Streaming vs. Blu-ray Disc for 4K HDR & Dolby Atmos Quality | Is Streaming Really That Bad?
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- Опубліковано 19 бер 2023
- I am showing several 4K HDR Dolby Atmos major movie releases from physical media Blu-ray ripped to main movie MKV-files and comparing the actual video and audio bit rates to what we get when streaming from the likes of Apple iTunes, Disney+, HBO Max, and others. We know physical media and Kaleidescape downloads are superior to streaming, but really just by how much? Some pundits and marketing would have you believe the gap is very wide, but is it really... Thank you for doing all the regular UA-cam stuff (like, subscribe, comment, share, and enable notifications) and for supporting the channel!
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#hometheater #homecinema #bluray - Наука та технологія
I've been streaming for years and recently went back to watching on disc. The biggest surprise for me was the improved sound, what a difference.
The picture is so much smoother. Even normal blu rays of recent releases look better than a 4k stream on disney plus.
Had bad connection before? 😂
For the regular person with average gear( streaming is fine) but for people with high quality audio and video gear, that 3x video and 5x audio makes a difference.
Yep!
Basically 95% of population does fine without it. This why even in 2024 dvds are still selling.
I have always been of the opinion (based on my experience) that the most tangible differences felt in Streaming vs Physical Media was the Audio. Not only fidelity, but also in dynamics and volumes. The Video differences are mostly seen in the harder renderings of dark type scenery.
Yes!
Well said
Which is odd, because extremely high quality audio isn't an issue with today's compression codecs
@drmedwuast Like which codecs? No lossy compression can do extremely high-quality audio. At best, it's high quality; at worst, quite appalling.
Yes to everything you said. As a horror enthusiast however, it's quite apparent how much better the video is on disc by comparison. Audio wise? There is no comparison. It's simply grossly inferior streaming. If you're just playing out of TV speakers it won't matter, but those with actual home theater setups, or even more exotic audio solutions will seriously notice it.
If we are going purely on bitrates, while these may be better than in the past, 3x and 5x better is still an enormous difference. That being said I think it's very hard to judge "x times better" just on bitrates alone. I don't know what differences if any there are in compression algorithms but it's certainly plausible that streaming compression is more efficient. Even more importantly and much harder to evaluate is the perceived quality differences. Perhaps disc bitrates reach a point of diminishing returns. Opinions are all over the place but the general trends I see are that video differences are much harder to discern nowadays while there remains a significant disparity in audio IF you have capable equipment. I would tend to agree with this. On my 77" OLED I find it very difficult to differentiate video quality but on our 120" screen with an NZ7 sitting at 8.5" there are definitely differences but I would not label as 3x better for disc. It's often more subtle. For me the bigger difference is audio with more dynamics, channel separation, and bass. But is it 5x better? I don't think so. I guess one take away from the bitrates is that there is a larger disparity with audio vs video so regardless of the actual absolute numbers people do seem to appreciate that subjectively. For the record I prefer physical media and rip everything to a Plex server but if the perceivable quality reaches parity I'd be happy to stop buying and ripping discs.
I feel the bit rate comparisons are plausible because everything fundamentally uses the same compression schemas. The encodings are equitable. If anything, I would presume that if streaming might be more efficient, it would be so at better relative quality, which puts the on-screen results even closer than the pure numbers would relate.
The whole thesis of the video is that 3x/5x is a massively smaller gap than the 20x or more that formerly existed or that you still people and marketing reference. And the gap should continue to close.
Thanks for the thoughtful comment! I agree that video nowadays is very close and there is more separation still in the audio. Still, talking audio, when comparing you need to be level matched and iTunes needs to be bumped a good 6 dB or so relative to a disc to compare, which is a blind test that I think even a lot of folks might fail.
Certainly, if you want peace of mind for the highest quality experience, it remains disc or K download. We will see what happens next.
@@Techthusiasm na bro your just old and tryna stick to physical you hardly can tell the difference i do test on my friends all the time they cant tell for shit and i have a lg cx 55 inch btw
That “enormous difference” has been shown to be indistinguishable in blind hearing tests. So while the bit rate might be 5x higher you really can’t tell a difference.
@@lamakicker69As I responded to you before, you're misusing scientific language to confirm your bias. That blind testing is only relevant to that population and that setting. The results could be different day-to-day by variation of the millions of uncontrolled variables.
For movies I LOVE I get on 4k Blu-ray and redeem the digital version on iTunes. IMO video is pretty close when comparing iTunes vs 4k Blu-ray. More noticeable in dark scenes. Audio I can definitely tell a difference. I really believe Apple will be the first major player to offer lossless audio and guess what, it will be a free update on all your purchases just like they did with 4k HDR Dolby vision. All your purchased HD movies got upgraded to 4K FOR FREE. So yeah I believe eventually streaming might be right there with 4k Blu-ray. Not a doubt in my mind.
I'm in pretty strong agreement with everything you mention. :)
also future codecs both video and audio
with even higher bitrate
cause intenet bandwith will increase and they will eventually upgrade their current streaming content to higher bitrate av1 or h266 version
I know this wasn't really a topic of your video but one key reason why I'll always prefer physical media is availability. You just never know when these streaming services will go belly-up and/or remove content due to licensing and rights issues. I finally started watching Westworld late last year on HBO Max only to get to season 2 when they removed the show entirely from the service. Thankfully, WB released the series on 4K disc so I can count on having it available to me in the best quality possible going forward.
I'll do more on this, but be careful about mixing up streaming subscriptions and electronic sell-through with streaming delivery. It's not apples to apples to discuss collecting discs vs. subscribing to Netflix. You need to contrast collecting discs vs. buying movies on iTunes or Vudu for the concept of ownership to be the same. You have control and ownership in that regard. I agree, you have no control or ownership over whatever Netflix chooses to deliver.
@@Techthusiasm Good point. I've "purchased" plenty of titles to "own" on various digital platforms. But technically, you're only purchasing a license to have "access" to those titles. You don't really "own" it in the same way you would on physical media. And as I mentioned earlier, if one of the digital retailers you purchased from shuts down, you may not have access anymore. Like what happened with the movies and TV store on the Playstation platform that shut down in 2019. Users had a limited chance to transfer any titles they purchased from that service over to Vudu but if they missed the news or the emails they were out of luck.
