2004 Ford F-150 5.4L Stall-No Start P0191 Fuel Rail Psi Sensor P1233 Fuel Pump Driver Module Offline
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- 04 ford f150 with a 5.4liter engine, customer complaint is that the veh stalls when it gets hot and will not restart until it cools, the veh already had a fuel pump replaced and the fuel rail pressure sensor replaced and it did not fix it, there are some troubles codes stored related to fuel, in this video I will show you how to identify a fuel starvation issue using the scantool/scandata (if applicable) and how to perform a bypass test using a jumper wire, I hope you enjoy this video and thanks for watching
Thanks for the video, I just wanted to share my experience quick. I replaced the fuel pump and then replaced this module you tested and my truck still didn't work. After watching this video I seen that you had a ground issue so I checked my connector and didnt have continuity to to ground on any of the pins on the connector. So I opened up the wiring harness and found a broken bare ground connection inside the harness about 6 inches back. It was a shielded ground wire that Ford spliced to and ground strap near the module. After fixing the harness and then plugging it back into the new module it still didnt work. This time it was my error because you have to push the connector very hard into the module to get it to work. Now everything works again. Thanks for the video about the ground issue.
Having this same exact issue, gonna see if this works
I found the same exact BARE shielded wire, any ideas on it? I believe it's for the "pulsed" ground of the FPDM/Fuel Sender. What is the end closest to the sender harness hooked too? Mine was just laying inside the wire loom wrapped around the Pnk/blk wire and the Brn/wht (Sender positive and negative from FPDM)
@@dieseldabz7104 check continuity from that bare wire to ground. If nothing, keep cutting back the wire loom until you find the break.
@@drbuyi I have continuity! I have even swapped another chassis harness into the truck against my better judgement and guess what? Exact same issue. It isn't the harness, module, or pump. This is the first truck that has me stumped in a long time tbh.
@@dieseldabz7104 do you have 12 volt at the module with the key on? Make sure the plug is pushed very hard into that module. (Very hard push) I thought mine was seated all the way but it wasnt. If you have 12 volts and ground at the module plug you should be getting power to the pump. You could try flipping the horn relay for the fuel pump relay and see if that does anything for easy test. Good luck
Great vid. Nice to see someone diagnosing a problem, instead of loading the parts cannon.
Yeah
Like so many do unfortunately
Just had this happen on my 05. I heard from other owners of what would cause it . Ran truck through a car wash and truck was stalling and sputtering after and would keep shutting off. Went right to the fuel pump driver module and that was the issue. I could see a hole in it and a ton of corrosion. Ran to auto parts store. Picked a new one up for less than 200. Swapped it out and bingo.. truck started right up and so far I have had no issues since. No scan tool needed. No point in trying other things when you can clearly see a hole in the module and corrosion. Don't waste your time. Swap it out. That more than likely is the problem. That definitely will cause a stalling issue and act like your out of gas.
If you have this issue and need to drive your truck, unplug the Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor on the drivers side fuel rail. This makes the pump default to around 20% duty cycle. While driving it will go up close to about 30% as it reads the signals from the MAF and TPS, but it does not seem to go higher. This modulates the pump so it is not running constantly and makes the vehicle very drive-able. The only issue I have found driving mine like this is a lack of top end power when towing. This makes sense as the truck would be starving for fuel at that point.
I hope this helps anyone that is stuck and needs a temporary fix.
The bypass test was a great visual for us and wow, that was the ugliest module I've ever seen. Great work.
I love the by pass test when ever it can be used, that module was so bad, lol
What excellent diagnostics by the part swapper. :P The P1233 leads you directly to the module as the first item to check. That module is definitely Fubar. Loved the bypass test to prove your point man. Awesome video once again
the shop that looked at it before only had a generic scantool, basically a code reader only and the only fault they could see was the p0191 fuel rail pressure sensor fault, not really defending them but they were very limited, thank you for your support!!
