Dystopian literature really began when the two World Wars, the Great Depression, and more socio-political unrest in the world began to disrupt the utopian aspirations of science fiction at the time. So enters Brave New World.
This series leaves me with a great deal more to read, but I also wondered if you also have any recent (relatively speaking) works that would be of note? Of course time has not passed far enough for classics to be born, but I’d love your opinion on the matter.
I absolutely love BNW, and one of my favorite parts are what you emphasized here: it's the rare dystopian novel where the totalitarian government isn't evil just for the sake of being evil, or because of greed or whatnot. The government in BNW believes that it's doing right, that they have created a utopia, and the villains are allowed to state their case without the author creating an obviously wrong strawman. This world came to be because of basically good people working with the best of intentions to make it so. It makes us question any utopic vision that we're presented with: would this perfect world really be as perfect as we dream of? What would we have to give up to achieve it, and are those sacrifices worth it?
I don’t think that the rulers was working for the best intentions , neither Aldous Huxley. In the BNW that I have, Huxley in the prefacio says that the dictators will have the task to make people love their freedom. It’s not very much good intention.
Nobody ever read a novel, browsed a comic book, or watched a TV show about a perfect & peaceful world of plenty and came away entertained. Even Star Trek needed Klingons. Except for a while after the 50's. After WW2, those folks just wanted to think everything was cool, like The Fonz, and live in Mayberry next to The Cleavers. The lesson? Utopia seems like a pretty good deal after battling the horrors of Dystopia.
I never imagined Mond's arguments as this slightly aggressive tone - I imagined a sort of geniality. He more or less knows and agrees, but has made a choice based on rational judgement. The Savage never really gives good arguments, he just expresses his emotions and lets them stand in for arguments.
@@Nycolas9929 so what arguments did you come up with? I personally have to admit that I'd prefer to live in the BNW, assuming, I was conditioned and not an outsider visiting
BNW shows us a world kept under control through comfort. 1984 shows us a world kept under control through hate. Modern day has both of these in high amounts.
War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. Identity, Community, and Stability. If there is one redeeming feature of a dystopia, its the slogans.
@@capeewee what about the teliscreens that's my favorite right behind the ideologies neo bulshivisn otherwise known as Nazbul gang and the dumbest one of all DEATH WORSHIPERS you know people who like to ship dead people like Julia.
I loved Brave New World so much more than 1984. I thought that bright and shiny BNW had so much more potential to actually happen than bleak and dark 1984.
Brave new world works better because people are "happy" and therefore don't feel the need to be against the system. Most totalitarian states have failed because people are against it Sorry for my bad english
Aldous addresses this very same thing in Brave New World Revisited (1958) and argues for your case, if I recall correctly it isn't far from the beginning of the essay, so you should find it easiily
I'd say 1984 is just as likely, it's just going to come after the BNW stage, where the generation that remembers before dystopia is convinced it's the right thing to do. Boiling a frog you know.
Did we read the same book, or is this like a version for avoiding spoilers? Because John is young and it wasn't some judgement by Mustapha, but rather a conversation. And specifically the reservation was for Natives, not generally for people who decided they wanted to live there, which is a big part of a particular character's arc. General themes and Ideas are solidly explained but details of the book seem a little misrepresented.
As for me - "Brave New World" shows how close are the Dystopia and Utopia to one another. They both are about stability, the only difference is in a point of view. Actually, I see it very well in post-soviet countries, where people grieve for USSR. Forgetting the lack of freedom, low life and constant fear but remembering only Holy Stability.
For alot of people in the former USSR life was better before the collapse. Living standards were higher and society had very low rate of things like crime. Political freedom was low but they're not free r now than they were then. Thier lives are just worse.
@@sielentbrat4005 USSR was different in different periods of time. At first, the idea worked really good. Then, Stalin came and WW2 happened, which sccared the economy permanently. People waiting 3 hours to buy bread was just a conclusion.
The scary thing for me when I first read this is that I thought the pro dystopia argument was better, more logical while also empathetic. When thinking about it philosophically I always think I’d choose the “savage” side but I still feel way too understanding of the other side to be comfortable. A sort of “yeah that makes sense” feeling that just rubs me the wrong way. And the concept of soma always hit me a bit hard because of some struggles I’ve had with substance abuse, I can see myself living like that and it always feels two ways: like it’s just not “right” , but it never feels completely wrong either, it’s not some abomination of a self image, it’s just a path of least resistance (a concept which has nothing wrong with it in itself but in this context can sound like an evil of lesser degree, but I meant it as simply another way). I still can never pick a side by the end, I like a good bit of sinning, and a good fight and a competition and emotional outburst at beauty, and love is pretty sweet but I can still always see myself living like that and being satisfied. Great Book plays melancholy on my heartstrings in beautiful melodies
It’s sort of like how being on social media for several hours feels compared to doing a hobby for several hours. social media is easy. It’s easy to keep on scrolling and not feel anything. But passion requires some amount of suffering and some amount of work otherwise it’s not a passion. So really, what do you want to do with your life? do you want to feel that empty kind of happiness you get from scrolling TikTok, or do you want to put in some effort and feel passion?
Nope, that's a quote from Padme Amidala at the Galactic Senate Meeting when Palpatine declared the dissolution of corrupt Republic and reorganized into totalitarian Galactic Empire where he pointed as the Emperor of the Galaxy
One of the best descriptions I've heard was, "1984 teaches us to be aware of the things we hate and how they can destroy us. Brave New World teaches us to be aware of the things we love and how they can destroy us - with our own consent." Of course, as our newest history shows, writing 1984 off as being "no longer relevant" is a huge misconception. People are prone to fear, and many people who are afraid are prone to trade all the freedoms they have for imaginary security. Tyranny is not as extinct as some would like to think. Educating yourself and learning to be a better human is the only known counteraction, but it's painfully slow. Brave New World, on the other hand, achieves total happiness... by downgrading humans and their desires to what a society can provide. Instead of managing supply it manages demand, making defective humans who are totally happy and unable to understand the horror of their existence because they are purposely made defective. Once again, education and improvement of human nature can help manage both supply and demand, but it's - yep, painfully slow.
@@dane1382 I've read both your comparing apples to oranges both are depictions of a dystopian future but they are not the same And they do not have the same ending
Here's hoping to see an episode on Fahrenheit 451, I've always loved that one the most for how it portrays society itself as being it's own issue, rather than it being left to higher government. Also, the art for the Savage doesn't seem to match up very well with the descriptions given in the book, and the conversation with the World Controller being framed as a official trial doesn't really add up, as they were just in his office. It just felt a little odd is all.