Sony was a bad choice to build a digital library with, I think. I fully trust my content with the likes of Apple and a few others though.
@@Techthusiasm yeah Sony was a bad choice but they were also one of the first major players in the game with the PS3 in 2006 when the new frontier was forming.
Ultraviolet tried to make a digital locker across multiple platforms and failed. MoviesAnyWhere is probably going to suffer the same fate as some studios aren’t even supporting it.
Personally I use the services like MA for redeeming my codes so those titles are available across all the supporting platforms for convenience but the studios that don’t support it I find I go back and forth between iTunes and Vudu. Though at this point I question with Walmart selling off Vudu if it’s a good option anymore. I only use these services for convenience when traveling. At home it’s disc spinning time.
MA was looking awesome out of the gate, but it has really stagnated. I would fear for its future at this point. We'll see. I'm fine sticking to iTunes really so I don't even need MA. I'm better off buying from Apple directly for future free upgrades anyway vs. doing code ports into iTunes. Only if K joined MA would it perk me back up to the service.
Thanks for this. Good video. Is there a way to compare the video bitrates between UHD Blu-Ray and Kaliedescape since I know the lossless audio is the same?
I have a video on that topic comparing sizes between main movie disc rips and K downloads (which are main movie for 4K as well). ua-cam.com/video/SOsWJ1Fthfk/v-deo.html
Love this debate and thought process. I do think that the consistency of the stream is the main priority over quality for most streaming services. Color banding, black crushing, loss of audio is something that's going to go almost unnoticed by most users. Many have inexpensive sound bars and just use their TV speakers. We recently moved into a new home and that puts the NX9 on a shelf in storage until the Theater Room is finished. I bought an 85" QN900B and a complete Sonos Surround surround, dual subs, Arc and Ones. The whole house is powered by Sonos Amps and in ceiling so I thought why not. The Apple TV 4K does a great job with a setup like this no doubt. Video Quality is excellent and sound is pretty good for minimal cost. I'm going to hook up my Kaleidescape this weekend to it and see what differences there are. For the masses though streaming quality is pretty good right now and I don't believe it's going to catch Disk or K player anytime soon. It just doesn't have to.
My biggest problem with 4K streaming is, the initial video settings imposed on my LG B8 OLED (using the internal streaming app), with both Amazon & Vudu those settings differed and caused terrible picture quality. I'm not sure if LG, the provider or the studio is to blame. After making manual changes I got an acceptable picture. Luckily the TV remembers those changes, so you only have to do it once. In general, 4K streaming produces a picture quality that is about equal to the BEST 2K source. One exception being Carnival Row, that often demonstrated bright peak hi-lites that HDR is capable of. So why stream in 4K? Usually to get the latest well reviewed remaster of your favorite movie!
It's the provider. I don't use Amazon for video, but I've used Vudu a lot. I have found many Vudu movies where the encode just is not that good. UHD is alot better than HDX. But I think they just have a lot of older encodes with HDX, a lot are not from the best sources. Like Harry Potter there are a couple of movies where I see a lot of banding. The same movies in AppleTV app do not show this banding because the encode is better quality. Apple offers the best encodings imo and that's the one I use. If they're all bad, then the only way is to rip the Blu-ray and compress it yourself.
Do you think it will be a sub 5x gap when super uhd 8k discs are the standard? Do you think physical media will pull ahead in the future with the tech advances? Do you think Blu-ray disc is the last platform for physical media?
I would be inclined to think we won't see another disc or physical format. I think the future of content delivery is online. I do believe online delivery and streaming quality will match and eventually surpass 4K Blu-ray too.
If this were salary and someone made 3-5 times as much as me, I wouldn't exactly say we're close.
LOL, very true! But you’d be a lot closer than if they made 20x your salary. 😄
Thanks Jaremy, you put together some real good information. I agree with you Streaming is catching up to Disc real fast, especially if you have Fiber and Hardwired Ethernet!
Thanks!
Wow appreciate the effort you put into this video! I'm a purist through amd through, I own over 600 discs but I think streaming will get better, but I more collect the discs because I like having them on display. You analysis on the audio proves what I hear with my own ears, with dedicated powerful hone theatre audio system disc audio is so much better to the ear and the numbers prove it
Thanks! You are very welcome!
How do you figure out the megabit sound spec rate for streaming sources.?
I test them on my Apple TV using a special developer menu option.
@@Techthusiasm how can a mere mortal get access to this? Is it a real hassle to do all this I've got problems with my hands
I have a video for that. ua-cam.com/video/mIcJmPIInjQ/v-deo.html
My issue with streaming with video is the stutter in the picture that occurs at times during a movie. Audio wise I can hear a clear difference with discs over streaming. But I agree, it will improve.
Yea I have Google fiber and never get that. They downgrade the stream when your internet connection can't keep up so I suspect that's the main difference you see.
My service is pretty solid. I almost never have streaming reliability issues, thankfully. It's another story for sure to watching unreliable streams.
@@Techthusiasm I have 1 gig fiber, so it's not that. Some streams just dither and stutter.
@@erod9088 Not for me. Lots of them say they are 1GB fiber. They aren't all the same. It only takes 40mb/s to stream 4k. If you are getting stuttering then something is seriously wrong.
My man said stutter lol? Your internet must be horrible .. step it up buddy and connected it to the Ethernet .. i havent buffered since 2016 before i bought my ks9000 samsung tv
wait what??? How do you figure that 5x more bitrate is pretty close? How much did netflix/disney/apple pay you to make this video?
2nd comment like this. Apparently I didn't make the point clear enough. The differences not long ago were much larger, and some marketing would have you believe they are still like 20x. We are down to 3x/5x on video/audio. That's a considerable improvement. Streaming is catching up. 5x is a ton closer than 20x.
And no, no one paid me to highlight this, thanks. Please post more tactfully next time as I'm happy to discuss and debate.
