $300 for lessons....this helped immediately! Thanks for this!
A really excellent video. I was searching for a better definition of hitting up on the ball with driver. Strangely enough my brain says hands must be behind club face and ball to hit up on the ball counterintuitive to what you really want to do. Tow the club thru the ball. I have a penchant to read the comments, noted EC commented along those lines you guys could take a lesson from him. He tells you what he’s doing while he’s doing it which really brings the point home. This video is becoming the one I watch the most! Brendon stop being in such a hurry to hit it hard you have a wonderful swing.
Exactly Milo is too nice! He needs to hit 30-50 like this and gradually increase the length and then when he messes up go back to original. More patience!
One time, a long time ago, a fellow showed me what he was learning from his golf pro. He showed me how to "turn" better to hit the ball. I was really big on just taking a 3/4 swing and playing more "hands and arms," and doing so well at it (handicap of 5) that I I didn't ever take the "turn" thing seriously. But, I did realize I could not hit the ball as far as I probably could -- sometimes I would really hit the ball far, but didn't really know why, what I did right. So I rarely took such risks as "swinging hard." But when I did swing hard, I actually had a high percentage of success. I did not know that I was using my hips and "turning" properly when I hit the ball over 300 yards. (I was a guy that was always on the fairway at 250 yards, but fearful of swinging too firmly, fearful that I'd hit a ball in the woods, or, worse, OB.) Well, I got into that "turn" thing at the range with that fellow (I mentioned) coaching me a little. I started hitting the ball pretty good, and really FELT the "release" at the bottom. We played 27 holes one day, without warming up first. On the first 9 I was very hands-arms, my usual conservative self, and shot 40. On the second 9 I was working in the "turn" move better and releasing better, and shot 36, even par. Finally on the third 9 I was really feeling the "turn" thing. And the clubhead was being "towed" from my left hand, arm, and shoulder, even the whole left side -- and I hit some really long and beautiful shots. In fact, I hit the 3 iron as long as I have EVER hit it,, and high. My friend and I were waiting on a par 5 hole for the group in front to finish on the green. My friend had already hit. I was waiting a about 235 out. He says "What are you waiting for, just hit, you're not going to reach them with a 3 iron." I said "Yes, I will, I am "turning" like you taught me. He rolled his eyes, shook his head (while smoking on his cigar). Well, I did the full power swing with a "turn" and it was a high pretty draw shot that came in high and hit near the back of the green but stuck, 20 feet from the hole, the ball mark was about 6 feet behind the pin -- easily 235 in the air. My friend with an open mouth expressing disbelief just gave me a dirty look, like I had been holding back all along -- we played for money, but not much, just a buck a hole. Well, I shot 4 under for that last 9. He said "We weren't playing for money were we?" Not on the last nine I told him. I told him I was working in that "turn" concept of his, and that is what accounted for the power and control. He didn't call me back to play golf. I saw him in Roger Dunn's about 6 months later, and I said let's play. I was still "turning" at that time, and he could not keep up with me. He was an 8 handicap himself, but he could not keep up with me while I was "turning" like that.
But I have "lost" that "turning" (and "towing") concept. Well, I have to earn a living, and sometimes golf has to take a back seat to earning a living. I will be working on getting that "turning" (and "towing") concept working again here soon. I am going to be getting back into golf. I hope I can still do it. That really made golf fun.
I should probably take a lesson from Milo -- but he is so far away from me there in AZ. I'm from L.A.
Yep. Similar story to mine. I discovered it by "accident" by practicing Sergios shoulder turn (back,down and out) with a wrist hinge in flexion and passive arms. So it was a combo of Sergio and Tommy Fleetwood. In 35 degree temp and 3 layers on I was hitting my 9 iron 145-150 carry where my normal summer time swing would carry 125-130. Anyway went from shooting 79-88 to 70-80 immediately because my distances were much greater. Went from 0-3 g.I.r to 7-10 g.I.r.! Crazy instant improvement. Had it for 2 cold months and then lost it from damn thing called work.😄. Now after 2 arduous golfing years this drill got that feeling back! So excited!
@@nicholasdemetriades9154
You know, the “improvements” when they come almost instantly, and are always like 10 stroke improvements - and they stick until you lay off, and then it gets lost. And then back to the drawing board. I stopped playing as I moved to Oregon in October of 2020, and everything was shut down - lost my swing, and only now getting it back. Also gained 30 lbs and just now got that off. And I say I got my swing back, and that was like just 2 weeks ago. So end of summer and really did not play well until recently. Sam Snead said if he took a day off and did no golf it would take him a week to get back to where he was. And said if he took a week off he would need a month to get back where he was. Always do a little something with your swing each day, even if it is just some practice swinging for 15 minutes. I did not do that, and it took me all summer to get my swing back. Just saying now that you are humming along don’t neglect your swing. Do a little maintenance on it each day.