Definitely need the right tools to do the job. But this is also the sort of thing that pisses customers off and gives the industry a bad name. A bit of testing and some research (wiring diagram) would have proved that the sensor and pump weren't at fault. I understand the previous shop doesn't have the skills or tools for this and will eventually see them fail as a business which is unfortunate for the industry.
They won't fail. They just call me in. Lol. I definitely understand what you mean
Kirk Abrahamson waste of time the scanner was the tipoff what a joke I am a doctor and love to work on cars even I would have look at that first. we
Nothing like a visual inspection & simple bypass check to nail it. The FPDM location needs to be changed by the manufacturers or the need to provide better protection...maybe they need some engineers with less of an engineering degree and more of a common sense degree. Nice quick diagnosis.
yeah common sense to not put a module out in the open so it can be destroyed
Positive Lead Diagnostics Thanks Tom
FPDM has 4 Wires; 1st to Instrument Cluster for Fuel Level? 2nd 3rd for Pump running; Power and Ground? 4th; what is that for?
I am an experienced mechanic but still stumped.
I have a 2007 f250 super duty that starts when it wants. Sometimes will start then starts running slow then stops and fuel pressure is zero.
I have cycled the key on and seen 70 PSI pressure, starts right up idols fine and as watched the fuel pressure goes from 70 to zero in about 5 seconds and dies.
Other times it runs a week with no issues.
On the no start condition there is only a few pounds to no fuel pressure. Leave the truck sit a day or an hour sometimes it starts right up. Might drive it everyday for a week and no problems. Might sit for for 5 minutes or next day and no start.
Problem is it will not stay in the no start condition so I can diagnose.
Replaced the fuel pump module and it started right up so I thought it was fixed. Next day no start even with the new FP Module. Threw a fuel rail switch on too. Still acts up when it wants.
Cycle key on and can hear the pump for a second but it sounds week most of the time. Sometimes a key cycle will give a strong fuel pump sound and the truck then starts.
Sometimes the key cycle will only boost the pressure a few pounds and will not start. Then it gets a streak where the pump sounds strong again and starts right up.
I'm not sure if I should put a fuel pump in or the Engine PCM is telling the pump to misbehave.
I think fuel pressure is regulated by the ground the module sends to the pump? If I provide a full ground to the pump when it won't start and it starts will it prove anything like the PCM is faulty?
I removed , and cleaned grounds to the FP Module and tank. Unplugged and inspected wire plugs I could see. I'm in the rust belt so bad contact is possible but I don't see it.
I hope it's the pump but wondering if it is the PCM providing weak ground at times?
Thanks for any help.
I would be doing my testing at the top of the fuel pump. Power and ground from the module and checking the wiring between the module and pump. If those checks are good maybe a failing fuel pump. Any codes stored for no comm with pump module?
Good vid bro my truck doing the same thing going to get a new module i changed it 4 years ago but I think it went bad I just changed the fuel pump and the rail pressure sensor but it's doing the same thing as the truck in you vid has 49 psi at start up then it warms up and drops slowly till it stalls
Dude!!! Great info brother. Thank you. I am going to go change my module and rail pressure sensor rite now. Again appreciate you
Love this one a lot...
known issue on this models and ford I believe has a kit for it now..
I was gonna start looking into the bypass test but i was under the impression that it needed a pulse ground and was afraid to send full ground...
Your vid just answer my question...Thanks
Oh yea no matter where they put it they still fail..,Mkt,mks and taurus.
Had same problem, got it changed, months later exact same issue, got another new one and had same problem ended up being that Ground wire. Not a fan of fuel pump control systems
Probably a really good vid(based on comments) but i watched it several times and never really understood the "bypass test" whereby you got the vehicle to run without the FPDmodule-so many youtube "diy" vids miss the small but incredibly significant details!