I wrote a paper in college on how much one could infer about an individual's personality based on who they considered the most heroic character in Brave New World. I need to dig that out of my closet.
The best thing about brave New world is that isn't actually a dystopia but a utopia. The system works, the people are happy, and theres even a place for those who don't want to be apart of it. The only people that see it as wrong are those outside of it.
And even then they are aware there are issues. Mond basically says “yeah it’s bad, this is the best we tried, can you do better?” Even all the ways in which the system limits people’s freedoms or options are kinda things they don’t value in the first place? I value them, but they don’t, so are they really being deprived of them? They just don’t want it. The cruelest thing I could think of is making a set path for people and pre deciding their job, personality, and psychology. But we too kinda aspire to do that with children all the time? Even when we want them to think for themselves and be individual, we literally position and nudge them into that desirable personality. Our most rebellious characters just got exiled to a place where they can be themselves and only the savage suffers (in a very self inflicted, shame fueled, why can’t my life be like Othelo way). I might just not have enough experience to have enough appreciation for high art or dramatic passions or deeper things in life tough
@@yucol5661 no, I think your judgement is perfectly rational. People are just generally appalled by different world views and instincively defend their own views as the best ones.
My life is totally defined as: "before Brave New World and after Brave New World". Glad that you talk about one of my favorite books, even if your view on those characters sound very weird
Then you should really read Brave New World Revisited (1958) if you haven't already, it's an essay, but it can still change your life in the same way BNW did!
Dying swans twisted wings, beauty not needed here Lost my love, lost my life, in this garden of fear I have seen many things, in a lifetime alone Mother love is no more, bring this savage back home
Wilderness, house of pain Makes no sense of it all Close this mind, dull this brain Messiah before his fall What you see, it's not real Those who know will not tell All is lost, sold your souls to this brave new world
If there's one thing I'll criticise about the video, is that the Indian Reservation is also presented incredibly negatively (rather than the quaint farmer-town you presented). Disease, poverty, superstition, suffering in general. In fact, John (the native guy mentioned in the video) got stuck between insanity (The World State) and lunacy (The Indian Reservation). Otherwise thanks for covering my favourite Dystopian novel of all time!
Please, for the love of Big Brother and Mustafa, can you cover Brave New World Revisited? It's an essay, and a criminally underrated one. It also has Huxley discussing 1984 seriously which is a good plus and a good point of analysis between both books, something that you'll probably like after posting videos about both books
“I would have lived in peace, but my enemies brought me war.” Want a modern dystopia for today? Read the Red Rising series. One of the best series currently occurring.
Were you a little surprised when the fourth one of those came out? And with the direction it seems to be taking Darrow (ie towards the villainous)? Because I certainly was.
Brave New World is practically our current world. Instead of a worldstate we have tech giants and a global corporate conglomerate, instead of soma we have anti-depressants, instead of savage reserves we have the Amish and small communes, instead of lack of high art we have social media/consumer culture, instead castes and assigning professions you are manipulated through education and advertising. Meaningful living isn't impossible in the modern world, and the real life parallels I made aren't strictly negative either. However, I feel that you have to mostly go against the current zeitgeist to achieve something resembling happiness.
This world is becoming a dystopia via the s3 plan Selection for societal sanity Hideo kojima you mad genius you tried to warn us What fools we were Long live the sons of liberty
Brave New World is one of my favorite books. It's actually THE book that got me reading for fun. I had to read it in high school and loved it. It opened up a Brave New World of fiction.
1984 is the worst future for Socialism. The idea that people belong to the state, the totalitarian control of information and emotion, the moralistic demand for social conformity, all the worst traits evident throughout socialism brought to their extremes.
I’ve recently read BNW and the book doesn’t really offer a definitive answer for which argument is better, the Ford government does provide all physical needs for the human body and mind but nothing for the soul where as the old ways often fail to provide those but provide the variety that feeds the soul. Both are valid but it depends on what you think is more important. Also the book had a super depressing ending and the video unfortunately doesn’t discuss how everyone’s in groups of identical twins and the extent of the racism/classism that exists in that world.
I've read bnw this year for my high school English class, it's honestly one of my favorite books to read and i bought my own book to read it again over the summer. So EC didn't spoil much of the story and i recommend you guys to read it yourself if you like these times of books. Orgy porgy
I made that connection too. It's cool how some games grab inspiration from books that kids nowadays would only come across if a school project demanded they read it. Imagine how much better you might have understood the concepts behind "To Kill a Mocking Bird" if it was in the frame of a video game.
On the subject of "the third path," the Aldous Huxley, Brave New World's author, looked back some years after he'd written the book, and included a forward to the edition that I read back in high school that I thought provided some interesting insights into the work. In his later life, he recognized that he'd only provided his readers with two options - "insanity and lunacy," I believe were his words - and if he'd had it all to write again, he'd have provided a third option, a middle ground where some sort of compromise might be possible, and suicide wouldn't seem like the only reasonable alternative.
Using a Rapture image while saying "forcing all of us" is sooooooo much stupid. Andrew Ryan didn't force anybody to be in Rapture nor he forced anyone outside of Rapture to live by Rapture's rules. He offered people an option and people choose to be in Rapture, free of limitations.
@@arhr2713true he shut down the bathysphere stations before Jack arrived that’s why you need the genetic keys to continue making your way through rapture
"It has come to my attention that some have lately called me a collaborator, as if such a term were shameful. I ask you, what greater endeavor exists than that of collaboration? In our current unparalleled enterprise, refusal to collaborate is simply a refusal to grow--an insistence on suicide, if you will. "
I always liked HG Wells 'The Time Machine' as a dystopia, as I thought of it trying to represent a post-colonial empire having to deal with the reality of having relied on/exploited their colonies to get where they are now while still trying to ignore that dependency and how it centrally defines their current relationships. The power has to flow back, and HG Wells was not shy about showing that imagery.
I don't think the artist is familiar with with the book. John the Savage is a young man in his twenties, not the bald graybeard in the video, and the Indian reservation was nothing at all like a little Amish farm. Hell, I don't think the narrator is really familiar with the book either. Bernard Marx went to the reservation, but not Helmholtz like the video says.
