It is so crazy that u seem to be the only one that shares this opinion with me. Here at Tampa hard rock we have a good 2/5 I have played for about 3 1/2 years and was forced to drop stakes and it makes u a worse player not to mention u are always going 5 ways to flop and so many OMC’s that won’t put a dollar in without top 10% of hands. I thought I was crazy cause I have hard time making money on 1/2 when I did well at 2/5 for couple years.
The old *sigh* ”Im all in” just SCREAMS nuts. I think this was brushed over too quickly in the call. In a vacuum this might not be the correct fold but there were so many clues this villain had the boat. WP caller
I thought same... unless he's a thinking player to the extent it's a fake sigh tell he's showing. I do that sometimes on polarized river bets, even at my 1/2 stakes. It works w other thinking players but can backfire if overcredit given to an ABC opponent! 😅
@@330miggsExactly. That'd be an outlier exception. Sigh call is a highly reliable tell in general. Esp in our low stakes. It's kind of astonishing when better than average players still let it slip or use it purposely as if they just saw Rounders gushing over Johnny Chan for the first time yesterday. 😆
The line the villain took was extremely strong. 3-bet, check call, check call, then lead with half his stack screams “Boat!”, especially with the Hollywooding before the river bet. I would have done a crying call, knowing he had a boat.
It is such a fishy line honestly. Fish never commit to the bluff-catch and are always afraid of losing value in the river, even though hero can have a bajillion missed draws to bet the river with.
Absolutely not true at all. Sets should be playing far more aggressively on the flop and turn. The fact is that the villain Hollywooding lost him a lot of value, because this line with a set is so passive and ludicrous.
Nah I agree I’ve played a decent amount of 1/3 and if someone does the whole tank sigh BS they have it. This fold doesn’t make logical sense but when you’re playing 1/3 you have to account for the illogical. Nobody tanks, sighs and bluffs lol
Agreed. It's the same in 1/2. If they tank for a bit then donk bet you know they're praying for a call. Watching this the whole time I was putting villain on 22. Lol
I was the new sub that asked Bart about jumping up to 2/5 and mentioned the 50/30/20 rules. Thanks for continuing to expound on this topic, I'm going to check out the recent podcast. I'm planning on playing 2/5 for the first time this Friday. I think this is a great time: holiday weekend. I will be buying in short $300, bringing just over 2 buy-ins with me.
In Tejas, Im making around 1k week playing 1/3. Now its uncapped buyin starting with a 1500, but has 75% match. The games here play huge. I could make more if I could improve on my leaks and stop being exploited. Thats why im on these channels.
This is 100% a fold. Check-call, check-call, donk large is always always always nutted. Add in the sigh before betting, I think this would be a horrendous call.
Good call on the Vanguard Federal money market fund. I have been keeping my cash there for a year and a half or so, since interest rates starting going up. Good rate, easy to use.
I think Bart is generally right about moving up in stakes but the math suggests it is much harder in 2024 than most people realize. There are way more pros at 2/5 than there used to be. You need to think about how much you need recreational players to be losing per hour in order for you and the other winning players at the table to make money. There is an actual answer to this question and it is a bigger number($/hr) than most people realize
Most of these pros, are us part time 'grinders' who put in 40 hours a month. Myself included ~60/hr winrate at 3/5 ~25k a year extra income for a hobby/passion. To be fair I make 150k a year in my normal job, so it really is for the competitive aspect. My particular casino has been spreading 2/3 for 20 years, if you account for inflation... 2/3 shouldn't even exist anymore. New '2/3' should be '2/5'. Literally 300 USD of 2004 dollars is 500 USD of 2024 dollars.
Those that grind low stakes and save money to move up is what he is trying to convey here about BRM. You have to be very financially savvy and have keen ability on the felt to move up. Yes, lots of pros grinding 2/5, but also lots making much bigger money in the 10/20 games. Then there are the rare few that play high stakes and do really well at it, finding those 25k profit sessions regularly. Me personally, I have started to save by purchasing certificates at my credit union, so that in 12 months once they start maturing, I have much more to buy-in with. Even if it doesn't last, I can at least say I played some high stakes poker.
@@PhonyBologna Yes. And all Vegas Poker rooms are about to raise rake as well. So everything is really out of wack. This is absolutely the context poker should be put in now. I was just sharing some perspective as many people still aspire to be full time live pros who pay their bills solely from poker and its almost not even really a thing anymore. You have to be an extremely rare breed to actually have the necessary qualities/life setup to pull this off. Less than 1% for sure
I’m not sure what do to because I see this. Every 1/3 table I sit at I’m normally the best player at the table or sometimes there’s someone I feel is as good as me or a most there is someone who I think is better and generally everyone else is playing face up against me. But when I sit at the 2/5 tables it’s like I feel like everyone is around my skill level and sometimes there’s one bad player at the table. 1/3 is so incredibly soft wherever I go; there’s such a discrepancy between 1/3 and 2/5 for me that I just play 1/3. I easily have the bankroll for 2/5 but can’t get this out of my head. What should I do. I’m going to Vegas soon and want to play 2/5 but 1/3 is so soft for me. Where is good to play 2/5 in Vegas. I have never played 2/5 in Vegas. Where I am 2/5 is extremely tight but 1/3 is insanely soft
Well, if you kill off the lower stakes games, then all the 'fish' will move up to higher stakes and then all will be swell again. Or they could just run 25c 50c games with 6 dollar rake :D
Fantastic. He tells Bart he would snap call any other player at the table with this hand. But the villain check check sigh, bet, is a great read from the hero. Small things like this will elevate your game. At these stakes anyways.
in low stakes games live(1/2 & 1/3) often the win rate is more than a 2/5 in the same venue. especially late at night......large bets with small blinds produce great results...often the result of the flowing alcohol.
I remember many many moons ago back in the day when I played 3/6 Limit Holdem- no way to beat the rake. I remember one game where we were playing with the same 9 players for a several hours and I couldn't help but notice that after a few hours everyone's stack was viably dwindled. I could literally see the money being sucked of the table.
If the same 9 players bought in for 100 dollars and no one added chips for hours.. You could litterally look around the table and see everyone is down or break even. I feel like if you really break down poker..most people wouldn't even play at all. The rakes are so big, and the skill gap is so minimal. Also, you can play perfect poker and lose every hand..so there is little to no room to be a winning player for average people without massive bank rolls.
