Death by Gooseberry Tart: The Murder of Mabel Greenwood, Kidwelly, 1919 by Mark John Maguire
Вставка
- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- After Sunday lunch on 15th June 1919, Mabel Greenwood fell ill - "It's the gooseberry tart" she said "It always disagrees with me." When she died during the night the attention of locals in Kidwelly in West Wales focused on her philandering husband, Harold - who proposed to 2 different women only weeks later - and these suspicions grew after it was learned that her cause of death was from arsenic poisoning rather than gooseberry tart. Was the merry widower a murderer as well as a philanderer? And was his friend Dr Griffiths really as utterly incompetent as he seemed to be? It seemed to many that Harold Greenwood had got away with murder...
A number of people have asked if they can help support my channel - I don't have any adverts on my channel (and don't intend to) but if anyone wishes to help defray the expenses of making these videos in some small way, they can buy me a cup of coffee! www.buymeacoffee.com/MarkJohnMaguire
Mabel Greenwood was my great grandmother. Thank you for sharing her story.
Thank you - that is very interesting.... do you have any insights/family opinions that have percolated down the years?
Were you aware of her being poisoned or did you learn of it through this video?
Oh dear. How tragic. Mabel deserved so much better.
She was really pretty!!!
What did you’re grand parent think ??? Also you’re parent which wouldn’t have been Mabel’s Grandchild
I love that you include so many photos of the actual people in the cases. It's fascinating to see what people actually wore, where they lived, etc. The amount of arsenic poisoning going on back then is truly terrifying though.
Arsenic and strychnine seem to be the go to methods of the time.
Fascinating isn’t it✊
You could buy them over the counter in those days.
I wonder how many guilty persons Marshall Hall helped to get away with murder by coaching and/or bullying witnesses.
Quite a few! I can think of another one which I am sure I will cover at some point.
Well it is his job. So I would imagine loads.
Marshall Hall knew exactly who had poisoned Mabel and so did the Judge.
which lawyer hasnot done that?
I feel like he also defended a huge amount of people..I mean he’s practically in every one of these videos lol
I can't stop watching your videos, and listening to your voice. Such clarity of yours is very rare nowadays. Also, I notice that you take your time to be perfect. That is really great and important for the listener. I understand that each video represents an enormous amount of work. I want to thank you for all this. It is 3:21 AM here, in NJ, and I am still listening and watching your videos which I discovered a few days ago.
Thank you, Monique - 3.21 AM! Well obviously my videos don't work as a soporific for everyone! Yes, a lot of work, but the appreciation shown is greatly valued, I assure you!
@@TheyGotAwayWithMurder I even like your comments and well-articulated responses!
@@stephaniek1076 That's a delightful compliment, thank you!
@@stephaniek1076
As in all capital cases of murder. The proof of guilt must be beyond a reasonable shadow of doubt.
What an excellent video, professionally produced and clearly narrated, without any of the distracting gimmicks and flashiness modern TV documentaries suffer from. I see you've done Madeleine Smith and Madame Fahmy as well. I feel some binge-watching coming on!
Despite the topic, this channel is so relaxing to me. Old cases, beautifully presented, voice and accent perfect! You are helping those of us in lockdown not lose our minds!
I feel the same, comforting!!!🙏👏😎
"The Voice"...On the level of 'Nemo's Dreamscapes'. but in glorious Black & White
Me too! LOVE IT!
Very ‘Agatha Christie’ like.
Me too
This is a calm, reasonable exploration. I so appreciate it for not being drama centered, but informational.
“Mabel Greenwood died.” I appreciate that you said “died” as opposed to “passed.”
Sir you have an amazing gift for story telling and your voice is very pleasing. I'm so glad I have found your channel.
Thank you kindly, Benjamin - I am delighted you liked it!
Yes, and you are incredibly well spoken. So many you tubers are close to illiterate, not seeming to understand adverbs/adjectives or past perfect tenses. I appreciate that the younger you tubers have crazy followers, but good grief, these are born ppl speaking English 🥴🥴🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️
Sir, I strongly concur with your opinion.
Great story telling voice!! Really enjoyed the program.
Thank you, Judy - glad you enjoyed it!