Funny you brought up hormones. My friends were on birth control at the time we saw this movie and the soma use was very similar to what they were doing
Yes! Yay for dystopian fiction! (That’s an oxymoronic statement I know). I’ve been reading Fahrenheit 451 and 1984 and they’ve been an incredibly insightful reads for me. It certainly has made me more aware of my world (and has kind of made me a lot more anxious about the government. Not Tin foil hat levels of paranoia but definitely concern)
To be quite honest, as much as the idea repelled me as a teenager, when I first read BNW, if today a goverment would come along placing me in a job I'd love doing just because I was genetically engeneered to do it and offer me drugs in case I still felt depressed somehow, I'd say "where the heck Do I sign?"
6:55 "and trying to impose that vision on all of us" Remember the reservations from the beginning? Also you forgot to mention the colony effort involving just "alphas", that was aborted by its participants. That society doesn't force itself on others.
Nope, same word different origin. SOMA (the game) is from the Greek for ‘body’ hence why SOMA is called what it is. The Soma in BNW is most likely referencing the Vedic Hindu medicinal preparation and it’s namesake the deity Soma. The preparation was thought to contain a combination of opium, cannabis and psychoactive ingredients to induce euphoria, just like the book. It is also known as a means to gain immortality and enlightenment, which is hilariously ironic. The deity Soma is the Hindu Representation of the Moon. The symbolism here is quite important as the moon is a bright light illuminating the dark, just like a lighthouse does for the sea (don’t want to spoil anything but that’s SUPER important) and John (BNW’s main character) does for humanity.
Huxley and his contemporaries: create dystopias with actual reasons for existing and actual compelling dynamics between what is and what used to be, thus giving their dystopias a sense of life and color. Modern-day movie producers and video game developers: creates dystopias for no good reason that are dull, lifeless, and often the same muted shades of ugly browns and grays. Is it just me, or is nuance dying?
Ok so that question of "emotion" v "stability" ending with the possibility of a third way makes me think you need to eventually address the possibility of a free utopia that doesn't make the naive assumptions of earlier sci-fi. For an exploration of that possibility I suggest The Culture series of novels.
The third way probably would be a union of emotion and stability, not something beyond that two things. There is some people that say that aldous huxley made a perfect world in his book “Island” that show the ideal society for him, but I didn’t read the book.
Ok few corrections on ecenomics and robots: 1 Just because robots are taking unessecary jobs doesnt mean most people suddenly becomes poor. 2 In America most people were farmers now 1.2% of americans are farmers does this mean everyone suddenly lost jobs? 3 When jobs become more specific people make new important jobs and the amount of wealthy people expands. Thank you for listening! 3
George Orwell next !!! 1984 is great but i still prefer somehow Animal farm...don't know why... I hope Philip K.Dick get his own episode with his uchronia dystopia like in The Man in the High castle...what if story are hard to build and his distopia are pretty insane ! Also a backstory on his mental illness would be nice ! :)
Just remember that Orwell was a socialist and was just anti authoritarian not anti socialist, in fact in 1984 he specifically says "if there's any hope of change, it lies with the proles"
"We've taken care of everything The words you hear, the songs you sing The pictures that give pleasure to your eyes It's one for all, all for one We work together, common sons Never need to wonder how or why... Yes, we know It’s nothing new It’s just a waste of time We have no need for ancient ways Our world is doing fine Another toy That helped destroy The elder race of man Forget about your silly whim It doesn’t fit the plan" 2112 Part II. Temples of Syrinx - Rush
For me the most disturbing part was the morality around sexuality and the cheapness of it with porn and all that crap I worry that we are slowly moving towards some of morals that characters in brave new world have which I find scary
Imperator Odaenathus I’ve seen a very similar and slightly more eloquent (read less wordy) attributed to Jefferson. I believe it’s on his monument. 🤷♂️
@@macmurfy2jka I wasn't able to find it on Google, only the paraphrased version that says "Those who give up liberty for security deserve neither". Actually, though, the real quote sounds so ineloquent because it was actually originally talking about a tax dispute during the 7 years war.
You think? I'd say the only thing BNW and WHF have in common is the use of drugs. And even that is different: in WHF, Joy is the only thing keeping society from falling into total shambles, by making people oblivious to their squalid life conditions. The society of BNW is a well-oiled machine, and people's lives are comfortable enough even without the drug.
I love this analysis of Brave New World but I feel like episode really glossed over the book's depiction of racism and oppression as necessary components of the social order.
Because while the whole Alpha and delta thing seems like some big part of the book it’s really just a way to explain how a utopia where equality exist is impossible literally with the emotion vs stability argument and the meaning of life to be a the bigger theme
Ah, the book that I've read had both "We" and "Brave new world" in it. Introduction chapter was also about how are they connected. Good stuff. And Huxley is great human being overall.
"To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruellest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be re‐learned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods. "
Solid book. I like the use of relativity and time dilation. Also a really cool take on cloning and warfare. I found finger lasers kinda lame though, the suits in Starship troopers sounded way cooler.
3:28 This wouldn't have been a influence for the game we Happy Few would it?Also it sounds like in either choice the price is steep. You are either living in freedom and truth, living with the drama and reality of life but deal with instability, crime, corruption, and all the drawbacks to society that we are familiar with. The choice of a Dyatopia (hope I spelled it right.) sounds like you are granted all these great things, all these advances and so much of your troubles are lifted from your shoulders yet....is your life valued in any way except as a gear in a machine? Feeling depressed, anxiety, or emotions that are troublesome you pop a pill and they simply go away. To act different or to act not as your told to gets you exiled or simply permitted to live in a settlement that holds the woes of the old world. It all sounds grand to some, but is the price of your humanity, you as a individual, the price of knowing what love and true joy and happiness, and what it is like to truly be "alive" worth sacrificing for a society like that even if it grants you so much in exchange?
It's a long time since I read the book but I always envisaged the savage as a Bronze Age level primitive, probably North American Indian, but unusually literate. I also thought the dystopia would be inevitably terminal. Eventually, a major, wide ranging crisis would happen and even the leaders would be too emotionally immature to push the harsh policies needed in response, so civilisation would collapse completely with far too few able to cope with the existential crisis and survive and recover.
That end part is one of the reasons I don't necessarily think that Brave New World is a dystopia (though I agree that it was intended to be). It is the fundamental question "can you be fake happy?". We all want to be happy, but the savage's argument is that they aren't really happy, they just think they are happy. But is that even a possibility, can we just think we are happy and not really be happy? Almost every form of "fake happiness" today can be shown to break down and lead to overall unhappiness (i.e. drugs). But BNW specifically shows a world in which that doesn't happen, society doesn't fall apart because everyone is a hedonist. That is the real reason why it's so enduring. It is one of the few dystopian novels not afraid to look the dystopia in the face and say "maybe they aren't actually wrong".