Great job 👍 I'm kinda know what's going on on my truck same problem
Thanks Tom for all your hard work and your channel and a big shout out to scanner danner for advertising your channel. I watch yours and his channel every day in free time and love the knowledge you guys share. im,a professional technician that always is willing to learn if i meet a tech that says i know it all i stay away. thanks again and i will keep supporting your channel
Nice ! Who would think of putting in a fuel pump after seeing that module in the condition it was in ? LOL !
I don't think they knew about the module
Having ALL same issues and already replaced the FPDM and FRP sensor as needed. It ran for a day then wouldn't start. I found a bad ground between the module and pump and it fixed it and ran great. It sat parked outside at the shop for a couple weeks and now it won't start again. Jumping FPDM does nothing which tells me there's no issues between there and pump/sender itself. I can also HEAR the pump but have ZERO fuel pressure and it only started off starting fluid
Did you ever find the fix? Mine is doing the same thing
Hey man! I've got my daughters 05 Ford 500 with the same code and the exact same symptoms.
It shows about 10 PSI on Fuel Pressure as well. When I can get it to run it goes to 13 PSI.
The only way I can get it running at all is to hold it on the floor.
Ironically it will crank without hesitation and idle perfectly with the fuel line from the pump disconnected from the rail until it burns the fuel out of the rail of course.
I also have 02 sensors bank 1 and 2 stuck biased rich codes p2196 and p2198.
buen. trabajo. amigo. mi. respeto. Para amigo
A great vid. my friend! That truck looked like one of Eric O:s rust bucket's Best of luck pal.
thanks!! yeah in PA you will definitely find some rust buckets lol
You always this much fun?
Extremely Helpful. Thank you so much. Great content 👌
I have same code on 2008 f150 5.4 it bearly goes 40mph lack of power idles good tho. Do you think this can be the issue?
Wow the state of that module!! Nice Diag Tom!
I know!! what a bad location, thanks for watching
Damn, that module is destroyed. Nice work with the sweet bypass test! Thanks for sharing.
love the by pass test, thanks for watching!!
My 2008 F-150's Check Engine light came on and I was worried. I went to Pep Boys and the Code was P-0191. I looked it up on-line and saw that there could be 2 issues- the Fuel Pressure Sensor and the Fuel Pump Drive Module. UA-cam showed me that changing both out was easy so I ordered them from Rock Auto. The BOSCH FPS was $34.99 and the DORMAN FPDM was $56.79. I swapped them both out in about 2 hours- I know, I'm SLOW! My occupation is Financial Analyst, NOT mechanic. But they were both EASY! Don't go to a garage and pay over $1000 (from what I've read on-line) to fix this P-0191 code, YOU CAN DO IT YOURSELF...!
Does the PCM/FPDM cause the fuel pump to not activate if the fuel rail pressure detected is high or non-sensical? Earlier in the week my car (05 Crown Vic) had a few long/rough starts which I think was caused by recently filling the gas tank with winter blend a day before it was "unseasonably warm" (pending P0191 but CEL never illuminated) . What kind of reading would the pressure sensor output if the line was vapor locked?
Very good explanation and well explained
Good video you can tell scanner tot u well
yes he did, his class was my favorite class when I was at rosedale
you should ve checked the module ground ;)
I agree with Hayward . Putting the fpdm Outside the truck on the frame makes it one of the most failed Ford components I've ever come across !
yes that is a bad location!
Ya gotta wonder what engineers are thinking....or smoking..
That’s why when I replaced mine I wrapped in thick plastic first so hopefully keep the weather out. Might help!
No worse than the complete wiring harness being outside under the driver's door. Wtf was Ford thinking..