Great comparison, thanks for the in depth testing and perspective! This really puts it into perspective. That said (and I did not watch the entire video yet - have to run soon): I am just curious, why you consider them to be closer than people think when there is a factor of 3x for video bitrate (60 Mbps for UHD Blu Ray video vs. 20 Mbps for streaming video) and 5x for audio bitrate (3.83 Mbps for UHD Blu Ray audio vs. 0.97 Mbps for streaming audio)? For audio, as you said, the streaming providers can (easily) tack on the extra 3 Mbps, But for video, streaming providers are 40 Mbps lower (20 Mbps vs 60 Mbps) and they do not want to increase by that much to avoid people with slower internet plans, weaker wifi signals (in some locations at home) or both (slower internet and weaker wifi running into buffering issues when streaming.
Either way, thanks for the testing of all those movies and showing the bitrates. Really informative and helpful.
Most people and a lot of marketing suggest that the difference is much farther than the reality is today. Plus, at these levels of different, I think most folks would fail to identify a stream vs. a disc or Kaleidescape in their system, unless those systems are very premium with large screens.
You should see the bitrates for some of the UHD “Toy Story” releases, especially for the audio. Casually sporting just well over 7000+ kbps. for the bragging rights or whatever.
For some reason, I tend to “trust” higher bitrates more than the low ones. I think the TrueHD track for “Kramer vs. Kramer” doesn’t even come close to 1500kbps. But it’s also 16 bits, so that explains things quite a bit.
Yeah, my sampling didn't show any that large, but looking at more afterward, I have found some that are that large in the rips.
The Sony Bravia TV app probably compares closer to physical media, don’t know if there’s a way to measure accurately but I know by viewing that format compared to the Apple TV apps there’s a big difference. Shame it’s only for Sony pictures though.
I'd love to play with the Bravia Core app. They are streaming video around 80 Mbps, but the audio was not increased unfortunately.
Any chart or info on how these rates have improved over time?
In general, Atmos streaming audio has been running at 770 Kbps tops for a bit now. For video, some movies have seen peaks creeping from mid-30 Mbps to low-40 Mbps. Averages still most often in the mid/upper-teens, although seeing more getting to the low/mid-20 range.
I don't know if the gross bit rate is a useful comparison among discs. All of the audio recordings you describe are processed as 24 bit depth/48 KHz sample rate. Not bad since it compares to the 16/44.1 spec of ordinary CDs. But however you measure it, the compresion is huge among streaming services. Conclusion: If you want the best sound, keep your discs!
I think this will all balance out someday (although we can end up with giant screens and 8k movies by then, who knows?). That being said, there’s something special about committing to a movie by physically placing it in a player. I find when I stream, it feels too easy to change my mind.
Yeah like if I dont like it right away, down goes the back button. Told my coworker the same thing... Once the disc us in, I'm committed. Plus there isn't decision paralysis with discs
Much appreciated. Good, objective info. As streaming services improve, I become less and less likely to pull the trigger on Kaleidescape. In the future, K will have minor advantages over streaming, but certainly less compelling. What can K do to keep from becoming even more niche? Will it die off?
This is the $10,000+ question. :) It's also the reason I look at my rack quite often and see the Apple TV and the K and wonder even now if I really "need" both. I find more and more it matters less to me and buying movies twice sucks. Certainly if iTunes boosts bit rates, the decision is clear for me with regards to what is staying.
I wish I could really tell the difference. We’ll say with streaming there’s always a chance things could dip in quality. Or as a dedicated display, the quality is pretty much consistent throughout the whole movie.
That’s weird while watching Dune on Kaleidescape which discs should be close to it, it’s showing 23.4 Mbps in audio bitrate via the Trinnov audio software page. Wish I could pin a SS here. Can’t tell on the video bitrate though.
Interesting... K shouldn't be different from the disc in audio, I would think. Video it can be.
I couldn't agree more that the streaming services could easily bring lossless. But even if they simply doubled the bitrate, it would probably be enough to make it indistinguishable from lossless in blind tests. DD+ can be encoded to 6mbps, so it can handle it.
I don't mind the digital stream with around 20mb/s , it looks good if not very good ,there is some black crush in some scenes but that's understandable, audio on the other hand is huge for me, many a times I'd play a film with compressed atmos and then on 4k disc when it's finally available and the atmos upgrade in most cases is very noticeable to my ears.
You do realize lossy compression is an art don’t you? Lossless Audio compression is intended to capture all the original bits in a smaller container. For example a quiet movie with less going on in the audio will definitely have a lower bitrate than a movie with a bombastic active soundtrack over the same runtime.
Video compression also depends highly on the size of the screen. A high bitrate disc may not look much different than a lower bitrate on a 65-inch set from 10-ft but put them up on 120-in or larger screen it will become obvious. Just because streaming companies label the containers as 4K doesn’t mean they are actually encoding at 4K especially in scenes with a lot of movement. Streaming is also highly dependent on the quality of the connection. I’ve got 1G up/down with fiber to my home and even with that I’m still highly reliant on the quality of the connection with the server. I’ve seen live tv and movies drop and jump in quality all the time at peak viewing hours. Disc never does that for film content.
Another possibility for the wide margin of audio bitrates could be that 16-bit audio is in being put in a 24-bit container. I know this happened with the special edition of Casino Royale where the extra bits were 0-filled. Bad practice but it kind of shows that 16-bit@48kHz is good enough for lossless.
You also failed to factor the collector into the equation. Some of us of want the physical disc. When streaming was new we were promised that all of our favorites would be in one location at our fingertips whenever we wanted. That’s obviously never going to happen. It’s an extremely fragmented market and even services like HBO Max that have a many of the WB movies don’t offer the 4K versions of catalog titles that have been released on disc. Sure the newer stuff is there but catalog is nonexistent on many of the services in 4K.
I find many of the streaming services to basically be a lot of C and D list titles.
"You do realize lossy compression is an art don’t you?" Yes, for sure. But the more bit rate applied in the process, the less of an art it needs to be.
"Video compression also depends highly on the size of the screen." For sure. The bigger the screen, the easier it is to resolve quality. You are bringing in details about the logistics difference of streaming vs. disc. That's a different topic than this which was meant to be more purely technical. I have 1G service too and my streams across the services I use are pretty rock solid.
"You also failed to factor the collector into the equation." I was focused more on just technical measurements here. I didn't talk any logistics. There's a lot more that goes into that discussion, but it's something I could do in the future.