How can people see BNW's society and think it isn't all bad just because the people are drugged and conditioned from birth to be "happy"? Would you think that a world where people are bred and treated like dogs by a higher species would be alright as long as people were always "happy" due to drugs and their engineered pet genes?
Most of these horrible realties begin with someone trying to control other people trying to say they know the best life. Often it’s a standard life for everyone. Much like this awful reality described right here. But I’d rather die knowing I’d made mistakes and did my best. I’ve left a good family and life to move forward without me.
3:23 Oh so its like joy from We happy few where they suppress terrible memories and bad emotions and everybody takes them. If they dont they are either forced to or are killed
Dystopian literature really began when the two World Wars, the Great Depression, and more socio-political unrest in the world began to disrupt the utopian aspirations of science fiction at the time. So enters Brave New World.
Hola there
Extra Credits 2 hours ?
How about utopian scifi or peaceful civilations, I feel like nobody are talking about this concept.
Make a special on Soviet Sci fi... Its amazing, It changed my view of Sci fi... People need to know more about It
This series leaves me with a great deal more to read, but I also wondered if you also have any recent (relatively speaking) works that would be of note? Of course time has not passed far enough for classics to be born, but I’d love your opinion on the matter.
I absolutely love BNW, and one of my favorite parts are what you emphasized here: it's the rare dystopian novel where the totalitarian government isn't evil just for the sake of being evil, or because of greed or whatnot. The government in BNW believes that it's doing right, that they have created a utopia, and the villains are allowed to state their case without the author creating an obviously wrong strawman. This world came to be because of basically good people working with the best of intentions to make it so. It makes us question any utopic vision that we're presented with: would this perfect world really be as perfect as we dream of? What would we have to give up to achieve it, and are those sacrifices worth it?
I don’t think that the rulers was working for the best intentions , neither Aldous Huxley. In the BNW that I have, Huxley in the prefacio says that the dictators will have the task to make people love their freedom. It’s not very much good intention.
not to mention, they also let people live in the traditional way, so, are they really oppressive?
No, and no
Uh, 1984 is literally the same.
They ruled with an iron fist thinking it was the best for society.
@@humbughumbughumbugnot really. They specifically mentioned in 1984 that they don't care about the people, they only care about the ruling elite
"Happiness is never grand." That hit pretty hard...
that is why our favorite fiction is about the road to happiness, not happiness itself.
Nobody ever read a novel, browsed a comic book, or watched a TV show about a perfect & peaceful world of plenty and came away entertained. Even Star Trek needed Klingons.
Except for a while after the 50's. After WW2, those folks just wanted to think everything was cool, like The Fonz, and live in Mayberry next to The Cleavers.
The lesson? Utopia seems like a pretty good deal after battling the horrors of Dystopia.
i'll change that line to "happiness is never granted"
better and more real
@@jatziberoja04 Yeah, that resonates better
@@jatziberoja04 Your line completely misses the original line's point, and is about something entirely different.
"You fight for the right to be miserable."
- Mustafa Mond, Regional World Controller.
war is peace love is hate
I never imagined Mond's arguments as this slightly aggressive tone - I imagined a sort of geniality. He more or less knows and agrees, but has made a choice based on rational judgement. The Savage never really gives good arguments, he just expresses his emotions and lets them stand in for arguments.
I don’t think, the savage gives yes some arguments. However, I think that the author don’t put many arguments for him to our thinking for ourselves.
@@Nycolas9929 so what arguments did you come up with?
I personally have to admit that I'd prefer to live in the BNW, assuming, I was conditioned and not an outsider visiting
Yeah I’ve never imagine momd being rude.
BNW shows us a world kept under control through comfort. 1984 shows us a world kept under control through hate. Modern day has both of these in high amounts.
But none of it is truly as totalitarian as those novels. Yet. The missing puzzle piece is only sufficient technology, sadly.
Kinda proves we can't let one style take complete control.
War is Peace.
Freedom is Slavery.
Ignorance is Strength.
Identity, Community, and Stability.
If there is one redeeming feature of a dystopia, its the slogans.
@@capeewee what about the teliscreens that's my favorite right behind the ideologies neo bulshivisn otherwise known as Nazbul gang and the dumbest one of all DEATH WORSHIPERS you know people who like to ship dead people like Julia.
And Fahrenheit 451 shows is a world kept under control through ignorance.
“How would a modern society ever actually become a dystopia?”
*glances at camera*
*in God we trust*
*in goverment we must*
@@necro-retro915 we live in a society
-the jonker
The real question is: how would a modern society not eventually become a dystopia?
It's called government inaction.
@@Rofl890 Because life centuries and millenia ago was better than today, isn't it?
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"
That was one of the favourite quotes of Aldous Huxley, and mine :D
Not actually true: the road to Hell is paved with frozen door-to-door salesmen. In winter, many of the younger devils like to go ice skating on it
And the ones you love litter the roadside
The road to heaven is paved with bad intentions
If this is true,then the US is building a highway system,full of parkings and Mc.Donalds.
I loved Brave New World so much more than 1984. I thought that bright and shiny BNW had so much more potential to actually happen than bleak and dark 1984.
Yeah, but, SURPRISE ... it's both.
*cough* patriot act *cough*
Brave new world works better because people are "happy" and therefore don't feel the need to be against the system. Most totalitarian states have failed because people are against it
Sorry for my bad english
Aldous addresses this very same thing in Brave New World Revisited (1958) and argues for your case, if I recall correctly it isn't far from the beginning of the essay, so you should find it easiily
I'd say 1984 is just as likely, it's just going to come after the BNW stage, where the generation that remembers before dystopia is convinced it's the right thing to do. Boiling a frog you know.
Make a special episode for Soviet Sci Fi, its a staple on the genre.
Roadside Picnic for the win
Solaris also for the win!
Alexei Tolstoi for the Win! He was a relative of Leon Tolstoy and that blowed my mind. Crazy coincidence.
Strugatskiye Brothers deserve a whole cycle of their own, especially the Hard to be a God novel
We want Soviets!!!!!!!
Did we read the same book, or is this like a version for avoiding spoilers? Because John is young and it wasn't some judgement by Mustapha, but rather a conversation. And specifically the reservation was for Natives, not generally for people who decided they wanted to live there, which is a big part of a particular character's arc. General themes and Ideas are solidly explained but details of the book seem a little misrepresented.
In America is not rare to censure this kind of books.