Yep, those places are full of OMCs that aren't really playing poker, theyre having a social hour and swapping chips. If I don't see a player going all in at least once per hour, im racking up and leaving.
usable understandable poker logic. Either I just uped my skill level and am starting to understand analysis or this creator is a genius at poker analysis and teaching...either way I am liking and subscribing. Ty for the high quality, skill improving coaching. Nice. Peace
A small (2.5x) 3-bet at the low stakes is actually quite common. I've seen plenty of min 3-bets with AA because most low stakes players don't have a good grasp of bet sizes.
Large river bets in 1/3 are almost always a HUGE hand. These players almost never bluff because of their passive style. I would have folded too. Let's not forget about the Hollywooding sigh that he let out too. Fold fold fold! Tap the table and say nice hand and move on to the next one.
Love your content . I have learned so much just watching it over the last couple years really appreciate the deep insight into hand situations really let's you see and understand not only hands but how others are playing their hands and eliminating what people can actually have most of the time .
Thank you for the micro stakes advice. In this hand the hero is saying he made a great read, because his opponent was acting weak then looked really comfortable while he was tanking. Good read. But this is why I call. At micro stakes people do a lot of crazy things, getting 2 to 1 odds, and at the beginning of the break down the hero said the villain was aggressive, showing down 2nd pair. G.T.O. vs a live read. Tough choice.
I know he was right in this instance.....BUT, he 3! preflop, the frequency of the times he shows up with 88 is not enough to warrant a fold compared to all the other hands he could have.
I think in a vacuum I would agree. But I have to wonder how much such a tiny 3! and sighing then over pot better the river affects that decision lol. That sigh overpot bet alone would probably do it for me. Like, if it was a normal 3! to 4x in the BB and no sigh river over pot bet(or just wihttout the sigh) that would definitely have me calling. AKd would be a bluff on the river after X'ing the flop/turn from a solver aall day, in fact just watched an upswing poker video on the subject of blockers/unblockers that included that example, but that assumes people at 1/3 are doing solver work.
He basically min 3-bet, which I think gives him more middling pairs than a typical 3-bet. The part that made 88 less likely is slow playing on a very wet board. However, I think the caller was mostly going on live tells in this case. Hemming and hawing before a big bet is frequently the nuts.
I was thinking top set was the only value hand that would possibly check this flop. Especially at 1-3. People always want to get cute and trappy. Villain missed serious value by not just betting the flop.
It's pretty simple. The small 3bet pre-flop with a middling pocket pair is to build the pot in case you flop a set. The check on the flop is because he probably heard somewhere it's harder to get value when you have top set because your opponent has far fewer TPTK or Top two pair hands. He overbets the river to make it look like a busted flush draw in an attempt to get max value.
my first thought was to fold. It's 1/3 and most everyone plays face up and does not bluff - also the majority of ppl slow play. Proper play rivering a full house would be to check raise all in river but - again- this is 1/3 and most people play face up.
Only in live poker can you do this. The sigh, coupled with the tank prior to the sigh, is almost always the nuts. That is a huge factor in the hand, ultimately.
I love when players talk about their poker stakes as a budget expense line. It wouldn't be an expense line if they were a winning player. You are talking to a consistently losing player
Bart, would like your thoughts on this please. I regularly play in a 1/2 game with a $400 buy-in and it is match the stack. Every dealer change there is a $10 Bond pot. Typically as soon as someone wins a big pot everyone matches their stack. This means everyone ends up having 1,000 to $2,000 on the table. The openings are always for $20 plus and you still get callers. I do great at this game and really don't see the need to move up to the next highest game in the poker room where I do believe the players are better. What do you think?
It's all a giant conspiracy by people like Bart and other poker coaches/ training sites.... they're goal is to turn normal players into aggressive maniacs so the games stay wild and profitable.
❓Is there a Bart vid about High Hand promos & adjusting to action, hand selection, etc? Have weekly $500+ HH every 30 mins, which brings out the fish, degens, & chasers = softer games.
fyi: budgeting 50/30/20 is ranged/capped: "no more than 50% on your obligations/needs, no more than 30% on wants" -- so your debtpay/investing chunk is *AT LEAST* 20%!
Id have to drive 4 hours each way to get to a casino that regularly has 2/5 or bigger games. Where as my local casino has 1/2 every day and its 30 min away. Id love to move up in stakes. Id have to move to do it. In order to justify the move i need to be making enough money playing poker to make the move make sense. In order to make that kind of money playing poker id have to move up in stakes. Its a catch 22 for me. So i keep hoping ill finally win a big tournament for like 500k+ so i could afford to move and play poker for a while, while also looking for a new job in the new city just in case i cant make it as a poker pro.
This is 100% why hourly card rooms are taking over. Plus, tipping dealers is far more profitable for everyone, other than the few that are losing money at the table.
OMC didn't check raise Turn because hero made it obvious he was polarized (straight or draw). Then gin card river he SIGHS then overbets with his boat... easy fold
Having only watched the UA-cam version of this hand, this sounds absolutely insanely nitty. But having played live, you just get those reads off people sometimes, and that's the thing that's hard to convey as a call-in because so often it comes across as just an excuse or rationalization for a poor decision. But I think if you put this hand into a solver and then layer on a live tell or something like that, this isnt such an obvious call
About the small limits. In Texas, where i play, they have 1/3 $300 cap and 2/5 no cap. Its $10 per hour either table. Small sample size, but my win rate at 2/5 was about $400 a session (8 to 10 hrs) and about $1100 a session (9 to 12 hours). The 1/3 was by far easier players. Many 2/5 buy in for $300 waiting for a 2/5 seat and will regularly dump a bullet or two. People calling off with 2nd pair, making horrible bluffs, donk betting top pair every time.... Plus, by 9 pm most 1/3 tables have several stacks over $1,000... Rake can be a trap. But its only "A" factor in game selection, not "THE" factor....
We need all types of call-ins in order to keep the really dramatic and interesting ones fresh. If they all ended a particular way the tension would be gone from the ones that ended up being all-timers.
@@smokinjoe4709 bro youre still playing a brand of poker that loses over time. Yes you can beat this nit, but you cant beat anybody that knows what theyre doing. People will just bet you out of pots folding hands this strong regularly.