Just discovered these videos gentlemen. They clarify and answer so many questions-especially why the club should not be thrown in d/s! Thanks so much for sharing these! Regards Ian
Really love this channel. Really refreshing to see someone who dosnt claim to be an expert, but instead involves many other people in order to provide a balanced and well rounded view on the golf swing! Great job! 👍
He does a great job!
Milo you have helped me no end with this video. My wrist conditions and club head speed have both improved. Your simple explanation of the technique and physics is phenomenal. Thank you, well done and keep it up!
Good video guys!
Lol love how Milo hits it so good he no longer needs to even watch it :)
I was with him 3 days. He hit exactly 1 drive that wasn’t perfect and that was because I asked him to hit a shot and show me when exactly the hands start squaring the face. A hook, lol. Very few times he would miss his line fairway but with driver it was always super solid. He has the knack for sure.
Thx EC!
Eric it’s still fun to watch them fly!
Golfletics Hey Milo, great Video and Instruction. With a Clubheadspeed of 120+ mph Clubheadspeed what is your angle of attack with Driver with your technique? Are u hitting down like most of the tourpros (avg. -1,5) or up? For us Amateur 100 mph and less it’s better to hit up. Thx
Bernd Dreilich up 3-4 generally
I am glad you guys found Milo. I don't understand why he isn't in the top 50 golf instructors, at least for a full swing. Maybe this exposure will get him there.
This makes the most sense of all the videos I’ve seen about lag.
Great 👍
Golfletics I do have a question about impact tho. I can definitely feel like I’m pulling the club with my body up till the club is approaching impact. Parallel to the ground. Do you have a video that shows how to keep pulling with the body or do you push out with the arms at that point?
MrBrokentowels
.:445
Best explanation of the proper impact ever, nice and simple. Thanks y’all for sharing this.
Brendon this video was Golden. This is the absolute best ever explanation of how to maintain wrist conditions face square to path with max wrist extension drill. Explanation leading all the way from transition to past impact. Amazing!
🙏
Thanks Brendan, I really enjoyed the Milo Lines series. I have been applying some of these methods in my practice routine.
The best explanation of the driver swing. I do this with the single plane swing. Thank you.
This video along with the next one is going to help me. Thank you to both of you.
Milo and his whole Golflectics stuff is just plain awesome. The best thing about it, so much applies to us average guys. He's got an awesome lesson on more clubhead speed....be warned , it is not a process of a trick or two, but rather a series of exercises. Nothing worthwhile is easy...I think we all know this.
👍
Excellent video. The point Milo makes about the club face being open is a great point, cause and effect.
👍
Milo that was a really good lesson. Your student seemed to grasp it when he quit trying to think about the 50 other tips he’s been given. Not sure if he actually got the concept but I did. Very good advice translating golf to other sports especially baseball and hockey. Natural movement makes the game fun! Keep it up! Hit Bombs!
I just finished reading most of the comments. It seems that many people are confused about what Milo is saying. Just "tow" the clubhead through impact and beyond. There is no need to think about releasing the club. This is definitely counterintuitive. Most golfers would think the ball would go right ( right handed golfers). It does not go right. If it does, you need to strengthen your grip. I can fade or draw the ball with this method. The faster you pull through the ball, the farther it goes. It's great not to have to time the release. Give it a try. This is brilliant!
Brendan, this is great stuff. Just saw this and tried Milo’s drill. It is the best drill I have found that translates to the course. I did approx 15-20 small swings with the drill and then gradually lengthened the backswing until I was hitting almost my full distance. This is great stuff guys. Thank you!
Yeah for sure. Same here. 2 years ago I copied Sergios left shoulder moves and finished like Tommy Fleetwood. I was crushing it with baby draws. Left side was open. Wrist hinge on back swing. And used body to propel club. Had it for 2 months. Shot a -2 and several rounds mid 70's. Whereas previously mostly 80-90 range! Then lost it somehow. But this brought the feeling back! Think I lost it from trying to hit too much from the top. And getting lazy.
This is GREAT!!! I can't wait to get to the range to work on this...
this is a very important video, for anyone watching i would couple this with one of the shawn clement's videos, it goes hand in hand.
Brendan - Milo's downswing process reminds me of your previous considerations on the 'trebuchet lag'.