When I was a little girl, there was a channel on the radio that would tell stories like this one. We didn't have a tv so I listened to the stories on the radio. I believe that's where my love of reading books came from.
Thank you, Connie
They Got Away With Murder I have a similar experience. I lived in rural NM and late at night at the far end of the AM radio. The station was in OK. Maybe 500 miles away. Thanks, man, nice memory.
Connie Crawford I remember them too but the one person who scared me was Edgar Lustgarten a crime writer famous in the UK I would go to the Saturday matinee in UK and he would narrate a case this was before the big picture dont know to this day why children's matinee would feature him I remember my mother complaining to the cinema management
The radio show may have been Whitehall 1212, or the Black Museum hosted by Orson Welles.
Beautifully told as always. I suspected the doctor was in cahoots with the husband very early on.
Thank you , from Sydney Australia. I find old crime cases interesting & fascinating when you consider , the Police & Dr's alike , didn't have the knowledge & forensics skills of today. Your presentation is Top Quality & Extremely enjoyable . Once again thanks.
Thank you, Leanne - yes, it makes them all the more interesting that detectives relied chiefly on circumstantial evidence as there was little in the way of forensics to guide them!
What a thorough and wonderful collection of pertinent photographs.
Thank you, Roger!
I would pay good money to have this narrator read me a bedtime story as if I were a little kid and lull me to sleep after a hard day. What a gift for narration!
Ditto!!
Oh my! I’m not the only one. I used to love Jackanory as a child growing up in the U.K. in the 1970’s.
You can pay me good money to tell you a bed time story if you want.
Your place or mine?
Only no bed time gooseberry wine !
@@ThomasAllan-up4td lol, you’re on!
@@Andrew-fy9wu lol, I am perfectly fine. I just find Mr. Maguire’s voice soothing and was simply joking around with @ThomasAllan-up4td, who I believe was also just joking around.
There are many of these creatures among us, known and unknown.
Lawyers know if their clients are guilty or innocent, but they don’t care. Their job is to win their case, guilty or not
Well, it is true, Rebecca - it is most necessary that anyone brought before a court of law should be able to secure the best legal representation; it is also the case that such a legal representative should be able to make their best efforts on behalf of their client. But it affronts our sense of justice when we see a person who is clearly guilty go free... It isn't a perfect system...
It's not fair to say that they don't care. Our legal system requires that both sides are represented and that the lawyers for both sides represent their clients to the best of their abilities. Therefore, in every trial, it is inevitable that one of the lawyers will be representing "injustice" ... that's just how our adversarial legal system works. The cases are made, and the jury decides.
Richard van Egneem good point! He may have got away with it legally, but his life was no good after the trial.
Their Job is to hold up the constitution I think not become disgusting slimes garbage to get their client free, but it’s win all all costs with many of them,
@@TheyGotAwayWithMurder I like how you talk.
I've been listening to these for a solid 4 hours straight now, this channel is exceptional. Thank you!
Thank you very much!
the music, the narration and the whole style of presentation is of untold perfection, such a calm and delightful voice... good old days, thank you Sir...
So happy to have found this channel. Classic British domestic murder cases have always fascinated me
Thanks very much for the wonderful content so far. Really looking forward to hearing more!
Thank you very much! I'm delighted you have found this channel too and that you have enjoyed the cases!
yes 'it's always the husband/wife' :-)
He looks a lot older than 55 in photos. Horrible suffering for poor, Mabel.😞
Yes, I agree - but his age was 50 in these photos, believe it or not...
Everyone looked older then. No colour in their lives.
I was managed when he said he died at 55. He easily looked late sixties in the photos.
With cases like these I always wonder what became of the children? Somewhere down the comments it says Irene got married in 1928. What of the other children? And how did it affect their lives and reputations? So sad.
All I know is that I would never let that doctor treat or diagnose me, and that Harold looked MUCH older than his wife.
Yes - he seems to have been particularly useless as a physician! In some of the photos Harold looks very old - it is hard to believe he was in his 50s and a success with the ladies!
I just discovered your site. You really give great details regarding these past cases. Love the clear strong narration. Thank you! I've just subscribed.
Thank you very much! It's nice to hear you liked it!