Budgeting 50/30/20 is ranged/capped: "no more than 50% on your obligations/needs, no more than 30% on wants" -- so your debtpay/investing chunk is AT LEAST 20%!
Anyone with a clue isn't going to only 3-bet 2.5x with a mid-pocket pair out of position. If villain wasn't a fish and just check raised the turn like he should, he would have stacked hero. This is why these lower stakes games can be hard to beat at times.
I have just recently delved into taking live poker seriously… and I’m curious as to how many buy-ins you would recommend to have when starting at 2/5.. I have definitely noticed the rake makes 1/3 hard to beat - however there is such a massive difference in skill level between the 1/3 & 2/5 stakes where I play it really is night and day. So is it worth me continuing to gain experience at 1/3 or should I just save enough until I have a decent enough bankroll to try cutting my teeth at 2/5?
A2s is literally the only hand hero beats; villain has zero missed FDs and would never play overpair this way. Easy fold esp. with the river sigh-lead OVERBET
If its capped, no problem with that rake at 1/3 whatsoever. Im not sure if its a tride and true casino or not, but in Oklahoma, casino card rooms are a huge rake trap. Playing there is so unprofitable its insane. I literally watch the dealer drop over 100 in 3 hands at 2/5. To put that more in perspective, avg chip stack was less than 1000. Thats insane!
Bart if he has 4 outs with still the turn and river to be seen. The 4/2 rule is in affect right? Four 6s left 4x4 with the turn is 16% chance and 4x 2 by the river with 8% chance of hitting the 6 by the river to make the nuts.
That’s a good fold. It’s an obvious full house because he doesn’t want it to go xx. I think 88 played pretty bad tho. Just bet the flop, x call the turn, x raise the river would be more profitable.
I'm betting pot on turn all day long. If he's got an overpair he's calling if he's got a set he's calling if he's got ace queen he's probably folding anything on the turn. Max value
I dont think so. You need to buy in and have bullets so you are not scared $$. If you make $15 at your job, it's hard to play 2/5 out of your paycheck.
I know Bart doesn't like to advocate for folds in these spots but is there a universe where at this level this is ever a bluff? The giant sigh and sudden huge lead when hero just as easily could've had 88 or 77 or 66 screams fold to me. I just don't think the "I'm getting x to y on my money" reasoning always matters. If you know you're beat, you've got to be able to fold.
Bart I understand the pot odds of 6 to 1 call the 30.00 bet into the 180.00 pot which are great odds. Can you explain to me how to get calculate the the 1 out 11 ?
At low stakes, this is a pretty easy fold against certain players, especially with the Hollywood acting job. Bart is wondering if he should shove or call, but my instant reaction was to fold. Most players at this level wouldn't overvalue aces or kings here, but they also wouldn't throw out a huge bluff on this board. That only leaves one option. Full boat. The bigger the stakes, the more you can think about ranges. At low stakes, it's often easy to put someone on a specific hand.
On your advice bart, my plan is to prove to myself i’m a winning player at 20NL over a large sample before I move up, i thought this was sound logic. Are you saying i should start playing at higher stakes from the get go?
The advice doesn't apply for online games. It also only applies to people who can actually miss some buy ins without hurting their financial situation.
The house is making around $200/hour. The dealer is probably making north of $50/hour in tips. The better players are making $25/hour. So, the other 6 players on an 8 handed table are losing $50/hour. I don't understand how/why anybody plays with regs or known good players. Why does anyone play on Hustler Live or Texas Card House?
@@32266ms maybe I don't have enough experience at higher levels but at 1/2 1/3 I see players tipping 1$ most of the time and some players don't tip. Maybe it's just my local area but that's my experience
the tank->sigh->overbet is ALWAYS a full house at 1/3. At the very worst, his sigh could be because he somehow backed into 6s full and he's not going to fold but he's dreading being beat by a bigger full house. It's never, ever going to be a bluff. I would have folded. It hurts, pot odds, etc. But there's just no chance it's either a bluff or a hand that he could plausibly fold. Zero chance he leads out with 2 pair either. It's not about the math, it's just never a bluff at 1/3. Even if it's higher stakes, how often do you see the tank->sigh->overbet bluff? That would have to be some kind of master theatrics.
Interestingly if he bet small like 40,50 on the turn, the opponent would have check raised. Then he could have just got it all in on the turn there with all the draws out there and opponent definitely would have called with his set. Or if he decided to call it would have been a relatively easier fold once the board pairs on the river and villain bets overpot
Microstakes are the only ones available where I live. No more than 2/3 (USD1.2-1.8) with 400 cap and 15 rake max :( Nothing within 1500km higher than that
The villain should have 3! bigger especially out of position probably 45,55$. Given this tiny 2.5X raise hero should 4! to like 80$ imo since opponent is not doing this with proper value hands like aa-qq,ak,etc and just calling caps the heros range to suited connectors and low pocket pairs.
I have to disagree with a lot of the analysis of this video... there have been multiple videos in the past where the mantra of "low stakes players don't bluff the river frequently enough" or "if the board dynamic changes, and as it changes your opponents play style changes as well, you are probably in trouble" and you can make exploitative folds here... And, both of those happen, at the same time on this river... opponent moves from check/call to lead/shove... and all of a sudden we should be calling off when opponent is screaming that he has you beat. I don't get it.
The line the villain took was minimum value. Just standard fish “traps” where the river is basically the perfect set up to allow the hero to bluff all of these semi-draws in their range, and instead you lead out the river because you are too chickenshit afraid of missing out on value. Hero should have and would have value bet the river as played. Instead, the villain missed out on a stack.
Villains 3bet size is tiny, very bet size = hand strength of him. Hero’s turn size is way too small. How much are sets or flush draws calling? Look how much stack depth is left. Could go maybe $250 and jam all brick rivers esp when double flush draw bricks. So many rivers can be hard to get action, so need to max on the turn so on clean rivers you can stack his top of range. I can get on board with the river fold based on the live read/line. X/c, x,c, lead Overbet is always nutted. And the small 3bet size pre would lead me to believe there’s more 77 and 88 in his range than normal.
People only half think through these things. 1/3 players who are so bad that they check call, check call, donk jam with a boat here aren't 3 betting 88 99.9999% of the time.