😉
In table tennis I did this differently. I kept my wrist straight on the backswing. Then the weight of the paddle and acceleration of the arm laid the wrist back as you swung forward. No muss, no fuss. But great drill and video I have been working on this with limited success using neither method. Will try both.
Good questions to lead the instructions.
Super nice golf course. Very scenic!
Great vid work here!
Demonstration with the video really good.
Great video - fantastic swing Milo
This is so helpful.
I can't wait to try this out
I like this one. I've been using a training aid to keep that position with my irons. Going to try the "chip with driver" drill today.
Great. Video thanks will try later today at the range👍
Brandon- I like the leading questions that result in the answers that I am looking for as I watch these videos. GREAT JOB!
great video, for what its worth, I find my best chance of hitting it by towing is to focus on feeling like I have both hands in front of the ball at impact - and my best visualisation is to feel like I move both hands and club handle at the same speed throughout the swing. Not sure if I have explained that very well.
This Sunday on the Rocket Mortgage Classic broadcast Sir Nick Faldo said "the golf swing is a giant chip shot"
This is a great drill. Another similar thought from another UA-camr in my fav library playlist comes from Martin Chuck who describes it as - “ don’t run out of right arm” !
What I like about your channel is how your journey is so similar to many golfers. I have played for over 20 years and have gone through many of the same ideas you work on. It can be frustrating to play with naturals. My brother who is 6’ 4” can hit a drive 350 on the fly but can’t really articulate how he does it besides his raw strength and height. I genuinely believe they average golfer could consistently carry 300 with proper technique and equipment. Will enjoy seeing where you go when you get there.
I watched this video again. I love this concept. I pretty much implemented this immediatly. I noticed more control , lower and less spinny ball flight and much more consistent contact. Yesterday I hit a few balls on my course where I havent been all year.
I noticed another thing I changed was At setup I use to have a cupped left wrist and ive made it flatter, which I assume is correct. But all this is kind of based on my takeaways from Milo. Im going to sign up for an online lesson soon. I like his style and personality!
Many BBG viewers have! lemme know what he tells you to do.
Yup, Brendan asked the absolute right question: "How are you taking care of the face"? Essentially, by keeping the clubhead square to the path. You then won't have to stop at the ball to readjust it. The drill, at least, is a lot like the square-to-square, GG, "hitting it with the pivot" (from an instructor whose name escapes me now), and is in the vein of Paul Wilson's body swing, to be fair. KEEP ROTATING. It LOOKS so easy, it's GOT to work for me: Famous last words. :) Thanks for the video.
Excellent I like the precept have to work on that. Thank you
👍
Great video. I’ve been watching this video for many times, and I am also guessing the key to this success, is that the right shoulder need to feel lower and right side really bend in the downswing ?
great stuff. Milo really canes it
Hi B - that seemed like A LOT OF WORK! I admire your perseverance.
Lol, I think I’m supposed to make it look easy. Lol. This drill is straightforward but almost impossible to do once you start getting the speed up.
@@BEBETTERGOLF yes i noticed this in my practice, however with my irons, it has been a life saver or rather stroke saver
Perfect video!
Milo is probably one of the best teachers out there of the modern golf swing.
🙏
I've brought down my dynamic loft in driver and had to set driver to 11 degress and getting the best contact by letting left hand gradual rolling over throw impact and not having 2 way miss holding angles with no release
I like the thought of towing the clubhead with relaxed right wrist. Obviously we are focusing on an isolated movement. There are those who will try this with no success. So I would have cautioned that it will not work without proper rotation and maintaining proper spine angle throughout downswing. Milo covers these points in other videos.
Loving that drill
Brilliant stuff gents!
👍
Hi Milo, you mentioned in other videos how you use a stronger grip. Combined with what looks like your ball being a bit more forward of your left heel, how do you prevent your face from being too closed at impact?
How does this compare to the teachings of using the golf pro training aid? Thanks
What is the link to the video you mentioned shaft lean with irons?
Hi Brendan, I'm a bit confused now. What you have shown here looks exactly like the issue I have with driver. Impact and body stall. I have been following Mike Malaska for a few years now and done alot of work but this looks so much like what Mike swears against, squaring the face with rotation, (towing the club). Although I thought both Mike and Milo are at Superstition Mountain. I've seen them together on UA-cam videos also. I now have what feels like a Malaska technique for my irons but have to use Milos TOW THE CLUB for my driver. Would love your thoughts on this if possible. Thanks mate 👍.
So do you not throw the club through impact like a whipping motion? Do you hold it even through impact?
The catch is that the hands may seem forward in a 2 dimensional front view but in reality the hands are lagging in relation to the torso rotating through impact.