@@shawnt8891 NOT smart of you, all that will accomplish is trapping in any moisture and STILL rot it to shit
Nice work! Was there something on the diagram that told you it was a pulsed ground, or did you happen to know that from experience, or contained in a system description and operation write-up you read off-camera?
thanks Ron, well I know that a fuel pump needs a power and a ground to run, and I knew it was a variable speed pump, so actually off camera when I back probed the ground side I wanted to see what my voltage reading was, so with the key on connected on the ground I read 12v, that tells me the module supplies the 12v all the time and the pump needs a ground therefore it is ground side switched, a little bit of experience goes with it too, knowing other systems that use basically the same design, but ultimately just some voltage checks can quickly identify design
so i went to check out a ford e150 and the guy said it had the code p093 fuel rail pressure sensor a circuit. MIL light was on. he said he changed the rail pressure sensor but the code still comes back on. I noticed with key on the pump will constantly run.also i notice there was a GND wire connected to the 12V wire to the pump. do you think it's the module?
My driver was way worse than that and had no issues. The only reason I checked, was a friend of mine told me about these issues. I honestly don't know how mine was staying on the cross member 😅😂
Hey, I have a 2006 mercury monterey , 87k miles on it. out of nowhere beginning to stall. battery is fine , engine stalls , steering gets tight and breaks freeze up a bit. any help would be appreciated ? Local mechanic couldn’t find anything , he cleaned throttle body, and replace idle air control valve .
thank you, gonna try the bypass test, neat trick i didnt know about, hopefully that tells me my issue, i replaced the fpdm with a dorman one and im thinking the dorman replacement is faulty
Was it faulty? I have a p0191 code and it stalls at high rpm’s and stalls when I’m at idle when it’s hot.
I replaced mine with a dorman one as well and it’s been a year since I replaced it
@@cameronw329 it was, I had 2 back to back that were faulty so I broke down and got an oem ford one and didn't have another issue
I have one of these trucks in the middle of the jungle in Guatemala and have been fighting fuel pump issues for 3 months now with no success. I managed to get a hold of a brand new fuel pump module but either it's not grounding correctly or it's not receiving commands from the computer. I use jumper wires on the connector pin two to five and three to four like you say in the video and the truck starts and runs. I left it in there and tried to drive down the street but after 2 or 3 times maybe 10 minutes total running the brand new Bosch fuel pump burnt out. Is it safe to assume that the fuel pump was under too much stress because there is no return line? Is there no way to Jimmy rig this thing to work? I'm on dirt roads in the middle of the jungle maybe 15 mile per hour max speed, I'm just looking for a way to make it start.
I have the same 04 f150 Triton 5.4 3V. It stalls at every red light, unless I keep 1 foot on accelerator & other on brakes. I have a P0193. Do i just simply change out fuel rail pressure sensor? Or check and or change the module?
Did you change that part?
@@OneworldKW Sorry for responding so late.....I took it to a shop it sat for 7 days so I picked it up. Took it home started removing throttle body, valve covers, fan, crankshaft, timing chain cover, and heads. The problem was the #5 cylinder on bank 2 (under your power steering reservoir). The valve spring broke but thank God in heaven the valve didnt get knocked up & thru the block, it was literally just sitting in their. So I replace spring and had the other valves checked. Now it runs like a champ! Ofcourse I replaced camphraser & tensioners and guides. 5.4 3v are sensitive engines. Especially when you buying it from someone else. Changing oil 5w20 regularly is critical on these engines.
@@bryantmention6898 that's a lot of work you've done...Hopefully i can do the timing and phaser in due time. However, Ford specify 5w20 so it can pass the EPA rating. It has been proven by owners/mechanics that 5w30 synthetic is best 'cause of the small oil ports in the engine
I took test light to the brown n white wire on the fpdm and got a reading from it
Ok so I have a 08 f150 with the 5.4. Iv put a new fuel rail pressure sensor in it and every time I plug it in it kills the truck but if I unplug it the truck runs but runs very rough at idle. Please help.
