I'll add my two cents here aswell: - If you only were skiing slopes so far, look for sections that have no big deviations from the slopes terrain and try skiing there. It's close to how some of the often done tours will feel skiing wise. If you're lucky, you'll even get some nice pow turns. - There is nothing wrong with taking a ski teacher or guide for half a day or a day to brush up or learn how to ski in deep snow or steeps. - To get into touring, some organisations/guiding companies have test weekends where you can use rented gear. This is a good option to feel out if you like it. - Do avalanche courses! I personally do also one or two every couple years, just to brush up on things and maybe certain techniques have changed due to new science or changing tech etc. - actively look for opportunities to do some tours / skiing with other people. Those opportunities don't just come by themselves... Maybe local ski schools or clubs do tours or guides with a group etc.
Also, very important: start easy and build up slowly. You may be a good skier and love all those crazy freeride videos doing the steep stuff. But there is a lot of safety to be had in skiing lower angle terrain without sacrificing much of the fun.
Great Video! What I'll add for my fellow North American skiiers (just in case it's helpful and i'm not the only one, lol): - if you're in the states, avalanche and crevasse rescue training can be taken with any of your local mountain clubs. I'm in the Pacific Northwest and have taken AIARE 1 with The Mountaineers, some friends have done so with the American Alpine club, etc. Crevasse rescue was part of my mountaineering course - there are some resorts out here (Whistler, Snoqualmie pass) that do have "uphill travel" zones if you want to get some practice walking with your skis. - Dave commented below about backcountry tour difficulty. Using the North American system, I"ve often seen tours that recommend high level blue/black diamond level skiing. YMMV depending on the guide Thanks for this video! I'm just poking into touring myself
Was literally about to request a video like this in the comments section of your previous! As an experienced resort/inbound sidecountry skiier (UK based so can't be in the Alps all the time) looking to get into touring and backcountry over the next few winters it was super useful starting point. Two questions really: 1) a follow up to this specifically about gear would be useful - i.e. what you should be buying vs renting during those 3 days' training and your first few tours/guided days? E.g. for me, I bought hybrid AT boots last winter with this transition in mind, but is it just worth renting touring skis/skins/avvy gear for first few days before purchasing anything? Or is there stuff you'd reccomend to just own yourself regardless? And 2) after those initial 3 courses, I assume you'd recommend at least a couple of guide-accompanied days out before any self-planned activity w/ experienced friends? Without cannibalising your 'tour planning' course content would be good to get a sense of how you'd go about planning those first few backcountry days! Thanks again for the vid!
Could anybody give me advice on what insurance to get when skiing offpiste on the Alps?. I´ve heard of Air Glaciers but I believe they only cover the rescue part, not medical expenses not rehab if needed... I´ve also heard the common insurance companies do not cover offpiste terrain over certain altitude, most they do not cover it at all... Any clues?
Thanks for the effort put into making this. Regarding the training: Perhaps an option to make a multi-day course that covers the 3 stages (maybe 4 if you include crevasse rescue?) so you can learn it all together with some momentum and clearly remembering the course content from the previous day? It would make it easier for me for example not living in Mountain areas to attend a 3-4 day course down to Chamonix to take the full course prospectus than to try and line up several individual moments. And It's a nice upsell business wise ;)
Hi Dave, great video. I would like to ask if you use the same techiniques for belaying someone when you want to keep someone safe when crossing a risky traverse. You once started with ski mountaneering techniques using th erad line system but it would be nice to keep that series by teaching different ways of building an anchor, for example. Just giving you ideas... BTW, what happened to your Ronin skis? They seemed awesome but I do not see you skiing on them that often.
Would you choose 30+ years of experience, real time in avalanche terrain and 50+ days a year in the mountains or 3-5 years of knowledge with some experience smattered in.