"I find many of the streaming services to basically be a lot of C and D list titles." One thing to keep in mind that I'm talking about streaming here as a delivery mechanism, not in reference to streaming services. The bit rate comparisons I'm using are primarily related to purchased content in iTunes. There is no lack of titles that are streamable when purchased from a provider like Apple. That's another concept, actually, that I want to make a video about eventually as there are big distinctions about what it means to "own" something and a lot of that discussion gets mixed up.
Brilliant vlog bro! I've been buying my films from iTunes since 2020 and the whole experience is simply incredible!
Until Apple loses its licensing rights
Thanks! The variety in the comments here is really something. :)
I have 1,500 movies or so in my iTunes library built up over many years. To my knowledge, I've lost one title, which I had to rebuy when it was removed in HD and re-added in 4K. I have like 1,300 movies with Kaleidescape as well and only had a loss happen once there. Interestingly, it happened on the same film.
@@Techthusiasm What movie was this? I am curious...
1980's Transformers the Movie from Shout Factory. The HD version got delisted and despite owning, it was removed from both of digital libraries on K and on iTunes. Then the 4K version was posted. I just bought it again on each.
I buy the BLU-RAY+DIGITAL copies. I like having the disc on my home theater system at home. The picture is better, but I also notice the audio is mastered better. But I do love the convenience of having all my digital copies through Vudu/Apple. When I went out on the road for work, it was nice being able to pack my Firestick and plugging into the hotel TV to watch a couple movies when I wasn't busy doing other things. I wouldn't go digital-only simply for the mere fact that everything in the cloud is vaporware. You have no rights, no control over it and when they decide to change things or remove it all together, you won't get your money back. That said, discs can go bad too. I have had a couple of BD-Rs go bad over the past couple years. Pressed discs I have had a couple that didn't work when I got them, and exchanged them and the new copy worked.
Thank you for putting in the work for this comparison! If one of the platforms stream lossless audio, I will stop buying 4k disc or sure.
You and me both. It will be all over, and I'll be only iTunes 100% on Apple TV.
That why Best Buy is stop selling blue ray disk at the end of 2023.
Good analysis. But if you have a high endbaudio system with top receiver & speakers then the 4k disc wi be superior. As for everyone else, average movie viewer won't notice the differences and lilely careless.
As for me, I enjoy both and has a decent collection of 4k disc. For some of the older movies that doesn"t have 4k streaming version, the disc is much superior even just the regular bluray. For newer movies, the 4k streaming is pretty damn good. I have Sony Oled TV and the Bravia Core streaming quality is as good as the disc. Up to 80Mps bitrate, but only for the video though. Audio same still not lossless.
The better your system, the more value of higher fidelity content makes sense. I hope Bravia Core expands and kicks Apple and Vudu in the pants to create competition. It was a miss though that Bravia Core didn't up the audio bit rate.
The bitrate could be great. That doesnt mean all of those pixels will perfectly transfer to your phone or TV. Ive seen steaming 4K movies get completely distorted and it wouldnt go away
Very nice video but I wish someone would focus on the sound quality exclusively. This is the area that's been so constrained on streaming side. Would be nice to hear and analysis focusing on the various streaming sources versus a disk sitting inside a Blu-ray player. And the focus should be on people with good home theater systems. I get frustrated because the quality on the sound side doesn't seem to be very good for many movies were it should clearly be a lot better. It's hard to discern differences because it's very impractical to buy all these discs and most of the things you watch these days are streamed from Netflix and there aren't discs available for this stuff but they do offer a premium subscription which I think offers more capacity for the streaming details. Maybe focus on the future outlook for streaming audio quality. Great job
I bet most folks fail a blind A/B test even in audio between a good 770 Kbps Atmos stream and a disc if it were truly blind and the audio was volume level matched.
If this is the case, what’s the benefit of Kaleidescape?
Despite the gap to streaming closing, it still remains large enough to justify higher quality content sources. We will see how that continues to evolve though.
I don't think we'll ever get the quality out of streaming that matches blu ray uhd bit rates. Streaming companies have to build network peering connections to last mile providers which costs the streaming services a lot money. Additionally during peak hours we're all competing for same bandwidth to stream high quality video. I started building a digital video collection on google over covid, at first i was happy with the convenience of it but now I'm frustrated with the quality (gig fiber internet) and looking to switch back to physical media.
The other aspects to consider are infrastructure, in many countries outside of cities it is still impossible or too expensive to stream at 4K Blu-ray quality. Add to that the majority do not own equipment that will show enough difference to justify the cost.
The other major issue is if the big streaming companies increase their bitrate 3-5x their data costs will rocket. Take those two aspects together and I dont see 4K bluray being superceded until 2040+. Besides which I don't trust the streaming companies to "buy" films from them. You never own them you just licence them. Ultraviolet was a good example of not guaranteeing a service will last
but if audio is lossless
then does bit rate really matter
Streaming isn't lossless though. So the comparison is interesting to see how far streaming audio is from being lossless level.
@@Techthusiasm I'd also be really surprised if anyone could tell a difference between Dolby Digital/DD+ at 640kbps and DTS-HD MA/Dolby TrueHD/PCM that you would get on a disc, in a volume-compensated blind test. Back when DVDs were around, DTS was considered superior because their tracks were usually mastered louder and given more bitrate. But with Blu-ray, I don't think I've ever been able to tell.
From what i saw in general and this was validated by HDTV test. Video quality is almost on par except for very dark scene where bandind is a big issue for streaming, but in general i wouldnt have an issue with the video quality from streaming high quality like apple itunes for movies. However audio quality really suffer and im no expert but i can really hear the difference from the disc versus the streaming. Often the dynamics are loss and overall experience take a huge it for me. When you got a capable system it really show. That why so far im staying with physical for now.
I agree in general. One thing to keep in mind though is streaming audio is a little quieter. So to really compare, you really need to turn up the volume a little bit on the stream. I think some of the reduced dynamics folk mention in the difference boils down to volume differences, at least partially.