@@Jermo484exactly this. The probability of V having 88 or 77 is so fkn low and then PLAYING it that way also is freaking my mind. I even call river after him tabling 88 and check the cameras for foul Play or sth
Reminds me of one hand: I held 9Js in btn. 700effective. Fold around to me and i open raise to 15bucks. Player in BB 3bet tiny to 40bucks. I call 25more to play ip. Flop comes: Qhigh with Qh 9d 4c, dry board. Player cbet half pot 40 bucks. I made the call. pot is now around 165. turn 9c i turned trips. Player check and I bet 75% 120 into 165 pot to charge all over pairs wanting pot control. Would do the same with any backdoor floating hands. Player made the call after 20s thinking. river Jc. I rivered the backdoor boat with club draw completed there. Player led shove allin into me and I just had a feeling he got Qs trapping me down 😂 cuz it is a super unbalanced line. I made the Call with my 999JJ boat and player turned over Qs. 😂😂😂
I crush 1/3 for $50/hr. I play the best games at night. Why would I move to 2/5 where there’s a lot of pros to make 45/hr? I personally play worse at 2/5. I overthink too much, make bad calls, make bad plays. At 1/3 I’m a crusher. So I’d rather just go play 10/10 but not before I have a huge bankroll. Huge. Not just 20 buy ins. I don’t because I help my family and pay bills. *10/10 has more whales.
I don’t know, the way the story about how this hand played out, I’m skeptical the caller is being truthful. If the villain is as competent of a player as we’re being told then I have a hard time believing he didn’t check raise the turn considering the board texture and bet sizing. Of course I could be wrong but I get the feeling the hero didn’t call in looking for actual guidance or constructive feedback as much as he’s looking for a big ‘ol pat on the back for making a live read/amazing fold. Another reason I have a hard time believing this story is players who are “wild and aggressive” as the hero describes him are almost never going to show their nut hand after their opponent makes a huge lay down as described in the moment. It just doesn’t happen unless they are friends or have history together.
Oh yes because you know every single wild and splashy person in the world and you know not one of them ever in their entire life has ever showed a nutted hand when somebody makes a huge lay down. God what a fucking idiotic statement. People do stupid shit, people do nonsensical shit, so there's no telling what a person does or doesn't do. Regarding this caller; he's probably telling the truth because some people can't help show their nutted hands almost in disbelief when they see such ridiculous layouts.
C'mon Alex, you know NorCal has the CHEAPEST rake in the form of a $5 drop. And thats EASILY beatable with even the 1/3 with how it plays at Cap. Also, as an aside, I play poker at Capitol ALL the time and I've never ever ever paid any rake. But I also don't win any hands 😂
Another data point for the river 'sigh' overbet donk-lead with the absolute nuts, in a spot where low-stakes opponents are never-ever-ever-ever bluffing. At the same time, both opponents played this absolutely terribly. I thought AA was more likely than 88 though, 9T just has to call here 100%.
If you're a 1/2 or 1/3 player watch from 2:15 for Bart's take on bankroll and moving up stakes
I made a terrible call should I call in?
Bart was spot on with the bankroll tips ! ! I dabble in 2/5 here + there when possible. Hoping to make that my grind soon enough moving forward ♠️
How does this apply to tournaments?
It is so crazy that u seem to be the only one that shares this opinion with me. Here at Tampa hard rock we have a good 2/5 I have played for about 3 1/2 years and was forced to drop stakes and it makes u a worse player not to mention u are always going 5 ways to flop and so many OMC’s that won’t put a dollar in without top 10% of hands. I thought I was crazy cause I have hard time making money on 1/2 when I did well at 2/5 for couple years.
Rake here at 1/2 is so hard to beat, so wild to me that most people I talk to think this game is profitable. 2/5 is where u can beat the rake!
The old *sigh* ”Im all in” just SCREAMS nuts. I think this was brushed over too quickly in the call. In a vacuum this might not be the correct fold but there were so many clues this villain had the boat. WP caller
Appreciate It Sir 🙏
I thought same... unless he's a thinking player to the extent it's a fake sigh tell he's showing. I do that sometimes on polarized river bets, even at my 1/2 stakes. It works w other thinking players but can backfire if overcredit given to an ABC opponent! 😅
@mattstieg5388 That's certainly giving a lot to a 1/3 player 😄 However, he was def. above the curve IMO.
The most underrated answer
@@330miggsExactly. That'd be an outlier exception. Sigh call is a highly reliable tell in general. Esp in our low stakes. It's kind of astonishing when better than average players still let it slip or use it purposely as if they just saw Rounders gushing over Johnny Chan for the first time yesterday. 😆
The line the villain took was extremely strong. 3-bet, check call, check call, then lead with half his stack screams “Boat!”, especially with the Hollywooding before the river bet. I would have done a crying call, knowing he had a boat.
It is such a fishy line honestly. Fish never commit to the bluff-catch and are always afraid of losing value in the river, even though hero can have a bajillion missed draws to bet the river with.
Absolutely not true at all. Sets should be playing far more aggressively on the flop and turn. The fact is that the villain Hollywooding lost him a lot of value, because this line with a set is so passive and ludicrous.
@@timothynguyen4446i agree.
Dynamic flop, xr.
Turn get size was hero's mistake. And the reason OMC just called with top set. Miracle river = SIGH overbet? Hero fold, next hand plz
Nah I agree I’ve played a decent amount of 1/3 and if someone does the whole tank sigh BS they have it. This fold doesn’t make logical sense but when you’re playing 1/3 you have to account for the illogical. Nobody tanks, sighs and bluffs lol
Agreed. It's the same in 1/2. If they tank for a bit then donk bet you know they're praying for a call. Watching this the whole time I was putting villain on 22. Lol
Well said + Agree ! !
I had someone do it the other week with a set on a monotone flop. They actually claimed it was a bluff
I see these as reverse tells every once and awhile.
So smart Bart. Small NL is a complete rake trap. Think if you made $350 and won 8 pots. That’s $80 ish of rake and tip. Absolutely sick.
Rack please
6:30 _he was tilting, playing aggressive, showing third pair...playing wild_ ; 18:59 _...I can tell he knows what he is doing..._
And then he got super hot he said it was doubling up a few times
😂😂😂😂😂
I was the new sub that asked Bart about jumping up to 2/5 and mentioned the 50/30/20 rules. Thanks for continuing to expound on this topic, I'm going to check out the recent podcast. I'm planning on playing 2/5 for the first time this Friday. I think this is a great time: holiday weekend. I will be buying in short $300, bringing just over 2 buy-ins with me.