I truly think its to avoid spoilers
As for me - "Brave New World" shows how close are the Dystopia and Utopia to one another. They both are about stability, the only difference is in a point of view.
Actually, I see it very well in post-soviet countries, where people grieve for USSR. Forgetting the lack of freedom, low life and constant fear but remembering only Holy Stability.
For alot of people in the former USSR life was better before the collapse. Living standards were higher and society had very low rate of things like crime. Political freedom was low but they're not free r now than they were then. Thier lives are just worse.
Yeah... Standing in line for 3 hours to buy toilet paper. Very high life standards...
@@sielentbrat4005 USSR was different in different periods of time. At first, the idea worked really good. Then, Stalin came and WW2 happened, which sccared the economy permanently. People waiting 3 hours to buy bread was just a conclusion.
@@sielentbrat4005spending ur life for a car n not even half a house is better then ? being content and able to, in a single day, is not so bad...
Thank Ford this was uploaded the day before my AP Literature exam.
Celestia blessed you with luck and knowledge.
@@ponyempiresunite9702 ah, The religous order of bronies
DIPPER! My face is on fire! Come in here quick!
@@LegoCookieDoggie Ah, I see that you are a man of cultue as well. I'm sorry, it's a reflex.
Same here!
The scary thing for me when I first read this is that I thought the pro dystopia argument was better, more logical while also empathetic. When thinking about it philosophically I always think I’d choose the “savage” side but I still feel way too understanding of the other side to be comfortable. A sort of “yeah that makes sense” feeling that just rubs me the wrong way. And the concept of soma always hit me a bit hard because of some struggles I’ve had with substance abuse, I can see myself living like that and it always feels two ways: like it’s just not “right” , but it never feels completely wrong either, it’s not some abomination of a self image, it’s just a path of least resistance (a concept which has nothing wrong with it in itself but in this context can sound like an evil of lesser degree, but I meant it as simply another way). I still can never pick a side by the end, I like a good bit of sinning, and a good fight and a competition and emotional outburst at beauty, and love is pretty sweet but I can still always see myself living like that and being satisfied. Great Book plays melancholy on my heartstrings in beautiful melodies
It’s sort of like how being on social media for several hours feels compared to doing a hobby for several hours. social media is easy. It’s easy to keep on scrolling and not feel anything. But passion requires some amount of suffering and some amount of work otherwise it’s not a passion. So really, what do you want to do with your life? do you want to feel that empty kind of happiness you get from scrolling TikTok, or do you want to put in some effort and feel passion?
your food air and water it's healthy can't say more
"So this is the way liberty dies... with thunderous applause."
One of the few good lines in Revenge of the Sith.
Wasn't that in the Phantom Menace?
Nope, that's a quote from Padme Amidala at the Galactic Senate Meeting when Palpatine declared the dissolution of corrupt Republic and reorganized into totalitarian Galactic Empire where he pointed as the Emperor of the Galaxy
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.
(The Hollow Men
TS Eliot)
The best one is from Phantom:
Jar-Jar "I spake."
Qui-Gon "The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
@@khyronthethunderhawg6577 That's a pretty good one, ngl 😄
Ah so we're covering the stuff that was fiction then but real in 2019.
- nervous laughter -
Don't worry we will be in mad max in no time.
China sure is trying to become 1984, ever heard of sesame credit? A way to game-ify life to weed out those that have different opinions.
@@bencox3641 We're already at that decadent but crumbling Neo Tokyo stage from Akira
@@harrisonlee9585 What?
@@harrisonlee9585
We are?
I don't recall hearing about any mutated teen uber-psyichs looking to blow anything up? recently...
One of the best descriptions I've heard was,
"1984 teaches us to be aware of the things we hate and how they can destroy us. Brave New World teaches us to be aware of the things we love and how they can destroy us - with our own consent."
Of course, as our newest history shows, writing 1984 off as being "no longer relevant" is a huge misconception. People are prone to fear, and many people who are afraid are prone to trade all the freedoms they have for imaginary security.
Tyranny is not as extinct as some would like to think. Educating yourself and learning to be a better human is the only known counteraction, but it's painfully slow.
Brave New World, on the other hand, achieves total happiness... by downgrading humans and their desires to what a society can provide. Instead of managing supply it manages demand, making defective humans who are totally happy and unable to understand the horror of their existence because they are purposely made defective. Once again, education and improvement of human nature can help manage both supply and demand, but it's - yep, painfully slow.
BNW=Modern USA and Western Europe in a nutshell
1984=Modern China, Russia and North Korea in a nutshell
Nah, the US is somewhere between BNW and 1984
Europe is more like 1984 imo
1984 is nothing close to China or Russia. Sure maybe North Korea
@@thesenate6482 ehhh a little bit china. a LITTLE bit.
@@MetalMailman35 Do you even live in Europe?
I honestly never felt BNW to be dystopia, it's more of a flawed utopia.
It's a critique of "Utopia".
Nirvana is not of this world. We are inherently flawed and that is beautiful.
Yeah kind of along the same lines of The giver
@@spartanx9293 the giver is like
"Mom, I want Brave New World."
"We have Brave New World at home."
Brave New World at home:
@@dane1382 I've read both your comparing apples to oranges both are depictions of a dystopian future but they are not the same
And they do not have the same ending
"Flawed Utopia" that's like a straight newspeak term.
Here's hoping to see an episode on Fahrenheit 451, I've always loved that one the most for how it portrays society itself as being it's own issue, rather than it being left to higher government.
Also, the art for the Savage doesn't seem to match up very well with the descriptions given in the book, and the conversation with the World Controller being framed as a official trial doesn't really add up, as they were just in his office. It just felt a little odd is all.
3:13
GODDANGIT WALPOLE
England just isint enough for you anymore, Now all of humanity has to serve as well.
Oooh do I sense that we may see some androids soon, androids that might be dreaming about sheep, electric sheep!?
It seems androids are mainly dreaming UA-cam comments
On the way to electric sheep. Was blade runner actually about climate change after all?
I wrote a paper in college on how much one could infer about an individual's personality based on who they considered the most heroic character in Brave New World. I need to dig that out of my closet.
that sounds like an interesting read
If you ever do I'm interested
I’d really like to read that! Please do!
Well? We're waiting.
@@peasant8246 Still waiting.
I'm so glad you mentioned _We_ - Zamyatin is terribly underrated.
It is great in the beginning, but then it transforms into unfortunate love story. Sadly, the man couldn't make it a novella instead of novel.
I hope to read it very soon. No irony that it was the first book to be censored by the Soviet government.