Appreciate you bitrate comparison but it would also be the most helpful to compare per your own eyes and personal viewing the strengths and weaknesses of streaming vs disc. Spewing numbers doesn't help at all. The numbers will always be better bitrate wise on disc but I know per my personal viewing the quality is not 3 to 5 times better on disc. Just a tip
Great video and analysis. I myself have done an informal comparison of streaming vs movies I own on 4K UHD blu-ray. Some of the Blu-rays have digital copy via iTunes. What I have come to conclude for myself is that if you have a fast enough, high bandwidth internet connection the difference between streaming and physical media is practically non existent. I say practically by which I mean as long as you are watching the movie and not analyzing the gradient or background of the movie frame by frame, the difference are not easy to spot. Also as long as you equalize the audio volume (some of my discs have louder volumes than the streaming version), sound quality is also very good. Streaming is so much more convenient... With my 4K UHD blu-ray discs I have to wipe down every new blu-ray or risk the residue causing blockiness or freezing of the video for example. No such worries with streaming. Also streaming can be played on my phone, tablet, laptop and on my Home Theater setup. This in my opinion is the reason more and more people are giving up buying physical media. I do have blu-days (and DVDs) of old or (niche movies) that cannot be found on streaming so there is that.
I agree 100% with what you're saying. Folks sometimes run down streaming without giving it full due. It is very good quality now and getting better plus a plethora of pros and conveniences. I bet most people would fail blind and level-matched A/B tests between a good stream and disc/K.
Any advice about how to get the best quality out of my set up?(besides having the best quality smart tv I can afford,having it hardwired to Ethernet, and using an HDMI 2.1 cable??
Furthermore, I also believe there is going to be a significant difference if you have a wired connection versus a wireless connection to your television or your set top box or your gaming station.
Wired vs. wireless is more about stability, but unstable wireless can certainly interrupt quality.
5 x the audio bitrate is significant.
Yep, it's still a solid gap, but a lot less than 20x.
Although I still prefer physical media (for both music and movies) the truth is that because of the convenience factor, I end up utilizing the latter SO much more and its not even close. I still hang on to my dvd, blu ray, 4k, cd collection and every now and then when I get a moment to breathe (4 kids and a wife) I sit in my home theater to enjoy a movie on disc. When it comes to cd's, my vehicle is where I normally listen to those (thank goodness I still have a cd player in it! Lol)
Nice!
I still think the conversation for many when it comes to those of us who love physical media. We own the movies we love. When a streaming service decides they no longer want to offer your movie we still have the movie. Already has happened. Poor users found out the EULA for the movie you bought was simply access to it and the movie could be removed from the library if the company decided to go that direction. If there are titles you really do love I would suggest owning them. However, you want to watch them to me is secondary to knowing you have access to them.
I own a massive amount of digital content across a lot of stores and have lost next to nothing. The idea of ownership is something I plan to talk about more coming up.
@@Techthusiasm Yes so far it is rare but when it happens and we have no recourse I will be happy to own the items I want
@Mike P 100%
In rural areas like alaska. You are lucky to get 720p consistently.
Should include aome rescanned classics as well. I have seen some at 90mbps
Why does it say stream above where it says bluray? It can't be a bluray and stream at the same time
I don't understand your question, sorry. No where am I saying that disc and stream are the "same".
Movies are made to watch on disc, it's better and more reliable then streaming.💯
The limitation and streaming will always be the Internet service provider in your bandwidth. Streaming has improved a picture quality. I still prefer the disk soundtrack over the streaming soundtrack, especially with Apple movies.
Interested to hear your opinion of movie streaming on different servers and such as Netflix versus Amazon prime versus Apple TV and the quality of the sound. I think the picture is going to be quite similar.
Now that we have 1 Gbps and better internet service, we have all the speed we need to stream higher quality and lossless audio. The content platform providers just need to embrace those speeds and provide the service.
@Techthusiasm True, and it should improve. Yet most households do not purchase 1 gb. I doubt most households have an extensive setup to maximize the decoding of a sound track. Modern Televisons can overcome pictures. In my opinion, which is limited to myself, the sound enhances the picture, especially with the placement of sound in space.
Then there is amplifiers, speaker placement , subwoofer,room calibration, etc.
It adds up
Also a horrible addiction
I think your topic is awesome and a question we should ask ourselves. It most likely will. Hange with time. Currently, depending on your setup physical media has the capability of providing an enhanced detailedi mmersive sound than streaming. If you do not have all the equipment, I definitely would stream
Well, for movies, it´s "acceptable", but for music shows, especially classical concerts , I´m sorry, but in my opinion, I prefere Hi-Res Audio in DTS-HD is the best option.
That might be fine for those in major cities with the bandwidth due to high speed internet but those in true rural areas are struggling to get HD video streaming without being choppy and other issues. Sure I will give you streaming has made alot of improvement but it is not yet caught up with what is on the disc. And yes we have a great alternative to disc with Kaleidescape but look how much the equipment costs. And for many consumers they do not even care if streaming is even close to a disc they only care that they can see the movie. And also we did not get the actual bitrates to do real comparisons along with the source of the content like Disney+ or iTunes or Amazon. I do not see how you can go into detail for the disc but then boil it down to averages for digital content and act like this is all valid that streaming is close to disc. For disc content I use a Panasonic DP-UB9000 4K UHD Blu-ray Player and for streaming I use a 4K Apple TV 64GB for streaming off of iTunes, Disney+, Paramount +, Amazon, Netflix.
I baselined the streaming because I have a long history on the channel of seeing and showing streaming bit rate technical details. I know where the highest quality streams come from and what their rates are. Check out videos like this one. ua-cam.com/video/0jk3b-yE_80/v-deo.html
Streaming is just much more convenient. The only reason I still use physical media is b/c plex has a shuffle feature. I love having my movies/tv shows playing in random order. And for some weird reason, none of the streaming platforms (ie vudu, itunes, amazon, etc.) have that feature. Its mind blowing how none of the digital platforms have such a simple feature. If they did, I would switch to digital in a heart beat.
I agree. The streaming platforms, like Apple and Vudu, that let us have digital libraries need to get on the ball with interesting library management and playback features. They should make our digital collections feel like physical ones that we can organize and manipulate more.
I always thought the audio and video quality on Disney+ were pretty good (and, for the most part, they are). But when I bought The Mandalorian on 4K blu ray it absolutely rocked my sh*t!
Nice!
This isn't placebo. I can tell the difference visually between most "4K" streamed content on your main services like Netflix, Amazon and Disney. Most of the time, their "4K" streams look about as good as a native 1080p Blu-ray, but with HDR on top of it. This isn't hyperbole, that's what they look like. The difference between their streamed "4K" and a UHD might not be "night and day", but it's quite obvious, especially on a 77'' or larger TV.