That’s an interesting question that I feel is loaded in some way. When you say choose what do you mean? Choose which one of those two people to ski with or choose the best pathway? They seem like different pathways from a social economic perspective. Perhaps the person doing the learning is substituting the experience because of lack of access? I think the ideal pathway is learn first then gain experience, then go back to learning to then gain more experience until you can get to a point where you are self managing your learning. Getting 30 years of experience with zero learning is risky imo.
@ I ask because ive spent almost 40 years in the mountains. I’ve been around people who have and are highly trained. I’ve learned a lot from them. I’ve spent substantial time as a lift mechanic at crystal mountain in Washington. As well as Baker. I’ve never had any formal training. But would test my knowledge, experience and common sense against anyone aside from a highly trained pro such as yourself. You are the benchmark I now look to. I see so many who have 3,4,5 years of experience spending maybe 20-30 days a year in the mountains. Maybe they’ve done a few courses and they cast shade as though they know all yet make horrible choices in the backcountry. I guess my question isn’t loaded, but more pointed at which would you choose if you had to make a choice?
And to expand it’s just a curiosity not a point of contention. Everyone needs training. We can all learn. But sometimes I think people get a false sense of security in a few courses and think they can take on the world. That’s all.
I totally agree a lot of people come out of courses feeling invincible. I would encourage those people to really question that feeling. Taking a course sets you up well but there is no substitute for actual experience and learning from more experienced people which is the best way to learn.
@ I respect your reply. And I look up to your skillsets and envy those who have the privilege of spending time with you, by your side and learning from you. Thank you for entertaining my questions.
I'll add my two cents here aswell:
- If you only were skiing slopes so far, look for sections that have no big deviations from the slopes terrain and try skiing there. It's close to how some of the often done tours will feel skiing wise. If you're lucky, you'll even get some nice pow turns.
- There is nothing wrong with taking a ski teacher or guide for half a day or a day to brush up or learn how to ski in deep snow or steeps.
- To get into touring, some organisations/guiding companies have test weekends where you can use rented gear. This is a good option to feel out if you like it.
- Do avalanche courses! I personally do also one or two every couple years, just to brush up on things and maybe certain techniques have changed due to new science or changing tech etc.
- actively look for opportunities to do some tours / skiing with other people. Those opportunities don't just come by themselves... Maybe local ski schools or clubs do tours or guides with a group etc.
Also, very important: start easy and build up slowly. You may be a good skier and love all those crazy freeride videos doing the steep stuff. But there is a lot of safety to be had in skiing lower angle terrain without sacrificing much of the fun.
What are you using now that Fatmap sadly has closed?
Whympr but Fatmap was still better imo
Strava
Contours is a good replacement
Google earth
Onxbackcountry is not as refined as FATMAP but it’s pretty close.
Great Video!
What I'll add for my fellow North American skiiers (just in case it's helpful and i'm not the only one, lol):
- if you're in the states, avalanche and crevasse rescue training can be taken with any of your local mountain clubs. I'm in the Pacific Northwest and have taken AIARE 1 with The Mountaineers, some friends have done so with the American Alpine club, etc. Crevasse rescue was part of my mountaineering course
- there are some resorts out here (Whistler, Snoqualmie pass) that do have "uphill travel" zones if you want to get some practice walking with your skis.
- Dave commented below about backcountry tour difficulty. Using the North American system, I"ve often seen tours that recommend high level blue/black diamond level skiing. YMMV depending on the guide
Thanks for this video! I'm just poking into touring myself
Useful!
I appreciate this take, incredibly helpful, cheers!
Never done anything but slope / piste skiing. This looks great.
Also, hi from Reddit !
Hi!
Was literally about to request a video like this in the comments section of your previous! As an experienced resort/inbound sidecountry skiier (UK based so can't be in the Alps all the time) looking to get into touring and backcountry over the next few winters it was super useful starting point.
Two questions really: 1) a follow up to this specifically about gear would be useful - i.e. what you should be buying vs renting during those 3 days' training and your first few tours/guided days? E.g. for me, I bought hybrid AT boots last winter with this transition in mind, but is it just worth renting touring skis/skins/avvy gear for first few days before purchasing anything? Or is there stuff you'd reccomend to just own yourself regardless?