In Tejas, Im making around 1k week playing 1/3. Now its uncapped buyin starting with a 1500, but has 75% match. The games here play huge. I could make more if I could improve on my leaks and stop being exploited. Thats why im on these channels.
The huge turn sizing caused him not to XR.
underrated comment - this is the answer
This is 100% a fold. Check-call, check-call, donk large is always always always nutted. Add in the sigh before betting, I think this would be a horrendous call.
The sigh, or what the original Mad Genius of poker, Mike Caro, would call "poker cackle" is like 99% reliable
Especially at low stakes. So exploitable overall. Just starting to reread Caros Tells. Curious if any have changed.
Good call on the Vanguard Federal money market fund. I have been keeping my cash there for a year and a half or so, since interest rates starting going up. Good rate, easy to use.
This and love when spoken to about HSA's
I think Bart is generally right about moving up in stakes but the math suggests it is much harder in 2024 than most people realize. There are way more pros at 2/5 than there used to be. You need to think about how much you need recreational players to be losing per hour in order for you and the other winning players at the table to make money. There is an actual answer to this question and it is a bigger number($/hr) than most people realize
Most of these pros, are us part time 'grinders' who put in 40 hours a month. Myself included ~60/hr winrate at 3/5 ~25k a year extra income for a hobby/passion.
To be fair I make 150k a year in my normal job, so it really is for the competitive aspect.
My particular casino has been spreading 2/3 for 20 years, if you account for inflation... 2/3 shouldn't even exist anymore. New '2/3' should be '2/5'.
Literally 300 USD of 2004 dollars is 500 USD of 2024 dollars.
Those that grind low stakes and save money to move up is what he is trying to convey here about BRM. You have to be very financially savvy and have keen ability on the felt to move up. Yes, lots of pros grinding 2/5, but also lots making much bigger money in the 10/20 games. Then there are the rare few that play high stakes and do really well at it, finding those 25k profit sessions regularly. Me personally, I have started to save by purchasing certificates at my credit union, so that in 12 months once they start maturing, I have much more to buy-in with. Even if it doesn't last, I can at least say I played some high stakes poker.
@@PhonyBologna Yes. And all Vegas Poker rooms are about to raise rake as well. So everything is really out of wack. This is absolutely the context poker should be put in now. I was just sharing some perspective as many people still aspire to be full time live pros who pay their bills solely from poker and its almost not even really a thing anymore. You have to be an extremely rare breed to actually have the necessary qualities/life setup to pull this off. Less than 1% for sure
I’m not sure what do to because I see this.
Every 1/3 table I sit at I’m normally the best player at the table or sometimes there’s someone I feel is as good as me or a most there is someone who I think is better and generally everyone else is playing face up against me.
But when I sit at the 2/5 tables it’s like I feel like everyone is around my skill level and sometimes there’s one bad player at the table.
1/3 is so incredibly soft wherever I go; there’s such a discrepancy between 1/3 and 2/5 for me that I just play 1/3.
I easily have the bankroll for 2/5 but can’t get this out of my head. What should I do. I’m going to Vegas soon and want to play 2/5 but 1/3 is so soft for me.
Where is good to play 2/5 in Vegas. I have never played 2/5 in Vegas.
Where I am 2/5 is extremely tight but 1/3 is insanely soft
Well, if you kill off the lower stakes games, then all the 'fish' will move up to higher stakes and then all will be swell again.
Or they could just run 25c 50c games with 6 dollar rake :D
Fantastic. He tells Bart he would snap call any other player at the table with this hand. But the villain check check sigh, bet, is a great read from the hero. Small things like this will elevate your game. At these stakes anyways.
If you’re going around folding nut straits anytime some fish bets then you’re just hemorrhaging money.
in low stakes games live(1/2 & 1/3) often the win rate is more than a 2/5 in the same venue.
especially late at night......large bets with small blinds produce great results...often the result
of the flowing alcohol.
Yeah but when the 1/3 games are playing super deep it’s not a typical 1/2/1/3 game and stack depth makes it like 2/5
I remember many many moons ago back in the day when I played 3/6 Limit Holdem- no way to beat the rake. I remember one game where we were playing with the same 9 players for a several hours and I couldn't help but notice that after a few hours everyone's stack was viably dwindled. I could literally see the money being sucked of the table.
We can always literally see the dealer taking the rake money off the table buddy. No great observation there.
@@theejayzeeable if some players are winning it's less obvious, is his point I think.
If the same 9 players bought in for 100 dollars and no one added chips for hours.. You could litterally look around the table and see everyone is down or break even. I feel like if you really break down poker..most people wouldn't even play at all. The rakes are so big, and the skill gap is so minimal. Also, you can play perfect poker and lose every hand..so there is little to no room to be a winning player for average people without massive bank rolls.
Yep, those places are full of OMCs that aren't really playing poker, theyre having a social hour and swapping chips. If I don't see a player going all in at least once per hour, im racking up and leaving.
@@DavidKraktSave up, play larger stakes, find splashy home games
usable understandable poker logic. Either I just uped my skill level and am starting to understand analysis or this creator is a genius at poker analysis and teaching...either way I am liking and subscribing. Ty for the high quality, skill improving coaching. Nice. Peace
Thanks for the call Bart ! ! Really appreciate the insights 😎
A small (2.5x) 3-bet at the low stakes is actually quite common. I've seen plenty of min 3-bets with AA because most low stakes players don't have a good grasp of bet sizes.
Large river bets in 1/3 are almost always a HUGE hand. These players almost never bluff because of their passive style. I would have folded too. Let's not forget about the Hollywooding sigh that he let out too. Fold fold fold! Tap the table and say nice hand and move on to the next one.
Love your content . I have learned so much just watching it over the last couple years really appreciate the deep insight into hand situations really let's you see and understand not only hands but how others are playing their hands and eliminating what people can actually have most of the time .
The feigning weakness is what got me. Classic reverse tell
Thank you for the micro stakes advice. In this hand the hero is saying he made a great read, because his opponent was acting weak then looked really comfortable while he was tanking. Good read. But this is why I call. At micro stakes people do a lot of crazy things, getting 2 to 1 odds, and at the beginning of the break down the hero said the villain was aggressive, showing down 2nd pair. G.T.O. vs a live read. Tough choice.