Having said that, I don't actually mind as long as there's not a bunch of macroblocking or other streaming artifacts. However, it will still not be as good as UHD for one big reason: the audio. It's absolutely a night and day difference when using critical listening devices. The audio is so bad that I won't stream Atmos outside of a select few shows.
If you are using speakers, you won't notice this quite as much, but I have a Realiser A16, which allows you to get as close "to the real thing" as possible by playing Atmos over headphones. Won't go into the specifics on how it works, but it's not like most other pre-baked algorithm solutions and requires you putting mics in your ears and real speakers to actually set up correctly.
The the difference you can hear with the Atmos you get from streaming is about as bad as going from FLAC to 96kbps MP3s for music.
For video quality, I've found that (at least on my 77'') around the 10Mbps mark is *good enough for most 1080p content (rips or streaming), but at least 15Mbps is preferable if you want to avoid any obvious compression artifacts during low level light, or heavily shadowed scenes. Closer to native the better, but these are just the bitrates I've found that won't be distracting and if you're watching a film or series that is mostly "well lit" without many scenes of darkness, then it will appear even better.
edit: It's funny seeing John Wick as having the highest audio bit rate of the UHDs in this video, because the Club Scene is one of my demo scenes for audio.
Also, streaming compression and disc compression bit rates are not 1:1, so this is a somewhat flawed comparison. Plus, older 1080p titles are absolutely not averaging "20Mbps". Not even close.
Lastly, streaming audio is an afterthought mainly because while most people have a TV, not everyone has a home theater setup, or even a sound bar. It makes sense to push video quality, but it's not really a priority on the audio side when a good portion of their subscribers won't even be taking advantage of it. Even if we were to reach the point of lossless audio through streaming, you're still stuck with the fact that it's still streaming and a subscription. Either they remove the content, or you stop paying and you lose access to that content. For movies you'll want to watch again later, you still can't beat physical/rips.
now that at&t is doing fiber 5000 plans i think we will be able to start getting truely lossless stuff. And honestly, the only difference i can tell myself is in the contrast with image. Audio wise, while there is a discrepancy in the numbers, by ear....ehhh i cant really tell much. And i have super high end speakers
Just need some super high end ears now 😂 The audio is the most obvious difference.
Most of thepeople who complaint about this stuff only have a 100k worth of speaker setup.
The discs are multiple factors better than streaming, and your overall conclusion is they're "pretty close" to each other? I'm not following the logic.
Various marketing and pundits would still have you believe the differences are 10 - 20x. That's my point. It's a lot closer than given credit for and the gap continues to close.
Disc/K still remains better for sure, but 3x and 5x are slim factors now compared to not long ago. In a lot of cases and systems, I bet many folks can't even discern those differences as well. Especially with regards to video or if in a true blind test of level-matched audio.
Yes,the streaming audio/video quality is closing the gap on the disc but I still rather have a hard copy and I don’t have a problem storing them either. I still have,at least,a thousand movies on VHS in my basement from the old days. I'm from the old school where there wasn't such a thing as streaming. Either you bought the tape/disc or you see it at the Theater. I'm still use to buying disc and it's a nostalgic factor for me. My late Wife and I spent many,many weekends at video stores buying Movies & Music. So even if streaming becomes equal to the disc in video/audio quality I'll still buy the 4k disc. I have an Oppo 203 and playing a 4k disc is probably the best you can get pertaining to video/audio quality if you don't have a Kaleidescape.
@@JLRJI agree for my collection streaming will never be good enough.
What about internet speed availability?
How do you mean? You definitely want fast/reliable internet to rely on streaming. I have that, thankfully.
I was thinking that getting the best quality stream was dependent on internet speed. Many internet providers throttle down speed at certain times, and then others may have limits. As a consequence, streaming quality will suffer. I wonder if it's just best to get the a 4k player and a hard disc rather than paying the up charge to get the kind of speed to even come close to the quality afforded by a hard disk.
I have 1 Gbps service that is very reliable, thankfully. I never have streaming quality troubles. For those that do though, it is a frustration, I'm sure.
I've always noticed that despicable me n minion movies always look so sharp compared to other animated movies
Physical disc is the best.Streaming and download suck if someone wants to experience true Dolby Atmos.
I disagree that it "sucks". The difference is still there such that disc and download is still the best, yes, but the gap is closing.
I disagree. Most people don't have the time to build a huge cinema system or have other hobbies OR as in the majority of the world live in apartments with neighbours. A lot of young experience Dolby Atmos streaming on a MacBook Pro or by wearing AirPods Pro / Max whilst travelling and they experience is really beautiful!
@@BarcelonasHotCrowd They have nothing to compare it to so yeah some overpriced apple earphones will sound "great."
A benefit of digital/streaming is that option for portability. But of course, you generally get that physical media as well since you get the codes.
I'm traveling soon and I might go ahead and download Andor to watch. Sure it'll be better in my theater, but in this case, I'm cool just watching the show when it is convenient.
Blind hearing tests have shown that people cannot tell distinguish between physical Atmos or streaming Atmos.
Apple TV and my new Verizon Fios looking pretty damn good. Disk is really superior, streaming only looks ok when you’re streaming 4k from most of these sites.
It all depends on the compression. You could easily compress audio 5x with no loss of quality. What you would need to do is uncompress both and then analyze them together. I really doubt there is much difference if any.
Audio on bluray disc is so much puncher and louder than in streaming. Dynamic range is ripping your roof off.
The problem with streaming is how weak the lossy compressed audio is. This is also noticed easily when streaming Dolby Atmos music. The is no need to compress given the extra bandwidth for lossless is not much but this is how it is. The problem is a lot of hardware right now, like the current Apple TV 4K only have output for Dolby Digital + which has a max bitrate of 768 kb/s. Poor.
Audio is a bigger difference than video still, yes.
Yes it is, I bought a 4K version of Avengers End Game with Fandango. I watched it for a bit and notice something looks very off. There were color banding, artifacts, things were a bit soft, the color of The Hulk is yellow green not dark green. So I then downloaded a 1080p Blu-ray version and holy shit it was completely better. In short 4K streaming is dog shit.