Wouldn't get away with stuff like this today, can you even imagine walking into a 'Pharmacy' as they were back then and buying arsenic, morphine and even cocaine over the counter. Now you can't even buy more than 2 packs of paracetamol/ibuprofen.
You're right! I had no idea of this, until I tried to buy 4 packs of paracetamol before going on holiday a couple of years ago and was refused! I thought the cashier was joking for a moment - she wasn't!
Boots pharmacy,Savers,Tesco,Lloyds pharmacy,well,that is 8 packs of paracetamol,just saying....😐
Never take toxic pharmaceuticals " boswella is a natural alt for headache
Traumeel is a good anti inflammatory
Allopathic medicine is a hoax. Never gonna cure you, only suppress symptoms
Have you heard of OJ Simpson?
Conor Leeson you can bye rat poison easily today 🤣
Poor Mable, her husband does look a lot older than her, I have No Respect for him been with other women while married.
Glad to hear all the "Jones'" in this program. My Grandmother was a Jones, both of her parents were Jones' and both came from Wales to Amarica in the 1600's.
Mark, once again your insights to you and nature are extremely good. Such a wonderful podcast series. Thank you for making these and posting them on the web. I must admit I’m getting addicted to them, but I don’t want any cure.These are superior anything it’s like on TV.
Thank you, Michael - it is marvellous to hear this! :)
Very glad this came up in my recommends, as this is a presentation with high production standards. And what a treat to have "person" narration, by the author!
I've liked and subbed and am looking forward to a massive binge!
Thank you, Bilinda - you have been as good as your word!
They Got Away With Murder yep, usually am! Glad I saw yr reply come up, I think I’m off to second helpings!
Very interesting but I would Also like to know what happened to the second wife and his children over time.
His second wife, Gladys died in Llanelli on 14th January 1962. His son was still alive in the 1970's as he visited Kidwelly. Eileen became a solicitor but died during the war. I've no idea what happened to Ivor. What happened to Irene is another tale to be told. PS Greenwood didn't do it.
Who do you think did it? You seem to imply it was Irene and would be interested in your reasoning. I gather she did not like her mother much, or so Miss Phillips said.
I love these videos. Your narration is perfect!
Thank you very much indeed, Stuart!
I'll second that.
Your videos are so well done and much better than anything on tv. I'm very happy to have found your channel.
You're very kind to say so - thank you!
I have found your channel yesterday and I am happy to listen to your real stories. I like your voice and the presentation of the cases. Greetings from Spain.
Thank you Cornelia - I am delighted you are enjoying them - greetings from Wales!
His second wife was only 9 years older than his own daughter !! Shameless bugger !
Love your channel - some very interesting cases! (The opening sequence - the animated man with the cigarette falling down dead - reminds me a bit of the old 'Ironside' titles).
Thank you - I'm so glad you like it! The animated man does resemble the Ironside beginning, you're right, I hadn't thought of it before. I am just conscious of doing an awful lot of drawings to produce this little animated sequence!
Thank you so much for these stories, this is the kind of content that UA-cam should encorage; informative, well produced and researched. Excellent.
Glad you enjoyed it, Layla - I am delighted!
'A ladies man' they musta been desperate if they went with sum1 who looked so old😕
Yes - I had to double-check that his age is correct: he is 50 in the photos here: born 1875!
Money makes people blind to wrinkles. Fact! :)
In 1919 there was a distinct shortage of young men, thanks to WWI.
@@MasterCedar To compensate for my earlier and somewhat cynical comment. My grandfather was 35 and unmarried at the end of WWI. He was also poor and minus an eyebrow that had been shot off (I have a photo, nasty scar). He married a 20-year-old.
Another factor that might have contributed: A lot of young 'betrothed' women said a final goodby to their respective beaus during that carnage. Despite being perfectly eligible, many chose not to remarry or find another. That meant that only younger women, too young at the start of the war to have been in a relationship, were all that was available.
Being a grandson of that relationship, I'm in no position to comment on age differences. My grandmother was quite a lady, no slouch didn't suffer fools and that included my battle-hardened grandad.
However, just to be fair, those are merely photos, and who knows what he really looked like in person; some traits don't transfer well. Also, don't underestimate the powers of either charisma or manipulation, or both! It seems as if he likely was quite manipulative...what I gathered from this narrative.