🎯
Great Stuff
Now I see why Milo is such an accurate driver of the golf ball. Brendan your swing is looking good!!! Long Beach open this year?
👍
I'm self taught 19 yrs playin I've swung like the for stability for along time ,some days if I don't warm up first I'll duck hook the first 2 holes then ill straighten up
I agree with your comment that "It's being towed" is perhaps the one major takeaway from this video. That mental image (when I swing) is a perfect complement to the swing changes I've been working on recently.
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Great video; this stuff fits in with everything I have worked on recently and I find it to be the best for me. This may sound like an odd question but trust me that it is very valuable to understanding proper setup. Could you find out and let us know whether Milo is right or left eye dominant? I’m hoping left but am not sure.
Right
Nice
Great video content. Stop trying to hit the ball 250 yards when doing the drill and I agree “we need to get you to do this a lot!!”
👊
B, thanks for a good video (again) 👍. I have been working on this concept for 2 years now, and know it’s working. All the disbelievers are wrong👍😄
Yeah definitely! I had it down pat for 2 months practicing and playing 6/7 days because I never hit the ball with so much compression and nice baby draws. Got to where if I had 130 or 135 I could hit a PW. Lost it from a layoff and never got it back until now (2 yrs later)! I'm a firm believer in Milos concept s! By the way my scores went from 80-89 to 70-80 when I had this motion. So yes a huge difference in ball striking,confidence and distance.
My man made this really simple drill look super complex lol. I love it though. Looks like my knockdown driver. The question I have is on shaping it from there because for me the face always feels open
Great, shot tracer would help...thnks
This drill works. Even tho It seems counter intuitive. I mean you always hear about releasing the club to utilize lag at impact but this drill has you holding off the release and maintaining the lag thru impact. I'm thinking the release will be natural at impact?
I tend to roll it open on the back swing. Whats the best way to fix that? Was fooling around with the right wrist and stumbled onto something similar. So the rotation keeps that lag tension?
Yes make sure your grip is sound. I like to push down the heel pad of the right hand on the left thumb which keeps the left wrist flat and the club face square to the path.I have a neutral grip (2 knuckles visible at setup with left hand) Your back swing will feel shorter but doesn't matter as long as you're making a full shoulder turn. Make lots of half swings. It helped me to visualize Tommy Fleetwood finish so I wouldn't use the wrists in flipping motion. Gradually ramp up the speed of your pivot. You should be reaching or passing your usual distances. It will feel very strange the first few days but stick with it. Also make sure you keep your buttocks in the box. Another words stay in your tilts and sidebends. Good luck!
Milo has the absolute best swing. Thanks for the video!
🙏
Right (or trailing) wrist bent (backward) through impact! That simple!
Yet, the faster the swing and the closer to impact, the easier to lose that bent!
Strong pivot soft hands Ben Hogan comes to mind good track to explore for sure Thx for your work
Absolutely
Soft arms It should actually be
If you have forward lean on a driver, how to you hit up on the ball?
Wish I'd found Milo when I first started playing. This is naturally how my swing works - got lost for a long time trying to get less shaft lean with driver (because I thought it was wrong). Swing speed fell off with longer irons and driver. Didn't understand why my 9i was 85mph and driver barely 100. Embracing this feeling, and changing nothing else, driver is now averaging right around 110 with the occasional 115+ It is a MUCH flatter flight. Spin rates now hovering right at 2000 rpm, launching at 14. Curious about controlling direction - noticing this also creates a left path, so promotes a fade.
Your a quick study
Yes! Nice work. Me too. Don't know my swing speeds but my 9 iron carry distance went from 125-130 to 140-145+ I discovered this swing accidentally incorporating Sergios left shoulder move for irons and Tommy Fleewoods finish. Now after watching this video I hope I never lose this swing again! Had it for 2 incredible golfing months and lost it for 2 years! Was ready to quit! Like going from a Lamborghini to a Toyota Celica
What is the loose wrist and your pivot doesn’t create the extension that you desire. Can you actively consciously hold it / load it?
In the training phase I recommend learning to hold it
Do you use the same process with all clubs including irons?
Yes sir
Is there no release?
Controlled block?
Verbiage matters. Club being towed, water skier, jack knife trailer all make sense to me
I like calling it "towed" over "lag tension". All too frequently players confuse lag and lag tension.
Hand position of “towing” or pulling the club through the ball versus releasing the club angles too early and “pushing” the club through the ball is kinda like a car with front wheel drive versus rear wheel drive. Front wheel drive cars do much better in snow as opposed to rear wheel drive cars. You want to hit the ball like a front wheel drive car.