I read that book. It’s basically a forerunner to 1984!
The best thing about brave New world is that isn't actually a dystopia but a utopia.
The system works, the people are happy, and theres even a place for those who don't want to be apart of it. The only people that see it as wrong are those outside of it.
And even then they are aware there are issues. Mond basically says “yeah it’s bad, this is the best we tried, can you do better?”
Even all the ways in which the system limits people’s freedoms or options are kinda things they don’t value in the first place? I value them, but they don’t, so are they really being deprived of them? They just don’t want it. The cruelest thing I could think of is making a set path for people and pre deciding their job, personality, and psychology. But we too kinda aspire to do that with children all the time? Even when we want them to think for themselves and be individual, we literally position and nudge them into that desirable personality.
Our most rebellious characters just got exiled to a place where they can be themselves and only the savage suffers (in a very self inflicted, shame fueled, why can’t my life be like Othelo way).
I might just not have enough experience to have enough appreciation for high art or dramatic passions or deeper things in life tough
@@yucol5661 no, I think your judgement is perfectly rational.
People are just generally appalled by different world views and instincively defend their own views as the best ones.
My life is totally defined as: "before Brave New World and after Brave New World". Glad that you talk about one of my favorite books, even if your view on those characters sound very weird
Then you should really read Brave New World Revisited (1958) if you haven't already, it's an essay, but it can still change your life in the same way BNW did!
Dying swans twisted wings, beauty not needed here
Lost my love, lost my life, in this garden of fear
I have seen many things, in a lifetime alone
Mother love is no more, bring this savage back home
Wilderness, house of pain
Makes no sense of it all
Close this mind, dull this brain
Messiah before his fall
What you see, it's not real
Those who know will not tell
All is lost, sold your souls
to this brave new world
Ah, I see you're a man of taste as well.
Twisted fools bathed in crimson red.
A scarlet flame that burns til the end.
Dream no more for you shall die.
By the bidding of the twist eye.
Twisted fools bathed in crimson red.
A scarlet flame that burns til the end.
Dream no more for you shall die.
By the bidding of the twist eye.
@@someguy8233 ? Call me curious but where is that from?
Super excited for this new series!
Are you using "series" in the British sense?
Have you noticed who the lead is?
If there's one thing I'll criticise about the video, is that the Indian Reservation is also presented incredibly negatively (rather than the quaint farmer-town you presented). Disease, poverty, superstition, suffering in general. In fact, John (the native guy mentioned in the video) got stuck between insanity (The World State) and lunacy (The Indian Reservation).
Otherwise thanks for covering my favourite Dystopian novel of all time!
I mean it’s not like they were practicing cannibalism…
You will own nothing and be happy.
You forgot the orgies in Brave New World ;-P
Please, for the love of Big Brother and Mustafa, can you cover Brave New World Revisited? It's an essay, and a criminally underrated one. It also has Huxley discussing 1984 seriously which is a good plus and a good point of analysis between both books, something that you'll probably like after posting videos about both books
“I would have lived in peace, but my enemies brought me war.”
Want a modern dystopia for today? Read the Red Rising series.
One of the best series currently occurring.
The most compelling modern dystopia is a window. Peer through it and watch the world collapse.
I absolutely loved the first book. In fact, I think it's time to reread. The later ones feel a bit heavy handed to me but were still quite enjoyable.
Were you a little surprised when the fourth one of those came out? And with the direction it seems to be taking Darrow (ie towards the villainous)?
Because I certainly was.
pyrosianheir
We’ll have to wait-and-see in Dark Age.
That quote could well be used by the native Americans
Will you guys cover “I have no mouth and I must scream”
That'd be a pleasant surprise for this. (More pleasant than Harlan Ellison, in any case.)
Marx doesn’t go to the Reservation with Helmholtz, but with Lenina.
Looks like I'll have to read Brave New World now.
Do it! I highly recommend it.
It's good, in my opinion better that 1984.
Damn,that Lenin looks amazing
Brave New World is practically our current world.
Instead of a worldstate we have tech giants and a global corporate conglomerate,
instead of soma we have anti-depressants,
instead of savage reserves we have the Amish and small communes,
instead of lack of high art we have social media/consumer culture,
instead castes and assigning professions you are manipulated through education and advertising.
Meaningful living isn't impossible in the modern world, and the real life parallels I made aren't strictly negative either. However, I feel that you have to mostly go against the current zeitgeist to achieve something resembling happiness.
This world is becoming a dystopia via the s3 plan
Selection for societal sanity
Hideo kojima you mad genius you tried to warn us
What fools we were
Long live the sons of liberty
It honestly makes me fear college
The great trick of modern society is that many fear that we are heading for a dystopia and try to prevent it but in truth, we are already in one.
Pfft. Damn straight with that one.
Play at 1.25 speed for the classic Extra Credits experience.
Brave New World is one of my favorite books. It's actually THE book that got me reading for fun. I had to read it in high school and loved it. It opened up a Brave New World of fiction.
For what I've heard,
1984 is the dystopia and worst possible future for a libertarian.
And Brave New World, is the same thing but for an autoritarian.
Are you saying 1984 would be hated by libertarians and authoritarians BRW? I've read both and that's not how I read them.
1984 is the worst future for Socialism. The idea that people belong to the state, the totalitarian control of information and emotion, the moralistic demand for social conformity, all the worst traits evident throughout socialism brought to their extremes.
I’ve recently read BNW and the book doesn’t really offer a definitive answer for which argument is better, the Ford government does provide all physical needs for the human body and mind but nothing for the soul where as the old ways often fail to provide those but provide the variety that feeds the soul. Both are valid but it depends on what you think is more important. Also the book had a super depressing ending and the video unfortunately doesn’t discuss how everyone’s in groups of identical twins and the extent of the racism/classism that exists in that world.
Why would an authoritarian hate BNW? Shouldn't they consider it a utopia?
@@Bushflare, except all of those things would apply just as readily to facism as socialism, so it would have little to do either political group.
I T W A S W A L P O L E
Was it?
Welcome to Walpolistan.
Where we serve our Walpoleship by working in the banks and money factories.
I've read bnw this year for my high school English class, it's honestly one of my favorite books to read and i bought my own book to read it again over the summer. So EC didn't spoil much of the story and i recommend you guys to read it yourself if you like these times of books.
Orgy porgy
Orgy porgy indeed.
I did not expect to see "We" by Zamyatin on this show, one of the few sci-fis I care about. Neat.