The funeral baked meats doth coldly furnish forth the marriage table.
So, it was Gladys Jones that he married but May was the second woman he proposed to! Talk about plates in the air.
Very apt, Susan! I cannot understand why the second woman accepted him, knowing he was 1) so recently widowed, and 2) had already asked another woman! I understand also, he was making moves towards the nurse who attended Mrs Greenwood when she was ill!
Very well done! By the way, The Greenwood case was only one of many cases Sir Edward received more congratulatory letters, but none came from the prisoner himself - the only one of all his prisoners who never thanked him by word or letter. Perhaps his counsel’s absences
were still rankling in Mr. Greenwood’s mind. It is certainly a fact
that he refused to pay him his fee.
Thank you, Madonna! I don't know what the cause of Greenwood's refusal to pay his fee was - perhaps he had no money left. He was also involved in a dispute with his former friend Dr Griffiths regarding money owed...
@@TheyGotAwayWithMurder he did not pay it because he thought he had the right not to pay it. Considering he was a malignant narcissists on the border line of being a sociopath, one can understand his arrogance of not paying the fee.
@@creolelady182 Yes!
Thank you! Well narrated. Your voice is soothing. Subscribed.
What counsel absences? I don't recall anything about that in this doc, but perhaps you are culling a fact from elsewhere (?).
Well written, interesting NEW cases, and a most pleasant narrator! I’ll be back often.
Honestly I disagree. I love true crime docs but this by the far has the worst narrator. The voice is lifeless it makes interesting facts difficult to actually take in because it gives the appearance of being a terribly boring educational documentary from the 80s that didn't age well. Sorry if that sounds harsh but let's be honest here. I don't think I can actually finish the video but I will try.
I so agree Chris. I just found this fabulous channel a week or so ago and have shown restraint, otherwise I would have binge watched them all in one evening or two. I am soothed by the narrator's voice and have enjoyed learning about a few cases that I have never heard of and I live in the UK.
@@IslandGirlKelly I found it last night and love it. It's the best story time for adults before a good night's sleep. A cup of tea and Im ready.
@@shanmareewalker7836 So happy that you had a wonderful night's sleep Shan, now you'll be ready to take on the day.
@@chinchillin2262 I would pay to have this gentleman read to me. He should be reading books professionally.
I believe they did this case for White Hall 1212 and/or Secrets of Scotland Yard. It’s a knotty case. Thanks, lovely channel.
Thank you!
Just found your channel and have binge watched all the episodes, some of them twice. 😊 I find these old murder cases fascinating. In addition to these cases I am also very interested in Edith Thompson's, Alma Rattenbury's and Charlotte Bryant's cases.
Thank you very much, Irmeli - I'm delighted you liked them! I am familiar with the Rattenbury and Stoner case (and the Thompson/Bywaters) but not the Charlotte Bryant case. I have just read of Charlotte Bryant, this moment, however - quite fascinating!
Really enjoying getting to know these stories. Thank you for the time and effort you put in to making these come ‘alive’.
Thank you - I am glad you are enjoying them, and thank you for letting me know!
He died at only 55? Going by the photos I'd say he was in his 70s. Life was harsh then.
Yes, I agree - I had to check his birth details to ensure his age was correct!
I totally agree. He is not attractive at all and looks much older.
I wonder if he lied about his age to impress the ladies.
Maybe the collusion was between the father and daughter? It was her testimony after all that helped to free him.
It is possible, of course - but there was nothing to suggest anything other than a great deal of affection between mother and daughter. My view is that she saved her father, when it became clear that nothing else would save him...
Excellent again, Mark. Dr Griffiths' behaviour goes well beyond incompetence. I wonder what his reputation was as a doctor. Also, I wonder if he was a weak person who could have been manipulated by Greenwood. The suggestion that he was a collaborator - whether before of after the fact - is overpowering.
Thanks Paul. I did try to find out more about the doctor, but aside from references to him in various West Wales newspapers I had little luck. I thought he looked rather shifty in the photos! I know the doctor and Greenwood fell out after the trial and Greenwood left Kidwelly owing the doctor money, but unfortunately I found out little else. Either he was a truly abysmal doctor or a complicit one - or possibly both!
Great points.
I am certain that the same Dr Griffis produced medical evidence in The Major Armstrong case .