That wasn't my impression. The colors looked fine on my 4K stream of that movie. And it's a digitally shot/mastered movie anyway so it shouldn't need a lot of bitrate to look transparent to the Blu-ray. I almost wonder if it's just the encoding settings some of these streaming companies are using that alters the colors a bit. I noticed this with 1080p streams back in the day too, like where iTunes usually had the same colors as a Blu-ray, but then Vudu or Amazon could be slightly different.
Thanks.
You're welcome
The surround sound definitely sounds better on disc version vs streaming.
Always the final judge.
Oh I’m amazed at how the differences between the two have become so negligible! I love my physical media, but I have to admit when comparing similar video, the differences are minimal. That said, I have many Blu-ray’s that aren’t available through streaming, at least not with the proper video & audio codecs, so I still love having my physical media.
Also, my OCD likes having lossless uncompressed audio, even if I can’t actually hear the difference! Haha placebo effect .
Great breakdown though!
Thanks!
Not exactly negligible. There are different things to consider especially scans of film vs 4k upscales of digital movies with a lot cgi
I started to invest in 4k movies that I like. At least they are mine and I can watch them whenever I want, also they look fantastic and sound is superb 👌🏻
I just don't think the market is ready for 4KBD yet. The players are still expensive, I have had quite a few discs that didn't work on any player. They need to either fix the firmware on these players or up their game with quality control. Blu-ray had these issues at first too, but we are 8 years after the introduction of 4KBD and we still have issues with defective discs.
One thing to consider is if what you want will always be streaming. We're as a society already close to burning books in the streets. Everyone hates the other team no matter. I think i just reasoned myself into more physical media 😂
I went out today and got a 4k Blu-ray player. I've been on the fence for years because of how much they cost plus already owning series x and ps5 (the audio and Dolby vision issues with those are annoying or unsupported and they didn't seem to play discs as smooth).
I already had the OLED and dtsx Atmos sound bar. It was like 450$ just for the player. But man I have to say, it was glorious watching my first movie on it! The sound wasnt just loud, it engulfed the room. The sub shook the frame hanging on the wall and I liked it. Streaming movies on my apple tv 4k looked good and sounded good, but damn I was underutilizing my equipment.
Excellent!
Good video. Streaming is definitely getting better. Do you have a P.O. Box to receive stuff?
Thanks! I didn't expect quite the polarized response the video is generating. It's quite interesting.
I don't have a PO. That's the first time anyone has asked, actually. You can message me at techthusiasm_jp@outlook.com and let me know what you'd need one for.
@@Techthusiasm email sent
I do it all and appreciate it all for different reasons. There are always trade offs.
Another disadvantage of streaming. Not seeing the film the director intended. Prime example is the dark knight
On disc, you see the changing aspect ratios when it was shot in imax. On streaming they keep the same aspect ratio throughout
Changing aspect ratios are hit or miss depending on the platform, but disc usually seems to have them most often. I don't consider them a major positive though since I'd prefer my content just to be in scope for movies in my theater.
Blu ray is much better. I have been buying and streaming movies on Apple for a long time. I recently decided to put a blu ray on and I was blown away on both audio and video. There is no comparison at least for now.
I personally am at the cusp of going from physical media to digital. I don't think we'll need digital bitrates to equal that of physical in order to see the switch. The convenience of digital alone may soon out way the limitation we now see with physical discs / players. Digital prices are often better , some movies (Gravity) are offered in atmos on digital while still not being available on physical , free upgrades on I Tunes . I fear the end is near .....
Atmos through DD+ not TrueHD. I don't trust any company with digital downloads.
@Chris L yep I agree. Once we close enough, other pros start to take over really strongly, and to me, we are pretty close as is now.
@mi z a lot of folks still don't trust digital ownership. I do. Very much so, but it has cons for sure. I'll talk about this more coming up.
@@miz4535 thats cause you havent compared them cause you dont have the tv to do so or the internet speed i can tell by your answer .. and the only folks who talk physical media are mostly above 30 years old … let that sink in
@@fabolousjada5070 What does that mean? Why do I need a good TV to test out Dolby Digital? Some Blu rays have them as well like Game of Thrones so I can compare to TrueHD there. DD+ is not bad but there is a difference to TrueHD.
Why all of the excessive detail on 17+ physical media rips only to gloss over the streaming side, offering no direct 1:1 comparisons? Where did you get your data on streaming bit rates?
I covered the streaming side. We know streaming bit rates, on average, because I measure them here on the channel using Apple TV developer tools. Streaming Atmos clocks in at 770 Kbps best case and streaming video usually averages out around 20 Mbps or less on average.
And your point is?
There is a large difference between these figures.
Is it just me?
The difference is far smaller than it used to be and steadily decreasing as well as being far less evident in actual playback than the numbers still suggest.
Special features.
How so?
I love disc
Sweet, me too!
There are more pros to physical disc than cons. Regardless of streaming data rate.
I could say the same of streaming too, which has a number of pros that physical doesn't have aside from quality even if it were better. Each has their own benefits and drawbacks.
You want some higher audio bitrate 4k examples? Pitch Perfect movies, Little Mermaid, and Moana. The audio on 4Ks is these do hit over anywhere from 8-10Mbps during moments with a lot of sound.
Nice! I picked all these examples at complete random looking through my server, trying to find a mix of premium content across a variety of studios. I'm surprised that over this large of a data set that I didn't see an audio track up in that range. I do have both Little Mermaid and Moana on my server, and yep, those titles clock in just above and below 8 Mbps in the audio.
I think there's an important point though in encoding lossless audio. That being the bit rate should only need to be what it needs to be in order to retain the lossless quality. Anything more should be wasted. So the resulting bit rate, I expect, would be a factor of just what is needed for a specific soundtrack, perhaps based on its content or complexity.
I'd love to have a mastering engineer or someone like that on the channel and really talk through the technicals of this stuff.
Also, E.T. sounds very HQ and is 5.9 Mbps avg. I can't think of any higher bitrate action movies though, lol.
Invisible Man 2020 sounded awesome and got by with under 4Mbps avg. Newer movies with better mic tech means less hiss taking up space for one.
What puzzles me is why all lossless audio tracks take up several Mbps during quiet moments with low to no bg noise. From an IT view point, you'd think that's perfect time to save space, even if using lossless compression.