We just finished the giver and this really helped me understand some of the stuff
We Happy Few (the video game set in dystopian Britain) really pulls from Brave New World, especially with the Joy medicine
I made that connection too. It's cool how some games grab inspiration from books that kids nowadays would only come across if a school project demanded they read it. Imagine how much better you might have understood the concepts behind "To Kill a Mocking Bird" if it was in the frame of a video game.
Too bad Australia banned it.
in the game you get alienated if you don't use the drugs right, that's exactly what happens in Brave New Worl
@@janroodbol5055 yea i've played it but it's also like the books in that if you don't abstain you can't reason or feel or constructively criticize
@@janroodbol5055 although the game is way more violent than brave new world's setting
On the subject of "the third path," the Aldous Huxley, Brave New World's author, looked back some years after he'd written the book, and included a forward to the edition that I read back in high school that I thought provided some interesting insights into the work. In his later life, he recognized that he'd only provided his readers with two options - "insanity and lunacy," I believe were his words - and if he'd had it all to write again, he'd have provided a third option, a middle ground where some sort of compromise might be possible, and suicide wouldn't seem like the only reasonable alternative.
What about "Harrison Bergeron"?
Yea thats a very good one
Whoever it is on this team who keeps sneaking amazing Hot Fuzz references into these videos, I love you.
Using a Rapture image while saying "forcing all of us" is sooooooo much stupid. Andrew Ryan didn't force anybody to be in Rapture nor he forced anyone outside of Rapture to live by Rapture's rules. He offered people an option and people choose to be in Rapture, free of limitations.
True, but he did k*ll anyone trying to leave.
Ha I saw rapture and my mind went straight to bioshock and then I saw Andrew Ryan and I was like yeah
@@arhr2713true he shut down the bathysphere stations before Jack arrived that’s why you need the genetic keys to continue making your way through rapture
Sounds like the modern mainstream.
"The benefactor".
Huh.
Sounds familiar.
What does it remind you of?
Is it, perchance, a podcast?
No.
A video game, with an Orwellian vibe.
"It has come to my attention that some have lately called me a collaborator, as if such a term were shameful. I ask you, what greater endeavor exists than that of collaboration? In our current unparalleled enterprise, refusal to collaborate is simply a refusal to grow--an insistence on suicide, if you will. "
I always liked HG Wells 'The Time Machine' as a dystopia, as I thought of it trying to represent a post-colonial empire having to deal with the reality of having relied on/exploited their colonies to get where they are now while still trying to ignore that dependency and how it centrally defines their current relationships. The power has to flow back, and HG Wells was not shy about showing that imagery.
One of my absolute favorite science fiction novels. "A gram is better than damn."
"Ending is better than mending."
My favorite quote by Aldous Huxley: "Chastity-the most unnatural of all the sexual perversions"
0:03 I found sans lol
imagine if they also wore white opera masks
I don't think the artist is familiar with with the book. John the Savage is a young man in his twenties, not the bald graybeard in the video, and the Indian reservation was nothing at all like a little Amish farm. Hell, I don't think the narrator is really familiar with the book either. Bernard Marx went to the reservation, but not Helmholtz like the video says.
"WE" sounds like frostpunk.
Dude I just finished writing a 10 page research paper on Brave New World for my Senior English final.
I want hormones and to be able to look in the mirror
Trans gang?
Funny you brought up hormones. My friends were on birth control at the time we saw this movie and the soma use was very similar to what they were doing
@@MariaNicolae yes
Yes! Yay for dystopian fiction! (That’s an oxymoronic statement I know). I’ve been reading Fahrenheit 451 and 1984 and they’ve been an incredibly insightful reads for me. It certainly has made me more aware of my world (and has kind of made me a lot more anxious about the government. Not Tin foil hat levels of paranoia but definitely concern)
To be quite honest, as much as the idea repelled me as a teenager, when I first read BNW, if today a goverment would come along placing me in a job I'd love doing just because I was genetically engeneered to do it and offer me drugs in case I still felt depressed somehow, I'd say "where the heck Do I sign?"
In ancient times, men built wonders, laid claim to the stars and sought to better themselves for the good of all. But we are much wiser now.
Sorry we can't do those things because of some meaningless accounting numbers.
6:55 "and trying to impose that vision on all of us"
Remember the reservations from the beginning? Also you forgot to mention the colony effort involving just "alphas", that was aborted by its participants. That society doesn't force itself on others.
So that's where SOMA got it's name.
Also, that Walpole reference
Nope, same word different origin.
SOMA (the game) is from the Greek for ‘body’ hence why SOMA is called what it is.
The Soma in BNW is most likely referencing the Vedic Hindu medicinal preparation and it’s namesake the deity Soma.
The preparation was thought to contain a combination of opium, cannabis and psychoactive ingredients to induce euphoria, just like the book. It is also known as a means to gain immortality and enlightenment, which is hilariously ironic.
The deity Soma is the Hindu Representation of the Moon. The symbolism here is quite important as the moon is a bright light illuminating the dark, just like a lighthouse does for the sea (don’t want to spoil anything but that’s SUPER important) and John (BNW’s main character) does for humanity.
Huxley and his contemporaries: create dystopias with actual reasons for existing and actual compelling dynamics between what is and what used to be, thus giving their dystopias a sense of life and color.
Modern-day movie producers and video game developers: creates dystopias for no good reason that are dull, lifeless, and often the same muted shades of ugly browns and grays.
Is it just me, or is nuance dying?
1800s people: we are going to have flying cars
Now a day people: we have level50 weapons
Big brother is *Always* Watching.
me waving at cameras "HI (Insert Organizations Here) GUY!"
2+2=5
@@leemeyer9395 the correct answer is Fish
4:47 "flivvers" should rhyme with "givers", you young whippersnapper!
I am actually reading brave new world right now and find Hurley’s view and on the qualities of the dystopia philosophically interesting!
Ok so that question of "emotion" v "stability" ending with the possibility of a third way makes me think you need to eventually address the possibility of a free utopia that doesn't make the naive assumptions of earlier sci-fi. For an exploration of that possibility I suggest The Culture series of novels.
The third way probably would be a union of emotion and stability, not something beyond that two things. There is some people that say that aldous huxley made a perfect world in his book “Island” that show the ideal society for him, but I didn’t read the book.
Unfortunately by the very nature emotion opposes stability. As a third way I can only see some kind of carefully curated balance.