I notice the scoundrel had the doctor's sister? daughter? lined up as a red herring for who he was going to marry once his wife was out of the way. Perhaps the good doctor was looking to feather his female relatives nest egg with another unfortunate event?
Great channel. Please look into the death of Jane Stanford from Stanford university. She was poisoned. Her death led the way for the eugenics movement at Stanford.
Have references to share
Good story, well told.
Thank you, Pamela
Listening to these has become a sort of ASMR to me now! Love this narrator's intelligent and relaxing voice.
Thank you - I'm so glad you like them, Elsie!
I've just susbscribed and I am already binge watching all episodes . Keep it up, Mark.
Thank you, Mona - I am pleased you like them!
Great presentation and lovely voice:) thankyou
Thank you very much!
Another case of the outcome of a trial rests heavily of the ability of the attorney. 🤨☹️
i am flabberghasted that the prosicution did not ask what pain meds had to do with arsnic , because she had a belly full of arsnic , not pain meds
Yes - many of these old trials were hit and miss in their presentation of evidence and conduct!
Exactly what I thought.Regardless of what the Dr, competent or not administered, it was the Arsenic that was the issue. People don't normally knowingly ingest arsenic, especially in such a huge amount. But I definitely think the Dr was involved, otherwise his behaviour wasn't just incompetent,it was borderline criminal
@@hogwashmcturnip8930 I am afraid your name becomes you Sir, for you speak complete hogwash; arsenic neither tastes or smells of anything, it can easily be introduced to a victim in their food or drink, or even in a compressed format, I.e. a tablet
@@mrmrsmarshall9110 And your name says it all too. Boring slow pedants from Hicksville by any chance?. At what point did I say arsenic tasted of anything? What I did say clearly went over your heads. I suggest you keep your opinions to yourself, before insulting people because you lack the wit to read a comment correctly .
Good point!
I cannot stand modern true crime stories, but I can't get enough of this.
Thank you, Michelle!
I watch this channel all the time but i just realized that 100 years from somebody will tell the OJ story just like this....
hopefully not a Yank as it will be a BLM exercise perhaps.
Another excellent piece of work.I am slowly making my way through your videos. I hope you don’t take this the wrong way but listening to your voice in these videos helps me to fall asleep! 😄👏🏻
Thank you, Anna! I take no offence at that - I am told that by others and I hope that falling asleep to such tales of murder will not be the cause of any nightmares!
They Got Away With Murder On the contrary. Your soothing voice is the thing that sends me off to sleep, regardless of the subject matter you are narrating! 😘
@@annamaciver9889 That's nice!
Could the doctor and the husband in fact be lovers ? Had Mabel found out and threatened to expose him? The amazing interest in lady friends so soon after his wife’s death might be deliberate , to act as a cover for any suspicion about the pair of them. In 1919 people may not have thought of that explanation ...
The Victorians took mourning *very* seriously and this occurred right on the heels of the Victorian era.
Why would the daughter lie about drinking the same liquid? What did she gain?
This single claim by the daughter was crucial to the case - the assertion that she had also drunk the wine came late in proceedings and effectively saved Harold from the gallows. As the judge said in his summing up - "If the daughter drank the wine - then there is an end of the prosecution case". It is my belief that Marshall Hall put it to her - as he often did to the defence witnesses he briefed very carefully - that her father would hang if it was accepted that the poison was in the wine. It placed her in a terrible position - obviously she believed her father to be innocent of the crime, but if she had drunk the wine then she would surely have said so when interviewed by police.
@@TheyGotAwayWithMurder Well said; well done. My new favorite UA-cam channel for the following reasons in no certain order: high quality content, writing, and (last but certainly not least) narration! Please accept my gratitude.
Save her father.
@@TheyGotAwayWithMurder How old was the daughter to be drinking wine?
@@GieCampbel-ug9jl She was 22.
You make a case, but there's one area that seems unexplored--namely the daughter, who evidently stood to inherit the bulk of the estate. I am not accusing her, but rather noting she's an obvious suspect who is not treated as such in this video.