I know he was right in this instance.....BUT, he 3! preflop, the frequency of the times he shows up with 88 is not enough to warrant a fold compared to all the other hands he could have.
I think in a vacuum I would agree. But I have to wonder how much such a tiny 3! and sighing then over pot better the river affects that decision lol. That sigh overpot bet alone would probably do it for me. Like, if it was a normal 3! to 4x in the BB and no sigh river over pot bet(or just wihttout the sigh) that would definitely have me calling. AKd would be a bluff on the river after X'ing the flop/turn from a solver aall day, in fact just watched an upswing poker video on the subject of blockers/unblockers that included that example, but that assumes people at 1/3 are doing solver work.
He basically min 3-bet, which I think gives him more middling pairs than a typical 3-bet. The part that made 88 less likely is slow playing on a very wet board. However, I think the caller was mostly going on live tells in this case. Hemming and hawing before a big bet is frequently the nuts.
Always trust the gut...the guy "sighing" is a tell and I would make a note of that for future playing with him.
I was thinking top set was the only value hand that would possibly check this flop. Especially at 1-3. People always want to get cute and trappy.
Villain missed serious value by not just betting the flop.
It's pretty simple. The small 3bet pre-flop with a middling pocket pair is to build the pot in case you flop a set. The check on the flop is because he probably heard somewhere it's harder to get value when you have top set because your opponent has far fewer TPTK or Top two pair hands. He overbets the river to make it look like a busted flush draw in an attempt to get max value.
my first thought was to fold. It's 1/3 and most everyone plays face up and does not bluff - also the majority of ppl slow play. Proper play rivering a full house would be to check raise all in river but - again- this is 1/3 and most people play face up.
I just now started reviewing my hands at micro stakes and the rake is crazy. And also, the villain played the flop like Marc Goone lol
You play online?
@@chefmikeankh6434 yep, microstakes online and live 1/3
Only in live poker can you do this. The sigh, coupled with the tank prior to the sigh, is almost always the nuts. That is a huge factor in the hand, ultimately.
I love when players talk about their poker stakes as a budget expense line.
It wouldn't be an expense line if they were a winning player. You are talking to a consistently losing player
Bart, would like your thoughts on this please. I regularly play in a 1/2 game with a $400 buy-in and it is match the stack. Every dealer change there is a $10 Bond pot. Typically as soon as someone wins a big pot everyone matches their stack. This means everyone ends up having 1,000 to $2,000 on the table. The openings are always for $20 plus and you still get callers. I do great at this game and really don't see the need to move up to the next highest game in the poker room where I do believe the players are better. What do you think?
Bart this is also a timed game that is 9 bucks per hour. There is also a $1 drop for promotions.
It's all a giant conspiracy by people like Bart and other poker coaches/ training sites.... they're goal is to turn normal players into aggressive maniacs so the games stay wild and profitable.
DREAM GAME. Lowest blinds don't always play small, and sometimes the next higher blinds play tighter with good regs
❓Is there a Bart vid about High Hand promos & adjusting to action, hand selection, etc?
Have weekly $500+ HH every 30 mins, which brings out the fish, degens, & chasers = softer games.
fyi: budgeting 50/30/20 is ranged/capped: "no more than 50% on your obligations/needs, no more than 30% on wants" -- so your debtpay/investing chunk is *AT LEAST* 20%!
Id have to drive 4 hours each way to get to a casino that regularly has 2/5 or bigger games. Where as my local casino has 1/2 every day and its 30 min away. Id love to move up in stakes. Id have to move to do it. In order to justify the move i need to be making enough money playing poker to make the move make sense. In order to make that kind of money playing poker id have to move up in stakes. Its a catch 22 for me. So i keep hoping ill finally win a big tournament for like 500k+ so i could afford to move and play poker for a while, while also looking for a new job in the new city just in case i cant make it as a poker pro.
The rake is 4% in my 2/4 room in France. Uncapped. I am basically paying for the dealers salary alone.
Just dont win any pots, and you're paying 0% rake. Ez pz.
This is 100% why hourly card rooms are taking over. Plus, tipping dealers is far more profitable for everyone, other than the few that are losing money at the table.
0:54 Learn and get good at PLO. You will be printing, but the downswings will be crazy.
Love when the fish get validated on a fold...they think they did good. No fish, this is a call
He made great lay down full houses beat alot of his straights two pair over pair and trips heros hand is face up and villains hand screams strength.
OMC didn't check raise Turn because hero made it obvious he was polarized (straight or draw). Then gin card river he SIGHS then overbets with his boat... easy fold
Guy check calls wet flop and turn with top set. Passive nits!
They are called OMC for a reason (based onbriver sigh-lead)
Having only watched the UA-cam version of this hand, this sounds absolutely insanely nitty. But having played live, you just get those reads off people sometimes, and that's the thing that's hard to convey as a call-in because so often it comes across as just an excuse or rationalization for a poor decision. But I think if you put this hand into a solver and then layer on a live tell or something like that, this isnt such an obvious call
The Hollywood act job raise at the end would have made me lean toward a fold too.
About the small limits. In Texas, where i play, they have 1/3 $300 cap and 2/5 no cap. Its $10 per hour either table. Small sample size, but my win rate at 2/5 was about $400 a session (8 to 10 hrs) and about $1100 a session (9 to 12 hours). The 1/3 was by far easier players. Many 2/5 buy in for $300 waiting for a 2/5 seat and will regularly dump a bullet or two. People calling off with 2nd pair, making horrible bluffs, donk betting top pair every time....
Plus, by 9 pm most 1/3 tables have several stacks over $1,000...
Rake can be a trap. But its only "A" factor in game selection, not "THE" factor....
Lol this guy just calls in to tell us he made a terrible fold.
BS - he read his opponent and made the correct move.
What's wrong with you people?
Respect him more than the caller whose opponent folds to a huge river bet, and has NO idea what his opponent had.
We need all types of call-ins in order to keep the really dramatic and interesting ones fresh. If they all ended a particular way the tension would be gone from the ones that ended up being all-timers.