Hmm. Good analogy. Thanks. This is definitely a potentially more consistent way to play golf and if you move the body properly in sequence A powerful one as well.
As with the iron swing, this type of swing requires a lot of rotation and I tried it on the range and have hurt my back, I am 71 though. Is this better suited to a younger man with more flexibility?
Ben Hogan used it until your age, but I suppose you need to have some decent core to protect yourself
My challenge with this is then my AoA gets really negative and I get a ton of spin. I watched the other video where he talks about how the left leg works in the swing... Now if I could just get some range time to work on these 2 things!
To do it right you probably need to put your ball position way more forward than you are used to and then resist the urge to sway left to cheat it.
@@BEBETTERGOLF Thanks for that tip man, that has been my fault! Keep up the great content it's always super informational.
Thank you for your instruction, guys! To understand the difference between Milo and Malaska, simply look at their swings. The only way Milo can get his hands to impact with the shaft forward and right wrist still bent back is via his excellent body rotation (pivot). It is a wonderful athletic motion, hence the name Golfletics. Anyone who can do this, should definitely swing this way. Malaska, on the other hand, does not swing with an athletic pivot, in comparison. It is still good, but nothing like Milo's. Milo wants his students to make the most of their body rotation (pivot), and to do it as athletically as possible. Mike realizes that an athletic pivot is difficult for many players and focuses more on the arm swing and less on body rotation. Is this an accurate assessment, Brandon and Milo?
I’d say Mike explains things more from the arms driving the motion and the body reacting and I prefer to feel the pivot slinging the arms and club. The end goal is the same no right or wrong way to swing it. Our teaching comes from our experience with this and other games and we both make students better.
👏 well said, I started watching Mike and moved to Milo because I’m way to armsy .
So would it be a good idea to combine this drill with the feeling of the left foot pushing out while trying to keep vertical force as early as possible?
No. I went too early and it leads to a flip.
Yes. It kind of feels like you are waiting for it in transition similar to crushing a baseball.
I like that Concept very much! It’s much more like an iron or modern wedge swing controlled thru the pivot. Makes sense that the first step is to get the clubhead fixed first to get it closed thru impact. I‘ll try that out ... guess I“ll get a lot of pushes and slices first. Awesome stuff! Would be great to get a supercontrolled Drive that carries like 250y for me and feels like a wedge shot.
I just discovered TrackMan’s new AI, Tracy. My driver club speed is only around 73 so she keeps giving me drills to increase my spin loft. There is no help out there for this. I feel like I need to to try the opposite of this which I have worked on and think I do pretty well but delofts the club. Any advice for slower swingers?
I keep naturally swinging more over the top when I try rotating left. Is this something that you find also?
Keep your hands inside and get your left hip out if the way before impact
With the hands so far forward at impact this delofts the club. So does that mean the driver needs to have high loft ?
No, just put it forward in your stance for driver.
Milo has a 10 degree driver
Hits up 5
Delofts 4
Ball Launches at 11, compressed with low spin.
I think the answer is not "no" but "maybe". As Brandon indicates when he says, "just put it forward in your stance for driver", you can adjust. But if you were custom fitted for 8 degrees, and you suddenly learn to keep lag tension, increase trail, or tow the club, you will lose loft. So, going to a higher loft club would probably increase your distance and accuracy. But if you are towing better, you get more clearance from the turf, so it is possible that you may learn to hit up 5 degrees like Milo does, or more! Then you might not need to switch to higher lofted club, or possibly do better with a different shaft as you may have increased your swing speed. You may also need to tweak your fade and draw settings as the towing may obfuscate these bandages to your previous swing flaws. But what do I know. I have never been fitted, and I am struggling to get even close to towing at impact! But the theory should be applicable. I am slowly learning from Brandon's great videos!
You're powerless effort vs. effortless power. It's a rhythm thing. Whatever method you use depends on the right rhythm to make it work. Listen to your breathing. It's always wrong.
But, as always, I love your channel. You epitomize selflessness.
So are you saying hold the release of the right hand
Milo, are you “towing” it thru with the left or right side… or using both? Please explain.
Check out the videos on my channel for more detailed explanations
Trevino with a normal neutral stance… left side towing
Oh I wish Milo would talk more and explain it my gosh I’m so confused
Best advice I ever got to get everything in sequence is to feel that the body is facing the target BEFORE impact. Hard to get that feeling if you lead with the arms on the downswing. I improved immediately... went from utterly useless to moderately useless with the odd proper shot. :)
😂
Wouldn’t this depend on shaft flex?