I have the same issue but only when i put it in reverse, I changed the FPDM and still doing the same thing🤷🏻♂️
I also have an 07 F150 with the 5.4 3V Triton. I have 2 lean codes P0171 and P0174 along with the fuel rail pressure code P0191. I changed the fuel filter because it was due, my FPDM was also old so I changed it. I'm still getting those same codes. The truck starts and runs well at idle. It hesitates during acceleration but gets up to highway speeds and will hesitate again if I try to pass. I'm trying to figure out if it's the fuel rail pressure sensor itself or the fuel pump causing it all.
I would be looking at fuel pressure. Maybe the pump is failing
Will do, thanks.
I had an interesting issue. I had a P0191 code and my fuel gauge (needle) kept rising. Cant figure that one out.
Great video, but not very helpful unless you have an expensive scan tool. How do you check the sensor return voltage? I can check the 5VDC & ground to the connector but to check the output to the trucks computer it needs to be plugged in - no way to check that without cutting into the wire. Same with the Drive module. I can verify 12VDC to it and the ground - again helpful but can not check the output ground from the Module with the connector on. Someone needs to make adapter harness that connects between the sensor/module and allows easy test points.
You can backprobe the connectors and use a voltmeter but it will only show you an average.
Don't be so cheap, Multimeters aren't expensive fella and any real mechanic SHOULD have one.
excellent diagnostics thanks
thanks Mark!!
Thank you
really enjoyed the video
where did you go to school
thanks! I went to rosedale technical college
Positive Lead Diagnostics scanner Danner protégé huh
Absolutely. My favorite class
Hey Tommy, did the FPDM control ground remained zero something after you bypassed it to another ground with KOER?
The module wasn’t grounding (pwm) the pump when it would get hot. I was manually grounding it which was a full ground causing the pump to run at full speed
Hey Tom, silly question but what would it hurt to just leave it bypassed? Poor mpg? Fuel pump failure? Just curious, thanks in advance.
When you bypass it. Your turning the pump on 100% all the time. Probably would prematurely wear out the fuel pump and probably see a fuel mileage decrease.
Nice good knowledge how do you know o how you can find on the diagrams when a madule recibe ground o power thanks
Depends on the component. In this case I just took a voltage on the fuel pump ground reading with the key on and I had 12v. That tells me that the module supplies the 12v feed all the time and controls the ground to vary the pump speed. Looking on this wiring diagram you wouldn't be able to figure that out. It's different when looking at other components on a wiring diagram like switches or solenoids. But basically you just follow the wires back to the source. If one wire goes to a fuse then it's ground side switched. If one wire goes to a ground then it's power side switched. If both wires go to a module then you need to take a voltage reading to figure out the design like I did in this video.
Hahahaha..I remember that lesson on Paul's videos...
That lesson is priceless.
Hello.. were r u connecting the other leads for the bypass test or they to the battery thanks
One lead going straight to ground on the frame. The other lead is connected to the fuel pump ground side control wire on the module
Hey there, I own a 2007 Ford F-150 and am having the same problems ... I’ve already changed out the driver module and am still having the same issues.
Any suggestions ?!?
is it a no start condition or does it run and shut off? I would start by looking into fuel pressure looking at scandata
Positive Lead Diagnostics .... it doesn't run at all, stalled out while I was driving and haven't been able to fire up since, have crank.
What are you missing? Fuel,spark, or compression? You already replaced the fpdm? Was that based on any faults stored or tests you did?
Positive Lead Diagnostics ... believe in missing the fuel to my equation. replacing the module was only by visual. was in bad shape. my friend is coming by tomorrow with a better diagnostic checker.
the fuel pressure sensor measures fuel pressure at the nozzle
intake manifold as a vacuum of 16 PSI
Were to hookup fuel tester
Nice fix !!
thank you!
Where is the 1st gen location
bestttt vd
Hit the easy button on that one lol
It’s almost always the module
Not always
I changed 2 brand new modules, thinking the 1st was faulty from warehouse. Still not working and in process of isolating the problem
Fuel pump module? Those never go bad.
These truck are absolute piles