And 2) after those initial 3 courses, I assume you'd recommend at least a couple of guide-accompanied days out before any self-planned activity w/ experienced friends? Without cannibalising your 'tour planning' course content would be good to get a sense of how you'd go about planning those first few backcountry days!
Thanks again for the vid!
very good explanation
Very nice vid!
Glad you enjoyed it
Could anybody give me advice on what insurance to get when skiing offpiste on the Alps?. I´ve heard of Air Glaciers but I believe they only cover the rescue part, not medical expenses not rehab if needed... I´ve also heard the common insurance companies do not cover offpiste terrain over certain altitude, most they do not cover it at all... Any clues?
Thanks for the effort put into making this. Regarding the training: Perhaps an option to make a multi-day course that covers the 3 stages (maybe 4 if you include crevasse rescue?) so you can learn it all together with some momentum and clearly remembering the course content from the previous day? It would make it easier for me for example not living in Mountain areas to attend a 3-4 day course down to Chamonix to take the full course prospectus than to try and line up several individual moments. And It's a nice upsell business wise ;)
Ive conveniently ran all three avi courses on consecutive days! But you are right it would make sense to have one bigger course.
This is great!
✌️
Hi Dave, great video. I would like to ask if you use the same techiniques for belaying someone when you want to keep someone safe when crossing a risky traverse. You once started with ski mountaneering techniques using th erad line system but it would be nice to keep that series by teaching different ways of building an anchor, for example. Just giving you ideas...
BTW, what happened to your Ronin skis? They seemed awesome but I do not see you skiing on them that often.
How good at on-piste do you need to be to consider trying off-piste?
I’d say European reds should feel comfortable to try some mellow off piste. The better you are on steep blacks and bump runs the easier it will be!
@DaveSearle thanks!
Great video. What skis do you use this season
I’m using faction skis this winter! Had so much fun on them at the end of last winter.
I thought about buying the agent 3. Have you skied it and what do you think abiut it
@davidrutishauser6131 that was my favourite ski from last season. It would be my choice for a 1 ski quiver!
Would you choose 30+ years of experience, real time in avalanche terrain and 50+ days a year in the mountains or 3-5 years of knowledge with some experience smattered in.
That’s an interesting question that I feel is loaded in some way. When you say choose what do you mean? Choose which one of those two people to ski with or choose the best pathway? They seem like different pathways from a social economic perspective. Perhaps the person doing the learning is substituting the experience because of lack of access? I think the ideal pathway is learn first then gain experience, then go back to learning to then gain more experience until you can get to a point where you are self managing your learning. Getting 30 years of experience with zero learning is risky imo.
@ I ask because ive spent almost 40 years in the mountains. I’ve been around people who have and are highly trained. I’ve learned a lot from them. I’ve spent substantial time as a lift mechanic at crystal mountain in Washington. As well as Baker. I’ve never had any formal training. But would test my knowledge, experience and common sense against anyone aside from a highly trained pro such as yourself. You are the benchmark I now look to. I see so many who have 3,4,5 years of experience spending maybe 20-30 days a year in the mountains. Maybe they’ve done a few courses and they cast shade as though they know all yet make horrible choices in the backcountry. I guess my question isn’t loaded, but more pointed at which would you choose if you had to make a choice?
And to expand it’s just a curiosity not a point of contention. Everyone needs training. We can all learn. But sometimes I think people get a false sense of security in a few courses and think they can take on the world. That’s all.
I totally agree a lot of people come out of courses feeling invincible. I would encourage those people to really question that feeling. Taking a course sets you up well but there is no substitute for actual experience and learning from more experienced people which is the best way to learn.
@ I respect your reply. And I look up to your skillsets and envy those who have the privilege of spending time with you, by your side and learning from you. Thank you for entertaining my questions.