Bad fold? 😂😂😂. Beautiful fold
@@smokinjoe4709 bro youre still playing a brand of poker that loses over time. Yes you can beat this nit, but you cant beat anybody that knows what theyre doing. People will just bet you out of pots folding hands this strong regularly.
Are 1/2 and 1/3 considered micros? I love this video. Sounds like my story
Live, yes, online, no
Online micros are 2nl, 5 NL, 10 NL, 25 NL etc.
The 50/30/20 rule is taught in most Financial Lit classes in secondary education.
Budgeting 50/30/20 is ranged/capped: "no more than 50% on your obligations/needs, no more than 30% on wants" -- so your debtpay/investing chunk is AT LEAST 20%!
Was the 72 Game on?
Anyone with a clue isn't going to only 3-bet 2.5x with a mid-pocket pair out of position. If villain wasn't a fish and just check raised the turn like he should, he would have stacked hero. This is why these lower stakes games can be hard to beat at times.
I have just recently delved into taking live poker seriously… and I’m curious as to how many buy-ins you would recommend to have when starting at 2/5.. I have definitely noticed the rake makes 1/3 hard to beat - however there is such a massive difference in skill level between the 1/3 & 2/5 stakes where I play it really is night and day. So is it worth me continuing to gain experience at 1/3 or should I just save enough until I have a decent enough bankroll to try cutting my teeth at 2/5?
A2s maybe? Overplaying the trip 2s?
A2s is literally the only hand hero beats; villain has zero missed FDs and would never play overpair this way. Easy fold esp. with the river sigh-lead OVERBET
Rake is 8 bucks too at Catskills
If its capped, no problem with that rake at 1/3 whatsoever. Im not sure if its a tride and true casino or not, but in Oklahoma, casino card rooms are a huge rake trap. Playing there is so unprofitable its insane. I literally watch the dealer drop over 100 in 3 hands at 2/5. To put that more in perspective, avg chip stack was less than 1000. Thats insane!
Bart if he has 4 outs with still the turn and river to be seen. The 4/2 rule is in affect right? Four 6s left 4x4 with the turn is 16% chance and 4x 2 by the river with 8% chance of hitting the 6 by the river to make the nuts.
Bravo on that fold, excellent. I would have lost the extra $400 and then went all phil hellmuth on the dude.
That’s a good fold. It’s an obvious full house because he doesn’t want it to go xx. I think 88 played pretty bad tho. Just bet the flop, x call the turn, x raise the river would be more profitable.
I'm betting pot on turn all day long. If he's got an overpair he's calling if he's got a set he's calling if he's got ace queen he's probably folding anything on the turn. Max value
So regarding the bankroll opinion: if max buy in at 1/2 is $500, would it make more sense just to play 2/5 with a shorter starting stack?
I dont think so. You need to buy in and have bullets so you are not scared $$. If you make $15 at your job, it's hard to play 2/5 out of your paycheck.
I know Bart doesn't like to advocate for folds in these spots but is there a universe where at this level this is ever a bluff? The giant sigh and sudden huge lead when hero just as easily could've had 88 or 77 or 66 screams fold to me. I just don't think the "I'm getting x to y on my money" reasoning always matters. If you know you're beat, you've got to be able to fold.
How do you think the river action would have gone if the board did not pair
Bart I understand the pot odds of 6 to 1 call the 30.00 bet into the 180.00 pot which are great odds. Can you explain to me how to get calculate the the 1 out 11 ?
It really bothers me when people use 'leads' wrong, so thanks bart 😅
Also regular 2 5 game. Evey day by 9 am
On the river: i would just call, the only thing that calls a raise beats you.
Bart is it ok to play 1 2 if I don't have to deal with rake?
At low stakes, this is a pretty easy fold against certain players, especially with the Hollywood acting job. Bart is wondering if he should shove or call, but my instant reaction was to fold. Most players at this level wouldn't overvalue aces or kings here, but they also wouldn't throw out a huge bluff on this board. That only leaves one option. Full boat. The bigger the stakes, the more you can think about ranges. At low stakes, it's often easy to put someone on a specific hand.
On your advice bart, my plan is to prove to myself i’m a winning player at 20NL over a large sample before I move up, i thought this was sound logic.
Are you saying i should start playing at higher stakes from the get go?
The advice doesn't apply for online games. It also only applies to people who can actually miss some buy ins without hurting their financial situation.
What if the stake is 1/3 100-500 buy in with a 6 dollar max rake with 1 extra for promo? (500 an hour high hand and bad beat).
I never make this fold, but I do think its probably correct…
In $1/3 if a guy just rockets $400 and we dont have the nuts, its not a bluff… 🤷♂️
Where do I see/hear the flagship podcast he's always referencing?
CLP website has info re. poddast membership etc.
It airs live on YT, I sometimes catch a piece of it
The house is making around $200/hour. The dealer is probably making north of $50/hour in tips. The better players are making $25/hour. So, the other 6 players on an 8 handed table are losing $50/hour. I don't understand how/why anybody plays with regs or known good players. Why does anyone play on Hustler Live or Texas Card House?
@GG-fi2sx never thought of that … some of them guys never lose as far as IRS is concerned.
Dealers are not making 50 per hour
@@CrAzYxLUCKY I’m saying just in tips. Deal 25 hands per hour and average a $2 tip. No?
@@32266ms maybe I don't have enough experience at higher levels but at 1/2 1/3 I see players tipping 1$ most of the time and some players don't tip. Maybe it's just my local area but that's my experience
@@32266ms no
the tank->sigh->overbet is ALWAYS a full house at 1/3. At the very worst, his sigh could be because he somehow backed into 6s full and he's not going to fold but he's dreading being beat by a bigger full house. It's never, ever going to be a bluff. I would have folded. It hurts, pot odds, etc. But there's just no chance it's either a bluff or a hand that he could plausibly fold. Zero chance he leads out with 2 pair either. It's not about the math, it's just never a bluff at 1/3. Even if it's higher stakes, how often do you see the tank->sigh->overbet bluff? That would have to be some kind of master theatrics.
Interestingly if he bet small like 40,50 on the turn, the opponent would have check raised. Then he could have just got it all in on the turn there with all the draws out there and opponent definitely would have called with his set. Or if he decided to call it would have been a relatively easier fold once the board pairs on the river and villain bets overpot
Microstakes are the only ones available where I live. No more than 2/3 (USD1.2-1.8) with 400 cap and 15 rake max :(
Nothing within 1500km higher than that
The villain should have 3! bigger especially out of position probably 45,55$. Given this tiny 2.5X raise hero should 4! to like 80$ imo since opponent is not doing this with proper value hands like aa-qq,ak,etc and just calling caps the heros range to suited connectors and low pocket pairs.