Irene was dismissed from the police inquiries early on - she enjoyed excellent relations with her mother, had multiple sources of funding from her mother's family, and all her actions after her mother was taken ill, were directed towards getting her mother medical assistance. There are a number of other suspects, of course - the doctor, the doctor's sister, servants, visitors etc: but none in whom sufficient motive, means or opportunity, could be discerned - and none whose actions or conduct towards Mabel suggested their involvement.
@@TheyGotAwayWithMurder Thank you very much!
There were four children, so it's unlikely Irene would have inherited the BULK of the estate, I don't think.
@@TheXmeimei Given the context, she might well have supposed her father would "take the fall." Maybe. The Channel already provided details of why she was not investigated in a reply. But in theory, if the daughter was going to inherit enough money to make a difference in her life--well, that has been a motive for murder before now. My point was that the documentary itself does not address her as a suspect, not that she was guilty.
Irene inherited only a quarter of her mother's inheritance and only on marriage. In 1921 she was working as a governess.
Was this the case which the book "Malice Aforethought" was based on?
I don't know that - but there are similar elements in all of these "respectable" arsenic murders!
I think it is based on the the Major Armstrong case which is very similar to this and was virtually happening at the same time in Kidwelly.
Agatha Christie based her story 'The Cornwall Mystery on this case. Aldous Huxley also wrote The Giaconda Smile which also leant on this case.
Why would a daughter not support her Mother and take her Father’s side? She had to know that he poisoned her Mother
I can understand it - firstly, she would believe him innocent because she would want to believe this; secondly, she would not wish to see her father hang... She was in a terrible position. I have no doubt Marshall Hall laid out before her the consequences of her various actions...
I do enjoy a nice gooseberry tart, gooseberry fool and gooseberry crumble too. A much underrated and yet quintessential English summer fruit. It goes unnoticed in so much popular media maybe that's why no one ever suspects it of murder.
It seems that Mr. Hall must have been rather busy. I recall he was in another story. Too bad that he couldn't have had a verdict of "not proven". Thanks, Mark.
Thanks Julie - I rather like the Scottish "third way" myself!
So what appears to be the case here is an incompetent lawyer and his friend, an incompetent doctor, murdered a woman in a way which, coupled with their later actions, could not fail to convince the public that there was no accident here. If the matter was not so tragic, it could almost be comedic.
interesting story and i could listen to this narrator all day
Are the photos the actual people concerned?
Yes, they are.
If he was definitely guilty he doesn’t seem to truly have got away with it. He needed up worse off after Mabel’s death in many ways
After watching this, I went out to my back garden and picked gooseberries, and then made a tart. It was good!
Lol...and so glad there was no arsenic blowing off the weeds nearby!
Can you please do a couple of episodes where "They don't get away with Murder".
Some part of me really needs that.
I would like very much to do that, Antonio, but I am conscious that I will get a barrage of rebukes from dissenters, asking "In what way did he get away with murder?"!
I do believe that his crime mysteries are captivating just by his voice alone. I am in mystery heaven. Doing a marathon 🤔.Glad that I found your channel ❤️🇨🇴.
Thank you, I'm delighted you enjoy them!
I ve never been impressed with Marshall Hall if people have got the money he will get you off. whether he believes you innocent or not some parts of his defence are unbelievable. The green bicycle case for instance. Its always seemed to me Marshall hall got a lot of murderers off, nothing brilliant about that.
I have mixed feeling on the matter to be honest. We need defence barristers and it's an important part of our system that every person is innocent until proved guilty. Clearly they are entitled to expert defence lawyers to ensure they are able to make their case adequately in court. It is also incumbent on any barrister worth his or her salt to do the very best they can for their client. But I agree with you that Marshall Hall's failing - as with many other barristers - was that he would go to almost any lengths to get his client off. His most notorious case in this respect, I think, was that of Princess Fahmy, where his outrageous defence and blackening of the victim's name caused great - and justifiable - anger in Egypt... I guess the question is: how far should a barrister go in defence of their client?
@@TheyGotAwayWithMurder My mind jumps to John Mortimer's creation, Horace Rumpole. He seems most at home in cases involving his most regular clients, the Timsons, a family of minor villains who never commit really serious crime, so that he can make keeping them out of prison whenever possible almost a sort of sport. Every so often, he realizes he's being used; when he's expected or "supposed" to lose a case, it raises his ire, and when the thumb on the scale assists his victory (in one case, he gets a conviction overturned of a dangerous terrorist), it really bothers his conscience. In many of the best stories, Rumpole wins the case and/or brings out the truth at his client's expense.