Ok few corrections on ecenomics and robots:
1 Just because robots are taking unessecary jobs doesnt mean most people suddenly becomes poor.
2 In America most people were farmers now 1.2% of americans are farmers does this mean everyone suddenly lost jobs?
3 When jobs become more specific people make new important jobs and the amount of wealthy people expands.
Thank you for listening!
3
Yooo! This hit me like a ton of bricks, and I've heard this story reviewed by thug notes before.
6:32 as someone recovering from depression, I would counter that happiness IS grand if YOU’RE the one who’s happy.
Ya'll should've talked about The Iron Heel by Jack London.
George Orwell next !!! 1984 is great but i still prefer somehow Animal farm...don't know why... I hope Philip K.Dick get his own episode with his uchronia dystopia like in The Man in the High castle...what if story are hard to build and his distopia are pretty insane ! Also a backstory on his mental illness would be nice ! :)
Just remember that Orwell was a socialist and was just anti authoritarian not anti socialist, in fact in 1984 he specifically says "if there's any hope of change, it lies with the proles"
This might well be my personal favourite Extra Sci-Fi episode 😊
"We've taken care of everything
The words you hear, the songs you sing
The pictures that give pleasure to your eyes
It's one for all, all for one
We work together, common sons
Never need to wonder how or why...
Yes, we know
It’s nothing new
It’s just a waste of time
We have no need for ancient ways
Our world is doing fine
Another toy
That helped destroy
The elder race of man
Forget about your silly whim
It doesn’t fit the plan"
2112 Part II. Temples of Syrinx - Rush
Now as far as Utopian sci-fi goes we're down to The Orville.
Society, destroyed because one person don't get laid, can't be utopian.
For me the most disturbing part was the morality around sexuality and the cheapness of it with porn and all that crap I worry that we are slowly moving towards some of morals that characters in brave new world have which I find scary
“Freedom for security “-(Ben Franklin or Thomas Jefferson)
It’s always been about trading freedom for security.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." was Ben Franklin
Imperator Odaenathus I’ve seen a very similar and slightly more eloquent (read less wordy) attributed to Jefferson. I believe it’s on his monument. 🤷♂️
@@macmurfy2jka I wasn't able to find it on Google, only the paraphrased version that says "Those who give up liberty for security deserve neither". Actually, though, the real quote sounds so ineloquent because it was actually originally talking about a tax dispute during the 7 years war.
@@macmurfy2jka If you're looking for a quote from the Jefferson Memorial: www.nps.gov/thje/learn/photosmultimedia/quotations.htm
You know the big irony about what USSR was becoming, when you realize that "We" from Zamyatin was their first censored book.
Book: Brave New World
Or for you Gamers, We Happy Few 💊 💊 💊
Persona 5
@@haruhisuzumiya6650 yo I can't believe I forgot about that
You think? I'd say the only thing BNW and WHF have in common is the use of drugs. And even that is different: in WHF, Joy is the only thing keeping society from falling into total shambles, by making people oblivious to their squalid life conditions. The society of BNW is a well-oiled machine, and people's lives are comfortable enough even without the drug.
Did you even read this? So much is left out.
Britain =/= England cmon guys. Also it looks like your map didnt have Wales.
Sincerely, a mildly Disgruntled Scot
They have terrible map checkers.
I love this analysis of Brave New World but I feel like episode really glossed over the book's depiction of racism and oppression as necessary components of the social order.
Because while the whole Alpha and delta thing seems like some big part of the book it’s really just a way to explain how a utopia where equality exist is impossible literally with the emotion vs stability argument and the meaning of life to be a the bigger theme
Ah, the book that I've read had both "We" and "Brave new world" in it. Introduction chapter was also about how are they connected. Good stuff. And Huxley is great human being overall.
"To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruellest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be re‐learned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods. "
Warhammer 40k.
Do you think you could ever talk about the forever war
Solid book. I like the use of relativity and time dilation. Also a really cool take on cloning and warfare. I found finger lasers kinda lame though, the suits in Starship troopers sounded way cooler.
3:28 This wouldn't have been a influence for the game we Happy Few would it?Also it sounds like in either choice the price is steep. You are either living in freedom and truth, living with the drama and reality of life but deal with instability, crime, corruption, and all the drawbacks to society that we are familiar with. The choice of a Dyatopia (hope I spelled it right.) sounds like you are granted all these great things, all these advances and so much of your troubles are lifted from your shoulders yet....is your life valued in any way except as a gear in a machine? Feeling depressed, anxiety, or emotions that are troublesome you pop a pill and they simply go away. To act different or to act not as your told to gets you exiled or simply permitted to live in a settlement that holds the woes of the old world. It all sounds grand to some, but is the price of your humanity, you as a individual, the price of knowing what love and true joy and happiness, and what it is like to truly be "alive" worth sacrificing for a society like that even if it grants you so much in exchange?
33 dislikes need some Soma.
It's a long time since I read the book but I always envisaged the savage as a Bronze Age level primitive, probably North American Indian, but unusually literate.
I also thought the dystopia would be inevitably terminal. Eventually, a major, wide ranging crisis would happen and even the leaders would be too emotionally immature to push the harsh policies needed in response, so civilisation would collapse completely with far too few able to cope with the existential crisis and survive and recover.
That end part is one of the reasons I don't necessarily think that Brave New World is a dystopia (though I agree that it was intended to be). It is the fundamental question "can you be fake happy?". We all want to be happy, but the savage's argument is that they aren't really happy, they just think they are happy. But is that even a possibility, can we just think we are happy and not really be happy?
Almost every form of "fake happiness" today can be shown to break down and lead to overall unhappiness (i.e. drugs). But BNW specifically shows a world in which that doesn't happen, society doesn't fall apart because everyone is a hedonist.
That is the real reason why it's so enduring. It is one of the few dystopian novels not afraid to look the dystopia in the face and say "maybe they aren't actually wrong".
The Savage himself isn't really happy, especially with what he does in the end.
How can people see BNW's society and think it isn't all bad just because the people are drugged and conditioned from birth to be "happy"? Would you think that a world where people are bred and treated like dogs by a higher species would be alright as long as people were always "happy" due to drugs and their engineered pet genes?
Most of these horrible realties begin with someone trying to control other people trying to say they know the best life. Often it’s a standard life for everyone. Much like this awful reality described right here. But I’d rather die knowing I’d made mistakes and did my best. I’ve left a good family and life to move forward without me.
Just tell Kim those are novels, not manuals
Can I uh, get some soma please?
3:23 Oh so its like joy from We happy few where they suppress terrible memories and bad emotions and everybody takes them. If they dont they are either forced to or are killed
I also saw it like that