I have to disagree with a lot of the analysis of this video... there have been multiple videos in the past where the mantra of "low stakes players don't bluff the river frequently enough" or "if the board dynamic changes, and as it changes your opponents play style changes as well, you are probably in trouble" and you can make exploitative folds here...
And, both of those happen, at the same time on this river... opponent moves from check/call to lead/shove... and all of a sudden we should be calling off when opponent is screaming that he has you beat.
I don't get it.
They run a lively 5 5 plo
The line the villain took was minimum value. Just standard fish “traps” where the river is basically the perfect set up to allow the hero to bluff all of these semi-draws in their range, and instead you lead out the river because you are too chickenshit afraid of missing out on value.
Hero should have and would have value bet the river as played. Instead, the villain missed out on a stack.
Villains 3bet size is tiny, very bet size = hand strength of him. Hero’s turn size is way too small. How much are sets or flush draws calling? Look how much stack depth is left. Could go maybe $250 and jam all brick rivers esp when double flush draw bricks. So many rivers can be hard to get action, so need to max on the turn so on clean rivers you can stack his top of range.
I can get on board with the river fold based on the live read/line. X/c, x,c, lead Overbet is always nutted. And the small 3bet size pre would lead me to believe there’s more 77 and 88 in his range than normal.
Fold pre
As soon as you said he tanked for a minute, sighed, then overbet the pot... those tells scream full house
Are you doing the Million Dollar game?
Bart doesn’t play $1000/$2000 lol
@@nicholi2789 He commentated it last year genius! Its also $500/$1000 Genius
@@nicholi2789 He commentated last year genius! Its also $500/$1000 genius! Never said anything about him playing in it
In 1 2 or 3 i fold. Guys dont check call then over bet river unless they have it. Higher stakes sure.
Sigh bet is always 99.999% certainly quads or boat. Its almost as sure as head shake all in
That’s almost always a fold at 1/3. They’re always showing up with a boat there. 90% of the time
People only half think through these things. 1/3 players who are so bad that they check call, check call, donk jam with a boat here aren't 3 betting 88 99.9999% of the time.
@@Jermo484exactly this. The probability of V having 88 or 77 is so fkn low and then PLAYING it that way also is freaking my mind.
I even call river after him tabling 88 and check the cameras for foul Play or sth
Reminds me of one hand:
I held 9Js in btn. 700effective.
Fold around to me and i open raise to 15bucks.
Player in BB 3bet tiny to 40bucks.
I call 25more to play ip.
Flop comes: Qhigh with Qh 9d 4c, dry board.
Player cbet half pot 40 bucks. I made the call. pot is now around 165.
turn 9c i turned trips.
Player check and I bet 75% 120 into 165 pot to charge all over pairs wanting pot control. Would do the same with any backdoor floating hands.
Player made the call after 20s thinking.
river Jc.
I rivered the backdoor boat with club draw completed there.
Player led shove allin into me and I just had a feeling he got Qs trapping me down 😂 cuz it is a super unbalanced line.
I made the Call with my 999JJ boat and player turned over Qs.
😂😂😂
I crush 1/3 for $50/hr. I play the best games at night. Why would I move to 2/5 where there’s a lot of pros to make 45/hr? I personally play worse at 2/5. I overthink too much, make bad calls, make bad plays. At 1/3 I’m a crusher. So I’d rather just go play 10/10 but not before I have a huge bankroll. Huge. Not just 20 buy ins. I don’t because I help my family and pay bills.
*10/10 has more whales.
Someone who 3 bets to 2.5x OOP doesn’t “know what he’s doing.” People give their opponents way too much credit at these stakes.
I don’t know, the way the story about how this hand played out, I’m skeptical the caller is being truthful. If the villain is as competent of a player as we’re being told then I have a hard time believing he didn’t check raise the turn considering the board texture and bet sizing. Of course I could be wrong but I get the feeling the hero didn’t call in looking for actual guidance or constructive feedback as much as he’s looking for a big ‘ol pat on the back for making a live read/amazing fold. Another reason I have a hard time believing this story is players who are “wild and aggressive” as the hero describes him are almost never going to show their nut hand after their opponent makes a huge lay down as described in the moment. It just doesn’t happen unless they are friends or have history together.
A good player don't sigh-bet. This is a massive tell.
Oh yes because you know every single wild and splashy person in the world and you know not one of them ever in their entire life has ever showed a nutted hand when somebody makes a huge lay down. God what a fucking idiotic statement. People do stupid shit, people do nonsensical shit, so there's no telling what a person does or doesn't do. Regarding this caller; he's probably telling the truth because some people can't help show their nutted hands almost in disbelief when they see such ridiculous layouts.
No one but maybe the caller thinks the villain is competent. He 3 bet to 2.5x with 88 lol.
The comments here really show poker is alive and well if even the listeners of this podcast don’t understand live dynamics.
At this level and with the weird Hollywooding, I think I can seriously consider folding here.
Nice fold 🤌🏻
Rake is the true killer; especially in California 😵
C'mon Alex, you know NorCal has the CHEAPEST rake in the form of a $5 drop. And thats EASILY beatable with even the 1/3 with how it plays at Cap.
Also, as an aside, I play poker at Capitol ALL the time and I've never ever ever paid any rake. But I also don't win any hands 😂
A $400 cap for 1/3 is garbage. I would avoid that room if I could do so.
Have any one ever made 3k in 1/2 game 40 min 100 max no match the stax
I would love 50 cent/$1 at $100 max
How do you not raise turn wtf
It's not a lead if your opponent checks it to you first.
This is a fake hand. No one folds a str8 here and no V plays 88 this way. FAKE!!!
That's a snap fold vs his sigh raise
Another data point for the river 'sigh' overbet donk-lead with the absolute nuts, in a spot where low-stakes opponents are never-ever-ever-ever bluffing. At the same time, both opponents played this absolutely terribly. I thought AA was more likely than 88 though, 9T just has to call here 100%.
...and lose 100%.
I can‘t believe what i was just listening to. Is this real life?