All lawyers work to the level of pay for sure.
But why would you have feelings of ill will to a defence lawyer or barrister?
Its a business, of a few. A lawyer, a barrister, an investigater.
Opposing the entire crown. A a murder breif has multiple statements, many hours of police work. Multiple police statements.
When a lawyer beats a case, whether the defendant is innocent or guilty, we blame the lawyer.
Im more along the lines, especially in this day and age, you had 8 police statements, multiple background statements, a autopsy, some dna perhaps, if you cant make the case its down to
1. The defendant is innocent
2. The lawyer was awesome
Leaving,
3. Why would you be dirty on the lawyer. Surely the prosecuter and police did a shite job. Or in reality, didnt do their job effectively, and considering the money they earn, they are the ones ppl should direct critisism against
@@seto749 One of the great creations of Mortimer - who was himself a barrister and afficionado of old cases. I recall Rumpole well - "She Who Must be Obeyed" and the Penge Bungalow Murder upon which his career rested... A sort of Don Quixote of barristers!
Mortimer wrote a book about famous trials and he included the Greenwood one though as I have not read it I don't know his verdict
A similar case happened here in Atlanta about 2 years ago
Oh, her death definitely was not accidental.... as a matter of fact, certain persons couldn't wait for her death.... so very sad.... how did the incompetent doctor miss arsenic??? He should have been arrested and charged too! But, in the end, noone really got away with her murder...
Mabel looks so sad in the pictures.
The husband again!
@@TheyGotAwayWithMurder And yet Poirot claimed to have encountered five cases of wives murdered by devoted husbands against twenty-three cases of husbands murdered by devoted wives.
My great great grandmother on mom’s side killed her husband with a cast iron skillet and got away with it.
Was it investigated? I sometimes wonder how many murders have been committed - especially in the days before modern forensics - which were never detected.
The doctor, attorney, daughter relationships seem to have served as reinforcements for the crime.
Am wondering if you are not do a throughly good investigation of Marshal Halls career. Lol. Was there any cases he defended that he lost? Am confident that you would know as thorough a researcher you are.
Thank you by the way, for taking the time to produce these tantalizing cases.
God bless
Quite a few. Marshall Hall defended Seddon in 1912, Smith (Brides in the bath) in 1915 and William Thomas Gray in 1920. He lost in all cases and these murderers were hanged. MH thought Gray guilty.
Play this at 0.75 speed, and it sounds like Alfred Hitchcock.
He got away with murder with the help of a 'great lawyer', who helped other criminals get away, too. i In Athens, our capital city, there is a 'great lawyer' like your Marshal Hall. They say that he himself got away with 'the accident' that killed his first wife.
Season Greetings to you!
Marshal Hall in a courtroom is like Pro Basketball player in a grade school pickup game. It just isn’t fair to the opposition.
Love the simile and chosen metaphor!
The bright spot here is that Greenwood never paid Marshall Hall all of his fees...
Not quite, he didn't pay refreshers for Sundays as they didn't work on a Sunday.
I’m binging! Ned more uploads, these are fantastic!
Glad you like them! Thanks!
I have to wonder what woman would even consider a proposal from this character?, He tired of his wife, and wanted a newer model perhaps? This geezer takes the cake! These stories are absolutely my cup of tea and as a result I am totally hung up on watching all I can of these lurid murders and on a serious note, I love your narration, sketches and thorough thoughtfulness of the whole picture where the authorities dropped the ball and also the legal proceedings. Thank you for posting such interesting cases.
I don't believe he tired of her so much as he wanted full reign of all her money. She may well have finally said something of him gambling and spending HER money on his girlfriends and this signed her death warrant.
So much to admire about your channel! You really know how to capture a bygone era with painstaking research, wonderfully measured narration, and just an overall elegant production! Many thanks, a new subscriber from New Mexico : )
Many thanks indeed - so glad you like it!
If the Greenwoods lived across the street from the doctor and sister, why couldn't the doctor's sister sneak into the house and poison Mrs. Greenwood? That wouldn't be a first time for something like this to happen.