Streaming kills my data cap so I'm never going to touch it. Quality is irrelevant to me if a couple films removes my months worth of internet. I pay for any data after my cap by a lot and the buffering is constant so screw streaming anything
You need good internet service for sure to benefit from streaming.
If you really want to find out how good something is disc or digital media the best way in my opinion is using a projector! You want to compare Disney + to Kaleidescape or compair Max to Apple TV sure you can do it on a 55" - 75" display but nothing shows limitations like a projector with a large screen size! The smaller the screen the better then content seems to look! You are also comparing raw data and not even considering the size a performance level of the display or even how disc vs streaming using a projector and large screen. And what about the quality many people get because they are only using cheap USB sticks? Your not getting top bitrates with a wireless USB stick.
Because this is an objective comparison of technical quality, not fluffy talk. The quality difference nowadays is far less than people believe or claim. Many of those folks would fail blind A/B tests, I'm sure of it.
The only thing that this video misses is the subjective comparisons. Tech specs only do so much. The only downside is that the subjectiveness will inherently be different for everyone with wide margins.
Your latter sentence is exactly the reason I focus on the objective for this comparison and in my other one comparing disc to Kaleidescape. The numbers can't lie and are a representation of quality potential.
@@Techthusiasm . I agree. The issue is what's the observable difference at some point there's has to be a crossover when potential exceeds what can be experienced.
The number only tell part of the story. You still have to see/hear it.
I can't tell the difference between streaming and bluray and 4k quality
Stick with streaming and keep it easy! :)
To be fair you need a decent OLED and a good sound system to really see/hear the difference. Using an average LCD TV and TV speakers the difference will be much smaller.
Truthfully I can’t really tell, video wise, the difference barely at all anymore between them anymore. The audio is the big reason I still like to buy discs. I can still hear a difference. I also assume we are in the last couple of years of any difference at all anymore. Lossless audio has to be right around the corner.
It's getting closer, for sure. I find streaming audio to run a little quieter. It needs a volume boost to level match against a disc. I think the difference folks mention in audio can sometimes be attributed just to volume levels. But for sure, the difference in audio is more than video nowadays.
What's the incentive for studios to provide lossless audio when the vast majority don't care?
@@miz4535 I would just assume for competition reasons. It would be great to advertise lossless audio and 4K picture if you where iTunes or Netflix.
It's a differentiator. If they didn't see value in it, Apple wouldn't have totally turned Apple Music over for high fidelity/bit rate audio. Nor would they have done the multiple generations of quality improvements we've already seen from 720p to 1080p and now 4K bit rates.
@@Techthusiasm Very true. If anything, I feel that they'll only make lossless available for the Apple TV 4K and leave DD+ Atmos for Mac and iPhone / iPad. Apple seems to do things very well - let's see :) :) :)
I refuse to buy streaming services, quite a few decent movies I have not seen yet as I am waiting for it on Blu-ray.
Streaming is not god on a god surround receiver
The biteeate is so much better as the sound om streaming
is closer to rhe real cinema experience when you got a real raw sounds from 4k disc 🎉😊
You should just rate the visuals. People are not watching bitrates
Visuals are specific to a given piece of content though. The goal of the video was to classify the trend, and I think the data serves better for that. Bit rate equals effective quality.
Streaming houses know ppl turn it on and watch so they do care. Ppl have no idea what they're missing by excepting bs streaming quality. Why can't Sony Bravia Service and even apple(TV) + be the minimum experience in streaming it's a travesty from an enthusiast POV
Blue Ray Disc is potentially a loss cause, sound is intermittent on one in ten disc , it’s a completely corrupt . And is crap my opinion but believable. Crap I Say.
Time for a Kaleidescape. :)
I've run into quite a few bad pressings in my time and although all the discs were replaced with a working copy, it was a pain to ship it back and wait some more. These days I just use iTunes and it's good enough.
blu ray is so much better
Your video doesn’t make sense you don’t specify if it’s streaming or the physical desk
All the data for the content shown are the bit rates of the main movie video/audio of the MKV ripped from the disc and then compared to an established baseline of streaming bit rates. I believe I used 20 Mbps for video and 770 Kbps for Atmos audio as the streaming baseline, which I have shown in a variety of other content on the channel.
Too many numbers😢
Disc or Kaleidescape is still better than streaming, but not by nearly as much of a margin as in the recent past. :) Done.
I thought this was a good video....I have lots of Plex 'Linux ISOs', and also have some 4K movies I purchased on iTunes. They both look and sound pretty darn good to me.
I think you have upset some of the physical collectors, there is a definitely group who don't like the idea that streaming can come near competing with what they spent so much to acquire!
Thanks! Yeah, I guess I ruffled some feathers. That's OK. I wasn't putting down disc in any way. Both options can be very good and have their own unique pros and cons.
3x audio and 5X video difference in bitrate is HUGE. This is terrible distortion of basic compression facts. Wow. Obviously, this person has never compressed video for a living.
No need to be rude. You are missing the point of the video though and making a different kind of statement. The point is not that there isn't a difference. The point is that the difference is much smaller than in the past and smaller than much marketing and physical media pundits continue to claim. I bet I could have you in my theater for a blind, level-matched A/B comparison, and that you could not significantly statistically identify a good stream from a disc.
Blu ray is better i will never get rid of my collection 📀
At least with disc I don't have to worry about waken up in the morning and my movie is gone unlike streaming. Nuff said.
Some folks like that reliability. I feel confident in my digital purchases. Never reply on content staying on streaming subscription services though, like Netflix or whatever.
This video sucks. Throwing around numbers about bitrates does very little to compare or relate to the viewer experience. Bitrate isn't everything, and there is a point of diminished returns. At what bitrate can you perceive a loss in quality?
"There is a point of diminished returns..." Wouldn't that be a reason why the video, in fact, doesn't "suck". We are getting closer to reaching that point as the numbers get closer. In terms of how this relates to viewer experience, I would contend that, as it is now, quite a few folks would fail real blind A/B comparison tests properly conducted comparing these two sources for quality.
You can post a reply and engage in debate far more tactfully as well.
Dvds & blurays 👍🏼 💯
For the best quality still, yep, stick to discs and downloads. But streaming is getting quite good. This could be a close race faster than we all might think.