It's theoretically possible, of course, but the objections to this would be - 1) it would constitute a considerable risk for her to do so; 2) there was no evidence whatsoever that she had been in the house in the days prior to the poisoning.
I suspect the gooseberry tart was the vehicle.
If it was "beyond a reasonable doubt", the jury was totally incompetent. :-)
Absolutely correct verdict.
From what it seams, the daughter didn't want to loose both her parents. I'm almost sure that Hall convinced her to admit to that.
These stories and the voice of the narrator make for compulsive listening, thank you for posting the stories
Maybe Father and Daughter were in on poisoning together. Motive, MONEY. With an incompetent doctor that may have been paid off to.
An interesting case. I've listened to it a few times.
Have you thought of doing a case on Lt Hubert Chevis, the poisoned partridge case?
Another great contribution ! Unbelievable it's all the work of one man. Thanks so much.
Very well written and spoken by Mr Maguire...an excellent summing up of a very 'tricky' trial...'
This reminds me so much of the Dandelion Dead story, but that guy did not get away with it. I love your channel!
Is it possible that having such a childish and selfish boy for a father; and a weak, enabling, yet very rich woman for a mother would be motive enough for Irene. The wine bottle plus my cynicism in the species makes me think it's possible.
Scenario 1- She's telling the truth. Wine bottle was not the manner of poisoning. Heavily points towards Harold poisoning via different means.
Scenario 2- She's lying. To protect 1 of 2 people, her father in this instance. I can empathize with lying to protect your surviving parent as much as I can with either selfishly or selflessly telling the truth. Try not to be judgmental in those regards when I can manage it.
Scenario 3- She's lying. To protect 1 of 2 people, herself now. Saying she drank from the vector of poisoning all but dragonpunches the murder weapon out of existence. If her father had nothing to do with it, he wouldn't think much of his suspicious behavior (murderer or not, wife murdered or not, he didn't seem bothered regardless.) And it was his behavior that ultimately got her body exhumed. Irene [could] have easily been just as aware of the doc's incompetence, or even been his collaborator. Possible no?
Scenario 4- She's lying. They conspired. Just gross if true. However unlikeliest I should think.
I just found the notion intriguing. To partially frame the perfect patsy, insert yourself, or in this instance to already have a unique position of almost no suspicion. To be able to offer just enough disinformation to poke holes seemingly at random, however strategic and not exactly falsifiable, benefiting only the killer. As opposed to an orgy of evidence approach most frame ups seemingly have.
His petulance and impetuousness made him the perfect candidate. But it also contradicts even attempting to slowly poison your wife to death. Continue doing what you want when you want or club her brains in. Shoot her, stab her, strangle her. Hide her.
Poisoning someone slowly, then expediting things when given the opportunity to do so and blame someone else seems a bit more in line with a female sociopath. And if you accept that Irene was this, then her lying about the wine to benefit both the 'real' and 'assumed' killer makes perfect sense. It may seem counter-intuitive, even more so from 'especially predictable personalities', but I think it could be interpreted as bona fides genius.
Is it possible to both sympathize with a young woman that "may" have had a supremely selfish, deadbeat, cheapdick for a father that took her mother from her and her siblings. Financially ruined the family. That continues to be victimized by an insignificant cretin on the interwebs that would dare insinuate anything else.
While simultaneously (and contrarily) admiring a young woman that "may" have murdered her mother. Not only for her cleverness, but her ruthless restraint, or implied temperance and patience. You really do have to make few leaps and stretch a bit to realistically suspect her though. She just stood out to me. Almost the complete polar opposite of her old man, as far as that fear of death manifested. Which reminds me I'm like 70 minutes closer to my own grave now. God bless.
just checking ..."fifthly "and "sixthly "?.......
Yes! It is a little clumsy - but grammatically correct! Once you get past "fourthly" it starts to sound odd - I'm glad there weren't eleven points, or "eleventhly" would have run me into serious trouble!!
It’s amazing that Marshall Hall was so good that he got so many murderers off!
Such sad eyes, not a happy woman. She knew what her husband was like, but in those days for a woman to divorce her husband was tantamount to being a leper. Poor lady was stuck in a dreadful situation. Very good vid, enjoyed it.
Thank you!